mark s wrote:I have 2 questions, I'll let you know what I think, I'd like to know what you think. I'd like to ask for specific yes/no, with whatever Scriptures and reasoning have led to your view.
(1) Did Adam have the true choice of whether or not to sin, with either option equally available?
I believe that yes, he was able to equally choose to sin or not sin, to obey or not obey, and could have acted in either manner. I base this on a couple of lines of reasoning.
One is that he was "created in the image of God", and that God declared all that He had made Good. It simply makes no sense to me to call good that which can only do evil, and that being "in the image of God" would include only being able to do evil. God condemns through Isaiah those who call evil good. This means to me that Adam was at least able to choose good. That he chose evil demonstrated that option also.
God refers to the "first Adam" or "first man", and the "last Adam", or "last man", holding up Adam and Jesus as 2 parts in a set of 2. There's more to be said about that, but I'll hold on for now.
(2) Do we have, as part of who we are being born into humanity, the true choice of whether or not to sin, with either option equally available?
I believe that no, we are not able to equally choose to sin or not sin, to obey or not obey, and we are not, as a matter of our nature through human birth, able to act in obedience to God. It is only in coming to faith that we can begin to obey God. Before we can obey Him, we have to first believe He is. Reference pleasing God, same thing, you have to first believe.
The Bible refers to the unbelievers, the not-born-again as "dead in sins", "slaves to sin", like that. David mentions being conceived in sin, not that his mother was being sinful in how he was conceived, rather, acknowledging that humanity is being born into sin.
All have sinned. No one has escaped the scourge of sin. Is that because God created humans in such a way that they would be unable to avoid sin? No choice? They're going to sin! Sooner or later.
I believe the answer lies in that Adam had the choice of what to do, but he chose to go against God.
Having failed to honor the Author of Life Adam forfeited his life, not physically dying that day, as God had said would happen, but dying just the same, as his spiritual side died.
So I think that Adam was the true innocent, and, having sinned, he became corrupted in nature, and we are all born, just as God had said, like giving birth to like, so we too are born corrupted in nature, destined to sin because we are sinners, rescued by Jesus, the other true innocent.
What do you think?
Love in Christ,
Mark
To your first question: (1) Did Adam have the true choice of whether or not to sin, with either option equally available?
I would say Adam, Eve, and Jesus are the only humans to have lived in a sinless state. It would be interesting to know how long they lived in the garden sinless before their fall to sin, if and what would have been a stumbling block to them apart from the only stipulation we are given in that God told them to not eat of that tree. Would they have been tempted to do something else? For me it seems I can sin in the first 60 seconds after waking in the morning so my opportunity for sin is plenty, all they could not do was eat some fruit from one particular tree. Did the fact that God gave them a "thou shalt not" make for the possibility of a sin?
If God never told Adam there was something he could not do would they have still found a way to commit a sin?
Oh well, we shall never know. To your question. They had no choice to make until they were given the command to not eat the fruit. God provided the situation that would test whether they would be obedient or rebellious. I believe that they would have been content to be obedient if it were not for the serpent.
I believe that the Scriptures are replete with patterns by God's design. Adam is described in that manner and you cited it in the text after the question, the first Adam, and last Adam.
Paul tells us that Adam was not deceived but Eve was deceived. That doesn't mean there is no consequence, the Scripture says the wages of sin is death. Eve was at the moment she ate, a sinner, condemned to die.
So if Adam was not deceived the only alterative is that he chose to become a sinner.
1Ti 2:14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression.
Paul could not be clearer in this case in that unlike the woman who was tricked, Adam was not tricked. Adam chose to face the consequence that God personally told him, that the result of eating the fruit he would die. Did he understand that? I can't say, could he tell that Eve was no longer sinless like he was? I suspect he did, and for that reason he chose to sin, like her.
Romans 5 adds a lot more commentary to this discussion,
Rom 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come.
To ask then, what then is the significance of Adam's sin and what is different about everyone else's sins since then? What was the likeness of the transgression of Adam? Paul told us in 1 Tim 2:14 - Adam was not deceived but chose to
become
a sinner. Paul goes even further with this revelation in Romans 5:14 above, that Adam was a type of Him who was to come, namely Jesus Christ. How could Adam's transgression be a type of Christ? All Paul's examples are antitypes in Romans 5:15-21. Contrasts of failure (Adam) and righteousness (Christ)
Paul writes in 2 Cor this passage:
2Co 5:21 For He made Him who knew no sin (to be*) sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.
2Co 5:21 ForG1063 he hath madeG4160 him (to be*) sinG266 forG5228 us,G2257 who knewG1097 noG3361 sin;G266 thatG2443 weG2249 might be madeG1096 the righteousnessG1343 of GodG2316 inG1722 him.G846 (KJV)
"To be" above as I am sure you know, is said to not be in the Greek. One commentator I read stated that the word "sin" is substantive, not the verb. As I have only spoken English for 52 0r 53 years, I had to look up the definition for substantive. In this case the commentator is saying the word sin is functioning syntactically as a noun.
So I look at 2 Cor 5:21 again, God made Him, or God considered Him, or God treated Him as sin. God did not make Jesus "sin."
Jesus chose this to be so. The Scriptures above show that Adam chose to become a sinner, how much he understood is debatable, but we know he chose this predicament. Jesus chose to be treated like Adam deserved (and all of us). The type is seen in this.
I believe the Scripture is very clear that Adam not only chose to become a sinner, but did it with an understanding that for him to have his bride, he had to choose to join her in her fallen state. This isn't in my view something worthy of praise but only that he knew what he was doing. I suspect after Eve sinned he knew there was a divide between them. I shall not speculate further as some people get real itchy about that. But it isn't unfounded by the text.
There is also a text in Romans 8 that I believe to support this.
Rom 8:20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope;
I struggle with the commentators, and here the translators who capitalized the word "Him." Paul is writing about our future glory, among other things, but in verses 23-25 he talks about this hope, we are the ones who hope, I find it difficult to read verse 20 in that God would not subject the creation to futility in hopes of a good outcome. Hope isn't hope if it's seen Paul wrote in verse 24, why does one hope for what he sees? We hope for what we cannot see.
Adam I believe subjected creation to futility in hope of redemption. I cannot reconcile that God can "hope" because He knows the end from the beginning, Jesus, the lamb slain from the foundation of the earth. To me that verse is counter to Scripture if the "him" is God.
So yes I say Adam did choose, we on the other hand are from Adam after his fall. We are dead in sins. We can choose only after we are born again and the Holy Spirit makes us alive in Christ.
