"No one knows the Day or Hour"? Are you absolutely sure?

Discussion not limited to prophecy.

Re: "No one knows the Day or Hour"? Are you absolutely sure?

Postby WOODHENOT3 on Tue May 16, 2017 4:42 pm

Well... the 7th day God rested, so he is going to forfeit the 1000 year Reign... :lol:
In Christ Always,
Woody
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Re: "No one knows the Day or Hour"? Are you absolutely sure?

Postby brett on Tue May 16, 2017 8:19 pm

And just to add my view again, I agree also in a literal 1000 year Millennial reign.

There will still be unbelievers in the 1000 year reign of Christ......in fact I would say the unbelievers would be more numerous than the believers. When Jesus came the first time, even though MANY people saw Him in the flesh, heard His words and witnessed His miracles, they still rejected Him and would not believe.

Seeing Jesus - even seeing miracles - does not equal SAVED. We know there will be a huge rebellion after the 1000 years have expired. Saved believers would not rebel against their own Lord. This gives us clear evidence that the huge number that rebels - does so because they are children of the devil and able to be deceived by him to desire to kill Jesus.

The way I see the millennium is that it will be a MUCH BETTER version of our current world, but it will still have sin and imperfections. Some parts of the curse on creation will be lifted, for example animals will no longer kill each other for food and all animals will have their nature changed to be non-aggressive plant eaters. I also assume plant life will grow better and man will not have to toil as much to survive. But in essence it will still be similar to our current world, in terms of free will, although satan will not be tempting mankind, so the SCALE of evil will be much reduced. The millennium will see RIGHT always prevail over WRONG. I believe we will see all sin punished according to the Law in the Old Testament. For example, anyone who commits the sin of homosexuality will be put to death. Likewise anyone who commits adultery will be put to death....etc.etc...The old laws will be enforced by the government of Jesus Christ. Things will be as they should be an RIGHT will prevail over WRONG. Man will be able to live out the days of his life in peace and in accordance with the working of his own hands. We however will be like the angels, already with incorruptible bodies......we will never die again and will always be with the Lord. So for all of us, for all believers - the start of the millennium signals the end of the suffering of this dark Age.

Also there will be 2 classes of people - immortals (today's mortal believers) and mortals, those born in the millennium.

Also there will be those who survive the Wrath of God and still enter into the Millennium as unbelievers. And there will still be people getting saved during the millennium. Mortal man will still give birth to children with a sinful nature. They will still need to be saved (born again) in order to have eternal life.

Try imaging our world now, yet with a leader who was righteous and who had ultimate power & authority over all. I consider it will be similar to the change from the "Old Testament" times to the "New Testament" times......although even better. We'll have a world where the correct message is dominant, those in power do the right thing and are reliable, wrongs are righted and sin is properly and fully punished.

The whole thing is like unto a HARVEST. You have the first fruits of the harvest, Jesus Christ, then you have the main harvest (that's us now), then you have gleaning the fields for any remaining or slower to ripen fruit (millennium). Then the harvest is complete and you have eternity.

.
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Re: "No one knows the Day or Hour"? Are you absolutely sure?

Postby WOODHENOT3 on Wed May 17, 2017 6:48 am

I don't think it matters who believe there is a 1000 year reign or not, when Jesus comes, we will be with Him, that's all that counts... :)
In Christ Always,
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Re: "No one knows the Day or Hour"? Are you absolutely sure?

Postby Jay Ross on Wed May 17, 2017 3:28 pm

Perhaps this will help those who are unsure.

Occurrences of the Greek Word: - βασιλεύσουσιν

Rom 5:17- For if by one man's offense death reigned by one; much more they who receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.

Rev 5:10: - And have made us unto our God a kingdom and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

Rev 20:6- Blessed and holy is he that has part in the first resurrection: on such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Rev 22:5- And there shall be no night there; and they need no lamp, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God gives them light: and they shall reign forever and ever.

Occurrences of the Greek word : - ἐβασίλευσαν

Rev 20:4- And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and who had not worshiped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

For those who do not accept that it is possible for a literal 1,000 year “reign” after the Four Beasts, and the Little Horn of Daniel 7:1-12 and Satan are judged in heaven and imprisoned for many days, i.e. for 1,000 years, before their final punishment will to occur after a little while, consider that we presently “reign” in this life through Christ as Paul states in Rom 5:17.

In Rev5:10 it tells us that we in Christ will become a realm on this earth and will serve/reign as priests during the 1,000 years that Christ reigns as a Priest unto God in Heaven. This occurs immediately after the imprisonment of the four beasts, the little horn and Satan in the bottomless pit at the beginning of the Millennium Age. (Please note that the Millennium Age is a little longer than the 1,000 years that the Bottomless pit is locked as it also includes the little while period that Satan and the amalgamated four beasts which rises as a single beast and the little horn, all rise up out of the bottomless pit during the little while period in their last ditch effort to usurp God and establish Satan as a deity.)

In Rev 20:4 it tells us of the resurrection of the Saints who will have been beheaded for their faith in Christ Jesus who will serve/reign with Christ as priests for 1,000 years.

In Rev 20:6 confirms that the saints of the first resurrection will be priests with Christ during the first 1,000 years of the Millennium Age.

Finally, in Rev 22:5 after the final judgement of the “Saints” who call Jesus Lord, it tells us that all the judged righteous Saints will reign/live for ever more.

It seems to me that our English understanding of the English word “reign” is what is causing the expressed dilemma as to whether there is a seventh age to follow this present age.

Christ will be seen in our near future bringing judgement upon the rebelling Gentile Kings of the earth as they attempt to continue the trampling of the Sanctuary in Jerusalem. After the fullness in time of the 2,300 years of the heathen Gentiles trampling the Sanctuary all of Israel will be saved and Christ will be seen entering the Banqueting Hall for a brief period as He enters just before the doors are closed.

Then the harvesting of Souls for Christ will begin as the Saints who enter the Millennium Age go out unopposed by the demonic beasts and Satan to make disciples of all who will listen to them.

Satan of course will have willing human servants to oppose this harvesting of Saints and will continue the oppression of people during the 1,000 year period that Satan is imprisoned. Satan will give his servants the means to continue the oppression of the people around them.

I can point people to the scriptures to justify this post, like for example the last paragraph is supported by the Parables of the Pound and the Talents, i.e. a very large sum of money, but I am sure that some will object to this understanding as they have inserted Christ into both these parables as the man who goes away with the excuse that he does so to get a kingdom.

I believe that the 1,000 year “reign” of Christ is real and is still a future event.

Shalom.

PS. I am presently away on holidays in the far flung reaches of the land that I live in, in a dry parched land.
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Re: "No one knows the Day or Hour"? Are you absolutely sure?

Postby WOODHENOT3 on Thu May 18, 2017 7:11 am

Here's a question,
When Jesus Reigns for 1000 years, is he in the flesh like He was 2000 years ago?
In Christ Always,
Woody
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Re: "No one knows the Day or Hour"? Are you absolutely sure?

Postby Exit40 on Fri May 19, 2017 7:06 am

WOODHENOT3 wrote:Here's a question,
When Jesus Reigns for 1000 years, is he in the flesh like He was 2000 years ago?


Our Lord is now glorified, in his eternal body.

God Bless You

David
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God

T'was Grace that taught my heart to fear.
And Grace, my fears relieved.
How precious did that Grace appear
The hour I first believed.
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Re: "No one knows the Day or Hour"? Are you absolutely sure?

Postby Mr Baldy on Fri May 19, 2017 4:55 pm

WOODHENOT3 wrote:Here's a question,
When Jesus Reigns for 1000 years, is he in the flesh like He was 2000 years ago?


Exit40 wrote:Our Lord is now glorified, in his eternal body.


Interesting response David......

Yes, Jesus is Eternal and Glorified - However, I'd be very careful in identifying His "Glorified Body" as "Eternal".

First, I mention this because Jesus is GOD.

Second, I mention this because Jesus Himself says that GOD is a Spirit. (John 4:24)

Third- I mention this because Jesus hands over the Kingdom to God The Father after the Last Enemy is Destroyed - which is Death So that GOD may be ALL in ALL. (1 Corinthians 15:20-28)

1 Corinthians 15:20-28 - New American Standard Bible (NASB)

The Order of Resurrection

20) But now Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who are asleep. 21) For since by a man came death, by a man also came the resurrection of the dead. 22) For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive. 23) But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christ’s at His coming, 24) Then comes the END, when He hands over the kingdom to the God and Father, when He has abolished all rule and all authority and power. 25) For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet. 26) The last enemy that will be abolished is death. 27) For He has put all things in subjection under His feet. But when He says, “All things are put in subjection,” it is evident that He is excepted who put all things in subjection to Him. 28) When all things are subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also will be subjected to the One who subjected all things to Him, so that God may be ALL in ALL.


The aforementioned passage of Scripture clearly shows that the "Role" of the Son will have come to completion AFTER the Last Enemy is Destroyed - which is Death. He then hands the Kingdome over to God the Father so that GOD may be ALL in ALL.

So, I would be very careful in thinking that Christ will have an 'ENTERNAL' Physical Body.
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Re: "No one knows the Day or Hour"? Are you absolutely sure?

Postby Exit40 on Sat May 20, 2017 5:16 am

Mr Baldy wrote:Yes, Jesus is Eternal and Glorified - However, I'd be very careful in identifying His "Glorified Body" as "Eternal". ...

... So, I would be very careful in thinking that Christ will have an 'ENTERNAL' Physical Body.


Jesus is the very image of God. He says if we have seen Him, we have seen God. And that was when He walked the Earth. I'm not quite sure of your meaning here Mr B. Are you saying Jesus' glorified body has an end ? Does He stop 'being' Christ ?

God Bless You'

David
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God

T'was Grace that taught my heart to fear.
And Grace, my fears relieved.
How precious did that Grace appear
The hour I first believed.
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Re: "No one knows the Day or Hour"? Are you absolutely sure?

Postby Mr Baldy on Sat May 20, 2017 9:17 am

Exit40 wrote:
Mr Baldy wrote:Yes, Jesus is Eternal and Glorified - However, I'd be very careful in identifying His "Glorified Body" as "Eternal". ...

... So, I would be very careful in thinking that Christ will have an 'ENTERNAL' Physical Body.


Jesus is the very image of God. He says if we have seen Him, we have seen God. And that was when He walked the Earth. I'm not quite sure of your meaning here Mr B. Are you saying Jesus' glorified body has an end ? Does He stop 'being' Christ ?

God Bless You'

David


David Jesus is GOD!

Take a look at what you just wrote. Then look at what I wrote - and the Scripture that I provided:
(1Corinthians 15:20-28). Jesus hands the Kingdom to God the Father so that God may be ALL in ALL.

Jesus was not ALWAYS flesh. HE BECAME FLESH in order to provide a way; OR redeem man in order that he may inherit Eternal Life. While it is certainly unknown what the Eternal State will be like - it is very certain that the role of Savior will no longer be necessary when the Last Enemy is defeated. This is the purpose for Jesus handing the Kingdom over to God the Father.

Please look at the passages of Scripture where Jesus says that He and the Father are ONE. There is certainly a message in this verbiage. Bottom Line is....

Jesus is the ONLY God we will EVER see! He Himself very plainly stated that GOD is a SPIRIT.
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Re: "No one knows the Day or Hour"? Are you absolutely sure?

Postby 1whowaits on Sat May 20, 2017 9:30 pm

Jesus is God, but He can appear differently, after all He is God. In Rev 1 He is described 'like a Son of man', dressed in a robe with white hair, but looking God-like with blazing eyes, feet like bronze and a voice like rushing waters. In Rev 1 Jesus has the appearance of a human form but with additional qualities, a much glorified body.

Also in Dan 7 Jesus is described as 'like a son of man' coming in the clouds before the Almighty, a description of a human form.

Paul states in 1 Cor 15- 'If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body...just as we have borne the likeness of the earthly man, so shall we bear the likeness of the man from heaven...for the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true- Death has been swallowed up n victory..'

So we will have an immortal, imperishable, spiritual body, just like Jesus (not sure about the blazing eyes though).
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Re: "No one knows the Day or Hour"? Are you absolutely sure?

Postby Exit40 on Sun May 21, 2017 5:53 am

[quote="Mr Baldy"]

David Jesus is GOD!

No kidding. I guess you thought I didn't know that
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God

T'was Grace that taught my heart to fear.
And Grace, my fears relieved.
How precious did that Grace appear
The hour I first believed.
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Re: "No one knows the Day or Hour"? Are you absolutely sure?

Postby Exit40 on Sun May 21, 2017 5:54 am

Mr Baldy wrote:
David Jesus is GOD!


No kidding. I guess you thought I didn't know that
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God

T'was Grace that taught my heart to fear.
And Grace, my fears relieved.
How precious did that Grace appear
The hour I first believed.
User avatar
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Re: "No one knows the Day or Hour"? Are you absolutely sure?

Postby Mark F on Sun May 21, 2017 7:19 am

Mr Baldy wrote:
WOODHENOT3 wrote:Here's a question,
When Jesus Reigns for 1000 years, is he in the flesh like He was 2000 years ago?


Exit40 wrote:Our Lord is now glorified, in his eternal body.


Interesting response David......

Yes, Jesus is Eternal and Glorified - However, I'd be very careful in identifying His "Glorified Body" as "Eternal".

First, I mention this because Jesus is GOD.

Second, I mention this because Jesus Himself says that GOD is a Spirit. (John 4:24)

Third- I mention this because Jesus hands over the Kingdom to God The Father after the Last Enemy is Destroyed - which is Death So that GOD may be ALL in ALL. (1 Corinthians 15:20-28)

1 Corinthians 15:20-28 - New American Standard Bible (NASB)

The Order of Resurrection

20) But now Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who are asleep. 21) For since by a man came death, by a man also came the resurrection of the dead. 22) For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive. 23) But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christ’s at His coming, 24) Then comes the END, when He hands over the kingdom to the God and Father, when He has abolished all rule and all authority and power. 25) For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet. 26) The last enemy that will be abolished is death. 27) For He has put all things in subjection under His feet. But when He says, “All things are put in subjection,” it is evident that He is excepted who put all things in subjection to Him. 28) When all things are subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also will be subjected to the One who subjected all things to Him, so that God may be ALL in ALL.


The aforementioned passage of Scripture clearly shows that the "Role" of the Son will have come to completion AFTER the Last Enemy is Destroyed - which is Death. He then hands the Kingdome over to God the Father so that GOD may be ALL in ALL.

So, I would be very careful in thinking that Christ will have an 'ENTERNAL' Physical Body.

I have to disagree with you here Mr. Baldy, that is not what the text says.

"then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him who put all things under Him"

How can the Son Himself be subject to Him if the Son sets aside His glorified body? The plain text says that the Son will also be subject. I think you misunderstand this sentence. Jesus told us that He will return and take us unto Himself that where He is , there we may be also. There is a man sitting at the right hand of the Father now, I cannot imagine that He will leave us who will be in glorified bodies just like His to live on in eternity without Him being with us as He promised.

The same word used here for subject was used in Luke 2:51, "Then He went down with them and came to Nazareth, and was subject to them, but His mother kept all these things in her heart." It does not imply any inferiority.

How can this passage be true then? Heb 13:8 "Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever."

Or this? Joh_14:3" And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also."

1Ti 2:5 "For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus,"

Here is another passage that fails if Jesus surrenders His glorified body - Rom 8:28 "And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. 29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren."

He is the firstborn which implies superiority, He is pictured here as supreme surrounded by us, His many brethren. We will forever follow Him and worship Him, we will forever see His nail scarred hands and feet, His wounded side and praise His holy name!

You say your open minded, I think this one for sure you should rethink.
Last edited by Mark F on Sun May 21, 2017 7:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
Mark

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Re: "No one knows the Day or Hour"? Are you absolutely sure?

Postby Mark F on Sun May 21, 2017 7:34 am

kirthril wrote:
In other words, if it were simply that clear, there would be no argument with even the very best and very great Theologians who still are at odds to the proper exegesis of Scripture till this very day.

But it is that clear. People allow their own bias to interpret scripture for them. Human deviation, false teachers, hatred of other sects have caused the many differing views on what scripture or prophecy says. The reason these theologians can't agree is because they all have pre-conceived cognitions on how things play out. Indoctrinated by those who taught them and in turn pass down errant teaching.

There are many out there who are correct in what scripture states. But are people so stiff (not you) that no one listens to them?

for example it was the Northern European (Germany and others) protestant hate for Orthodoxy and Catholicism that led to the shift from a Middle Eastern Antichrist to a Roman Antichrist (from catholic Europe) and Gog as a separate entity coming from Russia (orthodoxy). This ancient hate by Martin Luther who began one of the largest European Protestant Churches has led MILLIONS of Christians since Luther to point to Rome as the harlot of Babylon, Europe as the seat of the AC, Russia as Gog, and so forth.

God stated from the very beginning in Genesis, with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob that it would be from the Ishmaelites that Gods people would be continuously harassed and warred against. The Ishmaelite's are the Arabs. From Arabia came Islam. The bible is a middle eastern centric book. All of Israel's troubles and threats have always come from the Middle eastern peoples. Satan's seat is in Pergamum (turkey). The biggest warmonger against Israel through its ancient history has been the middle eastern peoples. The biggest warmonger against Christianity in our 2000yrs has been the middle eastern peoples. The Ishmaelites. The Arabs. Their religion. Why is anyone looking elsewhere?

Stuff like this is why theologians can't agree. Indoctrination is a scary thing. It should be obvious, but humans can't be trusted to keep to the truth. (btw I don't know or follow any of these experts, many have proven to be false prophets so I take anything I hear now with a grain of salt and rather continue reading for myself than have someone do it for me.)
You see you believe in a very literal "False Prophet" - whereas I do NOT. I wholeheartedly believe that the term "False Prophet" is used to describe the coming Antichrist. So in other words, I believe that the book of Revelations describes them as one and the same. In my very own humble opinion, I believe that Revelation ONLY describes the 4th Empire that will arise - and a SINGLE man that will control it, under the power of Satan.

:a3:
We actually agree on this. I don't know when exactly it started, but I stopped referring to AC and false prophet as two different entities a while ago. Instead, maybe you have noticed I have referred to the "beast" and the "AC", with the beast being his empire and the AC being the ruler. Come to think of it, its been a long time since I referenced the false prophet.

But yeah, I now believe the false prophet IS the AC. Because I adhere to a middle eastern Islamic AC it makes sense for the AC to be called a prophet. Because that is exactly who the Mahdi is to muslims.

Also, once I realized the "beast" is a empire and not a man (which is what I was taught growing up, beast=AC), then it became obvious that if beast = empire, then False Prophet would then = AC.

I like your thinking here, I am pretty much with you.

The narrative always includes the Nations around Israel, the peoples are those common enemies that as you point out, that have continually antagonized them.....as is the case today.
Mark

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Re: "No one knows the Day or Hour"? Are you absolutely sure?

Postby Mark F on Sun May 21, 2017 7:53 am

brett wrote:Hello all,

I'm going to start off this post saying - I am not 100% sure what is the correct interpretation of Matthew 24:36:
36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

That's the purpose of this post........let's look at this matter and see if in fact we could possibly know the day or hour.........was Jesus really meaning we could never know? Will no man EVER know the day or hour of His coming? Or was His statement more limited in its time frame? First off we know that ALL WILL know the day and hour when that day finally comes.....so there will come a time when we ALL know the day and hour........so His statement is not true for all time......So already we can see that this statement in Matthew 24:36 has a time limit.....and who exactly was Jesus speaking to? Was Jesus really speaking to all believers throughout all time?

Firstly lets consider another scripture:
Acts 1
6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.


But then look at this:

1 Thessalonians 5
1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
......
4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.


So in Acts 1:7 it was not for the DISCIPLES to know the times or the seasons, but in 1 Thess 5:1-6 it is for believers to know the times and the seasons? Hmmm..... strange, there is obviously an explanation for this apparent contradiction. This contradiction reveals a different message for a different audience. Obviously Jesus answer was intended ONLY for the disciples, whereas Paul is speaking to all believers, of his time and future. Remember this difference as it could be relevant to Matthew 24:36, which could be speaking to a certain audience.

Matthew 24
33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.


Ok so much of Matthew 24 (prior to verse 33) is talking about the events leading up to his return (2nd coming). So who is Jesus really talking to? The 1st century audience in front of Him or to that 21st century generation that will experience these events? It seems to me that the relevant audience is the future 21st century generation that will see these signs. Ok so in verse 34 Jesus says "Verily I say unto YOU". Who is Jesus talking to here? The fact He calls them "this generation" seems to me that Jesus at this point is talking to His immediate 1st century audience again. So could verse 36 still be for the 1st century audience? Could it be for that time? ..... was Jesus saying that the matter had not YET been revealed to anyone? That is was only something that could be known at some future time - revealed to a future generation, in its due season......

Matthew 24
42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.
45 Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?


Ok assuming revelation of the timing of the "day and hour" of Jesus return will come to a future "generation".....then we can see the purpose of WATCHING. So Jesus is saying we don't currently know.....but the matter will be revealed in due season.....hence the need to watch in order to know. Those who watch will know, those who don't watch will not know. Look at verse 45 it talks about those faithful and wise servants who will give meat in DUE SEASON. What meat is Jesus talking about? Well since Jesus has just been talking about the need to keep watching....it makes sense Jesus is saying the meat is the knowledge (revelation) of the timing of his return, the hour.....Let's look at more scripture:

Matthew 24
48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;
49 And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;
50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,


This scripture (along with 1 Thess 5) makes it abundantly clear ONLY those in darkness, only the wicked will be caught off guard by the Lords return. What is the reason given? Because they were not WATCHING. Notice also the wording used in verse 50. It states that the wicked servant will be visited in an unknown day and an unknown hour.......so the opposite means that the good servant will be visited in a KNOWN DAY AND KNOWN HOUR.

Can you also see there is a purpose in God only giving the "MEAT" (information of the timing of Christs return) in its DUE SEASON? Because it will sift the believers from the unbelievers, good from bad. If you don't love the Lord, nor take the bible seriously, and DON'T keep watch faithfully - you will miss the MEAT (revealing) when it comes in its due season.......

The fact we're told to keep watch tells me that "MEAT" (revelation) will be coming in the future to give advanced knowledge "LIGHT" of the event - before it happens. Because Jesus will NOT be a thief to those who watch.....they will know in advance, they will be ready because they will know. This also ties in with Daniel when we're told instruction and understanding will be coming.

Daniel 11
32 And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits.
33 And they that understand among the people shall instruct many: yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, many days.


Note it says those who understand will instruct many. This doesn't specifically say they will instruct of the "day or hour", but it does show meat coming in its due season from the wise servants of Gods people.


So if Jesus is not a thief to believers can we conclude that if we keep watch - we can know the day and hour in advance?

Its an interesting question.........I am starting to consider it may be possible for us to know the day or hour of Christs return.........that in due season the relevant generation will be fed MEAT for that "season"......only the wicked will not know.

Finally look at this scripture:
John 16
13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.


So regarding the original verse: But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. I am now seeing it could mean that at the time Jesus spoke the matter was still hidden, even to Jesus, but at a future time - it would be revealed - in due season the meat being given by the Holy Spirit - to the relevant generation.

So in conclusion I'm going to keep this door open, I'm still undecided - but I see a possibility we could know the day & hour. I wanted to show everyone here that this is not necessarily a simple matter. Matthew 24:36 may need more consideration as we may indeed be the generation who can know the day & hour of Christs return.

.


I would say it is self evident we do not know. Your first passage Matt 24:36 is clear.

Paul writes in 1 Thes 5 that indeed the Lord will come as a thief in the night, but we shouldn't be surprised as believers we know it is coming, AND we are to watch to discern when it is near.
Mark

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Re: "No one knows the Day or Hour"? Are you absolutely sure?

Postby Mr Baldy on Sun May 21, 2017 5:41 pm

Mark F wrote:I have to disagree with you here Mr. Baldy, that is not what the text says."then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him who put all things under Him"How can the Son Himself be subject to Him if the Son sets aside His glorified body? The plain text says that the Son will also be subject. I think you misunderstand this sentence. Jesus told us that He will return and take us unto Himself that where He is , there we may be also. There is a man sitting at the right hand of the Father now, I cannot imagine that He will leave us who will be in glorified bodies just like His to live on in eternity without Him being with us as He promised.


Hi Mark F,

I had typed out an elaborate response to your aforementioned comments - and I lost it all. But let me mention this, as I am so frustrated that I did not put my response into a word document and save it.

First - I want to say that the GODHEAD is a Mystery.

Second - I want to say that Jesus IS GOD. He was with GOD in the Beginning and BECAME Flesh - so He did not always have a BODY.

The very body that Jesus dwelled in as God - HE Created, as He created EVERYTHING. So to think that a physical body can contain Him would be a mistake on your part. The very Universe cannot contain Him.

Last - Jesus allowed Thomas to touch His Resurrected Body which contained nail prints and scar. The role of the Son as Redeemer is limited. Scripture is clear about that when He hands over the Kingdom to the Father. Furthermore, there will be no more remembrance of this Earth - or the "former things" that happened in this Earth.

ALL things will be created New.

So again, I'd be very careful in thinking that Christ will live throughout Eternity with nail prints in His hands, and a scar in His body from the Crucifixion. There is no reason or purpose for this.

It has NOT appeared what we shall be in the Eternal State.
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Re: "No one knows the Day or Hour"? Are you absolutely sure?

Postby Jay Ross on Mon May 22, 2017 1:57 am

Did not Jesus on the night that he was betrayed, take the cup of wine and said to his disciples that he would not drink of the wine until such time that his body was renewed with theirs?

So IF Jesus did not think that His body would be renewed until His disciples' bodies were renewed at the time of the second resurrection, then Jesus should look like he did immediately after the crucifixion.

But then again, Jesus said that His body would be renewed like their would be and did not think that he would be given a brand new body.

Shalom
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Re: "No one knows the Day or Hour"? Are you absolutely sure?

Postby WOODHENOT3 on Mon May 22, 2017 7:50 am

ALL things will be created New.

So again, I'd be very careful in thinking that Christ will live throughout Eternity with nail prints in His hands, and a scar in His body from the Crucifixion. There is no reason or purpose for this.

It has NOT appeared what we shall be in the Eternal State.


Amen Mr. Baldy!!
In Christ Always,
Woody
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Re: "No one knows the Day or Hour"? Are you absolutely sure?

Postby Mark F on Mon May 22, 2017 4:19 pm

Mr Baldy wrote:
Hi Mark F,

I had typed out an elaborate response to your aforementioned comments - and I lost it all. But let me mention this, as I am so frustrated that I did not put my response into a word document and save it.

First - I want to say that the GODHEAD is a Mystery.

Second - I want to say that Jesus IS GOD. He was with GOD in the Beginning and BECAME Flesh - so He did not always have a BODY.

The very body that Jesus dwelled in as God - HE Created, as He created EVERYTHING. So to think that a physical body can contain Him would be a mistake on your part. The very Universe cannot contain Him.

Last - Jesus allowed Thomas to touch His Resurrected Body which contained nail prints and scar. The role of the Son as Redeemer is limited. Scripture is clear about that when He hands over the Kingdom to the Father. Furthermore, there will be no more remembrance of this Earth - or the "former things" that happened in this Earth.

ALL things will be created New.

So again, I'd be very careful in thinking that Christ will live throughout Eternity with nail prints in His hands, and a scar in His body from the Crucifixion. There is no reason or purpose for this.

It has NOT appeared what we shall be in the Eternal State.


I understand what it's like to loose a post that I have spent a bunch of time on. I don't post much anymore, and they are usually not very long so I don't type them in another program anymore either.

You most surely are free to believe as you choose, but why is it that I should "be very careful in thinking that Christ will live throughout Eternity with nail prints in His hands, and a scar in His body from the Crucifixion?"

I happen to believe wholeheartedly that I will "see" my Lord and Savior for eternity, the Scriptures promise me He will never leave me nor forsake me, and that He is the same, yesterday, today, and forever.

I am puzzled by your comment headed "Last," I am of the opinion that the role of the Son as redeemer is THE PINNACLE accomplishment in all of time and eternity. There will never be anything to eclipse or overtake it.

I am sorry you feel that way, but as I said you sure are free to believe as you choose.

Rev 22:3 "And there shall be no more curse, but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it, and His servants shall serve Him.
Rev 22:4 They shall see His face, and His name shall be on their foreheads."
Mark

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Re: "No one knows the Day or Hour"? Are you absolutely sure?

Postby GodsStudent on Tue May 23, 2017 10:12 am

hmmm.....God in THREE PERSONS, Blessed TRINITY......that's what I have to say about this.....with respect to the Jubilee.....God the FATHER will indeed rest and GOD THE SON will physically be on this earth with us.....and while they are the same, they are IN THREE PERSONS.....
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Re: "No one knows the Day or Hour"? Are you absolutely sure?

Postby Mr Baldy on Tue May 23, 2017 5:30 pm

Mark F wrote:You most surely are free to believe as you choose, but why is it that I should "be very careful in thinking that Christ will live throughout Eternity with nail prints in His hands, and a scar in His body from the Crucifixion?"I happen to believe wholeheartedly that I will "see" my Lord and Savior for eternity, the Scriptures promise me He will never leave me nor forsake me, and that He is the same, yesterday, today, and forever.I am puzzled by your comment headed "Last," I am of the opinion that the role of the Son as redeemer is THE PINNACLE accomplishment in all of time and eternity. There will never be anything to eclipse or overtake it.


Mark F.....

Let me respectfully address a few of the things you have mentioned.

First, we are ALL free to believe as we choose. The reason why I mentioned that one should be very careful in thinking about Christ dwelling throughout Eternity with nail prints in His hands and the scar from the Crucifixion is based on what Scripture tells us - and NOT A MANS OPINION.

You see, many want to put GOD in a BOX and figure that they have Him ALL Figured OUT - when to the contrary it is QUITE the opposite.

Jesus CHRIST is GOD. He is the ONLY GOD we will ever see. The manifestation of the GODHEAD is a Mystery that NO Man can understand as it has not been revealed to us. This is why I have mentioned that one has to be very careful.

You have plainly stated that He is the same "yesterday, today, and tomorrow" - yet you have not provided ANY evidence on how He existed before He Became FLESH. Point of the matter is WE just don't know. Again, the GODHEAD is a mystery. Jesus Himself very plainly stated that GOD IS A SPIRIT- (John 4:24)

1 Corinthians 15:20-28 clearly gives us sufficient evident that the Son hands the Kingdom over to God the Father so that God may be all in all. The Book of Revelation clearly mentions in the Eternal State that the former things that happened on this current Earth will no longer be remembered - nor will they even come to mind. Christ's ROLE as Redeemer and Savior is limited to the time that He has Reigned and defeated the Last Enemy, which is DEATH.
He is GOD. He and the Father are ONE.

So, now When ALL things are Created NEW - we have NO idea what it will be like as mentioned by John:

1 John 3:2 - New American Standard Bible (NASB)

Beloved, now we are children of God, and it has not appeared as yet what we will be. We know that when He appears, we will be like Him, because we will see Him just as He is


When Christ was Resurrected the Disciples among many others saw Him in His Resurrected Body. So, if He was witnessed by many After His Resurrection - why would John write the aforementioned?

Bottom Line - again, I'd be very careful thinking that Christ will be walking throughout Eternity with nail pierced hands/wrists and an eternal scar in His side as it makes NO SENSE.
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Re: "No one knows the Day or Hour"? Are you absolutely sure?

Postby WOODHENOT3 on Wed May 24, 2017 5:19 am

God the FATHER will indeed rest and GOD THE SON will physically be on this earth with us.....and while they are the same, they are IN THREE PERSONS...


Is this an assumption?
Where does it say Jesus body becomes physical again?
Where does it say God the Father will rest for 1000 years?

Thanks, :)
In Christ Always,
Woody
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Re: "No one knows the Day or Hour"? Are you absolutely sure?

Postby GodsStudent on Wed May 24, 2017 6:58 am

WOODHENOT3 wrote:
God the FATHER will indeed rest and GOD THE SON will physically be on this earth with us.....and while they are the same, they are IN THREE PERSONS...


Is this an assumption?
Where does it say Jesus body becomes physical again?
Where does it say God the Father will rest for 1000 years?

Thanks, :)


Woody, if you don't believe Christ reigns from earth for 1000 years, that's ok with me. Nowhere in my comment did I say whether Jesus body became physical again or not, so that question is not for me.
As to the 1000 year jubilee, I have not done my own research on it in scripture, but have read many papers on it over time (several years ago) and came to believe that it made perfect sense based on God's timings historically. That said, I wouldn't "fight" for the position, especially since I don't have all of the "stuff" I read in a neat place for me to access right now (I just moved a week ago and my little world is literally all over the place right now).
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Re: "No one knows the Day or Hour"? Are you absolutely sure?

Postby brett on Fri May 26, 2017 3:38 am

WOODHENOT3 wrote:Here's a question,
When Jesus Reigns for 1000 years, is he in the flesh like He was 2000 years ago?


YES

When Jesus rose from the dead He appeared to the disciples as real flesh and bones, remember doubting Thomas.........

Luke 24
39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
40 And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet.
41 And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat?
42 And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb.
43 And he took it, and did eat before them.


Jesus appeared unto the disciples off and on for many days before He finally ascended. God can change from spiritual to physical whenever He wants........consider these scriptures and note the statement that the doors were shut:

John 20
19 Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.


John 20
26 And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you.


As Jesus ascended into heaven the angels said He would return in like manner........His ascension was PHYSICAL, He ascended in a body, up to the clouds (the clouds hid his physical body from their sight). We too will all receive new incorruptible bodies.........let's not look down to much on the physical realm..........the physical realm will still continue on.........its part of God's creation too you know...........

Acts 1:
9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.


Jesus Christ is the FIRST FRUITS, the first to be RESURRECTED, believers will too be RESURRECTED at Christs 2nd Coming - those that have died - those of us who remain (who are still alive) will be caught up in the air with Christ too and we will all be given NEW INCORRUPTIBLE PHYSICAL BODIES.

.
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Re: "No one knows the Day or Hour"? Are you absolutely sure?

Postby WOODHENOT3 on Fri May 26, 2017 1:48 pm

brett wrote:
WOODHENOT3 wrote:Here's a question,
When Jesus Reigns for 1000 years, is he in the flesh like He was 2000 years ago?


YES

When Jesus rose from the dead He appeared to the disciples as real flesh and bones, remember doubting Thomas.........

Luke 24
39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
40 And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet.
41 And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat?
42 And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb.
43 And he took it, and did eat before them.


Jesus appeared unto the disciples off and on for many days before He finally ascended. God can change from spiritual to physical whenever He wants........consider these scriptures and note the statement that the doors were shut:

John 20
19 Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.


John 20
26 And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you.


As Jesus ascended into heaven the angels said He would return in like manner........His ascension was PHYSICAL, He ascended in a body, up to the clouds (the clouds hid his physical body from their sight). We too will all receive new incorruptible bodies.........let's not look down to much on the physical realm..........the physical realm will still continue on.........its part of God's creation too you know...........

Acts 1:
9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.


Jesus Christ is the FIRST FRUITS, the first to be RESURRECTED, believers will too be RESURRECTED at Christs 2nd Coming - those that have died - those of us who remain (who are still alive) will be caught up in the air with Christ too and we will all be given NEW INCORRUPTIBLE PHYSICAL BODIES.

.


Thank you Brett, I appreciate it!
Now speaking of the NEW INCORRUPTIBLE PHYSICAL BODIES, if it's phsical then there will still be women and men like Adam and Eve before they sinned?
In Christ Always,
Woody
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Re: "No one knows the Day or Hour"? Are you absolutely sure?

Postby Mr Baldy on Fri May 26, 2017 4:48 pm

brett wrote:we will all be given NEW INCORRUPTIBLE PHYSICAL BODIES.


Ahem........ :humm:

Please provide Scripture that we will be given "INCORRUPTIBLE PHYSICAL BODIES".


This is what John said - who most certainly saw Jesus after He was Resurrected:

Mr Baldy wrote:1 John 3:2 - New American Standard Bible (NASB)

Beloved, now we are children of God, and it has not appeared as yet what we will be. We know that when He appears, we will be like Him, because we will see Him just as He is.


While it is true that this mortal must put on immortality - what does this mean?

Well - here is what Scripture has to say:

1 Corinthians 15:35-57 - New American Standard Bible (NASB)

35) But someone will say, “How are the dead raised? And with what kind of body do they come?” 36) You fool! That which you sow does not come to life unless it dies; 37) and that which you sow, you do not sow the body which is to be, but a bare grain, perhaps of wheat or of something else. 38) But God gives it a body just as He wished, and to each of the seeds a body of its own. 39) All flesh is not the same flesh, but there is one flesh of men, and another flesh of beasts, and another flesh of birds, and another of fish. 40) There are also heavenly bodies and earthly bodies, but the glory of the heavenly is one, and the glory of the earthly is another. 41) There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for star differs from star in glory.

42) So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown a perishable body, it is raised an imperishable body; 43) it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; 44) it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. 45) So also it is written, “The first man, Adam, became a living soul.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit. 46) However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural; then the spiritual. 47) The first man is from the earth, earthy; the second man is from heaven. 48) As is the earthy, so also are those who are earthy; and as is the heavenly, so also are those who are heavenly. 49) Just as we have borne the image of the earthy, we will also bear the image of the heavenly.

The Mystery of Resurrection

50) Now I say this, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51) Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed, 52) in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53) For this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54) But when this perishable will have put on the imperishable, and this mortal will have put on immortality, then will come about the saying that is written, “Death is swallowed up in victory. 55) O death, where is your victory? O death, where is your sting?” 56) The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law; 57) but thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.


IN CLOSING:

In the aforementioned passages of Scripture - there is absolutely NOTHING that would imply or indicate that the Spiritual Bodies that we will receive at the Resurrection will be Physical.

Again, John clearly states "It has not appeared as yet what we will be" - Yet Christ APPEARED to the Disciples AFTER His Resurrection.
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Re: "No one knows the Day or Hour"? Are you absolutely sure?

Postby brett on Fri May 26, 2017 6:41 pm

MrBaldy here's the difference.

FLESH AND BLOOD will not inherit the Kingdom of God, but FLESH and BONE will. As far as I can tell, Jesus RAISED physical body did not have BLOOD, but was FLESH and BONE. I gather that our present bodies survive on blood, but that our new incorruptible bodies will not have blood and will instead survive on the spirit alone.

That's my best guess. But its clear that Jesus states He had real flesh and real bone that was physical. It's also clear Jesus could still eat physical food in His new body. So I'm concluding that our new incorruptible bodies will no longer have blood, but will just be flesh and bone. But this is not a doctrine, this is my own views & speculation on the matter. But Jesus was absolutely physically resurrected, and we will be too - that part is doctrine. How our new physical bodies work exactly - that's speculation....I don't fully know.

Here's some other scripture:

Job 19
25 For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:
26 And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:


Its amazing that even Job way back in the Old Testament understood the coming resurrection.

2 Corinthians 5:8
8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.


When a believer dies his/her soul/spirit goes immediately to be with the Lord. We remain conscious, only our body sleeps in the earth.

Rev 6
9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.


Here we have believers in heaven who have died and are asking God - how long until their blood is avenged? They are conscious, talking and waiting in heaven. When we die our soul/spirit goes straight to heaven, the resurrection is when we get our physical bodies back again as new incorruptible physical bodies. Unbelievers have their soul/spirit go straight to hell. Consider the story of the Rich man and Lazarus.

Luke 16
22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom..
24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.


Believers are conscious in heaven, unbelievers are conscious in hell. The body remains on earth, dead and decaying, asleep in the earth.

1 Thessalonians 4
13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words..


Those who are dead in Christ now, have their soul/spirit in heaven now, while their bodies sleep (decay) in the earth. When Jesus returns, he will bring back the souls/spirits of believers from heaven to unite them with their new incorruptible bodies on earth - which will RISE from the earth. So the Soul/spirit comes down from heaven, and the body rises from the earth.

Philippians 3
21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.


1 Corinthians 6:14
14 And God hath both raised up the Lord, and will also raise up us by his own power.


Also MrBaldy - please read the KJV - all these new translations are corrupted.

God Bless

.
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Re: "No one knows the Day or Hour"? Are you absolutely sure?

Postby Mr Baldy on Sat May 27, 2017 2:55 am

brett wrote: So I'm concluding that our new incorruptible bodies will no longer have blood, but will just be flesh and bone. But this is not a doctrine, this is my own views & speculation on the matter.


Thank you for your response Brett. I certainly respect and appreciate when one can be honest about their views.

There are a few things that come to mind when I think about what we will be like:

1) At the Transfiguration - Moses, Elijah, and Jesus were viewed in a Glorified state - yet at that moment none of
them had been resurrected.

2) Also Enoch and Elijah were taken up into Heaven and never tasted death - yet Scripture indicates that Flesh & Blood
cannot inherit the Kingdom of God.

So again, I really appreciate and respect your view. I too once believed that our Spiritual Bodies will be flesh & bone - but the truth of the matter is, as the Apostle John stated (who was at the Transfiguration as well) it hasn't appeared what we shall be.
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