Angela Merkel: In This Day and Age States Must Be Ready to G

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Angela Merkel: In This Day and Age States Must Be Ready to G

Postby st louis steve on Fri Nov 23, 2018 7:18 pm

Angela Merkel: In This Day and Age States Must Be Ready to Give Up Sovereignty – Nationalist Countries are Not Patriotic Chancellor Angela Merkel welcomed close over 280,000 migrants in 2016.

In April 2017 after several Islamist terror attacks and after Islamists tried to blow up a bus carrying a top German soccer team, Merkel told reporters that “there is no doubt” that some refugees pose a security threat.
A new tradition started in Germany this Christmas season.
This year the popular Berlin Christmas market is surrounded by a metal fence reinforced by giant sand bags.

The Diversity barriers are back.
Via Vlad Tepes:


But Angela Merkel has not learned from her suicidal politics.
This week Merkel lectured countries to be ready to give up their sovereignty. She went on to say that nationalistic politics are selfish and not patriotic.

The Express reported:


Mrs Merkel, who last month announced she was controversially stepping down as leader of her party but not as Chancellor of Germany despite previously saying the two roles go hand in glove, said ceding power to a superstate is a better form of patriotism.

She told the event, titled ‘Parliamentarianism Between Globalisation and National Sovereignty’: “In this day nation states must today – should today, I say – be ready to give up sovereignty.

“But of course in an orderly procedure.”

Mrs Merkel said that countries who think “they can solve everything on their own” are simply nationalistic and not patriotic because they “only think about themselves.”

She said: “Either you are one of those who believe they can solve everything on their own and only have to think about themselves. That is nationalism in its purest form.

“This is not patriotism. Because patriotism is if you include others in the German interest and accept win-win situations.”
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2018/1 ... patriotic/
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Re: Angela Merkel: In This Day and Age States Must Be Ready to G

Postby Jericho on Fri Nov 23, 2018 8:59 pm

Mrs Merkel said that countries who think “they can solve everything on their own” are simply nationalistic and not patriotic because they “only think about themselves.”


And globalism is the misguided belief that they can solve everything. It is another utopian fantasy that will end like all utopian fantasies, in disaster.

Mrs Merkel, who last month announced she was controversially stepping down as leader of her party but not as Chancellor of Germany despite previously saying the two roles go hand in glove, said ceding power to a superstate is a better form of patriotism.


A superstate sounds a lot like the Roman Empire. Rodney Stark in his book "How the West Won" makes the case that a superstate like Rome sucked up a lot of resources to sustain it, and stagnated as a result. Rome took much of their achievements from the Greeks that preceded them, the only significant Roman contribution was the invention of concrete. But when Rome collapsed, that's when the real progress began. All the independent nation states competing against one another propelled the West past all the countries in the world. The so-called Dark Ages were a myth to discredit Christianity by philosophers who labeled their own era as the "Enlightenment". A superstate is not progressive, it's regressive.
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Re: Angela Merkel: In This Day and Age States Must Be Ready to G

Postby Mr Baldy on Sat Nov 24, 2018 4:14 am

Jericho wrote:And globalism is the misguided belief that they can solve everything.


Jericho wrote:A superstate sounds a lot like the Roman Empire.


Jericho wrote:A superstate is not progressive, it's regressive.


Here is what Scripture has to say about the 4th and Final Empire - or "Super State":

Daniel 7:19-23 - New American Standard Bible (NASB)

19) “Then I desired to know the exact meaning of the fourth beast, which was different from all the others, exceedingly dreadful, with its teeth of iron and its claws of bronze, and which devoured, crushed and trampled down the remainder with its feet, 20) and the meaning of the ten horns that were on its head and the other horn which came up, and before which three of them fell, namely, that horn which had eyes and a mouth uttering great boasts and which was larger in appearance than its associates. 21) I kept looking, and that horn was waging war with the saints and overpowering them 22) until the Ancient of Days came and judgment was passed in favor of the saints of the Highest One, and the time arrived when the saints took possession of the kingdom.

23) Thus he said: ‘The fourth beast will be a fourth kingdom on the earth, which will be different from all the other kingdoms and will devour the whole earth and tread it down and crush it."


It would appear to me that this "Super State" also know as the EU or 4th Empire will be exceedingly successful when the final components have come together. This same Empire/Super State will remain throughout the Tribulation and until the Return of Christ.

The EU in it's ever developing stages certainly appears to be the 4th Empire that Scripture mentions. With things developing in the EU - it really should let us know that the Return of Christ is closer than we think.
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Re: Angela Merkel: In This Day and Age States Must Be Ready to G

Postby WOODHENOT3 on Sat Nov 24, 2018 8:11 am

Mr Baldy,
How do you think the EU will be powerful? The AC?
I think the EU is very weak at this point....
In Christ Always,
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Re: Angela Merkel: In This Day and Age States Must Be Ready to G

Postby keithareilly on Sat Nov 24, 2018 8:26 am

Considering the European Leaderships immigration of Muslims and the EU support for Palestinians and Iran, and considering the Democrats support for the same immigration in the USA and their backing of the EU and their deal with IRAN, I suspect the bigger picture is not a western culture based EU. They are trying to integrate east and west cultures through immigration and cultural generational shifts without resulting in war.

With Trump as current temporary president, therefore USA, temporarily backing nationalism, instead of the globalism agenda backed by the Democrats via open boarders and other policies, the EU globalist do not have the external international support they once had and are forced to address these issues at home and prepare for their own military defenses of globalism. Once Trump is out of office, it likely the Democrats and globalist will return to power throughout the west. For without Trump, there is no one with sufficient power to resist globalist progression anywhere in the west and the nationalists will be to weak to prevail.

The Democrats, who support globalism, are like Merkel, for democrats, USA nationalism, defense of rights and the constitution that do not align with globalism, are considered unpatriotic to globalism. Second amendments rights which are the key to the people retaining power over government needs to be abolished by Democratic globalist so they people cannot rise up in defense of nationalism. An approach to accomplish this seems to be for mass shooters to target children, young second amendment rights supporters, and groups that are typically not globalist supporters like Christians and Jews. Children and youth are having fear instilled in them sufficiently to not want firearms available to the general public. Young second amendment supporters and non globalists may change their mind if enough random shooter events target them.

Considering the youth in the west have been indoctrinated with socialist policies and it is the aged who support nationalism, it is only a matter of time before globalist rule.
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Re: Angela Merkel: In This Day and Age States Must Be Ready to G

Postby Jericho on Sat Nov 24, 2018 9:37 am

Mr Baldy wrote:It would appear to me that this "Super State" also know as the EU or 4th Empire will be exceedingly successful when the final components have come together. This same Empire/Super State will remain throughout the Tribulation and until the Return of Christ.


Daniel said it will be a Empire that is partly strong and partly weak. I have no doubt it will be successful in some respects, just like the Roman Empire was. I don't know how long it will be in existence before the tribulation. But the antichrist's reign will be very short, only 3-1/2 years. Then it will end in destruction.

Considering the youth in the west have been indoctrinated with socialist policies and it is the aged who support nationalism, it is only a matter of time before globalist rule.


Yes, prophetically it is inevitable. But their victory will be short lived.
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Re: Angela Merkel: In This Day and Age States Must Be Ready to G

Postby Mr Baldy on Sat Nov 24, 2018 4:55 pm

WOODHENOT3 wrote:Mr Baldy,
How do you think the EU will be powerful? The AC?
I think the EU is very weak at this point....


Hi Woody,

Let me first say that I am wholeheartedly in the camp that believes that the EU is indeed the Revived Roman Empire. There is just way too much evidence to support that the very things that have happened with the EU in a "generation" have literally fulfilled Bible Prophecy. We have witnessed some of these things ourselves.

For those who don't believe, all I can say is.....Well, you just can't make this stuff up.

Now to answer your question.....here is what Daniel 7:23 has to say about the 4th and Final Empire before the Return of Christ:

Daniel 7:23 - New American Standard Bible (NASB)

23) “Thus he said: 'The fourth beast will be a fourth kingdom on the earth, which will be different from all the other kingdoms and will devour the whole earth and tread it down and crush it.


As you should notice, this Empire is described as devouring the whole earth; treading it down, and crushing it. I believe that it means that it takes it over and controls it. Keep in mind too, that the Kingdom is also described as being of an "Iron & Clay" mixture (Daniel 2:22) - indicating that they will not get along (what we are seeing today.) However, eventually things will come together, and the fulfilment of Prophecy will surely manifest itself.

I further believe that it is the 1st Beast from the "Sea" mentioned in Revelation 13. While it is true that the EU has a lot of infighting - egotistical power hungry leaders; I think that you will eventually see these leaders either giving up certain powers (as Angela Merkel has done in the subject matter of this thread) or their powers will be diminished for the betterment of the EU Empire. Enter the coming Antichrist.

As far as the AC you inquired about....well it is of my opinion that he is the 2nd Beast mentioned in Revelation 13 - who is from the "Earth." Many have downplayed this notion, but a careful reading of Revelation 13 indicates that there is a single man who is working behind the power of Satan to control the Beast Empire, which is being set up - and eventually the "Whole Earth" as mentioned in Daniel 7:23.

I know that there will be those who disagree with me, and that's okay :mrgreen: - but the "False Prophet" mentioned in Revelation 13 is none other than the Antichrist (IMHO). There won't be Two End Time Players. Just a Beast Empire, which is currently being established - and a single man that comes in and controls it. They both are cast into the Lake of Fire at the Return of Christ.
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Re: Angela Merkel: In This Day and Age States Must Be Ready to G

Postby Mr Baldy on Sat Nov 24, 2018 5:05 pm

Jericho wrote:Daniel said it will be a Empire that is partly strong and partly weak. I have no doubt it will be successful in some respects, just like the Roman Empire was. I don't know how long it will be in existence before the tribulation. But the antichrist's reign will be very short, only 3-1/2 years. Then it will end in destruction.


Excellent Points!

I agree :grin:

Just to add...… at some point the coming Antichrist has to come to power and take total control. What Angela Merkel is doing is just a mere sign of things to come. Others will follow. I think that it is going to be very, very interesting to see if an EU Army or Military is ever established. IF this happens...……I believe that we will know for certain that the Coming of Christ is nearer than the World could ever recognize.

This is a very exciting time to be living in. :grin:
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Re: Angela Merkel: In This Day and Age States Must Be Ready to G

Postby WOODHENOT3 on Thu Nov 29, 2018 4:31 pm

Mr Baldy wrote:
Jericho wrote:Daniel said it will be a Empire that is partly strong and partly weak. I have no doubt it will be successful in some respects, just like the Roman Empire was. I don't know how long it will be in existence before the tribulation. But the antichrist's reign will be very short, only 3-1/2 years. Then it will end in destruction.


Excellent Points!

I agree :grin:

Just to add...… at some point the coming Antichrist has to come to power and take total control. What Angela Merkel is doing is just a mere sign of things to come. Others will follow. I think that it is going to be very, very interesting to see if an EU Army or Military is ever established. IF this happens...……I believe that we will know for certain that the Coming of Christ is nearer than the World could ever recognize.

This is a very exciting time to be living in. :grin:


The day the Anti-Christ is revealed, we will know we are in the LAST DAYS or 3 1/2 years to go.... I hope I live to see all this.... to watch the Coming of the Lord would truly be awesome... :banana:
In Christ Always,
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Re: Angela Merkel: In This Day and Age States Must Be Ready to G

Postby mrgravyard49 on Thu Nov 29, 2018 5:58 pm

See where Macron of France is setting up an army AND working on the 10 nations... Hum Interesting....
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Re: Angela Merkel: In This Day and Age States Must Be Ready to G

Postby kirthril on Fri Nov 30, 2018 3:03 pm

I am going to go opposite. I don't know if you guys have been paying attention to elections in the EU. But right wing parties are winning and winning big over their. The people are rejecting globalism. Merkel is on her way out. Macron is sitting at 20% approval. For the first time in decades the right has a 30%+ majority and even more with a coalition in Sweden (Norway?). The far right is winning in Spain, Italy, France, Hungary, Greece. For the first time in memory Merkels Christian Democratic party got railroaded and is barely hanging on at just around 20% support.

According to political scholars and professors, a global shift is happening as we speak. From the USA, to Central/South America, to India, Japan, China, Turkey, the EU and Africa, people are rejecting globalism and going back to nationalism centered around nation and culture (many to ethno-nationalism which is bad). They are saying the era of post-modernism is over with the way things are trending. The "left" has lost, at least for now. Even the latest UN bill making immigration a fundamental human right is being shot down by nations front left and center. The elite of our nations know this and are at a loss. Which is why Hillary, Macron, Merkel, Obama and others are making such ridiculous statements. They are losing.

Does this mean the EU falls apart. I think so. The EU is an imperialist entity, it is by its very nature a aspect of the leftist globalism that has defined the post-ww2 era. It demands (as merkel has just so lovely pointed out) the complete subjugation of peoples and nations to the will of an unelected beurocratic elite. The Euro-skepic parties are rising, and even the whole brexit ordeal by globalist Theresa May is being sabotaged on purpose, and the people of England know it.

Yeah, the EU is fractured. Macron and Merkels call of a EU army is a effort to keep it unified. Right-wing parties are winning (though I will state they are NOT the same as the right wing of the USA). Will something reinvigorate the globalist narrative and undo the rise of the right? Or will the right wing of Europe just take the reigns of the EU and do its own version of globalism???

My leaning, is that the EU will fracture. Some I believe will join or ally with the AC empire, some I believe will fight against it.
"It is not who I am...But what I do that defines me" -Batman, Batman Begins
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Re: Angela Merkel: In This Day and Age States Must Be Ready to G

Postby Ready1 on Fri Nov 30, 2018 7:17 pm

Does this mean the EU falls apart. I think so. The EU is an imperialist entity, it is by its very nature a aspect of the leftist globalism that has defined the post-ww2 era. It demands (as merkel has just so lovely pointed out) the complete subjugation of peoples and nations to the will of an unelected beurocratic elite.


Or does it last for a period then change? Your view may parallel scripture... :grin:

Dan 7:24 Its ten horns are ten kings who will rule that empire. Then another king will arise, different from the other ten, who will subdue three of them.
Just observing.

E.
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Re: Angela Merkel: In This Day and Age States Must Be Ready to G

Postby Jericho on Fri Nov 30, 2018 8:51 pm

Does this mean the EU falls apart. I think so.


I guess we will see, but I expect there will be many bumps in the road and restructuring before they coalesce into their final form. One thing is for certain, the globalists are not going to go quietly into the night. They will fight with everything they have. For us believers we know the globalists will win for a time, headed by the AC. When they are defeated it won't be by nationalists or any man, but by Christ himself.
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Re: Angela Merkel: In This Day and Age States Must Be Ready to G

Postby Mr Baldy on Tue Dec 04, 2018 5:05 pm

Kirthril - you make some excellent points in your observations concerning the EU.

However (comma)………

kirthril wrote:I am going to go opposite.


This is why we must be careful not to fall into the trap of allowing the daily news to dictate how we view Scripture as it relates to End Time Prophecy.

kirthril wrote:Does this mean the EU falls apart. I think so.


Scripture identifies a 4th and Final Empire - and no other Empire has fulfilled Prophecy as far as "receiving a mortal wound" and coming back to life such as the EU. Let's just continue to watch as Prophecy is very often viewed as being fulfilled in hindsight.

kirthril wrote:Yeah, the EU is fractured. Macron and Merkels call of a EU army is a effort to keep it unified.


Have you considered that this so-called "fractured" view, could actually be a "factorization" in how the EU will indeed have a Military Army - led by the future Antichrist, and the reason why so many things are lining up with the EU being the 4th and Final Beast?

kirthril wrote:According to political scholars and professors, a global shift is happening as we speak.


Are these the same secular intellects who lead the World by telling them that GREED, materialism, lust, and the desires of this life is what it means to be successful :humm:

kirthril wrote:My leaning, is that the EU will fracture. Some I believe will join or ally with the AC empire, some I believe will fight against it.


Hummmm - do you now believe in an EU 4th & Final Empire - or is it still your believe that the AC will be Islamic, and come from Turkey :humm:

Just asking :mrgreen:
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Re: Angela Merkel: In This Day and Age States Must Be Ready to G

Postby Mr Baldy on Tue Dec 04, 2018 5:08 pm

Jericho wrote:I guess we will see, but I expect there will be many bumps in the road and restructuring before they coalesce into their final form. One thing is for certain, the globalists are not going to go quietly into the night. They will fight with everything they have. For us believers we know the globalists will win for a time, headed by the AC. When they are defeated it won't be by nationalists or any man, but by Christ himself.


I agree Wholeheartedly!
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Re: Angela Merkel: In This Day and Age States Must Be Ready to G

Postby Jay Ross on Tue Dec 04, 2018 11:09 pm

Mr Baldy wrote:Kirthril - you make some excellent points in your observations concerning the EU.

However (comma)………

kirthril wrote:I am going to go opposite.


This is why we must be careful not to fall into the trap of allowing the daily news to dictate how we view Scripture as it relates to End Time Prophecy.

kirthril wrote:Does this mean the EU falls apart. I think so.


Scripture identifies a 4th and Final Empire - and no other Empire has fulfilled Prophecy as far as "receiving a mortal wound" and coming back to life such as the EU. Let's just continue to watch as Prophecy is very often viewed as being fulfilled in hindsight.


That is your way of telling the story, but the beasts of Daniel 7:1-12 are demonic spiritual entities that have dominions in which people can chose to inhabit/live within. The four beasts are judged in heaven and the last beast, the fourth beast receives a mortal wound that is healed when the beast rises up out of the abyss when it is unlocked after the 1,000 years have passed. The fourth beast of Daniel 7:1-12 has a dominion to speak out great things against the God of Heaven and to trample and devour the people. The Islamic religion today is devouring many people as it exercises it dominion over the peoples of the earth. We are not seeing the EU doing that at the moment like the people of the Islamic faith are doing.

The description of the fourth beast fits the Islamic people and their religion. As they chose to inhabit the dominion of the fourth Beast the Islamic religion is manifesting all of the characteristics of the fourth beast of Dan 7:1-12.

Mr Baldy wrote:
kirthril wrote:Yeah, the EU is fractured. Macron and Merkels call of a EU army is a effort to keep it unified.


Have you considered that this so-called "fractured" view, could actually be a "factorization" in how the EU will indeed have a Military Army - led by the future Antichrist, and the reason why so many things are lining up with the EU being the 4th and Final Beast?

kirthril wrote:According to political scholars and professors, a global shift is happening as we speak.


Are these the same secular intellects who lead the World by telling them that GREED, materialism, lust, and the desires of this life is what it means to be successful :humm:

kirthril wrote:My leaning, is that the EU will fracture. Some I believe will join or ally with the AC empire, some I believe will fight against it.


Hummmm - do you now believe in an EU 4th & Final Empire - or is it still your believe that the AC will be Islamic, and come from Turkey :humm:

Just asking :mrgreen:


It is my understanding that the four facetted beast of Daniel 7:19-ff will not be visible for over 1,000 years yet and will rise up after the 1,000 years has passed and the Abyss is unlocked.

Paul in Ephesians 6:12 confirms for us that we are not fighting other people, i.e. flesh and blood, but that we are fighting against spiritual entities during this present time until they are judged and imprisoned in the Abyss.


The evidence for my understanding can be found in the scriptures if we do not let the past traditions of the demonization of other religious persuasions to win political capital against each other.

Shalom
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Re: Angela Merkel: In This Day and Age States Must Be Ready to G

Postby keithareilly on Wed Dec 05, 2018 4:11 am

Jay wrote

beasts of Daniel 7:1-12 are demonic spiritual entities that have dominions in which people can chose to inhabit/live within. The four beasts are judged in heaven and the last beast, the fourth beast receives a mortal wound that is healed when the beast rises up out of the abyss when it is unlocked after the 1,000 years have passed.


John 11:25
Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me will live even if he dies,

Personally I do not view the EU as the 4th empire of either Daniel Chapter 2 or Chapter 7.

I do have some issues with your view.
Perhaps you can address them.
If you do I will learn more about your perspective.
If not, that is OK.

How does something that is spiritual receive a mortal wound?
If something receives a mortal wound it dies. How could it not be mortal?
So after being dead for 1000 years you say it is then resurrected. Christ is the Resurrection.
Can show me where in Scripture is says Christ died for demons and demons will be resurrected by Christ?
Or are you saying this demon follows Christ?

If Christ does not resurrect this demon can you show me a scripture where Satan has power to resurrect the dead?

I suspect these questions are completely incomparable with your view.
Let us simply accept that we are far apart in our views and understand we must each start from where we are.
The questions are not rhetorical. I am serious. I do not see how what you say can be true because of these questions.

Keith
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Re: Angela Merkel: In This Day and Age States Must Be Ready to G

Postby Jay Ross on Wed Dec 05, 2018 3:59 pm

keithareilly wrote:Jay wrote

beasts of Daniel 7:1-12 are demonic spiritual entities that have dominions in which people can chose to inhabit/live within. The four beasts are judged in heaven and the last beast, the fourth beast receives a mortal wound that is healed when the beast rises up out of the abyss when it is unlocked after the 1,000 years have passed.


John 11:25
Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me will live even if he dies,

Personally, I do not view the EU as the 4th empire of either Daniel Chapter 2 or Chapter 7.

I do have some issues with your view.
Perhaps you can address them.
If you do, I will learn more about your perspective.
If not, that is OK.

How does something that is spiritual receive a mortal wound?


Dan 7:11-12: - 11 "I watched then because of the sound of the pompous words which the horn was speaking; I watched till the beast was slain, and its body destroyed and given to the burning flame. 12 As for the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away, yet their lives were prolonged for a season and a time.

Rev 13:1-4: - 13:1 Then I stood on the sand of the sea. And I saw a beast rising up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and on his horns ten crowns, and on his heads a blasphemous name. 2 Now the beast which I saw was like a leopard, his feet were like the feet of a bear, and his mouth like the mouth of a lion. The dragon gave him his power, his throne, and great authority. 3 And I saw one of his heads as if it had been mortally wounded, and his deadly wound was healed. And all the world marveled and followed the beast. 4 So they worshiped the dragon who gave authority to the beast; and they worshiped the beast, saying, "Who is like the beast? Who is able to make war with him?"


Both writers, of the above passages, recorded what they saw and how they understood the events that were revealed to them. It is not for me to dispute what they have each respectively recorded. I certainly do not have to be able to fully understand what occurred.

The question that has to be answered is, “Are the beasts of Daniel 7:1-12 a manifestation of the demonic fallen heavenly hosts, within the sea. Daniel 7:2 gives us a clue that the sea is stirred up by the winds/spirits of heaven.

Dan 7:2-3: - 2 Daniel spoke, saying, "I saw in my vision by night, and behold, the four winds/spirits of heaven were stirring up the Great Sea. 3 And four great beasts came up/manifested from the sea, each different from the other.


In Isaiah 24:21-22a we are told that: -

Isa 24:21-22: - 21 On that day the Lord will punish
the host of heaven, in heaven,
and the kings of the earth, on the earth.
22 They will be gathered together
as prisoners in a pit;
. . . .


Also, Daniel 7:9-10 seems to set the scene of what is to happen in heaven when the beasts are judged by God. Revelation 12:7-9 also appears to be telling of the same events as described in Isaiah 24:21-22a and Daniel 7:9-12. From these comparisons, it is my view that we can assume that the beasts are in fact wicked demonic fallen heavenly hosts/angels.

keithareilly wrote:If something receives a mortal wound it dies. How could it not be mortal?


You seem to be applying a human logical twist to what is recorded in the bible as if the “beasts” are of human origin and not fallen angels in heaven. By doing this you are forcing the “beasts” into having a human form and as such, if they have a mortal wound, then they should have also died when they received that wound.

keithareilly wrote:So after being dead for 1000 years you say it is then resurrected. Christ is the Resurrection.
Can show me where in Scripture is says Christ died for demons and demons will be resurrected by Christ?


Scripture tells us that the head that appeared to have a mortal wound, when it rises out of the Abyss, will have the appearance of being healed. A miracle that will cause many people to begin worshipping the beast and Satan.

keithareilly wrote:Or are you saying this demon follows Christ?

If Christ does not resurrect this demon can you show me a scripture where Satan has power to resurrect the dead?


My response to both Questions is simply, NO.

keithareilly wrote:I suspect these questions are completely incomparable with your view.
Let us simply accept that we are far apart in our views and understand we must each start from where we are.
The questions are not rhetorical. I am serious. I do not see how what you say can be true because of these questions.

Keith


Keith the questions that you have asked are not incompatible with my expressed view. They are questions that should be considered. However, we both may not be able to answer the questions that you have posed to our own satisfaction. Now, is it important for us to understand everything that is recorded within the scriptures? Do we have to accept what is recorded in the scriptures even though we cannot rationally understand what the scriptures have recorded? With the last question, I believe that the answer is, yes, we must accept the scriptures by faith even though we cannot understand how it can be so.

Shalom
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Re: Angela Merkel: In This Day and Age States Must Be Ready to G

Postby keithareilly on Wed Dec 05, 2018 4:43 pm

Thanks for reply Jay,

Your response does not really address what I asked because you see what is written as spiritual in nature without actual wording indicating the spirit over the waters transformed into the beasts instead bringing forth the beasts.

It is OK. Let me ask things a different way.

Because fulfilled prophecies can be proven but unfulfilled prophecies cannot be proven, when the prophecy is being fulfilled, how do you think we dwellers on this world will be able to determine that your interpretation is true or false? What evidence concerning the prophecy should we expect to see that demonstrates your view is correct?

As you know I do not have an end times theory. I look at specific prophecies in isolation without connecting dots. I do this because before I am willing to connect dots, I want evidence indicating the dots should be connected.
For example:
The first kingdom of Daniel 2 was Nebuchadnezzar per the scriptures. Also per the scriptures the vision in chapter 7 did not happen until after Nebuchadnezzar died. The prophecy in Chapter 7 talks about future beasts. Since the beast in Daniel 7 were future at the time of the chapter 7 vision, which occurred during the reign of Belshazzar, then, none of the beasts in Chapter 7 could be any kingdom prior to Belshazzar. Consequently, there is evidence the four beasts of Daniel 7 cannot be the same four kingdoms represented by the statue in Daniel Chapter 2. So, why should anyone think the fourth kingdom of chapter 2 and the fourth beast of chapter 7 are the same. There is no evidence for this. People just connect dots without any support for connecting those dots.

I have said this because you connect a lot of dots and I am hoping you can provide evidence the dots should be connected. For example, you and others seem to equate the kingdom of Daniel Chapter 2 with the fourth beast of chapter 7. You also equate the beast with the mortal wound with the beast that rises from the abyss. Why do you do this? What evidence is there to connect such dots?


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Re: Angela Merkel: In This Day and Age States Must Be Ready to G

Postby Jay Ross on Wed Dec 05, 2018 8:07 pm

keithareilly wrote:Thanks for reply Jay,

Your response does not really address what I asked because you see what is written as spiritual in nature without actual wording indicating the spirit over the waters transformed into the beasts instead bringing forth the beasts.


If the beasts are earthly kingdoms and the beasts are still to be judged in our near future, then logically, one would expect the people groups/kingdoms/empires to exist over all of the time period from when they first appeared up and until they are judged. In history, what has happened and is recorded in history is that people groups/kingdoms/empires ebb and flow and they rise up and fall. Over ten years ago, I was writing on the Joel Richardson forum and on Prophecy Talk while it existed that people groups/kingdoms/empire chose to inhabit one of the beasts’ dominions and as they did they tended to manifest the respective characteristics of the beast’s dominion that they had chosen to inhabit.

In Dan 7:11-12 it clearly states that the beasts will have their respective dominions taken from them when they come before God in heaven to be judged.

Dan 7:11-12: - 11 "I watched then because of the sound of the pompous words which the horn was speaking; I watched till the beast was slain, and its body destroyed and given to the burning flame. 12 As for the rest of the beasts, they had their respective dominions taken away, yet their lives were prolonged for a season and a time.


Now because the fourth beast will be slain, it too will lose it dominion.

How will the four beasts effectively lose the ability to exercise their respective dominions over people? They will be locked up in the Abyss, the Bottomless pit, after they are judged, they will be immediately isolated and unable to have influence over people for a period of 1,000 years.

What is the sign of this happening in the heavenlies? The sign of this happening in the heavenlies is that that kings and armies on the earth will be drawn to Armageddon to be judged on the face of the earth which is scheduled to happen at the end of the allocated period of time for the Gentiles to trample God’s sanctuary on the earth.

How do I know that Armageddon is to occur shortly? Well, the prophecy contained in Revelation 16:12-16 has been unfolding over time before us and the drawing of the nations to go to the “Battle” at Armageddon at this present moment. This what is recorded in this passage: -

Revelation 16:12-16: - Sixth Bowl: Euphrates Dried Up

12 Then the sixth angel poured out his bowl on the great river Euphrates, and its water was dried up, {this has now been fulfilled} so that the way of the kings from the east might be prepared. {fulfilled, the three kings are Satan, the beast that will be worshipped in the future and the false prophet, i.e. the little horn} 13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs coming out of the mouth of the dragon, out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. 14 For they are spirits of demons, performing signs, {fulfilled at 9/11 when three planes successfully performed signs and wonders at the world’s holy pillars were the world worships}which go out to the kings of the earth and of the whole world, {fulfilled by the new media, TV, who broadcasted the events of 9/11 to all of the nations of the earth} to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

15 "Behold, I am coming as a thief. Blessed is he who watches, and keeps his garments, lest he walk naked and they see his shame." {yet to be fulfilled when Christ comes as a thief to gather the Israelites to God

16 And they gathered them together to the place called in Hebrew, Armageddon. {yet to be fulfilled when the kings of the earth will be judged at the same time that the wicked fallen heavenly hosts are judged in Heaven as foretold in Isa 24:21-22}


keithareilly wrote:It is OK. Let me ask things a different way.

Because fulfilled prophecies can be proven but unfulfilled prophecies cannot be proven, when the prophecy is being fulfilled, how do you think we dwellers on this world will be able to determine that your interpretation is true or false? What evidence concerning the prophecy should we expect to see that demonstrates your view is correct?

As you know I do not have an end times theory. I look at specific prophecies in isolation without connecting dots. I do this because before I am willing to connect dots, I want evidence indicating the dots should be connected.
For example:
The first kingdom of Daniel 2 was Nebuchadnezzar per the scriptures. Also per the scriptures the vision in chapter 7 did not happen until after Nebuchadnezzar died. The prophecy in Chapter 7 talks about future beasts. Since the beast in Daniel 7 were future at the time of the chapter 7 vision, which occurred during the reign of Belshazzar, then, none of the beasts in Chapter 7 could be any kingdom prior to Belshazzar. Consequently, there is evidence the four beasts of Daniel 7 cannot be the same four kingdoms represented by the statue in Daniel Chapter 2. So, why should anyone think the fourth kingdom of chapter 2 and the fourth beast of chapter 7 are the same. There is no evidence for this. People just connect dots without any support for connecting those dots.


I agree with you. Here is my list of the people groups/kingdoms/empires that are the five segments of the Daniel 2 Statue

1. Babylon
2. Medes and Persians
3. Alexandra the Great and then one of the four Generals that took control of Babylon when Alexandra the Great died.

It is well worth noting that the Greeks dismantled the unities of the kingdom of Babylon and forced the people out of the land to be settled in the outer fringes of the empire of that particular Grecian Empire. (Jer 50)

4. The nation of Iraq that was remembered by God once more after WW1 in 1926 when it was formally created by treaty.
5. The coalition of the Willing made up of 20 nations.

keithareilly wrote:I have said this because you connect a lot of dots and I am hoping you can provide evidence the dots should be connected. For example, you and others seem to equate the kingdom of Daniel Chapter 2 with the fourth beast of chapter 7. You also equate the beast with the mortal wound with the beast that rises from the abyss. Why do you do this? What evidence is there to connect such dots?



First off, I do not equate the fourth segment of the Statue with the fourth beast as you have suggested. I see the fourth segment to be Iraq, and yes, its people worship within the Islamic faith and as such it is seen to have legs of iron. However, the Islamic empire is muck bigger than Iraq and should not be confused with the people group/kingdom/empire that has chosen to inhabit the land of the former Chaldeans.

As for the evidence as to why I connect Revelation 13 with Daniel 7:19ff. The respective prophecies are of the same events.

Now were I differ with many on this particular forum, is that I do not see a rapture occurring in our near future and our return to rule the earth with Christ during the 1,000 year Millennium Kingdom.

Yes Christ is given dominion over the people of the earth and a kingdom in our near future, but our understanding of what this means is more of a reflection of our desires which have not been kerbed by Christ.

Shalom
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Re: Angela Merkel: In This Day and Age States Must Be Ready to G

Postby Mr Baldy on Thu Dec 06, 2018 6:30 pm

Jay Ross wrote:the beasts of Daniel 7:1-12 are demonic spiritual entities that have dominions in which people can chose to inhabit/live within.


Purely conjecture - and most certainly speculative.

Jay Ross wrote:It is my understanding that the four facetted beast of Daniel 7:19-ff will not be visible for over 1,000 years yet and will rise up after the 1,000 years has passed and the Abyss is unlocked.


If you think that the 4th Beast described in Daniel 7:19 "will not be visible for over 1.000 years and yet will rise after the 1,000 years have passed" - then you have a very completely different interpretation of Scripture than what is plainly written.

In closing, I find it simply ABSOLUTELY amazing that you can think that this current World has over 1,000 years before the prophecies of Daniel actually manifest itself given the current technology that exists today. This truly boggles my mind that you can even present such an idea. :humm:
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Re: Angela Merkel: In This Day and Age States Must Be Ready to G

Postby Mr Baldy on Thu Dec 06, 2018 6:45 pm

Jay Ross wrote:it is my view that we can assume that the beasts are in fact wicked demonic fallen heavenly hosts/angels.


Here in lies the ROOT CAUSE of your apparent faulty interpretation. Why are you 'ASSUMING' that the beast are spiritual beings - which is in contrast to your statement here:

Jay Ross wrote: I see the fourth segment to be Iraq


You can't have it both ways.....either the Beast and the people that are represented are within a Kingdom - or You need make another comparison. \

You have just proven that the Beast is NOT an angelic fallen heavenly host.
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Re: Angela Merkel: In This Day and Age States Must Be Ready to G

Postby Mr Baldy on Thu Dec 06, 2018 7:00 pm

keithareilly wrote:Personally I do not view the EU as the 4th empire of either Daniel Chapter 2 or Chapter 7.


Keith,

You brought up some very interesting points when you challenged Jay Ross. While I respect everyone who has views and/or opinions - he never answered your very valid point about how something Spiritual could receive a fatal wound? Point of the matter is - it is NOT an fallen angelic host - but a Kingdom Empire as Scripture has very clearly presented.

However, even as you don't view the EU as the 4th Empire - and even as you have not agreed with me in how I believe that the EU is the prophesied 4th empire that arises in the End Time, then please answer how the prophecies set forth in the Book of BOTH Daniel and Revelation fit the current EU like a hand fits inside a glove? It's completely eerie and just so unbelievable on undeniable facts that have come to past - if one is really paying attention enough to observe.

And even if you disagree with this assessment - then please explain this EU Empire in it's current state? What other modern day Empire can do the things, or has done the things and that it has accomplished in our lifetime? These are not subjective points from my view - but very factual. I mean you just can't make some of this stuff up. How can these things be so with the current EU - yet not fulfill Bible Prophecy?
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Re: Angela Merkel: In This Day and Age States Must Be Ready to G

Postby Jay Ross on Fri Dec 07, 2018 4:48 am

Mr Baldy wrote:
Jay Ross wrote:it is my view that we can assume that the beasts are in fact wicked demonic fallen heavenly hosts/angels.


Here in lies the ROOT CAUSE of your apparent faulty interpretation. Why are you 'ASSUMING' that the beast are spiritual beings - which is in contrast to your statement here:

Jay Ross wrote: I see the fourth segment to be Iraq


You can't have it both ways.....either the Beast and the people that are represented are within a Kingdom - or You need make another comparison. \

You have just proven that the Beast is NOT an angelic fallen heavenly host.


Mr B., it is easy for you to make claims that the Daniel 2 Statue is also about the four beasts of Daniel 7:1-12 but you have no scripture to back up your claim. The Daniel 2 prophecy is about what will happen in the land of the Chaldeans and is not about the four beasts of Dan 7:1-12 were we are told what is to happen in the distant future.

Rev 16:17-21 tells us that after WW1, Babylon will again be remembered by God and that at that time His wrath will be poured out against Babylon, as foretold in other Biblical Prophecies.

Isa 24:21-22 also tells us that the heavenly host will be judged at the same time as the Kings of the earth. In Rev 12:7-9 we are told that the angels, i.e. Heavenly hosts, will be judged in heaven and then thrown out of heaven down to the earth.

Your statement that I have proved that the beasts of Daniel 7 are not angelic heavenly hosts is a false claim that is discredited by the scriptures themselves. Sadly, because of your desire to have a certain understanding, you have forced a flawed understanding of what the scripture actually tell us.

If Armageddon occurs within the next 25 or so years and we seen destruction of the kings and their armies at the place known as Armageddon, then we will be force to also accept that the beasts of Daniel 7:1-12 have also been judged at the same time and bee imprisoned in the Bottomless pit.

God promised Abraham that He would take Abraham and show him an earth in his distant future and Abraham believed God that this would happen. Daniel 7:1-12 tells us that the "spirits" stirring up the great Sea will be judged in heaven.

Sadly, I can only tell you what God has revealed to me, but I cannot force you to accept what God has revealed to me as to how we should understand the scripture associated with the End Times prophecies.

Mr. B., your opinions about the End Times need to be backed up by scripture before you attempt to discredit a POV that you happen to not accept. What I have posted has been in non threatening language so that I do not offend other readers who may hold to a very different understanding.

May the Lord reveal to you the truth of the matter so that you have understanding of God's truth.

Shalom
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Re: Angela Merkel: In This Day and Age States Must Be Ready to G

Postby Mr Baldy on Fri Dec 07, 2018 1:08 pm

:laugh:

Jay Ross wrote:Rev 16:17-21 tells us that after WW1, Babylon will again be remembered by God and that at that time His wrath will be poured out against Babylon, as foretold in other Biblical Prophecies.


Scripture speaks of WW1 :humm: - AMAZING

Jay Ross wrote:I can only tell you what God has revealed to me


Was this an audible revelation - dream - vision - or is this a "private interpretation" :humm:

Please do tell how God "revealed" End Times to you, and you ALONE are the Subject Matter Expert. Should be interesting :mrgreen:

Jay Ross wrote:Mr. B., your opinions about the End Times need to be backed up by scripture before you attempt to discredit a POV that you happen to not accept. What I have posted has been in non threatening language so that I do not offend other readers who may hold to a very different understanding.


Jay Ross - have you read your past postings :humm: You have caused multiple Threads to be closed because of your verbiage to others and your dogmatic views. Also Sir - you will NEVER find any postings of mine where I have not supported it with Scripture. As a matter of fact, I request that anyone who refutes what I have posted also provide Scripture - just review any post I have made here.

Jay Ross wrote:May the Lord reveal to you the truth of the matter so that you have understanding of God's truth


Thank you Sir - that's an awesome request :mrgreen:
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Re: Angela Merkel: In This Day and Age States Must Be Ready to G

Postby Jay Ross on Fri Dec 07, 2018 2:11 pm

Mr Baldy wrote::laugh:

Jay Ross wrote:Rev 16:17-21 tells us that after WW1, Babylon will again be remembered by God and that at that time His wrath will be poured out against Babylon, as foretold in other Biblical Prophecies.


Scripture speaks of WW1 :humm: - AMAZING


Yes, in fact around 1926 Iraq as a nation was re-established by treaty and remembered once more by mankind as well as by God. History does confirm the re-establishment of Babylon/Iraq in the land of the Chaldeans.

Mr Baldy wrote:
Jay Ross wrote:I can only tell you what God has revealed to me


Was this an audible revelation - dream - vision - or is this a "private interpretation" :humm:

Please do tell how God "revealed" End Times to you, and you ALONE are the Subject Matter Expert. Should be interesting :mrgreen:


So Mr. B. you resort to belittle the writer to win your point in putting down someone else.

I have observed that is what many posters on this forum do. They report what they believe God has revealed to them.

Mr Baldy wrote:
Jay Ross wrote:Mr. B., your opinions about the End Times need to be backed up by scripture before you attempt to discredit a POV that you happen to not accept. What I have posted has been in non threatening language so that I do not offend other readers who may hold to a very different understanding.


Jay Ross - have you read your past postings :humm: You have caused multiple Threads to be closed because of your verbiage to others and your dogmatic views. Also Sir - you will NEVER find any postings of mine where I have not supported it with Scripture. As a matter of fact, I request that anyone who refutes what I have posted also provide Scripture - just review any post I have made here.


It is true that threads where You and I have posted have been closed, but were they closed just because of me, or was it your bullying of me that caused them to be closed, because you disagreed with what I had posted and that was your chosen means of presenting false arguments.

Mr Baldy wrote:
Jay Ross wrote:May the Lord reveal to you the truth of the matter so that you have understanding of God's truth


Thank you Sir - that's an awesome request :mrgreen:


I trust that you will allow the Lord to reveal to you the truth, whatever that may be.
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Re: Angela Merkel: In This Day and Age States Must Be Ready to G

Postby mark s on Fri Dec 07, 2018 2:14 pm

Shall we return to the topic, and stop the ad hominems?

Much love!

Mark


:backto topic:

:grin:
ειπεν αυτη ο ιησους εγω ειμι η αναστασις και η ζωη ο πιστευων εις εμε καν αποθανη ζησεται
. . . saying to her Jesus, I AM the resurrection and the life, the one believing into Me even dying shall live . . .
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