"No one knows the Day or Hour"? Are you absolutely sure?

Discussion not limited to prophecy.

Re: "No one knows the Day or Hour"? Are you absolutely sure?

Postby WOODHENOT3 on Tue May 16, 2017 4:42 pm

Well... the 7th day God rested, so he is going to forfeit the 1000 year Reign... :lol:
In Christ Always,
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Re: "No one knows the Day or Hour"? Are you absolutely sure?

Postby brett on Tue May 16, 2017 8:19 pm

And just to add my view again, I agree also in a literal 1000 year Millennial reign.

There will still be unbelievers in the 1000 year reign of Christ......in fact I would say the unbelievers would be more numerous than the believers. When Jesus came the first time, even though MANY people saw Him in the flesh, heard His words and witnessed His miracles, they still rejected Him and would not believe.

Seeing Jesus - even seeing miracles - does not equal SAVED. We know there will be a huge rebellion after the 1000 years have expired. Saved believers would not rebel against their own Lord. This gives us clear evidence that the huge number that rebels - does so because they are children of the devil and able to be deceived by him to desire to kill Jesus.

The way I see the millennium is that it will be a MUCH BETTER version of our current world, but it will still have sin and imperfections. Some parts of the curse on creation will be lifted, for example animals will no longer kill each other for food and all animals will have their nature changed to be non-aggressive plant eaters. I also assume plant life will grow better and man will not have to toil as much to survive. But in essence it will still be similar to our current world, in terms of free will, although satan will not be tempting mankind, so the SCALE of evil will be much reduced. The millennium will see RIGHT always prevail over WRONG. I believe we will see all sin punished according to the Law in the Old Testament. For example, anyone who commits the sin of homosexuality will be put to death. Likewise anyone who commits adultery will be put to death....etc.etc...The old laws will be enforced by the government of Jesus Christ. Things will be as they should be an RIGHT will prevail over WRONG. Man will be able to live out the days of his life in peace and in accordance with the working of his own hands. We however will be like the angels, already with incorruptible bodies......we will never die again and will always be with the Lord. So for all of us, for all believers - the start of the millennium signals the end of the suffering of this dark Age.

Also there will be 2 classes of people - immortals (today's mortal believers) and mortals, those born in the millennium.

Also there will be those who survive the Wrath of God and still enter into the Millennium as unbelievers. And there will still be people getting saved during the millennium. Mortal man will still give birth to children with a sinful nature. They will still need to be saved (born again) in order to have eternal life.

Try imaging our world now, yet with a leader who was righteous and who had ultimate power & authority over all. I consider it will be similar to the change from the "Old Testament" times to the "New Testament" times......although even better. We'll have a world where the correct message is dominant, those in power do the right thing and are reliable, wrongs are righted and sin is properly and fully punished.

The whole thing is like unto a HARVEST. You have the first fruits of the harvest, Jesus Christ, then you have the main harvest (that's us now), then you have gleaning the fields for any remaining or slower to ripen fruit (millennium). Then the harvest is complete and you have eternity.

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Re: "No one knows the Day or Hour"? Are you absolutely sure?

Postby WOODHENOT3 on Wed May 17, 2017 6:48 am

I don't think it matters who believe there is a 1000 year reign or not, when Jesus comes, we will be with Him, that's all that counts... :)
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Re: "No one knows the Day or Hour"? Are you absolutely sure?

Postby Jay Ross on Wed May 17, 2017 3:28 pm

Perhaps this will help those who are unsure.

Occurrences of the Greek Word: - βασιλεύσουσιν

Rom 5:17- For if by one man's offense death reigned by one; much more they who receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.

Rev 5:10: - And have made us unto our God a kingdom and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

Rev 20:6- Blessed and holy is he that has part in the first resurrection: on such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Rev 22:5- And there shall be no night there; and they need no lamp, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God gives them light: and they shall reign forever and ever.

Occurrences of the Greek word : - ἐβασίλευσαν

Rev 20:4- And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and who had not worshiped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

For those who do not accept that it is possible for a literal 1,000 year “reign” after the Four Beasts, and the Little Horn of Daniel 7:1-12 and Satan are judged in heaven and imprisoned for many days, i.e. for 1,000 years, before their final punishment will to occur after a little while, consider that we presently “reign” in this life through Christ as Paul states in Rom 5:17.

In Rev5:10 it tells us that we in Christ will become a realm on this earth and will serve/reign as priests during the 1,000 years that Christ reigns as a Priest unto God in Heaven. This occurs immediately after the imprisonment of the four beasts, the little horn and Satan in the bottomless pit at the beginning of the Millennium Age. (Please note that the Millennium Age is a little longer than the 1,000 years that the Bottomless pit is locked as it also includes the little while period that Satan and the amalgamated four beasts which rises as a single beast and the little horn, all rise up out of the bottomless pit during the little while period in their last ditch effort to usurp God and establish Satan as a deity.)

In Rev 20:4 it tells us of the resurrection of the Saints who will have been beheaded for their faith in Christ Jesus who will serve/reign with Christ as priests for 1,000 years.

In Rev 20:6 confirms that the saints of the first resurrection will be priests with Christ during the first 1,000 years of the Millennium Age.

Finally, in Rev 22:5 after the final judgement of the “Saints” who call Jesus Lord, it tells us that all the judged righteous Saints will reign/live for ever more.

It seems to me that our English understanding of the English word “reign” is what is causing the expressed dilemma as to whether there is a seventh age to follow this present age.

Christ will be seen in our near future bringing judgement upon the rebelling Gentile Kings of the earth as they attempt to continue the trampling of the Sanctuary in Jerusalem. After the fullness in time of the 2,300 years of the heathen Gentiles trampling the Sanctuary all of Israel will be saved and Christ will be seen entering the Banqueting Hall for a brief period as He enters just before the doors are closed.

Then the harvesting of Souls for Christ will begin as the Saints who enter the Millennium Age go out unopposed by the demonic beasts and Satan to make disciples of all who will listen to them.

Satan of course will have willing human servants to oppose this harvesting of Saints and will continue the oppression of people during the 1,000 year period that Satan is imprisoned. Satan will give his servants the means to continue the oppression of the people around them.

I can point people to the scriptures to justify this post, like for example the last paragraph is supported by the Parables of the Pound and the Talents, i.e. a very large sum of money, but I am sure that some will object to this understanding as they have inserted Christ into both these parables as the man who goes away with the excuse that he does so to get a kingdom.

I believe that the 1,000 year “reign” of Christ is real and is still a future event.

Shalom.

PS. I am presently away on holidays in the far flung reaches of the land that I live in, in a dry parched land.
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Re: "No one knows the Day or Hour"? Are you absolutely sure?

Postby WOODHENOT3 on Thu May 18, 2017 7:11 am

Here's a question,
When Jesus Reigns for 1000 years, is he in the flesh like He was 2000 years ago?
In Christ Always,
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Re: "No one knows the Day or Hour"? Are you absolutely sure?

Postby Exit40 on Fri May 19, 2017 7:06 am

WOODHENOT3 wrote:Here's a question,
When Jesus Reigns for 1000 years, is he in the flesh like He was 2000 years ago?


Our Lord is now glorified, in his eternal body.

God Bless You

David
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God

T'was Grace that taught my heart to fear.
And Grace, my fears relieved.
How precious did that Grace appear
The hour I first believed.
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Re: "No one knows the Day or Hour"? Are you absolutely sure?

Postby Mr Baldy on Fri May 19, 2017 4:55 pm

WOODHENOT3 wrote:Here's a question,
When Jesus Reigns for 1000 years, is he in the flesh like He was 2000 years ago?


Exit40 wrote:Our Lord is now glorified, in his eternal body.


Interesting response David......

Yes, Jesus is Eternal and Glorified - However, I'd be very careful in identifying His "Glorified Body" as "Eternal".

First, I mention this because Jesus is GOD.

Second, I mention this because Jesus Himself says that GOD is a Spirit. (John 4:24)

Third- I mention this because Jesus hands over the Kingdom to God The Father after the Last Enemy is Destroyed - which is Death So that GOD may be ALL in ALL. (1 Corinthians 15:20-28)

1 Corinthians 15:20-28 - New American Standard Bible (NASB)

The Order of Resurrection

20) But now Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who are asleep. 21) For since by a man came death, by a man also came the resurrection of the dead. 22) For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive. 23) But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christ’s at His coming, 24) Then comes the END, when He hands over the kingdom to the God and Father, when He has abolished all rule and all authority and power. 25) For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet. 26) The last enemy that will be abolished is death. 27) For He has put all things in subjection under His feet. But when He says, “All things are put in subjection,” it is evident that He is excepted who put all things in subjection to Him. 28) When all things are subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also will be subjected to the One who subjected all things to Him, so that God may be ALL in ALL.


The aforementioned passage of Scripture clearly shows that the "Role" of the Son will have come to completion AFTER the Last Enemy is Destroyed - which is Death. He then hands the Kingdome over to God the Father so that GOD may be ALL in ALL.

So, I would be very careful in thinking that Christ will have an 'ENTERNAL' Physical Body.
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Re: "No one knows the Day or Hour"? Are you absolutely sure?

Postby Exit40 on Sat May 20, 2017 5:16 am

Mr Baldy wrote:Yes, Jesus is Eternal and Glorified - However, I'd be very careful in identifying His "Glorified Body" as "Eternal". ...

... So, I would be very careful in thinking that Christ will have an 'ENTERNAL' Physical Body.


Jesus is the very image of God. He says if we have seen Him, we have seen God. And that was when He walked the Earth. I'm not quite sure of your meaning here Mr B. Are you saying Jesus' glorified body has an end ? Does He stop 'being' Christ ?

God Bless You'

David
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God

T'was Grace that taught my heart to fear.
And Grace, my fears relieved.
How precious did that Grace appear
The hour I first believed.
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Re: "No one knows the Day or Hour"? Are you absolutely sure?

Postby Mr Baldy on Sat May 20, 2017 9:17 am

Exit40 wrote:
Mr Baldy wrote:Yes, Jesus is Eternal and Glorified - However, I'd be very careful in identifying His "Glorified Body" as "Eternal". ...

... So, I would be very careful in thinking that Christ will have an 'ENTERNAL' Physical Body.


Jesus is the very image of God. He says if we have seen Him, we have seen God. And that was when He walked the Earth. I'm not quite sure of your meaning here Mr B. Are you saying Jesus' glorified body has an end ? Does He stop 'being' Christ ?

God Bless You'

David


David Jesus is GOD!

Take a look at what you just wrote. Then look at what I wrote - and the Scripture that I provided:
(1Corinthians 15:20-28). Jesus hands the Kingdom to God the Father so that God may be ALL in ALL.

Jesus was not ALWAYS flesh. HE BECAME FLESH in order to provide a way; OR redeem man in order that he may inherit Eternal Life. While it is certainly unknown what the Eternal State will be like - it is very certain that the role of Savior will no longer be necessary when the Last Enemy is defeated. This is the purpose for Jesus handing the Kingdom over to God the Father.

Please look at the passages of Scripture where Jesus says that He and the Father are ONE. There is certainly a message in this verbiage. Bottom Line is....

Jesus is the ONLY God we will EVER see! He Himself very plainly stated that GOD is a SPIRIT.
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Re: "No one knows the Day or Hour"? Are you absolutely sure?

Postby 1whowaits on Sat May 20, 2017 9:30 pm

Jesus is God, but He can appear differently, after all He is God. In Rev 1 He is described 'like a Son of man', dressed in a robe with white hair, but looking God-like with blazing eyes, feet like bronze and a voice like rushing waters. In Rev 1 Jesus has the appearance of a human form but with additional qualities, a much glorified body.

Also in Dan 7 Jesus is described as 'like a son of man' coming in the clouds before the Almighty, a description of a human form.

Paul states in 1 Cor 15- 'If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body...just as we have borne the likeness of the earthly man, so shall we bear the likeness of the man from heaven...for the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true- Death has been swallowed up n victory..'

So we will have an immortal, imperishable, spiritual body, just like Jesus (not sure about the blazing eyes though).
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Re: "No one knows the Day or Hour"? Are you absolutely sure?

Postby Exit40 on Sun May 21, 2017 5:53 am

[quote="Mr Baldy"]

David Jesus is GOD!

No kidding. I guess you thought I didn't know that
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God

T'was Grace that taught my heart to fear.
And Grace, my fears relieved.
How precious did that Grace appear
The hour I first believed.
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Re: "No one knows the Day or Hour"? Are you absolutely sure?

Postby Exit40 on Sun May 21, 2017 5:54 am

Mr Baldy wrote:
David Jesus is GOD!


No kidding. I guess you thought I didn't know that
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God

T'was Grace that taught my heart to fear.
And Grace, my fears relieved.
How precious did that Grace appear
The hour I first believed.
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Re: "No one knows the Day or Hour"? Are you absolutely sure?

Postby Mark F on Sun May 21, 2017 7:19 am

Mr Baldy wrote:
WOODHENOT3 wrote:Here's a question,
When Jesus Reigns for 1000 years, is he in the flesh like He was 2000 years ago?


Exit40 wrote:Our Lord is now glorified, in his eternal body.


Interesting response David......

Yes, Jesus is Eternal and Glorified - However, I'd be very careful in identifying His "Glorified Body" as "Eternal".

First, I mention this because Jesus is GOD.

Second, I mention this because Jesus Himself says that GOD is a Spirit. (John 4:24)

Third- I mention this because Jesus hands over the Kingdom to God The Father after the Last Enemy is Destroyed - which is Death So that GOD may be ALL in ALL. (1 Corinthians 15:20-28)

1 Corinthians 15:20-28 - New American Standard Bible (NASB)

The Order of Resurrection

20) But now Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who are asleep. 21) For since by a man came death, by a man also came the resurrection of the dead. 22) For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive. 23) But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christ’s at His coming, 24) Then comes the END, when He hands over the kingdom to the God and Father, when He has abolished all rule and all authority and power. 25) For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet. 26) The last enemy that will be abolished is death. 27) For He has put all things in subjection under His feet. But when He says, “All things are put in subjection,” it is evident that He is excepted who put all things in subjection to Him. 28) When all things are subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also will be subjected to the One who subjected all things to Him, so that God may be ALL in ALL.


The aforementioned passage of Scripture clearly shows that the "Role" of the Son will have come to completion AFTER the Last Enemy is Destroyed - which is Death. He then hands the Kingdome over to God the Father so that GOD may be ALL in ALL.

So, I would be very careful in thinking that Christ will have an 'ENTERNAL' Physical Body.

I have to disagree with you here Mr. Baldy, that is not what the text says.

"then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him who put all things under Him"

How can the Son Himself be subject to Him if the Son sets aside His glorified body? The plain text says that the Son will also be subject. I think you misunderstand this sentence. Jesus told us that He will return and take us unto Himself that where He is , there we may be also. There is a man sitting at the right hand of the Father now, I cannot imagine that He will leave us who will be in glorified bodies just like His to live on in eternity without Him being with us as He promised.

The same word used here for subject was used in Luke 2:51, "Then He went down with them and came to Nazareth, and was subject to them, but His mother kept all these things in her heart." It does not imply any inferiority.

How can this passage be true then? Heb 13:8 "Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever."

Or this? Joh_14:3" And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also."

1Ti 2:5 "For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus,"

Here is another passage that fails if Jesus surrenders His glorified body - Rom 8:28 "And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. 29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren."

He is the firstborn which implies superiority, He is pictured here as supreme surrounded by us, His many brethren. We will forever follow Him and worship Him, we will forever see His nail scarred hands and feet, His wounded side and praise His holy name!

You say your open minded, I think this one for sure you should rethink.
Last edited by Mark F on Sun May 21, 2017 7:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: "No one knows the Day or Hour"? Are you absolutely sure?

Postby Mark F on Sun May 21, 2017 7:34 am

kirthril wrote:
In other words, if it were simply that clear, there would be no argument with even the very best and very great Theologians who still are at odds to the proper exegesis of Scripture till this very day.

But it is that clear. People allow their own bias to interpret scripture for them. Human deviation, false teachers, hatred of other sects have caused the many differing views on what scripture or prophecy says. The reason these theologians can't agree is because they all have pre-conceived cognitions on how things play out. Indoctrinated by those who taught them and in turn pass down errant teaching.

There are many out there who are correct in what scripture states. But are people so stiff (not you) that no one listens to them?

for example it was the Northern European (Germany and others) protestant hate for Orthodoxy and Catholicism that led to the shift from a Middle Eastern Antichrist to a Roman Antichrist (from catholic Europe) and Gog as a separate entity coming from Russia (orthodoxy). This ancient hate by Martin Luther who began one of the largest European Protestant Churches has led MILLIONS of Christians since Luther to point to Rome as the harlot of Babylon, Europe as the seat of the AC, Russia as Gog, and so forth.

God stated from the very beginning in Genesis, with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob that it would be from the Ishmaelites that Gods people would be continuously harassed and warred against. The Ishmaelite's are the Arabs. From Arabia came Islam. The bible is a middle eastern centric book. All of Israel's troubles and threats have always come from the Middle eastern peoples. Satan's seat is in Pergamum (turkey). The biggest warmonger against Israel through its ancient history has been the middle eastern peoples. The biggest warmonger against Christianity in our 2000yrs has been the middle eastern peoples. The Ishmaelites. The Arabs. Their religion. Why is anyone looking elsewhere?

Stuff like this is why theologians can't agree. Indoctrination is a scary thing. It should be obvious, but humans can't be trusted to keep to the truth. (btw I don't know or follow any of these experts, many have proven to be false prophets so I take anything I hear now with a grain of salt and rather continue reading for myself than have someone do it for me.)
You see you believe in a very literal "False Prophet" - whereas I do NOT. I wholeheartedly believe that the term "False Prophet" is used to describe the coming Antichrist. So in other words, I believe that the book of Revelations describes them as one and the same. In my very own humble opinion, I believe that Revelation ONLY describes the 4th Empire that will arise - and a SINGLE man that will control it, under the power of Satan.

:a3:
We actually agree on this. I don't know when exactly it started, but I stopped referring to AC and false prophet as two different entities a while ago. Instead, maybe you have noticed I have referred to the "beast" and the "AC", with the beast being his empire and the AC being the ruler. Come to think of it, its been a long time since I referenced the false prophet.

But yeah, I now believe the false prophet IS the AC. Because I adhere to a middle eastern Islamic AC it makes sense for the AC to be called a prophet. Because that is exactly who the Mahdi is to muslims.

Also, once I realized the "beast" is a empire and not a man (which is what I was taught growing up, beast=AC), then it became obvious that if beast = empire, then False Prophet would then = AC.

I like your thinking here, I am pretty much with you.

The narrative always includes the Nations around Israel, the peoples are those common enemies that as you point out, that have continually antagonized them.....as is the case today.
Mark

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Re: "No one knows the Day or Hour"? Are you absolutely sure?

Postby Mark F on Sun May 21, 2017 7:53 am

brett wrote:Hello all,

I'm going to start off this post saying - I am not 100% sure what is the correct interpretation of Matthew 24:36:
36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

That's the purpose of this post........let's look at this matter and see if in fact we could possibly know the day or hour.........was Jesus really meaning we could never know? Will no man EVER know the day or hour of His coming? Or was His statement more limited in its time frame? First off we know that ALL WILL know the day and hour when that day finally comes.....so there will come a time when we ALL know the day and hour........so His statement is not true for all time......So already we can see that this statement in Matthew 24:36 has a time limit.....and who exactly was Jesus speaking to? Was Jesus really speaking to all believers throughout all time?

Firstly lets consider another scripture:
Acts 1
6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.


But then look at this:

1 Thessalonians 5
1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
......
4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.


So in Acts 1:7 it was not for the DISCIPLES to know the times or the seasons, but in 1 Thess 5:1-6 it is for believers to know the times and the seasons? Hmmm..... strange, there is obviously an explanation for this apparent contradiction. This contradiction reveals a different message for a different audience. Obviously Jesus answer was intended ONLY for the disciples, whereas Paul is speaking to all believers, of his time and future. Remember this difference as it could be relevant to Matthew 24:36, which could be speaking to a certain audience.

Matthew 24
33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.


Ok so much of Matthew 24 (prior to verse 33) is talking about the events leading up to his return (2nd coming). So who is Jesus really talking to? The 1st century audience in front of Him or to that 21st century generation that will experience these events? It seems to me that the relevant audience is the future 21st century generation that will see these signs. Ok so in verse 34 Jesus says "Verily I say unto YOU". Who is Jesus talking to here? The fact He calls them "this generation" seems to me that Jesus at this point is talking to His immediate 1st century audience again. So could verse 36 still be for the 1st century audience? Could it be for that time? ..... was Jesus saying that the matter had not YET been revealed to anyone? That is was only something that could be known at some future time - revealed to a future generation, in its due season......

Matthew 24
42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.
45 Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?


Ok assuming revelation of the timing of the "day and hour" of Jesus return will come to a future "generation".....then we can see the purpose of WATCHING. So Jesus is saying we don't currently know.....but the matter will be revealed in due season.....hence the need to watch in order to know. Those who watch will know, those who don't watch will not know. Look at verse 45 it talks about those faithful and wise servants who will give meat in DUE SEASON. What meat is Jesus talking about? Well since Jesus has just been talking about the need to keep watching....it makes sense Jesus is saying the meat is the knowledge (revelation) of the timing of his return, the hour.....Let's look at more scripture:

Matthew 24
48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;
49 And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;
50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,


This scripture (along with 1 Thess 5) makes it abundantly clear ONLY those in darkness, only the wicked will be caught off guard by the Lords return. What is the reason given? Because they were not WATCHING. Notice also the wording used in verse 50. It states that the wicked servant will be visited in an unknown day and an unknown hour.......so the opposite means that the good servant will be visited in a KNOWN DAY AND KNOWN HOUR.

Can you also see there is a purpose in God only giving the "MEAT" (information of the timing of Christs return) in its DUE SEASON? Because it will sift the believers from the unbelievers, good from bad. If you don't love the Lord, nor take the bible seriously, and DON'T keep watch faithfully - you will miss the MEAT (revealing) when it comes in its due season.......

The fact we're told to keep watch tells me that "MEAT" (revelation) will be coming in the future to give advanced knowledge "LIGHT" of the event - before it happens. Because Jesus will NOT be a thief to those who watch.....they will know in advance, they will be ready because they will know. This also ties in with Daniel when we're told instruction and understanding will be coming.

Daniel 11
32 And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits.
33 And they that understand among the people shall instruct many: yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, many days.


Note it says those who understand will instruct many. This doesn't specifically say they will instruct of the "day or hour", but it does show meat coming in its due season from the wise servants of Gods people.


So if Jesus is not a thief to believers can we conclude that if we keep watch - we can know the day and hour in advance?

Its an interesting question.........I am starting to consider it may be possible for us to know the day or hour of Christs return.........that in due season the relevant generation will be fed MEAT for that "season"......only the wicked will not know.

Finally look at this scripture:
John 16
13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.


So regarding the original verse: But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. I am now seeing it could mean that at the time Jesus spoke the matter was still hidden, even to Jesus, but at a future time - it would be revealed - in due season the meat being given by the Holy Spirit - to the relevant generation.

So in conclusion I'm going to keep this door open, I'm still undecided - but I see a possibility we could know the day & hour. I wanted to show everyone here that this is not necessarily a simple matter. Matthew 24:36 may need more consideration as we may indeed be the generation who can know the day & hour of Christs return.

.


I would say it is self evident we do not know. Your first passage Matt 24:36 is clear.

Paul writes in 1 Thes 5 that indeed the Lord will come as a thief in the night, but we shouldn't be surprised as believers we know it is coming, AND we are to watch to discern when it is near.
Mark

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Re: "No one knows the Day or Hour"? Are you absolutely sure?

Postby Mr Baldy on Sun May 21, 2017 5:41 pm

Mark F wrote:I have to disagree with you here Mr. Baldy, that is not what the text says."then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him who put all things under Him"How can the Son Himself be subject to Him if the Son sets aside His glorified body? The plain text says that the Son will also be subject. I think you misunderstand this sentence. Jesus told us that He will return and take us unto Himself that where He is , there we may be also. There is a man sitting at the right hand of the Father now, I cannot imagine that He will leave us who will be in glorified bodies just like His to live on in eternity without Him being with us as He promised.


Hi Mark F,

I had typed out an elaborate response to your aforementioned comments - and I lost it all. But let me mention this, as I am so frustrated that I did not put my response into a word document and save it.

First - I want to say that the GODHEAD is a Mystery.

Second - I want to say that Jesus IS GOD. He was with GOD in the Beginning and BECAME Flesh - so He did not always have a BODY.

The very body that Jesus dwelled in as God - HE Created, as He created EVERYTHING. So to think that a physical body can contain Him would be a mistake on your part. The very Universe cannot contain Him.

Last - Jesus allowed Thomas to touch His Resurrected Body which contained nail prints and scar. The role of the Son as Redeemer is limited. Scripture is clear about that when He hands over the Kingdom to the Father. Furthermore, there will be no more remembrance of this Earth - or the "former things" that happened in this Earth.

ALL things will be created New.

So again, I'd be very careful in thinking that Christ will live throughout Eternity with nail prints in His hands, and a scar in His body from the Crucifixion. There is no reason or purpose for this.

It has NOT appeared what we shall be in the Eternal State.
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Re: "No one knows the Day or Hour"? Are you absolutely sure?

Postby Jay Ross on Mon May 22, 2017 1:57 am

Did not Jesus on the night that he was betrayed, take the cup of wine and said to his disciples that he would not drink of the wine until such time that his body was renewed with theirs?

So IF Jesus did not think that His body would be renewed until His disciples' bodies were renewed at the time of the second resurrection, then Jesus should look like he did immediately after the crucifixion.

But then again, Jesus said that His body would be renewed like their would be and did not think that he would be given a brand new body.

Shalom
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Re: "No one knows the Day or Hour"? Are you absolutely sure?

Postby WOODHENOT3 on Mon May 22, 2017 7:50 am

ALL things will be created New.

So again, I'd be very careful in thinking that Christ will live throughout Eternity with nail prints in His hands, and a scar in His body from the Crucifixion. There is no reason or purpose for this.

It has NOT appeared what we shall be in the Eternal State.


Amen Mr. Baldy!!
In Christ Always,
Woody
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Re: "No one knows the Day or Hour"? Are you absolutely sure?

Postby Mark F on Mon May 22, 2017 4:19 pm

Mr Baldy wrote:
Hi Mark F,

I had typed out an elaborate response to your aforementioned comments - and I lost it all. But let me mention this, as I am so frustrated that I did not put my response into a word document and save it.

First - I want to say that the GODHEAD is a Mystery.

Second - I want to say that Jesus IS GOD. He was with GOD in the Beginning and BECAME Flesh - so He did not always have a BODY.

The very body that Jesus dwelled in as God - HE Created, as He created EVERYTHING. So to think that a physical body can contain Him would be a mistake on your part. The very Universe cannot contain Him.

Last - Jesus allowed Thomas to touch His Resurrected Body which contained nail prints and scar. The role of the Son as Redeemer is limited. Scripture is clear about that when He hands over the Kingdom to the Father. Furthermore, there will be no more remembrance of this Earth - or the "former things" that happened in this Earth.

ALL things will be created New.

So again, I'd be very careful in thinking that Christ will live throughout Eternity with nail prints in His hands, and a scar in His body from the Crucifixion. There is no reason or purpose for this.

It has NOT appeared what we shall be in the Eternal State.


I understand what it's like to loose a post that I have spent a bunch of time on. I don't post much anymore, and they are usually not very long so I don't type them in another program anymore either.

You most surely are free to believe as you choose, but why is it that I should "be very careful in thinking that Christ will live throughout Eternity with nail prints in His hands, and a scar in His body from the Crucifixion?"

I happen to believe wholeheartedly that I will "see" my Lord and Savior for eternity, the Scriptures promise me He will never leave me nor forsake me, and that He is the same, yesterday, today, and forever.

I am puzzled by your comment headed "Last," I am of the opinion that the role of the Son as redeemer is THE PINNACLE accomplishment in all of time and eternity. There will never be anything to eclipse or overtake it.

I am sorry you feel that way, but as I said you sure are free to believe as you choose.

Rev 22:3 "And there shall be no more curse, but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it, and His servants shall serve Him.
Rev 22:4 They shall see His face, and His name shall be on their foreheads."
Mark

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Re: "No one knows the Day or Hour"? Are you absolutely sure?

Postby GodsStudent on Tue May 23, 2017 10:12 am

hmmm.....God in THREE PERSONS, Blessed TRINITY......that's what I have to say about this.....with respect to the Jubilee.....God the FATHER will indeed rest and GOD THE SON will physically be on this earth with us.....and while they are the same, they are IN THREE PERSONS.....
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Re: "No one knows the Day or Hour"? Are you absolutely sure?

Postby Mr Baldy on Tue May 23, 2017 5:30 pm

Mark F wrote:You most surely are free to believe as you choose, but why is it that I should "be very careful in thinking that Christ will live throughout Eternity with nail prints in His hands, and a scar in His body from the Crucifixion?"I happen to believe wholeheartedly that I will "see" my Lord and Savior for eternity, the Scriptures promise me He will never leave me nor forsake me, and that He is the same, yesterday, today, and forever.I am puzzled by your comment headed "Last," I am of the opinion that the role of the Son as redeemer is THE PINNACLE accomplishment in all of time and eternity. There will never be anything to eclipse or overtake it.


Mark F.....

Let me respectfully address a few of the things you have mentioned.

First, we are ALL free to believe as we choose. The reason why I mentioned that one should be very careful in thinking about Christ dwelling throughout Eternity with nail prints in His hands and the scar from the Crucifixion is based on what Scripture tells us - and NOT A MANS OPINION.

You see, many want to put GOD in a BOX and figure that they have Him ALL Figured OUT - when to the contrary it is QUITE the opposite.

Jesus CHRIST is GOD. He is the ONLY GOD we will ever see. The manifestation of the GODHEAD is a Mystery that NO Man can understand as it has not been revealed to us. This is why I have mentioned that one has to be very careful.

You have plainly stated that He is the same "yesterday, today, and tomorrow" - yet you have not provided ANY evidence on how He existed before He Became FLESH. Point of the matter is WE just don't know. Again, the GODHEAD is a mystery. Jesus Himself very plainly stated that GOD IS A SPIRIT- (John 4:24)

1 Corinthians 15:20-28 clearly gives us sufficient evident that the Son hands the Kingdom over to God the Father so that God may be all in all. The Book of Revelation clearly mentions in the Eternal State that the former things that happened on this current Earth will no longer be remembered - nor will they even come to mind. Christ's ROLE as Redeemer and Savior is limited to the time that He has Reigned and defeated the Last Enemy, which is DEATH.
He is GOD. He and the Father are ONE.

So, now When ALL things are Created NEW - we have NO idea what it will be like as mentioned by John:

1 John 3:2 - New American Standard Bible (NASB)

Beloved, now we are children of God, and it has not appeared as yet what we will be. We know that when He appears, we will be like Him, because we will see Him just as He is


When Christ was Resurrected the Disciples among many others saw Him in His Resurrected Body. So, if He was witnessed by many After His Resurrection - why would John write the aforementioned?

Bottom Line - again, I'd be very careful thinking that Christ will be walking throughout Eternity with nail pierced hands/wrists and an eternal scar in His side as it makes NO SENSE.
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Re: "No one knows the Day or Hour"? Are you absolutely sure?

Postby WOODHENOT3 on Wed May 24, 2017 5:19 am

God the FATHER will indeed rest and GOD THE SON will physically be on this earth with us.....and while they are the same, they are IN THREE PERSONS...


Is this an assumption?
Where does it say Jesus body becomes physical again?
Where does it say God the Father will rest for 1000 years?

Thanks, :)
In Christ Always,
Woody
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Re: "No one knows the Day or Hour"? Are you absolutely sure?

Postby GodsStudent on Wed May 24, 2017 6:58 am

WOODHENOT3 wrote:
God the FATHER will indeed rest and GOD THE SON will physically be on this earth with us.....and while they are the same, they are IN THREE PERSONS...


Is this an assumption?
Where does it say Jesus body becomes physical again?
Where does it say God the Father will rest for 1000 years?

Thanks, :)


Woody, if you don't believe Christ reigns from earth for 1000 years, that's ok with me. Nowhere in my comment did I say whether Jesus body became physical again or not, so that question is not for me.
As to the 1000 year jubilee, I have not done my own research on it in scripture, but have read many papers on it over time (several years ago) and came to believe that it made perfect sense based on God's timings historically. That said, I wouldn't "fight" for the position, especially since I don't have all of the "stuff" I read in a neat place for me to access right now (I just moved a week ago and my little world is literally all over the place right now).
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Re: "No one knows the Day or Hour"? Are you absolutely sure?

Postby brett on Fri May 26, 2017 3:38 am

WOODHENOT3 wrote:Here's a question,
When Jesus Reigns for 1000 years, is he in the flesh like He was 2000 years ago?


YES

When Jesus rose from the dead He appeared to the disciples as real flesh and bones, remember doubting Thomas.........

Luke 24
39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
40 And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet.
41 And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat?
42 And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb.
43 And he took it, and did eat before them.


Jesus appeared unto the disciples off and on for many days before He finally ascended. God can change from spiritual to physical whenever He wants........consider these scriptures and note the statement that the doors were shut:

John 20
19 Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.


John 20
26 And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you.


As Jesus ascended into heaven the angels said He would return in like manner........His ascension was PHYSICAL, He ascended in a body, up to the clouds (the clouds hid his physical body from their sight). We too will all receive new incorruptible bodies.........let's not look down to much on the physical realm..........the physical realm will still continue on.........its part of God's creation too you know...........

Acts 1:
9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.


Jesus Christ is the FIRST FRUITS, the first to be RESURRECTED, believers will too be RESURRECTED at Christs 2nd Coming - those that have died - those of us who remain (who are still alive) will be caught up in the air with Christ too and we will all be given NEW INCORRUPTIBLE PHYSICAL BODIES.

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Re: "No one knows the Day or Hour"? Are you absolutely sure?

Postby WOODHENOT3 on Fri May 26, 2017 1:48 pm

brett wrote:
WOODHENOT3 wrote:Here's a question,
When Jesus Reigns for 1000 years, is he in the flesh like He was 2000 years ago?


YES

When Jesus rose from the dead He appeared to the disciples as real flesh and bones, remember doubting Thomas.........

Luke 24
39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
40 And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet.
41 And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat?
42 And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb.
43 And he took it, and did eat before them.


Jesus appeared unto the disciples off and on for many days before He finally ascended. God can change from spiritual to physical whenever He wants........consider these scriptures and note the statement that the doors were shut:

John 20
19 Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.


John 20
26 And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you.


As Jesus ascended into heaven the angels said He would return in like manner........His ascension was PHYSICAL, He ascended in a body, up to the clouds (the clouds hid his physical body from their sight). We too will all receive new incorruptible bodies.........let's not look down to much on the physical realm..........the physical realm will still continue on.........its part of God's creation too you know...........

Acts 1:
9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.


Jesus Christ is the FIRST FRUITS, the first to be RESURRECTED, believers will too be RESURRECTED at Christs 2nd Coming - those that have died - those of us who remain (who are still alive) will be caught up in the air with Christ too and we will all be given NEW INCORRUPTIBLE PHYSICAL BODIES.

.


Thank you Brett, I appreciate it!
Now speaking of the NEW INCORRUPTIBLE PHYSICAL BODIES, if it's phsical then there will still be women and men like Adam and Eve before they sinned?
In Christ Always,
Woody
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Re: "No one knows the Day or Hour"? Are you absolutely sure?

Postby Mr Baldy on Fri May 26, 2017 4:48 pm

brett wrote:we will all be given NEW INCORRUPTIBLE PHYSICAL BODIES.


Ahem........ :humm:

Please provide Scripture that we will be given "INCORRUPTIBLE PHYSICAL BODIES".


This is what John said - who most certainly saw Jesus after He was Resurrected:

Mr Baldy wrote:1 John 3:2 - New American Standard Bible (NASB)

Beloved, now we are children of God, and it has not appeared as yet what we will be. We know that when He appears, we will be like Him, because we will see Him just as He is.


While it is true that this mortal must put on immortality - what does this mean?

Well - here is what Scripture has to say:

1 Corinthians 15:35-57 - New American Standard Bible (NASB)

35) But someone will say, “How are the dead raised? And with what kind of body do they come?” 36) You fool! That which you sow does not come to life unless it dies; 37) and that which you sow, you do not sow the body which is to be, but a bare grain, perhaps of wheat or of something else. 38) But God gives it a body just as He wished, and to each of the seeds a body of its own. 39) All flesh is not the same flesh, but there is one flesh of men, and another flesh of beasts, and another flesh of birds, and another of fish. 40) There are also heavenly bodies and earthly bodies, but the glory of the heavenly is one, and the glory of the earthly is another. 41) There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for star differs from star in glory.

42) So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown a perishable body, it is raised an imperishable body; 43) it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; 44) it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. 45) So also it is written, “The first man, Adam, became a living soul.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit. 46) However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural; then the spiritual. 47) The first man is from the earth, earthy; the second man is from heaven. 48) As is the earthy, so also are those who are earthy; and as is the heavenly, so also are those who are heavenly. 49) Just as we have borne the image of the earthy, we will also bear the image of the heavenly.

The Mystery of Resurrection

50) Now I say this, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51) Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed, 52) in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53) For this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54) But when this perishable will have put on the imperishable, and this mortal will have put on immortality, then will come about the saying that is written, “Death is swallowed up in victory. 55) O death, where is your victory? O death, where is your sting?” 56) The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law; 57) but thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.


IN CLOSING:

In the aforementioned passages of Scripture - there is absolutely NOTHING that would imply or indicate that the Spiritual Bodies that we will receive at the Resurrection will be Physical.

Again, John clearly states "It has not appeared as yet what we will be" - Yet Christ APPEARED to the Disciples AFTER His Resurrection.
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Re: "No one knows the Day or Hour"? Are you absolutely sure?

Postby brett on Fri May 26, 2017 6:41 pm

MrBaldy here's the difference.

FLESH AND BLOOD will not inherit the Kingdom of God, but FLESH and BONE will. As far as I can tell, Jesus RAISED physical body did not have BLOOD, but was FLESH and BONE. I gather that our present bodies survive on blood, but that our new incorruptible bodies will not have blood and will instead survive on the spirit alone.

That's my best guess. But its clear that Jesus states He had real flesh and real bone that was physical. It's also clear Jesus could still eat physical food in His new body. So I'm concluding that our new incorruptible bodies will no longer have blood, but will just be flesh and bone. But this is not a doctrine, this is my own views & speculation on the matter. But Jesus was absolutely physically resurrected, and we will be too - that part is doctrine. How our new physical bodies work exactly - that's speculation....I don't fully know.

Here's some other scripture:

Job 19
25 For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:
26 And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:


Its amazing that even Job way back in the Old Testament understood the coming resurrection.

2 Corinthians 5:8
8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.


When a believer dies his/her soul/spirit goes immediately to be with the Lord. We remain conscious, only our body sleeps in the earth.

Rev 6
9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.


Here we have believers in heaven who have died and are asking God - how long until their blood is avenged? They are conscious, talking and waiting in heaven. When we die our soul/spirit goes straight to heaven, the resurrection is when we get our physical bodies back again as new incorruptible physical bodies. Unbelievers have their soul/spirit go straight to hell. Consider the story of the Rich man and Lazarus.

Luke 16
22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom..
24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.


Believers are conscious in heaven, unbelievers are conscious in hell. The body remains on earth, dead and decaying, asleep in the earth.

1 Thessalonians 4
13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words..


Those who are dead in Christ now, have their soul/spirit in heaven now, while their bodies sleep (decay) in the earth. When Jesus returns, he will bring back the souls/spirits of believers from heaven to unite them with their new incorruptible bodies on earth - which will RISE from the earth. So the Soul/spirit comes down from heaven, and the body rises from the earth.

Philippians 3
21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.


1 Corinthians 6:14
14 And God hath both raised up the Lord, and will also raise up us by his own power.


Also MrBaldy - please read the KJV - all these new translations are corrupted.

God Bless

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Re: "No one knows the Day or Hour"? Are you absolutely sure?

Postby Mr Baldy on Sat May 27, 2017 2:55 am

brett wrote: So I'm concluding that our new incorruptible bodies will no longer have blood, but will just be flesh and bone. But this is not a doctrine, this is my own views & speculation on the matter.


Thank you for your response Brett. I certainly respect and appreciate when one can be honest about their views.

There are a few things that come to mind when I think about what we will be like:

1) At the Transfiguration - Moses, Elijah, and Jesus were viewed in a Glorified state - yet at that moment none of
them had been resurrected.

2) Also Enoch and Elijah were taken up into Heaven and never tasted death - yet Scripture indicates that Flesh & Blood
cannot inherit the Kingdom of God.

So again, I really appreciate and respect your view. I too once believed that our Spiritual Bodies will be flesh & bone - but the truth of the matter is, as the Apostle John stated (who was at the Transfiguration as well) it hasn't appeared what we shall be.
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Re: "No one knows the Day or Hour"? Are you absolutely sure?

Postby WOODHENOT3 on Sun May 28, 2017 2:24 pm

Mr Baldy wrote:
brett wrote: So I'm concluding that our new incorruptible bodies will no longer have blood, but will just be flesh and bone. But this is not a doctrine, this is my own views & speculation on the matter.


Thank you for your response Brett. I certainly respect and appreciate when one can be honest about their views.

There are a few things that come to mind when I think about what we will be like:

1) At the Transfiguration - Moses, Elijah, and Jesus were viewed in a Glorified state - yet at that moment none of
them had been resurrected.

2) Also Enoch and Elijah were taken up into Heaven and never tasted death - yet Scripture indicates that Flesh & Blood
cannot inherit the Kingdom of God.

So again, I really appreciate and respect your view. I too once believed that our Spiritual Bodies will be flesh & bone - but the truth of the matter is, as the Apostle John stated (who was at the Transfiguration as well) it hasn't appeared what we shall be.


Thank you for bringing this up Mr Baldy!! Great observation!
Since we will be in Spiritual bodies, then I believe that changes TIME at the resurrection... I don't think it would be a literally 24 hours a day....
In Christ Always,
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Re: "No one knows the Day or Hour"? Are you absolutely sure?

Postby brett on Sun May 28, 2017 7:09 pm

Mr Baldy wrote:
brett wrote: So I'm concluding that our new incorruptible bodies will no longer have blood, but will just be flesh and bone. But this is not a doctrine, this is my own views & speculation on the matter.


Thank you for your response Brett. I certainly respect and appreciate when one can be honest about their views.

There are a few things that come to mind when I think about what we will be like:

1) At the Transfiguration - Moses, Elijah, and Jesus were viewed in a Glorified state - yet at that moment none of
them had been resurrected.

2) Also Enoch and Elijah were taken up into Heaven and never tasted death - yet Scripture indicates that Flesh & Blood
cannot inherit the Kingdom of God.

So again, I really appreciate and respect your view. I too once believed that our Spiritual Bodies will be flesh & bone - but the truth of the matter is, as the Apostle John stated (who was at the Transfiguration as well) it hasn't appeared what we shall be.


There are some things we can know. Firstly we will be like Jesus. Sure we don't fully know what Jesus resurrected body was like but we do know some things about it:

(1) IT WAS ABLE TO BE TOUCHED - its Physical - a spirit cannot be handled and touched
(2) WE CAN EAT FOOD IN THE NEW BODIES - Jesus ate food in his resurrected body


So these 2 PHYSICAL attributes ARE KNOWN. So its not a total mystery........we don't know much else - but we do know these 2 FACTS. It will at least be POSSIBLE to have these PHYSICAL ATTRIBUTES......we will be able to be physically touched and we will be able to eat PHYSICAL food.

So the scripture : 1 John 3:2 doesn't say we have ZERO clue, it just says it hasn't yet come to pass, it hasn't yet happened so we don't know much about it yet. But we know we will be like Jesus was in His new body - which could be handled (touched) and in which we can still eat PHYSICAL food.

2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.


So the take away from this is we will at least be able to be Physical and interact with the Physical world. The grey area for me is whether we will be locked in this physical state - or whether we will be able to change from physical to spirit at will. The only thing I am certain of is that we will be able to be physical and that this PHYSICAL earth will continue on, although with some of the curse removed from creation, animals will no longer kill each other .. etc. But there's gonna be a PHYSICAL EARTH still, with nations and people (sinful mankind) and Jesus will rule over it for 1000 years, and we will rule and reign with Him the thousand years. We will be immortal - we will never die again, but the unsaved (sinful men of the nations) will remain mortal, and will be able to die, though with much increased length of lifetime. Kinda like how Adman lived a long time, sinful man will again have long lifetimes.

.
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The KJV is the only PURE translation. Avoid modern corruptions like the NIV, they have been altered to support the coming Anti-Christ.
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Re: "No one knows the Day or Hour"? Are you absolutely sure?

Postby WOODHENOT3 on Mon May 29, 2017 12:37 pm

What's the point of a rapture if we are staying on earth for a 1000 years?
In Christ Always,
Woody
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Re: "No one knows the Day or Hour"? Are you absolutely sure?

Postby Jay Ross on Mon May 29, 2017 3:51 pm

WOODHENOT3 wrote:What's the point of a rapture if we are staying on earth for a 1000 years?

It really depends when the Rapture is to take place.

If we are looking for the rapture in our near future, then you will be disappointed as your understanding will have been shown by the LORD TO BE WRONG.

The meeting of Jesus in the air, i.e. the rapture, is a distant future event, over a 1,000 years into our future.

But who is quibbling over a few years or so for the rapture to occur?
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Re: "No one knows the Day or Hour"? Are you absolutely sure?

Postby brett on Mon May 29, 2017 8:59 pm

WOODHENOT3 wrote:What's the point of a rapture if we are staying on earth for a 1000 years?


The Rapture is physical DELIVERANCE from the Wrath of the Anti-Christ, and also so we will not face the time of God's Wrath upon the wicked. There are 2 Wrath's coming.......

(1) satans wrath - that's the Great Tribulation - persecution by the Anti-Christ - the hunting and killing of believers
(2) God's Wrath - that's when God repays this evil world for every evil thing its ever done. Kinda like Noah's flood and Sodom and Gomorrah - this is God reigning down fire upon the earth, the Trumpet & Bowl judgements.......this is when the tide turns and the wicked are the ones dying on mass.

We are not appointed to suffer God's Wrath, that is for the wicked of this world. Believe me the persecution of believers will intensify greatly just prior to the rapture. The police, governments, military etc of the world will be hunting us down and killing us......Mark of the Beast.......this will be when satan has the most power he has ever had to accomplish the worst ever persecution of believers.....that ever was in the past or future.....never to be equalled again.........we will NEED those days to be cut short, we will NEED the rapture if any believers are to physically survive. This is the purpose of the rapture.......to deliver some of us from the Anti-Christ and to Herald in the Wrath of God on this evil world.......the rapture is the "Day of the Lord"......the day God's Wrath starts.......we get taken out (just like Noah went into the Ark to be spared the flood and just like Lot was taken from Sodom to be spared the Fire and Brimstone that reigned down) it will be the time when we are taken out of the world so that evil can finally be fully punished in the earth. And what a fearful day that will be. The wicked will hide themselves from the face of Him who sits upon the throne.......for us it will be deliverance for the wicked it will be terrifying - they will be so terrified of what they witness in the sky they will hide in the rocks of the earth, in the mountains - anything to hide from what they see in the sky, Christ's return in great power and Glory - when the Sun and moon are darkened and the heavenly bodies are shaken. Their hearts will melt with fear and they will yell and wail wildly.....they will finally understand the reality of the Wrath of God. The wicked will be caught by surprise, thinking they had defeated their enemy - us - believers - Christians - while they are declaring their victory over us and their incoming "Era" of false peace & security - then will Christ appear and sudden destruction will befall them.

Isaiah 13
6 Howl ye; for the day of the Lord is at hand; it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty.
7 Therefore shall all hands be faint, and every man's heart shall melt:
8 And they shall be afraid: pangs and sorrows shall take hold of them; they shall be in pain as a woman that travaileth: they shall be amazed one at another; their faces shall be as flames.
9 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.
10 For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.
11 And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible.
12 I will make a man more precious than fine gold; even a man than the golden wedge of Ophir.
13 Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place, in the wrath of the Lord of hosts, and in the day of his fierce anger.


..........

And for the sake of thoroughness I have included below more scripture and explanation from the website of faithful word baptist church (Steven Anderson's Church): http://www.faithfulwordbaptist.org/day.html



Zep 1:14 The great day of the LORD is near, it is near, and hasteth greatly, even the voice of the day of the LORD: the mighty man shall cry there bitterly.
Zep 1:15 That day is a day of wrath, a day of trouble and distress, a day of wasteness and desolation, a day of darkness and gloominess, a day of clouds and thick darkness,
Zep 1:16 A day of the trumpet and alarm against the fenced cities, and against the high towers.
Zep 1:17 And I will bring distress upon men, that they shall walk like blind men, because they have sinned against the LORD: and their blood shall be poured out as dust, and their flesh as the dung.
Zep 1:18 Neither their silver nor their gold shall be able to deliver them in the day of the LORD'S wrath; but the whole land shall be devoured by the fire of his jealousy: for he shall make even a speedy riddance of all them that dwell in the land.



2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.



Luk 17:26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
Luk 17:27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
Luk 17:28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
Luk 17:29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
Luk 17:30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.
Luk 17:31 In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back.
Luk 17:32 Remember Lot's wife.
Luk 17:33 Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.
Luk 17:34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.
Luk 17:35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Luk 17:36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Luk 17:37 And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.


Here Jesus is comparing the day when the Son of man is revealed to the days of the flood. Just as it began to rain the same day that Noah entered into the ark, God's judgment will come on the same day we are taken out of this world via the rapture. Likewise, just as fire rained on Sodom the same day Lot was taken out by the two angels, God's fiery judgment will be poured out on the same day we are taken out of this world by the rapture. That day is known as "the Day of the Lord." Luke 17 is 100% consistent with 1 Thessalonians 4 and 5.

Now let's look at another classic "Day of the Lord" passage from the New Testament.

Rev 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
Rev 6:13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
Rev 6:14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
Rev 6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
Rev 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
Rev 6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?


It is important to note that here the King James Bible states that the day of his wrath "is come." Modern Bible versions have changed this to say "has come" and have thereby slightly altered the meaning. The phrase "is come" is clearly letting us know that the day of God's wrath had not come at a previous time but had just arrived at this instant. The Day of the Lord is again marked by the sun, moon, and stars being darkened, just as it is over and over again throughout the Old and New Testaments. Thus it is undeniable by anyone that the great day of the Lord's wrath occurs directly after the sixth seal is opened in Revelation 6 and not sooner.

Next we see the following statements opening chapter 7:


Rev 7:1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.
Rev 7:2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,
Rev 7:3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.


It is clear from these verses that up to this point, God has not begun to damage the earth, the trees, or the sea. God's wrath is about to be poured out in the form of hail and fire mingled with blood that will burn up a third part of the trees and all the green grass. However, the rapture must first take place before he begins to rain fire upon the earth and pour out his wrath. Directly after this pronouncement and before God begins to pour out his wrath in Revelation 8, an innumerable multitude appears in heaven:


Rev 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
..........
Rev 7:13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
Rev 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
Rev 7:15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.
Rev 7:16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat.
Rev 7:17 For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.


Now that all believers have been removed he can begin to pour out his wrath the same day.


Rev 8:1 And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.
Rev 8:2 And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets.
Rev 8:3 And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne.
Rev 8:4 And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angel's hand.
Rev 8:5 And the angel took the censer, and filled it with fire of the altar, and cast it into the earth: and there were voices, and thunderings, and lightnings, and an earthquake.
Rev 8:6 And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.
Rev 8:7 The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up.


Now let's look at the clearest passage of all, Matthew 24, in which Jesus clearly lays out the timeline of the rapture in relationship with the Day of the Lord in perfect harmony with 1 Thessalonians 4 & 5 and Luke 17:


Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.


Here we see that the Day of the Lord and the rapture (which take place on the same day) occur immediately after the tribulation. Therefore the "tribulation" is not God pouring out his wrath since the great day of his wrath does not come until after the tribulation!

Let's keep reading in Matthew 24:


Mat 24:32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
Mat 24:33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
Mat 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
Mat 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
Mat 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
Mat 24:37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Mat 24:38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
Mat 24:39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Mat 24:40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Mat 24:41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Mat 24:42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.


Many people will refer to the fact that "no man knoweth the day nor the hour" of Christ's coming at the rapture which is referred to in verses 36 and 42. They are right to do so. However, they conveniently ignore the statement in verse 29 that this day will come after the tribulation and teach that Christ could come "at any moment" even though the tribulation has not yet taken place.

.
KJV ONLY !
The KJV is the only PURE translation. Avoid modern corruptions like the NIV, they have been altered to support the coming Anti-Christ.
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Re: "No one knows the Day or Hour"? Are you absolutely sure?

Postby Mr Baldy on Tue May 30, 2017 5:34 am

Jay Ross wrote:If we are looking for the rapture in our near future, then you will be disappointed as your understanding will have been shown by the LORD TO BE WRONG. The meeting of Jesus in the air, i.e. the rapture, is a distant future event, over a 1,000 years into our future.


I don't think I've ever read where anyone who has seriously studied bible prophecy EVER mention that the Universe has over a 1,000 years left - let alone the Rapture being over 1.000 years away.

What bible are you reading :humm:
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Re: "No one knows the Day or Hour"? Are you absolutely sure?

Postby WOODHENOT3 on Tue May 30, 2017 6:18 am

Luk 17:26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
Luk 17:27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
Luk 17:28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
Luk 17:29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
Luk 17:30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.
Luk 17:31 In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back.
Luk 17:32 Remember Lot's wife.
Luk 17:33 Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.
Luk 17:34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.
Luk 17:35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Luk 17:36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Luk 17:37 And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.


Here Jesus is comparing the day when the Son of man is revealed to the days of the flood. Just as it began to rain the same day that Noah entered into the ark, God's judgment will come on the same day we are taken out of this world via the rapture. Likewise, just as fire rained on Sodom the same day Lot was taken out by the two angels, God's fiery judgment will be poured out on the same day we are taken out of this world by the rapture.


Hi Brett,
AS I see it. Noah and family was still here during God's Wrath, so was Lot still here during God's Wrath... Jesus is talking about His warnings before He comes. Now the ones who are TAKEN are the wicked, not the Christians and the word "taken" is not referring to the rapture. I would not want to be TAKEN and eaten by flesh eating birds....
I don't see a rapture in this chapter at all... its not talking about a rapture.... or an escape for that matter....
In Christ Always,
Woody
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Re: "No one knows the Day or Hour"? Are you absolutely sure?

Postby Mr Baldy on Tue May 30, 2017 6:40 am

WOODHENOT3 wrote:Jesus is talking about His warnings before He comes. Now the ones who are TAKEN are the wicked, not the Christians and the word "taken" is not referring to the rapture. I would not want to be TAKEN and eaten by flesh eating birds....I don't see a rapture in this chapter at all... its not talking about a rapture.... or an escape for that matter....


Hi Woody,

I think the more and more one studies Scripture - they just may come to the conclusion that it ALL ENDS when HE Appears. More and more, I am beginning to believe that there is no literal Millennial Kingdom. Jesus also mentions over and over again - "raising men up on the LAST DAY".

As a matter of fact.......those of us who are "changed" and meet Him in the air at His Coming won't need a Millennial Kingdom anyway - so it really doesn't matter as it will be Eternity for those who Believe.
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Re: "No one knows the Day or Hour"? Are you absolutely sure?

Postby WOODHENOT3 on Tue May 30, 2017 7:07 am

Mr Baldy wrote:
WOODHENOT3 wrote:Jesus is talking about His warnings before He comes. Now the ones who are TAKEN are the wicked, not the Christians and the word "taken" is not referring to the rapture. I would not want to be TAKEN and eaten by flesh eating birds....I don't see a rapture in this chapter at all... its not talking about a rapture.... or an escape for that matter....


Hi Woody,

I think the more and more one studies Scripture - they just may come to the conclusion that it ALL ENDS when HE Appears. More and more, I am beginning to believe that there is no literal Millennial Kingdom. Jesus also mentions over and over again - "raising men up on the LAST DAY".

As a matter of fact.......those of us who are "changed" and meet Him in the air at His Coming won't need a Millennial Kingdom anyway - so it really doesn't matter as it will be Eternity for those who Believe.


I agree Mr Baldy..... we Christians are to witness for Christ until the very last day.... we must be doers until the very last day....
I don't believe there will be a literal 1000 year reign either... We will be with Christ forever and ever for all that matters...
In Christ Always,
Woody
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Re: "No one knows the Day or Hour"? Are you absolutely sure?

Postby brett on Tue May 30, 2017 7:47 pm


Isaiah 11
6 The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.
7 And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.
8 And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den.
9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord, as the waters cover the sea.



Isaiah 65
19 And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying.
20 There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.
21 And they shall build houses, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and eat the fruit of them.
22 They shall not build, and another inhabit; they shall not plant, and another eat: for as the days of a tree are the days of my people, and mine elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands.
23 They shall not labour in vain, nor bring forth for trouble; for they are the seed of the blessed of the Lord, and their offspring with them.
24 And it shall come to pass, that before they call, I will answer; and while they are yet speaking, I will hear.
25 The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent's meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the Lord.


These 2 passages are describing the 1000 year MILLENNIUM. How do we know this?
(1) In our current world the animals described are deadly towards one another and humans - so this is not talking about the world we live in now. Its describing another time.
(2) There is death described still in this time period, although its clear lifetimes will be much extended. Eternity will not have death, for the last enemy to be conquered will be death.

So the time period being describe in these passages is the UNIQUE time period of the Millennium - when Jesus Christ will RULE the nations with a Rod of Iron. After the 1000 years satan will deceive the nations again and then once that rebellion is destroyed we will enter Eternity - when death is conquered and Jesus hands the Kingdom over to the Father.

As much as you guys may not WANT to believe in a literal 1000 year reign......the reality is it will come to pass regardless. And it will be WONDERFUL ! I can't wait....

.
KJV ONLY !
The KJV is the only PURE translation. Avoid modern corruptions like the NIV, they have been altered to support the coming Anti-Christ.
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Re: "No one knows the Day or Hour"? Are you absolutely sure?

Postby Mr Baldy on Wed May 31, 2017 4:35 am

brett wrote:So the time period being describe in these passages is the UNIQUE time period of the Millennium - when Jesus Christ will RULE the nations with a Rod of Iron. After the 1000 years satan will deceive the nations again and then once that rebellion is destroyed we will enter Eternity - when death is conquered and Jesus hands the Kingdom over to the Father.


Brett,

I too once believed the aforementioned passages of Scripture referred to a very literal 1,000 reign of Christ - however, honestly I'm just not so sure. I say this because of other passages of Scripture which seems to imply that when He Appears - It's just simply All over.

Again, I don't know if the passages in Isaiah 11 and 65 should be taken in a wooden literal sense -or that it is all metaphorical language. I do know that once He Appears, it's not going to matter to those of us who believe - as it will be Eternity for us at that point in time anyway.

I continue to study this matter.
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