prayer needed

Re: prayer needed

Postby Resurrection Torchlight on Fri Dec 05, 2014 3:42 pm

Just posting a quick update. Pretty much my husband has decided not to take any action right now concerning the "olive branch" from the leadership at our former church. They did not ask for a response of any kind and my husband thinks they still do not really get it, what reconciliation really means. He thinks that they are covering their bases so to speak, by writing the letter they can feel as if they have done what they could and now God will not hold back His blessing. In other words they wrote the letter to clear their own conscience and not really to seek reconciliation with us.

If anything more is to come of it, it will have to be at their insistence. At this point my prayer would be that if the Lord would want us to take it farther that He would prod them to follow up with us.


Thanks everyone for the prayers.

RT
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Re: prayer needed

Postby Spreading Salt on Sun Dec 21, 2014 7:38 am

Dearest Yeshua,

Thank You for loving RT and her family through this relational mess. Give them wisdom as they deal with each new opportunity for reconciliation. Your timing Lord. Peace in their hearts today. Amen.
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Re: prayer needed

Postby Resurrection Torchlight on Tue May 17, 2016 5:32 pm

So here is an update to this thread.

We recently stopped attending the church we were going to because they started a giving campaign that we believed was highly manipulative and not honoring to the Lord. So we went to several other churches, a new one each week since Easter. Let me tell you, where I live the church is in deep trouble. Beautiful large facilities with only 1/4 or less of the seats occupied. Very shallow preaching and little opportunity available for people to exercise their gifts, unless you want to work with small children. Even in the smaller churches, it is a sad testament to where the church has fallen.

After 7 years away, my husband and I are going to return to our home church. All those who were involved with the reasons why we left are gone, which is a specific answer to my prayers! We attended recently for the funeral of a long time friend, she taught the youth Sunday School class with my husband for many years and was also targeted in the wrongdoing against us. While there we were greeted by many people who still attend the church, all of them were very warm and several of them asked us to please come back.

The next day was Mother's day and we had planned to attend with my mother in law who also still attends regularly, as a gift to her. Again people greeted us very warmly and again we were told that we would be most welcome if we were to return. My husband got very emotional to the point of tears.

Then a few days later we received two letters in the mail, one from a lady we know and another from the Pastor, both expressed their joy at seeing us in church and the lady said that she was praying that the Lord would show us whether or not we should consider returning, she expressed her hope that we would.

Anyway going back to our former church was like going home. Every other time we visited it felt awkward and uncomfortable, but this time people were so warm and loving toward us. They were ready to embrace us, and we were ready to let them. Up until this point my husband was not willing to go back, but since all those who sinned against us are now gone he was at least willing to go for the funeral and for Mother's day, but I never thought he would want to actually go back on a regular basis. It was definitely a God thing!

Of course we are going into this with both eyes open, and with the understanding that even though the people who wronged us are gone, the church allowed it to happen, so we know that we may be walking into a situation that may eventually lead us into the same kind of difficulty. But we both feel that at least there, we can have the opportunity to employ our spiritual gifts, we know in advance what we are walking into, and who the people are. We already have established relationships and don't have to waste time being vetted before we can be involved which can take years. We also know that we can have influence, through teaching and leadership and ministry to hopefully help the church grow and overcome some of the shortcomings that led them down the path they took against my husband.

So I would greatly appreciate your continued prayers for my husband and I as we embark on this new journey. That He would give us discernment and wisdom and guide us as to if,how and when we should get involved. We also need prayer because we know we still need to have that conversation with the leadership about what happened and about reconciliation.

Thank you

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Re: prayer needed

Postby Resurrection Torchlight on Tue May 17, 2016 6:08 pm

Here's the link to a post that explains a bit more about why we left in the first place, I post it mostly to show myself how God works and answers prayer, and how good He has been to us and to also see how I have grown through the trial. Thanks to all who were there along the way praying me through!

viewtopic.php?f=25&t=51452&p=464247&hilit=+wronged#p464247


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Re: prayer needed

Postby GodsStudent on Wed May 18, 2016 5:22 am

Hi RT: What a great post for my eyes to behold this morning. It's cloudy outside and yet as I read your post, I was bathed in sunshine and happy thoughts, having been privy to all that has transpired with you and your husband and this church since the beginning of the offenses.

Not that this is necessarily advice for you, per se....but when all of the offenses of my husband were going on, and he wasn't at a place to offer a heartfelt apology to me, I ran across a saying that made each day for me easier as I awaited him going to a transition that might allow for his heartfelt apologies....

"Life becomes easier when you learn to accept an apology you never got." Robert Brault

I have read that thing many days and accepted that until God gets others where they need to be, I have to be able to function through what offends or has offended me, and not commit offenses against him in the meantime. I know about God removing offenders, too....though. We had some neighbors who were provoking and taunting us (they were racist and literally, standing in their yards calling my husband the n word, me a n lover and our daughter some slang word for half black/half white....)......and my flesh wanted retribution....but day after day for literally many months I had to pray against my flesh to act on the things I imagined doing to get back at them, and for the Lord to remove them since we just bought our house and couldn't financially make a different move...and guess what.....our neighbors ended up selling and moving very quickly...actually, their house wasn't on the market a month even, and the new buyers got them moved and out of here as they wanted in quickly....and now, we have these wonderful neighbors......SO....another God thing. :grin: :mrgreen: (and it was a personal victory for me to know that during the time they were here, even though I imagined many things, I was sustained by daily prayer against my flesh and for His Help....and I waited on it and got it......we need those affirmations that God is right there in the midst of the trial with us, and that it's personal to Him, too!!!)......

Anyway....just posting some thoughts and rejoicing in your decision to return to your original church as it has always come across as the home you were missing while things got sorted out by the Lord in various ways. Many of us have had to walk away from our families for a season...church family, biological family....etc....for sorting.
This is wonderful news indeed, sis.
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Re: prayer needed

Postby sacredcowbasher on Wed May 18, 2016 10:25 am

Great news RT, our God is awesome and has removed the offenders. No doubt in the process, although some were hurt, (and in your case leaving was the right thing to do), but although some were hurt, there is always a learning process where lessons can be learned. I will pray that God gives you guys a peace in going back and a witness that this is where He wants you.

When your character is attacked it is a difficult thing. It happened to me about two years ago and I was so ready to walk away, and it turned out that I did walk away but not because of the offense, but because the Lord told us to. I had forgiven the sister for what she said, although to this day I think many in this church think that was the reason for our leaving even though I told them other wise.

If many in the church are immature or ignorant to what their true heritage is in Christ, they may live and walk in the flesh. It may be why it was possible for those offenders to get away with what they did. In my case, when the offense came, it was concerning something that was a weakness in me, and something that I had given much prayer to. Actually, I had gotten victory in that area of my life. Not to say that I am without sin, but I was no longer in bondage to that sin. So when the offense came it was very painful, and it was said in a joking manner the way the world does when they say something that they really mean but cloak it in a whim or a joke or a saying.

GS said it well about offenses, and you guys need the mind of Christ concerning the offenses that took place. Be lead of the Spirit. We can never say never, but I would imagine that what happened might not be brought up for quite some time. Love them and let them love you and be blessed and be a blessing.

It is awesome that you can look back and see His hand at work and prayers answered, and that you guys are going back to the body that you feel at home with. God bless
Gal 2: 14-19 But when I saw that they were not straightforward about the truth of the gospel, I said to Peter before them all, "If you, being a Jew, live in the manner of Gentiles and not as the Jews, why do you compel Gentiles to live as Jews? We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified. But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is Christ therefore a minister of sin? Certainly not! For if I build again those things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor. For I through the law ( the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus ), died to the law ( the law of sin and death ) that I might live to God. Parenthetical remarks added are mine.
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Re: prayer needed

Postby Resurrection Torchlight on Tue Jun 28, 2016 11:50 am

So we have been attending our original home church since Mother's Day and have just scheduled a meeting with the pastor and one of the elders. To be followed by a meeting with the entire Board of Elders at a later date.Though all of those directly involved in the reasons why we left are gone the remaining men in leadership were complicit in it and we need to know if they see what happened as being wrong and if so why they believe it was. I had posted a while back that they sent us a letter in 2012 (I think) admitting that the church wronged us. We plan on using that for a springboard to our discussion. Please pray for my husband and I as we meet to talk with these men. For the leading of the Spirit in all we say, and for true reconciliation. What happens in this meeting may determine if we stay or go.

Appreciate the prayers


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Re: prayer needed

Postby burien1 on Tue Jun 28, 2016 4:00 pm

:praying:
Psalm 119:105; Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
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Re: prayer needed

Postby Resurrection Torchlight on Tue Jul 05, 2016 10:11 am

The meeting is for Tomorrow evening (Wednesday July 6).


Prayers are appreciated, thank you in advance!

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Re: prayer needed

Postby sacredcowbasher on Tue Jul 05, 2016 8:44 pm

:praying:
Gal 2: 14-19 But when I saw that they were not straightforward about the truth of the gospel, I said to Peter before them all, "If you, being a Jew, live in the manner of Gentiles and not as the Jews, why do you compel Gentiles to live as Jews? We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified. But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is Christ therefore a minister of sin? Certainly not! For if I build again those things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor. For I through the law ( the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus ), died to the law ( the law of sin and death ) that I might live to God. Parenthetical remarks added are mine.
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Re: prayer needed

Postby Resurrection Torchlight on Thu Jul 07, 2016 7:57 am

The meeting went well, pretty much heard the kinds of things we were hoping to hear. Our next meeting will be around August 9th with the entire Elder board.

Thank you again for continued prayers. Please pray that the Lord would make it clear especially to my husband as to whether we should renew our participation and membership there.


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Re: prayer needed

Postby GodsStudent on Tue Jul 12, 2016 7:30 pm

:praying: Hi RT! I took a break from my normal life and went away for family time. I am praying and sorry I didn't get in before the first meeting took place. Hope all is well. Praying the Lord reveal the blessings, the lessons and bring resolution for all..... :hugs:
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Re: prayer needed

Postby Resurrection Torchlight on Sun Jul 31, 2016 12:42 pm

Just a quick update:

Our meeting with the full board of Elders is scheduled for August 16th at 7:00, prayers are much appreciated.



Thanks


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Re: prayer needed

Postby sacredcowbasher on Thu Aug 04, 2016 9:51 pm

:praying:
Gal 2: 14-19 But when I saw that they were not straightforward about the truth of the gospel, I said to Peter before them all, "If you, being a Jew, live in the manner of Gentiles and not as the Jews, why do you compel Gentiles to live as Jews? We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified. But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is Christ therefore a minister of sin? Certainly not! For if I build again those things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor. For I through the law ( the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus ), died to the law ( the law of sin and death ) that I might live to God. Parenthetical remarks added are mine.
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Re: prayer needed

Postby Jay Ross on Thu Aug 04, 2016 10:46 pm

May wisdom abound all around.
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Re: prayer needed

Postby Resurrection Torchlight on Mon Aug 08, 2016 7:54 am

Another update:

Not sure if the meeting is going to happen, as one of the elders is going to have surgery the day before the meeting date and we really want all of them there.

The sad bit is that we are starting to realize the affect that poor leadership has had on the church since we left and came back. There is zero enthusiasm left in the congregation for engagement in ministry. The poor pastor and his wife are running ragged trying to do everything themselves. Consequently the ministry of the church is really suffering. The people are so self focused, they do not realize how that affects their ability to draw in the community, attendance is way down. The pastor is a great preacher, he sticks to scripture, and expounds wonderfully, which to us is so refreshing. It's been years since we have had some meat served up onto our spiritual plate. But the people don't seem to understand what a gift that is to them. Instead they are all wrapped up in what they are getting out of church, which is basically each other. They have become so short sighted. What I feel and has been demonstrated in their actions and attitudes toward us, is that they are looking to us to save them, to keep them from folding in on themselves. They are hoping that we will jump in and do what they either can't or won't do for themselves.

It is hard to know what the Lord wants for us, we are praying about how to proceed, wanting to be a force for good, and wanting to encourage them to return to their first love, and to again serve the Lord with joy. Half of the congregation is over the age of 70, and the other half are middle aged. There are very few youth, and even fewer families with young children. We also know that if we walk away now, it will be very hard for them, especially since they are hoping in us so heavily. Not a week goes by without someone saying something to that effect, yet we have given no indications to anyone that we have any intentions to get involved right away or to even stay. So we are in a very hard place, without a clear path forward.

Just wanted to give a little insight into what is going on so that you might all pray more specifically. Pray for us, but also pray for them. What happened to us was devastating, but it would be worse to see the church collapse entirely, especially when they have such a gifted preacher now, which has been lacking in our area for a very long time. He is young and has a lot of room for growth, but he is on the right track. We want to help them, but we need wisdom to know how, and it will all hinge on that meeting and whether or not they demonstrate that they have learned anything at all from what happened, if not it will be difficult to partner with them to help them, if they are only going to kick against us while we try to do so.

I will let you know if the meeting gets rescheduled.

Thank you again so very much for your prayers.



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Re: prayer needed

Postby GodsStudent on Mon Aug 08, 2016 10:31 am

RT: Unfortunately, what you are saying seems to be more of a normal for a lot of churches these days. I see a huge focus on fellowshipping with each other....or having fun stuff going on all the time.....but I have to say, I don't see much planning or reaching out for the lost and for the purpose of their own sanctification.....it all seems to be for the purpose of fun and having fun with each other. There are still some churches getting this right, but imo, more that aren't.
I am guilty on some levels myself, so I am pointing 4 fingers back at me as I point 1 out towards them.
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Re: prayer needed

Postby Jay Ross on Mon Aug 08, 2016 2:49 pm

When I posted, "May wisdom abound all around.", I was being a tad cryptic.

The question that needs to be answered, is, IMHO, what needs to be done for you to once again step into God's effective purposes for your respective lives within the church that had previously caused you grief.

Perhaps forgiveness needs to be offered and received by all the respective parties. (God has not revealed to me what that forgiveness needs to focus on but I am also confident that He has already taken care of what forgiveness is needed within this situation.)

Maybe then both parties can then get on with what God's purposes for your/their respective roles, either jointly or independently so that God's light(s) can openly shine once more in your respective lives.

Oh. Not sure where the appropriate place is for this to happen, but it probably needs to very public.
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Re: prayer needed

Postby Spreading Salt on Tue Aug 09, 2016 9:09 am

Dearest Yeshua,

May Your Will be done in this church community. Soften hearts where needed. Wisdom and discernment please. Lead them for Your purposes Yeshua. Help them trust You. Amen.
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Re: prayer needed

Postby Resurrection Torchlight on Wed Aug 17, 2016 5:27 pm

So we had the meeting with the elder board last night. One of the men however did not come, because his wife was ill. Not sure if I believe that or not. We decided to hold the meeting anyway, it went as I suspected it would. The pastor and one of the men seemed to really have a grasp on what went wrong seven years ago, though the Pastor does not know the whole story. Another elder also had limited knowledge of what went on as well and was pretty shocked by some of the details we went into, which wasn't much. We focused on principles that were violated and wanted to know if they understood how and agreed that they were. The other elder who was involved in our leaving just really seemed out of touch with what we were saying, though he did get emotional as he gave us a very heartfelt apology for his part in it all, which we accepted.

We came away with mixed emotions, which is what I thought would happen, they are who they are, we cannot make anyone understand that leadership must be based on solid biblical principles that must be adhered to without bias when making decisions and especially when taking action against a member. So some of them get it and some don't. The question remains for us, do we want to insert ourselves into ministry there again, knowing that the church and its leaders are pretty dysfunctional? We are leaning towards doing so, even though we know the risks. We are pretty much at the end of our rope with available churches in our area, and if we can't exercise our gifts here, we likely will not do so anywhere.

Thank you for your prayers, they are very much appreciated.

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Re: prayer needed

Postby GodsStudent on Thu Aug 18, 2016 4:37 am

Hi RT:

I get it....I really do, and I honestly feel that our culture here in America is to blame, and we can't wipe away years of a culture that has built it's way to where it is now, and created a certain "Breed" of people in it's ways. My own prayer is God help me put the focus back on you....because in the end, I serve Him best where He puts me, and that I can see the need where I am is enough to help me be able to roll up my sleeves and get started. I can't control what other people do, only my reaction to it. At the end of the day, any light in darkness is light that will help others to see, but it will be in time, and never on my terms. The question is, can you do this and feel good about it? THAT is the most important question. Will you be enhanced or diminished by your continued participation at this particular church. If it makes you bitter and resentful, then it's not healthy for you, and you won't grow, but will diminish there....and suffering will be the result for everyone. You and your husband and the growth you've had is unique to you, and won't be the case with everyone else. I know that those who love the Lord with the truest of hearts have a shine on them that most others don't have....you can see it, and it's so special. The problem is, sometimes they are lonely and hurting, because they have insights and warmth in them that others can't or don't reciprocate.

You know I am going through my own things with my addict husband at this time, and as such, I have a set of "writings" on my wall that help me think through my feelings. Here are a few that have accumulated on my wall:
All endings are beginnings, we just don't know it at the time. -Mitch Albom
Life becomes easier when you learn to accept the apology you never got. -Robert Brault
The path of least resistance just makes the road longer. Sometimes you have to head straight on into the pain to come out the other side. -unknown
She will not be able to fulfill her function if she remains with a man who derides her glory. -Marianne Williamson

Some of these may give you pause and help you think through your own situation. I know they have helped me think through mine.

Honestly, It is my personal hope that you and your husband will recognize the fallibility of the human beings in that church, and forgive the people there for not being at your level of capability and service to others. If you can accept them for who they are and where they are, and not expect them to give you a level of love and grace that is more like where you are and not like where they REALLY ARE....then you can let go of your pain and hurt and integrate into the body so that you can serve the Lord there, and hopefully, He will use you, in His Time and in His Ways, there......it would be a win for that body of believers, and hopefully, it would feel good and right for you, knowing the need is great, and the harvest is plenty, even in a believing church.

Love you, RT!...and I'm still praying you and your husband through this.

Lisa
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Re: prayer needed

Postby bugtussle on Thu Aug 18, 2016 9:16 am

Praying for all concerned here - Father, in Jesus' name, please take control and have your way in our lives this day - thy kingdom com thy will be done in this matter as it is in heaven - Alleluia and :a3:
For the Lord is good and His love endures forever. His mercy will never fail. Amen.
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Re: prayer needed

Postby Abiding in His Word on Thu Aug 18, 2016 9:22 am

Hello, bugtussle! Good to hear from you! Wishing you a belated Happy Birthday and hope you are well.
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Re: prayer needed

Postby Resurrection Torchlight on Thu Aug 18, 2016 8:25 pm

Honestly, It is my personal hope that you and your husband will recognize the fallibility of the human beings in that church, and forgive the people there for not being at your level of capability and service to others. If you can accept them for who they are and where they are, and not expect them to give you a level of love and grace that is more like where you are and not like where they REALLY ARE....then you can let go of your pain and hurt and integrate into the body so that you can serve the Lord there, and hopefully, He will use you, in His Time and in His Ways, there......it would be a win for that body of believers, and hopefully, it would feel good and right for you, knowing the need is great, and the harvest is plenty, even in a believing church.


My husband and I literally just had this conversation this evening, about accepting others where they are at, and appreciating where our different strengths lie. So often we look at others through our own lens, expecting them to think and be like us, but God has made us all different and instead of allowing differences to divide us, we need to see how they compliment us and unite us together as various members of the body of Christ. Each one with unique gifts and talents to bring to the table.


I appreciate your insights, as usual you always seem to be turning the same page as I, it is just further confirmation that God is leading.

I am pretty certain that we are going to stay and give it our best shot, whatever happens happens. We just want to serve the Lord. We know that we are needed and that the people want us there serving. Which is really awesome considering that in all the other churches we have been in other than music ministry we have had limited opportunities to teach or be involved in any kind of leadership.

I like all the quotes you posted, they all apply to our situation. I know that God has had His hand on us, growing us through the trial, I know that you get that, as you have learned much through your own trial. There were those who meant to harm us, but God caused it all to make us even stronger. I am thankful to Him for it, though it was extremely painful, I would not trade it, because I have learned so much through it all.

Thank you again for the prayers.

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Re: prayer needed

Postby GodsStudent on Sat Aug 20, 2016 6:05 am

Hi again Stacey:
My spirit knows this is the right decision for you, and I am rejoicing that you and your husband are able to see past the pain this caused you, and to the lesson in this, which is that you are you and the people in that church are them, and that as I said in my first post, you don't necessarily realize the distance you and your husband have come in your walk with the Lord....versus the "not so much" distance the others there have come. What I'm trying to say is something I have known about you in particular (and since your husband is with you, him by default, as he would be like you in so many ways).....What I have known about you is that your dedication and TRUEST love for the Lord has grown you literally in dynamic ways....and there aren't a lot of folks out there like you. Yours is a very TRUE heart for the Lord...and others are still learning to be that sincere in their love for Him....and as a result, they are more like themselves and less like the Lord. THAT is what caused you all this pain in the first place. You (and me) expect people to be as sincere and trustworthy and honest and moral as we are....not because we deserve special treatment, but because we have warm, loving caring hearts and never could or would trample down other people. It's sad, because we are the exception, not the rule, in humanity, and as such, we often get disillusioned and take the actions of thoughtless and careless people to heart when they really are like that all the time, honestly, and didn't mean anything special or particular when they offended us....it is all to do with where they are and not really at all to do with us.....but we don't "see that" in our pain....it seems so personal. So, now you know....your mission is to continue being you and to lead by example.....isn't that in the heart of so much scripture and so many of God's Children in scripture? This whole experience was a lesson and a blessing for you two and will have you truly prepared now, to be effective in your ministry at your church. For now you can let the offenses (and there will be more) roll down your back like water on a hill, and recognize that you can and must love others where they are and how you handle their offenses will teach them...for they will see it and desire to love and have love such as yours.

This stuff that I just said is going to become very evident to you as you embark on your work and ministry and fellowship with those that remain at the church now. ...and it will fulfill you so much more, now that all of this has happened, than it ever could have, if this hadn't happened. For you will honestly and IN REAL WAYS KNOW what is happening around you.....you will actually track it in real time and see so much more plainly, the Lord at work, not only in your lives but in the lives of those you fellowship and serve with. Stacey, there is so much truth to the scripture that tells to count it all joy......sometimes, though, it's hard to see that in the moment.

My spirit rejoices in the words I have typed here, for I know this is correct and can see, even before it all unfolds, the hand of the Almighty....in the lives of all those He loves at your church. He is truly remarkable....and He engages and is engaging all of us to each other and to Him.....it's stunning sometimes to catch glimpses of Him as He moves in our lives to mold and shape us. We are all so blessed.
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Re: prayer needed

Postby Resurrection Torchlight on Sat Aug 20, 2016 3:26 pm

My spirit rejoices in the words I have typed here, for I know this is correct and can see, even before it all unfolds, the hand of the Almighty....in the lives of all those He loves at your church. He is truly remarkable....and He engages and is engaging all of us to each other and to Him.....it's stunning sometimes to catch glimpses of Him as He moves in our lives to mold and shape us. We are all so blessed.


Amen Lisa, and I agree with all you said. Thanks!

Stacey :hugs:
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Re: prayer needed

Postby Resurrection Torchlight on Thu Oct 20, 2016 9:24 am

Another quick update:

After about four months of attending our home church, we finally took the plunge and performed a set for worship music this past Sunday, it was very well received and we were asked to join in the monthly rotation. We are considering doing so and likely will.

The church is not fairing well, attendance is way down, the lowest it has ever been to my knowledge. The people there just don't seem to want to get involved any more, which we totally understand, because the leadership has continued to make very bad decisions and those decisions have consequences. The Pastor and his wife are running ragged trying to hold it all together themselves, and I don't know how much longer they can keep it up. Also the financial situation is not good either; with a large facility to support and so few in attendance, the offerings are coming in way under budget every week. The future looks rather bleak for the church, and barring a real move of God to turn it around, I am not sure if it will survive. But we are going to serve in whatever way the Lord leads us to for the time being and see where He takes us.

As always prayers are appreciated.

Thank you!

RT
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Re: prayer needed

Postby GodsStudent on Thu Oct 20, 2016 11:16 am

:praying:
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Re: prayer needed

Postby Resurrection Torchlight on Wed Mar 21, 2018 8:58 am

It's been a while since I have written any updates here, since I am on a roll today I thought I would share for anyone who might be interested or wondering how its been going.

Since my last post (October 2016) we have been performing a worship set once a month on a rotating schedule with other teams. My husband plays keyboard and I play guitar, we both sing. We have tried to stick with current music, that is stuff you would hear on Christian radio, and each time we perform we have always gotten positive feedback from people in the congregation, which as anyone involved in ministry knows, is very encouraging. Well a few months ago the leadership decided that they wanted to change around the order of service, the reasons given, where to stimulate worship.

So I should tell you that the other two teams that perform do a good job. Though there are some issues with timing and sound levels which they don't seem to want to address. One of the people involved in the other teams is also an elder. Anyway apparently the leadership thinks that people in the church aren't participating in the music enough. So okay we changed the order and it didn't accomplish anything (which we knew wouldn't). Then they came back and said that they wanted to make the music simpler and easier for the congregation to sing, since they claimed that people complained that they don't know the words. And also that less new songs would be introduced. Which has a huge impact on what my husband and I do. So after back and forth discussion with leadership we have decided to pull out. The problem is that they are addressing a symptom rather than the cause. But there is no avenue to discuss these things with them. We have no problem with them catering to the needs of the congregation which is largely made up of older folks. If they want to do music more suitable for those people, that is fine with us. It just isn't music that we can perform well, while the other teams are more suited for it, so we decided to step down.

The real issue is that the church is dying, for many reasons but ultimately poor leadership and bad decision making is bearing its fruit. They say they want to keep the younger folks and draw them into the church, yet they feel compelled to cater to who they have. But who they have are people who are non committal to the church. They are solid believers, but their age limits what they can do.

At this point we are going to wait and see what we are going to do. We may visit other churches once in a while. Sadly we feel that we cannot use our gifts and talents in this church, they are not wanted by leadership who in their effort to save the church make decisions that only serve to deteriorate things further (IMO).

That's where things lie for those who might be interested to know.

Any prayers for guidance are much appreciated.

RT
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Re: prayer needed

Postby GodsStudent on Wed Mar 21, 2018 10:30 am

Hey RT:
I know that Calvary Chapel churches do the modern and contemporary music like what is being played on the radio. Have you ever visited one of these? Is one of these near you?
I do love the methods of the Calvary Chapel churches, which is a study of scripture line by line beginning in Genesis and ending in Revelation and starting all over again. Ironically, for me, I love the old hymns and get hung up with the new modern music and bands they use....isn't that crazy? It truly is sometimes different strokes for different folks....that said, I do have a concern that your feelings are hurt (again) at this church, and at the root, that's the issue at play? I may be wrong.
Love you lots sis and nomatter what, dont stop here, because you and your husband need to continue to serve and if your feelings are hurt and you're shying away from service here, you may need a change.

I'll pray about this with you.
Lisa
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Re: prayer needed

Postby GodsStudent on Sun Mar 25, 2018 11:18 am

Hi RT!

I thought about this thread this morning. We actually went to a Calvary Chapel near our house to visit (just moved here end of Feb). I thought the band was really excellent and thought of you and your husband doing the same kind of music. I have been to other churches were the music reminded me of banging, but this band this morning played great music like you would hear on the radio, and it was "just right!"

I do adore the hymnals, and miss the "blend" of the two in church, but again, I can't have what I want just because it's what I want....the body is big and none of us is the same, we're all different....and there is room for all of this music imo.
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Re: prayer needed

Postby Jay Ross on Sun Mar 25, 2018 3:28 pm

RT

Yesterday my wife and I attended the last church service of a church plant which we had joined just over two years ago when we move to live with our sons family on the one property, because it did not have the means to meet its yearly operational budget.

The pastor just over six months ago had received a word/impression of "Trust me, then get on with it." The pastor micro managed everything to ensure that everything was just perfect for the service, but in adjusting what others had done to set up the school hall for the service, he offended the willing helpers, who were also the mainstays on the financial front, and they withdrew and moved on, so that they could recuperate from being over worked in this church, in another church which had a full roster.

When the pastor had presented, to the congregation, his received word above, I asked the question as to how the word was punctuated. What he heard, could it have been said in this manner, "TRUST ME!? Then get on with it." I saw the light come on for the pastor. But someone else suggested that because the pastor was trying to establish a coffee and barbeque trailer ministry to meet and greet the people in the suburbs around where the church met that the word was pertinent to that situation. This person said that the pastor was to trust God and get on with building the ministry trailer out of the rust bucket that someone had organised to obtain very cheaply. They intended to make the coffee and barbeque trailer as cheaply as possible and where not interested in making it comply with the food quality regulations.

Shortly afterwards we went overseas for three months and when we returned, it had seemed that nothing had changed on the "trust me" front when we had returned at the end of November and the writing was in the plate for the church to be forced to close.

What I have been seeing in all that is happening within my church family is that God is going to raise up from the ashes a church body that He want to represent Him in our area which exhibits trust and faith and a belief in Him to follow His lead in what we should be doing to be a witness to the people that we rub shoulders with in our community.

ST's thread on the "Oh Ye of little faith" is a great study to look into, particularly if we look at the parallel synopsis in the other gospels where for example the calming of the wind when they are in the boat in during the storm on the lake, where it states in one, "you of little understanding" in Matthew and in Mark, "you of little faith."

My wife and I know that there is a word been given to an intercessor which says that there will be a worship center on our property in a building that closely resembles the future design that we have for our house. At the moment, we do not have the financial means, i.e. resources from God, to complete our plans for our house.

It has been a desire on both of our hearts to establish a place of worship in our home, but we also know that we are not to go into competition with other attempts to raise up the church that has just closed. We both must be patient and wait on God for when we can start to move forward with our hearts desire.

RT, the above is my story and dream that I have recounted for you to read.

I do not know what God's leading is for you, RT, or what His purposes are for your collective ministry is, for you and your husband, but what I do know is this: -

That we have to hang in there for God's leading,
That we have a full understanding of who God is,
That we trust God will lead us in the right steps that we must make in accomplishing His purposes for us,
That we have complete faith that God will accomplishes His purposes for us and
That we rest in Him and draw on his healing for us as we go forth as a better person in service for the Lord.

May the Lord Bless you and keep you both safe from falling as you continue to follow His leading for both of your lives.

Shalom.
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Re: prayer needed

Postby Resurrection Torchlight on Mon May 07, 2018 10:45 am

Thank you all for your prayers

Thank you Jay for these words:
That we have to hang in there for God's leading,
That we have a full understanding of who God is,
That we trust God will lead us in the right steps that we must make in accomplishing His purposes for us,
That we have complete faith that God will accomplishes His purposes for us and
That we rest in Him and draw on his healing for us as we go forth as a better person in service for the Lord.


My husband and I have been led to step away from our current church and return to the one we attended before returning there. We will still attend occasionally just to stay in touch with the people. But since we really have few avenues to use our gifts and talents there we feel we need to move on.

And yes, we are trusting in the Lord to guide us and lead us into whatever it is He would have us do. Thank you all so much for the prayers. They are very appreciated.

RT
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Re: prayer needed

Postby mark s on Mon May 07, 2018 11:14 am

Hi Jay,

Two things you wrote here really resonated with me:

Jay Ross wrote:What I have been seeing in all that is happening within my church family is that God is going to raise up from the ashes a church body that He want to represent Him in our area which exhibits trust and faith and a belief in Him to follow His lead in what we should be doing to be a witness to the people that we rub shoulders with in our community.


. . . and . . .

That we have to hang in there for God's leading,
That we have a full understanding of who God is,
That we trust God will lead us in the right steps that we must make in accomplishing His purposes for us,
That we have complete faith that God will accomplishes His purposes for us and
That we rest in Him and draw on his healing for us as we go forth as a better person in service for the Lord.


The first, I too am very seriously contemplating leaving the church body I've been with the past over 10 years due to it's increasing embrace of the inroads of the Harlot Church. They ignore the warnings. I don't know what more I can do. But there are still many who are true.

The second, well, these are just plain good words.

Much love!

Mark
ειπεν αυτη ο ιησους εγω ειμι η αναστασις και η ζωη ο πιστευων εις εμε καν αποθανη ζησεται
. . . saying to her Jesus, I AM the resurrection and the life, the one believing into Me even dying shall live . . .
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Re: prayer needed

Postby Resurrection Torchlight on Thu May 10, 2018 6:14 am

The first, I too am very seriously contemplating leaving the church body I've been with the past over 10 years due to it's increasing embrace of the inroads of the Harlot Church. They ignore the warnings. I don't know what more I can do. But there are still many who are true.

The second, well, these are just plain good words.

Much love!

Mark


I am sorry to hear this Mark,I know very well how difficult it can be to leave a body of believers you have come to know and love. The church in general, at least from my small vantage point, is in serious trouble. Weak leadership, bad decisions, weak doctrine, false doctrine and a swing away from proclaiming the gospel are only a few of the issues I have witnessed.

The letters to the seven churches resonates well with what you said. There are many who are still true, who remain steadfast in their faith while their local church drifts farther away from the truth.

I will pray for you as well my brother, that the Lord will direct your steps to where you go from here and that He will lead you to a place where your gifts and talents can be put into service for His glory.

RT
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Re: prayer needed

Postby shorttribber on Thu May 10, 2018 9:44 am

Just wondering marks and RT if there is a Victory Outreach church in your areas?

Have either of you heard of Victory Outreach?

It is a Highway and Byway street and inner-city outreach similar to Teen Challenge (David Wilkerson).

The big difference is that the ministry homes are completely free! No cost to those who go in to the Men's Home or Women's Home, completely free!

It is a very powerful worldwide ministry that is bringing drug addicts, prostitutes and gang members to Christ! :banana:

We go to a Victory Outreach church! I strongly encourage you to look into that and pray about it.

:hugs:
The Wisest men have changed their Counsels and Resolves upon second thoughts, much more upon experience, and approaching evils not at first discovered. Rev. Herbert Croft, 1675

Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counsellors there is safety.

Find seven years of tribulation plainly stated in the Bible.
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Re: prayer needed

Postby mark s on Thu May 10, 2018 10:00 am

There is a fellow I know who has been attending a Victory Outreach church. Both he and I share some serious concerns about their doctrine.

So it seems that maybe this is like the other. Some are good, some not to much.

Much love!
Mark
ειπεν αυτη ο ιησους εγω ειμι η αναστασις και η ζωη ο πιστευων εις εμε καν αποθανη ζησεται
. . . saying to her Jesus, I AM the resurrection and the life, the one believing into Me even dying shall live . . .
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Re: prayer needed

Postby shorttribber on Thu May 10, 2018 10:21 am

mark s wrote:There is a fellow I know who has been attending a Victory Outreach church. Both he and I share some serious concerns about their doctrine.

So it seems that maybe this is like the other. Some are good, some not to much.

Much love!
Mark


I am not aware of any doctrinal problems at all that are in conflict with Jesus Christ and Him Crucified. Of course there are not any of us who agree on all points of doctrine...none of us. What I think is the most important is the Preaching of Jesus Christ and Him Crucified, and his Ability through the power of the Holy Spirit to break the chains of bondage.

If we stay or do not stay in any ministry because we do or don't agree on every point of doctrine, then none of us would fellowship anywhere.

What I want in this hour...I want most of all to be in the thick of the fight for souls...that's it, that's about all that matters to me right now.

God told me long ago....."You catch'm and I'll clean'm"!

Seems we can't accomplish much anymore when it comes to teaching and discipleship that doesn't divide us....we need a miracle from God!

Soon we're going to have one, until then, i'll stay in the fight for those in the Highways and Byways, and Compel them to Come In.


:armor:
The Wisest men have changed their Counsels and Resolves upon second thoughts, much more upon experience, and approaching evils not at first discovered. Rev. Herbert Croft, 1675

Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counsellors there is safety.

Find seven years of tribulation plainly stated in the Bible.
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Re: prayer needed

Postby mark s on Thu May 10, 2018 12:32 pm

I don't want to derail this. I want to pick this up in a new thread.
ειπεν αυτη ο ιησους εγω ειμι η αναστασις και η ζωη ο πιστευων εις εμε καν αποθανη ζησεται
. . . saying to her Jesus, I AM the resurrection and the life, the one believing into Me even dying shall live . . .
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Re: prayer needed

Postby GodsStudent on Fri May 11, 2018 10:11 am

mark s wrote:I don't want to derail this. I want to pick this up in a new thread.


see the link below to follow the discussion that ensued. Great discussion indeed!

viewtopic.php?f=33&t=73874
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