Is America headed towards Dictatorship?

Discussion not limited to prophecy.

Is America headed towards Dictatorship?

Postby Mr Baldy on Sun Dec 29, 2019 12:55 pm

There are a lot of things that will occur prior to the Return of Christ...…..

Many Pastors; Teachers; Preachers; Students and Theologians of Bible Prophecy have mentioned that America is not mentioned in End Times Prophecy. They believe that America the Great has to fall - before the emergence of a
Final World Empire can arise, and it's leading man - the coming Antichrist rules the Entire World.

Well...… I'm not so sure about all that.

Bible Prophecy is always 100% accurate - it's mans interpretation that is flawed. One of the very first things Jesus mentioned when the Disciples came to Him privately and asked Him:

1) When will this happen? - (referring to the destruction of the temple)

2) What will be the sign of your Coming?

3) What will be the End of the Age?

Jesus replied: "Watch out that no one deceives you" - Matthew 24:4

The things going on in America as it effects our lives IS truly scary.

GREED, LIES, CORRUPTION, Self-Centeredness; HATE; MORAL TURPITUDE...….and MORE LIES.

Are the right circumstances; players/actors; money - and God's timing allowing America to be ripe for a Dictatorship?

Don't be deceived...…..
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Re: Is America headed towards Dictatorship?

Postby Jericho on Mon Dec 30, 2019 12:25 am

There's one thing standing in the way of a Dictatorship, the Constitution. Especially the 2nd Amendment. If that were done away with then perhaps. There are certainty those out there trying to make that happen, but I don't see a hard dictatorship happening without a major civil conflict.

I've always said there can't be a world empire as long as there is a lone super power in the world. It seems apparent to me there are powerful forces trying to bring down America. The Western world in general is in a state of rapid decline. There are other wild card factors that could effect America's future: An economic crash, natural disasters, war. Who knows for sure how it's all going to play out.

You are right about all the wickedness and corruption going on. Such things will not bring blessings but curses upon our nation. We have already fallen so very far.
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Re: Is America headed towards Dictatorship?

Postby Ready1 on Mon Dec 30, 2019 12:18 pm

Wouldn't martial law and a dictatorship be quasi-equivalent? I could see martial law, with a suspension of the rule of law as we know it, much sooner than a "dictatorship".
Just observing.

E.
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Re: Is America headed towards Dictatorship?

Postby Mr Baldy on Mon Dec 30, 2019 5:20 pm

Jericho wrote:There's one thing standing in the way of a Dictatorship, the Constitution.


Hi Jericho -

At one time I would have wholeheartedly agreed with your aforementioned comment. However, with the actions that have been taken as far as the current Impeachment process (disregarding federal court subpoenas) it appears as if the elements written within the Constitution are being ignored. This is SCARY - and I say this as a non-partisan citizen.

Jericho wrote:Especially the 2nd Amendment.


Well.....there is something that has been discussed in our Courts called the "Collective Rights Theory" - which is:

"A collective rights theory of the Second Amendment asserts that citizens do not have an individual right to possess guns and that local, state, and federal legislative bodies therefore possess the authority to regulate firearms without implicating a constitutional right."

Jericho wrote:I don't see a hard dictatorship happening without a major civil conflict.


Interesting thought...……

However, and very respectfully, I think that you may be underestimating the power of the Federal Government. Let's take a look at what happened on April 5, 1933 when then President Franklin D Roosevelt signed Executive Order 6102 seizing gold. In our current time it appears as if there is absolutely no hesitation at all to have an Executive Order put into action to by pass congress; even as it "could be" subject to judicial review. The Government could seize your privately owned firearms.

Jericho wrote:I've always said there can't be a world empire as long as there is a lone super power in the world


This has all changed. Contrary to popular belief, I think as long as other Nations have possessed Nuclear Weapons there is no so-called "lone wolf" Super Power - as having nuclear weapons is in itself a deterrent for any Super Power Nation to attack.

Jericho wrote:There are other wild card factors that could effect America's future: An economic crash, natural disasters, war. Who knows for sure how it's all going to play out.


I think you're spot on here..... I recall at least two things that caused the Fall of the Roman Empire:

1) Christianity - the loss of traditional values

2) Governmental Corruption & Political Instability

There are other factors of course - but I mentioned those two because Rome also fell from within. When we start to see acts of immorality desensitized over, and over again by Leaders in different forms of Government - either by the media or in public forums of Society as a whole then we are well on our way. Very subtle messages of various acts of using foul language is now being used on television, radio, and social media. Years ago, some of the foul language and sex scenes would have been immediately sanctioned by the FCC (Federal Communications Commission.)

We are being desensitized to accept homosexuality as if it is normal (we love the homosexual, not the sinful act) - and the very extremely subtle message of being transgender is now being socially accepted as well. I don't know the psychology behind a 3 year old boy telling someone that he is a girl because "he feels that way" - but perhaps I'm missing something here. It all just seems extremely dangerous to me, and I am afraid that people are being deceived.
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Re: Is America headed towards Dictatorship?

Postby Mr Baldy on Mon Dec 30, 2019 5:40 pm

Ready1 wrote:Wouldn't martial law and a dictatorship be quasi-equivalent? I could see martial law, with a suspension of the rule of law as we know it, much sooner than a "dictatorship".


Hi Ready1 -

I'm not sure if they would be "quasi-equivalent" as the use of Martial Law could be used a much sooner than a Dictatorship, as you have mentioned - but I have posed this question in light of what I see going on in our Country. Martial Law could of course be enacted; however, this is something that would be "temporary" and used by Military Forces during a time of an emergency/disaster when the local authorities cannot control public order. The power to the local government/authorities would be restored once things are under control.

I think that what we are seeing happening now is something more sinister happening in a very covert way; in that people are becoming more acceptable to things that they know are wrong - yet in order to maintain their way of life; or to protect themselves they are falling inline. It really appears, at least to me that a "cult of personality" is forming, and people are being deceived. I further feel that it is coming from a spiritual level.
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Re: Is America headed towards Dictatorship?

Postby Jericho on Mon Dec 30, 2019 8:07 pm

Mr Baldy wrote:At one time I would have wholeheartedly agreed with your aforementioned comment. However, with the actions that have been taken as far as the current Impeachment process (disregarding federal court subpoenas) it appears as if the elements written within the Constitution are being ignored. This is SCARY - and I say this as a non-partisan citizen.


Hello Mr. Baldy,

You're correct there are elements trying to erode the Constitution and Bill of Rights. I'm well aware the Constitution could be ignored completely if all the wrong people were in power. I'm also aware of the heavy handedness of the Federal Government, especially during times of war and crisis. It does not change the fact, however, that there are more guns in this country than people. Enough to arm every man, woman, and child. Good luck to the government trying to confiscate them all. I can guarantee it would trigger an armed conflict that I mentioned previously. I also tend to believe there are many patriotic men and women in our military and police that would not go along with it.

Mr Baldy wrote:This has all changed. Contrary to popular belief, I think as long as other Nations have possessed Nuclear Weapons there is no so-called "lone wolf" Super Power - as having nuclear weapons is in itself a deterrent for any Super Power Nation to attack.


That is true, but by everyone having nuclear weapons it also guarantees no one will use them. Then it goes back to who has the strongest military, and that's currently the USA. Now maybe the USA will be part of the ten nation confederacy the AC comes out of and submits to him. I tend to think that wont happen, but I can't rule it out completely either.

Mr Baldy wrote:There are other factors of course - but I mentioned those two because Rome also fell from within. When we start to see acts of immorality desensitized over, and over again by Leaders in different forms of Government - either by the media or in public forums of Society as a whole then we are well on our way.


I agree with you completely. Abraham Lincoln said as much: "At what point then is the approach of danger to be expected? I answer, if it ever reach us, it must spring up amongst us. It cannot come from abroad. If destruction be our lot, we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen, we must live through all time, or die by suicide." That seems to me what is exactly happening, and there is an agenda behind it.
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Re: Is America headed towards Dictatorship?

Postby keithareilly on Sat Jan 04, 2020 5:33 am

Yes, we have been headed toward a dictatorship for a long time.

It is coming through those who want us to be a Democracy instead of a Republic.

Democracy is: Two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch.
The minority does not have rights in a democracy, only the majority has rights. There are no individual right in a democracy. That is why it is the Democratic party is the party trying to eliminate individual rights not the Republican party.
When Democrats are in office they enslave the people through laws and taxes, forcing people to rely on government. This is why the support socialism, to enslave the people to government.

So Yes, we have been headed toward a dictatorship for a long time.

Keith
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Re: Is America headed towards Dictatorship?

Postby shorttribber on Sat Jan 04, 2020 8:00 am

keithareilly wrote:Yes, we have been headed toward a dictatorship for a long time.

It is coming through those who want us to be a Democracy instead of a Republic.

Democracy is: Two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch.
The minority does not have rights in a democracy, only the majority has rights. There are no individual right in a democracy. That is why it is the Democratic party is the party trying to eliminate individual rights not the Republican party.
When Democrats are in office they enslave the people through laws and taxes, forcing people to rely on government. This is why the support socialism, to enslave the people to government.

So Yes, we have been headed toward a dictatorship for a long time.

Keith

Very well put!

:a3:
The Wisest men have changed their Counsels and Resolves upon second thoughts, much more upon experience, and approaching evils not at first discovered. Rev. Herbert Croft, 1675

Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counsellors there is safety.

Find seven years of tribulation plainly stated in the Bible.
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Re: Is America headed towards Dictatorship?

Postby GodsStudent on Sat Jan 04, 2020 8:41 am

shorttribber wrote:
keithareilly wrote:Yes, we have been headed toward a dictatorship for a long time.

It is coming through those who want us to be a Democracy instead of a Republic.

Democracy is: Two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch.
The minority does not have rights in a democracy, only the majority has rights. There are no individual right in a democracy. That is why it is the Democratic party is the party trying to eliminate individual rights not the Republican party.
When Democrats are in office they enslave the people through laws and taxes, forcing people to rely on government. This is why the support socialism, to enslave the people to government.

So Yes, we have been headed toward a dictatorship for a long time.

Keith

Very well put!

:a3:


Agree with shorttribber.....Keith, that was very well put!
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Re: Is America headed towards Dictatorship?

Postby Mr Baldy on Mon Jan 13, 2020 6:50 pm

keithareilly wrote:Yes, we have been headed toward a dictatorship for a long time.

It is coming through those who want us to be a Democracy instead of a Republic.

Democracy is: Two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch.
The minority does not have rights in a democracy, only the majority has rights. There are no individual right in a democracy. That is why it is the Democratic party is the party trying to eliminate individual rights not the Republican party.
When Democrats are in office they enslave the people through laws and taxes, forcing people to rely on government. This is why the support socialism, to enslave the people to government.

So Yes, we have been headed toward a dictatorship for a long time.

Keith


Hi Keith,

I guess your comments reflect the ideas of many. I for one don't affiliate myself with any Political Party - as they are all corrupt; evil; imperfect and self-serving.

As long as man rules - or is in some form of power; having his flawed ways, a desire to be "god-like"; has an evil mind, and is the epitome of depravity in this "Fallen World" - the only Hope is what has been written in Scripture.

In being a believer in Christ, I think it is not a good idea to identify with any Political Parties - but to respect the offices, as governmental entities are ordained by God. When we identify ourselves with Political Parties, normally it's associated with a "man" or "person" who has been elected by the people to represent particular views; opinions; ideas and/or agendas. The only perfect agenda is Christ.

The reason why I began this Thread was to pose the question about the possibility of America running the course of becoming a Dictatorship? I did so because of what I see currently going on in our government. Regardless of Political Party things have changed. Things are not what most have considered to be "normal." At least as far as what could be considered 'normal' in this Fallen World we live in.

If what you are suggesting is true - in that you say the Democratic Party "enslaves the people through laws and taxes, forcing people to rely on government. This is why the support socialism, to enslave the people to government."

Then we also have an issue with the current Republican Party - in that the "Rule of Law" is being ignored by way of not abiding by Court-Ordered Subpoenas. This appears to have members within the Republican Party to be loyal to "a person" who has been duly elected to rule this party - and not the Constitution of the United States. This also is very dangerous.

These aforementioned actions are extremely dangerous in any given scenario, and should raise a red flag to those of us who believe that it is God who establishes Governments (Romans 13.) Otherwise, we can be actual "talking points" to affiliate ourselves with man-made rules - and/or a particular man himself - and not looking to Christ as being our Government and Ruling Authority.

America is most definitely headed towards Dictatorship - but then again, so is the entire World.
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Re: Is America headed towards Dictatorship?

Postby GodsStudent on Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:53 am

Mr Baldy:

If you're going to point to the Republicans, what about the "closed door partisan impeachment?" That, too, was also not Constitutional.

Our nation is split down the middle, with the politicians who serve it. It's a strange thing to be a part of and see, indeed.

At that, because I can see that your post is clearly biased towards a democrat party view, I'll stop here.
Have at the Republicans and fail to point at the Democrats all you like...it's everywhere, even here, it seems.
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Re: Is America headed towards Dictatorship?

Postby Jericho on Tue Jan 14, 2020 8:59 am

These aforementioned actions are extremely dangerous in any given scenario, and should raise a red flag to those of us who believe that it is God who establishes Governments (Romans 13.) Otherwise, we can be actual "talking points" to affiliate ourselves with man-made rules - and/or a particular man himself - and not looking to Christ as being our Government and Ruling Authority.


One day Christ will personally rule on earth over the nations, but that day is not today. In the meantime he has given us the authority to govern ourselves, rather it be for good or for bad. If your waiting for a perfect human government you will never find it. There has never been a government that hasn't had corruption, imperfection, and self-serving people. But we have to work with what we have. And you don't have to be beholden to any particular political party or man to do that. I don't know how involved you are in the political process, but not caring whose elected is actually a good recipe for a dictatorship.
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Re: Is America headed towards Dictatorship?

Postby Jay Ross on Tue Jan 14, 2020 1:08 pm

Hello

Is it not true that most/everybody in America has an opinion on the President but that the President of America is only elected by a minority of the people of America who care enough to state/record their opinion at a ballot box.

As an outsider to the USA, the dominate focus on America on this forum is nauseating to say the least. In Australia, 120 years ago when a federation of states was formed to "govern" Australia, the American model was considered and rejected by this country's "elders" for our constitutional processes for deciding on who should govern this particular part of the land mass of the earth.

The problem that I see in Australia is that the people, as a whole, do not understand the responsibilities of governance that they all have. They do not understand that the governance responsibility begins and ends with themselves. If they will not accept the responsibility of their own governance, then they will advocate that that responsibility is someone else's responsibility, and, unfortunately the people, who are elected to the governance responsibility for the people, realty do not want that governance responsibility, by believing that they too should only be interested in only their own well being and use their position of "authority" as a means of having their snout in the feed trough for as long as they can.

This is true for any form of governance model practiced throughout the world.

People all around the world have a general inwards looking understanding of how things should be, even "Christians," with very few practicing the outward looking model that God wants for the people of the earth.

The world needs people who have God's understanding of how governance works and not people who believe that their "flawed" model of governance is the one that should be followed within their patch of influence. How that is accomplished is usually at the point of a gun with the one banishing the gun(s), on the people, becoming like little "gods" in their own minds. Even on this forum, we encounter this phenomenon among some of the members who want control/a power base among the members using words instead of the sword/gun to get their own way. Getting change in the people is resisted at all costs.

Be that as it may be, there are some on this forum who do have understanding but their understanding is not always welcomed.

Shalom
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Re: Is America headed towards Dictatorship?

Postby keithareilly on Tue Jan 14, 2020 5:16 pm

Hi Mr Baldy,

Me response was to your question, not about politics.

I know you love facts... So here we go.

The Facts:
Observe that the Democratic Party started taxing the people in the name of "Doing Good" nearly a hundred years ago when Social Security began. FDR needed money for his NEW DEAL programs. How do you tax people during the Great Depression and not make them angry? You sell the idea to the people that the taxes are for the elderly who can not work. Tax the people, give a few dollars to the elderly who qualified, then fund his NEW DEAL programs through the remaining tax dollars collected but not given to the elderly. It is why Social Security is a Pay-As-You-Go-program not a savings/retirement plan, and why tax dollars of the working still go to those retired instead of in an account for those paying the tax. "Social" Security is a "Social"ist policy. Nothing has changed in the Democratic party in nearly a hundred years.

(As an aside: I suspect the modern equivalent is likely "Global Warming"and I suspect taxes for it are to be used to fund the globalist agendas; thus we have Global warming as a Global Issue. Ever thought about why AOC has labelled her program the "GREEN NEW DEAL")

About Democratic Party.
There name describe them. Democrats do not support the republic set up in the constitution. The evidence is they want to do away with the electoral college and have changed many senators from being appointed by the state governments to being elected by the people thus forcing them to answer to the people instead of the State government. Senators are suppose to represent their state government, not the people; the House represents the people. The forces they are applying are to remove the checks and balances on Democracy. In the senate, all states have the same voting power; in the House of Representatives, the states with large populations have a greater number of representatives and therefore a greater power in the vote. The Senate is a check and balance on the House; the House is the peoples check and balance on the few people in the Senate, which could be easily corrupted. It is also why the Democratic party is the party that wants to eliminate gun ownership rights of the citizens. They do not want individuals to have power, they want power from the majority without any checks and balances. The goals of the Democratic party is to change us from a Republic to a Democracy. There policies line up with this. How successful is this strategy? Ask yourself when the last time you heard the media refer to the USA as a Republic instead of a Democracy? Yet, we are not and never have been a Democracy, we are a Representative Republic.

Democracy is: two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch.
This is evidenced by the 14 "errors" made by the department of Justice to convince the FISA courts there was Good Cause to investigate Trump. It did not matter that Trump, a citizen, had rights and should only be investigated based upon Good Cause. They fabricated documents to support there stance there was Good Cause and made 14 "errors" to convince there check and balance, the FISA Court, there was Good Cause. Biden's confession to withholding government money to get the prosecutor in the Ukraine fired who was investigating Burisma, thus resulting in personal gain for his son, Hunter, is, therefore, Good Cause to investigate Biden. But, now they are impeaching Trump because the Good Cause for investigating Biden happened to align with Trumps personal gain. So we have two evidences the Democratic party does not care that citizens can and should be investigated if and only if there is Good Cause. 1) Manufacture Good Cause and make 14 "errors" to convince the FISA court, there check and balance, there is Good Cause, 2) Ignore Good Cause for investigating Biden, and blame Trump for abusing power for acting upon Good Cause. In both instances, the Democratic party is demonstrating they do not care about Good Cause, the only thing justifying any investigation of any US citizen. Thus they are providing evidence they are not concerned about the individual right, Good Cause, and are willing to ignore the individual right, Good Cause, when it is to their advantage. Trump, is not a Democrat, therefore, he has no rights and can be investigate without Good Cause even if Good Cause must be manufacture to get past the checks and balances of the FISA court. Biden is a Democrat and is therefore exempt from investigation even when Good Cause exists and if you investigate an elite democrat such as Joe/Hunter Biden, you will be removed from office whether you are a prosecutor or a president.

Do you recall Trump offered a path to citizenship for Dreamers, illegal alien children brought here by their parents? The Democrats rejected the path. Why? Because the Democratic Party continues to promote illegal immigration which is creating a second class of people in the USA who live in Fear of the Government because they have been encouraged to be criminals. Why does the Democratic party want to create a second class of people who live in Fear of the Government? Because there are no individual rights in a Democracy; therefore, why worry about people living in fear of the government?

Democracy is: " Two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch".

This topic is the Question: "Is America Headed towards a Dictatorship?"
I have provided evidence about how it is we are heading toward a dictatorship. It is not about politics. It is about answering your question with a conclusion based upon nearly a hundred years of evidence.

Summary:
We have been headed toward a dictatorship similar to the USSR, Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, since FDR put "Social" Security in place. Socialism is our path to becoming the USSR, "United States Socialist Republic".


Keith
Last edited by keithareilly on Tue Jan 14, 2020 9:46 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Is America headed towards Dictatorship?

Postby shorttribber on Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:03 pm

Super,truth and facts. Something that no longer exists in the main
sewer media. Fox is the only real news ,or that is the closest to it.
The Wisest men have changed their Counsels and Resolves upon second thoughts, much more upon experience, and approaching evils not at first discovered. Rev. Herbert Croft, 1675

Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counsellors there is safety.

Find seven years of tribulation plainly stated in the Bible.
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Re: Is America headed towards Dictatorship?

Postby keithareilly on Tue Jan 14, 2020 9:18 pm

Mr Baldy wrote

Then we also have an issue with the current Republican Party - in that the "Rule of Law" is being ignored by way of not abiding by Court-Ordered Subpoenas. This appears to have members within the Republican Party to be loyal to "a person" who has been duly elected to rule this party - and not the Constitution of the United States. This also is very dangerous.


I am not aware of any court ordered subpoenas that have been ignored by either party except those where a conflict occurs between executive privilege and congressional powers. In such cases the United States vs AT&T decisions is the courts will only intervene when the two parties fail to reach an accommodation. To my knowledge, the congress has not asked the courts to intervene when no accommodation was reached.

Do you have any examples of either party not complying with a subpoena when they was no invoking of executive privilege or when the court intervened and ordered the party to comply and the party failed to comply?
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Re: Is America headed towards Dictatorship?

Postby Exit40 on Wed Jan 15, 2020 5:59 am

shorttribber wrote:Super,truth and facts. Something that no longer exists in the main
sewer media. Fox is the only real news ,or that is the closest to it.


Dan 8:12 And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered.

God Bless You

David
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God

T'was Grace that taught my heart to fear.
And Grace, my fears relieved.
How precious did that Grace appear
The hour I first believed.
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Re: Is America headed towards Dictatorship?

Postby GodsStudent on Wed Jan 15, 2020 8:10 am

I just wanted to commend several of you for excellent remarks and observations (occurring since my last post). Bravo!
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Re: Is America headed towards Dictatorship?

Postby Mr Baldy on Wed Jan 15, 2020 6:55 pm

Jericho wrote: I don't know how involved you are in the political process, but not caring whose elected is actually a good recipe for a dictatorship.


Hi Jericho - and to the rest of you who have provided comments. Thanks :mrgreen:

Jericho, as far as what has been written, I'll comment on what you posted and just leave the rest of the comments with no response, as I have clearly stated my position.

The aforementioned comment you made scratches the surface of why I posed the question on the Subject of this Thread.

Now, lets take a look at Romans 13 - and then I'll respond to what you have written.

Romans 13:1-2 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

Be Subject to Government

13) Every person is to be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God. 2) Therefore whoever resists authority has opposed the ordinance of God; and they who have opposed will receive condemnation upon themselves.


Okay - now that we have Scripture....let's revisit your comments. But first I'd like to say that it truly amazes me when I hear comments, or see words written by folk who do so with an apparent understanding of the current Fallen World we live in. Very often these statements or comments are made without considering what Scripture has said - and as if man is in control.

Well the Truth of the Matter is - WE'RE NOT.

God is in CONTROL - whether we want to accept this, attempt to understand it, relate to it; embrace it - or even like it. It doesn't matter. Man has very egotistically always felt that he needs to intervene either by self-made proclamations; revelations; visions; signs - or by word of mouth from other men into the affairs of God. If man can just put his self importance on the back shelf; read Scripture and obey - then God will surely be in control of his life.

I see comments in this thread relating to Partisanship - even accusing me of being "biased." Well, again, I am not. And I don't care about Political Parties - or what they represent. I have posted a portion of Romans 13 which is very clear, concise, and very informative as to how a believer should view Government. So what does it matter to a believer if a Dictatorship should come? If I have put my trust in Christ - then the rest will follow. I'll obey the governing authorities; however, it is God who is in control of my life, and in Scripture I will abide. He will direct my paths.

I don't bother to get myself involved in endless debates over Political Parties, who's doing what and who's not - They are ALL LIARS. I believe that believers should vote - and vote according to what is written in Scripture. However, if any believer thinks or believes being involved in Politics will hinder the pathway of the coming Antichrist from rising to power, and subsequently rule the Entire World - then perhaps it is a good time to revisit Scripture.
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Re: Is America headed towards Dictatorship?

Postby keithareilly on Wed Jan 15, 2020 7:51 pm

Hi Mr Baldy,

Daniel 2:21 King James Version (KJV)
21 And he changeth the times and the seasons: he removeth kings, and setteth up kings: he giveth wisdom unto the wise, and knowledge to them that know understanding:

So, was it rebels who setup the USA, those rebelling against God's authority through England? Or was it those obeying God and doing God's will: removing a ruler and setting up another?

Would the evidence be that if the rebellion is successful then it is God's will; but, if not then it is rebellion? If we don't know until it is over, how do we know which side to take before it is over?

Keith
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Re: Is America headed towards Dictatorship?

Postby Jericho on Wed Jan 15, 2020 10:07 pm

Mr Baldy wrote:Well the Truth of the Matter is - WE'RE NOT.

God is in CONTROL - whether we want to accept this, attempt to understand it, relate to it; embrace it - or even like it. It doesn't matter. Man has very egotistically always felt that he needs to intervene either by self-made proclamations; revelations; visions; signs - or by word of mouth from other men into the affairs of God. If man can just put his self importance on the back shelf; read Scripture and obey - then God will surely be in control of his life.


Hello Mr. Baldy. Thank you for your comments. I have a slightly different perspective, so we probably wont agree on this point. But I don't believe God is in control of all things. That's not to say God couldn't control all things if He wanted. But He has given his creation quite a bit of autonomy and free will to act independently of His Will, even in so much as to rebel against Him. Things happen everyday that are not His will to happen. If God were in control of all things the Earth would not be in the mess it is now.

I believe God gave us authority over this Earth to have domination over it to act as governors. However, when Adam fell it allowed Satan to usurp some of that authority and become a squatter on planet earth. That is why he is called the god of the world (2Co 4:4), and the whole world is under his control (1Jo 5:19). Now I do think God will be in control one day, but not until He establishes His kingdom during the Millennial Reign.

In regards to Romans 13 it is important to note how it defines governing authorities established by God: "Rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil"... For he is "God's minister" to you "for good". This would then exclude certain governments, especially those that are tyrannical such as in North Korea. If a government is evil and does not have the best intentions for its people, then it is not established by God. It should also be remembered that Satan also has a kingdom and appoints leaders, for example the future Antichrist.

Now clearly God can establish rulers, the question is to what extent. The Bible is not clear on this. I don't believe he appoints every single ruler at the national, state, and local levels. If that is the case there would be no point in voting as everything would be predetermined. I don't believe this is the case. He has given us the authority to govern ourselves for a finite period of time. If a dictatorship does arise it will be because we have allowed it to happen.
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Re: Is America headed towards Dictatorship?

Postby Mr Baldy on Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:35 am

keithareilly wrote:Would the evidence be that if the rebellion is successful then it is God's will; but, if not then it is rebellion? If we don't know until it is over, how do we know which side to take before it is over?


Perhaps we should begin by Trusting in God and allowing Him to control and guide our lives. It's not a matter of "taking sides."
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Re: Is America headed towards Dictatorship?

Postby Mr Baldy on Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:38 am

Jericho wrote:But I don't believe God is in control of all things.


Here in lies the problem, and the root cause of the reason why most don't allow God to control their lives.
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Re: Is America headed towards Dictatorship?

Postby Exit40 on Thu Jan 16, 2020 7:35 am

Mr Baldy wrote:
Perhaps we should begin by Trusting in God and allowing Him to control and guide our lives. It's not a matter of "taking sides."

Here in lies the problem, and the root cause of the reason why most don't allow God to control their lives.


Well said Mr B. The issue I see is the collective 'we' don't want to govern our own selves, but rather others. This is in fact, in my opinion, usurping God's authority over us, and the collective 'we' actually becomes antichrist in nature. I have to wonder since when has so many have become political experts, deciding the fate of us all with no action to resolve issues. All talk, no cattle, just hat and belt buckle, as the saying goes. What can actually be accomplished by so much turmoil of politics in peoples daily lives ? Division seems the answer, and unhappiness and mistrust, to no end. Learning to give up our supposed control of anything and others is the greatest measure of Faith, trust in our Almighty God who can not only guide the big things, but down to the smallest also. Who knows how things will work out, when we take that from Him ? But with great Patience, allowing Him to guide and work in our lives, it all comes to good for those of us who Love Him. This brings on a great testing, for our Father will not give until we give up, that which is His alone, until He sees our learning to Trust Him. See, it's not about us, but about ALL of us. We have to learn to be a team player, in Him alone, and be patient for His guidance, and the outcome He provides. It might take a lifetime, or come about quickly, who knows ? But when we see Him working in our lives, we Believe Him and Trust Him, with our lives. And we can then live the abundant life He gives to us. Amen.

Ecc 3:22 So I perceived that nothing is better than that a man should rejoice in his own works, for that is his heritage. For who can bring him to see what will happen after him?

God Bless
'
David
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God

T'was Grace that taught my heart to fear.
And Grace, my fears relieved.
How precious did that Grace appear
The hour I first believed.
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Re: Is America headed towards Dictatorship?

Postby Exit40 on Thu Jan 16, 2020 7:57 am

Mr Baldy wrote:
Perhaps we should begin by Trusting in God and allowing Him to control and guide our lives. It's not a matter of "taking sides."

Here in lies the problem, and the root cause of the reason why most don't allow God to control their lives.


Well said Mr B. The issue I see is the collective 'we' don't want to govern our own selves, but rather others. This is in fact, in my opinion, usurping God's authority over us, and the collective 'we' actually becomes antichrist in nature. I have to wonder since when has so many have become political experts, deciding the fate of us all with no action to resolve issues. All talk, no cattle, just hat and belt buckle, as the saying goes. What can actually be accomplished by so much turmoil of politics in peoples daily lives ? Division seems the answer, and unhappiness and mistrust, to no end. Learning to give up our supposed control of anything and others is the greatest measure of Faith, trust in our Almighty God who can not only guide the big things, but down to the smallest also. Who knows how things will work out, when we take that from Him ? But with great Patience, allowing Him to guide and work in our lives, it all comes to good for those of us who Love Him. This brings on a great testing, for our Father will not give until we give up, that which is His alone, until He sees our learning to Trust Him. See, it's not about us, but about ALL of us. We have to learn to be a team player, in Him alone, and be patient for His guidance, and the outcome He provides. It might take a lifetime, or come about quickly, who knows ? But when we see Him working in our lives, we Believe Him and Trust Him, with our lives. And we can then live the abundant life He gives to us. Amen.

Ecc 3:22 So I perceived that nothing is better than that a man should rejoice in his own works, for that is his heritage. For who can bring him to see what will happen after him?

God Bless
'
David
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God

T'was Grace that taught my heart to fear.
And Grace, my fears relieved.
How precious did that Grace appear
The hour I first believed.
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Re: Is America headed towards Dictatorship?

Postby GodsStudent on Thu Jan 16, 2020 8:22 am

:( America has a Constitution for a reason.
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Re: Is America headed towards Dictatorship?

Postby keithareilly on Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:57 pm

Mr Baldy wrote:
keithareilly wrote:Would the evidence be that if the rebellion is successful then it is God's will; but, if not then it is rebellion? If we don't know until it is over, how do we know which side to take before it is over?


Perhaps we should begin by Trusting in God and allowing Him to control and guide our lives. It's not a matter of "taking sides."

Galatians 5:22-23 New International Version (NIV)
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.

I have heard people talk about God being in control of their lives for as long as I have been a Christian. What I find most ironic about that view is the fruit of the Spirit is Self-Control. The fruit of God's Spirit grants me control of my own life. The fruit of the Spirit is not God-Control; it is Self-Control. It grants each of us freedom to control our own lives.

So a correct relationship with God grants freedom to do as we each choose to do.
If we break that relationship, then we loose the freedom, resulting in the loss of our own Self-Control of our actions.

The fruit of the Spirit is Self Control. Not God Control.

Amazing how many people do not recognize that Self Control, not God Control, is what the scriptures teach is the correct and proper fruitfulness of the right relationship with God, the Holy Spirit, living within us.

Jericho is correct, God is not seeking to control us; His desire and goal is: we control ourselves.

Also Note: This means that God is not a Dictator.




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Re: Is America headed towards Dictatorship?

Postby Mr Baldy on Thu Jan 16, 2020 5:00 pm

Exit40 wrote:Well said Mr B. The issue I see is the collective 'we' don't want to govern our own selves, but rather others. This is in fact, in my opinion, usurping God's authority over us, and the collective 'we' actually becomes antichrist in nature. I have to wonder since when has so many have become political experts, deciding the fate of us all with no action to resolve issues. All talk, no cattle, just hat and belt buckle, as the saying goes. What can actually be accomplished by so much turmoil of politics in peoples daily lives ? Division seems the answer, and unhappiness and mistrust, to no end. Learning to give up our supposed control of anything and others is the greatest measure of Faith, trust in our Almighty God who can not only guide the big things, but down to the smallest also. Who knows how things will work out, when we take that from Him ? But with great Patience, allowing Him to guide and work in our lives, it all comes to good for those of us who Love Him. This brings on a great testing, for our Father will not give until we give up, that which is His alone, until He sees our learning to Trust Him. See, it's not about us, but about ALL of us. We have to learn to be a team player, in Him alone, and be patient for His guidance, and the outcome He provides. It might take a lifetime, or come about quickly, who knows ? But when we see Him working in our lives, we Believe Him and Trust Him, with our lives. And we can then live the abundant life He gives to us. Amen. Ecc 3:22 So I perceived that nothing is better than that a man should rejoice in his own works, for that is his heritage. For who can bring him to see what will happen after him?

God Bless' David


:a3:

:clap2: Absolutely AWESOME David!
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Re: Is America headed towards Dictatorship?

Postby Mr Baldy on Thu Jan 16, 2020 5:08 pm

GodsStudent wrote::( America has a Constitution for a reason.


Exactly -

And a point in the topic of this thread is that there are those who are trying to defy the Constitution. Stay tuned..... more on this matter is arising.
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Re: Is America headed towards Dictatorship?

Postby Mr Baldy on Thu Jan 16, 2020 6:00 pm

keithareilly wrote:I have heard people talk about God being in control of their lives for as long as I have been a Christian. What I find most ironic about that view is the fruit of the Spirit is Self-Control. The fruit of God's Spirit grants me control of my own life. The fruit of the Spirit is not God-Control; it is Self-Control. It grants each of us freedom to control our own lives.


Hi Keith - I think you may be missing something here and you are giving man too much credit...……

It is the Holy Spirit that indwells the believer which makes "self-control" possible. The Holy Spirt is God - therefore the fruit that man produces is a direct result of the Spirit of God working and living in him. This makes a believer God controlled; provided that he remains in Him.

Here are a couple of verses to consider:

Romans 8:9 - New American Standard Bible (NASB)

However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.


Galatians 5:16 - New American Standard Bible (NASB)

But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh.


keithareilly wrote:So a correct relationship with God grants freedom to do as we each choose to do


I respectfully wholeheartedly disagree with this comment. Jesus said if we love Him we will keep His Commandments. (John 14:15)

Man in himself has absolutely NO desire to do the will of God - we All want "do as we each choose to do."

Romans 3:10-12 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

10) As it is written,

“There is none righteous, not even one;

11) There is none who understands, There is none who seeks for God;

12) All have turned aside, together they have become useless; There is none who does good, There is not even one.”


God may grant us the freedom of "Choice" but it is NOT a "correct relationship" with Him to do as we choose.

keithareilly wrote:If we break that relationship, then we loose the freedom, resulting in the loss of our own Self-Control of our actions.

:humm:

keithareilly wrote:The fruit of the Spirit is Self Control. Not God Control.


Again...here you miss something. If God is not in control of a believers life it is not an example of self-control. One would actually be "out of control" living a sinful depraved life. The Holy Spirit of God gives the believer "self-control" as it is God's Spirit that indwells him and produces such fruit. It is the "Fruit of the Spirt" - God's Spirit.

keithareilly wrote:Amazing how many people do not recognize that Self Control, not God Control, is what the scriptures teach is the correct and proper fruitfulness of the right relationship with God, the Holy Spirit, living within us


Who do you think gives a believer "self control?" - it certainly isn't himself. Again, man absolutely cannot boast about anything he does, nor take any credit for any good works he produces. It is the Holy Spirit within the believer that produces such works.

Ephesians 2:8-10 - New American Standard Bible (NASB)

8) For by grace you have been saved through faith; and ]that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9) not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10) For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.


keithareilly wrote:Jericho is correct, God is not seeking to control us; His desire and goal is: we control ourselves.


How can any man control himself without the Spirit of God indwelling inside him?

Scripture says that "No one seeks God;" "We ALL fall short of the Glory of God;" - and "our righteousness is as filthy rags."

I think that when we "feel" or "believe" that we can do things on our own - then we put ourselves in the place of Christ. If man feels, thinks, or believes that he can save himself - then there is no need for a Savior.
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Re: Is America headed towards Dictatorship?

Postby keithareilly on Thu Jan 16, 2020 7:11 pm

It is like this Mr Baldy,

Mat 16:25
"For whoever wishes to save his life will lose it; but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it.

We submit our lives to God and the result is freedom. Thus, is the fruit of the Spirit is Self Control; not God Control.

Recall Jesus called his disciples his friends, no longer his servants.
You have to control your servants; but, you do not need to control your friends.

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Re: Is America headed towards Dictatorship?

Postby Mr Baldy on Fri Jan 17, 2020 5:15 am

keithareilly wrote:We submit our lives to God and the result is freedom. Thus, is the fruit of the Spirit is Self Control; not God Control.


Hi Keith,

We have a fundamental difference of Scriptural interpretation here...…..

Let's take this to a spiritual level - as those who worship God must worship Him in Spirit and Truth.(John 4:24)

Again, you are giving man way too much credit. The "Fruit of the Spirit" - in which one of the gifts is "Self Control" comes from the Spirit of God. When the Holy Spirit indwells a believer they WILL produce Fruit - this is evidence that the Spirit of God dwells in him. Fallen man, cannot bear fruit because the Spirit of God is not in him. Man cannot bear fruit on his own - if this were so, there would be no need for a Savior.

John 15:5 - New American Standard Bible (NASB)

I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing.


A believer MUST allow the Holy Spirit to control his life. We give up our lives and sinful desires to follow Him.

Matthew 16:24 -Then Jesus said to His disciples, “If anyone wishes to come after Me, he must deny himself, and take up his cross and follow Me.


You actually follow up this verse by mentioning this:
keithareilly wrote:Mat 16:25"For whoever wishes to save his life will lose it; but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it.


Show me a person who has identified themselves as a believer - and has not allowed the Holy Spirit to be in control of their life, and you will clearly see a depraved, fallen individual - and at the very best a Carnal Christian.
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Re: Is America headed towards Dictatorship?

Postby Sonbeam on Fri Jan 17, 2020 8:31 am

Mr Baldy wrote:
GodsStudent wrote::( America has a Constitution for a reason.


Exactly -

And a point in the topic of this thread is that there are those who are trying to defy the Constitution. Stay tuned..... more on this matter is arising.



Mr Baldy,

Who is trying to defy the Constitution and how, in your opinion?

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Re: Is America headed towards Dictatorship?

Postby keithareilly on Fri Jan 17, 2020 7:39 pm

Mr Baldy wrote ...
I see comments in this thread relating to Partisanship - even accusing me of being "biased." Well, again, I am not. And I don't care about Political Parties - or what they represent. I have posted a portion of Romans 13 which is very clear, concise, and very informative as to how a believer should view Government. So what does it matter to a believer if a Dictatorship should come? If I have put my trust in Christ - then the rest will follow. I'll obey the governing authorities; however, it is God who is in control of my life, and in Scripture I will abide. He will direct my paths.


Acts 5:27-32
27When they had brought them, they stood them before the Council. The high priest questioned them, 28saying, “We gave you strict orders not to continue teaching in this name, and yet, you have filled Jerusalem with your teaching and intend to bring this man’s blood upon us.” 29But Peter and the apostles answered, “We must obey God rather than men. 30“The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom you had put to death by hanging Him on a cross. 31“He is the one whom God exalted to His right hand as a Prince and a Savior, to grant repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins. 32“And we are witnesses of these things; and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey Him.”


Are you arguing the apostles should have obeyed the High Priest and the council and discontinued teaching about Christ?
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Re: Is America headed towards Dictatorship?

Postby keithareilly on Sun Jan 19, 2020 5:46 am

Hi Mr Baldy,


I am hoping you are considering my question instead of ignoring it.
Why? Because: Narrow is the way which leadeth unto life (Matt 7:14)
The road is narrow because walls exist on each side. (a Metaphor)
You have discussed one wall, I am now asking you about the other.

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Re: Is America headed towards Dictatorship?

Postby Mr Baldy on Sun Jan 19, 2020 7:50 am

Sonbeam wrote:Who is trying to defy the Constitution and how, in your opinion?


Hi Sonbeam,

Let's not look at who - and pay attention to what is going on. There are many "who's."

I will simply mention this - and leave it up to those who have been following this Thread to make up there own minds.

But first we must understand what the Constitution of the United States is:

Preamble:

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.


The Constitution of the United Sates is the Supreme Law of the land. In the Preamble "We the People" affirm that the government of the United States exists to serve its citizens - and not individuals in any partisan form of Government, and certainly not for one's own self-interest.

Member's of Congress who have directly defied Congressional Subpoenas are in direct violation of what has been established in the United States Constitution. Refusal to comply with congressional demands for witness testimony and documents in its impeachment investigation is a direct defiance of the United States Constitution. I don't think anyone would disagree with this. To directly defy congressional demands is obstruction of an impeachment investigation. If any common person were to even disregard any local subpoena from a Municipal Court - we'd be thrown in jail. No one should be above the law.

I'll close by quoting the Great President Abraham Lincoln regarding the United States Constitution:

The only safeguard of our liberties.”
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Re: Is America headed towards Dictatorship?

Postby Mr Baldy on Sun Jan 19, 2020 8:08 am

keithareilly wrote:Mr Baldy wrote ...
I see comments in this thread relating to Partisanship - even accusing me of being "biased." Well, again, I am not. And I don't care about Political Parties - or what they represent. I have posted a portion of Romans 13 which is very clear, concise, and very informative as to how a believer should view Government. So what does it matter to a believer if a Dictatorship should come? If I have put my trust in Christ - then the rest will follow. I'll obey the governing authorities; however, it is God who is in control of my life, and in Scripture I will abide. He will direct my paths.


Acts 5:27-32
27When they had brought them, they stood them before the Council. The high priest questioned them, 28saying, “We gave you strict orders not to continue teaching in this name, and yet, you have filled Jerusalem with your teaching and intend to bring this man’s blood upon us.” 29But Peter and the apostles answered, “We must obey God rather than men. 30“The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom you had put to death by hanging Him on a cross. 31“He is the one whom God exalted to His right hand as a Prince and a Savior, to grant repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins. 32“And we are witnesses of these things; and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey Him.”


Are you arguing the apostles should have obeyed the High Priest and the council and discontinued teaching about Christ?


Hi Keith -

Not sure I'm understanding your point here. :humm:

What I wrote - and the Scripture you are making reference to work hand in glove. There is one thing to keep in mind. Romans 13 commands us to be "in subjection of the governing authorities" - however, God SUPERCEDES ALL man-made rules, laws, or ordinances.

For example - on your job you are asked to be in subjection of the rules of your business. However, if your supervisor, boss, or anyone having authority over you gives you a direct order to do something illegal, unethical, immoral - would you carryout the act because you are in subjection to your boss, or would you do what God has ordained?
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Re: Is America headed towards Dictatorship?

Postby keithareilly on Sun Jan 19, 2020 11:34 am

H Mr Baldy,

Thanks for the clarification.

This is why voting matters. We vote for those who are willing to let us do God's will and we vote against those who oppose God's will. Consequently, our vote is how each of us see doing God's will.

Not that we do not disagree on who and when and why. But our faith does affect for whom we vote.
And as we see this country heading toward a dictatorship, we vote to oppose it. And even though we vote to oppose it, those for whom we vote may turn it into one.

Paul used his Roman Citizen rights, we each use our rights in our own countries.




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Re: Is America headed towards Dictatorship?

Postby shorttribber on Sun Jan 19, 2020 9:54 pm

keithareilly wrote:Mr Baldy wrote

Then we also have an issue with the current Republican Party - in that the "Rule of Law" is being ignored by way of not abiding by Court-Ordered Subpoenas. This appears to have members within the Republican Party to be loyal to "a person" who has been duly elected to rule this party - and not the Constitution of the United States. This also is very dangerous.


I am not aware of any court ordered subpoenas that have been ignored by either party except those where a conflict occurs between executive privilege and congressional powers. In such cases the United States vs AT&T decisions is the courts will only intervene when the two parties fail to reach an accommodation. To my knowledge, the congress has not asked the courts to intervene when no accommodation was reached.

Do you have any examples of either party not complying with a subpoena when they was no invoking of executive privilege or when the court intervened and ordered the party to comply and the party failed to comply?


This is absolutely Correct!

Our president is not under Any Obligation whatsoever to comply with any Subpoenas issued by an Unconstitutional Deep State.

And THAT Is the Truth.

For further clarification on that, THAT will be explained in full by a Democratic scholar (Alan Dershowitz) who is DEFENDING the president against the Onslaught of Deep State Liars.
The Wisest men have changed their Counsels and Resolves upon second thoughts, much more upon experience, and approaching evils not at first discovered. Rev. Herbert Croft, 1675

Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counsellors there is safety.

Find seven years of tribulation plainly stated in the Bible.
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Re: Is America headed towards Dictatorship?

Postby Mr Baldy on Mon Jan 20, 2020 4:50 am

shorttribber wrote:Our president is not under Any Obligation whatsoever to comply with any Subpoenas issued by an Unconstitutional Deep State. And THAT Is the Truth. For further clarification on that, THAT will be explained in full by a Democratic scholar (Alan Dershowitz) who is DEFENDING the president against the Onslaught of Deep State Liars.


Alan Dershowitz - :humm: - Yeah, the same man who represented OJ right?

Emotions aside - we must look at things objectively, and in the lenses of Christianity.

Last I checked, those Subpoenas were issued by Federally appointed Judges. Whether anyone likes it or not, we have laws and our Constitution in place for a reason - and it must be obeyed. No one is above the Law. When you have a society that feels as if they can do as they please, and disregard the law - then you have lawlessness, and a society that is ripe for a Dictator.

Lets Keep Christ on the Throne.
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Re: Is America headed towards Dictatorship?

Postby keithareilly on Mon Jan 20, 2020 7:29 am

Keith previously wrote ...
I am not aware of any court ordered subpoenas that have been ignored by either party except those where a conflict occurs between executive privilege and congressional powers. In such cases the United States vs AT&T decisions is the courts will only intervene when the two parties fail to reach an accommodation. To my knowledge, the congress has not asked the courts to intervene when no accommodation was reached.

Do you have any examples of either party not complying with a subpoena when they was no invoking of executive privilege or when the court intervened and ordered the party to comply and the party failed to comply?


Mr Baldy wrote...

Last I checked, those Subpoenas were issued by Federally appointed Judges. Whether anyone likes it or not, we have laws and our Constitution in place for a reason - and it must be obeyed. No one is above the Law. When you have a society that feels as if they can do as they please, and disregard the law - then you have lawlessness, and a society that is ripe for a Dictator.


Below is a link to an article from lawfareblog.com about executive privilege vs congressional powers. It is about a year old, so what congress has done in the past year is not addressed; it contains some history, opinions, and some references. I have posted the conclusion below; nevertheless the article contains interesting details; it is worth reading.

Congressional Subpoena Power and Executive Privilege: The Coming Showdown Between the Branches

Conclusion

Disputes between Congress and the president over the scope of executive privilege are better understood as political battles with legal underpinnings—not as pure legal battles to be decided in court. It remains to be seen how effective Congress’s constitutional tools will be, but it is a pretty safe bet that using these tools effectively will require time, energy and commitment. In short, each side will have to consider what it can reasonably get away with in the current political environment—even as each side uses the processes associated with the interbranch push-and-pull of executive privilege to shape that environment.


Shorttrib wrote ...
For further clarification on that, THAT will be explained in full by a Democratic scholar (Alan Dershowitz) who is DEFENDING the president against the Onslaught of Deep State Liars.


Mentioned in the article ...

Nonetheless, it is noteworthy that literally thousands of documents were, in fact, turned over to Mueller and the committees—even though apparently many of them were considered by Trump’s lawyers to be subject to executive privilege.
...
These events underscore the unique circumstances of this exchange between the executive and legislative branches, in which the requests by Nunes were widely perceived to be supported by the president
even as they were opposed by the Justice Department.


When a dictatorship is in place, there will no longer be checks and balances on any of those in power.

If one supports removing the checks and balances, like forcing the executive branch to comply regardless of executive privilege, or supports the Supreme Court using decisions to rule over the people instead of using laws passed by Congress, then that person supports a dictatorship because they do not support checks and balances on those in power.

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Re: Is America headed towards Dictatorship?

Postby Jericho on Mon Jan 20, 2020 9:24 am

Mr Baldy wrote:Last I checked, those Subpoenas were issued by Federally appointed Judges. Whether anyone likes it or not, we have laws and our Constitution in place for a reason - and it must be obeyed. No one is above the Law. When you have a society that feels as if they can do as they please, and disregard the law - then you have lawlessness, and a society that is ripe for a Dictator.


I'm not sure which subpoenas you are referring to or the exact time-frame, but I do recall the House was trying to subpoena people while they were conducting their impeachment "inquiry". However, an impeachment and impeachment inquiry are not he same thing, and there was no legal basis for the Executive branch to cooperate with an inquiry. A House vote was necessary to legitimatize the process and there was no vote given at the time.

Even lawful laws can be abused. It's within in the House's powers to present impeachment articles to the Senate. But it's apparent to me the whole process has been a partisan political stunt intended to damage the president's chances for re-election. It is IMO an abuse of power. Regardless, the Senate is going along with it, for now, so I don't see any laws not being obeyed.
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Re: Is America headed towards Dictatorship?

Postby keithareilly on Mon Jan 20, 2020 9:50 am

Jericho wrote:
Mr Baldy wrote:Last I checked, those Subpoenas were issued by Federally appointed Judges. Whether anyone likes it or not, we have laws and our Constitution in place for a reason - and it must be obeyed. No one is above the Law. When you have a society that feels as if they can do as they please, and disregard the law - then you have lawlessness, and a society that is ripe for a Dictator.


I'm not sure which subpoenas you are referring to or the exact time-frame, but I do recall the House was trying to subpoena people while they were conducting their impeachment "inquiry". However, an impeachment and impeachment inquiry are not he same thing, and there was no legal basis for the Executive branch to cooperate with an inquiry. A House vote was necessary to legitimatize the process and there was no vote given at the time.

Even lawful laws can be abused. It's within in the House's powers to present impeachment articles to the Senate. But it's apparent to me the whole process has been a partisan political stunt intended to damage the president's chances for re-election. It is IMO an abuse of power. Regardless, the Senate is going along with it, for now, so I don't see any laws not being obeyed.


Mr Baldy has yet to provide evidence of his statement which was requested a few days ago in a prior response.
He may not be able to find any that are outside the conflict of powers between three (3) branches of government. So he may not be able to provide any evidence.

There is a reason those who pass laws, those who judge laws, and those who execute laws are three separate different branches of government; it prevents those from passing laws to execute them and judge the laws as constitutional, it prevents those from judging laws from putting laws in place execute them, it prevents those who execute them from putting the laws in place and judging laws as unfit and therefore can be ignored. The conflict resulting from the three branches is about a struggle between the powers, and those who want us to be dictator and have what they say put in place without judgement and be executed without any checks and balances.

What we are seeing is an attempt to take us toward a dictatorship and that attempt may not result in the dictatorship of those seeking it; but, a dictatorship of those who might win over those pursuing it.

Historically, Supreme Court Judges are the path to prevent or to promote a dictatorship. When the supreme court makes rulings that undermining the constitution, such as restricting gun ownership in cities, or allowing senators to be elected instead of appointed, these rulings are the path that undermines the checks and balances and thus leads to one branch gaining power over others. Currently, there is lawsuit in place where electoral college members are being forced to adhere to state laws about for whom they can vote. The lawsuit seeks to remove the electoral member from voting for whom he chooses, instead the lawsuit wants to dictate (get it, dictate) for whom the electoral college member can vote. The lawsuit is because certain members of the electoral college did not vote according to laws passed in the states they represented. However, constitutional laws override state laws, except when the Supreme court decides to ignore the constitution as the higher authority it proclaims to be, which they have a tendency to do, just as they makes decisions the federal government has powers it does not have. This is why appointing judges is such a powerful step to avoid or to step toward a dictatorship.

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Re: Is America headed towards Dictatorship?

Postby Sonbeam on Mon Jan 20, 2020 10:27 am

Mr Baldy wrote:
Sonbeam wrote:Who is trying to defy the Constitution and how, in your opinion?


Hi Sonbeam,

Let's not look at who - and pay attention to what is going on. There are many "who's."

I will simply mention this - and leave it up to those who have been following this Thread to make up there own minds.

But first we must understand what the Constitution of the United States is:

Preamble:

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.


The Constitution of the United Sates is the Supreme Law of the land. In the Preamble "We the People" affirm that the government of the United States exists to serve its citizens - and not individuals in any partisan form of Government, and certainly not for one's own self-interest.

Member's of Congress who have directly defied Congressional Subpoenas are in direct violation of what has been established in the United States Constitution. Refusal to comply with congressional demands for witness testimony and documents in its impeachment investigation is a direct defiance of the United States Constitution. I don't think anyone would disagree with this. To directly defy congressional demands is obstruction of an impeachment investigation. If any common person were to even disregard any local subpoena from a Municipal Court - we'd be thrown in jail. No one should be above the law.




Thank you for your response Mr Baldy. But I see that others on this thread have the same questions I had on
my mind about the comments you've made as highlighted above.

I'll be looking for your response.

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Re: Is America headed towards Dictatorship?

Postby Mr Baldy on Mon Jan 20, 2020 1:35 pm

Thanks all for you input in this matter. I greatly appreciate the feedback and information.

I believe at this juncture pin pointing matters that have already been the focal point of what we're seeing appears to be extremely redundant.

My goal in beginning this thread was to bring to the forefront what could actually happen here in America. Most think that America is too strong to fail; have a social breakdown; or become a Dictatorship - but I beg to differ.

I view things objectively, not through any political eyes - nor do I have any affiliation to any Political Party. I've mentioned this before, and I'll say it again...…. ALL Politicians are LIARS. I don't trust any of them. If anyone is looking for a "man" to meet his needs - whether it be financially, politically, emotionally, or for peace & stability - then this form of mindset is ripe for the coming Antichrist.

There are many, many more things that will happen as America is being shaped an formed into an entirely different World/Society. It's happening right before our very eyes, but most are either too blind to see it - or so wrapped up into their own political ideology that they can't even tell when they've been bamboozled.

Just stay tuned and keep your eyes & your mind open.

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Re: Is America headed towards Dictatorship?

Postby keithareilly on Mon Jan 20, 2020 3:02 pm

Mr Baldy,

You posted a question "Is America headed towards a dictatorship?".

People answered. And not a single person has answered "No". The only answer posted is "Yes" and others have agreed with that "Yes". But your feedback on this topic has been minimal and somewhat in contempt towards the opinions of those who have posted responses to your question and your contempt is due you seeing political affiliations in peoples views. In your last post you agree "Yes, We are heading towards a dictatorship".
So, apparently, we all agree we are headed towards a dictatorship.

So, please, observe people agree we are headed towards a dictatorship and post what you see and think instead of holding back and viewing others opinions as "bamboozled" due to political affiliations even when they agree with you in "Yes, we are headed towards a dictatorship".


Mr Baldy wrote ...
There are many, many more things that will happen as America is being shaped an formed into an entirely different World/Society. It's happening right before our very eyes, but most are either too blind to see it - or so wrapped up into their own political ideology that they can't even tell when they've been bamboozled.


So post what YOU see Mr Baldy and how YOU see us coming to a dictatorship.


Respectfully, Keith A Reilly
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Re: Is America headed towards Dictatorship?

Postby Mr Baldy on Tue Jan 21, 2020 11:08 am

Hi Keith,

Thank you for your comments and input...….but there are a few things that need to be cleared up for the record.

keithareilly wrote: But your feedback on this topic has been minimal and somewhat in contempt towards the opinions of those who have posted responses to your question and your contempt is due you seeing political affiliations in peoples views.


First of all I want to make it very clear that you will see no where I was "in contempt towards the opinions" of others. I respect each and every opinion, even if I don't agree with them - and especially if they don't agree with me. It's NOT about me. I think the problem here is interpretation. When a general comment is made about any particular topic; some have the habit of internalizing what has been written, instead of reading it for what it's worth. That often happens in Biblical interpretation as well (reading Scripture for what it's intended to say.) What you have seen me write have been generalizations - and absolutely none directed towards any individual in particular.

keithareilly wrote:So, please, observe people agree we are headed towards a dictatorship and post what you see and think instead of holding back and viewing others opinions as "bamboozled" due to political affiliations even when they agree with you in "Yes, we are headed towards a dictatorship".


Keith - respectfully, I think that it should be important for you to know that I don't care if people agree with me or not. This is not the purpose of posting Thread - nor should it be. It should ALWAYS be for the Glory of Christ, and for edification. I don't have an ego to bruise. Again, you have misinterpreted my intentions, and what I have written.

Another thing to point out here is when questions are posed in any given Thread - it should be for gathering information, facts, disagreements in opinion, and SHARING. None of us have a crystal ball in which we can predict the future. Let me also say that I am a man of peace. I hate any form of injustice......it literally makes me sick to my stomach. I observed it many times in my 27 year career as a law enforcement officer. All I ask is that people begin to look at things for what they are - use the mind that God has given them; not being persuaded by the thoughts and opinions of others, (without facts) or being united to any particular sect or group. I see this currently going on in today's society.

When one has the Holy Spirit of God leading and controlling every aspect of their lives - they will look First to see how God wants things done, and if they are not sure they will ask Him. We have lost this in this society in my opinion. People value money, position, titles, power, and control or persuasion over others. It's ridiculous.

So as far as your question about me posting what I see..... I have mentioned it before. However, I'll give you an example of how I see society apparently crumbling right before our eyes. People are not interested in how God applies in their lives, except perhaps on Sundays; or at Bible Study - or when they need something, or to get out of a fix. Then you hear them use Gods Name or invoke His Power exclusively. People in general want security - and anything that disrupts their way of living, they will be immediately ready to go to war.

Example:

If you were in your work place of about 3,000 Employees, and the CEO of your business demanded that everyone be stamped with an identifier to indicate that they are bound to the company, and/or loyal to it - by the end of the week, or else they will be fired. How many of those 3,000 Employee's do you think would take that stamp? Now the caveat to this example is identifying yourself to any entity of than God would be deemed a sin and will result in eternal damnation. Do you think people would be willing to make this sacrifice, or do you think that they would want to eat, feed their families and pay bills?

Remember what you said here:

keithareilly wrote:Mat 16:25"For whoever wishes to save his life will lose it; but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it.


Keep this in mind Keith. You see most people don't know what they want in this life, they don't understand or know their purpose, and they need someone to lead them. They need someone to tell them things, to teach them, and show them where to go, what to do and how to manage every aspect of their lives. This opens the door for some Charismatic person to rise to power, with the gift to orate say smooth lies and the folk get their ears tickled without knowing the underlying facts - therefore they are subsequently bamboozled. Wherever they can find security they will flock to it, and some will even sell their souls for it.

Keith - from what I know about you, you have a deep interest in Historical Facts - well, please revisit what Hitler did when he rose to power. I was personally told by an older woman from Germany that from the time of her understanding she was taught that Hitler was the "Fuhrer" and she knew from her childhood that he was to be worshiped. The people who were coming up in this era, I would venture to say have the same mindset of those who sip the kool-aide in our modern day society. It's a mindset, that is conditioned by what people hear, see, and experience. The problem with this is, God or Scripture is not taken into account.

All I have posed before this forum is to gather information/opinions on the question "Is America headed towards Dictatorship?"

But as far as predicting what will happen in the future - well, none of us know. But this current "Cult of Personality" mindset is absolutely Scary.

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Re: Is America headed towards Dictatorship?

Postby Sonbeam on Tue Jan 21, 2020 4:08 pm

Mr Baldy wrote:dAll I have posed before this forum is to gather information/opinions on the question "Is America headed towards Dictatorship?"

But as far as predicting what will happen in the future - well, none of us know. But this current "Cult of Personality" mindset is absolutely Scary.

Let's Keep Christ on the Throne.


Mr Baldy,

About this current "Cult of Personality" you are speaking of, are your referring to the current President?

And those who voted for him, and continue to support him, as being taken in or "bamboozled"?

Or on the other side of the aisle, are you speaking of the face/faces of Socialism that are currently running for
President?

Are those who support them, are those the ones being "bamboozled"?

Just trying to understand what you are talking about, specifically.

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Re: Is America headed towards Dictatorship?

Postby keithareilly on Tue Jan 21, 2020 5:02 pm

Hi Mr. Baldy,

Thank you for your reply. I apologize for my misinterpretation of contemp. While I do see contempt in some of what you said, I thought it was directed at responders not the world in general. I apologize for that. I have started reading Jeramiah last few days and it is about God's contempt for the people of Israel who were behaving exactly as you have described the general populous behaving. God definitely had contempt for their sinful behavior. I am sure he does for ours as well; and it worries me as I remember the Arch of Baal being built in New York, unborn children being killed (And I supported abortion all my life and only switched a year ago).

Thanks also for your reply about how you see things.
And while I was reading what you said about how people are duped into supporting evil I thought of Hitler and how good an orator he was and Bill Clinton and how good an orator he was. And yes I thought of them before I got the point where you mentioned Hitler. even asked myself if Trump is one of those type; but, no he is not, he is vitriolic in his speaches but people like him because of his actions not his words. Nevertheless, successful actions, like Hitler's successes, result in people getting behind you.

When the USSR fell, I was amazed at how God brought them down without hot war and a lot of death. I also wondered how long it would be before he brought the USA down. That was a long time ago.

It is our Job to shed light on the darkness and I am not really very good at that. Only in the last year have I really started to see evil and its vices and how evil works to convince the people to support evil by appealing to the goodness within them. That has amazed me. It has really amazed me because I know some really good hearted people that are deceived by evil and uphold its agenda without realizing that is what they are doing.

And Yes, I think the majority of people will accept the mark for exactly the reason you are saying.

You are correct, people need to be led. We Christians need to be more aggressive and more visible and more in the public and more in peoples faces and less behind the scenes Christians. We are at war and we need to step up for our people and lead them so they do not go the way Israel did in Jeramiah.

Recently I have been thinking about Obama VS Trump with regards to Iran. Obama was Nevel Chamberlain and the Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action (JCPOA) was Obama's Munich Treaty.


Thanks for your response. I like to hear your opinions, so when you gather facts and opinions, please share yours so the rest of us can gather from you as you gather from us. It is about building up us all.

Keith
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Re: Is America headed towards Dictatorship?

Postby Loop on Wed Jan 22, 2020 11:06 am

but, no he is not, he is vitriolic in his speaches but people like him because of his actions not his words.


I think a lot of people like him because he speaks his mind, if it comes on it he says it rather then the way most politicians speak out of the sides of their mouths ie they say that they disagree with something when they secretly agree and it usually isn't for the good of the people... js
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