Christ's Gospel ..... still

Discussion and debate not related to prophecy.

Re: Christ's Gospel ..... still

Postby Sonbeam on Mon Aug 10, 2015 8:32 am

BeTheMoon wrote:Brothers and sisters? Catholicism is a cult. Just like mormonism, jehovahs witnesses, etc.

I suspect you disagree with me though.


Yes I do as far as my usage of the phrase "brothers and sisters." I have no problem with saying that because of the Cross. Paul puts it this way:

2 Cor 5:

14 For Christ’s love compels us, because we are convinced that one died for all, and therefore all died. 15 And he died for all, that those who live should no longer live for themselves but for him who died for them and was raised again.

16 So from now on we regard no one from a worldly point of view.

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Re: Christ's Gospel ..... still

Postby BeTheMoon on Mon Aug 10, 2015 7:17 pm

Sonbeam wrote:
BeTheMoon wrote:Brothers and sisters? Catholicism is a cult. Just like mormonism, jehovahs witnesses, etc.

I suspect you disagree with me though.


Yes I do as far as my usage of the phrase "brothers and sisters." I have no problem with saying that because of the Cross.


:faint:

I don't suggest you read the book of mormon, vatican councils, encyclicals, etc; but the poison in these teachings prohibits the ability for a person to imitate Paul. Even satan presents himself as an angel of light!

Phil 3:17-18
Brothers, join in imitating me, and keep your eyes on those who walk according to the example you have in us. For many, of whom I have often told you and now tell you even with tears, walk as enemies of the cross of Christ.


Even Paul was an enemy of the cross (as Saul). Mormons, catholics, jehovah's witnesses, etc; they need Jesus! The Jesus of the Bible. Are we to dismiss this mission field because we consider them "brothers and sisters" already? Nonsense! Yet our enemy will likely approve of this notion.
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Re: Christ's Gospel ..... still

Postby BeTheMoon on Mon Aug 10, 2015 7:46 pm

I guess I should have noticed this earlier...

Sonbeam wrote:Though in John 3 Jesus enumerated all the essentials of the salvation process for Nicodemus, He did not explain to him that He, and not Nicodemus, would take care of the birth of water first and then the Father would perform the birth of the Spirit when a person believed in Jesus as the Son. That certainly would have eased poor Nicodemus’ bewilderment about how in the world he was going to manage being born again.


So, using Calvinism's TULIP, Jesus does the "unconditional electing" and the Father does "irresistible grace"? Are these the two births you're speaking of?

If you say yes, and you also say that mormons and catholics (etc) are "brothers and sisters" because of the cross, then is this some kind of Reformed Universalism (liberal calvinism) belief system you have?
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Re: Christ's Gospel ..... still

Postby Sonbeam on Tue Aug 11, 2015 2:55 pm

BeTheMoon wrote:I guess I should have noticed this earlier...

Sonbeam wrote:Though in John 3 Jesus enumerated all the essentials of the salvation process for Nicodemus, He did not explain to him that He, and not Nicodemus, would take care of the birth of water first and then the Father would perform the birth of the Spirit when a person believed in Jesus as the Son. That certainly would have eased poor Nicodemus’ bewilderment about how in the world he was going to manage being born again.


So, using Calvinism's TULIP, Jesus does the "unconditional electing" and the Father does "irresistible grace"? Are these the two births you're speaking of?


In a somewhat manner of speaking. But I would not use the terms unconditional electing and irresistible grace to describe the salvation process. The Cross is an unconditional gift to all mankind from the Father as He sent the Son to step in and die in men’s place (pay the penalty for sin) and to shed His blood to cleanse men from sin.

Once Christ through the Cross reconciled all men to God (AND ratified the New Cov with His blood), then cleansed men have been/are ready to be born of the Spirit IF they believe the Gospel. At which time, God births them of His Spirit, and they become children of God of the generation of Christ.

I do not hold to the term “irresistible grace” because then all men would destined to be saved (born again of the Spirit) since all men were cleansed and reconciled to God on the Cross. So no, I do not believe in universalism. And I have stated this in other posts.

I have underlined the word men to show that even though Christ died for all men and reconciled all men to the Father, they still remain men, that is members of the generation of Adam who will not enter the kingdom unless they are born again of the Spirit, at which time they cease to be men of the generation of Adam and become children of God the generation of Christ.

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Last edited by Sonbeam on Fri Aug 14, 2015 8:56 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Christ's Gospel ..... still

Postby Sonbeam on Thu Aug 13, 2015 5:51 pm

BeTheMoon wrote:
Sonbeam wrote:
BeTheMoon wrote:Brothers and sisters? Catholicism is a cult. Just like mormonism, jehovahs witnesses, etc.

I suspect you disagree with me though.


Yes I do as far as my usage of the phrase "brothers and sisters." I have no problem with saying that because of the Cross.


Even Paul was an enemy of the cross (as Saul). Mormons, catholics, jehovah's witnesses, etc; they need Jesus! The Jesus of the Bible. Are we to dismiss this mission field because we consider them "brothers and sisters" already? Nonsense! Yet our enemy will likely approve of this notion.


I would hope that anyone reading my posts would know that my usage of the phrase “Brothers and Sisters” does not mean that I regard everyone I address this way as having been born again of the Spirit. I do not know -– regardless of the denomination they belong to -- who has and who hasn’t been born again. And for that matter, neither does anyone else except God.

However, because every human being alive today is a creation of God, made in His image, and someone for whom Christ died, I have no problem using this phrase as I did in my previous post.

Paul makes a point of reminding his readers three times in 2 Cor 5:14.15 that Christ died for all so his readers can then understand why he states in vs 16 that he no longer regards anyone from “a worldly point of view.”

2 Cor 5:14 For the love of Christ urges us on, because we are convinced that one has died for all; therefore all have died. 15 And he died for all, so that those who live might live no longer for themselves, but for him who died and was raised for them.

16 From now on, therefore, we regard no one from a human point of view;[b] even though we once knew Christ from a human point of view,[c] we know him no longer in that way.


What is the “worldly point of view”? I believe it is to judge others through the eyes of the flesh (from a human point of view) rather than through the love of Christ Who gave Himself for all. For what do we have that has not been given by God? As Paul reminds the puffed up Corinthians in 1 Cor 4:7:


7 For who sees anything different in you?[b] What do you have that you did not receive? And if you received it, why do you boast as if it were not a gift?

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