Forgiveness without repentence?

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Forgiveness without repentence?

Postby Abiding in His Word on Thu Jan 24, 2013 8:57 pm

Luke 23:34 But Jesus was saying, "Father, forgive them; for they do not know what they are doing."

Jesus was asking for forgiveness of His murderers. Were they forgiven without repenting?
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Re: Forgiveness without repentence?

Postby slick on Fri Jan 25, 2013 4:13 am

Hello Abiding,
Interesting...I never really considered what JESUS was actually saying in this passage.I always considered it more of a figure of speech. However I dont think its as simple as that now looking at the passage closely. One thing Though, WHO is JESUS speaking of? I really am not able to tell. If its The JEWS in General then perhaps it is a call for their future redemption. If It is The thieves hanging with Him, well we know That one of them does repent. if its the actual people who put Him on the Cross...

I do believe that true repentance only need occur once, and that once you are sealed by the spirit the future penalty for sin is erased.That is not to say that we have license to live in sin.

Lets see what others think,
GOD-BLESS,
THE BATTLE RAGES TIL THE LION SOON ROARS! :armor:

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Re: Forgiveness without repentence?

Postby mark s on Fri Jan 25, 2013 8:39 am

Hi Abiding,

I think that God has forgiven sins through Jesus Christ, but to receive that forgiveness, we must repent.

Love in Christ,
Mark
ειπεν αυτη ο ιησους εγω ειμι η αναστασις και η ζωη ο πιστευων εις εμε καν αποθανη ζησεται
. . . saying to her Jesus, I AM the resurrection and the life, the one believing into Me even dying shall live . . .
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Re: Forgiveness without repentence?

Postby Jericho on Fri Jan 25, 2013 8:52 am

I don't know the answer, but Stephan also asked the Lord not to charge those who stoned him of there sins (Act 7:60).
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Re: Forgiveness without repentence?

Postby Tevye on Fri Jan 25, 2013 8:54 am

It's only a movie, but consider ... The Robe.
The Roman officer who won Christ's robe and his path after...
It's not an actual account, but could some of his experiences
been what it might have been like on his road to forgiveness?
(for one of the real men who crucified Christ)

I imagine for one to be forgiven, one must be willing to receive it.
Can the desire to be forgiven come any other way than through
a humble heart that has followed the path of repentance?

If a person is not willing to be humble, sorrowful for sin
for their trespass against another, they have a hard heart.

Christ asked for their forgiveness, yet He knew
unless they would repent, turn from their sin
that there would be no atonement from the sacrifice.
They would have no room in their hearts for a loving God
to dwell and they would not be able to honestly accept the
value of the sacrifice Christ made for their being forgiven.

There is a path that leads to righteousness and few find it.

"small is the gate and narrow the road that
leads to life, and only a few find it."

“Enter through the narrow gate....
...for wide is the gate and broad is the road
that leads to destruction, and many enter through it."

Christ said...before he was crucified...
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’
will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he
who does the will of my Father who is in heaven."

...and what is the Father's will?

“Ask and it will be given to you."

"how much more will your Father in heaven
give good gifts to those who ask him!"

He will give...the good gift of being forgiven.

---

Caeser: "You put him to death?"
Then why are you risking your life for him?"

Tribune: "I owe Him more than my life"
"He forgave me my crime against him."

"The Robe" -1953 - ((((movielink))))
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Re: Forgiveness without repentence?

Postby Abiding in His Word on Fri Jan 25, 2013 11:08 am

It's only a movie, but consider ... The Robe.
The Roman officer who won Christ's robe and his path after...
It's not an actual account, but could some of his experiences
been what it might have been like on his road to forgiveness?
(for one of the real men who crucified Christ)


Loved that movie, Tevye.

Scripture does mention one Roman centurion:

When the centurion, who was standing right in front of Him, saw the way He breathed His last, he said, "Truly this man was the Son of God!" Mark 15:39

This was a spiritual revelation wasn't it? I think we all agree there is no exact way to become born again of the spirit, so isn't it possible that this centurion became saved at that moment?
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Re: Forgiveness without repentence?

Postby Abiding in His Word on Fri Jan 25, 2013 11:15 am

Jericho wrote:I don't know the answer, but Stephan also asked the Lord not to charge those who stoned him of there sins (Act 7:60).


Good point, Jericho. I had forgotten about Stephen. Same type of situation.
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Re: Forgiveness without repentence?

Postby Jericho on Fri Jan 25, 2013 11:48 am

Perhaps Jesus and Stephan said this more for themselves, so they would not die with unforgiveness in there hearts against there persecutors or maybe it was for our benefit, as a model of forgiveness against even our enemies.
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Re: Forgiveness without repentence?

Postby Tevye on Fri Jan 25, 2013 12:15 pm

Abiding in His Word wrote:
It's only a movie, but consider ... The Robe.
The Roman officer who won Christ's robe and his path after...
It's not an actual account, but could some of his experiences
been what it might have been like on his road to forgiveness?
(for one of the real men who crucified Christ)


Loved that movie, Tevye.

Me too.
I just watched part of the sequel to it the other day.
(I didn't even know there was one)
"The Robe 2" -link

Abiding in His Word wrote:Scripture does mention one Roman centurion:

When the centurion, who was standing right in front of Him, saw the way He breathed His last, he said, "Truly this man was the Son of God!" Mark 15:39

This was a spiritual revelation wasn't it? I think we all agree there is no exact way to become born again of the spirit, so isn't it possible that this centurion became saved at that moment?
Yes.
I imagine that the process of being led
to that moment of revelation, was seeing
the true and living God crucified, instead
of one of the false gods he grew up to know
as a child of Rome. A statement such as his
was a form of repentance from the false gods.
(as quickly as it was...)
God only knows... if he stayed on the path
of repentance from the idols of Rome.
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Re: Forgiveness without repentence?

Postby Abiding in His Word on Fri Jan 25, 2013 12:55 pm

Jericho wrote:Perhaps Jesus and Stephan said this more for themselves, so they would not die with unforgiveness in there hearts against there persecutors or maybe it was for our benefit, as a model of forgiveness against even our enemies.


Another excellent thought, Jericho. Forgiving on the part of the one harmed/hurt is important....

Mat 6:14 "For if you forgive others for their transgressions, your heavenly Father will also forgive you.
Mat 6:15 "But if you do not forgive others, then your Father will not forgive your transgressions.


:eek:

Whoa! That's a bit scary....
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Re: Forgiveness without repentence?

Postby Abiding in His Word on Fri Jan 25, 2013 12:59 pm

Tevye wrote:I just watched part of the sequel to it the other day.
(I didn't even know there was one)
"The Robe 2" -link


Thanks for that; I'll check that out later this evening. I thought Victor Mature was so perfect for the role he played in several of the Bible movies. Charlton Heston did excellent as Moses as well.

Yes.
I imagine that the process of being led
to that moment of revelation, was seeing
the true and living God crucified, instead
of one of the false gods he grew up to know
as a child of Rome. A statement such as his
was a form of repentance from the false gods.
(as quickly as it was...)
God only knows... if he stayed on the path
of repentance from the idols of Rome.


Agreed. In the end, only God knows.
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Re: Forgiveness without repentence?

Postby Mark F on Sun Jan 27, 2013 3:24 pm

Abiding in His Word wrote:Luke 23:34 But Jesus was saying, "Father, forgive them; for they do not know what they are doing."

Jesus was asking for forgiveness of His murderers. Were they forgiven without repenting?


I would contend that for this particular sin of ignorance Jesus asked the Father to forgive them,
1 Corinthians 2:7-9:
7 "But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, the hidden wisdom which God ordained before the ages for our glory, 8 which none of the rulers of this age knew; for had they known, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory."


I don't think we could infer the forgiveness of all of their sins was granted in this statement, they were lost before this sin, so to forgive them of this one done in great ignorance wouldn't exonerate them of all the others.

This would be a demonstration of divine grace. He even had compassion on those who mocked and killed Him.
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Re: Forgiveness without repentence?

Postby Tevye on Sun Jan 27, 2013 5:48 pm

"If we have been united with him like this in his death, we will certainly
also be united with him in his resurrection. For we know that our old self
was crucified with him so that the body of sin might be done away with
that we should no longer be slaves to sin because anyone
who has died has been freed from sin.

Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him.
For we know that since Christ was raised from the dead, he cannot die again
death no longer has mastery over him. The death he died, he died to sin once for all
but the life he lives, he lives to God. In the same way, count yourselves dead to sin
but alive to God in Christ Jesus."
Romans chapter 6

"It is better, if it is God’s will, to suffer for doing good
than for doing evil. For Christ died for sins once for all
the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God."
1 Peter chapter 3

"this Man" (Yeshua)
"after He had offered one sacrifice for sins forever
sat down at the right hand of God, from that time
waiting till His enemies are made His footstool.

For by one offering He has perfected forever
those who are being sanctified."
-
"Now where there is forgiveness of these
things, there is no longer any offering for sin."
Hebrews chapter 10

"Free from the law, O happy condition!

Jesus has bled and there is remission:

Cursed by the law and bruised by the fall,

Grace has redeemed us once for all!


Once for all, O sinner, receive it!

Once for all, O brother, believe it!

Cling to the cross, the burden will fall

Christ has redeemed us once for all!"

- Philip P. Bliss

A good rendition of 'once for all' can be played here:
https://soundcloud.com/revd-up/once-for-all-lyrics-hymn-by
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Re: Forgiveness without repentence?

Postby Mark F on Sun Jan 27, 2013 6:44 pm

Tevye wrote:"If we have been united with him like this in his death, we will certainly
also be united with him in his resurrection. For we know that our old self
was crucified with him so that the body of sin might be done away with
that we should no longer be slaves to sin because anyone
who has died has been freed from sin.

Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him.
For we know that since Christ was raised from the dead, he cannot die again
death no longer has mastery over him. The death he died, he died to sin once for all
but the life he lives, he lives to God. In the same way, count yourselves dead to sin
but alive to God in Christ Jesus."
Romans chapter 6

"It is better, if it is God’s will, to suffer for doing good
than for doing evil. For Christ died for sins once for all
the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God."
1 Peter chapter 3

"this Man" (Yeshua)
"after He had offered one sacrifice for sins forever
sat down at the right hand of God, from that time
waiting till His enemies are made His footstool.

For by one offering He has perfected forever
those who are being sanctified."
-
"Now where there is forgiveness of these
things, there is no longer any offering for sin."
Hebrews chapter 10

"Free from the law, O happy condition!

Jesus has bled and there is remission:

Cursed by the law and bruised by the fall,

Grace has redeemed us once for all!


Once for all, O sinner, receive it!

Once for all, O brother, believe it!

Cling to the cross, the burden will fall

Christ has redeemed us once for all!"

- Philip P. Bliss

A good rendition of 'once for all' can be played here:
https://soundcloud.com/revd-up/once-for-all-lyrics-hymn-by


The whole council of God tells us that yes Jesus died once for all, but before the imputation of His righteousness to us, we must first believe. These in the OP are the exception to the rule, not the norm. We have no evidence to conclude that this forgivness was anything but the forgiveness of this one particular sin.

I may be wrong in my assumptions as you only quoted Scripture and song lyrics with no comments, but the way in which it is presented it seems to imply some degree of universalism. You are correct in that even I believe that no one will be in hell for their sins in general, they all were atoned for, but people will be in hell because they rejcted Jesus and believed not upon the Son and His provision.
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Re: Forgiveness without repentence?

Postby Tevye on Sun Jan 27, 2013 7:59 pm

Not forgiveness to all of the Romans who
physically crucified Yeshua, just the one.
centurion
who was standing right in front of Him,
saw the way He breathed His last,
and said, "Truly this man was the Son of God!"

(As Abiding ... wonderfully shared.)

To me this would seem that his was a response
to the Master saying:
“Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing.”
...and to seeing how a man of such honor and no guilt suffered
maybe the Spirit of the Lord was so strong in that moment there
that the fulness of His grace spilled over into this man's heart
when it was open to hearing God ...extending forgiveness to all.
Not that all were absolved at that moment, but we can know
that scripture tells us from Christ Himself that:

"Whoever acknowledges me before men
I will also acknowledge him before my Father in heaven."
Matthew 10:32

God only knows... if there were any others not mentioned in the gospels.

Christ died for all sin, once and for all.
It is not up to us to gather them all together
and present them all at one moment for absolution.
I'm sure that the Spirit of the Lord is fully competent
to lead us step by step on the path of sanctification.

But even if we die and have not achieved the goal
of completely addressing all of our sins before God
that the one moment of asking forgiveness for sin
would be sufficient in the blood of Christ shed
to cover a multitude of our sins. It is up to us
to keep getting up when we fall and ask God
to grant us strength along the journey
until the day He appears and transforms
us into a body that is no longer prone to sin.

"The end of all things is near
therefore, be of sound judgment and sober spirit
for the purpose of prayer. Above all, keep fervent
in your love for one another, because
love covers a multitude of sins"
1 Peter 4

Yeshua in the one act of dying
is the perfect example of love
that ...
"covers a multitude of sins"

He is love.

"What of Love" - by Clear (((((((videolink)))))))
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Re: Forgiveness without repentence?

Postby Mark F on Sun Jan 27, 2013 8:28 pm

I remember now that Abiding did mention the centurion...
Last edited by Mark F on Sun Jan 27, 2013 8:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Forgiveness without repentence?

Postby Abiding in His Word on Sun Jan 27, 2013 8:29 pm

But even if we die and have not achieved the goal
of completely addressing all of our sins before God
that the one moment of asking forgiveness for sin
would be sufficient in the blood of Christ shed
to cover a multitude of our sins.


Oh, Tevye, this is so important for us to comprehend because to deny this truth is to nullify what He has done.
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Re: Forgiveness without repentence?

Postby Keeping Alert on Tue Jan 29, 2013 9:58 am

Abiding in His Word wrote:
But even if we die and have not achieved the goal
of completely addressing all of our sins before God
that the one moment of asking forgiveness for sin
would be sufficient in the blood of Christ shed
to cover a multitude of our sins.


Oh, Tevye, this is so important for us to comprehend because to deny this truth is to nullify what He has done.


:a3:

I would dare say not one of us have truly repented of ALL our sins when we first came to the saving knowledge of Jesus Christ... And yet we are gloriously saved and forgiven the moment we choose to believe.

Whilst repentance and salvation are intricately tied together, it is not so much of addressing each and every particular personal sin that is important, but rather the repentance from our previous rejection or ignorance of Jesus Christ as God and Savior...

I can't help but recall the various times where people were brought to him like the man with palsy through the roof or people who personally encountered Jesus like the woman who an anointed Jesus with perfume... It is mentioned he saw their faith and as a result they were forgiven... Faith... Not repentance...

But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of that that diligently seek him - Hebrews 11:6
Now is my soul troubled; and what shall I say? Father, save me from this hour: but for this cause came I unto this hour.

πατερ δοξασον σου το ονομα
Father, glorify thy name.

Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God.
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Re: Forgiveness without repentence?

Postby Sonbeam on Tue Jan 29, 2013 11:14 am

Abiding in His Word wrote:Luke 23:34 But Jesus was saying, "Father, forgive them; for they do not know what they are doing."

Jesus was asking for forgiveness of His murderers. Were they forgiven without repenting?


Hi Abiding!

The answer is Yes! Praise God!! All of mankind WAS forgiven at the Cross for PAST sins -- those sins committed under the first covenant. By first covenant I mean the covenant God imposed on Adam under which we ALL came under condemnation.

Rom 5:18 Consequently, just as the result of one trespass was condemnation for all men, so also the result of one act of righteousness was justification that brings life for all men.

The forgiveness God granted all men fulfilled the unconditional promise God made to Abraham when He said to him:

Gen 12:3 I will bless those who bless you, and whoever curses you I will curse; and all peoples on earth will be blessed through you."

And God gets more specific when He tells Abraham that it will be through his offspring (Christ) that He will bless all nations.

Gen 22:18 and through your offspring all nations on earth will be blessed, because you have obeyed me."

Does the above mean that all men are saved then? No. Forgiven men now have to comply (if I may use that word) with the one requirement or stipulation of the second covenant, i.e., the New Cov, which is to believe in the One He has sent.


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Re: Forgiveness without repentence?

Postby WOODHENOT3 on Tue Mar 05, 2013 2:39 pm

Abiding in His Word wrote:Luke 23:34 But Jesus was saying, "Father, forgive them; for they do not know what they are doing."

Jesus was asking for forgiveness of His murderers. Were they forgiven without repenting?


I would not think so because we pray for those who sinned against God and ask God to forgive them, they still must Repent and ask God for forgiveness themselves....God never said those murderers were forgiven, did he?
I would ask God to forgive my enemy for punching me in the face doesn't mean they get saved or anything...:)
In Christ Always,
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Re: Forgiveness without repentence?

Postby Resurrection Torchlight on Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:28 am

Just recently had a conversation about this topic. After hearing a message about the story of Joseph. The preacher said that Joseph forgave his brothers before they actually repented. But I do not see that as the case at all. Joseph tested his brothers to see if they would treat Benjamin the same as they treated him. He wanted evidence that they had changed their behavior. When Judah told him he would take the place of their younger brother as a slave to Jospeh who had not yet revealed himself, then Joseph relented and showed mercy and forgiveness.

This is consistent throughout the scriptures- repentance is required for forgiveness. When we pray for the forgiveness of the sins of others, we are releasing them to God, so that He can bring them to the place of repentance so that forgiveness can be granted. Many in the crowd who shouted "crucify Him" would later repent and be saved, the same is true in Stephen's case.

Acts 2:36-39
36 “Therefore let all the house of Israel know for certain that God has made Him both Lord and Christ—this Jesus whom you crucified.”
37 Now when they heard this, they were pierced to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Brethren, what shall we do?”
38 Peter said to them, “Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
39 “For the promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off, as many as the Lord our God will call to Himself.”


You see what happened at Pentecost- Peter reminds the Jews who were gathered for Pentecost of their sin- they crucified Jesus. They were convicted - "Pierced to the heart", they understood then that what they had not only allowed but what they themselves had cried for- the death of Christ was wrong and that they were guilty. Peter then instructs them to repent and be baptized for the forgiveness of sins. These were likely the same Jews that were gathered to Jerusalem for the Passover, who stood in the crowd just weeks before shouting "crucify Him!". They were guilty of murdering the Messiah. If they were forgiven, then why does Peter tell them they must repent (and be baptized) for the forgiveness of sin?

Luke 24:46-47
46 and He said to them, “Thus it is written, that the Christ would suffer and rise again from the dead the third day,
47 and that repentance for forgiveness of sins would be proclaimed in His name to all the nations, beginning from Jerusalem.


Luke 17:3-4
3 “Be on your guard! If your brother sins, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him.
4 “And if he sins against you seven times a day, and returns to you seven times, saying, ‘I repent,’ forgive him.”


Acts 26:15-18
15 “And I said, ‘Who are You, Lord?’ And the Lord said, ‘I am Jesus whom you are persecuting.
16 ‘But get up and stand on your feet; for this purpose I have appeared to you, to appoint you a minister and a witness not only to the things which you have seen, but also to the things in which I will appear to you;
17 rescuing you from the Jewish people and from the Gentiles, to whom I am sending you,
18 to open their eyes so that they may turn from darkness to light and from the dominion of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who have been sanctified by faith in Me.’


To truly believe- one must repent- turn from darkness to light, turn from the dominion of Satan to God so that they may receive forgiveness of sins. If one simply acknowledges God without repentance then that it not belief.

James 2:14-24
14 What use is it, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him?
15 If a brother or sister is without clothing and in need of daily food,
16 and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and be filled,” and yet you do not give them what is necessary for their body, what use is that?
17 Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself.
18 But someone may well say, “You have faith and I have works; show me your faith without the works, and I will show you my faith by my works.”
19 You believe that God is one. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder.
20 But are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless?
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up Isaac his son on the altar?
22 You see that faith was working with his works, and as a result of the works, faith was perfected;
23 and the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “And Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness,” and he was called the friend of God.
24 You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.


Belief alone is not what justifies, the works of righteousness prove our faith is genuine. If one is to produce the works of righteousness the only way to do so is by repentance:

Romans 8:5-17
5 For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit.
6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace,
7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so,
8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.
10 If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness.
11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.
12 So then, brethren, we are under obligation, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh—
13 for if you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live.
14 For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.
15 For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again, but you have received a spirit of adoption as sons by which we cry out, “Abba! Father!”
16 The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God,
17 and if children, heirs also, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him so that we may also be glorified with Him.


If those who truly believe are- by the power of the Holy Spirit in them- putting to death the deeds of the flesh (AKA repentance) they will live.

Repentance must follow belief in order to produce a faith that leads to righteousness. To present ourselves as instruments of righteousness to God we must not allow ourselves to allow sin to reign in our bodies so that we obey the lusts of the flesh- this is the act of repentance.

Romans 6:12-23
12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its lusts,
13 and do not go on presenting the members of your body to sin as instruments of unrighteousness; but present yourselves to God as those alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God.
14 For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace.
15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? May it never be!
16 Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness?
17 But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed,
18 and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness.
19 I am speaking in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness, resulting in further lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness, resulting in sanctification.
20 For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness.
21 Therefore what benefit were you then deriving from the things of which you are now ashamed? For the outcome of those things is death.
22 But now having been freed from sin and enslaved to God, you derive your benefit, resulting in sanctification, and the outcome, eternal life.
23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.


Therefore forgiveness is granted when repentance is demonstrated. Show me any on one in scripture who was forgiven without first demonstrating repentance. Even those whom Jesus asked the Father to forgive as demonstrated in Acts, had to repent first before being forgiven.

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Re: Forgiveness without repentence?

Postby Resurrection Torchlight on Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:46 am

If I forgive another for a sin that they committed and there is no repentance form that sin, then what benefit has that person if I forgive them? They still remain in their sin. My forgiveness granted to them has accomplished nothing except for myself perhaps. But if I truly love the one who has sinned against me then I will instruct them concerning their sin, show them why what they did was wrong and how it harmed me and admonish them to repent. I think the whole idea of just forgiving others when they sin is laziness on the part of the church. Matthew 18 lays out guidelines as to how we are to approach those who are in sin. The purpose of admonishing others is twofold, to promote reconciliation (repentance) between people and between the offender and God. Secondly to maintain the purity of the church. If one refuses to repent then they are to be treated as an outsider, or an unbeliever.

Love must be what motivates us to admonish others, because we want them to walk rightly with us and with God. Forgiveness granted without repentance is selfish IMO. It only absolves the wronged party from having to deal with the one who did wrong.


This said, we need to be careful not to allow bitterness to creep in, when others have refused to repent of offenses and sin. Though scripture says we are to treat those who refuse as unbelievers, we still need to treat them as Christ would- in love. We give them up to God to render discipline in their lives, to bring them to that place of repentance. Like the prodigal son. So that when they are disciplined by the Lord they will repent and return to the Father's table and not be like the prodigal's brother who was bitter but rejoice with the Father that this one repented and has been reconciled to God.

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Re: Forgiveness without repentence?

Postby WOODHENOT3 on Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:55 am

:a3: Torchlight!!
A very thorough scriptural explanation...
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Re: Forgiveness without repentence?

Postby WOODHENOT3 on Thu Mar 07, 2013 10:16 am

I think the whole idea of just forgiving others when they sin is laziness on the part of the church

I agree!
Some are busy being judgmental as well.....
Matthew 5 is good too...
43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you, 45 that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. 46 For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? 47 And if you greet your brethren only, what do you do more than others? Do not even the tax collectors do so? 48 Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.
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Re: Forgiveness without repentence?

Postby WOODHENOT3 on Thu Mar 07, 2013 10:33 am

Luke 5:32
I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners, to repentance.”

Jesus has spoken of "repentance" many times throughout the NT...
it's pretty obvious,must repent with forgiveness... :grin:
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Re: Forgiveness without repentence?

Postby GodsStudent on Thu Mar 07, 2013 12:26 pm

I love this thread.
RT, as usual, you brought lots of meat to the table, sis. You're awesome!
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Re: Forgiveness without repentence?

Postby keithareilly on Thu Oct 24, 2013 2:40 am

Considering the events of 70AD...

In accordance with the parable of the Tenants, (Matt21:41) “He will bring those wretches to a wretched end,” they replied, “and he will rent the vineyard to other tenants, who will give him his share of the crop at harvest time.”

Repentence can be thought of as giving to God what is God's and to Ceaser what is Ceaser's.

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Re: Forgiveness without repentence?

Postby bchandler on Thu Oct 24, 2013 7:22 am

Jesus forgave sinners by his word, long before his crucifixion. Later in scripture, he told his disciples that they had the power to remit or bind a persons sins upon them.

On the day of Pentecost, when Peter was asked what was needed for salvation, he told the crowd to repent and be baptized.

I think what is important here is to distinguish between forgiveness, repentance, and salvation.

Before God could accomplish the work of salvation, we all had to be reconciled to God... Our sin debt paid in full.

Jesus accomplished this work upon the cross, for all mankind, for all time. All sin was covered at the cross. All sin was forgiven at the cross. Salvation was purchased for all men at the cross.

Think of it this way... God gave every human being a gift certificate for eternal life at the cross. All that is required to receive that gift, is to redeem the gift certificate. We do that by BELIEVING into Jesus, and repenting of our sins.

Repentance is NOT the act of seeking the forgiveness that was already bought for us at the cross. It IS the act of recognizing, confessing, and turning away from our sins. That is the very definition of the word repent. God does not sin, yet he repented that he had ever made man, before the flood. That being the case, it is impossible for repentance to involve seeking forgiveness.

Though I do think it is natural for us to seek/acknowledge God's forgiveness when we truly desire to turn away from our sins.
I am not a god or a doctor, and nothing i say should be construed as medical advice or even as correct. I am merely a living soul who is exercising my unalienable rights, endowed upon me by my creator, and recognized in the Constitution for the united States of America, to freely speak about the things i believe. No other soul should grant my words any weight without first determining their credibility and/or accuracy for themselves.
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Re: Forgiveness without repentence?

Postby mark s on Thu Oct 24, 2013 8:22 am

Hi BC,

Well stated!

:grin:
ειπεν αυτη ο ιησους εγω ειμι η αναστασις και η ζωη ο πιστευων εις εμε καν αποθανη ζησεται
. . . saying to her Jesus, I AM the resurrection and the life, the one believing into Me even dying shall live . . .
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