What is the Christian response?

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What is the Christian response?

Postby Jericho on Wed Jul 08, 2020 7:33 am

Suppose your church is targeted by activists who are aggressive, disruptive, and not interested in playing nice. You know the type. What should the Christian response be? Should we be passive, aggressive, or defensive? And how should we go about doing it?
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Re: What is the Christian response?

Postby shorttribber on Wed Jul 08, 2020 1:36 pm

Jericho wrote:Suppose your church is targeted by activists who are aggressive, disruptive, and not interested in playing nice. You know the type. What should the Christian response be? Should we be passive, aggressive, or defensive? And how should we go about doing it?

I don't know, it's getting very complicated.
The Wisest men have changed their Counsels and Resolves upon second thoughts, much more upon experience, and approaching evils not at first discovered. Rev. Herbert Croft, 1675

Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counsellors there is safety.

Find seven years of tribulation plainly stated in the Bible.
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Re: What is the Christian response?

Postby Ready1 on Wed Jul 08, 2020 2:39 pm

This is pretty tough but Jesus did say it...

Mat 5:38  Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: 
Mat 5:39  But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. 
Mat 5:40  And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloke also. 
Mat 5:41  And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain. 
Mat 5:42  Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away. 

Mat 5:43  Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. 
Mat 5:44  But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; 
Mat 5:45  That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. 
Mat 5:46  For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same? 
Mat 5:47  And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so? 
Mat 5:48  Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect. 


All of my flesh rises in rebellion to this, but I trust the Lord to show me the correct response if and when the time comes.
Just observing.

E.
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Re: What is the Christian response?

Postby Ready1 on Wed Jul 08, 2020 2:45 pm

We are holding services outside and we have apartment buildings on three sides of our church house. As our pastor spoke of the biblical response to gay and lesbian leadership in churches as well as abortion, it suddenly came to me that there could be a target upon his frontside and backside from some of our neighbors. On the other hand, he has a biblical mandate to speak from God's word.

The stakes are ratcheting upward...
Just observing.

E.
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Re: What is the Christian response?

Postby Jericho on Wed Jul 08, 2020 3:56 pm

Ready1 wrote:All of my flesh rises in rebellion to this, but I trust the Lord to show me the correct response if and when the time comes.


I note that the apostles didn't actively fight back when persecuted but they didn't let it stop them from preaching either. However, how did we rectify with the passage where Jesus tells the apostles to buy swords? There's only one use for swords.
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Re: What is the Christian response?

Postby Ready1 on Wed Jul 08, 2020 4:25 pm

Jericho wrote:
Ready1 wrote:All of my flesh rises in rebellion to this, but I trust the Lord to show me the correct response if and when the time comes.


I note that the apostles didn't actively fight back when persecuted but they didn't let it stop them from preaching either. However, how did we rectify with the passage where Jesus tells the apostles to buy swords? There's only one use for swords.


I don't think I am the only one who finds this abhorrent!

Rev 6:10  And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? 
Just observing.

E.
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Re: What is the Christian response?

Postby mark s on Thu Jul 09, 2020 11:16 am

Jericho wrote:I note that the apostles didn't actively fight back when persecuted but they didn't let it stop them from preaching either. However, how did we rectify with the passage where Jesus tells the apostles to buy swords? There's only one use for swords.


Hi Jericho,

That was for the disciples at the time, I think, and Peter used his, but Jesus told him not to. I'm trying to remember, wasn't there a prophecy regarding that?

But even so, that was them at that time, and for us,

Hebrews 10
32 But call to remembrance the former days, in which, after ye were illuminated, ye endured a great fight of afflictions;
33 Partly, whilst ye were made a gazingstock both by reproaches and afflictions; and partly, whilst ye became companions of them that were so used.
34 For ye had compassion of me in my bonds, and took joyfully the spoiling of your goods, knowing in yourselves that ye have in heaven a better and an enduring substance.
35 Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward.

These supported the 'wrong' people, and paid the price for it. But we don't need to cling to the things in the world, even our own lives, trusting God.

It becomes a time to question how much do we trust God.

Much love!
ειπεν αυτη ο ιησους εγω ειμι η αναστασις και η ζωη ο πιστευων εις εμε καν αποθανη ζησεται
. . . saying to her Jesus, I AM the resurrection and the life, the one believing into Me even dying shall live . . .
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Re: What is the Christian response?

Postby bchandler on Thu Jul 09, 2020 10:09 pm

Jesus told his disciples that a time had come when all would turn against them, then he told them to acquire swords... I think this is obviously a matter of their right to defend their own lives.

I don't think that has ever changed...

We were told to be wise as serpents and harmless as doves...

Every serpent will strike when it feels it's life threatened...

We were told the world would know us by our love for eachother... Not our love for the world...

Every person has the right to defend their life when they perceive that it is in Jepaordy. Up to that point, we endure.

We were only told to lay down our lives for the gospel, not just for anyone who wants to harm us.

Wisdom will tell us the difference, the when, and the how.
I am not a god or a doctor, and nothing i say should be construed as medical advice or even as correct. I am merely a living soul who is exercising my unalienable rights, endowed upon me by my creator, and recognized in the Constitution for the united States of America, to freely speak about the things i believe. No other soul should grant my words any weight without first determining their credibility and/or accuracy for themselves.
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Re: What is the Christian response?

Postby Jericho on Fri Jul 10, 2020 7:43 am

bchandler wrote:Jesus told his disciples that a time had come when all would turn against them, then he told them to acquire swords... I think this is obviously a matter of their right to defend their own lives.


I think so too Bchandler. God has put in everything a survival mechanism and a will to live. Even prey animals when cornered will fight back. I don't believe God wants people to be like lambs for a slaughter and never defend themselves. I think there is a tendency among Christians to be pacifists in order to emulate Christ. But that was Jesus' role to be crucified during His first coming and His role alone. What they forget is when Jesus returns He is coming back as a lion to smite His enemies.

I am reminded of the Crusaders who were basically Christian warrior monks. They believed there was justification for fighting just wars. Not that we are fighting that kind of war today, but that there are legitimate instances for Christians to use force. I think it may be necessary for churches to have members who are trained like security guards and are able to carry if possible. They should have a plan in place and know how to run interference against an unruly mob if necessary. At the very least churches should hire outside security.

I am reminded of an incident that happened in a Texas church not that long ago. A man had concealed a shotgun under his coat and shot two church goers before he himself was shot and killed. The guy that shot him was working as security and was an ex-firearms instructor. If he wasn't there think how many more would have died. There were several members in the church who were also carrying. It's unfortunate we have to do this, but this is now the world we live in.
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Re: What is the Christian response?

Postby shorttribber on Fri Jul 10, 2020 5:26 pm

The ancient church did not take any human life under any circumstances. Those that did, were Arians, they had no problem with it. In fact, the lives they took, were the True Christians.
The manner of life regarding taking another human life changed under Constantine. I do not plan on killing to defend my family or myself.
How others respond may vary.
God will faithfully help our minds and hearts.
Last edited by shorttribber on Sat Jul 11, 2020 12:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The Wisest men have changed their Counsels and Resolves upon second thoughts, much more upon experience, and approaching evils not at first discovered. Rev. Herbert Croft, 1675

Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counsellors there is safety.

Find seven years of tribulation plainly stated in the Bible.
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Re: What is the Christian response?

Postby Ready1 on Sat Jul 11, 2020 8:15 am

My mind (from scriptural understanding) tends to nonresistance. Not passivity but nonresistance.

NT model appears to be...

Mat_5:39  But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.

Jas_5:6  Ye have condemned and killed the just; and he doth not resist you.


On the other hand, we are told to resist the devil.

Jas_4:7  Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.
Just observing.

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Re: What is the Christian response?

Postby shorttribber on Sat Jul 11, 2020 1:17 pm

Ready1 wrote:My mind (from scriptural understanding) tends to nonresistance. Not passivity but nonresistance.

NT model appears to be...

Mat_5:39  But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.

Jas_5:6  Ye have condemned and killed the just; and he doth not resist you.


On the other hand, we are told to resist the devil.

Jas_4:7  Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

And that resistance (against the devil) is spiritual in nature.
:a3:
The Wisest men have changed their Counsels and Resolves upon second thoughts, much more upon experience, and approaching evils not at first discovered. Rev. Herbert Croft, 1675

Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counsellors there is safety.

Find seven years of tribulation plainly stated in the Bible.
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Re: What is the Christian response?

Postby Ready1 on Sat Jul 11, 2020 1:30 pm

ST wrote:And that resistance (against the devil) is spiritual in nature.


Agree
Just observing.

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Re: What is the Christian response?

Postby mark s on Sat Jul 11, 2020 6:48 pm

shorttribber wrote:And that resistance (against the devil) is spiritual in nature.
:a3:

I think it's an act of the will, a choosing to continue in the new man, not get pulled back to the old man through some inflamed passion of anger or angst.

A drawing near to God as the world is pulling your attention towards it through a perception of threat or harm. And as we do that, then whatever is the godly response, the Holy Spirit will work in our lives. Even as the fear fills our minds, should it, by choosing to trust that God IS our Shepherd, and resting in that, we resist everything and everyone trying to get us to doubt.

Much love!
ειπεν αυτη ο ιησους εγω ειμι η αναστασις και η ζωη ο πιστευων εις εμε καν αποθανη ζησεται
. . . saying to her Jesus, I AM the resurrection and the life, the one believing into Me even dying shall live . . .
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Re: What is the Christian response?

Postby Exit40 on Sun Jul 12, 2020 7:14 am

Generally speaking, and I do not like to play to 'what if's', but I would likely just stand and take whatever is directed at me.
I can take any verbal assault however it comes, however, I would not likely stand for a physical assault on a friend, neighbor, or Brethren in Christ. How I would resist that would depend on the circumstance I suppose. I don't have Scriptural backing for this, it's just the way I'm built from the inside out. Always been like this, too old to change.

God Bless

David
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God

T'was Grace that taught my heart to fear.
And Grace, my fears relieved.
How precious did that Grace appear
The hour I first believed.
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Re: What is the Christian response?

Postby Sonbeam on Sun Jul 12, 2020 8:04 am

mark s wrote:
shorttribber wrote:And that resistance (against the devil) is spiritual in nature.
:a3:

I think it's an act of the will, a choosing to continue in the new man, not get pulled back to the old man through some inflamed passion of anger or angst.

A drawing near to God as the world is pulling your attention towards it through a perception of threat or harm. And as we do that, then whatever is the godly response, the Holy Spirit will work in our lives. Even as the fear fills our minds, should it, by choosing to trust that God IS our Shepherd, and resting in that, we resist everything and everyone trying to get us to doubt.

Much love!


A drawing near to God indeed Mark. And finding refuge in Him as evil swirls around us. But oddly enough, or maybe not since He said without Him we cannot do anything, our Lord must do this drawing to Himself for us.

I pray He does this quickly for each one of His children so He may shine His light through us to proclaim His Gospel as this world keeps getting darker.

:blessyou: and all,


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Re: What is the Christian response?

Postby shorttribber on Sun Jul 12, 2020 8:25 am

1st Thes.5:24
"Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.”
The Wisest men have changed their Counsels and Resolves upon second thoughts, much more upon experience, and approaching evils not at first discovered. Rev. Herbert Croft, 1675

Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counsellors there is safety.

Find seven years of tribulation plainly stated in the Bible.
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Re: What is the Christian response?

Postby Jericho on Sun Jul 12, 2020 9:46 am

Exit40 wrote:Generally speaking, and I do not like to play to 'what if's', but I would likely just stand and take whatever is directed at me.
I can take any verbal assault however it comes, however, I would not likely stand for a physical assault on a friend, neighbor, or Brethren in Christ. How I would resist that would depend on the circumstance I suppose. I don't have Scriptural backing for this, it's just the way I'm built from the inside out. Always been like this, too old to change.

God Bless

David


Same here David. I don't consider myself especially brave when it comes to me, but to protect someone I love, yes. But to each their own.

Mat_5:39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.


And yet...

Now the Passover of the Jews was at hand, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem.

And He found in the temple those who sold oxen and sheep and doves, and the money changers doing business.

When He had made a whip of cords, He drove them all out of the temple, with the sheep and the oxen, and poured out the changers’ money and overturned the tables.

And He said to those who sold doves, “Take these things away! Do not make My Father’s house a house of merchandise!” (John 2:13-16)
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Re: What is the Christian response?

Postby Mr Baldy on Sun Jul 12, 2020 10:55 am

Jericho wrote:Suppose your church is targeted by activists who are aggressive, disruptive, and not interested in playing nice. You know the type. What should the Christian response be? Should we be passive, aggressive, or defensive? And how should we go about doing it?


Fight is on Brother!

Exit40 wrote: can take any verbal assault however it comes, however, I would not likely stand for a physical assault on a friend, neighbor, or Brethren in Christ. How I would resist that would depend on the circumstance I suppose.


:a3:
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