The backwards president

Discussion not limited to prophecy.

The backwards president

Postby Jericho on Thu Mar 19, 2015 11:24 am

In the fictions world of DC comics, Bizarro is the mirror-image antagonist to Superman. Everything Superman is, Bizarro is the exact opposite. In Bizarro's world everything is backwards. Up is down, down is up. Good is evil and evil is good. In much the way Obama is the exact opposite from every American president. Think of him as the Bizarro Ronald Reagan. In Obama's Bizarro World our friends are our enemies and our enemies are our friends. Nothing highlights this point more than Obama's handling of the middle-east.

When the Arab Spring came to Egypt, Obama was first in line to throw Mubarak, a long time American ally, under the bus just so he could get his buddies the Muslim Brotherhood into power. A group whose spawned numerous terrorist organizations, and whose stated goal it is to dismantle America and turn it into a Muslim nation. He's also taken long time enemies Iran and Hezbollah off the terror threat list. You know the same Iran that took 52 American hostages for over a year and helped to kill our troops in Iraq. And the same Hezbollah that fires rockets on innocent civilians. He's turned his back on Israel, our only true friend in the middle-east. He has shown his contempt for Israel's Prime Minister, Benjamin Netanyahu. He doesn't even try to hide it anymore, at least in the beginning there was some pretense of cordiality. But what can we expect from a man whose first phone call after being elected in 2008 was to Palestinian president Mahmoud Abbas. And whose first interview was on Arab news channel Al Arabiya. He showed us where his loyalties lie from the start.

Of course his backwardness is not just regulated to foreign policy but to every aspect to his life. And it's no wonder considering his upbringing. He didn't grow up as a typical red-blooded American. He was raised by Marxists and Communists, he spent his formative years in Muslim Indonesia. While most college kids spend their vacation on some beach in Florida or Mexico, he spent his in Pakistan. He's not American, not because of where he was born but how he was raised. He has America's power in his hands but he doesn't think like an American. And this is the danger of a backwards president.
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Re: The backwards president

Postby shorttribber on Thu Mar 19, 2015 3:41 pm

YEP! YES SIR! RIGHTO! AGREED! That's all I better say about that Crafty LAWLESS ONE right now!
The Wisest men have changed their Counsels and Resolves upon second thoughts, much more upon experience, and approaching evils not at first discovered. Rev. Herbert Croft, 1675

Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counsellors there is safety.

Find seven years of tribulation plainly stated in the Bible.
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Re: The backwards president

Postby Exit40 on Fri Mar 20, 2015 9:52 am

Let's not forget he was elected based on what he said he was going to do, reach out to those who seem to be destructive and have a constructive dialogue. And in that regard he has been true to his promises. And he was elected twice, by our own people. So what is the issue ? Simply, he doesn't appear to represent all of America, or even America. We as citizens have a right to question the actions of our govt officials, duty actually. It does appear proper answers, as in honest transparency, are not forth coming. As such, are we allowed to let this affect our manner and being ? Shall we castigate and label in a manner which will be done to us ? What is the true meaning of our Faith then if we sound off as malcontent citizens of our appointed leaders ? The times may be upon us, shall we accept them as our Lord's work, or what shall we do ?

God Bless

David
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God

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And Grace, my fears relieved.
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Re: The backwards president

Postby shorttribber on Fri Mar 20, 2015 11:41 am

Exit40 wrote:As such, are we allowed to let this affect our manner and being ?

yes, we must be allowed so much... we must be fully on alert in our spirits as to just Who this man May Become.
Even if many others still think it is not possible for him to fulfill a certain endtime role.
Exit40 wrote: Shall we castigate and label in a manner which will be done to us ?

I will call Any of the Loser's tools what they are.......I'm not concerned about what they call me or when they will call me it.
Jesus knew how to deal with Rouge Leaders....He will help us to know how to Deal with Rouge, Antichristian Rulers as we draw closer And Through the great trib. also.
Exit40 wrote:What is the true meaning of our Faith then if we sound off as malcontent citizens of our appointed leaders ?

To Believe God that many scriptures are to be understood as principles, not as IRON CLAD RULES, Faith in Christ Alone will Rule my spirit and my family.
Let me give you an example....
If you were personally Ordered by Our Government to Reveal the location of certain Christians for the Slaughter to come, would you, BECAUSE you will Follow the Letter of Scripture?
There Will be a Time when the Spirit of the Word of God will be CLEARLY REVEALED......I believe it's coming soon.
Exit40 wrote: The times may be upon us, shall we accept them as our Lord's work, or what shall we do ?


We will Know Soon I think
The Wisest men have changed their Counsels and Resolves upon second thoughts, much more upon experience, and approaching evils not at first discovered. Rev. Herbert Croft, 1675

Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counsellors there is safety.

Find seven years of tribulation plainly stated in the Bible.
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Re: The backwards president

Postby Exit40 on Fri Mar 20, 2015 1:57 pm

shorttribber wrote:Let me give you an example....
If you were personally Ordered by Our Government to Reveal the location of certain Christians for the Slaughter to come, would you, BECAUSE you will Follow the Letter of Scripture?


Scripture itself has already answered that question at the beginning of this age, literally and spiritually, written and explained to the jot and tittle about the nature and example of our Faith. I can hardly believe you are even asking it now. Jesus was hard on religious leaders, not leaders of governments local or otherwise, and most certainly did not condemn Herod, Caesar or Pilate. His zeal was, and is, for the House of the Lord, His Father.

I am just getting concerned about being politically and culturally flippant in our observations of our current situation. The apparent way of our world is to label and castigate, second time today I've written that. I am hoping we can avoid an appearance of behaving in that manner based on potentially misunderstood or erroneous interpretations of Scripture which cannot be established as fact. It's not really so much about us as individuals based on what we write here and what may become of us, but about innocent other Christians who may be the targets of persecution we have personally encouraged upon ourselves. I know sometimes things are difficult to grasp, but the implication of your question to me voids what I believe you to know about me personally from our conversations here, but it does potentially speak silent volumes also regarding implications and unintended consequences. Assuming you did not intend to offend, I take no offense, nor do I intend any. I am just having some questions come to mind and looking for some answers, about people and the way we are in today's troubled times.

God Bless You Brother

David
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God

T'was Grace that taught my heart to fear.
And Grace, my fears relieved.
How precious did that Grace appear
The hour I first believed.
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Re: The backwards president

Postby shorttribber on Fri Mar 20, 2015 2:33 pm

I'm glad you've taken no offense David, there certainly was none intended.
One simple point I only wanted to make was not actually addressed though.
Let's try it another way....
About Authorities that are Over us.............That are "Not a Terror TO Good".....we By Principle and Rule are TO Obey them, Honor them, Yes.
But follow the Meaning in Reverse............Those that would "Not BE a Terror to Evil"....in other words...that Spirit of Antichrist that calls Evil Good and Good Evil.

that's the decision that will be made.

I will not OBEY Any Power Placed over me that is CLEARLY the Spirit of Antichrist.
The Wisest men have changed their Counsels and Resolves upon second thoughts, much more upon experience, and approaching evils not at first discovered. Rev. Herbert Croft, 1675

Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counsellors there is safety.

Find seven years of tribulation plainly stated in the Bible.
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Re: The backwards president

Postby Exit40 on Sat Mar 21, 2015 8:01 am

shorttribber wrote:I'm glad you've taken no offense David, there certainly was none intended.


Excellent. :mrgreen:

that's the decision that will be made.

I will not OBEY Any Power Placed over me that is CLEARLY the Spirit of Antichrist.


Nor will I, nor should we. However, the decision, when do we make it ? And how do we determine CLEARLY the antichrist spirit has manifested fully right now ? I understand what you are saying, but with all the hyperbole and hoopla around us is it clear, now ? And if not now, when ? Or are we making Prophecy self fulfilling ? So if any of us believes we are being led by an antichrist spirit should we then stop paying our taxes ? To be true to our determinations we must stop then lest we fund evil. Are we at that point yet ? And really, how do we do that ? Whatever is going on out there, it seems to have intruded into the fabric of our lives, but it has always been that way. So what should we do, rather what can we do and still remain in our Faith ? We have no way out that I can see as far as the world is concerned. I see this as Christ's battle, over the world and ourselves. If we consider ourselves to be His watchmen and warriors we must follow without reservation His directives, lest we get in His way. Of course we can't really, but to what good affect are we if we get trampled in the stampede of confusion. I believe as you, when the time comes we will know. Until then we won't. As far as presidents go, we have survived every one since Washington. If now is not 'the time' we will survive this one too.

God Bless You

David
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God

T'was Grace that taught my heart to fear.
And Grace, my fears relieved.
How precious did that Grace appear
The hour I first believed.
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Re: The backwards president

Postby shorttribber on Sat Mar 21, 2015 9:15 am

Good questions David, all of them. We should not at ANY Time resist in a militant way, not in the least I don't think, the ancient church in the first few centuries is our best example on that.
Taxes? Do what Jesus said...that's what I do and will do as long as I'm able to.
The only reason for the use of EYE Opening language with regard to the POTUS and his agenda is to do just that.....we Can't OVERLOOK the Evil that I'm Very Sure that man intends for us.

We will soon see if I'm wrong or not....and I'm not the least concerned about being proven one way or the other. i Only care that if i'm right, at least i raised my voice as Loudly and Clearly as i could.

bless ya
The Wisest men have changed their Counsels and Resolves upon second thoughts, much more upon experience, and approaching evils not at first discovered. Rev. Herbert Croft, 1675

Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counsellors there is safety.

Find seven years of tribulation plainly stated in the Bible.
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Re: The backwards president

Postby Abiding in His Word on Sat Mar 21, 2015 9:55 am

There are two types of kingdoms; the kingdoms of this world (governments) and the "Kingdom of Christ" which is not of this world.

*snips*

According to Romans 13, every human being has an allegiance to one of these governments. Each person is born "under' the dominion of an earthly kingdom and "subject to it" (Romans 13:1). Regardless of the form (i.e. democracy, monarchy, republic, dictatorship, etc...), each government is called in Scripture "a minister of God." The appropriate ministry of government, however, is a ministry of justice, not mercy.

"If you do what is evil, be afraid; for government does not bear the sword (of justice) for nothing; it (government) is a minister of God, an avenger who brings punishment on the one who practices evil" (Romans 13:5).
Governments ought to punish those who practice evil for the good of others. Though justice does harm to evil-doers (imprisonment, isolation, death), all equitable punishment dispensed by the world's kingdoms occurs for the righteous purpose of preventing evil-doers from perpetrating future harm against others.


Scripture reveals the authority to punish evil doers is in the hands of God alone. " Never take your own revenge, beloved, but leave room for the wrath of God, for it is written, "VENGEANCE IS MINE, I WILL REPAY," says the Lord" (Romans 12:19). However, God delegates authority to earthly kingdoms to impart judicial punishment for evil done, calling this governmental practice of punishing evil doers "the sword of justice" (Romans 13:5).


more
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Re: The backwards president

Postby Exit40 on Sat Mar 21, 2015 10:04 am

Good article, thanks Abiding.

Jesus the Messiah came to save the evil person from his evil (Matthew 1:21). Jesus is the greatest Interventionist who has ever lived (Matthew 18:11). He takes a selfish and self-absorbed person who is capable of the grossest evil, loves him, pursues him, and then turns him into an unselfish, others-oriented person who possesses and cherishes the values of Christ and His Kingdom. These values include love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control.


God Bless You

David
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God

T'was Grace that taught my heart to fear.
And Grace, my fears relieved.
How precious did that Grace appear
The hour I first believed.
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Re: The backwards president

Postby Jericho on Sat Mar 21, 2015 7:26 pm

We've had this discussion before and I think it ultimately comes down to personal convictions, so I will share mine. Romans 13 tells us to be subject to the governing authorities and then it goes on to define such a government, "Rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil"... For he is "God's minister" to you "for good". To me God is talking about just governments which would rule out tyrannical authorities who are a terror to good works. We must not forget Satan is also in the business of appointing leaders. Just a few examples, the Prince of Persia, the Prince of Greece, the Prince of Tyre (Eze 28), the Anti-Christ, etc. This world system is controlled by Satan.

So how do we respond to tyrannical governments? If we look to the Old Testament we certainly see examples of Godly men and women not submitting to evil authorities:
Mosses mother defied the Pharaoh's command to kill all Hebrew babies (Exodus 1:15-21)
Mosses defied Pharaoh to free his people.
Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego refused to worship the golden image. (Daniel 3:18)
Daniel did not obey the decree not to petition any god or man for thirty days, except the king.
Mordecai refused to bow down to the Persian magistrate Haman. (Esther 3:5)
Seven thousand in Israel refused to bow down and worship Baal. (I Kings 19:18)

Likewise in the New Testament they did not blindly submit to the governing powers:
Mary and Joseph did not obey Herod's command to kill the baby boys. (Mat 2:16)
An angel did not obey the governing authorities when he broke Peter out of jail (Acts 12:6-11) or Paul and Silas (Acts 16:25-34)
An angel warns the people not to take the Mark of the Beast even though the Anti-Christ is given authority to cause all to receive his mark. (Rev 13:16, Rev 14:9)

It's true Jesus did not condemn the authorities of his day, but he didn't listen to them either when they told him to stop preaching the gospel. Jesus claim to be the son of God was in fact a direct challenge to the supremacy of Caesar himself and part of the reason why he was crucified and Christians were persecuted. Jesus submitted himself to be crucified not out of blind submission to the governing authorities but because it was his purpose in coming to earth. It should also be remembered that Jesus is just one part of the God head, and while Jesus did not chastise the governing authorities, God certainly did. The apostles followed suit by preaching the gospel in direct violation of the will of the governing authorities which led to their deaths. And not all the early Christians were okay with being persecuted by the governing authorities:

Saint Romanus, right before he was martyred in the early fourth century said, "Never shall I pray for the emperor’s well-being or for his great and brave regiments but that they may be faithful soldiers and in the water of Christ be born again for the Father and receive from heaven the Comforter himself, that they may cast off the darkness of idolatry and see the light of eternal hope which does not flow into the humours of the eyes gleaming through the windows of the body, but shines in pure hearts within. …I assure you I shall never obey one who commands a sin.”

Saint Vincent of Saragossa said, "Torture, imprisonment, the claws, the hissing red-hot plate, even the final suffering of death, are all mere sport to Christians. How vain and futile are you rulers! How senseless Caesar’s decree!"

Saint Eulalia said, "Here am I, a foe to the worship of evil spirits; I trample idols under foot, and with heart and lips I confess God. Isis, Apollo, Venus–they are naught; Maximian himself too is naught; they because they are works of men’s hands, both worthless, both naught. Though Maximian, lord of power and yet himself vassalage to figures of stone, prostitute himself to his gods and make himself over to them, why does he persecute noble hearts?"

Here in the United States the Christians during the 18th century obviously didn't see a problem with rebelling against a tyrannical government. The seeds of rebellion were preached from the pulpit some two decades before the American Revolution, so much so that King George called it a "Presbyterian Rebellion". One such example is The Reverend Nathaniel Whitaker. Citing Joshua 11 he wrote:

"While all the peace in his kingdom, for aught we find, God commands Israel to raise an army, and invade the tyrant’s dominions. The moral reason for this is obvious. For usurpation or oppression, is offensive war, already levied. Any state which usurps power over another state, or rulers, who by a wanton use of their power, oppress their subjects, do thereby break the peace and commence an offensive war. In such a case opposition is mere self-defense, and is no more criminal, yea, as really our duty to defend ourselves against murderer, or highway robber. Self-preservation is an instinct God implanted in our nature. Therefore we sin against God and nature, when we tamely resign our rights to tyrants, or quietly submit to public oppressors, if it be in our power to defend ourselves"

One important detail in the United States is we elect our officials, unlike the despots in biblical times. That means the people are supposed to be the governing authorities and the politicians are here to serve us. So much so that the Founding Fathers put a rebellion clause in the Constitution by adding the Second Amendment and the right to bear arms. Hint, those arms were not just for hunting. Thomas Jefferson said "a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical." As such we have every right and duty to castigate our leaders when they no longer serve the public good.

I do not purpose to stop paying taxing or to take up arms against the government, such actions should not be taken lightly. I'm saying evil should be opposed with appropriate force. Evil prevails when good men do nothing. Yes presidents come and go, but all the while we are losing our freedoms as we are being dragged into a one world system. We should do all we can now, in a civil manner, so it doesn't get to the point where it becomes physical. And if the first shot is fired, I guarantee it won't be by us. Yes I know this world is headed in that direction no matter what we do. But we are supposed to be the salt of the the earth and it is our job to occupy until He comes. Then means we should do what we can to delay the decay.
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Re: The backwards president

Postby shorttribber on Sat Mar 21, 2015 8:31 pm

super post Jericho

:a3: to every word
The Wisest men have changed their Counsels and Resolves upon second thoughts, much more upon experience, and approaching evils not at first discovered. Rev. Herbert Croft, 1675

Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counsellors there is safety.

Find seven years of tribulation plainly stated in the Bible.
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Re: The backwards president

Postby Abiding in His Word on Sat Mar 21, 2015 8:36 pm

Jericho wrote:We've had this discussion before and I think it ultimately comes down to personal convictions, so I will give mine.


Your comment is excellent, Jericho. I'll just share a few thoughts about yours... :mrgreen:

To me God is talking about just governments which would rule out tyrannical authorities who are a terror to good works.


I believe the Roman government was tyrannical. We know the persecution many suffered under that government.

So how do we respond to tyrannical governments? If we look to the Old Testament we certainly see examples of Godly men and women not submitting to evil authorities:


OK, let's take a look at the OT examples you provided.

Mosses mother defied the Pharaoh's command to kill all Hebrew babies (Exodus 1:15-21)


I'm thinking you meant the Hebrew midwives. At least they're the ones referenced in the scripture provided. If that's the case, the Egyptian Pharaohs made life miserable for the Hebrews but in spite of their treatment, verse 12 says they continued to multiply. That's what Pharaoh feared..they were increasing in number. So demanding Hebrews to murder Hebrews was unconscionable. We would not obey that command either.

Mosses defied Pharaoh to free his people.


Moses was under direct orders from His King. That's the one he was obligated to obey. Likewise, we must "obey God rather than man" when the two are conflicted.

Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego refused to worship the golden image. (Daniel 3:18)


Again the commandment given by God prohibited idolatry. God intervened. Likewise, we must "obey God rather than man" when the two are conflicted.

Daniel did not obey the decree not to petition any god or man for thirty days, except the king.


I can't speak to this one as it escapes my memory... :mrgreen:

Mordecai refused to bow down to the Persian magistrate Haman. (Esther 3:5)


Bowing was a visible sign of reverence. Mordecai being a Jew viewed it as an act of worship and so should we if required to show this type of homage to an authority.

Seven thousand in Israel refused to bow down and worship Baal. (I Kings 19:18)


They knew better... to do so would be a direct, intentional act of idolatry forbidden by God's laws and warned by Him of the practice by surrounding pagan nations.

Likewise in the New Testament they did not blindly submit to the governing powers:
Mary and Joseph did not obey Herod's command to kill the baby boys. (Mat 2:16)
An angel did not obey the governing authorities when he broke Peter out of jail (Acts 12:6-11) or Paul and Silas (Acts 16:25-34)
An angel warns the people not to take the Mark of the Beast even though the Anti-Christ is given authority to cause all to receive his mark. (Rev 13:16, Rev 14:9)


These were supernatural interventions of divine protection which is evidence that God's plans and purposes will not be disrupted. He will accomplish that which He intends. Some of us may experience such miraculous events in the future and some have testified of similar miracles unexplainable any other way.

It's true Jesus did not condemn the authorities of his day, but he didn't listen to them either when they told him to stop preaching the gospel. Jesus claim to be the son of God was in fact a direct challenge to the supremacy of Caesar himself and the reason he was crucified.


Jesus could not deny His humanity nor His divinity. Neither did He speak negatively about governing authorities as far as I know. Even when Peter tried to protect Jesus from the soldiers with his sword, Jesus told him to put it away. He never advocated rebellion or violence.

Jesus submitted himself to be crucified not out of blind submission to the governing authorities but because it was his purpose in coming.


Amen! In fact, He told Pilate that "“You would have no authority over me at all unless it had been given you from above."

It should also be remembered that Jesus is just one aspect of the God head, and while Jesus did not chastise the governing authorities, God certainly did.


Jesus is God. :)

The apostles followed suit by preaching the gospel in direct violation of the will of the governing authorities which led to their persecution.


Jesus told them to "go into all the world." They were obedient to what they were called to do.

I do not purpose to stop paying taxing or to take up arms against the government, such actions should not be taken lightly. I'm saying evil should be opposed with appropriate force. Evil prevails when good men do nothing. Yes presidents come and go, but all the while we are losing our freedoms as we are being dragged into a one world system. We should do all we can now, in a civil manner, so it doesn't get to the point where it becomes physical. And if the first shot shot is fired, I guarantee it won't be by us. Yes I know this world is headed in that direction no matter what we do. But we are supposed to be the salt of the the earth and it is our job to occupy until He comes. Then means we should do what we can to delay the decay.


Well, Jesus warned that this type of persecution and oppression would come. He told His disciples this:

"But beware of men, for they will hand you over to the courts and scourge you in their synagogues; and you will even be brought before governors and kings for My sake, as a testimony to them and to the Gentiles. Matt 10:17-18

I think we sometimes confuse the earthly kingdoms with the spiritual kingdom. We are just journeying through this life, aren't we? James said it this way, " Yet you do not know what your life will be like tomorrow. You are just a vapor that appears for a little while and then vanishes away." We've not experienced persecution so it's frightening for us to think about and our natural instinct is either the "fight or flight" reaction.

Bottom line is we must, as you mentioned, Jericho, follow our consciences depending on the situation we may encounter but always obeying God rather than man when push comes to shove. Just my thoughts...
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Re: The backwards president

Postby Jericho on Sat Mar 21, 2015 9:10 pm

Daniel did not obey the decree not to petition any god or man for thirty days, except the king.

I can't speak to this one as it escapes my memory... :mrgreen:


Daniel 6:4-7. This was the thing that got him put in the lion's den.

Bottom line is we must, as you mentioned, Jericho, follow our consciences depending on the situation we may encounter but always obeying God rather than man when push comes to shove. Just my thoughts...


Thank you for your thought's Abiding, Certainly we can't do anything when it violates God's law. Peter said "we must obey God rather than men". Everything else is a matter of personal conviction. I suppose things like the American Revolution are a gray area for Christians. To what extent should one resist a tyrannical government? And is it lawful as a Christian to do? I suppose they also struggled with these questions.
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Re: The backwards president

Postby Exit40 on Sun Mar 22, 2015 9:10 am

Hi Jericho.

But we are supposed to be the salt of the the earth and it is our job to occupy until He comes.


We are to be salt and light. If we are just salt there is nothing but a bitter taste. Add enough light and it is sweet as honey.

God Bless You

David
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God

T'was Grace that taught my heart to fear.
And Grace, my fears relieved.
How precious did that Grace appear
The hour I first believed.
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Re: The backwards president

Postby Abiding in His Word on Sun Mar 22, 2015 9:55 am

Jericho wrote:To what extent should one resist a tyrannical government? And is it lawful as a Christian to do? I suppose they also struggled with these questions.


From the link I provided above:

When in the course of human history, an earthly kingdom or government begins to practice evil by infringing on the basic liberties of the governed, then it is incumbent and obligatory on the people to overthrow their earthly kingdom for the sake of the protection of human life and individual liberty. Our own Declaration of Independence puts it this way:

"Whenever any form of government becomes destructive to these ends (of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness), it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it and to institute new government.... Prudence, indeed, will dictate that governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes,,, But when a long train of abuses and usurpations... reduces (the people) under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security."

It is therefore entirely within the mandates of biblical Christianity to work as an agent for one's government and be an instrument of justice, punishing the evil doer through war or other retributive acts of justice. Further, it is entirely within the rights, and possibly even falls under one's moral obligation as a Christian, to participate in the overthrow of a despotic government that intentional harms its citizens, as Dietrich Bohnoeffer sought to do in Germany in 1945, and American pastors sought to do in colonial America during the Revolutionary War.


I found his views to be very helpful and I agree with them. See what you think. I wasn't advocating passivity but rather using the appropriate and legal means available to us and outlined in the constitution to correct the harm a despotic government may be imposing.
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Re: The backwards president

Postby Mr Baldy on Sun Mar 22, 2015 10:02 am

Exit40 wrote: Jesus was hard on religious leaders, not leaders of governments local or otherwise, and most certainly did not condemn Herod, Caesar or Pilate. His zeal was, and is, for the House of the Lord, His Father. I am just getting concerned about being politically and culturally flippant in our observations of our current situation. The apparent way of our world is to label and castigate, second time today I've written that. I am hoping we can avoid an appearance of behaving in that manner based on potentially misunderstood or erroneous interpretations of Scripture which cannot be established as fact. It's not really so much about us as individuals based on what we write here and what may become of us, but about innocent other Christians who may be the targets of persecution we have personally encouraged upon ourselves.


David,

This is by far one of the more EXCELLENT comments I think that I've ever seen you write. :a3: Brother!
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Re: The backwards president

Postby Exit40 on Mon Mar 23, 2015 6:39 am

Mr Baldy wrote:
David,

This is by far one of the more EXCELLENT comments I think that I've ever seen you write. :a3: Brother!


Sometimes I get lucky. :wink:

God Bless You

David
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God

T'was Grace that taught my heart to fear.
And Grace, my fears relieved.
How precious did that Grace appear
The hour I first believed.
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Re: The backwards president

Postby burien1 on Mon Mar 23, 2015 6:56 am

Exit40 wrote:Hi Jericho.

But we are supposed to be the salt of the the earth and it is our job to occupy until He comes.


We are to be salt and light. If we are just salt there is nothing but a bitter taste. Add enough light and it is sweet as honey.

God Bless You

David

:a3: I don't always succeed, ( especially about those who are ruling over us now) but I try very hard to live by this;
"Do everything without grumbling or arguing, so that you may become blameless and pure" (Philippians 2:14-15).



Now debating, sticking to the facts only, is another story. :wink:
Psalm 119:105; Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
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Re: The backwards president

Postby WOODHENOT3 on Mon Mar 23, 2015 2:25 pm

I ran into a christian bus driver a few weeks ago who was bickering about the President and calling him evil, anti-christ etc, so I said to him, "people like you are the caused of this country's downfall", WWJD?
In America today, it's "The Backwards church"....Jesus was hard on religions, today, he would be hard on denominations as well.....if you want to stop evil, spread the gospel, don't fight it...I believe calling Obama the anti-christ is absurd...
In Christ Always,
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Re: The backwards president

Postby shorttribber on Mon Mar 23, 2015 2:41 pm

WOODHENOT3 wrote:...I believe calling Obama the anti-christ is absurd...


Nobody Is the Antichrist....YET....but someone Will BECOME the Antichrist.
so yes, calling Anyone THE Antichrist IS Absurd.

But, I think it just as Absurd to not Consider the Possibility that he Could Become The Antichrist.

And there is nothing wrong with suggesting so.
The Wisest men have changed their Counsels and Resolves upon second thoughts, much more upon experience, and approaching evils not at first discovered. Rev. Herbert Croft, 1675

Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counsellors there is safety.

Find seven years of tribulation plainly stated in the Bible.
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Re: The backwards president

Postby WOODHENOT3 on Mon Mar 23, 2015 3:43 pm

But, I think it just as Absurd to not Consider the Possibility that he Could Become The Antichrist.

And there is nothing wrong with suggesting so.


The Bible says, you will know when the Antichrist is revealed, I don't think anyone will know who's the Antichrist is until it Stands in the Temple.
Whats the point of suggesting who's the coming Antichrist if you're going to know when he stands in the Holy place?
Are you afraid God is going to mislead you?

Just wondering bro...:)
In Christ Always,
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Re: The backwards president

Postby Jericho on Mon Mar 23, 2015 4:19 pm

John says many antichrists have come. I've never been one to claim Obama is "the" Antichrist, but he certainly has the spirit of the Antichrist.
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Re: The backwards president

Postby shorttribber on Mon Mar 23, 2015 6:40 pm

WOODHENOT3 wrote:
But, I think it just as Absurd to not Consider the Possibility that he Could Become The Antichrist.

And there is nothing wrong with suggesting so.


The Bible says, you will know when the Antichrist is revealed, I don't think anyone will know who's the Antichrist is until it Stands in the Temple.
Whats the point of suggesting who's the coming Antichrist if you're going to know when he stands in the Holy place?
Are you afraid God is going to mislead you?

Just wondering bro...:)


do think anyone Could be mistaken about there even being a "third temple"?
The Wisest men have changed their Counsels and Resolves upon second thoughts, much more upon experience, and approaching evils not at first discovered. Rev. Herbert Croft, 1675

Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counsellors there is safety.

Find seven years of tribulation plainly stated in the Bible.
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Re: The backwards president

Postby WOODHENOT3 on Mon Mar 23, 2015 8:07 pm

shorttribber wrote:
WOODHENOT3 wrote:
But, I think it just as Absurd to not Consider the Possibility that he Could Become The Antichrist.

And there is nothing wrong with suggesting so.


The Bible says, you will know when the Antichrist is revealed, I don't think anyone will know who's the Antichrist is until it Stands in the Temple.
Whats the point of suggesting who's the coming Antichrist if you're going to know when he stands in the Holy place?
Are you afraid God is going to mislead you?

Just wondering bro...:)


do think anyone Could be mistaken about there even being a "third temple"?


I didn't mention a "third" temple...we know the Antichrist will reveal in the middle of the 70th week....(Dan. 9)...

2Thess2
3 Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God. 5 Do you not remember that while I was still with you, I was telling you these things?
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Re: The backwards president

Postby shorttribber on Mon Mar 23, 2015 8:46 pm

quote="shorttribber"]do you think anyone Could be mistaken about there even being a "third temple"?[/quote]

WOODHENOT3 wrote:I didn't mention a "third" temple...we know the Antichrist will reveal in the middle of the 70th week....(Dan. 9)...2Thess23 Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God. 5 Do you not remember that while I was still with you, I was telling you these things?


wouldn't it be a third temple that according to you, and the vast majority of Christians, expect an antichrist to physically sit in?

There are still many Christians, myself included, that do not believe in a literal stone tribulation temple that you've made reference to above.......Is it Possible that we Could be right?

Don't want to drift from the main topic, we could interact and exchange ideas about this subject on the thread I've linked below though.
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=70185
The Wisest men have changed their Counsels and Resolves upon second thoughts, much more upon experience, and approaching evils not at first discovered. Rev. Herbert Croft, 1675

Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counsellors there is safety.

Find seven years of tribulation plainly stated in the Bible.
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Re: The backwards president

Postby brett on Tue Mar 24, 2015 6:46 pm

There is something that recently came to my attention, its kinda old news now but it made a BIG impression on me recently, I think this is significant:

Netanyahu 'Asked Rabbi to Allow Giving David's Tomb to Vatican'
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/ ... RIae-mUdXg

King David's Tomb Room 'Conquered' by the Church
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/ ... RIabumUdXg


Look what Daniel 11:45 says about the AC :
He will pitch his royal tents between the seas at the beautiful holy mountain. Yet he will come to his end, and no one will help him.


Look where Davids Tomb is, between the seas :

Wide Angle

Image

Look where Mount Zion is (beautiful holy mountain)

Zoomed IN

Image


David's Tomb is on Mount Zion, it appears to me that this is the location described in Daniel, and its the Pope (the Vatican) that is currently seeking ownership of this land, and Netanyahu is trying to help this happen, he's willing to do this for the Pope, so that means that one man who could deceive Netanyahu is the Pope...........something I find very interesting. I think this is significant, even prophetic......this current Pope needs our scrutiny, read Daniel 11 -> in the old King James translation, it does seem possible it fits the Pope in some ways.
KJV ONLY !
The KJV is the only PURE translation. Avoid modern corruptions like the NIV, they have been altered to support the coming Anti-Christ.
"The words of the Lord are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Thou shalt keep them, O Lord, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever." Psalm 12:6-7
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