You Shall Surely Die

Discussion and debate not related to prophecy.

You Shall Surely Die

Postby Keeping Alert on Wed Mar 25, 2015 8:34 pm

Talking to Adam

Genesis 2:17 - But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Then Paul writes this of Jesus

1Corinthians 15:45 - And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.


Little did we know that when God said You Shall Surely Die, He was talking about His Very Own Son... :bowing:
Now is my soul troubled; and what shall I say? Father, save me from this hour: but for this cause came I unto this hour.

πατερ δοξασον σου το ονομα
Father, glorify thy name.

Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God.
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Re: You Shall Surely Die

Postby Sonbeam on Thu Mar 26, 2015 8:35 am

Yes RT,

And this was a spiritual death in our stead that happened between the 6th and ninth hours:

Matt 27:46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying, “Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani?” that is, “My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?” [fn]

An insightful commentary on this is here:

http://ronleigh.com/bible/two-deaths/index.htm#timing

:blessyou:

sonbeam
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Re: You Shall Surely Die

Postby Jay Ross on Thu Mar 26, 2015 3:09 pm

Sonbeam wrote:Yes RT,

And this was a spiritual death in our stead that happened between the 6th and ninth hours:

Matt 27:46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying, “Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani?” that is, “My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?” [fn]

An insightful commentary on this is here:

http://ronleigh.com/bible/two-deaths/index.htm#timing

:blessyou:

sonbeam


I know that this should be in another thread, but sonbeam, I searched Ronald W. Leigh, Ph.D. published articles for a few selected proofs to see if what he has written is valid for those selected proofs and found that he has held with "traditional understanding" as to what has previously been written. His expressed views on the required proofs I was looking for do not measure up with what I personally understand. As such I would discount the linked article in your post as being insightful in that he has invalidated one portion of scripture within my test proofs based on a poor interpretation of another portion of scripture. Because of this evidence, I would discount his commentary as not being reliable even if portions of it are beyond rebuttal.

Sadly in this thread, a case is being made for one understanding based on the silence of the scriptures themselves. Unless we were there during the time of Christ's crucifixion and were able to communicate with him about what was actually happening and what he was actually experiencing, then what we have is conjecture as a possibility of evidence for our views of what actually went down during that time period.

What was seen and recorded was Christ's physical death and resurrection. What we know is that God placed His only Son in the position where He was to bear all of the Sins of mankind such that through his blood those that believe in Him will be release from their sins that make us a candidate for the second death. Does the Scriptures teach us that the second death is "spiritual death?"

Our understanding of what actually went down during the time between when he gave up His breath on the cross and His resurrection is not that important for me. What is important is that I believe in Him whom He has sent. if I do that then I will be doing the very thing that Christ told us to do to be doing the works of God.
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Re: You Shall Surely Die

Postby Sonbeam on Thu Mar 26, 2015 5:57 pm

JR,

I find it very understandable that you would not agree with what the author has written on the two deaths of Christ. When I posted his url, I knew that there might be some or perhaps many who would not either. This is not a belief that is widely held within Christianity IMO.

I believe that knowing that Christ experienced two deaths on the cross adds to the understanding of the process of salvation. Personally, I take Christ at His Word, when he said the Father had forsaken Him -- which is spiritual death – the punishment for Adam’s (and mankind’s sins) sin.

But having said that, I agree with you that what is most important is that men come to believe in Jesus Christ as their Savior and receive eternal life through the new birth of the Spirit.

I have not read anything else that Mr. Leigh has written other than his commentary on the two deaths of Christ on the cross, and I’m in agreement with him on this.

Blessings,
sonbeam
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Re: You Shall Surely Die

Postby Exit40 on Fri Mar 27, 2015 6:23 am

There are some who think Jesus was quoting from Psalm 22. I think that is a possibility. I wonder why after Jesus spoke some said He called to Elias, some immediately gave him vinegar to drink, the rest said let's wait to see if Elias saves Him. True much is left unsaid, maybe because what was not recorded in Matthew was already recorded in the Psalm.

God Bless

David
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God

T'was Grace that taught my heart to fear.
And Grace, my fears relieved.
How precious did that Grace appear
The hour I first believed.
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Re: You Shall Surely Die

Postby Keeping Alert on Wed Apr 08, 2015 8:46 pm

I did not follow this thread that I myself started :lol:

I am rather surprised that there is disagreement that Jesus died both a physical and spiritual death.

"For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him." 2Corinthains 5:21

"For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God."

It is not just a physical death, but clearly also a spiritual death... He was made to be SIN FOR US... a spiritual state in which He died for once...
Now is my soul troubled; and what shall I say? Father, save me from this hour: but for this cause came I unto this hour.

πατερ δοξασον σου το ονομα
Father, glorify thy name.

Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God.
Keeping Alert
 
Posts: 2485
Joined: Mon Aug 11, 2008 3:48 am


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