Unreported News, Commentary, Resources and Discussion of Bible Prophecy
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40 But the other criminal rebuked him. “Don’t you fear God,” he said, “since you are under the same sentence? 41 We are punished justly, for we are getting what our deeds deserve. But this man has done nothing wrong.”
42 Then he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.”
43 Jesus answered him, “Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise.”
16 John answered them all, “I baptize you with water. But one who is more powerful than I will come, the straps of whose sandals I am not worthy to untie. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.
29 The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world! 30 This is the one I meant when I said, ‘A man who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.’ 31 I myself did not know him, but the reason I came baptizing with water was that he might be revealed to Israel.”
32 Then John gave this testimony: “I saw the Spirit come down from heaven as a dove and remain on him. 33 And I myself did not know him, but the one who sent me to baptize with water told me, ‘The man on whom you see the Spirit come down and remain is the one who will baptize with the Holy Spirit.’ 34 I have seen and I testify that this is God’s Chosen One.”
13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.
14 When the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had accepted the word of God, they sent Peter and John to Samaria. 15 When they arrived, they prayed for the new believers there that they might receive the Holy Spirit, 16 because the Holy Spirit had not yet come on any of them; they had simply been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 17 Then Peter and John placed their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.
38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call.”
40 With many other words he warned them; and he pleaded with them, “Save yourselves from this corrupt generation.” 41 Those who accepted his message were baptized, and about three thousand were added to their number that day.
44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message. 45 The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on Gentiles. 46 For they heard them speaking in tongues and praising God.
Then Peter said, 47 “Surely no one can stand in the way of their being baptized with water. They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have.” 48 So he ordered that they be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked Peter to stay with them for a few days.
I am a minister in Ohio if you are in need of being baptized.
InNeedofaSavior wrote:Abiding, I am near Canton. I do want to be baptized.. as an act of obedience. I really feel I should.
LastDaysBroadcast wrote:daffodyllady, it is perfectly fine that you do not agree with their doctrine but be careful about giving a "traditional" argument that is not supported by scripture nor grammatical/logical sense. ...
...when you state that “That the truth of the trinity of God does not have to be explainable to mortal brains,” I would ask where in the scripture does it state that?
water wrote:There are so many ideas out there regarding salvation that are just wrong...and sometimes they are really difficult to figure out.
I use the TOTC rule...Thief On The Cross.
Was he baptized? Did he receive communion? Did he have a chance to do good works? Did he say a certain prayer a certain way?
What did he do? ...
LastDaysBroadcast wrote:Abiding - no, I don't believe a minister is required for baptism but from a scripture point of view, throughout the book of Acts, it would appear to be a minister who did the baptizing
LastDaysBroadcast wrote:Yes, but born again Jews!
As the Gospel spread, so did the race/nationality of believers, preachers, baptizers, etc. Church history records this.
The question is not how close to Eph 2:8-9, Mark 16:16, Acts 2:38, James 1:27.... can I be and still be saved (I was baptized once, said a sinners prayer once), but leaving the elementary things behind we press on. These things have been written that you may know.
I like this quote:
Forgotten God – Francis Chan (Theology of the Holy Spirit 101)
I think it’s needless for us to debate about when the Holy Spirit becomes a part of someone’s life. In my own life, was it when I first prayed as a little kid and believed I was speaking to Someone? Was it in junior high; when I raised my hand after hearing an evangelist who literally scared the hell out of me? Was it when I got baptized? Was it in high school, when I actually had a personal relationship with Jesus? Could it have been in college, when I came forward at a charismatic Bible study to “receive the Spirit”? Or was it later in life, when I chose to surrender my life fully to Jesus?
jgilberAZ wrote:If there's any act we need to perform in order to be saved, then it's no longer faith alone in Christ alone by grace alone, but has been corrupted into faith+works, which is heresy.
daffodyllady wrote:Show your faith without obedience, and see how far that gets you.
God says that faith without obedience is dead.
Can you get into heaven on dead faith? Don't bet your soul on it.
AndCanItBe wrote:daffodyllady wrote:Show your faith without obedience, and see how far that gets you.
God says that faith without obedience is dead.
Can you get into heaven on dead faith? Don't bet your soul on it.
I read a wise man (whose name I can't remember) once said something to the effect of "You haven't argued grace correctly until someone accuses you of giving a license to sin."
Yes, of course real faith results in obedience. I haven't seen anyone say otherwise.
notworthcomparing wrote:Concerning the Thief on the Cross. Yes the great commission had not been given at that time, but there is a bigger issue.
Christ is calling us into relationship. He is LORD and we are His disciples. The question is not when did you get wet, but when did you surrender and trust your life to Him?
Once you are overwhelmed by His grace, baptism will be such a small stepping stone as you seek to pour out your life in gratitude for what has been done.
The thief had no opportunity for baptism, but was saved. Christ ordered baptism, but He is not so petty as to rule someone out who had surrendered His heart, but had no opportunity.
If you believe, follow Jesus, be baptized. But, if you happen to bite the dust before you get the chance, don't sweat it, God has a backup plan, Plan G, for grace.
burien1 wrote:What about people on their deathbeds ? Do you all think it is impossible for them to be saved ? They are usually in no shape to go and be Baptised, or to take up the cross and follow anyone anywhere, so to speak. All some can do at all, is genuinely believe that Jesus is their Savior.
extravagantchristian wrote:AndCanItBe wrote:daffodyllady wrote:Show your faith without obedience, and see how far that gets you.
God says that faith without obedience is dead.
Can you get into heaven on dead faith? Don't bet your soul on it.
I read a wise man (whose name I can't remember) once said something to the effect of "You haven't argued grace correctly until someone accuses you of giving a license to sin."
If you don't mind me saying, that man was not wise at all. I would absolutely hate for a person to get the impression from me that they have a license to sin. That's horrible! Not wise!
21 But now apart from the Law the righteousness of God has been manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction; 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus; 25 whom God displayed publicly as a propitiation in His blood through faith. This was to demonstrate His righteousness, because in the forbearance of God He passed over the sins previously committed; 26 for the demonstration, I say, of His righteousness at the present time, so that He would be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.
27 Where then is boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? Of works? No, but by a law of faith. 28 For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works [s]of the Law. 29 Or is God the God of Jews only? Is He not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also, 30 since indeed God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith is one.
31 Do we then nullify the Law through faith? May it never be! On the contrary, we establish the Law.
Daniel 12:3
Those who are wise shall shine Like the brightness of the firmament, And those who turn many to righteousness Like the stars forever and ever.
Those who are wise should be turning people TO righteousness, not AWAY.Yes, of course real faith results in obedience. I haven't seen anyone say otherwise.
No, real faith does not always result in obedience. Many people have significant amounts of faith, but yet they never take that final step of dieing to themselves, taking their cross, and following Jesus, but instead they choose to live life their way.
1 What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh, discovered in this matter? 2 If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about—but not before God. 3 What does Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”
4 Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation. 5 However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness. 6 David says the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the one to whom God credits righteousness apart from works:
7 “Blessed are those
whose transgressions are forgiven,
whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the one
whose sin the Lord will never count against them.”
9 Is this blessedness only for the circumcised, or also for the uncircumcised? We have been saying that Abraham’s faith was credited to him as righteousness. 10 Under what circumstances was it credited? Was it after he was circumcised, or before? It was not after, but before! 11 And he received circumcision as a sign, a seal of the righteousness that he had by faith while he was still uncircumcised. So then, he is the father of all who believe but have not been circumcised, in order that righteousness might be credited to them. 12 And he is then also the father of the circumcised who not only are circumcised but who also follow in the footsteps of the faith that our father Abraham had before he was circumcised.
13 It was not through the law that Abraham and his offspring received the promise that he would be heir of the world, but through the righteousness that comes by faith. 14 For if those who depend on the law are heirs, faith means nothing and the promise is worthless, 15 because the law brings wrath. And where there is no law there is no transgression.
16 Therefore, the promise comes by faith, so that it may be by grace and may be guaranteed to all Abraham’s offspring—not only to those who are of the law but also to those who have the faith of Abraham. He is the father of us all. 17 As it is written: “I have made you a father of many nations.” He is our father in the sight of God, in whom he believed—the God who gives life to the dead and calls into being things that were not.
18 Against all hope, Abraham in hope believed and so became the father of many nations, just as it had been said to him, “So shall your offspring be.” 19 Without weakening in his faith, he faced the fact that his body was as good as dead—since he was about a hundred years old—and that Sarah’s womb was also dead. 20 Yet he did not waver through unbelief regarding the promise of God, but was strengthened in his faith and gave glory to God, 21 being fully persuaded that God had power to do what he had promised. 22 This is why “it was credited to him as righteousness.” 23 The words “it was credited to him” were written not for him alone, 24 but also for us, to whom God will credit righteousness—for us who believe in him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead. 25 He was delivered over to death for our sins and was raised to life for our justification.
AndCanItBe wrote:
Then the Apostle Paul was not wise in the writing of Romans, because he was accused of the same.
Romans 3
21 But now apart from the Law the righteousness of God has been manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction; 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus; 25 whom God displayed publicly as a propitiation in His blood through faith. This was to demonstrate His righteousness, because in the forbearance of God He passed over the sins previously committed; 26 for the demonstration, I say, of His righteousness at the present time, so that He would be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.
27 Where then is boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? Of works? No, but by a law of faith. 28 For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works [s]of the Law. 29 Or is God the God of Jews only? Is He not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also, 30 since indeed God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith is one.
31 Do we then nullify the Law through faith? May it never be! On the contrary, we establish the Law.
We disagree on what the definition of saving faith is. Saving faith is sealed with the Holy Spirit and produces obedience as fruit. First you believed, then you obeyed.
extravagantchristian wrote:AndCanItBe wrote:
Then the Apostle Paul was not wise in the writing of Romans, because he was accused of the same.
Romans 3
21 But now apart from the Law the righteousness of God has been manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction; 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus; 25 whom God displayed publicly as a propitiation in His blood through faith. This was to demonstrate His righteousness, because in the forbearance of God He passed over the sins previously committed; 26 for the demonstration, I say, of His righteousness at the present time, so that He would be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.
27 Where then is boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? Of works? No, but by a law of faith. 28 For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works [s]of the Law. 29 Or is God the God of Jews only? Is He not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also, 30 since indeed God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith is one.
31 Do we then nullify the Law through faith? May it never be! On the contrary, we establish the Law.
I dont quite see where Paul was being accused of giving people a liscense to sin. Could you point that particular verse out?
We disagree on what the definition of saving faith is. Saving faith is sealed with the Holy Spirit and produces obedience as fruit. First you believed, then you obeyed.
It's interesting you mention "saving faith" because that phrase is not in the Bible anywhere. There is only one kind of faith. Our faith is not what saves us, so therefore there is no such thing as "saving faith" It is what we CHOOSE to do with our faith that contributes to our salvation. We can choose to act on it or ignore it. It is our decision. That is what we were put on this earth to do is decide if we are going to walk by faith, or not. It's a test. Just as the garden of eden was a test for adam and eve, so is our life a test, and we already know that it's not enough to simply believe in God, we must obey.
water wrote:Oh yah...one more thing.
Everyone has seen the news about the flooding of the Missouri River, around Omaha...where both nuclear and waste treatment plants are in danger of being flooded.
I just thought I would mention you probably don't want to be baptized downstream of Omaha, else the nuclear poo baptism might not quite qualify as true baptism, and or be the last thing you did in this life.
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