Ezekiel 38 to meet for talks in April

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Ezekiel 38 to meet for talks in April

Postby st louis steve on Wed Mar 07, 2018 7:39 pm

Putin, Rouhani and Erdogan to meet for talks in April MOSCOW - Russian President Vladimir Putin, Iranian President Hassan Rouhani, and Turkish President Tayyip Erdogan will meet for talks in April, the TASS news agency cited the Kremlin as saying on Wednesday.

Russia, Turkey and Iran cooperate closely on Syria and it is likely that the situation there would be one of the main topics of any talks. http://www.jpost.com/Breaking-News/Put[list=] players[/list]in-Rouhani-and-Erdogan-to-meet-for-talks-in-April-544429
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Re: Ezekiel 38 to meet for talks in April

Postby mrgravyard49 on Wed Mar 07, 2018 7:46 pm

Anyone not seeing 38 starting soon?
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Re: Ezekiel 38 to meet for talks in April

Postby DaveG on Thu Mar 08, 2018 12:59 pm

That depends on if you believe Ezekiel 38 is Armageddon, or if it is one of two battles Israel faces in the last 7 years before the return of our Savior.

Think about this for a second.

Israel is surrounded by the Gog Magog alliance, and is attacked. The attack will be so large and furious that Israel will not be able to defend itself with it's great defense forces. While all hope is fading, they turn their eyes and hearts back to God for salvation. Which is exactly what happens when he destroys Gog Magog and saves Israel. This is similar to Jesus coming back to save Israel from destruction at Armageddon. Israel is surrounded, and the remaining Jews in the land finally turn their hearts back to God, and call on Jesus to save them, "Baruch Haba b'Shem Adonai" (Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord) Remember, Jesus told the Jews that they would never see him again until this was said.

IMO, why would the Jews call on the God of Israel to save them in Ezekiel 38, only to fall away and follow/believe in the antichrist as the Messiah, and then turn around again and call on the name of the Lord at Armageddon?

This is why I believe Ezekiel 38 is speaking of Armageddon, and not a separate war leading into the Tribulation.
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Re: Ezekiel 38 to meet for talks in April

Postby mark s on Thu Mar 08, 2018 1:11 pm

DaveG wrote:That depends on if you believe Ezekiel 38 is Armageddon, or if it is one of two battles Israel faces in the last 7 years before the return of our Savior.

Think about this for a second.

Israel is surrounded by the Gog Magog alliance, and is attacked. The attack will be so large and furious that Israel will not be able to defend itself with it's great defense forces. While all hope is fading, they turn their eyes and hearts back to God for salvation. Which is exactly what happens when he destroys Gog Magog and saves Israel. This is similar to Jesus coming back to save Israel from destruction at Armageddon. Israel is surrounded, and the remaining Jews in the land finally turn their hearts back to God, and call on Jesus to save them, "Baruch Haba b'Shem Adonai" (Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord) Remember, Jesus told the Jews that they would never see him again until this was said.

IMO, why would the Jews call on the God of Israel to save them in Ezekiel 38, only to fall away and follow/believe in the antichrist as the Messiah, and then turn around again and call on the name of the Lord at Armageddon?

This is why I believe Ezekiel 38 is speaking of Armageddon, and not a separate war leading into the Tribulation.


Hi David,

You made a statement in relation to Ezekiel 38, "While all hope is fading, they turn their eyes and hearts back to God for salvation." I'm trying to think of where that's found in that chapter, can you help me?

Much love!
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Re: Ezekiel 38 to meet for talks in April

Postby DaveG on Thu Mar 08, 2018 1:27 pm

Hi Mark,

Nothing in Ezekiel 38, but in Ezekiel 39, you have this.

Ezekiel 39, verse 7. So I will make my holy name known in the midst of My people Israel, and I will not let them profane My name any more. Then the nations shall know I am the Lord, the Holy One of Israel.

This tells me that the people of Israel have turned their eyes back to God, and He has made His presence known to them and to the world. Israel's ways will no longer turn away from God, but to Him instead.

It's difficult for me to understand how God could make His presence known to them in a such a way, for Israel to turn to God in such a way, only to turn away once again for a short period of time to follow the antichrist, only to once again turn back and call on Jesus to save Israel at Armageddon.
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Re: Ezekiel 38 to meet for talks in April

Postby mark s on Thu Mar 08, 2018 3:52 pm

Hi Dave,

That's a very good question! How indeed?

My view is that Ezekiel 38 and 39 describe 2 different battles, the first being a limited engagement, if you will, with those listed enemies of Israel against her. The second, 7 years later, being all the armies of the earth against Israel, otherwise known as Armageddon.

Just the same, this verse in 39 seems to announce a finished work with Israel at the conclusion of the first battle, if you were to go with my view. And that seems a conflict. And I hate conflicts when interpreting Scripture. Oh, yes, I most certainly do!!

Ezekiel 39, verse 7. So I will make my holy name known in the midst of My people Israel, and I will not let them profane My name any more. Then the nations shall know I am the Lord, the Holy One of Israel.


The first part, "I will make my holy Name known in the midst of My people Israel", that does not to me necessitate the salvation of the nation, but that YHWH will make Himself known among them.

Then there's the last part, "Then the nations shall know that I am YHWH, the Holy One of Israel." I imagine it could be understood as that the nations will turn to the Lord. Jesus, in John 17, said in His prayer, This is eternal life, that they might know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, Whom You have sent." But then there is Pharaoh, Who is YHWH, I don't know him! But he found out who YHWH is! But not by becoming saved.

Leaves us with the middle part, "I will not let them profane My Name any more." This is an interesting thing to think about. God enforces non-blasphemy. Is it because they all get saved? Or perhaps because He's going to stop being silent about it, and will begin to speak from Heaven again through His two witnesses?

I've considered this question before, but it's been a while.

Anyway, I'm interested in your thoughts, should you wish, having heard some of mine.

Much love!
Mark
ειπεν αυτη ο ιησους εγω ειμι η αναστασις και η ζωη ο πιστευων εις εμε καν αποθανη ζησεται
. . . saying to her Jesus, I AM the resurrection and the life, the one believing into Me even dying shall live . . .
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Re: Ezekiel 38 to meet for talks in April

Postby DaveG on Thu Mar 08, 2018 6:03 pm

You could most certainly be right Mark. I did have some assumptions on my part.

I just finished watching one of Amir Tsarfati's latest videos teaching on how God kept his word with Israel, even so with their unfaithfulness in Him and with their stubbornness while he was leading them out of the land of Egypt. This with the Lord being in their presence daily. The topic was quite timely considering the discussion here.

Regardless, the scriptures are coming alive today and we are getting ever so closer to the return of our King.

:a3:
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Re: Ezekiel 38 to meet for talks in April

Postby mark s on Fri Mar 09, 2018 9:39 am

Yes, a very timely topic!

DaveG wrote:Regardless, the scriptures are coming alive today and we are getting ever so closer to the return of our King.

:a3:


:a3: :a3: :a3:
ειπεν αυτη ο ιησους εγω ειμι η αναστασις και η ζωη ο πιστευων εις εμε καν αποθανη ζησεται
. . . saying to her Jesus, I AM the resurrection and the life, the one believing into Me even dying shall live . . .
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Re: Ezekiel 38 to meet for talks in April

Postby mrgravyard49 on Fri Mar 09, 2018 10:00 am

The church wont be here for 38..
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Re: Ezekiel 38 to meet for talks in April

Postby mark s on Fri Mar 09, 2018 10:07 am

I don't think so either. I think we're out of here at the big earthquake.
ειπεν αυτη ο ιησους εγω ειμι η αναστασις και η ζωη ο πιστευων εις εμε καν αποθανη ζησεται
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Re: Ezekiel 38 to meet for talks in April

Postby Jay Ross on Fri Mar 09, 2018 12:53 pm

mark s wrote:I don't think so either. I think we're out of here at the big earthquake.


Which earthquake?

From my studies of the Greek word often translated as earthquake in the English translations, G:4578, which is found 14 times in the NT, it is better understood to have the meaning of "turmoil", i.e. Revelation 16:18, where it is making a reference to the time period around, WW1, when this particular prophecy was fulfilled i.e. Jerusalem was divided into three part after WW1.

In Matthew 8:24, the same Greek word as found in Revelation 16:18 is translated as "tempest" or "storm" depending on your translation. In fact, all of the Greek words with the embedded Greek Root, G:4578, would be better understood within the context that they are found, if they were translated with a meaning associated with the word "turmoil".

Shalom
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Re: Ezekiel 38 to meet for talks in April

Postby mark s on Fri Mar 09, 2018 2:59 pm

I looked when He opened the sixth seal, and behold, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became like blood.

Revelation 6:12 NKJV


‘Surely in that day there shall be a great earthquake in the land of Israel, so that the fish of the sea, the birds of the heavens, the beasts of the field, all creeping things that creep on the earth, and all men who are on the face of the earth shall shake at My presence.

Ezekiel 38:19-20 NKJV


That earthquake.

Much love!
Mark
ειπεν αυτη ο ιησους εγω ειμι η αναστασις και η ζωη ο πιστευων εις εμε καν αποθανη ζησεται
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Re: Ezekiel 38 to meet for talks in April

Postby mrgravyard49 on Fri Mar 09, 2018 5:09 pm

we wont be here for that earthquake, gone in rev: 4.1 right now im thinking Russia is about to attack the US. March 1 Putin warned us.
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Re: Ezekiel 38 to meet for talks in April

Postby Jay Ross on Fri Mar 09, 2018 5:33 pm

Mark s, thanks for clarifying the scriptural passages you were referencing in your above post.

The Revelation 6:12 uses the same Greek word as found in Revelation 16:18 and Matthew 8:24.

My list of the verses where the same Greek work can be found is: - Matthew 8:24, 28:2, Acts 16:26, Revelation 6:12, 11:13, 11:19, 16:18, 16:18, while the BibleHub site, also includes Revelation 8:5 in this list.

I would also humbly suggest that the Ezekiel 38:19 reference and particularly to H:7494 can also be considered to have the English meaning of turmoil, or "a great war in the land of Israel." This would also fit in with Revelation 19:11-21 which occurs after the Beast and the False Prophet is released from the Bottomless pit, after the 1,000 years of imprisonment has run its course: -

Revelation 19:11-21- Christ on a White Horse

11 Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war. 12 His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He had a name written that no one knew except Himself. 13 He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses. 15 Now out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 16 And He has on His robe and on His thigh a name written:

KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.

The Beast and His Armies Defeated

17 Then I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the birds that fly in the midst of heaven, "Come and gather together for the supper of the great God, 18 that you may eat the flesh of kings, the flesh of captains, the flesh of mighty men, the flesh of horses and of those who sit on them, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, both small and great."

19 And I saw the beast, the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army. 20 Then the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who worked signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. These two were cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone. 21 And the rest were killed with the sword which proceeded from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse. And all the birds were filled with their flesh.


I know that some will have difficulty in accepting a different understanding of the words in the original texts. However, for me the change in the English paraphrase improves the contextual understandings of the respective scriptural passages.

Shalom
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Re: Ezekiel 38 to meet for talks in April

Postby Mr Baldy on Fri Mar 09, 2018 5:35 pm

mrgravyard49 wrote:we wont be here for that earthquake, gone in rev: 4.1 right now im thinking Russia is about to attack the US. March 1 Putin warned us.


Mr Gravy,

Hate to be the bearer of BAD NEWS - but contrary to popular belief that Revelation 4:1 - where Jesus has told John "Come up Here" - does NOT.........and I repeat does NOT indicate that this is the so-called Pre-Tribulation of the Church. It's an erroneous Teaching - as is ANY Pre-Trib Rapture Teaching.
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Re: Ezekiel 38 to meet for talks in April

Postby Jay Ross on Fri Mar 09, 2018 5:36 pm

mrgravyard49 wrote:we wont be here for that earthquake, gone in rev: 4.1 right now im thinking Russia is about to attack the US. March 1 Putin warned us.


You are probably right, I know that I will be long dead before that time will occur.
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Re: Ezekiel 38 to meet for talks in April

Postby mark s on Fri Mar 09, 2018 5:38 pm

Hi Jay,

Everything and everyone, according to the prophet, is going to shake, so, I'm still thinking earthquake.

Much love!
Mark
ειπεν αυτη ο ιησους εγω ειμι η αναστασις και η ζωη ο πιστευων εις εμε καν αποθανη ζησεται
. . . saying to her Jesus, I AM the resurrection and the life, the one believing into Me even dying shall live . . .
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Re: Ezekiel 38 to meet for talks in April

Postby Jay Ross on Fri Mar 09, 2018 7:48 pm

mark s wrote:Hi Jay,

Everything and everyone, according to the prophet, is going to shake, so, I'm still thinking earthquake.

Much love!
Mark


Possibly, but what about everyone shaking at the knees, some in anticipation of the coming glory, others in dread and fear at the very presences of God?
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Re: Ezekiel 38 to meet for talks in April

Postby WOODHENOT3 on Sat Mar 10, 2018 7:12 am

mrgravyard49 wrote:The church won't be here for 38..


The church WILL be HERE.... no scripture proves the church won't be here....
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Re: Ezekiel 38 to meet for talks in April

Postby WOODHENOT3 on Sat Mar 10, 2018 7:14 am

:a3: :a3:
Mr Baldy wrote:
mrgravyard49 wrote:we wont be here for that earthquake, gone in rev: 4.1 right now im thinking Russia is about to attack the US. March 1 Putin warned us.


Mr Gravy,

Hate to be the bearer of BAD NEWS - but contrary to popular belief that Revelation 4:1 - where Jesus has told John "Come up Here" - does NOT.........and I repeat does NOT indicate that this is the so-called Pre-Tribulation of the Church. It's an erroneous Teaching - as is ANY Pre-Trib Rapture Teaching.
In Christ Always,
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Re: Ezekiel 38 to meet for talks in April

Postby mrgravyard49 on Sat Mar 10, 2018 4:57 pm

Well Mr. Baldy, Im sticking by the Pretrib rapture tho I may be wrong but no more wrong than Solana being the A/C or the enp. On the way up I will say "" see I told ya so. " :grin:
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Re: Ezekiel 38 to meet for talks in April

Postby shorttribber on Sat Mar 10, 2018 6:44 pm

mrgravyard49 wrote:Well Mr. Baldy, Im sticking by the Pretrib rapture tho I may be wrong but no more wrong than Solana being the A/C or the enp. On the way up I will say "" see I told ya so. " :grin:

And on the way up...if it could be as you say....we will all say "Glory to God, This is sooooo Wonderful!".

:banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana:
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Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counsellors there is safety.

Find seven years of tribulation plainly stated in the Bible.
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Re: Ezekiel 38 to meet for talks in April

Postby Mr Baldy on Sun Mar 11, 2018 3:44 am

:laugh:

mrgravyard49 wrote:Well Mr. Baldy, Im sticking by the Pretrib rapture tho I may be wrong but no more wrong than Solana being the A/C or the enp. On the way up I will say "" see I told ya so. " :grin:


:lol:

Gravy, I wish with all my heart that there was a Pre-tribulation Rapture - but Scripture indicates otherwise.

As far as the ENP and Solana - it hasn't went anywhere. The EU continues to have a current 7 year policy; and Solana is still very much alive. The current reign for the EU High Representative ends next year.

Stay in the game Gravy - don't be so quick to give up. :mrgreen:

"IF" Solana comes back to the High Representative seat during "any" 7 year ENP - I will not say I told you so, I will say get your spiritual house in order - we "may" have identified the Antichrist.

I always enjoy your enthusiasm about the Pre-tribulation Rapture. God Bless you Brother! :hugs:
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Re: Ezekiel 38 to meet for talks in April

Postby Mr Baldy on Sun Mar 11, 2018 4:15 am

Gravy ......

Here is a very good article (rather long) about the Pre-Tribulation Rapture. It's a rebuttal of course, but it identifies some problematic issues for those who have been taught about Revelation 4:1 being the Rapture.

http://www.biblefragrances.com/studies/ ... heory.html

Please see this one as well: http://www.biblefragrances.com/studies/ ... HEORY.html

Enjoy!
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Re: Ezekiel 38 to meet for talks in April

Postby WOODHENOT3 on Sun Mar 11, 2018 10:51 am

Jesus made it very simple, but many Christians has a vision created by man....
The Coming of the Son of Man
29 “Immediately after[b][b][/b][/b] the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Jesus mentioned His Coming after the Tribulation, not before or during, so who is this Rapture Jesus?
In Christ Always,
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Re: Ezekiel 38 to meet for talks in April

Postby mrgravyard49 on Sun Mar 11, 2018 2:08 pm

Silly to be getting on people for what they believe, in truth none of us really know who is right. Besides, we believers will end up in Heaven.
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Re: Ezekiel 38 to meet for talks in April

Postby WOODHENOT3 on Mon Mar 12, 2018 6:29 am

mrgravyard49 wrote:Silly to be getting on people for what they believe, in truth none of us really know who is right. Besides, we believers will end up in Heaven.


Gravy, I don't think this is about who is right or wrong, I was a pre-tribber before and I was happy that someone pointed out some corrections in scriptures and I began to realize that I was believing a fiction story that was created by John Darby in the 1850's.... Jesus warned us not to be deceived, so we are to help each other not to be deceived....

The focus is onto Jesus Christ and not the rapture....
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Re: Ezekiel 38 to meet for talks in April

Postby GodsStudent on Mon Mar 12, 2018 6:51 am

I imagine that MrGraveyard has had more than enough time to read rebuttle arguments to the pretrib, since many of us have posted our views......like you, MrBaldy, I appreciate MrGraveyard's enthusiasm for the pretrib (as I do many others).....it is infectious to see his longing and desire to be with the Lord....amazing love that man has....

Many of us here know there are as many "rapture timing" theories out there as there are words in the Constitution....if someone new is looking around, please read the many articles about pretrib, midtrib, posttrib on this site to get up to speed.

I am respectfully unconvinced of the pretrib, which means I have read the arguments and even while studying this in scripture, had questions this view doesn't resolve, so I am not pretrib, but wouldn't I be thrilled to be wrong on this issue. Like we always say, it's not a salvation issue.

Peace brothers and sisters.
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Re: Ezekiel 38 to meet for talks in April

Postby mark s on Mon Mar 12, 2018 8:32 am

And . . . just for the record . . . even after over 10 years active on this predominantly pre-wrath forum, I remain as convinced as ever of the pre-trib timing of our catching away. I'll be happy to discuss or debate the matter with anyone who wishes, so long as it is orderly and respectful.

Much love!
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ειπεν αυτη ο ιησους εγω ειμι η αναστασις και η ζωη ο πιστευων εις εμε καν αποθανη ζησεται
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Re: Ezekiel 38 to meet for talks in April

Postby mrgravyard49 on Mon Mar 12, 2018 12:16 pm

Thanks Mark, and yes we are going home soon., I wont debate this at all. I believe what I believe and others believe what they believe. What really bothers me is that us pretribers are put down and made to feel evil. Why cant we just believe what we believe?? If wrong, I have a back up plan. Life has been hell I Will Not go thru a tribulation..
Good Lord people we end up in the same place.. How about being More Christ like?
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Re: Ezekiel 38 to meet for talks in April

Postby mark s on Mon Mar 12, 2018 12:39 pm

Hi mrgravyard,

That's the main thing! Faith expressing itself through love.

We are accepted in the Beloved. That's the acceptance we really want, right? Our Heavenly Father loves us in the same way that He loves Jesus Himself!

We know He loves us! We know He'll never abandon us or forsake us. We know we are exempt from His anger, we are forgiven!

And anyone who wants to promote pre-wrath over pre-trib based on the age of the view, well, pre-wrath is a much much younger view, having been formed during a number of our lifetimes.

Yes, I think so to, we'll be leaving soon. But I do wonder, and even kind of hope, in a way, that there might still be more time. More time to save people. More time to become wise. More time to store heavenly treasures. More time to gain glory through our afflictions.

And mrgravyard, I think God has been storing up an aweful lot of glory for you. These momentary and light afflictions are working for us a far greater eternal weight of glory.

And so for your sake, and all who are suffering here, I do hope it is soon!

Much love!
Mark
ειπεν αυτη ο ιησους εγω ειμι η αναστασις και η ζωη ο πιστευων εις εμε καν αποθανη ζησεται
. . . saying to her Jesus, I AM the resurrection and the life, the one believing into Me even dying shall live . . .
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Re: Ezekiel 38 to meet for talks in April

Postby shorttribber on Mon Mar 12, 2018 2:11 pm

mark s wrote:.........And mrgravyard, I think God has been storing up an aweful lot of glory for you. These momentary and light afflictions are working for us a far greater eternal weight of glory.
And so for your sake, and all who are suffering here, I do hope it is soon!


:a3:
The Wisest men have changed their Counsels and Resolves upon second thoughts, much more upon experience, and approaching evils not at first discovered. Rev. Herbert Croft, 1675

Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counsellors there is safety.

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Re: Ezekiel 38 to meet for talks in April

Postby WOODHENOT3 on Mon Mar 12, 2018 2:17 pm

Mark wrote;

We are accepted in the Beloved. That's the acceptance we really want, right? Our Heavenly Father loves us in the same way that He loves Jesus Himself!

We know He loves us! We know He'll never abandon us or forsake us. We know we are exempt from His anger, we are forgiven!


Then why is it so hard for you to believe that Jesus himself said, "AFTER the Tribulation then His Coming?"
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Re: Ezekiel 38 to meet for talks in April

Postby mark s on Mon Mar 12, 2018 2:57 pm

WOODHENOT3 wrote:
Then why is it so hard for you to believe that Jesus himself said, "AFTER the Tribulation then His Coming?"


Hi Woody,

I don't have a problem believing that.

Aside from that, it's rather Non Sequitor, is it not, that being secure in God's love and salvation would make me pre-wrath in my rapture timing? How do those fit together?

To give you a direct answer to the question I understand you to be asking, why is it hard for me to believe that the catching away of the church occurs after the tribulation, it's because I find far too many conflicts in Scripture with that view. Any view that creates conflicts between passages I find difficult to accept.

Much love!
Mark
ειπεν αυτη ο ιησους εγω ειμι η αναστασις και η ζωη ο πιστευων εις εμε καν αποθανη ζησεται
. . . saying to her Jesus, I AM the resurrection and the life, the one believing into Me even dying shall live . . .
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Re: Ezekiel 38 to meet for talks in April

Postby WOODHENOT3 on Mon Mar 12, 2018 4:28 pm

mark s wrote:
WOODHENOT3 wrote:
Then why is it so hard for you to believe that Jesus himself said, "AFTER the Tribulation then His Coming?"


Hi Woody,

I don't have a problem believing that.

Aside from that, it's rather Non Sequitor, is it not, that being secure in God's love and salvation would make me pre-wrath in my rapture timing? How do those fit together?

To give you a direct answer to the question I understand you to be asking, why is it hard for me to believe that the catching away of the church occurs after the tribulation, it's because I find far too many conflicts in Scripture with that view. Any view that creates conflicts between passages I find difficult to accept.

Much love!
Mark


I appreciate you're answering the question.... so, this is Jesus Himself saying this and I believe He gave a very simple message to believers.... picture yourself asking Jesus in person, He says He will come after the Tribulation... are you going to think a rapture before His Coming? When I read the words Jesus spoken, I usually picture myself sitting with Him like He is really speaking to me...

Remember, I am not talking about views...... many blessings.... :)
In Christ Always,
Woody
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Re: Ezekiel 38 to meet for talks in April

Postby mark s on Mon Mar 12, 2018 5:01 pm

WOODHENOT3 wrote:
I appreciate you're answering the question.... so, this is Jesus Himself saying this and I believe He gave a very simple message to believers.... picture yourself asking Jesus in person, He says He will come after the Tribulation... are you going to think a rapture before His Coming? When I read the words Jesus spoken, I usually picture myself sitting with Him like He is really speaking to me...

Remember, I am not talking about views...... many blessings.... :)


Hi Woody,

I appreciate your good response!

He is coming after the time of great tribulation. But He's taking the church before that.

In the pre-trib rapture view there is a difference between Jesus coming in the sky to collect His church, and Jesus coming to the earth, to judge the nations, and establish His kingdom.

I like what you said about imagining sitting with Jesus.

I'm finding it extremely helpful to continually remind myself, not only is Jesus here with me, speaking to me, guiding me, sharing my life with me, good and bad, not only that, but God has, in all His Persons, inseparably joined Himself to me, and now I share in His life. He is my life supply.

Much love!
Mark

Edited to add . . . I guess I ended up talking about views . . .
ειπεν αυτη ο ιησους εγω ειμι η αναστασις και η ζωη ο πιστευων εις εμε καν αποθανη ζησεται
. . . saying to her Jesus, I AM the resurrection and the life, the one believing into Me even dying shall live . . .
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Re: Ezekiel 38 to meet for talks in April

Postby WOODHENOT3 on Tue Mar 13, 2018 7:03 am

mark s wrote:
WOODHENOT3 wrote:
I appreciate you're answering the question.... so, this is Jesus Himself saying this and I believe He gave a very simple message to believers.... picture yourself asking Jesus in person, He says He will come after the Tribulation... are you going to think a rapture before His Coming? When I read the words Jesus spoken, I usually picture myself sitting with Him like He is really speaking to me...

Remember, I am not talking about views...... many blessings.... :)


Hi Woody,

I appreciate your good response!

He is coming after the time of great tribulation. But He's taking the church before that.

In the pre-trib rapture view there is a difference between Jesus coming in the sky to collect His church, and Jesus coming to the earth, to judge the nations, and establish His kingdom.

I like what you said about imagining sitting with Jesus.

I'm finding it extremely helpful to continually remind myself, not only is Jesus here with me, speaking to me, guiding me, sharing my life with me, good and bad, not only that, but God has, in all His Persons, inseparably joined Himself to me, and now I share in His life. He is my life supply.

Much love!
Mark

Edited to add . . . I guess I ended up talking about views . . .


Hi Mark, :)
I believe Jesus coming in the sky is the same event as His Coming...
I don't see scripture where Jesus says He is coming for the church first and then later He comes back again....
I don't see scripture where it says Jesus will stop in the clouds...I see scripture saying He is descending...hey, have you seen the Movie, Independence Day? You see the space ship go through the sky and the clouds form like a scroll and follows the ship? Thats how I see Jesus Return, while He is descending....

I'm cautious about views because the Jews were waiting for Jesus Coming 2000 years ago and they had a vision of their own and when Jesus came to the scene they did not believe He was the Messiah....

I'm very confident that the church will be here for the whole Great Tribulation and I am looking forward to bringing people to Christ if we are going to live to see this day.... if we are in God's hands, then there is nothing to be afraid of....

Everyday, I pray, Not to be Deceived, strength and courage to follow God's Will....

May God bless you Mark, we are soldiers for the King... :)
In Christ Always,
Woody
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Re: Ezekiel 38 to meet for talks in April

Postby mark s on Tue Mar 13, 2018 10:10 am

In the simplest sense, my timing understanding comes more from what I don't read than what I do.

Ok, that may not help a whole lot!

I look at the vision in the Revelation as a sequential orderly presentation, with timing statements, parenthetical portions, but with a beginning and an end.

I find that it lays out a sequence of events that does not allow for the church to be present upon the earth past the beginning of the final 7 years.

One of the key places is in Revelation 7, where "the servants of God" are sealed on their foreheads, there are in total 144,000, and they are all Jews.

I am a servant of God. I am not a Jew. The servants of God are sealed, but all the sealed are Jews, therefore I'm not sealed. But I'm a servant of God.

Do you see the conflict?

Where am I when the servants of God are sealed?

Much love,
Mark
ειπεν αυτη ο ιησους εγω ειμι η αναστασις και η ζωη ο πιστευων εις εμε καν αποθανη ζησεται
. . . saying to her Jesus, I AM the resurrection and the life, the one believing into Me even dying shall live . . .
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Re: Ezekiel 38 to meet for talks in April

Postby WOODHENOT3 on Tue Mar 13, 2018 2:26 pm

I am a servant of God. I am not a Jew. The servants of God are sealed, but all the sealed are Jews, therefore I'm not sealed. But I'm a servant of God.

Do you see the conflict?

Where am I when the servants of God are sealed?


Hi Mark,
I believe we are still here to share the gospel throughout the world, the unsaved will still be here also.
We are the Saints the AC will persecute for 1260 days right?
In Christ Always,
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Re: Ezekiel 38 to meet for talks in April

Postby mark s on Tue Mar 13, 2018 3:59 pm

WOODHENOT3 wrote:
I am a servant of God. I am not a Jew. The servants of God are sealed, but all the sealed are Jews, therefore I'm not sealed. But I'm a servant of God.

Do you see the conflict?

Where am I when the servants of God are sealed?


Hi Mark,
I believe we are still here to share the gospel throughout the world, the unsaved will still be here also.
We are the Saints the AC will persecute for 1260 days right?


Hi Woody,

Any thoughts on my post itself? Do you see why I think we can't be here at that time?

To your question . . .

Revelation 12:17
So the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went off to make war with the rest of her children, who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus.


Is this the verse you have in mind?

I suppose the answer rests in who the woman is, I would think. If the woman is Israel, then the rest of her seed are the Israelites. And as a further qualifier, the Israelites who keep God's commandments, and hold to the testimony of Jesus. That is, if the woman is Israel.

But even so, let's say that this includes all believers on the earth at that time. That may or may not include me for any number of reasons. I could have died. My mother has. She won't be there. She's in heaven with Jesus. I could have been taken off the earth by aliens. But I don't believe in other-planetary life. But there is another way I could leave the earth.

God will not be without a voice. The two witnesses. The angels flying through the mid-heaven. His Written Word. And those who are the faithful in that day.

So with this in mind, I don't see this passage as relevant to the rapture timing question. The believers on the earth at that time will be persecuted, of that I have no doubt! Whomever they may be.

Much love!
Mark
ειπεν αυτη ο ιησους εγω ειμι η αναστασις και η ζωη ο πιστευων εις εμε καν αποθανη ζησεται
. . . saying to her Jesus, I AM the resurrection and the life, the one believing into Me even dying shall live . . .
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Re: Ezekiel 38 to meet for talks in April

Postby WOODHENOT3 on Wed Mar 14, 2018 9:06 am

mark s wrote:
WOODHENOT3 wrote:
I am a servant of God. I am not a Jew. The servants of God are sealed, but all the sealed are Jews, therefore I'm not sealed. But I'm a servant of God.

Do you see the conflict?

Where am I when the servants of God are sealed?


Hi Mark,
I believe we are still here to share the gospel throughout the world, the unsaved will still be here also.
We are the Saints the AC will persecute for 1260 days right?


Hi Woody,

Any thoughts on my post itself? Do you see why I think we can't be here at that time?

To your question . . .

Revelation 12:17
So the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went off to make war with the rest of her children, who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus.


Is this the verse you have in mind?

I suppose the answer rests in who the woman is, I would think. If the woman is Israel, then the rest of her seed are the Israelites. And as a further qualifier, the Israelites who keep God's commandments, and hold to the testimony of Jesus. That is, if the woman is Israel.

But even so, let's say that this includes all believers on the earth at that time. That may or may not include me for any number of reasons. I could have died. My mother has. She won't be there. She's in heaven with Jesus. I could have been taken off the earth by aliens. But I don't believe in other-planetary life. But there is another way I could leave the earth.

God will not be without a voice. The two witnesses. The angels flying through the mid-heaven. His Written Word. And those who are the faithful in that day.

So with this in mind, I don't see this passage as relevant to the rapture timing question. The believers on the earth at that time will be persecuted, of that I have no doubt! Whomever they may be.

Much love!
Mark


Hi Mark,
Im back from shoveling.... crazy weather!!
I believe the WOMAN are those who are in Christ, the Church, believers.... when I was a pre-trib, I used to look for excuses not to believe that Christians won't be here for the Great Tribulation period, I believed it has blinded me, but then I knelt down and prayed for God to show me the Truth and I had a vision that opened my eyes....
We are to witness for Christ until the last day whether we are here for WW3, Great Tribulation or whatever.... come to think about it, World War 1 and 2 were so horrible and many Christians were persecuted and killed, we should not be thinking about escaping Great Tribulation, but to ask God to give us strength and courage.... we could be persecuted to death today or tomorrow.... I don't worry about the Great Tribulation even though I believe we will be there.... I am not even convinced of a rapture til after the 1260 days are completed, then we don't know the day and hour before Jesus comes...the parable of the Tares and the Wheat also has convinced me that after the Tribulation then the gathering..... one more thing.... John who saw revelation never used the word Church and he always used the word Saints throughout scriptures.... and to think about it, many christians I heard say, the Church is not mentioned because of the rapture, but I always say, where are the church then, since church is not mentioned in the 1000 year reign?

I believe we are not in the End Time Mark, once the AC reveals then we are in the End Time....

You have a good heart I believe so be blessed today... :)
In Christ Always,
Woody
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Re: Ezekiel 38 to meet for talks in April

Postby mark s on Wed Mar 14, 2018 9:49 am

Hi Woody,

I understand. So long as we have a true faith in Jesus, which is, in reality, His faith resident in us, then we will trust Him to carry us through any tribulations and persecutions, no matter when or why.

Visions I have no comment on, I can only comment on Scripture. There are many poor arguments used to support pre-trib timing, but I believe there are very solid arguments as well.

For me, it's not about preference. Do I prefer to not have pain? If yes, then do I likewise prefer to not share in the resulting glory? Or do I simply prefer to let my Father decide what is best for me?

Jesus said, "you shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free." Truth is what sets us free. If we do not have the truth, well . . . I simply want to know what is true.

That's what I like with this community. I think we all do.

Much love!
Mark
ειπεν αυτη ο ιησους εγω ειμι η αναστασις και η ζωη ο πιστευων εις εμε καν αποθανη ζησεται
. . . saying to her Jesus, I AM the resurrection and the life, the one believing into Me even dying shall live . . .
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Re: Ezekiel 38 to meet for talks in April

Postby Abiding in His Word on Wed Mar 14, 2018 10:21 am

Just a tidbit...Ten years ago on this board I questioned whether or not there actually is a rapture. I simply do not see one in scripture as it's being taught.

Ten years later, I'm still questioning such a happening. The thread I started at that time got quite lengthy, but if anyone is interested in reading, you can find it here. It's a bit nostalgic reading since some of the members who participated are no longer here.
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Re: Ezekiel 38 to meet for talks in April

Postby WOODHENOT3 on Wed Mar 14, 2018 11:12 am

Abiding in His Word wrote:Just a tidbit...Ten years ago on this board I questioned whether or not there actually is a rapture. I simply do not see one in scripture as it's being taught.

Ten years later, I'm still questioning such a happening. The thread I started at that time got quite lengthy, but if anyone is interested in reading, you can find it here. It's a bit nostalgic reading since some of the members who participated are no longer here.


LOL...Hi Abiding.... I had a feeling you were going to pop this up.... I was actually thinking about that....let put it this way, there was no rapture in Jesus first coming... hehe....

I must say, it is good to hear from you... :)
In Christ Always,
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Re: Ezekiel 38 to meet for talks in April

Postby Abiding in His Word on Wed Mar 14, 2018 11:28 am

WOODHENOT3 wrote:I must say, it is good to hear from you... :)


It's good to hear from you as well, Woody! But please be careful shoveling all that snow up there.
:hugs:
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Re: Ezekiel 38 to meet for talks in April

Postby WOODHENOT3 on Wed Mar 14, 2018 1:42 pm

:hugs:
Abiding in His Word wrote:
WOODHENOT3 wrote:I must say, it is good to hear from you... :)


It's good to hear from you as well, Woody! But please be careful shoveling all that snow up there.
:hugs:


When is winter going to end? Its too loooooooonnnnggggg.... too cold... and no sign of Spring... ahhh...
In Christ Always,
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Re: Ezekiel 38 to meet for talks in April

Postby mrgravyard49 on Thu Mar 15, 2018 12:41 pm

Well An Idea, Since many of you love the tribulation so much when the rapture happens, which may be as soon as tomorrow. You can stay when us pre-tribs. go home. :grin: You know if you think about it, its not fair, if there is no pre-trib rapture you win and can say " See I told You so" or if there is one you get to go home. You win either way. :wink: I believe that those who don't believe in pre-trib must be living a good life. But there are those of us who want to get off this god forsaken planet because life stinks..
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Re: Ezekiel 38 to meet for talks in April

Postby mark s on Thu Mar 15, 2018 1:13 pm

Personally, I think that my pre-trib understanding of rapture timing makes my life better, more joyful, more productive for the Lord, just generally a better place to be.

Much love!
Mark
ειπεν αυτη ο ιησους εγω ειμι η αναστασις και η ζωη ο πιστευων εις εμε καν αποθανη ζησεται
. . . saying to her Jesus, I AM the resurrection and the life, the one believing into Me even dying shall live . . .
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Re: Ezekiel 38 to meet for talks in April

Postby Jericho on Thu Mar 15, 2018 1:35 pm

I don't think anyone can definitively say there is no rapture, or know the timing of the rapture. If it were so clear in scriptures we would not be having endless debates about it. We may have our reasons why we believe in a certain rapture position, which is fine, but they are all theories until proven otherwise. There are mysteries in the scriptures, things which are veiled for reasons only known to God. And probably for good reason, if we knew definitively when He would return it would change everything. Personally, I don't feel the need to defend my rapture position as much as I used to. It just becomes pointless after awhile. I would rather focus on occupying my time until He returns, or I go home.
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Re: Ezekiel 38 to meet for talks in April

Postby mrgravyard49 on Thu Mar 15, 2018 1:46 pm

That's my Big Problem, those who don't believe in pretrib love to point out how wrong it is, just love to. Never even thinking THEY could be wrong. How about we just live, watch world events and wait..? We ALL may be wrong..?
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