Is there anyone for a Christian to vote for?

[bluejay]

I have listen to the politic's and really sick of it all. But the worst part is I feel so discourage on even voting. I don't for sure want Obama back in. But a morman is our other choice? Is it wrong as a christian to vote for someone that is not a follower of Jesus? I feel so frustrated and almost want to just stay out of it. Or maybe vote for a 3rd party. But yet I fear Obama's plans for us. I asked my husband what his thoughts are. He repeated God says you either with me or not. So he feels its wrong to vote for someone whom is not in Gods favor. This election only brings me confusion and the feeling of depression for our future. Is God testing his people to see what their stand is on their faith? Its our free well to choose.. Then it comes to my mind. Maybe.... just maybe we won't be here to even to deal with it. For The Feast of Trumpets happens before the election. I do keep in mind.... God is in control!

[laney]

Your not alone in your feelings and thoughts bluejay. Guess we need to be praying hard for the Lord to lead us to make the right choice. If we ask for His guidence then it is up to Him to lead us in what to do.

[Jericho]

I'm sure you'll get a big response with this one. We're stuck with Obama or Romney, one of the two will be the president for the next four years. Neither is ideal but one is far more dangerous to this country than the other IMO. My opinion is not voting or voting for a 3rd party is giving your vote to Obama, which will do more harm than good. Of course the choice is ultimately up to you.

I don't believe it is necessarily wrong to note vote for a non-Christian, I can't think of any scriptures on the matter. It comes down to your own convictions. I think that if this nation had not turned so far from God, Obama would not have been elected to begin with. But I guess we get the kind of leaders we deserve.

[SueAnn]

There are 2 verses in Scripture that I think of whenever I am feeling frustrated by a lack of Christian choices at election time...


"Render unto Ceaser that which is Ceaser's..." [Obey the laws of your land and be a good citizen. A large part of good citizenship in a Democratic Republic such as ours, is our responsibility to exercise our right to vote.]

"Pray for your leaders..." [Regardless of which candidate wins, we are to pray on their behalf.]

[bluejay]

I'm sure you'll get a big response with this one. We're stuck with Obama or Romney, one of the two will be the president for the next four years. Neither is ideal but one is far more dangerous to this country than the other IMO. My opinion is not voting or voting for a 3rd party is giving your vote to Obama, which will do more harm than good. Of course the choice is ultimately to you.

I don't believe it is necessarily wrong to note vote for a non-Christian, I can't think of any scriptures on the matter. It comes down to your own convictions and opinions on the matter. I think that if this nation had not turned so far from God Obama would not have been elected to begin with, but I guess we get the kind of leaders we deserve.

I guess it goes back to what my mom says... you have to vote for the lesser evil of the evil. Your right... Our country has turned their backs on God. I saw something written by a young Jewish girl that had just arrived in Israel. She was kissing the ground. The there was those words that got to me. AMERICA, YOU WILL SOON GET YOUR JUDGEMENT FROM GOD.
I have read that we are repeating history. That is how Hitler got the chance to do his evil. Peoples stupity.... It was their choice. I will pray hard on this and I know God will lead me. Thank you!

[bluejay]

Sueann, funny but that verse comes to my mind a lot! You guys are already making me feel better. I wish there was a like button on here! But I know I will get some uplifting writing from my true family.

[mrgravyard49]

Im no big fan of Romney but he or ANYONE is better than Obama.. we need to get the Muslim out of America's Whitehouse..

[GodsStudent]

I haven't appreciated my choices in the elections for the past several elections. This one is no different. We see the results of Ephesians 6: 12, and as for me, I've been seeing the results of it escalating for several, no more than several years. Im not sure I always knew to associate this with Ephesians 6: 12, but certainly in the past two elections I haven't had any trouble reconciling my thoughts here.

I see both sides playing to the middle, so there are no choices unless I write in a name. At the end of the day, I will vote against Obama, because of what I know about him. That being said, I will knowingly be voting for someone else I don't particularly trust.

[Resurrection Torchlight]

Im no big fan of Romney but he or ANYONE is better than Obama.. we need to get the Muslim out of America's Whitehouse..

I am not convinced that Romney will be any better for our country than Obama. Sorry if that upsets some of you folks, but a wolf who is disguised in sheep's clothing is just as bad or worse than the one who dresses like the wolf that he is.

I am not saying that we should neglect to exercise our right to vote, but let's not kid ourselves, it is God who puts men in places of authority.

Romans 13:1
1 Every person is to be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God.

I personally cannot vote for either Romney or Obama. It goes against my conscience to do so, perhaps we should all agree to write in a candidate and using the technology available to us, get everyone else on board? What a total upset that would be huh? All these billions of dollars spent on campaigning and wouldn't it just be crazy if a write in won because Americans united together to get rid of the status quot? Oh yeah I know it's a very long shot, but just think about what if???........

But don't ask me who that write in would be?

RT

[bluejay]

RT, I know what your saying. My husband and I feel the same way. Its so frustrating. If Obama gets it again and we are suffering, I may regret my not voting him out. But on the other hand the other may be bad also. But can it be worst? I don't want to do anything to make God disappointed in me. Voting for a Mormon might be defensive to him. Mean while the more I read about our future with Obama I just want to get him out....Why tell me why the people today are so blinded and they pick these awful candidates?
Jesus Please.... just come.

[Jericho]

I am not convinced that Romney will be any better for our country than Obama. Sorry if that upsets some of you folks, but a wolf who is disguised in sheep's clothing is just as bad or worse than the one who dresses like the wolf that he is.

Hey RT! No offense taken here. I don't expect things will improve much with Romney, If we are truly in the end-times I expect America will continue it's decline. However do we want to speed up the decay or slow it down? Obama will most asurdley speed it up, Romney will slow it down. Given the choice I'd rather slow it down.

[jgilberAZ]

Constitution Party Preamble

The Constitution Party gratefully acknowledges the blessing of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ as Creator, Preserver and Ruler of the Universe and of these United States. We hereby appeal to Him for mercy, aid, comfort, guidance and the protection of His Providence as we work to restore and preserve these United States.

This great nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religions but on the Gospel of Jesus Christ. For this very reason peoples of other faiths have been and are afforded asylum, prosperity, and freedom of worship here.

The goal of the Constitution Party is to restore American jurisprudence to its Biblical foundations and to limit the federal government to its Constitutional boundaries.

http://www.goodeforpresident2012.com/

Q: Will I waste my vote if I support Constitution Party candidates?

A: In recent elections, millions of conservatives did not vote because neither of the major party candidates represented them. The number of voters not aligned with either the Republican or Democratic parties has grown every year. Currently, more and more principled voters simply will not cast a vote for the “lesser of two evils.” Also, strong third parties have historically influenced electoral outcomes by drawing crucial votes from Republican and Democratic candidates. In addition, issues such as the abolition of slavery, women’s suffrage and a balanced federal budget were introduced by third parties.

A person’s vote is truly wasted when he does not use it to express his actual beliefs. How can we expect to have principled leaders if we do not have a principled electorate?

A vote for the Constitution Party is a vote for the Constitution and an investment in America’s restoration.

[Exit40]

Jeff, thank you for that info. I hope he gets into the Presidential debates, the nation needs to hear this man.

God Bless You

David

[Exit40]

Hi RT.

But don't ask me who that write in would be?

I have many of my friends halfheartedly ready to write in Lisa's dog Beau. Brought the meaning of ' Blue dog Democrat' to 'Blue Tick Democrat'. Sheesh, sometimes I crack myself up.

God Bless You

David

[Exit40]

There are 2 verses in Scripture that I think of whenever I am feeling frustrated by a lack of Christian choices at election time...


"Render unto Ceaser that which is Ceaser's..." [Obey the laws of your land and be a good citizen. A large part of good citizenship in a Democratic Republic such as ours, is our responsibility to exercise our right to vote.]

"Pray for your leaders..." [Regardless of which candidate wins, we are to pray on their behalf.]

Good verses SueAnn, as well for your comments. Just want to say though, we are a Constitutional Republic, and through that a Congressional Representative Democracy, that being one third of our govt's powers through checks and balances with Executive and Judicial being the other two. They are all supposed to uphold and protect the constitution.

God Bless You

David

[daffodyllady]

When Paul said to honor the king, who was the king at the time?

A rank heathen.

Therefore, I do not think it is dishonoring to God to choose between two heathens.

We are not voting for a pastor! Christians should not expect our government leaders to be pastor material.

For too long, Christians have been enmeshed with the government of the country, trying to take control of evil men by force. We are not called to relate to this world in that way! That worldview is carried over from a Dark Ages Catholic domination mindset.

In voting, we are simply stating our opinion on who we think will do a better job of ensuring the continuation of our freedoms.

After all, the point of praying for all who are in authority, is so that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in godliness and honesty.

1Ti 2:1-3 I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;
For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.
For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;

[mrgravyard49]

Has everyone forgot? When Israel turned away from God they got what they DIDNT want..
America has turned away from God and we got when we DONT WANT or NEED.. in our Whitehouse.
Our only choices are Romney or Obama, we KNOW how EVIL Obama is... Sorry Loved Ones to me this is a No Brainer.

[Sword of Geddon]

When Paul said to honor the king, who was the king at the time?

A rank heathen.

Therefore, I do not think it is dishonoring to God to choose between two heathens.

We are not voting for a pastor! Christians should not expect our government leaders to be pastor material.

For too long, Christians have been enmeshed with the government of the country, trying to take control of evil men by force. We are not called to relate to this world in that way! That worldview is carried over from a Dark Ages Catholic domination mindset.

[/quote]

Going to have to disagree with you again, but "dark ages dominism" is a mindset which I agree with.

Are we to respect Obama? To honor him? I refuse to do either. Respect is not automatic, respect is earned...and I will never respect someone like Obama, a man who shows total disregard for life , the law, and mocks God and believers. He may technically be President..but he will never be my President.

Do not forget that if it were not for "dominism", there wouldn't be any Christians left alive today. Christianity was preserved, protected, and expanded under "dominism", into Eastern Europe and eventually the Americas. It was this same "dominism" that beat back Islamic expansion. Sorry, but I don't think "dominism" is a bad thing at all. Look at Europe today. First the Christians stopped fighting for what they believed in. Then they stopped believing, and as a result Islam has taken Europe without a fight.

Evil wins when Good men do nothing. I see plenty of non-action..all in some misguided belief that we are not part of this world. If you live here..breathe here, exist here...this world is yours. This world is yours but your king is the Lord. Therefore, a Christian battling evil in any moral way you can is something you should, no..something you MUST do.

I see some welcoming persecution, that is your choice..but choose to fight, to take back this country. In the words of the good Christians who were willing to fight tyranny, whose courageous actions made this country possible: "We have no king...but King Jesus"

Eze 3:16 At the end of seven days the word of the LORD came to me:
Eze 3:17 "Son of man, I have made you a watchman for the house of Israel; so hear the word I speak and give them warning from me.
Eze 3:18 When I say to a wicked man, 'You will surely die,' and you do not warn him or speak out to dissuade him from his evil ways in order to save his life, that wicked man will die for* his sin, and I will hold you accountable for his blood.
Eze 3:19 But if you do warn the wicked man and he does not turn from his wickedness or from his evil ways, he will die for his sin; but you will have saved yourself.
Eze 3:20 "Again, when a righteous man turns from his righteousness and does evil, and I put a stumbling block before him, he will die. Since you did not warn him, he will die for his sin. The righteous things he did will not be remembered, and I will hold you accountable for his blood.
Eze 3:21 But if you do warn the righteous man not to sin and he does not sin, he will surely live because he took warning, and you will have saved yourself."

Vote for the man who could be better..over the man who is evil. Then maybe next time we can vote in a righteous man.

[JohnE]

Wow, I took a long time to write this and missed all your responses! jgilberaz, I voted Constitutional party last election!

Anyway - here is my opinion...

I’m amazed, confused, and also disappointed with the way the American population has allowed the “powers that be” to brainwash the voting population with the two party process. The “lesser of two evils“ concept, and trying to prevent people (in my opinion) from voting their consciences has got to end. I’m amazed how many very intelligent believers are so “bought in” to the two party process, and also allow the media to define the game, rules, and choices. It’s the same way the poll results are posted, have you ever realized the framing of the questions and the “results” of these polls that are fed to us on a daily basis? It’s a slow process brothers and sisters, and requires our apathy. I’m guilty of that also. They’re counting on that, and the people that want to run things have bought the press and have been “feeding” us for quite a while, and we unwittingly allow ourselves to get nudged down a street we wouldn’t otherwise travel.
I almost left this forum over the political discussion threads earlier in the process for POTUS. I decided to write this instead.
Please wake up and vote for Ron Paul. He is a Christian (contrary to what some here profess). Please don’t allow the media to take quotes out of text and play on your passionate beliefs regarding foreign policy from GOD’S perspective – especially on Israel – please remember he is a Christian and GOD is always working on him too. I honestly believe that he is the most viable candidate for the office of President of the United States and the only one that even comes close to my personal belief in what I feel was the original constitution’s intent, “that avoiding the tyranny of government was crucial to our guarantee of our “core rights”.
I propose those rights were the reason we were guaranteed by the authors, GRANTED by our CREATOR, and only backed by the constitution of the United States of America, to Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. Let’s please return to our roots here regarding the laws placed upon us by men. Do you believe you were given the right (by GOD) to have Life, Liberty, and the right to pursue Happiness in this country? Do you have those rights now? I say no. I wonder “how did we get here”?
Please follow my lead in voting my conscience against what the media tells me is a hopeless cause, and write in Ron Paul for President of the United States, whatever state you are in. Please also be sure he is eligible in your state as a “write in” candidate. If not, maybe help?
May GOD continue to bless us and restore our land. In the name of Jesus I pray. Amen.

[mrgravyard49]

Hum, Not sure about Ron Paul being a Christian.. DIdnt he help Romney get Herman Cain Kicked out of the running over phony Sex charges?

[daffodyllady]

Sword, I expected you to disagree with my post.
I don't take it personally.
But I still think I'm right.

[Sword of Geddon]

Sword, I expected you to disagree with my post.
I don't take it personally.
But I still think I'm right.

Your probably right on alot of things, just as I probably am. I don't take things personally either..in fact I have alot of respect for you.

[Sword of Geddon]

Hum, Not sure about Ron Paul being a Christian.. DIdnt he help Romney get Herman Cain Kicked out of the running over phony Sex charges?

Was that the source of that story? That is the first time I heard Ron Paul(and Romney for that matter) involved in that travesty back in November 2011.

[denise]

Hum, Not sure about Ron Paul being a Christian.. DIdnt he help Romney get Herman Cain Kicked out of the running over phony Sex charges?

Was that the source of that story? That is the first time I heard Ron Paul(and Romney for that matter) involved in that travesty back in November 2011.

I don't know how phony those charges are or aren't, but there's an old saying, "where there's smoke there's usually fire." And there was ALOT of smoke around Herman Cain.

And as far as Ron Pauls faith:

http://www.ronpaul2012.com/the-issues/s ... -of-faith/

Statement of Faith


“I have accepted Jesus Christ as my personal Savior, and I endeavor every day to follow Him in all I do and in every position I advocate.”

-Ron Paul

My faith is a deeply private issue to me, and I don’t speak on it in great detail during my speeches because I want to avoid any appearance of exploiting it for political gain. Let me be very clear here: I have accepted Jesus Christ as my personal Savior, and I endeavor every day to follow Him in all I do and in every position I advocate.

It is God Who gave us life. As He is free, so are those He created in His image. Our rights to life and liberty are inalienable.

I’m running for President of the United States because I believe that our traditions and way of life are under attack from an out-of-control federal government and reckless politicians who show no regard for what our Founders entrusted to our protection.

America became the greatest nation in human history because a dedicated band of Patriots believed their God-given rights were worth fighting for, even if it meant challenging the world’s most powerful nation in what many deemed a “hopeless” cause.

Being free meant so much to our forefathers that they put everything on the line – and thousands sacrificed their lives – to give the promise of liberty to not only their children and grandchildren, but to generations they knew they would never even meet.

Their courage and determination guaranteed they would defy the odds and achieve victory.

In this critical election, you and I must decide if the principles of limited government and personal freedom are worth fighting for once again.

Since I’m asking for your vote and your trust to lead this nation, let me tell you a little bit about my background and beliefs.

My parents raised my four brothers and me on a dairy near Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, where they set clear examples for each of us about faith, honest living, and individual responsibility. Their Christian values helped inspire two of my brothers to eventually enter the ministry, and provided me with the foundation I needed to practice medicine and one day become a U.S. Representative.

In addition to my time in Congress, I am proud to have delivered over 4,000 babies as a country doctor in Texas. As I trained to practice medicine, I became convinced without a doubt that life begins at the moment of conception. I never performed an abortion, and I never once found an abortion necessary to save the life of the mother. In fact, I successfully helped women struggling with their pregnancies to seek other options, including adoption.

I am running to Restore America Now, and by that I mean that it’s time to protect and promote the basic God-given rights inherent in the promise of America.

We must pass on our heritage of liberty to the next generation – not tens of trillions of dollars in debt and liabilities.

We must stand for life – not allow millions of innocent children to continue to be slaughtered with the government’s approval.

We must follow the Biblical mandate of using honest weights and measures – not printing money out of thin air in almost complete secrecy and then handing it over to oppressive dictators.

We must only send our men and women to fight for our country when the mission is clear, every necessary tool needed to win is provided, and we respect the Constitution by declaring war.

Once war is declared, it must be waged according to Just War principles. We should only fight when it’s in our national security interest, and we should no longer do the corrupt United Nation’s bidding by policing the world.

In Congress, I never vote for any piece of legislation that violates the Constitution’s strict limits on government power. I also do not participate in the congressional pension system.

As President, I give you my word that I will only exercise my authority within the confines of the Constitution, and I will work every day to rein in a runaway federal government by binding it with the chains of that document.

For my stands and beliefs, I am told that my efforts are “hopeless.” Like those who were proud to stand up for what they knew was right to create our nation, however, I firmly believe that now is a better time than ever before to reclaim our liberties. No situation is hopeless for those who receive their strength from their faith, family, and freedom.

And like those Patriots, I have no doubt that liberty will prevail.

I invite you to join me and millions of other Americans in taking our stand to honor our forefathers’ sacrifices and Restore America Now.


For Liberty,

Ron Paul

In my humble opinion, if you want to stop the murder of millions of unborn children, if you're truly serious about it, you get a man in the White House who actually has the legitimate background, qualifications and convictions to speak on the subject. If you want a man with true Christian values, look no further than Dr. Ron Paul.

[mrgravyard49]

Ok, I guess he is a Christian.. But as far as him winning? He is looked at by Americans as a nut..
So we only have the 2 choices.. And I dont want a Muslim as a President..

[denise]

Ok, I guess he is a Christian.. But as far as him winning? He is looked at by Americans as a nut..
So we only have the 2 choices.. And I dont want a Muslim as a President..

I don't want a Muslim for President either, but I sure as heck also don't want a Mormon. And it's not about Ron Paul winning, it's never been about him winning, it's about the message: Liberty, limited government, sound money, following the rule of law and a sane foriegn policy. If all Ron Paul accomplishes is help awaken people from their apathy and enthuse the next generation to care about the Constitution and to get involved, then he's won. I mean, really, WHO ELSE on the "right" has electified the youth? You NEED the youth to win in modern politics! Hello, Obama 20008!

And to amend really quickly, alot of people want to deny this, but Ron Paul STARTED the Tea Party. That's a FACT.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bNiDx7qTjA

[mrgravyard49]

Well, in truth it really doesnt matter. God is in charge and it looks like His Endtimes is here..Just look at the world economy the ME and how America has turned her back on God. In my mind, America is Done... Game Over..
Im just waiting on the Rapture...

[denise]

Well, in truth it really doesnt matter. God is in charge and it looks like His Endtimes is here..Just look at the world economy the ME and how America has turned her back on God. In my mind, America is Done... Game Over..
Im just waiting on the Rapture...

It doesn't matter? I'm sorry, but I have to respectfully disagree. Even if we are living in the endtimes, I believe we can't just sit on our laurels and "wait on the Rapture." I personally think that's the wrong attitude, "just waiting on the Rapture." I don't know about you, but I have a family, a mother that's a widow and I believe I have a Biblical obligation to make sure that while I'm still on this Earth I do everything possible to ensure their well being...

But if anyone does not provide for his relatives, and especially for members of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever. 1 Timothy 5:8

I know God provides, but I also think he wants us to use every opportunity we've got, even in evil times:

making the most of your time, because the days are evil. Ephesian 5:16

So when you say, that because "America is done",does that automatically means the Rapture is about to take place? I sure hope you're right, but if you're wrong, are all of us grounded in the Word of God and Faith enough to endure what the poor Christians in Egypt are going through right now? Being crucified? Their tribulation is happening NOW. What if that comes here and you're saying, "Why didn't the Rapture happen yet?" Or, "When is it going to happen?" I''m not as concerned about this "rapture", I am more concerned about the RESURRECTION. Love in Christ.

As far as the election, there's no man on earth that can save America, I agree, spiritually this country is on life support. But my concience tells me, that even though the two major parties have put a Muslim/Marxist and a Mormon as the two options, it doesn't mean that I have to capitulate. My vote in November isn't to elect the next POTUS, necessarily, but to make my voice heard and keep my hands clean. I think that EVERY generation has it's moment to choose, and God will know who you cast your vote for when you pull that curtain closed. IF, and that's a BIG IF, if there is an alternative to the two canidates and he's a God fearing man, I have to vote for him.

Whatever you do, work at it with all your heart, as working for the Lord, not for men. Col. 3:23

[GodsStudent]

hmmm.....when we discussed Ron Paul in the 2012 election section, there were a lot of comments posted, and links, I think, that sort of suggested he was not a good candidate.

viewtopic.php?f=71&t=62205

I started the thread and titled it "Ron Paul....why don't we love this guy?"

Here's a link. Any responses to the things discussed about Paul in that thread, since this one seems to be implicating Paul as a solid christian that we can vote for and feel good about in the coming election?

[denise]

There is NEVER going to be the perfect canidate Godstudent. Not even (GASP) Reagan. And while I don't agree 100% with Paul on everything, (Gay marriage issue) I do think we could do alot worse, such as the two canidates running now. Tell me, is wanting to push for:

"Immediately saving lives by effectively repealing Roe v. Wade and preventing activist judges from interfering with state decisions on life by removing abortion from federal court jurisdiction through legislation modeled after his “We the People Act.” and "Defining life as beginning at conception by passing a “Sanctity of Life Act.” A bag thing?

Which is Dr. Paul's platform. Is that less important that defending Israel? Which, might I ask is more important? Do you think God cares any less for the shed blood of the innocent unborn than a nation that has AMPLE capability to defend itself (Israel). Do you think God is going to all of a sudden say, "Gee, America (as a whole, the GOP really hasn't made a real effort at overturning RoeVWade in my lifetime) has turned a blind eye to sacrificing it's babies to the god of convenience for forty years, but because they're willing to be trigger happy for a people I'm MORE THAN ABLE to defend,(And will, see Ezekiel 38)) I'm just going to make sure that all the economic, and political turmoil festering will disapear." I don't think so.

When God says, "I will bless those who bless my people, and curse those who curse my people." What does that mean? Because it looks like to me that America is being cursed. All I read on that other thread is, "Paul's a quake, nut and a conspiricy theorist." Which, if anyone came here and didn't know any better, could be said for us here.

I'm not happy with the choices we're presented with, either, and I know that Paul has a snowballs chance of getting the nomination, but again, it's the principle of the "Ron Paul Revolution", of "We the People" thats important. And I don't think Romney AT ALL encapulates the Tea Party spirit. It seems to me, that EVERY ONE of the canidates were running as the NOT ROMNEY canidate, but still we got him. Why is that? Because there really is very little difference between Obama and Romney. Just window dressing. And that's why things have gone from bad to worse.

There really isn't a third option. Gary Johnson? No. So, what do you do? I guess you hold your nose and vote for the one who flipped back to "Pro Life" after flopping from "Pro choice": McRomey, and see Obama get a second term: because hey, Romney's the 1%, remember?

Sigh, enough ranting.

Love in Christ.

[GodsStudent]

Love in Christ to you also, Denise.

Hey....I was all about Ron Paul during the republican primaries. Now...Im not all about any of them. I understand what you're saying in your, as you call it, "rant" , but I guess for me, I just got to a place where I concluded that there really aren't any viable MEN to vote for, and this is why the country (and the rest of the countries in the world) are in the predicament they're in.

Our country was founded by men who wanted to be free to worship the Lord freely. They went to great strides to write the Constitution and establish a free democracy....but in this day and time, the Constitution and the people it was meant to protect and serve are both being trampled underfoot.

It doesn't surprise me that we are in the end time and not having a choice for a MAN to vote for. We wrestle not against flesh and blood.....it's the spirit of the MEN in power and who they surrender their spirit to.......The entire election process, IMO, is a farce, and has been for some time. Of course, this will trample all over the egos of the patriots....but I guess I am too much more versed in what the end time scenario is about, who will rise to power, what the man of LAWLESSNESS will be like and about.....kind of hard for me to miss this playing out all around me at this point, and in the people in powerful places. I don't surrender to it....I submit to the patience and faith of the saints as described in Revelation 13 and 14.....I've stopped looking for a man who is going to turn this thing around....that's what the heathens are doing.

So....I guess we have different "rants." Not just you and I.....I see many people who love the Lord who still seem to be trying to reconcile in their minds whom it is they might can vote for to make a difference, and I can't help but wonder in my mind how they can reconcile all nations standing against Israel and somehow conclude that the US won't be among them. Somebody tell me how 50% of Americans are still (according to the polls) in favor of President Obama after all that has gone on with him. Then for the other 50% ....what is their motivation????? Do they want that seemingly prosperous life and lifestyle Americans were once familiar with? How do they suppose we are going to acquire something like that in the face of everything real going on around us?

It's time to look far beyond the election and into much more pressing realities. Just my opinion.

For clarification, my post is not, in any way, shape or form, directed at Denise....I am just responding from my own perspective to the discussion going on. I was pro Ron Paul until I broadened my horizons....now.....I honestly believe that nomatter who I vote for, or who is elected....the bigger picture will continue to unfold, and the US, as well as all other nations on this planet, are in for the worst time this world has ever seen.....and no president will have the power, and per scripture, the desire, to do the right thing.

Rev 17: 17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfill his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.

For that matter, that 50% is going to grow to worship the spirit of wickedness:

Rev 13: 8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

I don't know. Please don't get me wrong.....I don't want to see these things happen, but "when you see these things begin to happen".....I'm seeing them. I don't see any form of revival and turning back to the Lord, and if Ron Paul is supposed to be our greatest option, please tell me how he is going to help? Please see the following, per the post above concerning his "statement of faith"......

My faith is a deeply private issue to me, and I don’t speak on it in great detail during my speeches because I want to avoid any appearance of exploiting it for political gain.

Im sorry....he's going to lead us anywhere? I don't think so. Please forgive me abruptness, but I guess I am getting tired of my own "rant" here.

[GodsStudent]

deeply private? Please Dr. Paul.....what is our great commission as Christians?

If you truly are devoted to the Lord and

If you don't speak, from a position where you could be speaking up......
if you don't lead, from a position where you could be leading......

it's just not meant to be.

IMO

[denise]

but I guess for me, I just got to a place where I concluded that there really aren't any viable MEN to vote for, and this is why the country (and the rest of the countries in the world) are in the predicament they're in.

Our country was founded by men who wanted to be free to worship the Lord freely. They went to great strides to write the Constitution and establish a free democracy....but in this day and time, the Constitution and the people it was meant to protect and serve are both being trampled underfoot.

It doesn't surprise me that we are in the end time and not having a choice for a MAN to vote for. We wrestle not against flesh and blood.....it's the spirit of the MEN in power and who they surrender their spirit to.......The entire election process, IMO, is a farce, and has been for some time. Of course, this will trample all over the egos of the patriots....but I guess I am too much more versed in what the end time scenario is about, who will rise to power, what the man of LAWLESSNESS will be like and about.....kind of hard for me to miss this playing out all around me at this point, and in the people in powerful places. I don't surrender to it....I submit to the patience and faith of the saints as described in Revelation 13 and 14.....I've stopped looking for a man who is going to turn this thing around....that's what the heathens are doing.

I agree with you 100% on that Godstudent. It's very disheartening. I consider myself a "Patriot", and have for quite sometime. I miss the days of "God bless America" being sung and feeling proud about my country. I have MANY ancestors who fought for this country and have a sense of obligation to their memory and sacrifices, you know?

One of my FAVORITE movies of all time is "Mr. Smith Goes to Washington", staring James Stewart, and it SO RINGS TRUE today.

We'll agree to disagree about Ron Paul, as far as his "lack of public use of his faith", I personally see it as refreshing, because I get tired of the "Faith card" being whipped out to curry favor with the "church going" constituents. It's all fake. I'd rather someone "walk the walk", than "talk the talk". But that's just me.

[ThomasDGW]

I heard a shocker once: When Hitler ran for chancellor, 80% of the Christians in Germany voted for him. If you voted for Bush to keep from getting McCain, then again for Bush to keep from getting Gore, then for Bush to keep from getting Kerry, then voted for Huckabee to keep from getting McCain, then for McCain to keep from getting Obama, then for Paul to keep from getting Romney, then you will vote for Romney to keep from getting Obama again, uhh, might you eventually vote for Obama to keep from getting another Hitler, or even worse, might you vote for another Hitler to keep from getting another Stalin? I asked myself a question like this, back around 1991, and decided then that I would never knowingly vote for evil again, even lesser evil. That decision has meant that I never voted for any candidate on the ballot again. Mike Huckabee even failed my test, although I kind of like the guy, because I saw him waffle on his stand against evolution, and because he played "Free Bird" with his band and said it tells how we all should live. That and a couple other things told me this man, hopefully saved, has poor judgment. I kind of like Ron Paul, too, but a man who takes a neutral stand with Israel and the Muslim neighbors who lust to destroy her, and puts the U.S. constitution above God's word, is not on the right track.

The next step I took was to recognize that God is in control, and that it is not my responsibility to worry about what will happen if Obama gets in or if Stalin gets in. My responsibility is to stand for what is right, regardless what I might be blackmailed with ("Vote for this man or you'll get ..."). I got helped on this step when I watched the mayor race in Portland, Oregon between Frank Ivancie, the "conservative family man", and Bud Clark, the "desolute bar owner". Bud Clark won, after which Frank immediately divorced his wife and went off with another woman to another state, and the next thing I heard of Bud Clark was when he stopped by a group of Christians reaching out to homeless people and offered them city property to work from. So, that helped me to realize that we do not know what will happen, that God gives a people the leaders they deserve, that I can just rest my concerns on that, and that I no longer have to agonize and "hold my nose" to vote for the lesser evil.

[denise]

Oh my...

Looks like we may have a brokered convention after all...

http://palinquakes.com/yahoo_site_admin ... 115707.pdf

Essentially this says "a weak and distrusted Romney cannot win..." They're citing Rule 38 - and asking to nominate Palin on the first ballot.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/23/politics/ ... ?hpt=hp_c1

During a recent Fox News interview, Palin suggested "maybe it is a third-party run of Sarah Steelman that I can get behind."

Palin is scarcely twiddling her thumbs while sitting on the sidelines. Her endorsements of congressional candidates have built an army of supporters inside the Beltway.

"If Romney loses by a big margin there will be a move by center-leaning Republicans to recapture dominance," Ornstein said. "But you're not going to see a lot of conservatives saying 'we were wrong about this.' You're going to have another chapter in this ongoing struggle. There will be a vacuum, Sarah could fill that vacuum."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFruN-PD ... e=youtu.be

Sarah Palin: You Better Listen to Ron Paul

[denise]

So, that helped me to realize that we do not know what will happen, that God gives a people the leaders they deserve, that I can just rest my concerns on that, and that I no longer have to agonize and "hold my nose" to vote for the lesser evil.

I really like what you have to say.

[Jericho]

I heard a shocker once: When Hitler ran for chancellor, 80% of the Christians in Germany voted for him.

It's shocking to us because we have hindsight. Hitler started off as a baby kissing, hand-shaking politician. I'm sure there were red flags even then but I doubt many realized what they were in for.

[mrgravyard49]

Well, Yes none of the people to vote for are perfect. I compare them ALL to Ron Reagan. That Man LOVED God and ofcourse LOVED America. I see this country sliding downhill since he left office.. Sorry but I Still think unless he comes back to life and saves America, America is done.. Oh How I wish I was wrong but Loved Ones, LOOK at what is going on.. As in the days of Noah.

[Sword of Geddon]

Hitler already had written mein kampf by the time he ran for chancellor. He ran during a time when Germany was stilling suffering from their defeat in World War One, when many were poor and the motto of the times were "Eat, Drink and be Merry for tommorow we die". Hitler ran on German patriotism, and gave many who were on the verge of despair hope by promising to restore Germany.

Hitler was not someone like Obama who from the beginning said America and the Constitution were fundamentally flawed, no, rather Hitler promised to RESTORE Germany, to make the country strong again.

When Hitler entered office he did just that. He reorganized the nation, creating a german automobile industry which put people back to work. He rebuilt the military into the strongest in Western Europe. Nobody at first thought Hitler would be a monster, rather he was quite popular. His popularity, from his speeches and what he accomplished created a cult around him. It was then I believe when Hitler began his agenda. First with the mentally ill and mentally handicap, then everything else came after.

Obama did have a cult like following in the beginning, if you recall there was alot of new age activity around him back in 2008. Teachers had children sing his praises, and Obama himself made cryptic statements(You will know me by who I surround myself with, A light will shine threw your window and You will have an epiphany).

(e·piph·a·ny
[ i píffənee ]

1. sudden realization: a sudden intuitive leap of understanding, especially through an ordinary but striking occurrence
2. appearance of god: the supposed manifestation of a divine being

Also like Hitler, Obama made his world debut(recall El Gallo said this back in the day) in front of the Temple of Pergamon, the very same temple built by Antiochus IV Epiphanes(whose name means god manufest), the very man who placed a statue of Zeus in the Temple in Israel.

It seems to me like Obama's magic is gone, like whatever dark force was giving him his cult-like hold on people is no longer there. I don't know what this means. It could mean our adversary wanted Obama in, even if its only for one term.

The question then is...Why? Is Obama the antichrist spoken of in the Bible? Or is that person to come.

I've often had a feeling, that we should be careful when kicking Obama out of office, that we get the Antichrist in his place. I don't think Romney is that person though, for one thing, the Antichrist "Does not follow the god of his fathers, but follows a strange god, a god of forces, and honors him wherever he goes", and "Declares himself above all gods and all that is worshiped, even the God of gods(Jehovah).

If Obama is the A/C, we won't know for sure until he is "revealed" to the world.

[Jericho]

The question then is...Why? Is Obama the antichrist spoken of in the Bible? Or is that person to come.

I imagine that the AC will be a genius, he's able to get the world out of it's economic mess. He wins every military campaign. As Revelation asks who can make war with the Beast? This suggests someone with a superior intellect. He would have to be for the world to marvel after him. The thing about Obama is he's not particularity bright. Everything indicates he was a sub-par student who spent his past time doing recreational drugs, which is probably the reason his school records are sealed. Without his teleprompter he stumbles and stammers. He hasn't achieved much on his own merits, he's had alot of help getting into prestigious schools and political positions. So in his now infamous "You didn't build that" speech where he says "If you've been successful you didn't get there own your own" he's speaking from experience, everything has been done for him. The point I'm making is I don't think he's AC material. He may have the spirit of the AC but that's it. The fact that his luster from 2008 is starting to fade is just another indication to me of this.

[denise]

Well, Yes none of the people to vote for are perfect. I compare them ALL to Ron Reagan. That Man LOVED God and ofcourse LOVED America. I see this country sliding downhill since he left office.. Sorry but I Still think unless he comes back to life and saves America, America is done.. Oh How I wish I was wrong but Loved Ones, LOOK at what is going on.. As in the days of Noah.

Sorry, but I have to disagree with you on a couple of points. But before I do, let me explain, I was in grade school in the eighties and LOVED Reagan as well, and still consider him the greatest president in my lifetime. BUT, to say "this country sliding downhill since he left office," is not really accurate, imho. Roe v Wade ocurred in 1971 and I don't remember Reagan making any big push in his eight years to reverse that. I also know that one of his promises in 1980 was to reverse the recently created Department of Education, which he didn't; and look how horrible our education system has declined since then. Also, I don't wish for Reagan to "come back to life and save America", I want CHRIST who IS ALIVE to come back and RULE as the KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.

Love in Christ.

[Sword of Geddon]

The question then is...Why? Is Obama the antichrist spoken of in the Bible? Or is that person to come.

I imagine that the AC will be a genius, he's able to get the world out of it's economic mess. He wins every military campaign. As Revelation asks who can make war with the Beast? This suggests someone with a superior intellect. He would have to be for the world to marvel after him. The thing about Obama is he's not particularity bright. Everything indicates he was a sub-par student who spent his past time doing recreational drugs, which is probably the reason his school records are sealed. Without his teleprompter he stumbles and stammers. He hasn't achieved much on his own merits, he's had alot of help getting into prestigious schools and political positions. So in his now infamous "You didn't build that" speech where he says "If you've been successful you didn't get there own your own" he's speaking from experience, everything has been done for him. The point I'm making is I don't think he's AC material. He may have the spirit of the AC but that's it. The fact that his luster from 2008 is starting to fade is just another indication to me of this.

I think your right..lets recap things though:

The A/C will:

-Abandon the faith of his father and forefathers in favor of a "god of forces"
-Declare himself above all that is called god and is worshiped
-Be a military genius, much like Alexander the Great, "Who can make war with him?"
-Be a stern-faced king.
-Be ruler of "the North"
-Be so charismatic and convincing in his speech that he deceives even believers(the elect) if possible.
-Get his power and authority from the devil himself.
-Possibly has Assyrian ancestry.
-Pretend to like Israel and have a treaty with them.

Is there any world leader that possesses all of these qualities?

[Jericho]

I think your right..lets recap things though:

The A/C will:

-Abandon the faith of his father and forefathers in favor of a "god of forces"
-Declare himself above all that is called god and is worshiped
-Be a military genius, much like Alexander the Great, "Who can make war with him?"
-Be a stern-faced king.
-Be ruler of "the North"
-Be so charismatic and convincing in his speech that he deceives even believers(the elect) if possible.
-Get his power and authority from the devil himself.
-Possibly has Assyrian ancestry.
-Pretend to like Israel and have a treaty with them.

Is there any world leader that possesses all of these qualities?

Not yet. I agree Obama posses "some" of those qualities, but not all. He's certainly no military or economic genius. If you remember in 2008 Obama was a virtual unknown and then suddenly he became president. I imagine that is how it will be with the A/C as well. He may be out there right now keeping a low profile until the time is right.

Sorry, but I have to disagree with you on a couple of points. But before I do, let me explain, I was in grade school in the eighties and LOVED Reagan as well, and still consider him the greatest president in my lifetime. BUT, to say "this country sliding downhill since he left office," is not really accurate, imho. Roe v Wade ocurred in 1971 and I don't remember Reagan making any big push in his eight years to reverse that. I also know that one of his promises in 1980 was to reverse the recently created Department of Education, which he didn't; and look how horrible our education system has declined since then. Also, I don't wish for Reagan to "come back to life and save America", I want CHRIST who IS ALIVE to come back and RULE as the KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.

Love in Christ.

Yup, Reagan wasn't perfect (who is?) but he's one of the few modern president's who was not a member of the Council on Foreign Relations. He was also the last true conservative president who loved America and loved freedom. I don't know how hard it would have been to appeal Roe v Wade. I imagine there would be alot of opposition and unfortunately you have to compromise in Washington to get anywhere, sad but that's just the way it works. I'm sure if Ron Paul were president he would make his fair share of mistakes and have to compromise too. In any case I also would rather have Christ ruling and reigning.

[denise]

Jerico Said:

I'm sure if Ron Paul were president he would make his fair share of mistakes and have to compromise too.

Oh I'm sure he would too, definately. The funny thing about Ron Paul and Ronald Reagan though, is that Paul was one of his earliest supporters when he ran for president the first time in 1976. Back in the day, Paul and Reagan were actually ideologically on the same page, both being Barry Goldwater men. And Reagan DEFINATELY believed in the Libertarian principle:

If you analyze it I believe the very heart and soul of conservatism is libertarianism. I think conservatism is really a misnomer just as liberalism is a misnomer for the liberals -- if we were back in the days of the Revolution, so-called conservatives today would be the Liberals and the liberals would be the Tories. The basis of conservatism is a desire for less government interference or less centralized authority or more individual freedom and this is a pretty general description also of what libertarianism is.

RONALD REAGAN, Reason Magazine, Jul. 1, 1975

http://www.notable-quotes.com/r/reagan_ronald.html

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-atSEzZywq2U/T ... n_1976.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-OpDhUQ9xxD4/T ... agan_1.jpg

http://p.twimg.com/Aj4YGRyCIAE3EzF.jpg:large

http://www.thenorthwestreport.com/wp-co ... _quote.jpg

It was Reagan and the GOP that moved away from what Reagan stood for, not Ron Paul, that caused the split in 1987:

"Ronald Reagan and the Republican Party have given us skyrocketing deficits, and astoundingly a doubled national debt. How is it that the party of balanced budgets, with control of the White House and Senate, accumulated red ink greater than all previous administrations put together?

…There is no credibility left for the Republican Party as a force to reduce the size of government. That is the message of the Reagan years."

Here is the letter in full:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2819919/posts

Which brings us today with trillions upon TRILLIONS of dollars of debt. I'm not AT ALL saying it's all Republicans fault, it's EVERYONE'S fault.

[Sword of Geddon]

Well the big problems facing the next president will be of coarse Islamo Fascists, and the dept.

The good news is that the tea party is taking over the Republican Party, and this election will likely be the last hurrah for the non-conservative Republicans.

And there are plenty reasons I wouldn't vote for Ron Paul:

-He voted for the repeal of don't ask don't tell
-He attracts anti-semetics
-His foreign policy views are naive, he refuses to see the threat of radical islam
-He himself has called "Israel more trouble than its worth" and called for more support of the Palestinians.
-He puts the constitution before Christ

Granted Mitt Romney is far from perfect, but on Israel and foreign policy he is right. Romney has the best chance of defeating Obama, that is a fact. He was not my first choice either, but its either him, or four more years of O. Its either swallow a bitter pill to get better, or drink the poison and die. The choice really is that simple.

[Sword of Geddon]

If the cult-like behavior of Ron Paul's supporters is not a clear give-a-way to the nature of this man, then perhaps this will help set the record straight that Ron Paul isn't someone any Conservative and especially Christian should even consider voting for:

Ron Paul Busted Lying, Stuffing Pork (money) into bills that he knows will pass, but then he votes "NO" on them to look good, - Who would be this deceitful?
Ron Paul Would Stop aid to Israel:
Ron Paul would NOT help Israel if they needed help:
Ron Paul Opposes House Resolution Supporting Israel's Attack on Gaza. Which Recognizes "Israel's right to defend itself against attacks from Gaza" and supports a peace agreement...
Ron Paul endorses Anti-Israeli Cynthia McKinney who accused Israel of genocide and more...
Ron Paul condones, Legalizing Heroin, Pot, etc. (Illegal Drugs), Prostitution, Gay Marriage:
Ron Paul would also Release "ALL" prisoners with drug charges/ non-violent:
Ron Paul Took $1 Million dollars in donations from Russia Communist News Network RT TV:
Code Pink endorses Ron Paul:
Ron Paul endorsed Cynthia McKinney!! who is a Solid anti-Israeli:
Ron Paul send a letter Criticizing Reagan in 1987 in which he states he quits the GOP... BUT!... then he Runs in the GOP Primary...?

[denise]

I'm not going to debate all of these points you've brought up, some valid, I admit, some not, in my opinion.

I'm tired of this subject and for the sake of Christian fellowship, I concede.


I don't care, because I've already stated I know he's not going to get the nomination and that most people I know, even at my church are choosing to stick their heads in the sand and vote for a man whose a member of a CULT and who is a HERETIC. That's okay. The GOP has made it's decision. And we're all going to have to live with the consequences of that, whatever it is.

BUT, on three points I'd like to say something:

He attracts anti-semetics

I am NOT an anti-semite, and I am a supporter of Ron Paul.

Ron Paul Would Stop aid to Israel:
Ron Paul would NOT help Israel if they needed help:
Ron Paul Opposes House Resolution Supporting Israel's Attack on Gaza. Which Recognizes "Israel's right to defend itself against attacks from Gaza" and supports a peace agreement...

Okay, so I've been on this board for over six years, and I'm quite informed like everyone else here on the subject we all follow and I'm looking for a seven year peace deal like everyone else, but come on, the man can't be for peace between these people, without being labeled the enemy or something?

Didn't Jesus say, Blessed are the peace makers?

Besides, you're misrepresenting Dr. Paul's position, a positition Benjamin Netanyahu takes.
Please watch this short two minute video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wy_HVTyY ... re=related



And I just don't understand this accusation:

He puts the constitution before Christ

This is the craziest charge I've ever heard. Is the man not supposed to take his oath of office seriously? I mean really, what do you mean by this? We do have the RULE OF LAW and aren't we, as Christians supposed to obey the law of the land, except when it contradicts God's Law? But my understanding, and those of Wallbuilders and many, MANY Christian historians, is that our founding documents and legal system are based in Judeo Christianity, aren't they?


Love in Christ.



***


I HAVE to amend this, I did forget this one comment that got me:

If the cult-like behavior of Ron Paul's supporters is not a clear give-a-way to the nature of this man

What the...? Can people not be passionate about their canidate?

Not to be disrespectful, but just making a point, Godstudent said earlier, I believe in this post, that "I wish Reagan came back to life to save America", that could be construed as "cultish" behavior by some people. (not really,Godstudent ) I loved Ronald Reagan just as much as the next person and WEPT when he died.

You want to talk about cult like behavior, how about the way we deify Washington or Lincoln in this country?

As far as "the nature of this man". Ron Paul is a father, Grandfather, Greatgrandfater, a veteran (and major advocate for veterans rights) and a doctor who has PERSONALLY delivered over 2,000 babies and is ADAMENTLY PRO LIFE.

[JohnE]

Good post Denise. Those were the same "points" that were bothering me in most of the earlier discussions about Ron Paul, including GS's thread asking "why don't we like this guy?", or something similar to that. I honestly do not understand why all believers are not supporting him, except for getting fed the rhetoric repeatedly. As many here have said already, it is in GOD's control. As for me, I WILL vote my conscience again.

I think I'll go back under my rock here regarding politics.

[jgilberAZ]

Exactly ... vote your conscience.

I will not have to stand before God and explain why I voted for a Mormon ... one who believe Satan and Jesus are spirit brothers who came into being through sex between mother and father God.


I will vote for who I can support with a clear conscience ... regardless of the likelihood of them getting elected.

http://constitutionparty.org/news.php?aid=65

The moral imperative says we should not cast a vote for a candidate who does not represent our beliefs. We will not see a change in the status quo as long as Americans continue to believe they’re "wasting" their votes by voting for someone who represents them.

Many "wasted’ their vote the last time, when they voted for Bush and then McCain. Remember, if we continue to repeat the same behavior expecting different results, then we are truly insane.

And the lesser of two evils is still…evil.

http://constitutionparty.org/news.php?aid=917

“How long do you think it will take to get the kind of government you believe in, so long as you keep voting for people who won’t support your views?”

(snip)

Third party voters are discerning voters. They vote their convictions. They weigh the deeds of those competing for their vote rather than merely listening to their words. They understand that their vote is the currency of their political virtue and spend it wisely. They hold to the principle that “duty is mine; the results are in the hand of God.”

Check these out:

Compare the Candidates

Goode/Clymer on the Issues

[GodsStudent]

You all make good points, and I appreciate hearing them. As for the thread I opened asking why we don't love Ron Paul, I was, at times, impressed with his debates, and wondering what others said and had to say about him. I have to admit I was influenced by the discussion that took place in that thread.

For now, I keep telling myself it's impractical to write in "Jesus Christ," on the ballot, but in all honesty, from where I sit, only Christ could take the political system around. The mess has already been made. IF we even get to election day, I hope I've made my mind up on feeling good about voting for anyone, because now, I am in the position of struggling to vote on what I believe to be the lesser of two evils, and my primary emotion is to not cast a vote in order to state my opinion.

Ron Paul's lack of enthusiasm for Israel is a real issue for me.