yet not I, but Christ . . .

Discussion and debate not related to prophecy.

yet not I, but Christ . . .

Postby mark s on Wed Oct 11, 2017 4:44 pm

I have been crucified with Christ, and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. And that which I now live in the flesh, I live through faith from the Son of God, the One having loved me and having given up Himself for me.


http://biblehub.com/blb/galatians/2.htm

Let's talk about this verse. What does it mean?

This is quoted from the "Berean Literal Bible". I'm not familiar with this translation, but I am familiar with this passage, and I believe this translation is a good literal translation.

One thing I'd like to point out to start with is that where it says, "I live through faith from the Son of God", "faith from" is in what's called the Genitive case, which means this is faith that is either possessed by, or comes from, Jesus. It's His faith. In us. Giving us life.

How does it feel to be dead?

In the Greek OT, God's Word through Habbakuk is translated as saying, "the righteous ones, by my faith, they live."

There is Peter:

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the One according to His great mercy having begotten us again to a living hope, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ out from the dead, 4 to an inheritance imperishable and undefiled and unfading, being reserved in the heavens for you, 5 who are being guarded by the power of God through faith, for the salvation ready to be revealed in the last time,


http://biblehub.com/blb/1_peter/1.htm

God's power is protecting us for our salvation, and the motive force is faith. Faith is God's power expressed through our minds and hearts. It protects us. It gives us life.

How much faith does Jesus have? His faith is our life.

What does it mean to be alive in Christ? To receive life in constant steady forever supply from God?

What does it mean when Jesus says, the devil comes to steal, kill, and destroy, but I have come that you might have life, and that more abundantly?

How does this impact the reality that God lives in us, that His life in us is our life? From where does this abundance of life come? How do we experience this abundant life?

Crucified with Christ.

Romans talks about dead to the world, dead to the flesh - the body, dead to the Law. What is the significance to these things?

What does it mean to be dead to the world/law/body and alive in Christ?

Much love,
Mark
ειπεν αυτη ο ιησους εγω ειμι η αναστασις και η ζωη ο πιστευων εις εμε καν αποθανη ζησεται
. . . saying to her Jesus, I AM the resurrection and the life, the one believing into Me even dying shall live . . .
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Re: yet not I, but Christ . . .

Postby Resurrection Torchlight on Wed Oct 11, 2017 9:22 pm

You have asked a lot of questions....I must take time to ponder :humm:

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Re: yet not I, but Christ . . .

Postby shorttribber on Wed Oct 11, 2017 9:48 pm

Resurrection Torchlight wrote:You have asked a lot of questions....I must take time to ponder

That's very true.
mark s wrote:What does it mean to be dead to the world/law/body and alive in Christ?

Marks summary of these questions were in this sentence I think.

The longer answers to the distinct questions will be a Wonderful Communion for us.

The shorter answer to them all is, Koinonia.

:banana: :hugs: :spin: :hugs: :banana:
The Wisest men have changed their Counsels and Resolves upon second thoughts, much more upon experience, and approaching evils not at first discovered. Rev. Herbert Croft, 1675

Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counsellors there is safety.

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Re: yet not I, but Christ . . .

Postby shorttribber on Wed Oct 11, 2017 10:10 pm

Just thought of something. Dead people can't hear but One Thing apparently. Only the Voice of the Resurrection and the Life can be heard.

Dead people can't remember any offence.

Dead People can only Hear when God Speaks Life to them, and Christ is that Life.....There is no Life in us apart from Christ in us. Acts 17:28
The Wisest men have changed their Counsels and Resolves upon second thoughts, much more upon experience, and approaching evils not at first discovered. Rev. Herbert Croft, 1675

Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counsellors there is safety.

Find seven years of tribulation plainly stated in the Bible.
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Re: yet not I, but Christ . . .

Postby mark s on Thu Oct 12, 2017 8:14 am

shorttribber wrote:
The longer answers to the distinct questions will be a Wonderful Communion for us.


Hi ST,

I'm curious, you've stated this as a "will be", but doesn't the Bible say these things have already happened? Take Romans and sin/law/flesh. It says we've died to these. Isn't this about now?

Much love,
Mark
ειπεν αυτη ο ιησους εγω ειμι η αναστασις και η ζωη ο πιστευων εις εμε καν αποθανη ζησεται
. . . saying to her Jesus, I AM the resurrection and the life, the one believing into Me even dying shall live . . .
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Re: yet not I, but Christ . . .

Postby shorttribber on Thu Oct 12, 2017 8:31 am

mark s wrote:
shorttribber wrote:
The longer answers to the distinct questions will be a Wonderful Communion for us.


Hi ST,

I'm curious, you've stated this as a "will be", but doesn't the Bible say these things have already happened? Take Romans and sin/law/flesh. It says we've died to these. Isn't this about now?

Much love,
Mark

It Is now, and THOSE LAWS do and Will become Perfected IN US. Now we are both Dead to sin (but we still sin) AND Alive in Christ (we still live and move in Christ Only). There remains a Perfection of our Stature individually, and as a People of God.
The Wisest men have changed their Counsels and Resolves upon second thoughts, much more upon experience, and approaching evils not at first discovered. Rev. Herbert Croft, 1675

Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counsellors there is safety.

Find seven years of tribulation plainly stated in the Bible.
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Re: yet not I, but Christ . . .

Postby mark s on Thu Oct 12, 2017 8:53 am

I have been crucified with Christ, and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. And that which I now live in the flesh, I live through faith from the Son of God, the One having loved me and having given up Himself for me.

"I have been crucified with Christ."

Like in Romans 6, when we are baptized, it is into his death. We are buried with him.

In Galatians, the word is literally co-crucified. It speaks of us both hanging there together on the cross. I was hung on a cross, then taken down dead.

Obviously this did not occur in a material fashion, or at least not in a memorable way.

But equally obvious, it did occur. And I no longer live. I died. They took me off the cross dead, and laid me in a stone tomb. Dead.

I no longer live.

"and that which I now live in the flesh . . ."

Hey! Wait a minute buddy! You said you were dead. What do mean, that which I now live in the flesh??

Who am I talking to here? The dead guy? Or is there some other guy?

I no longer live. But Christ lives in me.

There IS some other guy!

And what a guy! It's Jesus!

"And that which I now live in the flesh, I live through faith from the Son of God"

So . . . it's you . . . but it's not you . . . It's Jesus . . . but it's still you!?

My life is gone. It's over. Jesus' life has come to me, and now, though I am dead, in Him, I am alive! So long as Jesus lives, I live! The kind of life Jesus lives is the kind of life I have, since my live is His life in me.

Think of Ephesians 4, "Put on the new man, who is created patterned after God in righteousness and true holiness".

This new man. Jesus in me. A new creature, who did not exist before, and yet is me. But a much different me! A me who is unified - unified, think about that a minute - with Jesus Christ! A new man, who is righteous, truly holy! And now I can have that life, it's replaced the old life.

What can be more transformative??

I know what.

Realizing it's true.

Our walk is by faith, and not by sight.

We live according to what we believe, not according to what we see.

You know, this works 2 ways. We see the ways of the world, the ways of the flesh, but we live according to the ways of God, since that's what we believe to be real, right, and true.

But we can also see what God has done in our lives . . . what God has done in other people's lives . . . we see what He wrote in His Book . . . but if we believe that doesn't mean me . . . I'm not even trying to live that life! I don't think it's there for me.

I'm too disobedient.
I'm not worth it.
There's nothing I can do to change.
I've always failed before.
That won't happen until __________.
10,000 other reasons to doubt the truth.

Do we believe this passage?

And if we do, what does that mean to our lives, to realize, understand, that Jesus is expressing Himself through us, and this expression of His life is what transforms ours.

Are there limits to this?

Much love,
Mark
ειπεν αυτη ο ιησους εγω ειμι η αναστασις και η ζωη ο πιστευων εις εμε καν αποθανη ζησεται
. . . saying to her Jesus, I AM the resurrection and the life, the one believing into Me even dying shall live . . .
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Re: yet not I, but Christ . . .

Postby mark s on Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:02 am

shorttribber wrote:It Is now, and THOSE LAWS do and Will become Perfected IN US. Now we are both Dead to sin (but we still sin) AND Alive in Christ (we still live and move in Christ Only). There remains a Perfection of our Stature individually, and as a People of God.


Hi ST,

What I'm saying is that as I read the Scripture, I read that these things have already been done. So I'm wondering why you are thinking of them as yet to come?

Yes, there remains a "perfection" if you will, the Bible calls it the redemption of our bodies, Romans 8 I think talks about that.

But my question to you is this.

You wrote, those laws do and will become perfected in us.

I truly fail to see how this statement relates to the doctrine that we have been crucified together with Christ, and that as a result, we are dead to sin, dead to the world, dead to the law, and dead to our own bodies. We are alive in Christ.

The Bible teaches these as current realities, based on past transactions. Aren't these already perfected in us? I've listed passages that teach that this is already a done deal. Is it even possible to be "partly dead"?

Now . . . for a person who reads the Bible . . . reads about a life of faith . . . a life of love and victory . . . and who believes they simply cannot get there from here . . . we need reasons . . . we find reasons . . . are they the right reasons?

Much love,
Mark
ειπεν αυτη ο ιησους εγω ειμι η αναστασις και η ζωη ο πιστευων εις εμε καν αποθανη ζησεται
. . . saying to her Jesus, I AM the resurrection and the life, the one believing into Me even dying shall live . . .
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Re: yet not I, but Christ . . .

Postby shorttribber on Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:29 am

mark s wrote:Yes, there remains a "perfection" if you will, the Bible calls it the redemption of our bodies, Romans 8 I think talks about that.

I think that perfection is plainly described in Eph 4....
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

mark s wrote:You wrote, those laws do and will become perfected in us..................
I truly fail to see how this statement relates to the doctrine that we have been crucified together with Christ, and that as a result, we are dead to sin, dead to the world, dead to the law, and dead to our own bodies. We are alive in Christ.

How can you Not See it? :dunno:

Look at this way.....a Restoration project is just That, a Project. It is not Finished the day it is begun, Be it One Person, or the Many that are contained in That Project.

mark s wrote:The Bible teaches these as current realities, based on past transactions. Aren't these already perfected in us?

No, these are not yet perfected in us.....what do you do with Eph 4?

mark s wrote:Is it even possible to be "partly dead"?


Is it possible to be Spirit and Flesh at the same time? You know the answer.

mark s wrote:Now . . . for a person who reads the Bible . . . reads about a life of faith . . . a life of love and victory . . . and who believes they simply cannot get there from here . . . we need reasons . . . we find reasons . . . are they the right reasons?

We find there is a Season and time for Everything under the sun...........Even Perfection.

I find that time in Eph 4....... and all things are waiting in Expectation for it....whether realized Now or not.
The Wisest men have changed their Counsels and Resolves upon second thoughts, much more upon experience, and approaching evils not at first discovered. Rev. Herbert Croft, 1675

Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counsellors there is safety.

Find seven years of tribulation plainly stated in the Bible.
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Re: yet not I, but Christ . . .

Postby mark s on Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:08 am

shorttribber wrote:
mark s wrote:The Bible teaches these as current realities, based on past transactions. Aren't these already perfected in us?

No, these are not yet perfected in us.....what do you do with Eph 4?

mark s wrote:Is it even possible to be "partly dead"?


Is it possible to be Spirit and Flesh at the same time? You know the answer.


Hi ST,

I'd really like to put a fine point on this one . . . You've answered my question with a question.

My question, is it possible to be partly dead? I would answer no, it is not possible. One is either dead or alive.

Your question, is it possible to be Spirit and Flesh at the same time? You have said I know the answer, but I don't really understand the question.

Are we flesh? Or do we live in flesh. C.S. Lewis put it this way. We are not a body. We have a body.

Now, If I go with what I think you are asking, can our lives reflect both spiritual and a fleshy behavior? Yes, I find they do.

But is it possible to be spirit and flesh at the same time? I think we were flesh, and we've been recreated spirit.

Let me ask your question in what I think is the same question, just asked in a different way:

Are we both sinners and saints?

Can a sinner be a saint?

Can the unholy be holy?

I don't think so.

I think we were sinners, and now we are saints. But we don't realize what that means. And so we don't expect to remain walking in the spirit. We don't think we can. Or that we will. And since we don't expect to, we don't.

I don't blame anyone. Well, I do. So many pastors and teachers who teach other things. OK, that's a different story, I'm staying away from that. God will deal with them.

mark s wrote:Now . . . for a person who reads the Bible . . . reads about a life of faith . . . a life of love and victory . . . and who believes they simply cannot get there from here . . . we need reasons . . . we find reasons . . . are they the right reasons?

We find there is a Season and time for Everything under the sun...........Even Perfection.


Is there a season for sin in our lives? Is there some part of our day that is ordained that we will sin? Some hour in which God has determined to withdraw His power, since it's not time for my abundance yet. That's not til 3:00 pm.

But it sounds like we're talking about different things. I'm talking about a personal life of faith in Christ, where the fruit of the spirit is our daily life.

Are you truly saying that God wants us misbehaving, corrupted by the world, fearful, divided, all of that? I know you can't mean that!

But are you saying that this fruitful life, the abundance Jesus promised, isn't for now? Isn't for every believer? Isn't meant for me today, sitting here at my desk? Isn't meant to be lived always, today, tomorrow, every hour, every minute?

Much love,
Mark
ειπεν αυτη ο ιησους εγω ειμι η αναστασις και η ζωη ο πιστευων εις εμε καν αποθανη ζησεται
. . . saying to her Jesus, I AM the resurrection and the life, the one believing into Me even dying shall live . . .
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Re: yet not I, but Christ . . .

Postby shorttribber on Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:34 am

:lol: Wow, I've nevr seen that before! On my computer you have made a post mark, but it has Me as the Poster....That needs to be fixed I think.


May be a sign of how much we are actually in more Unity already than we realize! :lol:
The Wisest men have changed their Counsels and Resolves upon second thoughts, much more upon experience, and approaching evils not at first discovered. Rev. Herbert Croft, 1675

Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counsellors there is safety.

Find seven years of tribulation plainly stated in the Bible.
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Re: yet not I, but Christ . . .

Postby shorttribber on Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:47 am

marks wrote:Do you know you still can?

:banana: Yes. :banana:
The Wisest men have changed their Counsels and Resolves upon second thoughts, much more upon experience, and approaching evils not at first discovered. Rev. Herbert Croft, 1675

Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counsellors there is safety.

Find seven years of tribulation plainly stated in the Bible.
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Re: yet not I, but Christ . . .

Postby mark s on Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:56 am

shorttribber wrote::lol: Wow, I've nevr seen that before! On my computer you have made a post mark, but it has Me as the Poster....That needs to be fixed I think.


May be a sign of how much we are actually in more Unity already than we realize! :lol:


Hi ST,

I'm reposting below, hopefully things will show correctly!

:blondmoment:

Wait . . . is that PC?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

mark s wrote:I think we were sinners, and now we are saints. But we don't realize what that means. And so we don't expect to remain walking in the spirit. We don't think we can. Or that we will. And since we don't expect to, we don't.

I think you may be not understanding that I don't think that way. It has happened to me before....for thirty days. Once I made a post about what happened, the testimony I shared regarding that thirty day period.


I remember you posting about that.

The Spirit of God Moves as HE Will....to do this or that, but I do not think we are able to control How or When He chooses to LIVE and Move In us in His Fullness.


But what about when he tells us that he always lives in us? What about when He makes blanket statements to put on the new man, to stop acting the old way, and to walk in the spirit? Doesn't He mean it?

Somehow, and in Some way I think, I had Become available for what He Did when that happened. I will not entertain the thought that it had Anything at all to do with My Ability though Mark.


Of course not. That's a huge point. We don't not sin by trying to not sin. We not sin by focusing on God.

There is the possibility that My Desire became My Will, but Only HE could MAKE THAT Happen.


What would make us think that God has not given us the ability to live primarily without sin? That He hasn't already made that happen? To have the vast portion of our life experience described in the fruit of the spirit?

mark s wrote:Are you truly saying that God wants us misbehaving, corrupted by the world, fearful, divided, all of that? I know you can't mean that!


To a degree, He has allowed that, yes. I have told my son to stop running in the yard without shoes on because he will find a thistle, he finds one surely in time.
I allow him to run for a while after I have told him to stop........I Want him to learn that What I Say is True.

I also want him to learn that if he obeys Truth He is Walking in the Spirit.


He allows much, yes, but is it God's desire for me to sin today? I don't think so. Has He given me the instruction to be holy, even as He is holy, but left out the power to do it?

I want my son to learn to obey, but I want him to not step on a thistle to learn it. I don't want him injured.

mark s wrote:Is there a season for sin in our lives?

Yes, I believe so, but it is not a Pleasant season.


And this is truly God's intent?

mark s wrote:Is there some part of our day that is ordained that we will sin?

Ordained? No. Allowed? Yes.


Allowed. But why? Stay tuned. You're already at the destination.

mark s wrote:Some hour in which God has determined to withdraw His power, since it's not time for my abundance yet.

He does never "Withdraw" His Power, we only do not always Submit to it.

His Power is Love.


And there it is.

His power is always there, we don't always submit to it. Allow it to fill us. Allow Jesus to live through us.

mark s wrote:But are you saying that this fruitful life, the abundance Jesus promised, isn't for now? Isn't for every believer? Isn't meant for me today, sitting here at my desk? Isn't meant to be lived always, today, tomorrow, every hour, every minute?

No, that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying we have yet to Understand WHAT Pure Communion WITH Christ IS. We cheat ourselves because of Unbelief.


This is my goal, that we stop cheating ourselves through unbelief, and in this you are my true brother!

Most Christians Don't Believe they CAN Walk in the Spirit and Not Sin....therefore it is not Done.


This is the error I would like to correct.

Do you believe it is possible to Not Sin for Ten minutes?


Yes.

Do you believe it is possible to Not Sin for Ten hours?


Yes.

How about Ten Days?


Yes.

How about many more days than that?


I don't know. Academically speaking, all of them.

I not only believe it, I know it.


Do you know you still can?

Much love,
Mark
ειπεν αυτη ο ιησους εγω ειμι η αναστασις και η ζωη ο πιστευων εις εμε καν αποθανη ζησεται
. . . saying to her Jesus, I AM the resurrection and the life, the one believing into Me even dying shall live . . .
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Re: yet not I, but Christ . . .

Postby shorttribber on Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:01 pm

mark s wrote:Do you know you still can?


:banana: Yes. :banana:
The Wisest men have changed their Counsels and Resolves upon second thoughts, much more upon experience, and approaching evils not at first discovered. Rev. Herbert Croft, 1675

Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counsellors there is safety.

Find seven years of tribulation plainly stated in the Bible.
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Re: yet not I, but Christ . . .

Postby shorttribber on Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:04 pm

mark s wrote:Wait . . . is that PC?

I don't understand :bag:
The Wisest men have changed their Counsels and Resolves upon second thoughts, much more upon experience, and approaching evils not at first discovered. Rev. Herbert Croft, 1675

Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counsellors there is safety.

Find seven years of tribulation plainly stated in the Bible.
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Re: yet not I, but Christ . . .

Postby mark s on Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:34 pm

Politically Correct.
ειπεν αυτη ο ιησους εγω ειμι η αναστασις και η ζωη ο πιστευων εις εμε καν αποθανη ζησεται
. . . saying to her Jesus, I AM the resurrection and the life, the one believing into Me even dying shall live . . .
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Re: yet not I, but Christ . . .

Postby shorttribber on Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:39 pm

mark s wrote:Politically Correct.

Oh :mrgreen: ok :bag:
The Wisest men have changed their Counsels and Resolves upon second thoughts, much more upon experience, and approaching evils not at first discovered. Rev. Herbert Croft, 1675

Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counsellors there is safety.

Find seven years of tribulation plainly stated in the Bible.
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Re: yet not I, but Christ . . .

Postby shorttribber on Sat Oct 14, 2017 2:18 pm

I'm surprised that others haven't shared their ideas on this mark, hope there will be more participation on this subject.

:hugs:
The Wisest men have changed their Counsels and Resolves upon second thoughts, much more upon experience, and approaching evils not at first discovered. Rev. Herbert Croft, 1675

Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counsellors there is safety.

Find seven years of tribulation plainly stated in the Bible.
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Re: yet not I, but Christ . . .

Postby Abiding in His Word on Sat Oct 14, 2017 3:18 pm

shorttribber wrote:I'm surprised that others haven't shared their ideas on this mark, hope there will be more participation on this subject.


hmm...I would have participated but it seems to have gotten overly complicated imho.

I'm a stickler for context and within the context of Galatians 2, I see Paul refuting those who sought to bring them into subjection to the Law because of the liberty they had observed in believers.

Paul seems to refer to being dead relative to the Law as opposed to the (abundant) life (and liberty) Christ Jesus gives us.

So to me, it's a rather simple comparison to the death the law brings to the life Jesus brings.

:dunno:

Am I over simplifying it?
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Re: yet not I, but Christ . . .

Postby Resurrection Torchlight on Sat Oct 14, 2017 3:19 pm

I knew if I waited long enough Mark would tell us the answers

And there it is.

His power is always there, we don't always submit to it. Allow it to fill us. Allow Jesus to live through us.



I think Paul sums it up good here:
Romans 8:1–4
1 Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death.
3 For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh,
4 so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.



And I especially love this passage- it is truly "Mind blowing"

1 Corinthians 2:12–16
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may know the things freely given to us by God,
13 which things we also speak, not in words taught by human wisdom, but in those taught by the Spirit, combining spiritual thoughts with spiritual words.
14 But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised.
15 But he who is spiritual appraises all things, yet he himself is appraised by no one.
16 For WHO HAS KNOWN THE MIND OF THE LORD, THAT HE WILL INSTRUCT HIM? But we have the mind of Christ.


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Re: yet not I, but Christ . . .

Postby shorttribber on Sat Oct 14, 2017 4:53 pm

Abiding in His Word wrote:
shorttribber wrote:I'm surprised that others haven't shared their ideas on this mark, hope there will be more participation on this subject.

hmm...I would have participated but it seems to have gotten overly complicated imho. I'm a stickler for context and within the context of Galatians 2, I see Paul refuting those who sought to bring them into subjection to the Law because of the liberty they had observed in believers. Paul seems to refer to being dead relative to the Law as opposed to the (abundant) life (and liberty) Christ Jesus gives us. So to me, it's a rather simple comparison to the death the law brings to the life Jesus brings. Am I over simplifying it?


I don't think of obeying Christ as being obedient to the Law of Moses Abiding. the obedience to Christ is to Love God, Period.
The Law of Love in Christ does not Require a Written law for me to follow.
We Will Not Sin when we do these Two things......
1. Love Christ.
2. Walk in the Spirit.

When we walk in the Spirit...we ARE Loving Christ.

When we sin, can I say it this way.....we Are Not Loving Christ.

If any will disagree with that statement, then a good read of 1 Corinthians 13 is in order.

How then do we continuously Not Sin? How do we Continuously Love Christ/God every second, at every moment?

As mark first said, it's by Christ's Faith.
It's to Allow the Will of the Father to be done...and not Our Will be done.

How exactly that is accomplished is not all that simple I don't think.



Keeping this verse in mind from 1Cor 13....
10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

Let's compare this one...
Eph 4.....
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
The Wisest men have changed their Counsels and Resolves upon second thoughts, much more upon experience, and approaching evils not at first discovered. Rev. Herbert Croft, 1675

Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counsellors there is safety.

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Re: yet not I, but Christ . . .

Postby Abiding in His Word on Sat Oct 14, 2017 5:08 pm

shorttribber wrote:I don't think of obeying Christ as being obedient to the Law of Moses Abiding. the obedience to Christ is to Love God, Period.
The Law of Love in Christ does not Require a Written law for me to follow.
We Will Not Sin when we do these Two things......
1. Love Christ.
2. Walk in the Spirit.


Are we still talking about the verse Mark presented in his first post?

I have been crucified with Christ, and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. And that which I now live in the flesh, I live through faith from the Son of God, the One having loved me and having given up Himself for me.

:humm:
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Re: yet not I, but Christ . . .

Postby shorttribber on Sat Oct 14, 2017 5:28 pm

Abiding in His Word wrote:Are we still talking about the verse Mark presented in his first post?
I have been crucified with Christ, and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. And that which I now live in the flesh, I live through faith from the Son of God, the One having loved me and having given up Himself for me.


I don't think I've wondered from the main topic Abiding.....

mark s wrote:What does it mean to be dead to the world/law/body and alive in Christ?

Mark summed up his thoughts in this short sentence above.

so I have mentioned the following...
shorttribber wrote:I don't think of obeying Christ as being obedient to the Law of Moses Abiding. the obedience to Christ is to Love God, Period. The Law of Love in Christ does not Require a Written law for me to follow. We Will Not Sin when we do these Two things......1. Love Christ.2. Walk in the Spirit.


I mentioned that because you had said the following Abiding...
Abiding in His Word wrote:I'm a stickler for context and within the context of Galatians 2, I see Paul refuting those who sought to bring them into subjection to the Law because of the liberty they had observed in believers.
The Wisest men have changed their Counsels and Resolves upon second thoughts, much more upon experience, and approaching evils not at first discovered. Rev. Herbert Croft, 1675

Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counsellors there is safety.

Find seven years of tribulation plainly stated in the Bible.
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Re: yet not I, but Christ . . .

Postby Abiding in His Word on Sat Oct 14, 2017 6:48 pm

Thanks, ST. I evidently am misunderstanding the focus of the thread and so I'll just continue reading so I can get on track.
:mrgreen:
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Re: yet not I, but Christ . . .

Postby shorttribber on Sat Oct 14, 2017 7:28 pm

Abiding in His Word wrote:Thanks, ST. I evidently am misunderstanding the focus of the thread and so I'll just continue reading so I can get on track.
:mrgreen:

:hugs: :spin: :hugs:
The Wisest men have changed their Counsels and Resolves upon second thoughts, much more upon experience, and approaching evils not at first discovered. Rev. Herbert Croft, 1675

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Re: yet not I, but Christ . . .

Postby mark s on Mon Oct 16, 2017 8:50 am

shorttribber wrote:
When we walk in the Spirit...we ARE Loving Christ.


Hi ST,

I'd put it this way.

When we are loving Christ, we are walking in the Spirit.

How then do we continuously Not Sin? How do we Continuously Love Christ/God every second, at every moment?

As mark first said, it's by Christ's Faith.
It's to Allow the Will of the Father to be done...and not Our Will be done.

How exactly that is accomplished is not all that simple I don't think.


For me . . . this IS the topic.

Or, more exactly, how then do we continuously live walking in the Spirit? Because if we walk in the Spirit, the we do not do the works of the flesh/body.

Keeping this verse in mind from 1Cor 13....
10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

Let's compare this one...
Eph 4.....
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:


I know you keep coming back to this, and I didn't want to get too sidetracked, but I'll show you why I don't think this means what you think it means.

In that passage:

11 And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, 12 for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ, 13 till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ; 14 that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting, 15 but, speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into Him who is the head—Christ— 16 from whom the whole body, joined and knit together by what every joint supplies, according to the effective working by which every part does its share, causes growth of the body for the edifying of itself in love.


Ephesians 4 NKJV

Til we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man. This isn't a completed state. This is the point at which we're no longer children, but that we continue to grow up in all things into Him who is the head, Christ. And we are part of the means through whom Jesus supplies the needs of the body, causing growth as the body builds itself together in love.

This is describing a state of Christian maturity where we can all begin to work together to build each other up. I don't see this as describing an idealized state of the Church just before Christ's return.

But regardless of how you understand this passage, I don't think it detracts from the notion of daily holiness within the normal Christian life.

Let's go with your understanding for the moment. Let's say this does describe an idealized stated of development of the Church, a special dispensation just before the return of Jesus. While it may mean that we all get brought to the same state, that does not mean we have to wait until then before we have a daily life of holiness.

I'm going to break off at this point, and pick up again back on my main thought.

Much love,
Mark
ειπεν αυτη ο ιησους εγω ειμι η αναστασις και η ζωη ο πιστευων εις εμε καν αποθανη ζησεται
. . . saying to her Jesus, I AM the resurrection and the life, the one believing into Me even dying shall live . . .
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Re: yet not I, but Christ . . .

Postby mark s on Mon Oct 16, 2017 9:27 am

Abiding in His Word wrote:
shorttribber wrote:I'm surprised that others haven't shared their ideas on this mark, hope there will be more participation on this subject.


hmm...I would have participated but it seems to have gotten overly complicated imho.

I'm a stickler for context and within the context of Galatians 2, I see Paul refuting those who sought to bring them into subjection to the Law because of the liberty they had observed in believers.

Paul seems to refer to being dead relative to the Law as opposed to the (abundant) life (and liberty) Christ Jesus gives us.

So to me, it's a rather simple comparison to the death the law brings to the life Jesus brings.

:dunno:

Am I over simplifying it?


Hi Abiding,

Let's get more context:

Galatians 2 NKJV

14 But when I saw that they were not straightforward about the truth of the gospel, I said to Peter before them all, “If you, being a Jew, live in the manner of Gentiles and not as the Jews, why do you compel Gentiles to live as Jews? 15 We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, 16 knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.

17 “But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is Christ therefore a minister of sin? Certainly not! 18 For if I build again those things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor. 19 For I through the law died to the law that I might live to God. 20 I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me. 21 I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain.”


I agree the issue was those who would return to some sort of "Law", in these case, segregation from gentiles. Paul states that we are not justified by Law, rather by faith. He makes the case that if we rebuild "Law", we only make ourselves criminals, since we'll break whatever Law we set up. And then he springboards into the underlying principle.

I'm dead to the Law, so that I can live to God. It's one or the other.

And then he develops this principle. I've been crucified together with Christ, and I'm not even alive anymore! But I AM alive, only with Christ's Life.

This whole idea of Law is so totally contrary to what God has done for us. I don't have to worry about living according to Law of any kind, that is, with the exception of two commandments: Believe in Jesus, and Love. Love God, and love others.

Fact is, rather than trying to perform sufficiently well for God to accept me, God Himself lives in me, giving me my life, and this life is fully accepted and approved by God.

And the righteousness brought to me by this fact, that because of God's grace He has made His home in me (!), this is the true righteousness. Not what can come through the Law. The Law only condemns.

So I'd agree with you, Abiding, this is a simple comparison between the death brought by Law to the life brought by Christ.

What I want to look at in detail is this life brought by Christ.

I think there's a lot more to it than many people suspect.

Much love,
Mark
ειπεν αυτη ο ιησους εγω ειμι η αναστασις και η ζωη ο πιστευων εις εμε καν αποθανη ζησεται
. . . saying to her Jesus, I AM the resurrection and the life, the one believing into Me even dying shall live . . .
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Re: yet not I, but Christ . . .

Postby mark s on Mon Oct 16, 2017 9:40 am

Resurrection Torchlight wrote:I knew if I waited long enough Mark would tell us the answers

And there it is.

His power is always there, we don't always submit to it. Allow it to fill us. Allow Jesus to live through us.



I think Paul sums it up good here:
Romans 8:1–4
1 Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death.
3 For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh,
4 so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.



This is a mind blower!

No condemnation. Not guilty. Clean. Pure. Righteous and truly holy!

That would mean that sin in my life (it is no longer I that sin, but sin that lives in me) would be no different to God than an infection in my foot would be to my doctor.

It's not good for me. I was foolish to swim where it was known there was staph in the water. It's going to hurt me if it's not gotten rid of. If I pass it to others it will hurt them. It will cripple me, or kill me if I don't take care of it. It hurts!

But Jesus is committed to caring for me, and will work tirelessly to get rid of any remaining infection of sin in my life. And I don't need to be any more concerned about recriminations from God than I am from my doctor. Actually, I can be less concerned, knowing my doctor!

Jesus' only concern with sin in my live is simply getting rid of it, because He loves me, and it's no good for me.

And I especially love this passage- it is truly "Mind blowing"

1 Corinthians 2:12–16
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may know the things freely given to us by God,
13 which things we also speak, not in words taught by human wisdom, but in those taught by the Spirit, combining spiritual thoughts with spiritual words.
14 But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised.
15 But he who is spiritual appraises all things, yet he himself is appraised by no one.
16 For WHO HAS KNOWN THE MIND OF THE LORD, THAT HE WILL INSTRUCT HIM? But we have the mind of Christ.


RT


We already had the mind naturally resident in the body. And now we have the mind of Christ! Definitely mind blowing!

And I'm going to come back to this thought again also.

Much love,
Mark
ειπεν αυτη ο ιησους εγω ειμι η αναστασις και η ζωη ο πιστευων εις εμε καν αποθανη ζησεται
. . . saying to her Jesus, I AM the resurrection and the life, the one believing into Me even dying shall live . . .
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Re: yet not I, but Christ . . .

Postby shorttribber on Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:59 am

mark s wrote:This is describing a state of Christian maturity where we can all begin to work together to build each other up. I don't see this as describing an idealized state of the Church just before Christ's return.
It seems that what you don't see in the second sentence is what best describes your first sentence.
mark s wrote:But regardless of how you understand this passage, I don't think it detracts from the notion of daily holiness within the normal Christian life.

I completely agree :grin:
mark s wrote:Let's go with your understanding for the moment. Let's say this does describe an idealized stated of development of the Church, a special dispensation just before the return of Jesus. While it may mean that we all get brought to the same state, that does not mean we have to wait until then before we have a daily life of holiness.

I agree with this also. :grin:

There is no reason to wait until Christ does that Mighty work that only He can do regarding the Entire Body of Christ....waiting for that special outpouring of grace for the Entire people of God, would be against His Will.
That's what I believe.

That Mighty Power for each of us is Available Now, Individually...we must seek How to Take Hold of that...and Walk Accordingly Daily.
The Wisest men have changed their Counsels and Resolves upon second thoughts, much more upon experience, and approaching evils not at first discovered. Rev. Herbert Croft, 1675

Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counsellors there is safety.

Find seven years of tribulation plainly stated in the Bible.
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Re: yet not I, but Christ . . .

Postby mark s on Mon Oct 16, 2017 11:10 am

shorttribber wrote:
mark s wrote:This is describing a state of Christian maturity where we can all begin to work together to build each other up. I don't see this as describing an idealized state of the Church just before Christ's return.
It seems that what you don't see in the second sentence is what best describes your first sentence.


Perhaps I don't have an accurate picture of your view.

I see this as something intended to be happening now.
There is no reason to wait until Christ does that Mighty work that only He can do regarding the Entire Body of Christ....waiting for that special outpouring of grace for the Entire people of God, would be against His Will.
That's what I believe.

That Mighty Power for each of us is Available Now, Individually...we must seek How to Take Hold of that...and Walk Accordingly Daily.


I would go beyond this statement. That Might Power is now resident in all who are born again.

To the extent that we believe that, we walk accordingly.

Much love,
Mark
ειπεν αυτη ο ιησους εγω ειμι η αναστασις και η ζωη ο πιστευων εις εμε καν αποθανη ζησεται
. . . saying to her Jesus, I AM the resurrection and the life, the one believing into Me even dying shall live . . .
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Re: yet not I, but Christ . . .

Postby mark s on Mon Oct 16, 2017 11:33 am

. . . yet not I, but Christ . . .

Jesus Christ does not sin. He does not waver or doubt. He does not seek after worldly things. He does not listen to the mind of the flesh. He is not fearful. He loves. He lives the will of God.

Now.

If Christ is giving us His life, to become our life, that we live Him. To be conformed to the image of Christ. Until Christ be fully formed within you. Beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, we are being transformed into His image, from glory to glory. We are being remade to be like Him.

Does God want me to live like Jesus right now? This moment? I believe He does, and I believe that to be true in all moments. Does God provide what I need to live like Jesus right now? This moment? I believe He does, and I believe that to be true of all moments.

I Peter 1:4 "by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust." NKJV

I don't see any qualifiers on that.

Another mind blower!

IF - IF - this verse is true . . . He has given us His self-commitment to enable us to share in His nature, escaping the corruption that is in the world as our bodies - our flesh - continues to lie to us . . . "this will make you happy!" "this is horrible, get away!" . . . all the lies it tells!

IF this verse is true . . . we have what we need . . . right now . . . to share in God's nature, and escape the corrupt in the world because of all the garbage my body wants.

IF this is true . . . that we have it now . . . then the key is to believe that's true. If you don't believe the bridge will hold you, you don't want to cross. But if you believe . . .

Much love,
Mark
ειπεν αυτη ο ιησους εγω ειμι η αναστασις και η ζωη ο πιστευων εις εμε καν αποθανη ζησεται
. . . saying to her Jesus, I AM the resurrection and the life, the one believing into Me even dying shall live . . .
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Re: yet not I, but Christ . . .

Postby mark s on Mon Oct 16, 2017 11:41 am

Ephesians 4:24,

Put on the new man, who is created patterned after God, in righteousness and true holiness.

The new man has been created according to God, that is, according to His design, His pattern, His image. This new man, who was created in Christ Jesus a new creation, something that didn't exist before, is righteous, truly holy.

You are righteous and holy.

John wrote, that which is born of God sins not.

Have you been born of God?

Therefore, it is no long I that sin, but the sin that lives in me.

How can this be?

Because I am a new person. There was a man named Mark who was a gross sinner. But one day, God made a new Mark, and this Mark is a saint. Holy. Righteous. So. Who will I act like today? Will I act like the man I used to be? Or will I act like the new Mark?

I can tell which is which. All the things the Bible says about what the people of God do, and don't do, these tell me which is which, so I can do my part, choosing whether to live my new Jesus life, or to just let the body with it's mind do it's thing. Which will always be sin, since that's what it does! Or I can choose, knowing that God has given me the ability to live holy, to do just that. All I have to do is choose for right now. But I've already chosen for the day, to live holy, and to trust Jesus to make that happen.

More to come . . .

Much love,
Mark
ειπεν αυτη ο ιησους εγω ειμι η αναστασις και η ζωη ο πιστευων εις εμε καν αποθανη ζησεται
. . . saying to her Jesus, I AM the resurrection and the life, the one believing into Me even dying shall live . . .
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Re: yet not I, but Christ . . .

Postby shorttribber on Mon Oct 16, 2017 12:50 pm

mark s wrote:Because I am a new person. There was a man named Mark who was a gross sinner. But one day, God made a new Mark, and this Mark is a saint. Holy. Righteous. So. Who will I act like today? Will I act like the man I used to be? Or will I act like the new Mark?


To Act "like" or to act "as"? I think therein may be the key.

Faith IS words CONFIRMED by ACTION. Christ our Lord is the WORD OF GOD CONFIRMED by ACTION.
The TESTIMONY of Jesus (the New Covenant) is God's WORD CONFIRMED by His ACTION. We (Jew and Gentile) alike are beneficiaries of Christ's three and a half years of PERSONAL ACTION on earth, a CONFIRMATION He AUTHORED and a CONFIRMATION He will FINISH through US during OUR three and a half years of ACTION. ACTION that will GLORIFY the AUTHOR because we will overcome by the BLOOD OF THE LAMB and by the WORD of OUR (HIS and OUR) TESTIMONY.
HE will FINISH the CONFIRMATION of THE COVENANT by the ACTION of HIS BODY and we WILL possess the KINGDOM.


Not to go in the direction of the whole Dan 9:27 issue....just wanted to post this part from another thread because of the Idea of Faith/Belief In Action.
The Wisest men have changed their Counsels and Resolves upon second thoughts, much more upon experience, and approaching evils not at first discovered. Rev. Herbert Croft, 1675

Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counsellors there is safety.

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Re: yet not I, but Christ . . .

Postby mark s on Mon Oct 16, 2017 1:28 pm

Definitely not going in that direction please. Let's stay on the topic of leaving the old life in favor of the new life.
ειπεν αυτη ο ιησους εγω ειμι η αναστασις και η ζωη ο πιστευων εις εμε καν αποθανη ζησεται
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Re: yet not I, but Christ . . .

Postby shorttribber on Mon Oct 16, 2017 1:36 pm

mark s wrote:Definitely not going in that direction please. Let's stay on the topic of leaving the old life in favor of the new life.

I agree...just want to again mention that Faith IS Action when we refer to the Faith OF Christ. There was a reference you made to that earlier. That being the difference between Faith In and the Faith OF Christ.
The Wisest men have changed their Counsels and Resolves upon second thoughts, much more upon experience, and approaching evils not at first discovered. Rev. Herbert Croft, 1675

Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counsellors there is safety.

Find seven years of tribulation plainly stated in the Bible.
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Re: yet not I, but Christ . . .

Postby mark s on Mon Oct 16, 2017 2:36 pm

shorttribber wrote:
mark s wrote:Because I am a new person. There was a man named Mark who was a gross sinner. But one day, God made a new Mark, and this Mark is a saint. Holy. Righteous. So. Who will I act like today? Will I act like the man I used to be? Or will I act like the new Mark?


To Act "like" or to act "as"? I think therein may be the key.

Faith IS words CONFIRMED by ACTION. Christ our Lord is the WORD OF GOD CONFIRMED by [color=#0000FF]ACTION.


Hi ST,

This last part, I don't know what this means. But I'd like to go to the Biblical definition of faith.

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Hebrews 11:1 NKJV


We have a certain expectation for the future. Faith is declared to be the substance of that expectation. "Hupostasis" That which stands underneath.

There are things unseen. How do we know? Faith is the evidence. That we have faith shows the reality of that which we do not see.

Of all the things which God holds for our future, faith is the one thing we can get our fingers on, right now. And of all the things in our lives now, that we do not see, that we have faith, proves it's all real.

Because our faith is Jesus in us! That we believe shows He is here. And it's all true. Every word. Totally and completely true.

I would count this verse, that we were crucified with Jesus, dead, only to find that we live anew, now His life in us, as one of those exceedingly great and precious promises, through which we share in the divine nature, and escape the world's corruption.

IF we believe it to be true.

If we believe it to be true, then we will believe that God lives in me, and that His life is sufficient for every moment, every instance, every need, every misdeed, I can go on and on!

Through His promises/self-commitment, we share in His divine nature. We share in His divine nature.

Through His promises/self-commitment, we escape the corruption that is in the world because of our desires. He is committed towards our escape from the corruption.

Is there a single moment in mine or your life when that is not true?

Much love,
Mark
ειπεν αυτη ο ιησους εγω ειμι η αναστασις και η ζωη ο πιστευων εις εμε καν αποθανη ζησεται
. . . saying to her Jesus, I AM the resurrection and the life, the one believing into Me even dying shall live . . .
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Re: yet not I, but Christ . . .

Postby mark s on Mon Oct 16, 2017 2:41 pm

Follow up question . . .

Is Jesus in me sufficient to overcome the flesh?

Much love,
Mark
ειπεν αυτη ο ιησους εγω ειμι η αναστασις και η ζωη ο πιστευων εις εμε καν αποθανη ζησεται
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Re: yet not I, but Christ . . .

Postby Abiding in His Word on Mon Oct 16, 2017 2:47 pm

mark s wrote:Follow up question . . .

Is Jesus in me sufficient to overcome the flesh?


Mark, please clarify what you mean by "overcome the flesh." (I'm having a bit of trouble following or reading between the lines.) :mrgreen:

Are you asking if Jesus in me is sufficient to overcome sin?
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Re: yet not I, but Christ . . .

Postby shorttribber on Mon Oct 16, 2017 2:56 pm

mark s wrote:Follow up question . . .

Is Jesus in me sufficient to overcome the flesh?

Much love,
Mark


So much more than sufficient is what I believe. It was so easy to not sin when I experienced those thirty days I spoke of before.

I just still can't understand the mechanics of it. That isn't the best word I suppose, since what happened wasn't a physical or mechanical work.
It was a spiritual gift or foretaste somehow of his Love and Power.

I can only guess at why I can't just do that at will....it's just a mystery to me.

:hugs:
The Wisest men have changed their Counsels and Resolves upon second thoughts, much more upon experience, and approaching evils not at first discovered. Rev. Herbert Croft, 1675

Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counsellors there is safety.

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Re: yet not I, but Christ . . .

Postby mark s on Mon Oct 16, 2017 2:58 pm

I'd like to add, when I use the words "live holy", what I mean.

Holy is "set aside for God's use", so then to be holy, to me, simply means to be surrendered to God.

Thoughts are monitored and matched to the Word. Good ones are acted on, bad ones are discarded.

The Word is the Final Authority.

Motives are entirely out of the love of God for others.

To care for myself is to keep my machine in readiness, so that I can serve God, by serving the needs of others.

Pleasures are received from God alone, and not taken for myself.

His Path of Life is followed, because it is best, and I know that to be true. So obviously His way is the way to go.

This to me is a description of living holy.

It is also a recipe for a most joyful life!

It is also a pathway of works, laid out for us to walk in, by He Who crafts us into His craftsmanship.

It is also the way to glory forever.

It is the richest and most fulfilling life imaginable!

Much love,
Mark
ειπεν αυτη ο ιησους εγω ειμι η αναστασις και η ζωη ο πιστευων εις εμε καν αποθανη ζησεται
. . . saying to her Jesus, I AM the resurrection and the life, the one believing into Me even dying shall live . . .
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Re: yet not I, but Christ . . .

Postby shorttribber on Mon Oct 16, 2017 3:22 pm

mark s wrote:It is the richest and most fulfilling life imaginable!

I agree with every word of your post....especially this last sentence.

:spin:
The Wisest men have changed their Counsels and Resolves upon second thoughts, much more upon experience, and approaching evils not at first discovered. Rev. Herbert Croft, 1675

Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counsellors there is safety.

Find seven years of tribulation plainly stated in the Bible.
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Re: yet not I, but Christ . . .

Postby mark s on Mon Oct 16, 2017 4:02 pm

shorttribber wrote:
I can only guess at why I can't just do that at will....it's just a mystery to me.

:hugs:


Hi ST,

I'd like to challenge an underlying presupposition contained in your sentence above.

"I can't just do that at will"

Let me ask this.

Is it the Lord's will that we live lives of holiness, freed from the sinful behaviors we know and hate so well?

I believe it is.

I believe that our lives as God's children are intended to be lives filled with moment by moment intimacy with Him, and that this intimate life with God, as we learn more and more His love, so overwhelms anything else, everything else.

I think there are only two things that stand in our way as His children.

The first is easily dispatched, and that is what we want. What do you want?

This is our choice. The flesh, the body, it makes it look like many different things, but the choice is always the same.

Holiness ~~~ or ~~~ Depravity

Either I serve Christ, Who lives within me, or I serve the body, and it's desires.

I choose holiness.

The second, this is the one I find so much resistance to, Do you believe you can?

You can.

Ephesians 4, I think it is, mentions putting on the new man, which is renewed according to knowledge of the one creating him.

Our mind needs to work like His mind. We learn how Jesus is, this is who we are. As he was in this world, so are we.

We have the mind of the flesh, and the mind of Christ. Renewal comes with learning about Jesus. We were created patterned after Him. So, we learn about Him. And this tells us about us. It tells us which parts are from the Spirit, from our new creation, and which parts from our flesh, our corrupt body, masquerading as "what I want"/"what I need"/"what I mustn't have/So on . . .

Which one doubts?

Which one fears?

Which one freezes?

Which one chooses wrong things?

Which one lives in joy?

Which one is at perfect peace?

Which one is always aware of His loving presence?

Which is stronger? Which is better? Which is to be desired? Which is ordained for God's kids? Which is empowered by Him? Which in His expression of Love? Again . . . I could go on. And on!

Are you certain you can't?

Much love,
Mark
ειπεν αυτη ο ιησους εγω ειμι η αναστασις και η ζωη ο πιστευων εις εμε καν αποθανη ζησεται
. . . saying to her Jesus, I AM the resurrection and the life, the one believing into Me even dying shall live . . .
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Re: yet not I, but Christ . . .

Postby shorttribber on Mon Oct 16, 2017 4:36 pm

mark s wrote:I believe that our lives as God's children are intended to be lives filled with moment by moment intimacy with Him, and that this intimate life with God, as we learn more and more His love, so overwhelms anything else, everything else.

All that you wrote before this...I agree with...and this is so absolutely true also.
There is one thing I find from my life that contributes to some, Some of the inability I feel that I have pertaining to the Glorious Intimacy that I crave with God.
It is along the lines of the truth of the following text.....
1Cor 7
32 But I would have you without carefulness. He that is unmarried careth for the things that belong to the Lord, how he may please the Lord:
33 But he that is married careth for the things that are of the world, how he may please his wife.

It's a time thing, that I can't avoid when it comes to wife and children. I'm not trying to complain...I've done what God wanted of me when I followed the path to marriage and children. Nevertheless, the text above is true, plain and simply true.

I was not intending to share a part of that thirty day experience as I mentioned before. This part that led up to that, I feel I must share, as I think it is part of the key, and how it all happened.

"About thirty years ago, the Lord brought me to a place of thirsting and hungering after Him to such degree that for the space of about five or six months i averaged only about 3-5 hours sleep per night. my schedule went something like this.
Wake at 5am, praise God and pray for 3.5 hours, get ready for work in ten minutes start work at 9 and home at 5:20.
Run, literally run through the house eating usually cold hotdogs as fast as i could for ten minutes. then into the Word until about 10 or 11pm, then pray and praise God until 1 or 2 in the morning.
And it just continued like that until the Lord said, "I'm going to show you something".

Most of my prayer time prior to that moment was spent asking God, pleading with God to free me from sin, waiting on Him to reveal to me anything that kept me from the deepest intimacy with Him."

The point I'm making is this, as I said above....it's now a "time thing". What I would give to have that kind of time again...to privately pray and worship God for hours and hours as I did then...it makes me a bit sad just thinking of the Joy I experienced then.....but I will not question God's path for me. It is what it is.

I want what God want's.

Nothing God has done and the path He has chosen for me is to be unthankful for.

:bowing: Thank you Father in Heaven, you Give me the best of Your Will in All Things.

mark s wrote:I think there are only two things that stand in our way as His children. The first is easily dispatched, and that is what we want. What do you want?


So true.

mark s wrote:You can.


I agree...and I hold on to this truth also.

We Can do All things through Christ, in Every Situation and Circumstance He Has us....we Can Worship Him in the Beauty of Holiness.
The Wisest men have changed their Counsels and Resolves upon second thoughts, much more upon experience, and approaching evils not at first discovered. Rev. Herbert Croft, 1675

Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counsellors there is safety.

Find seven years of tribulation plainly stated in the Bible.
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Re: yet not I, but Christ . . .

Postby mark s on Mon Oct 16, 2017 4:55 pm

Another point I want to be clear upon.

I'm not talking about like "the holiness movement", stuff like that. There is the idea that the true Christians simply never do anything that could be considered sin. I'm not talking about that.

What I am talking about is that we can learn to differentiate fairly easily and simply between the mind of the flesh, and the mind of Christ, the new mind which is in us. And that as we examine the thoughts and wants and needs and feelings and all the things inside of us that we think of as "ME", we learn to see the difference between those that line up with the Word, and those that don't.

If we then simply choose the way of the Bible, even if simply to know that He is able, trustworthy, I trust Him. It may be no more detailed than that. Or it may be a specific verse brought to mind in a specific situation.

We choose to believe that His way is right. We choose it for ourselves, since it is His way, the right way, the good way.

The more and more we do this, the more and more knowledge and understanding He gives us. But even all of this seems to me to be sidestepping slightly from what is really at the center.

It's Love. God's Love.

More to the point, God's incredible, amazing, so huge love for you!

John 17 (NKJV)

20 “I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word; 21 that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me. 22 And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one: 23 I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me.


As the Father Loves the Son, He loves you, His son, His daughter. Simple straightforward truth.

He makes His home in us. Again, simple, straightforward truth.

Another simple, straightforward truth: These now no condemnation to those in Christ Jesus.

I love the simple! "For He as promised, 'I will never leave you nor forsake you.'"

So simple! So easy to understand!

Believe.

Believe His Word.

The Creator of the Universe, Specified in Scripture, is here with me, right now, with a certain purpose in mind, I would describe it as intimacy, sharing, help, oh so much help, revealing Himself to me, ridding me of all the filth and garbage of the world, of my old life, all that rot, and filling my heart, my mind, my life, with His amazing overwhelming Love.

"I have come that you might have life, and that more abundantly."

Believe it.

Much love,
Mark
ειπεν αυτη ο ιησους εγω ειμι η αναστασις και η ζωη ο πιστευων εις εμε καν αποθανη ζησεται
. . . saying to her Jesus, I AM the resurrection and the life, the one believing into Me even dying shall live . . .
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Re: yet not I, but Christ . . .

Postby shorttribber on Mon Oct 16, 2017 5:04 pm

mark s wrote:Another point I want to be clear upon.I'm not talking about like "the holiness movement", stuff like that. There is the idea that the true Christians simply never do anything that could be considered sin. I'm not talking about that.

I agree...the holiness that I'm referring to is that holiness that you described earlier.
The Wisest men have changed their Counsels and Resolves upon second thoughts, much more upon experience, and approaching evils not at first discovered. Rev. Herbert Croft, 1675

Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counsellors there is safety.

Find seven years of tribulation plainly stated in the Bible.
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Re: yet not I, but Christ . . .

Postby mark s on Mon Oct 16, 2017 5:16 pm

I've learned, I have a certain selection of music playing on my computer at work, filling my mind with good doctrine, good reminders of Jesus. I do the same thing in the car. Or there is a station in my area that plays hymns, and reads chapters from the Bible, for the most part. I have a radio in my bedroom that plays that station whenever I am home. I could go on.

But most of all, I know God is here. He is as with me in this room as someone sitting in that chair, but even more so. So much more!

I know God loves me. There is no limit or end to that love! He made me for the purpose of loving me, and when I messed that up, He fixed it because He loves me! There nothing else He won't fix. And there's nothing He won't do that is for my good. And I know without question this is true.

The part about sin being like an infection . . . there is therefore now no condemnation. Romans 4 says that the only way there can be no transgression is if there is no law. Meditate on that.

Meditate on all of these Scriptures. Think of them while you are driving. Think of them while you are in the shower. Speak of them with your family. When you are together in the room, speak from the Bible, share passages to bring faith and instruction.

Look for God's love to fill you, because, and I'll say this with certainty, if you have trusted in Jesus to save you from your sins and give you eternal life, and you are trusting that God will fill you with His love, He will.

Much love!

Mark
ειπεν αυτη ο ιησους εγω ειμι η αναστασις και η ζωη ο πιστευων εις εμε καν αποθανη ζησεται
. . . saying to her Jesus, I AM the resurrection and the life, the one believing into Me even dying shall live . . .
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Re: yet not I, but Christ . . .

Postby shorttribber on Mon Oct 16, 2017 5:22 pm

mark s wrote:I've learned, I have a certain selection of music playing on my computer at work, filling my mind with good doctrine, good reminders of Jesus. I do the same thing in the car. Or there is a station in my area that plays hymns, and reads chapters from the Bible, for the most part. I have a radio in my bedroom that plays that station whenever I am home. I could go on.

But most of all, I know God is here. He is as with me in this room as someone sitting in that chair, but even more so. So much more!

I know God loves me. There is no limit or end to that love! He made me for the purpose of loving me, and when I messed that up, He fixed it because He loves me! There nothing else He won't fix. And there's nothing He won't do that is for my good. And I know without question this is true.

The part about sin being like an infection . . . there is therefore now no condemnation. Romans 4 says that the only way there can be no transgression is if there is no law. Meditate on that.

Meditate on all of these Scriptures. Think of them while you are driving. Think of them while you are in the shower. Speak of them with your family. When you are together in the room, speak from the Bible, share passages to bring faith and instruction.

Look for God's love to fill you, because, and I'll say this with certainty, if you have trusted in Jesus to save you from your sins and give you eternal life, and you are trusting that God will fill you with His love, He will.

Much love!

Mark

Thank you for that :grin:

Really good things to think on and enjoy.
The Wisest men have changed their Counsels and Resolves upon second thoughts, much more upon experience, and approaching evils not at first discovered. Rev. Herbert Croft, 1675

Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counsellors there is safety.

Find seven years of tribulation plainly stated in the Bible.
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Re: yet not I, but Christ . . .

Postby Jay Ross on Tue Oct 17, 2017 2:03 am

Hello

Since this thread began, I have been pondering on our understanding of the covenant of God’s Salvation. The covenant that God has with mankind with regards to salvation, when did it begin? Cannot the implication of God’s Salvation Covenant with mankind be seen in Genesis 3. As well as in Genesis 4 in God’s interaction with Cain?

Then we have the Noahic Covenant. Then followed the Abrahamic Covenant Given over a period of around 240-250 years with the last portion of this covenant given to Jacob as he prepared to go down to Egypt. In the Abrahamic Covenant, God chose Abraham to be the father of a nation that would be a blessing to all of mankind. 430 years later, after God brings Israel out of Egypt, God enters into a Covenant with Israel to be a kingdom of priest and a holy nation.

At this time God introduces the yearly Sin Sacrifice for the redemption of sin. This changed the mediation process of the Salvation Covenant that God had with mankind.

Then around 494 BC, God told Israel that He was going to do the four following things: -

• To make reconciliation for iniquity,
• To bring in everlasting righteousness,
• To seal up vision and prophecy, and
• To anoint the Most Holy,

to update the methodology of his original Covenant of Salvation with Mankind.

In our near future, God has also informed us that He intends to redeem Israel, and make like new gain the Covenant of a kingdom of priests and a holy nation, which Israel had rebelled against at Mt Sinai.

As such when we talk about the Salvation covenant, we should be mindful of which Covenant that we speak.

Now if we consider Ephesians 4:20-24

Ephesians 4:20-24: - But you have not so learned Christ, if indeed you have heard Him and have been taught by Him, as the truth is in Jesus: that you put off, concerning your former conduct, the old man which grows corrupt according to the deceitful lusts, and be renewed{G:0365 ananeousthai} in the spirit of your mind, and that you put on the new {G:2537 kainon} man which was created according to God, in true righteousness and holiness.


Becoming one in Christ requires us to renew our minds and to also put on the refurbished man that God had intended us to be from the beginning of time.

Shalom
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Re: yet not I, but Christ . . .

Postby mark s on Tue Oct 17, 2017 8:13 am

Hi Jay,

While I appreciate your participation in this thread, let's stay with the topic of the New Life, and not delve into the covenants on this one.

Much love,
Mark
ειπεν αυτη ο ιησους εγω ειμι η αναστασις και η ζωη ο πιστευων εις εμε καν αποθανη ζησεται
. . . saying to her Jesus, I AM the resurrection and the life, the one believing into Me even dying shall live . . .
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Re: yet not I, but Christ . . .

Postby Resurrection Torchlight on Tue Oct 17, 2017 12:45 pm

IF - IF - this verse is true . . . He has given us His self-commitment to enable us to share in His nature, escaping the corruption that is in the world as our bodies - our flesh - continues to lie to us . . . "this will make you happy!" "this is horrible, get away!" . . . all the lies it tells!

IF this verse is true . . . we have what we need . . . right now . . . to share in God's nature, and escape the corrupt in the world because of all the garbage my body wants.

IF this is true . . . that we have it now . . . then the key is to believe that's true. If you don't believe the bridge will hold you, you don't want to cross. But if you believe . . .


Hi Mark,

Some have experienced this truth firsthand, while others have never ventured that far. I think it is a work of sanctification, coming to that place where we do fully grasp the power that we as believers have at our disposal. The power of Christ in us to enable us to live a sanctified life.

It's not only the bridge we have to trust will hold us, it's also that we have to believe in what lies on the other side that compels us to cross the bridge.

2 Peter 1:8–11
8 For if these qualities are yours and are increasing, they render you neither useless nor unfruitful in the true knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9 For he who lacks these qualities is blind or short-sighted, having forgotten his purification from his former sins.
10 Therefore, brethren, be all the more diligent to make certain about His calling and choosing you; for as long as you practice these things, you will never stumble;
11 for in this way the entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ will be abundantly supplied to you.


The bridge is faith is Christ, the eternal kingdom lies on the other side. The more we trust in Christ and His promises and grow in our knowledge of Him, the more we grow in the divine nature, which endows us with the power of the eternal kingdom toward which we advance.

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