A popular prophetic word; What is its time span?

Discussion and debate not related to prophecy.

A popular prophetic word; What is its time span?

Postby Jay Ross on Thu Dec 22, 2016 2:42 pm

With Christmas approaching when we consider popular Messianic prophecies, perhaps we could consider the time Span of this section of Prophecy from Isaiah and consider its implications for Israel and us.

Isaiah 9:1-10:4

1 Nevertheless the gloom will not be upon her who is distressed,
As when at first He lightly esteemed
The land of Zebulun and the land of Naphtali,
And afterward more heavily oppressed her,
By the way of the sea, beyond the Jordan,
In Galilee of the Gentiles.
2 The people who walked in darkness
Have seen a great light;
Those who dwelt in the land of the shadow of death,
Upon them a light has shined.

3 You have multiplied the nation
And increased its joy;
They rejoice before You
According to the joy of harvest,
As men rejoice when they divide the spoil.
4 For You have broken the yoke of his burden
And the staff of his shoulder,
The rod of his oppressor,
As in the day of Midian.
5 For every warrior's sandal from the noisy battle,
And garments rolled in blood,
Will be used for burning and fuel of fire.

6 For unto us a Child is born,
Unto us a Son is given;
And the government will be upon His shoulder.
And His name will be called
Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
7 Of the increase of His government and peace
There will be no end,
Upon the throne of David and over His kingdom,
To order it and establish it with judgment and justice
From that time forward, even forever.
The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this.

The Punishment of Samaria

8 The Lord sent a word against Jacob,
And it has fallen on Israel.
9 All the people will know —
Ephraim and the inhabitant of Samaria —
Who say in pride and arrogance of heart:
10 'The bricks have fallen down,
But we will rebuild with hewn stones;
The sycamores are cut down,
But we will replace them with cedars."
11 Therefore the Lord shall set up
The adversaries of Rezin against him,
And spur his enemies on,
12 The Syrians before and the Philistines behind;
And they shall devour Israel with an open mouth.

For all this His anger is not turned away,
But His hand is stretched out still.

13 For the people do not turn to Him who strikes them,
Nor do they seek the Lord of hosts.
14 Therefore the Lord will cut off head and tail from Israel,
Palm branch and bulrush in one day.
15 The elder and honorable, he is the head;
The prophet who teaches lies, he is the tail.
16 For the leaders of this people cause them to err,
And those who are led by them are destroyed.
17 Therefore the Lord will have no joy in their young men,
Nor have mercy on their fatherless and widows;
For everyone is a hypocrite and an evildoer,
And every mouth speaks folly.

For all this His anger is not turned away,
But His hand is stretched out still.

18 For wickedness burns as the fire;
It shall devour the briers and thorns,
And kindle in the thickets of the forest;
They shall mount up like rising smoke.
19 Through the wrath of the Lord of hosts
The land is burned up,
And the people shall be as fuel for the fire;
No man shall spare his brother.
20 And he shall snatch on the right hand
And be hungry;
He shall devour on the left hand
And not be satisfied;
Every man shall eat the flesh of his own arm.
21 Manasseh shall devour Ephraim, and Ephraim Manasseh;
Together they shall be against Judah.

For all this His anger is not turned away,
But His hand is stretched out still.

[b]Assyria Shall Be Broken

10:[b]1 "Woe to those who decree unrighteous decrees,
Who write misfortune,
Which they have prescribed
2 To rob the needy of justice,
And to take what is right from the poor of My people,
That widows may be their prey,
And that they may rob the fatherless.
3 What will you do in the day of punishment,
And in the desolation which will come from afar?
To whom will you flee for help?
And where will you leave your glory?
4 Without Me they shall bow down among the prisoners,
And they shall fall among the slain."

For all this His anger is not turned away,
But His hand is stretched out still.
Jay Ross
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Re: A popular prophetic word; What is its time span?

Postby Jay Ross on Fri Dec 23, 2016 11:17 pm

It is my understanding that this section of prophecy covers around 3,700 years plus eternity of prophecy.

Has anyone else got any ideas?
Jay Ross
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Re: A popular prophetic word; What is its time span?

Postby sacredcowbasher on Sun Dec 25, 2016 7:02 pm

Fascinating section of Isaiah. I see 3000 years as in the time of Jesus' birth, then His reign of His heavenly kingdom which can also be seen as His earthly reign during the millennium.

If you are familiar with Jonathan Cahn's book, I forget the name of it, it was based on Isa 10: 9,10. It deals with a wrong response to judgement which is to say, we will rebuild better and stronger, when they should have looked and reflected on their sins and turned and repented.
Gal 2: 14-19 But when I saw that they were not straightforward about the truth of the gospel, I said to Peter before them all, "If you, being a Jew, live in the manner of Gentiles and not as the Jews, why do you compel Gentiles to live as Jews? We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified. But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is Christ therefore a minister of sin? Certainly not! For if I build again those things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor. For I through the law ( the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus ), died to the law ( the law of sin and death ) that I might live to God. Parenthetical remarks added are mine.
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Re: A popular prophetic word; What is its time span?

Postby Jay Ross on Fri Dec 30, 2016 2:39 pm

Thanks for your words.


Jay Ross
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Re: A popular prophetic word; What is its time span?

Postby 1whowaits on Sat Dec 31, 2016 2:43 pm

I believe this passage is pointing to 2 different fulfillments at 2 separate times. When scripture is partially fufilled it would reason that there would then be a further future fulfillment, a near and far fulfillment.

'For unto us a child is born...' was fulfilled by Jesus in the past, while 'He will reign on David's throne and over his kingdom...from that time on and forever', is still to be fulfilled by Jesus in the future. To Isaiah these would both be future fulfillments, one near, the other far.

Scripture does this in other passages such as the destruction of Babylon in the past and in the future, as in Jer 50-51, but it is not linking the time periods together.

As this passage in Isa is describing near and far fulfillments by Jesus it also appears to be referring to near and far fulfillment of the 'Assyrian'.

While there were past attacks by the Assyrians and the Assyrian king, there also appears to be a future Assyrian that will attack Israel noted in the scripture. Micah 5 describes an invasion be the 'Assyrian' who is defeated by God and Israel rules the land of the Assyrian with the sword, an event that did not occur in the past.

There is some debate as to who the future Assyrian is, the AC or Gog. Some confuse the 2 but there are clear differences between the 2. The AC is captured alive while Gog is buried in a mass grave after presumably being killed. God sends plague and bloodshed and fire on Gog while Jesus destroys the forces of the AC with the sword of His mouth. God puts hooks in the jaws of Gog to turn him around and bring him out, while the AC with Satan and the FP send out demons to gather the armies of the world, God does not draw them.

Gog comes to loot and plunder while the AC fights against the rider on the horse, Jesus. After Gog the war material will be burned by fire for fuel, while at armageddon the troops will rot where they stand as will their animals(Zech 14) and will become like 'fine dust' (Isa 29), no burning described or likely needed.

Isa 10 describes the Assyrian as one who will 'seize loot and snatch plunder', who is sent by God or perhaps drawn out and turned around- 'but this is not what he intends, this is not what he has in mind'. God will send a 'wasting disease' upon the Assyrian's troops and a 'fire will be kindled, a blazing flame'. Also Isa 9 describes the braking of the yoke and rod of the oppressors of Israel, an apparent reference to the oppression of Assyria, whose war material will be burned- 'Every warriors boot used in battle and every garment rolled in blood will be destined for burning, will be fuel for the fire.'

It would appear that the Assyrian to come is likely Gog. In the past God used the Assyrian to punish Israel and drive them back to Himself 'But the people have not returned to Him who struck them, not have they sought the Lord Almighty' Isa 9. 700 years later God sent His Messiah, the first time period in Isa 9-10 being from the time of the Assyrian to the time of the first coming of Messiah, 700 years later.

After Gog, Ezek 39 states that Israel will know that the Lord is her God, a return to God is the underlying purpose of Gog-Magog, but no mention is made of returning to or accepting the Messiah, as Zech 12 does describe at aramgeddon. Ezek 39 also describes a 7 year period of weapons burning following the defeat of Gog, so it may be that the time between the future Assyrian and the coming of Messiah will be 7 years, the final 7 years of man and Satan's rule.
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Re: A popular prophetic word; What is its time span?

Postby Ready1 on Sun Jan 01, 2017 7:42 am

Near-Far prophetic passages abound. Probably the most famous would be


Luk 4:18 "The Spirit of the LORD is upon Me, for He has anointed Me to bring Good News to the poor. He has sent Me to proclaim that captives will be released, that the blind will see, that the oppressed will be set free,
Luk 4:19 and that the time of the LORD's favor has come. "
Luk 4:20 He rolled up the scroll, handed it back to the attendant, and sat down. All eyes in the synagogue looked at Him intently.
Luk 4:21 Then He began to speak to them. "The Scripture you've just heard has been fulfilled this very day!"

Isa 61:1 The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;
Isa 61:2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn;
Just observing.

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Re: A popular prophetic word; What is its time span?

Postby 1whowaits on Sun Jan 01, 2017 8:42 pm

Ready, i do find Isa 61 and 63 interesting as it describes Jesus' return at armageddon, the day of vengeance, in association with the year of Jubilee, the year of the Lord's favor, the year of redemption.

The counting of the years of Jubilee in the past has been lost to history, but it may be possible the counting restarts when Israel is 'in the land'. Israel regained Judah and Jerusalem in 1967, so the 50th year, the year of Jubilee would be around this time. But according to statements by Caleb in Joshua, there was a delay in conquering and planting the land by 7 years, so that tradition has it that the counting of the Sabbath years and year of Jubilee had been delayed by 7 years.

If a delay of 7 years did hold, in order for settlements to be made and lands planted, the counting of the Sabbath years would begin in 1973-74 time frame, and the year of Jubilee would occur around 2023-2024. Theoretically of course.
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Re: A popular prophetic word; What is its time span?

Postby Jay Ross on Sun Jan 01, 2017 10:18 pm

Isaiah 61:4 (from memory) talks about Israel rebuilding their houses in the land of Judah after 2 ages of desolation and destruction in the land. We still have to wait for around another 30 years to pass before Israel will be freely allowed to rebuild their house in the Land of Judah and Israel. This will begin to occur from the beginning of the Millennium Age after the battles at Armageddon when all of Israel will be saved.

This is one of the time spans contained in the Isaiah 9:1-10:4 passage in the OP.
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