It's All About Israel

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It's All About Israel

Postby mark s on Thu Jan 07, 2021 4:31 pm

Ezekiel 38
14 Therefore, son of man, prophesy and say unto Gog, Thus saith the Lord God; In that day when my people of Israel dwelleth safely, shalt thou not know it?
15 And thou shalt come from thy place out of the north parts, thou, and many people with thee, all of them riding upon horses, a great company, and a mighty army:
16 And thou shalt come up against my people of Israel, as a cloud to cover the land; it shall be in the latter days, and I will bring thee against my land, that the heathen may know me, when I shall be sanctified in thee, O Gog, before their eyes.

But not with a strong United States of America who stands as Israel's ally, I don't think.

I think this stolen election is all about taking away the US as protector of Israel.

Much love!
ειπεν αυτη ο ιησους εγω ειμι η αναστασις και η ζωη ο πιστευων εις εμε καν αποθανη ζησεται
. . . saying to her Jesus, I AM the resurrection and the life, the one believing into Me even dying shall live . . .
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Re: It's All About Israel

Postby Ready1 on Thu Jan 07, 2021 7:24 pm

Israel will be standing more alone than in their recent history with a Biden/Harris ticket. One of the things that Israel could depend upon from the US in the past was resupply and now that may not happen.
Just observing.

E.
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Re: It's All About Israel

Postby Loop on Thu Jan 07, 2021 7:40 pm

While watching the capitol being stormed and while they were taking Pelosi out for her protection the media very clearly said Pelosi was second in line to the presidency, so they have already let it known Biden isn't gonna be in long...
Psalms 91
1 He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty.
2 I will say of the LORD, He is my refuge and my fortress: my God; in him will I trust.
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Re: It's All About Israel

Postby Jay Ross on Fri Jan 08, 2021 1:48 pm

mark s wrote:Ezekiel 38
14 Therefore, son of man, prophesy and say unto Gog, Thus saith the Lord God; In that day when my people of Israel dwelleth safely, shalt thou not know it?
15 And thou shalt come from thy place out of the north parts, thou, and many people with thee, all of them riding upon horses, a great company, and a mighty army:
16 And thou shalt come up against my people of Israel, as a cloud to cover the land; it shall be in the latter days, and I will bring thee against my land, that the heathen may know me, when I shall be sanctified in thee, O Gog, before their eyes.

But not with a strong United States of America who stands as Israel's ally, I don't think.

I think this stolen election is all about taking away the US as protector of Israel.

Much love!


Mark s, perhaps you are looking in the wrong area of the scriptures, and comparing it to the recent history of what has occurred on the earth.

I have suggested previously on this forum that we should be considering Jeremiah 50-51 with the recent history of the world as I believe that the above passage better explains the events of the USA Presidential election, congressional elections and the Senate Election. What has the USA been involved in with respect to the Land of Babylon, during the time that Israel has been seeking Mt Zion. The truth of the matter is that although some of Abraham's descendants did return to land of Canaan in their own strength they still have not repented yet of their sins against God, over the past four ages, that being continuous Idolatrous worship. Ezekiel 36 certainly confirms this. In Ezekiel 34 when the metaphors are unpacked and understood, God prophecies that he will being Israel back to their own fertile soil/field and teach them on the mountain, i.e. the religion, of Israel, i.e. Christ, and cleanse them and bless them and the fruits of their toils in God's earth shall be great. In Jeremiah 31 God states that He will make like new again, i.e. renew again, the Kingdom of Priests, a Holy Nation and His Possession among the nations Covenant that they had rebelled against at Mt Sinai. The cleansing of Israel as Paul informs us in Romans 11:25-26 occurs after the fullness in time of the Gentiles has run the full course of 2,300 year of the trampling of God's Sanctuary and His earthly Host, after which all of Israel will be saved.

The saving of Israel will occur at the time of the judgement of the nations at Armageddon, and the end of the war in heaven, when the heavenly hosts will also be judged, and together, those judged to be lacking, will be imprisoned in the Bottomless pit for many days, i.e. 1,000 years, to await the time of their punishment. Isaiah 24:21-22, Revelation 12:7-9, 20:1-3

Now it is my understanding that Ezekiel 38-39 is for a distant future time period, after the Bottomless pit is unlocked after 1,000 years have past and describes the same event as is found in Revelations 19:11-21.

Shalom.
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Re: It's All About Israel

Postby mark s on Fri Jan 08, 2021 2:54 pm

Jay Ross wrote:The cleansing of Israel as Paul informs us in Romans 11:25-26 occurs after the fullness in time of the Gentiles has run the full course of 2,300 year of the trampling of God's Sanctuary and His earthly Host, after which all of Israel will be saved.


Hi Jay,

That's not actually what Paul wrote, however. You've computed a 2,300 year period by using a formula not found in the Bible, and were it so, would make many passages ridiculous. Did Jesus rise in 3 days or 3 years?


Now it is my understanding that Ezekiel 38-39 is for a distant future time period, after the Bottomless pit is unlocked after 1,000 years have past and describes the same event as is found in Revelations 19:11-21.

Shalom.


Remember of course that Gog is a spiritual 'prince', I would imagine a fallen angel, just the same, the prince of a people, just like the prince of Persia and the prince of Greek, Gog is the prince of Magog.

That this prince appears at the end of the next age doesn't surprise me, nor that his people are called by the same name. The gathering of Israel at the end of ch. 39 tells me this is at the beginning and not the end of the kingdom age.

Much love!
ειπεν αυτη ο ιησους εγω ειμι η αναστασις και η ζωη ο πιστευων εις εμε καν αποθανη ζησεται
. . . saying to her Jesus, I AM the resurrection and the life, the one believing into Me even dying shall live . . .
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Re: It's All About Israel

Postby Jay Ross on Fri Jan 08, 2021 10:34 pm

mark s wrote:
Jay Ross wrote:The cleansing of Israel as Paul informs us in Romans 11:25-26 occurs after the fullness in time of the Gentiles has run the full course of 2,300 year of the trampling of God's Sanctuary and His earthly Host, after which all of Israel will be saved.


Hi Jay,

That's not actually what Paul wrote, however. You've computed a 2,300 year period by using a formula not found in the Bible, and were it so, would make many passages ridiculous. Did Jesus rise in 3 days or 3 years?


If I have misquoted the Greek text context, then please provide your understanding of the Greek text to back up why you are making this claim and the many passages where the application of a year for a Day in Daniel 8 is consistent with the manner in which a day is considered to represent a year within the prophetic passage in the Book of Daniel.

From my research of Matthew 24:32, Jesus was using the year for a days principle when he indicated when the Summer Season would begin. Jesus was indicating that the beginning of the Summer season of harvesting souls would be around 93-98 after the fig tree began to bud once more. That is why I am confident that the Millennium Age will begin in around 20-25 years from now.

mark s wrote:
Jay Ross wrote:Now it is my understanding that Ezekiel 38-39 is for a distant future time period, after the Bottomless pit is unlocked after 1,000 years have past and describes the same event as is found in Revelations 19:11-21.

Shalom.


Remember of course that Gog is a spiritual 'prince', I would imagine a fallen angel, just the same, the prince of a people, just like the prince of Persia and the prince of Greek, Gog is the prince of Magog.

That this prince appears at the end of the next age doesn't surprise me, nor that his people are called by the same name. The gathering of Israel at the end of ch. 39 tells me this is at the beginning and not the end of the kingdom age.

Much love!


Yes Mark you are right when you say that Ez 39:21-29 is speaking of Israel's redemption which occurs during the first few years of the Millennium Age. The passage Ez 38:1-39:28 is speaking of the last few years of the Millennium Age, during the little while period after Satan, the Beast, the False Prophet, and the locusts are released from the bottomless pit.

Shalom
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Re: It's All About Israel

Postby Mr Baldy on Sun Jan 10, 2021 5:05 pm

Jay Ross wrote:The cleansing of Israel as Paul informs us in Romans 11:25-26 occurs after the fullness in time of the Gentiles has run the full course of 2,300 year of the trampling of God's Sanctuary and His earthly Host, after which all of Israel will be saved.


Hi Jay -

I'm not so sure where you have obtained the verbiage: '2,300 year of trampling of God's Sanctuary and His earthly Host" from :humm:

I'd be interested to learn where you are getting this source of information. Thanks
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Re: It's All About Israel

Postby Mr Baldy on Sun Jan 10, 2021 5:25 pm

Jay Ross wrote: The passage Ez 38:1-39:28 is speaking of the last few years of the Millennium Age, during the little while period after Satan, the Beast, the False Prophet, and the locusts are released from the bottomless pit.


Very soon - I'll be creating a Thread in the Prophecy Debate Section that will question whether or not there is a "literal" Millennial Kingdom. There are so many holes in a literal Millennial Kingdom theory that it needs to be debated.
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Re: It's All About Israel

Postby Jay Ross on Mon Jan 11, 2021 12:07 am

Mr Baldy wrote:
Jay Ross wrote:The cleansing of Israel as Paul informs us in Romans 11:25-26 occurs after the fullness in time of the Gentiles has run the full course of 2,300 year of the trampling of God's Sanctuary and His earthly Host, after which all of Israel will be saved.


Hi Jay -

I'm not so sure where you have obtained the verbiage: '2,300 year of trampling of God's Sanctuary and His earthly Host" from :humm:

I'd be interested to learn where you are getting this source of information. Thanks


Mr B, the verbiage as you have described my posts as has been taken directly from Scripture in a number of places.

I am sure that you are aware of chapter Daniel 8 where the following is found.

Daniel 8:8-14: - 8 Therefore the male goat grew very great; but when he became strong, the large horn was broken, and in place of it four notable ones came up toward the four winds of heaven. 9 And out of one of them came a little horn which grew exceedingly great toward the south, toward the east, and toward the Glorious Land. 10 And it grew up to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and some of the stars to the ground, and trampled them. 11 He even exalted himself as high as the Prince of the host; and by him the daily sacrifices were taken away, and the place of His sanctuary was cast down. 12 Because of transgression, an army was given over to the horn to oppose the daily sacrifices; and he cast truth down to the ground. He did all this and prospered.

13 Then I heard a holy one speaking; and another holy one said to that certain one who was speaking, "How long will the vision be, concerning the daily sacrifices and the transgression of desolation, the giving of both the sanctuary and the host to be trampled underfoot?"

14 And he said to me, "For two thousand three hundred days; then the sanctuary shall be cleansed."

Now, Daniel 9:26b gives us a clue as to how long the Temple Sanctuary will be trampled for and when that Trampling of the Sanctuary area will cease.

Daniel 9:26b: -
And the people of the prince who is to come
Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.
The end of it shall be with a flood,
And till the end of the war desolations are determined.

Mr B do we know when the Sanctuary was first trampled?, Do we know when the length of the war mentioned in the above passage? Does History help us?

The answer is that history does help us. We could argue that the Sanctuary was first trampled around the year 160 BC, and has been trampled right up and including this present time and will continue until the Little Horn and his army is removed from the earth by being locked up in a cistern/pit for many years to await their time of punishment. Isaiah 24:21-22 tells us that the kings of the earth and the heavenly fallen hosts are judged at the same time and then locked up for 1,000 years.

Now adding the above two time stamps together, we get

2020 - 160 BC = 2180 BC.

Now if the judgement of the heavenly hosts and the kings of the earth is to take place in around 20-25 years from now, then adding lets say 20 years to the 2,180 years we get 2,200 years which is not far off of 2,300 years.

Now around 100 years before the temple in Jerusalem was desecrated by one of the four parts of the Grecian Empire, the Grecian ruler in Alexandra in Egypt asked that the Hebrew Scriptures be transposed into the Greek language, which is where I believe the trampling of God's sanctuary and word first began.

If we use the year for a day for a prophetic year principle, we then can say that the 2,300 days in Daniel 8:14 is actually pointing to a time period of 2,300 years. The actual historical record strongly points to this being true.

Now if we go to Revelation 12, which I am sure you know very well, we read the following: -

Revelation 12:7-12: - Satan Thrown Out of Heaven

7 And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought with the dragon; and the dragon and his angels fought, 8 but they did not prevail, nor was a place found for them in heaven any longer. 9 So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

10 Then I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, "Now salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren, who accused them before our God day and night, has been cast down. 11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, and they did not love their lives to the death. 12 Therefore rejoice, O heavens, and you who dwell in them! Woe to the inhabitants of the earth and the sea! For the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, because he knows that he has a short time."

The above war is what Daniel 9:26b is referencing when it tells us that the desolation of the land of Canaan will last until the end of the war.

Isaiah 24:21-22 confirms that the wicked heavenly hosts and the kings of the earth are judged at the same time and they are gathered together to be imprisoned in the pit.

Isaiah 24:21-22 -

21 It shall come to pass in that day
That the Lord will punish on high the host of exalted ones,
And on the earth the kings of the earth.
22 They will be gathered together,
As prisoners are gathered in the pit,
And will be shut up in the prison;
After many days they will be punished.

Now I do know that my time understanding of when the described events have and will occur may not be precise, but that is no reason for the above explanation to be dismissed.

We know from Exodus 20:4-6 that the visitation of the sins of the fathers idolatrous behaviour will be visited on their children and their children's children in the third and the fourth {Age}. God showed His grace to Israel where before Christ came, He gave Israel 490 years to repent of their idolatrous behaviour and to put it away from them, but Israel as a body had great difficulty in abandoning this idolatry and so God turned His back on Israel for a period of two ages/days of the Lord, which is around 2,000 plus years long. God will turn towards Israel once more if they repent of their sins. In Luke 19:14, Jesus tells us that when Satan goes away to be imprisoned for 1,000 years in the Bottomless Pit that his servants from Israel will send a delegation off to express their desire to no longer Serve Satan. When Satan returns, after his imprisonment in the Bottomless pit, he immediately goes after the Israelite to kill them. When God protects them, Satan then turns his fury towards all of the Saints of God other than the Israelites.

But I am sure that you already know all of this.

Shalom
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Re: It's All About Israel

Postby Mr Baldy on Mon Jan 11, 2021 3:48 am

Jay Ross wrote:Mr B, the verbiage as you have described my posts as has been taken directly from Scripture in a number of places.


Yes - and I'll comment on this in as I continue.

Jay Ross wrote:Daniel 8:8-14:


For the sake of time - as you have already posted the passage of Scripture; I want to point out an apparent discrepancy in what you have mentioned in your analogy. It begins with the last verse - this is what Daniel 8:14 says:

And he said to me, “For 2,300 evenings and mornings; then the sanctuary will be properly restored.”



Respectfully Jay - Scripture mentions this is "2,300 evenings and mornings" - you in contrast mention:

"
Jay Ross wrote: the fullness in time of the Gentiles has run the full course of 2,300 year of the trampling of God's Sanctuary


You yourself even include this part of the Scriptural verbiage you wrote:

Jay Ross wrote:d he said to me, "For two thousand three hundred days; then the sanctuary shall be cleansed."



There is a huge difference between 2,300 evenings and mornings - which equate to DAYS verses 2,300 years. This really throws your whole theory off - and the reason why I could not understand your logic.

Here is another apparent discrepancy:

Jay Ross wrote:Isaiah 24:21-22 tells us that the kings of the earth and the heavenly fallen hosts are judged at the same time and then locked up for 1,000 years.


Here is what Isaiah 24:21-22 actually says:

Isaiah 24:21-22 -NASB

21) So it will happen on that day, That the Lord will punish the rebellious angels of heaven on high, And the kings of the earth on earth. 22) They will be gathered together Like prisoners in the dungeon, And will be confined in prison; And after many days they will be punished


No where in the aforementioned verses of Scripture do I see where the "heavenly fallen hosts are locked up for 1,000 years." I can only surmise that you are referring to Revelation 20 as it relates to the 1,000 years. This refers to Satan being bound - however, this is totally metaphorical and not literal.

Jay Ross wrote:If we use the year for a day for a prophetic year principle, we then can say that the 2,300 days in Daniel 8:14 is actually pointing to a time period of 2,300 years. The actual historical record strongly points to this being true.


I respectfully disagree with this analogy. Scripture is very clear about the 2,300 days being literal as it identifies it as being "evenings and mornings."

Here are a couple of links for you and those who may be reading this Thread to consider:

http://www.solagroup.org/articles/faqs/faq_0017.html

https://www.gotquestions.org/prophecy-2 ... aniel.html

In closing - I think we have to be very careful in discerning Bible Prophecy in discovering what has already been fulfilled, and what is literal verses what is metaphorical language.

Lets Keep Christ on the Throne!
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Re: It's All About Israel

Postby Jay Ross on Mon Jan 11, 2021 2:27 pm

Mr Baldy wrote:
Jay Ross wrote:Mr B, the verbiage as you have described my posts as has been taken directly from Scripture in a number of places.


Yes - and I'll comment on this in as I continue.

Jay Ross wrote:Daniel 8:8-14:


For the sake of time - as you have already posted the passage of Scripture; I want to point out an apparent discrepancy in what you have mentioned in your analogy. It begins with the last verse - this is what Daniel 8:14 says:

And he said to me, “For 2,300 evenings and mornings; then the sanctuary will be properly restored.”



Respectfully Jay - Scripture mentions this is "2,300 evenings and mornings" - you in contrast mention:

"
Jay Ross wrote: the fullness in time of the Gentiles has run the full course of 2,300 year of the trampling of God's Sanctuary


You yourself even include this part of the Scriptural verbiage you wrote:

Jay Ross wrote:d he said to me, "For two thousand three hundred days; then the sanctuary shall be cleansed."



There is a huge difference between 2,300 evenings and mornings - which equate to DAYS verses 2,300 years. This really throws your whole theory off - and the reason why I could not understand your logic.

Here is another apparent discrepancy:

Jay Ross wrote:Isaiah 24:21-22 tells us that the kings of the earth and the heavenly fallen hosts are judged at the same time and then locked up for 1,000 years.


Here is what Isaiah 24:21-22 actually says:

Isaiah 24:21-22 -NASB

21) So it will happen on that day, That the Lord will punish the rebellious angels of heaven on high, And the kings of the earth on earth. 22) They will be gathered together Like prisoners in the dungeon, And will be confined in prison; And after many days they will be punished


No where in the aforementioned verses of Scripture do I see where the "heavenly fallen hosts are locked up for 1,000 years." I can only surmise that you are referring to Revelation 20 as it relates to the 1,000 years. This refers to Satan being bound - however, this is totally metaphorical and not literal.

Jay Ross wrote:If we use the year for a day for a prophetic year principle, we then can say that the 2,300 days in Daniel 8:14 is actually pointing to a time period of 2,300 years. The actual historical record strongly points to this being true.


I respectfully disagree with this analogy. Scripture is very clear about the 2,300 days being literal as it identifies it as being "evenings and mornings."

Here are a couple of links for you and those who may be reading this Thread to consider:

http://www.solagroup.org/articles/faqs/faq_0017.html

https://www.gotquestions.org/prophecy-2 ... aniel.html

In closing - I think we have to be very careful in discerning Bible Prophecy in discovering what has already been fulfilled, and what is literal verses what is metaphorical language.

Lets Keep Christ on the Throne!


Thank you Mr b. for your expressed opinion, seemingly based on the opinions found on two internet sites. The original organisation associated with the first site is no longer operating as of 2012 and the information formally offered by Dr. Bill Lee-Warner, on his web site is being offered without any updating of the material that was first published. The second internet site also has published information which is in line with what you understand is the "true" understanding of Daniel 8:14.

Mr. B. you are entitled to hold whatever opinion you want, but to claim that another is wrong because you hold another opinion does not make your opinion right.

In the OP, Mark s expressed his opinion, that the USA was being stopped from being Israel's ally and pointed to Ezekiel 38-39 as his basis for his opinion. I posted that Jeremiah 50-51 gives us a better insight into what is occurring in the USA at this present time, which tells us in one verse the punishment for the nations of the Coalition of the Willing who joined with the USA to invade Babylon/Iraq to heal the land contrary to God's prophecy concerning the fate of the land of Babylon. When the Coalition of the Willing did not destroy the land and instead attempted to heal the land the task of bring destruction to the Land of Babylon was given over to the Medes, i.e. Iran, and ISIS took on the role of destroying Babylon and the USA and a number of other Nations joined the USA to oppose the ISIS insurgents. Going against God in the manner that the USA and the other nations of the Coalition of the Willing, has consequences, and in Jer 51:14 God tells us what the consequences will be: -

Jer 51:9-16

9 We would have healed Babylon,
But she is not healed.
Forsake her, and let us go everyone to his own country;
For her judgment reaches to heaven and is lifted up to the skies.

10 The Lord has revealed our righteousness.
Come and let us declare in Zion the work of the Lord our God.

11 Make the arrows bright!
Gather the shields!
The Lord has raised up the spirit of the kings of the Medes.
For His plan is against Babylon to destroy it,
Because it is the vengeance of the Lord,
The vengeance for His temple.
12 Set up the standard on the walls of Babylon;
Make the guard strong,
Set up the watchmen,
Prepare the ambushes.
For the Lord has both devised and done
What He spoke against the inhabitants of Babylon.
13 O you who dwell by many waters,
Abundant in treasures,
Your end has come,
The measure of your covetousness.
14 The Lord of hosts has sworn by Himself:
"Surely I will fill you with men, as with locusts,
And they shall lift up a shout against you.
"

15 He has made the earth by His power;
He has established the world by His wisdom,
And stretched out the heaven by His understanding.
16 When He utters His voice —
There is a multitude of waters in the heavens:
"He causes the vapors to ascend from the ends of the earth;
He makes lightnings for the rain;
He brings the wind out of His treasuries."


(As a side note, note that climate change is mentioned in verse 16 above, where it talks about the waters in the polar regions of the earth evaporating and makes lightening for rain.)

Now, Mr. B., Jeremiah 50-51 would be a good study for you to do to understand what is presently happening in the world.

In my response to the OP I made mention of when all of Israel will be save by reference to Romans 11:25-26 and said that Israel will be save at the conclusion of the 2,300 years of the Gentiles trampling God's Sanctuary and His earthly Hosts, Israel. Mark s tried to make fun of this statement by saying how silly the practice would be if we attributed a year for a day for all prophecy, which I agree with. The application of a year for a prophetic day rule must be done wisely, and to say that Daniel 8:14 is not subject to this rule is, IMHO, foolishness as it removes one more of the cornerstones for the End Time understanding that we should hold. A bit like holding strongly to the view that the Roman Empire is associated with the fourth and fifth segments of the Daniel 2 statue prophecy. Holding to this view has warped our understanding of Daniel's Prophecies and the End Times associated with Daniel's recorded prophecies from God as it has hidden the implications of Iraq and the Coalition of the Willing from consideration.

Mr. B., you kindly provided internet links to sites that hold to the literal understanding of 2,300 mornings and nights and I am sure that I can also search and find internet sites that hold to the year for a day understanding for Daniel 8:14. You links did not provide a balanced view but only pushed their opinion of what they believed was true.

The Book of the Maccabees records the desecration of the Temple by Antiochus Epiphanes and the 2,300 days, that it took from the start to the finish of this revolt, is more of a coincidence than anything else. Satan has attempted to cause a change in God's timeline for future events such that they are hidden from most today by this event which started around 167BC.

I could not agree more with your last paragraph where you said in part: -"I think we have to be very careful in discerning Bible Prophecy in discovering what has already been fulfilled, and what is literal verses what is metaphorical language." The question is whose yard stick do we use in discerning in what is literal and what is metaphorical language?

I am sure that there will be people who disagree with both of us as to how we interpret the scriptures through our studies of them.

Shalom
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Re: It's All About Israel

Postby Mr Baldy on Mon Jan 11, 2021 5:45 pm

Hi Jay -

Let's do take a look at exactly what was presented - and not make assumptions based on what others wrote without first asking for clarification please, when something is not clearly understood. This skews edification and the proper way to intelligently debate. Opinions are opinions, and facts are facts - lets please keep that in mind as well.

Jay Ross wrote:Thank you Mr b. for your expressed opinion, seemingly based on the opinions found on two internet sites.


I'm glad you mentioned "seemingly" - but you are incorrect. I do my own research. If there are site that confirm what I have already studied, then I may present them for others to take into consideration as well.

Jay Ross wrote:Mr. B. you are entitled to hold whatever opinion you want, but to claim that another is wrong because you hold another opinion does not make your opinion right.


I have never said you were wrong - what I did say was that I disagree with your interpretation. Let' s please not get into the habit of making unfounded comments by putting words into the comments of others.

Jay Ross wrote: The application of a year for a prophetic day rule must be done wisely, and to say that Daniel 8:14 is not subject to this rule is, IMHO, foolishness as it removes one more of the cornerstones for the End Time understanding that we should hold.


When I initially questioned you about this theory I asked for the source on how you have come about this analogy? In other words, where is your Scriptural evidence to support "a year for a prophetic day rule?" You have still not provided this information.

Jay Ross wrote:Mr. B., you kindly provided internet links to sites that hold to the literal understanding of 2,300 mornings and nights and I am sure that I can also search and find internet sites that hold to the year for a day understanding for Daniel 8:14. You links did not provide a balanced view but only pushed their opinion of what they believed was true.


Then Jay - if you can find such links, then please provide them. What I provided were links to those who have ideas as I have interpreted Scripture in a response to your comments for others to consider. I would suggest you do the same, and allow those who are reading your comments decide. I don't think a "balanced view" applies, as there is an absolute Truth which can be supported with Scripture - and Historical Evidence - then there are "opinions" which are often submitted in order to fit a certain "feeling; emotion; or End Time paradigm" and cannot be supported with either Scripture or Historical Evidence.

Jay Ross wrote:The Book of the Maccabees records the desecration of the Temple by Antiochus Epiphanes and the 2,300 days, that it took from the start to the finish of this revolt, is more of a coincidence than anything else. Satan has attempted to cause a change in God's timeline for future events such that they are hidden from most today by this event which started around 167BC


The Book of Maccabees is the Historical evidence that clearly supports Scripture - and what I have mentioned as it relates to 2,300 days verses the 2,300 years that you have suggested. This is why I have asked you to submit your source. Where is your evidence? As you have very clearly posted support for what I have mentioned. To say that a recorded Historical Fact, that had been previously prophesied by Scripture is a "coincident more than anything else" goes beyond any reasonable comprehension - IMHO; and further questions why the term "coincidence" is even used to justify your comment.

Additionally, I'm personally trying to understand why you have mentioned: "Satan has attempted to cause a change in God's timeline for future events such that they are hidden from today" - then reference 167BC? This even; is both Scriptural and historical, as it has been fulfilled by Historical evidence. So again, I can not understand why you have mentioned this, as it appears to justify how you personally have fit End Time Prophecy into your own understanding. Very respectfully, Prophecy is of no "private interpretation."

Jay Ross wrote:I could not agree more with your last paragraph where you said in part: -"I think we have to be very careful in discerning Bible Prophecy in discovering what has already been fulfilled, and what is literal verses what is metaphorical language." The question is whose yard stick do we use in discerning in what is literal and what is metaphorical language?


Great question - so the metaphorical "yard stick" you used in your question as it relates to discernment is Prayer and Confirmation by God. Again, Prophecy is of no private interpretation. If God has said it - most assuredly it WILL come to pass.

Jay Ross wrote:I am sure that there will be people who disagree with both of us as to how we interpret the scriptures through our studies of them.


Agreed - as there will be many people who can clearly discern fact from fiction - and that which is supported by Scripture, and even Historical evidence to rightly divide the World of God.

Let's Keep Christ on the Throne!
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Re: It's All About Israel

Postby Jay Ross on Mon Jan 11, 2021 8:07 pm

Mr. B. how we interpret scripture is important and it depends on our previous understanding of words and interpretations.

Let me cite two independent scriptural passages which tells us that during the third and the fourth day of the Lord as per Hosea and in Lamentations during the third and the fourth age the Lord had turned his back on Israel.

Hosea 6:1-3: - A Call to Repentance

6:
1 Come, and let us return to the Lord;
For He has torn, but He will heal us;
He has stricken, but He will bind us up.
2 After two days He will revive us;
On the third day He will raise us up,
That we may live in His sight.

3 Let us know,
Let us pursue the knowledge of the Lord.
His going forth is established as the morning;
He will come to us like the rain,
Like the latter and former rain to the earth.
NKJV

Lamentations 5:15-22

15 The joy of our heart has ceased;
Our dance has turned into mourning.
16 The crown has fallen from our head.
Woe to us, for we have sinned!
17 Because of this our heart is faint;
Because of these things our eyes grow dim;
18 Because of Mount Zion which is desolate,
With foxes walking about on it.

19 You, O Lord, remain forever;
Your throne from generation to generation.
20 Why do You forget us forever,
And forsake us for so long a time?
21 Turn us back to You, O Lord, and we will be restored;
Renew our days as of old,
22 Unless You have utterly rejected us,
And are very angry with us!
NKJV

Now in Lamentations where we have "from generation to generation" the Hebrew Root word H:1755 is best understood to have the meaning of "a revolution in time" such as an age, which has the same duration as the length of a Day of the Lord," which from my research is slightly longer than 1,000 solar years. We also need to understand that the English translations do not necessarily convey the context of the source Hebrew Text.

The above two scriptures indicate that the Lord has turned His back on Israel for a period of some 2,000 or so years from 4 BC when the Exodus 20:4-6 prophecy of the visitation of the fathers iniquities, over a period of two ages, from the birth of Isaac up and until the Birth of Christ, will then be be visited upon their children and their children's children for the same period of time, namely, for another 2,000 or so years.

Now we know that Isaac was born after 2,048 solar years had passed from the creation of Adam as he was born at the very beginning of the 2,049 year After Adam. From Isaac to King David, my research indicates there was another period of time of around 1,024 years and from King David to Christ there was another period of 1,024 years. Sadly we have many Old Testament Chronologies that are in error and Bishop Ussher's Chronology which is accepted by most has many errors in its calculations and assumptions.

Now if there is 2048 years between Adam and Isaac, and another 2,048 years between Isaac and Christ, then it is logical that there is another 2,048 years in which the visitation of the idolatrous iniquities of the fathers of Israel will be upon there children and their Children's children, before God will turn back towards Israel, during the Final Millennium Age.

Now because the year in which Christ was born is in question, the actual year in which all of Israel will be save is not really known but we know within a year or two as to when it will occur.

Now from the scriptures, we know that when a nation has been used by God to punish Israel that after the end of their domination over Israel, that God judges the Nations quickly. As of yet, I am not sure from the Historical records that the gentile Grecian Empire and subsequent nations that have been a part of the trampling of God's Sanctuary and His Earthly Hosts have yet been judged. It is my understanding that that judgement of the kings of the earth who have been a part of the trampling of God's Sanctuary and Hosts will occur at Armageddon in around 20-25 year time.

Now in Daniel 8, we are told that the Little Horn, which is also the same Little Horn of Daniel 7, will be given an army to do his bidding to trample the Sanctuary and God's earthly hosts. The little horn is a fallen angel and has been able to exercise his influence over multiply gentile nations for nearly 2,300 years now.

As I demonstrated in my previous posts, history has confirmed that the 2,300 years has been nearly completed and when it is then all of Israel will be saved.

It seems that we both have to wait for when Israel will all be save to clarify what I have been posting. If it does not occur as I have suggested, then you can dismiss what I have posted. However, if it does occur as I have been consistently suggesting, then it will demonstrate that you may have to re-evaluated your understanding. Sadly, I may not be around to see if Israel will be all saved at the time of the Armageddon Judgement as my toes may be pointing upwards.

Now, from a scriptural perspective, how is it that Daniel 9:24-27 come to an understanding of a number of years. Are not the understanding of these prophecies based on "the year for a day rule."

Shalom
Jay Ross
 
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Re: It's All About Israel

Postby slick on Tue Jan 12, 2021 5:31 am

Jay Ross,
Just a fun fact I knew Bill Lee Warner that you quote very well , the SOLA SCRIPTORA site was created and maintained by good friends of mine.
THE BATTLE RAGES TIL THE LION ROARS,
Clarence
slick
 
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Re: It's All About Israel

Postby Jay Ross on Tue Jan 12, 2021 1:14 pm

slick wrote:Jay Ross,
Just a fun fact I knew Bill Lee Warner that you quote very well , the SOLA SCRIPTORA site was created and maintained by good friends of mine.
THE BATTLE RAGES TIL THE LION ROARS,
Clarence


It is good that Bill Lee Warner's "teaching" is on the record from a historical perspective to show what was believed during the time period of his life. But much has happened since then, that turns what he has written on its head.

A small misunderstanding of the prophetic scriptures can skewer everything that we read and take us down paths that are not scriptural.

Many years ago, I too believed that the Fourth Segment of the Daniel 2 Statue prophecy was the Roman Empire, but in the last 20 or so years I have now come to a very different understanding.

I no longer accept that that the five beast of Daniel 7:1-12 can be humanised as has been our practice up and until now. What I was saying 10 or more years ago was that the Beasts of Daniel 7:1-12 exercised their influence over people groups, kingdoms, and empires, to display the respective beasts dominant characteristic by what they did. The fifth beast, the little horn also had influence over the other four beasts, two in particular, to do his bidding. I agree that we can identify the manifestations of the beasts through man's historical record, and how these people groups, kingdoms and empires ebbed and flowed in and out of the respective beasts influence and dominion. The beasts are fallen heavenly hosts, i.e. angels, and play told us this in Ephesians 6:12: - For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.

If we humanise the beasts of Daniel 7:1-12, then we attribute a human face to the beasts and think that their span of influence is limited to the time span of the person(s) who comes under the influence of the respective "beast" and because the person acting in accordance with the respective beasts wishes, then dies, we no longer believe that that particular beast has any influence over people. However, from when Daniel first penned Daniel 7, around 2,500 years ago, the time of the beasts judgement in heaven is drawing near and they will be judged at the same time as the kings of the earth on the earth and they will be imprisoned for many days before they are punished in the lake of fire.

Because we allow ourselves to become blinkered in what we seen, our understanding of the End Times is curtailed to what we are able to comprehend in our minds.

God is slowing revealing His truth to us, if we are willing to accept it on His terms and not on our terms and understandings.

Shalom
Jay Ross
 
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