Revelation 2:22 Tribulation?

Discussion and debate not related to prophecy.

Revelation 2:22 Tribulation?

Postby extravagantchristian on Thu Jan 10, 2019 5:14 pm

Revelation 2:22 Indeed I will cast her into a sickbed, and those who commit adultery with her into great tribulation, unless they repent of their deeds.


I've read this verse many times before but now I'm noticing the word "UNLESS"

It seems to be saying that the Great Tribulation can somehow be avoided.

How could it be avoided? (I'm not a pre-trib person)

I can only think of 2 ways.

Either the entire Great Tribulation could be somehow postponed?
Maybe, because Malachi says something similar:
Malachi 4:6 And he will turn The hearts of the fathers to the children, And the hearts of the children to their fathers, Lest I come and strike the earth with a curse.”


Or

Maybe there will be a pre-trib rapture?

If so then it would have to happen AFTER the man of sin is revealed:
2 Thessalonians 2:3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition,
Matthew 1:22
So all this was done that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the Lord through the prophets
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Re: Revelation 2:22 Tribulation?

Postby Mr Baldy on Thu Jan 10, 2019 6:05 pm

extravagantchristian wrote:
Revelation 2:22 Indeed I will cast her into a sickbed, and those who commit adultery with her into great tribulation, unless they repent of their deeds.


I've read this verse many times before but now I'm noticing the word "UNLESS"

It seems to be saying that the Great Tribulation can somehow be avoided.

How could it be avoided? (I'm not a pre-trib person)

I can only think of 2 ways.

Either the entire Great Tribulation could be somehow postponed?
Maybe, because Malachi says something similar:
Malachi 4:6 And he will turn The hearts of the fathers to the children, And the hearts of the children to their fathers, Lest I come and strike the earth with a curse.”


Or

Maybe there will be a pre-trib rapture?

If so then it would have to happen AFTER the man of sin is revealed:
2 Thessalonians 2:3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition,


Hi EC,

I think that you may be limiting your thinking in this matter...….

First - Revelation 2:22 has nothing to do with the Rapture - no matter what man-man theory one believes, and nor does Malachi 4:6 for that matter.

Christians can still be here on Earth while Great Tribulation is going on - yet not experience it directly as far as the total impact; but being kept through it. An example is the situation Noah and his family were in. Noah and his family went through the Great Flood; experienced it indirectly - in that their resources may have been limited - but were never impacted by it as far as death. The Great Flood was a Judgment of God.

Secondly - you mention a "Pre-Tribulation" Rapture and unite it with 2 Thessalonians 2:3 - which specifically mentions the Day of the Lord and our gathering unto Him. Well according to the "Pre-Tribulation" Rapture camp of believers, they will never see the "man of sin" because they will have been Raptured 7 years prior to his revelation.

Well, I very sincerely hope you see the error of the Pre-Tribulation Rapture belief - in that you have supplied the very Scripture which refutes this man-made idea.
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Re: Revelation 2:22 Tribulation?

Postby mark s on Fri Jan 11, 2019 8:49 am

Sounds to me that there may be a way to not be here for the great tribulation. If that's what this verse is speaking of, then some won't be there.

When you consider whether there may be a population that escapes the persecutions of antichrist, there is, one group only named in Scripture, the Jews who flee to the wilderness.

Everyone else is under his power. IF the church were here, they would be handed over to antichrist like everyone else. No special protections.

The plague of locusts, for instance, is upon everyone who does not have God's seal, IE, the 144,000. I sure hope I'm not there for that! 5 months of torment so severe everyone will be wishing they could just die! Everyone impacted, including Christians.

But when the Son of Man comes, will He find faith on the earth??

Then there is Rev 3:10, I will keep you out of time of testing . . . the only way to be kept out of any particular time within a time continuum is to not be in that continuum.

Sure does get the mind going!

Much love!
mark
ειπεν αυτη ο ιησους εγω ειμι η αναστασις και η ζωη ο πιστευων εις εμε καν αποθανη ζησεται
. . . saying to her Jesus, I AM the resurrection and the life, the one believing into Me even dying shall live . . .
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Re: Revelation 2:22 Tribulation?

Postby shorttribber on Sun Jan 13, 2019 8:54 am

mark s wrote:Sounds to me that there may be a way to not be here for the great tribulation. If that's what this verse is speaking of, then some won't be there.

When you consider whether there may be a population that escapes the persecutions of antichrist, there is, one group only named in Scripture, the Jews who flee to the wilderness.

Everyone else is under his power. IF the church were here, they would be handed over to antichrist like everyone else. No special protections.

The plague of locusts, for instance, is upon everyone who does not have God's seal, IE, the 144,000. I sure hope I'm not there for that! 5 months of torment so severe everyone will be wishing they could just die! Everyone impacted, including Christians.

But when the Son of Man comes, will He find faith on the earth??

Then there is Rev 3:10, I will keep you out of time of testing . . . the only way to be kept out of any particular time within a time continuum is to not be in that continuum.

Sure does get the mind going!

Much love!
mark


Again I will mention that my time to post is very limited.....but I noticed some things that I will put on another thread that I began about a year or so back.

The other thread link...
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=70166



The reason I wanted to post this part here first is because I found some of these new things while investigating the meaning of the "Seal of God" regarding what marks had posted.

Please take notice of the Chapter and verse numbers below.......Please, look closely....take your time, and notice their Relationship to each other.

.........................................Duet 11:18*18:11 Rev......................................

Deuteronomy 11:18

Therefore shall ye lay up these my words in your heart and in your soul, and bind them for a sign upon your hand, that they may be as frontlets between your eyes.


Now, please keep the following words, AND Promise in mind.
Sealed until the day of Redemption


...........................................Rev 18:11*11:18 Rev................................................




Rev 18:11
And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more:
.............15 The merchants of these things, which were made rich by her, shall stand afar off for the fear of her torment, weeping and wailing,
.................. for in one hour is she made desolate.
20 Rejoice over her, thou heaven, and ye holy apostles and prophets; for God hath avenged you on her.
........................24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.


Rev 11:18
18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.








10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
...................11.............. And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.




Sealed until the day of Redemption


11 And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth
their merchandise any more:
.............15 The merchants of these things, which were made rich by her, shall stand afar off for the fear of her torment, weeping and wailing,
.................. for in one hour is she made desolate.
20 Rejoice over her, thou heaven, and ye holy apostles and prophets; for God hath avenged you on her.
........................24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.





18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.



Deuteronomy 11:18
Therefore shall ye lay up these my words in your heart and in your soul, and bind them for a sign upon your hand, that they may be as frontlets between your eyes.

Exodus 13:9,16
And it shall be for a sign unto thee upon thine hand, and for a memorial between thine eyes, that the LORD'S law may be in thy mouth: for with a strong hand hath the LORD brought thee out of Egypt…





While searching around I found this explanation of the "Seal of God"............and it is very helpful.
............................................................................................................................................
What is the seal of God?

seal of God
Question: "What is the seal of God?"

Answer: There are five verses in the Bible that refer to a “seal of God” or an object or person sealed by God (John 6:27; 2 Timothy 2:19; Revelation 6:9; 7:2; and 9:4). The word sealed in the New Testament comes from a Greek word that means “to stamp with a private mark” in the interest of keeping something secret or protecting or preserving the sealed object. Seals were used for official business: a Roman centurion, for instance, might have sealed a document that was meant only for the eyes of his superior. If the seal were broken, the one receiving the document would know that the letter had been tampered with or read by someone other than the sealer.

Revelation 7:3–4 and 9:4 refer to group of people who have the seal of God, and thus His protection, during the tribulation. During the fifth trumpet judgment, locusts from the Abyss attack the people of the earth with “power like that of scorpions” (Revelation 9:3). However, these demonic locusts are limited in what they can harm: “They were told not to harm the grass of the earth or any plant or tree, but only those people who did not have the seal of God on their foreheads” (Revelation 9:4). The individuals who are marked by God are preserved. The seal of God during the tribulation is the direct opposite of the mark of the beast, which identifies people as followers of Satan (Revelation 13:16–18).

Paul speaks of the seal of God in the context of foundational truth. He tells Timothy that false doctrines are circulating and some people are trying to destroy the faith of believers. Then he offers this encouragement: “Nevertheless, God’s solid foundation stands firm, sealed with this inscription: ‘The Lord knows those who are his,’ and, ‘Everyone who confesses the name of the Lord must turn away from wickedness’” (2 Timothy 2:19). The picture is of a building’s foundation that has been inscribed with two statements giving the purpose of the building. The church’s foundation has been laid (Ephesians 2:20), and the eternal “seal” or inscription sums up the two aspects of faith—trust in God and departure from sin (see Mark 1:15). The passage goes on to describe the contents of the great house so inscribed: vessels for honorable use and those for dishonorable use. “If anyone cleanses himself from what is dishonorable, he will be a vessel for honorable use, set apart as holy, useful to the master of the house, ready for every good work” (2 Timothy 2:21, ESV).

Jesus Christ bore the seal of God: “On him God the Father has placed his seal of approval” (John 6:27). Those who trust in Jesus also possess the seal of God, which is the Holy Spirit: “You also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession” (Ephesians 1:13–14). It is good to know that God’s children are sealed, secure, and sustained amid the wickedness of this transitory world.

............................................................................................................................................
The Wisest men have changed their Counsels and Resolves upon second thoughts, much more upon experience, and approaching evils not at first discovered. Rev. Herbert Croft, 1675

Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counsellors there is safety.

Find seven years of tribulation plainly stated in the Bible.
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Re: Revelation 2:22 Tribulation?

Postby mark s on Mon Jan 14, 2019 8:52 am

It looks like this is duplicating the other post, is that right? Can we stick to one place?

Much love!
Mark
ειπεν αυτη ο ιησους εγω ειμι η αναστασις και η ζωη ο πιστευων εις εμε καν αποθανη ζησεται
. . . saying to her Jesus, I AM the resurrection and the life, the one believing into Me even dying shall live . . .
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