Coming out of the Post-Trib Closet

No opposing arguments allowed

Postby grace2all on Fri Jul 28, 2006 2:05 pm

Image to the board 1956Ford! Glad to see you here at FP!

Aloha,
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Postby Abiding in His Word on Fri Jul 28, 2006 3:10 pm

1956Ford

:wavewelcome: to the FP board! Happy to have you with us!
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Postby 1956Ford on Fri Jul 28, 2006 4:05 pm

Abiding in His Word wrote:1956Ford

:wavewelcome: to the FP board! Happy to have you with us!


Thank you Grace & Abiding,
I am glad to be here. I enjoy prophecy. I found this board while doing a search on Constance Cumbey. I heard her interview with Irvin Baxter on Politics and Religion.
I think Constance and Herb are so well informed. I really enjoy listening to Constance.
It's nice to be among post tribbers. They are in the minority in the churches that I have attended.
I think it is because people do so little study on their own and just believe everything their pastor and denomination teaches.
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Postby Salty Skipper on Fri Jul 28, 2006 4:07 pm

Hey 1956Ford...Love your name :wink:

Welcome to FP!!!!!!!!!

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Postby OBXBob on Sat Jul 29, 2006 9:46 am

:wavewelcome: 1956Ford!

It's good to have you on the board!

Blessings,

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Postby ChrisJ on Tue Aug 01, 2006 12:34 pm

Hello everybody (you too, Beeps! LOL LOVE your name!),

What a ride. I have gotten emails from pastors calling me "dummy" and telling me that I can't read simple English, etc. It's been emotionally rough at times (and tough on my pride), but I have tried to keep the emotion out of it and respond to each of their 'reasons' with simple biblical logic. Some are still emailing me back to re-correct me, but that's okay. As long as there is dialogue, something that I write might stick. Amen?

The Lord has been very good to us! When our 'fridge quit working, the Lord had our new Pastor mention at the end of his message that the church's daycare had to be emptied out, "and if anyone wants a refrigerator, etc." LOL That was awesome!

Plus we have gotten unexpected $$ in the mail. A $250 check and a $545 check! Isn't God just the most generous? He knows, and he has conduits out there that we don't even know about! Not to mention Becky having about 5 cavities healed! (She asked me to anoint her with oil since nobody we know believes in 'that stuff' anymore. I do, so I anointed her and the Lord healed them all.)

And, at our new church, our group's Sunday School teacher stepped down...and the Pastor let me have the class. LOL I am sooooo blessed! (Somebody stop me before I bust!)


Thank you for all of your prayers and encouragment!

ChrisJ
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Postby beeps on Thu Aug 03, 2006 4:36 am

I really wish I could find a decent church in my city in the UK. Its awash with churches but hardly any of them teach expositionaly its usually three verses and anicdotes.

This country is up the proverbial creek and our politicians are pushing our primeminister really hard to jump ship on the isreal issue and side with the eu and cut ties with america. :cry:

I dont go to any church as they are all so wishy washey
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Postby OBXBob on Thu Aug 03, 2006 7:38 am

Hello beeps,

Sadly, this is the norm in the U.S., as well...

Blessings,

Bob
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Postby beeps on Thu Aug 03, 2006 9:10 am

:twoheadbang: :twoheadbang:
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Postby Rick on Sat Aug 19, 2006 9:57 am

I grew up Baptist and Pre-Trib, but it always bothered me that I never saw a “definitive” passage of Scripture that taught Pre-Trib – even tho there are many scriptures that teach just the opposite.

But, to be honest, the thought of the consequences of Post-Trib were so horrifying, I guess I was “willfully ignorant.”

But the End Times are so obvious that I spent a lot of time studying Prophesy, mostly in the Old Testament. And I asked God to reveal it all to me – come what may. One day I opened my Bible and this verse leaped from the page:

“Call unto me, and I will answer thee, and shew thee great and mighty things, which thou knowest not.” – Jer. 33:3

(BTW, according to Satanic numerology, 333 is very “Anti-Christ.” If you see Jeremiah as the 2nd book of prophesy, 2 X 333 = 666. This jumped out at me too. I understood this to mean that God would reveal things about the End that I had not previously understood – which is what I was asking for.)

I took Him at His Word, and determined to believe the Bible for what it said, and do my best to filter out the teachings of men.

What God showed from that point is that Pre-Trib is a lie, deliberately designed to neutralize the Church.

But there is more. Daniel 7:23 states that the last World Empire would Devour, Crush, and Trample the whole Earth – before the Anti-Christ even appears on the scene. The Kings of the Empire would then give their power to the Man of Sin. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to see this Empire already coming together.

This says to me that there will be a great deal of death, suffering, and persecution before the Mark is even instituted. Indeed, there are reports of US Military personnel stating that once the New World Order is in place, Christians will be taken to the camps and brutally raped and tortured, and then sacrificed to Satan in order to bring forth the Anti-Christ.

Bible Prophesy and Current Events are coming together.

Obviously, no one wants to hear this, and few Americans want to believe Nero / Nazi style torture would happen to them. It’s much more pleasant to cling to Total Escape. My old Paster just smiled and said he would be Raptured.

When I try to explain to Christians that persecution is coming to America, the response I get is basically, “not in my lifetime.” Actually, this came from a man with 6 children. If not during his life, when? – His children’s? (Now you know why I don’t have kids.)

Post-Trib is a Hard Sell, because weak, comfortable, fat Americans are too busy with pleasure to study Scripture on their own. The response I get is, “But my Pastor says…” -- yet the only Scripture they can come up with on their own is, “God hath not appointed us to wrath.” Everyone knows that one.

Christians don’t study the Bible -- they listen to Pastors. Pastors don’t study the Bible – they read Commentaries.

Do I sound frustrated, LOL?

:armor: "...and when he shall tread in our palaces, then shall we raise against him seven shepherds, and eight principal men." - Mic 5:5
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Postby Salty Skipper on Sat Aug 19, 2006 10:02 am

Christians don’t study the Bible -- they listen to Pastors. Pastors don’t study the Bible – they read Commentaries.


Rick, I think you just told the sad and scary truth. :(

By the way, :wavewelcome:

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Postby OBXBob on Sun Aug 20, 2006 10:12 am

:wavewelcome: Rick!

It's wonderful to have you join us, and we're looking forward to more of your posts!

Blessings,

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Postby AndCanItBe on Sun Aug 20, 2006 10:14 am

:wavewelcome: 1956Ford!

:wavewelcome: Rick!
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Postby Sozoed on Sun Aug 20, 2006 6:49 pm

Salty Skipper wrote:
Christians don’t study the Bible -- they listen to Pastors. Pastors don’t study the Bible – they read Commentaries.


Rick, I think you just told the sad and scary truth. :(

By the way, :wavewelcome:

Salty

I agree with Salty, Rick. You're right on...not too many Christians in the US want to hear that they're going to suffer persecution.

Here's a simplistic way that I can view things: Isn't it more realistic to prepare for the hardest endtime scenario, and have it not come to pass, (only out of God's mercy), then to NOT prepare while expecting deliverance, and experience the full brunt of the Trib.?

(This explanation obviously doesn't even scratch the surface of all the Scriptural references why we are going to be here through at least part of the Trib.)

This simplistic explanation may at least get 'died in the wool' pre-tribbers thinking.
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Postby Favoritetopic on Wed Aug 23, 2006 2:24 pm

wow...I'm shocked. I had no idea there were churches that disown people for a view on the rapture??? That sounds like legalism and maybe it's a good thing you'll be changing churches. Or if God is working on the hearts of others there maybe more members will change. I think in the last days we'll see more of that.

When my pastor talked about the rapture he came to the conclusion that he didn't know...LOL! He's funny.
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Postby Favoritetopic on Wed Aug 23, 2006 5:15 pm

ChrisJ...I just read your update on all of your recent blessings and healings - YES, GOD is GREAT! And He's obviously taking care of you!!! I guess these things break God's heart more than it breaks ours. As far as not being able to read English...what is so tough about 'no man knows the day or hour'? Seems pretty plain to me. SMILE!
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Postby JR on Wed Aug 23, 2006 6:46 pm

Rick wrote:This says to me that there will be a great deal of death, suffering, and persecution before the Mark is even instituted. Indeed, there are reports of US Military personnel stating that once the New World Order is in place, Christians will be taken to the camps and brutally raped and tortured, and then sacrificed to Satan in order to bring forth the Anti-Christ.


Rick,

Can you supply any backup for the above statement. I find that hard to believe. Just wanting things to be clear.

Now, if the antichrist is in charge, then I can believe it. If the radical muslims are in charge, ditto. But for US military to be planning that now, that seems hard to believe. The air force has recently been reprimanded for being to Christian. Just curious here.

Et, al,

Ok, I am not a post tribber, but I am more convinced of a mid-trib / pre-wrath position. I do believe I will see some persecution. In fact I have had a vision that confirms we are being persecuted. Nothing graphic, but an indication that our Christian identity can no longer be freely known.

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Postby Rick on Thu Aug 24, 2006 7:07 pm

Hi jjrear,

Not sure about the rules here, so I sent you the links in Private.
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Postby FreeInHim on Tue Aug 29, 2006 10:52 am

Rick wrote:Hi jjrear,

Not sure about the rules here, so I sent you the links in Private.


I wish you would post it on the thread. I'd be curious to see this, too, as I concur with JJ's assessment.
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Re: Coming out of the Post-Trib Closet

Postby 2ndComing on Wed Aug 30, 2006 7:36 pm

ChrisJ wrote:Hello Everybody!

Well, here it comes! My wife and I are coming out of the closet this month, and letting everyone know that we have left the illogical, unscriptural Pre-Trib Rapture position.

We are missionaries with a very conservative mission board. Our church is very conservative, "old time religion" Baptist. We will probably lose everything. Our mission board won't have us because we don't agree with their statement of faith anymore. My own Pastor will drop our monthly support and will definately "bench us for life" from ever preaching or teaching Sunday School. All of our other supporting churches will more than likely drop us like 'heretics.' AND my in-laws (a church planter/evangelist) will probably disown us!

Anybody know a good Post-Trib mission board? LOL I am actually quite excited about the whole thing. But I do not relish having to find another church, etc. And the way that Baptists do things, any church that I try to join in the future will want to know why I left, etc. I will be black-balled from the conservative Baptist realm that I have enjoyed for the past ten years.

Anybody else gone through this before?

I love it when Jesus gives us an opportunity to take a stand for Him, but this is ridiculous! LOL

ChrisJ
:typing:

p.s. Oh, and since I'll lose my monthly missionary support, I'll probably have to get a real job again! oy!


Me too. I have enter my own form of a "Pre-Wrath" closet. It has some variations to the typical "Pre-Wrath" scenerio. :mrgreen:
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Postby ChrisJ on Sun Oct 01, 2006 8:47 pm

Hi folks,

Well, it is now October 1st. I have been out of the closet for quite a while now.

At our new church, my wife is singing in the Praise Team, and playing piano at times.

I have an awesome adult class that is still growing. God is blessing it all the time. Every Sunday the Spirit shows up big time. My students are learning about life in Christ for the first time. One of them is the deacon of the church. Two of them are trustees.

I have a great new job.

Life is peachy keen. Isn't God just awesome? (and the 7 year covenant might get signed soon!)


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Postby perigrini on Sun Oct 01, 2006 8:56 pm

Favoritetopic wrote:wow...I'm shocked. I had no idea there were churches that disown people for a view on the rapture??? That sounds like legalism and maybe it's a good thing you'll be changing churches. Or if God is working on the hearts of others there maybe more members will change. I think in the last days we'll see more of that.

When my pastor talked about the rapture he came to the conclusion that he didn't know...LOL! He's funny.

Like many others at this board, I've been church shopping to find a solid bible based church. Almost every church I have run across has pretrib as part of it's statement of faith, which means that I am not allowed to join these churches as a member because I can't sign their statement of faith.

Make no mistake, pretribbers have made their unbiblical doctrine a core element to fellowship with "christians" and have often excluded non-pretribbers.

Just try posting something non-pretrib on the #1 prophecy board and see how quickly so called christians will ban you from fellowship.

Post something pretrib on a non-pretrib board and you'll see a flurry of scripture proving the falseness of the view.

That is the difference....closed minds and hearts to the truth of the Bible as compared to a Berean approach to scripture.

In Christ,
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Postby yhudit32548 on Fri Oct 20, 2006 10:15 am

Very Important,knowing this is not a Salvation point.!!!!!!!

We still look for Y'shua,if we die in the flesh or HE comes for us in the Rapture,,Y'shua is coming for you if you are in HIM! Either way you are a winner!!!

Shalom
ADONAI ROI (LORD is my Shepherd)
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Out of the pre-trib world into post

Postby Kathe on Mon Feb 04, 2008 11:33 am

About 2 years ago I stepped away from the pre trib view into pre-wrath and then into post trib. It has been quite a journey. We left our church because almost every week our pastor said something referring to being raptured away. The people were really nice but the pastor wouldn't even discuss any other viewpoint.

Since it is just about impossible to find a church that feels that the church is going to go through the tribulation we are at another pre trib church, but one that the pastor isn't so blatant with it. We won't become members as we can't sign their statement of faith that states belief in the pre trib rapture, but it biblically sound otherwise, at least so far.

I found Herb's online book early last week and read it. I, too, believe we are either in the very beginnings of the 70th week or pretty close to it. I think most of the world is blind to what is really going on. I am looking forward to getting to know you on this board. I used to be on 2 pre trib boards but got kicked off when I turned post.

I still read a lot of pre trib and pre wrath information. I believe that by reading everything that is out there I will become more discerning about what is actually the truth of the bible. That's the hardest thing I think it is dealing with pre tribbers. They have their heads in the sand and won't even discuss the subject. Frustrating.

Anyway, glad to be here.

Kathe

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Postby OBXBob on Mon Feb 04, 2008 12:40 pm

:wavewelcome: Kathe!

YBIC,


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Re: Out of the pre-trib world into post

Postby perigrini on Mon Feb 04, 2008 8:22 pm

Kathe wrote:About 2 years ago I stepped away from the pre trib view into pre-wrath and then into post trib. It has been quite a journey. We left our church because almost every week our pastor said something referring to being raptured away. The people were really nice but the pastor wouldn't even discuss any other viewpoint.

Since it is just about impossible to find a church that feels that the church is going to go through the tribulation we are at another pre trib church, but one that the pastor isn't so blatant with it. We won't become members as we can't sign their statement of faith that states belief in the pre trib rapture, but it biblically sound otherwise, at least so far.

I found Herb's online book early last week and read it. I, too, believe we are either in the very beginnings of the 70th week or pretty close to it. I think most of the world is blind to what is really going on. I am looking forward to getting to know you on this board. I used to be on 2 pre trib boards but got kicked off when I turned post.

I still read a lot of pre trib and pre wrath information. I believe that by reading everything that is out there I will become more discerning about what is actually the truth of the bible. That's the hardest thing I think it is dealing with pre tribbers. They have their heads in the sand and won't even discuss the subject. Frustrating.

Anyway, glad to be here.

Kathe

Visit my Christian blog at http://beawatchman.blogspot.com/

Welcome Kathe.

Not that long ago there was a short discussion about churches that required agreeing to the pretrib view as a prerequiste to membership. At the time I was asked for evidence that occurred.

Do you mind stating what denomination the church you're attending is? You don't have to reveal the specific location if you're uncomfortable with that...only looking for general info.

Again, welcome and God bless you!

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Postby Kathe on Tue Feb 05, 2008 11:12 am

It is a non-denominational but really it's background is baptist. It is part of the harvest bible fellowship out of Chicago. This particular church is in Michigan.

They did not ask us to leave. We just felt very uncomfortable fellowshipping in a place that was so blatantly pre-trib and voiced all of the time. People walk around saying things like, "we probably won't be here when that happens", etc. And when we approached the pastor to talk about it, he just told us that he had learned in seminary and that was it. End of discussion.

So we moved on.

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Postby Mrs. B on Wed Feb 06, 2008 10:00 pm

We Have an Altar.......


Hebrews 13:12....Wherefore, Jesus also....
that he might Sanctify the People with His Own Blood....
SUFFERED WITHOUT THE GATE.....

13.....Let Us Go Forth therefore unto Him....
Without the Camp....
Bearing His Reproach...


14.....FOR HERE Have we no Continuing City,
But we Seek One to Come....

15.....By Him...Therefore let us offer....
The Sacrifice of Praise to God....continually, that is...
The Fruit of Our lips...Giving Thanks to His Name...

16.....BUT to do good and to commumnicate forget not:
With Such Sacrifices God is Well Pleased.....


20......NOW...The God of Peace,
that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus,
That Great Shepherd of the Sheep,
through the Blood of the EVERLASTING COVENANT,

21.....Make You Perfect in every Good Work to do His Will,
Working in you that Which is Well Pleasing in His sight,
Through Jesus Christ;
To Whom Be Glory for ever and ever. Amen.

He shall confirm the Covenant......



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Postby Mrs. B on Wed Feb 06, 2008 10:01 pm

We Have an Altar.......


Hebrews 13:12....Wherefore, Jesus also....
that he might Sanctify the People with His Own Blood....
SUFFERED WITHOUT THE GATE.....

13.....Let Us Go Forth therefore unto Him....
Without the Camp....
Bearing His Reproach...


14.....FOR HERE Have we no Continuing City,
But we Seek One to Come....

15.....By Him...Therefore let us offer....
The Sacrifice of Praise to God....continually, that is...
The Fruit of Our lips...Giving Thanks to His Name...

16.....BUT to do good and to commumnicate forget not:
With Such Sacrifices God is Well Pleased.....


20......NOW...The God of Peace,
that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus,
That Great Shepherd of the Sheep,
through the Blood of the EVERLASTING COVENANT,

21.....Make You Perfect in every Good Work to do His Will,
Working in you that Which is Well Pleasing in His sight,
Through Jesus Christ;
To Whom Be Glory for ever and ever. Amen.

He shall confirm the Covenant......



bb
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Postby Lightseeker on Sat Feb 09, 2008 12:00 am

:wavewelcome: Kathe! Good to have you here. And I can relate... :grin:

Thanks for your post, Mrs. B.
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Postby bertienesbitt on Tue Mar 18, 2008 3:18 pm

:a3: praise god, i have found brothers and sisters with the same believe as me, i have recently moved from the view of pre-trib, to post-trib....my eyes were opened by a video from the prophecy club....the truth on the rapture....i watched it on google video....

i have been feeling in my heart that there was something wrong with the pre-trib issue......

do you know any were... i could download mp3 studys for mp3 player and also reading material for my laptop??

Thank you and God bless you all.....

berty...

chris sorry for jumping into your thread like this, but it is cool to find so many with the same view point.... :a2:
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Postby Abiding in His Word on Tue Mar 18, 2008 3:24 pm

:wavewelcome: bertienesbitt. Happy to have you with us!
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Postby mark s on Tue Mar 18, 2008 4:01 pm

:welcome: berty!
ειπεν αυτη ο ιησους εγω ειμι η αναστασις και η ζωη ο πιστευων εις εμε καν αποθανη ζησεται
. . . saying to her Jesus, I AM the resurrection and the life, the one believing into Me even dying shall live . . .
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Postby Salty Skipper on Tue Mar 18, 2008 4:07 pm

Welcome aboard, Bertie! :grin:
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Postby OBXBob on Wed Mar 19, 2008 12:20 pm

:wavewelcome: bertienesbitt!

YBIC,


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Postby bertienesbitt on Wed Mar 19, 2008 12:36 pm

:grin: hi thanks for the welcome.....God bless you all

bertie
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Postby CaryC on Wed Mar 19, 2008 2:12 pm

Hey Bertie,

Depending on who you are looking for, many pastors/preachers/speakers are located at iTunes. You can go to apple.com to start. Those who are still alive update their sermons and are available in podcasts.

A guy from your neck of the woods is on there. David Legge from Iron Hall in Belfast (www.preachtheword.com) He is pre-trib but not stanch or set in concrete and his site offers free downloads of books one of which is "Holiness" by J. C. Ryle which is post-trib.

The following link has a ton of transcripts/publications from sermons. Which are all post-trib. You may notice that A. W. Pink has a load of stuff on there, but he is also in the heresy section because he is pre-trib.

http://www.pbministries.org/Eschatology/eschatology.htm

This link is to the Post Tribulation Research Center and quite good:

http://www.geocities.com/~lasttrumpet/

This link here is for free sermons and teaching. You will have to pick through the site as most, if not all, are pre-trib. But that doesn't mean sermons on other topics aren't right on.

www.firefighters.org

This site here is Chuck Missler's site, who is stanch pre-trib. but has loads of good information concerning the Bible.

www.khouse.org

Most of those are in the Baptist vein, Chuck has a Calvary Chapel background. Some on here really like David Wilkerson (we do) which doesn't have much on eschatology but does have some good sermons:

http://www.tscpulpitseries.org/languages.html

That should give you a start. If you need some help on finding something holler back, or have some questions feel free to ask. I don't think Chris minded the diversion, but let me say; back to topic.
Cary
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Re: Coming out of the Post-Trib Closet

Postby in2truth on Sat Mar 28, 2009 7:50 am

Mchat said: Is Christ warning us of men who will claim to be Jesus (e.g. David Koresh). Or is he warning us of men who will come in his name, proclaiming that Jesus is the Christ, but yet will lead many astray. (There seems to be ALOT of that going on now).

I take that verse to mean that many will proclaim that Jesus is the Christ, but will preach a different gospel, so therefore, they are actually worshipping a different Jesus, one that is false.

As an example: The prosperity gospel, they all proclaim Jesus as the Christ, but at the same time, they are teaching people to make money the centre of their lives instead of making Jesus the centre of their lives.

or

Mainstream churches: I spent my childhood in an Anglican church, they teach that saved by grace means that we can do whatever we want, we can continue sinning because Jesus has already saved everyone.

There are sooo many false teachings.

I am a little over 2yo in my faith, I have already been kicked out of a church. When I was under a year old, I received a phone call telling me not to come back to church and that if I come to church on Sunday I will not be welcomed. My crime: crying too much and asking too often for help, I eventually was led by God to a deliverance minister who he used to cast the spirits of depression and suicide out of me, the next morning I woke up for the first time in 39 years not wanting to kill myself, I was elated. I then told people at the church about this and that's when I was told to leave.

As it turns out, they don't believe that someone who is spirit filled can also be affected by demons. That sort of throws the 'casting out demons' that Jesus mentions out the window, as well as the verses in Jeremiah and Job where the devil came into the Lord's presence in the heavenlies.

They actually insinuated that I was a ravenous wolf. I was under a year old in my faith, it was a tough lesson in persecution so early in my walk. The leaders also told my friends in the church to not talk to me anymore, I found that out when I called one, she said she had been told not to talk to me and was rather cold with me.

When I first went to that church, one lady stood out above all the others, and wouldn't you know it, she is the one that gave me the phone number for the deliverance minister and the only one that is still in my life today. She eventually left that church, found another and invited me along, now we both attend a church that supports people. God is using her BIG TIME to help me.
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Re: Coming out of the Post-Trib Closet

Postby oldbeans316 on Sun Mar 29, 2009 6:41 am

www.answersinrevelation.org has some very good post-trib material. The author is still in the process of updating some of his articles from his previous website, so there are still a lot missing from that website.
Blessed are the merciful, for they shall be shown mercy.
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Re: Coming out of the Post-Trib Closet

Postby shorttribber on Mon Mar 30, 2009 10:03 pm

In2truth, Howdy from shorttribber,

There is a book I highly recommend that you read, you may have heard of it already.

The book is by Gene Edwards and titled "A Tale of Three Kings" you'll probably read it more than once.
The Wisest men have changed their Counsels and Resolves upon second thoughts, much more upon experience, and approaching evils not at first discovered. Rev. Herbert Croft, 1675

Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counsellors there is safety.

Find seven years of tribulation plainly stated in the Bible.
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Re: Coming out of the Post-Trib Closet

Postby GodsStudent on Sat Apr 04, 2009 9:15 pm

in2truth: Your words were saddening in parts, but I am so glad that God carried you through the failed church that clearly only wants members who are already saved. They sound fruitless and have missed the whole purpose of witness. Someone or several of them should have stayed with you after church and for as long as need be to walk with you through to salvation. God didn't need those unwilling to serve....evidence is you! :a3:
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Re: Coming out of the Post-Trib Closet

Postby bkhoward2001 on Fri Jun 05, 2009 9:31 am

The reality is always the same..... The Truth will set you free. Rely on the truth of Jesus Christ in all things which includes the reality of Post-Trib...
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Re: Coming out of the Post-Trib Closet

Postby bchandler on Mon Jun 08, 2009 8:18 pm

In2Truth,

I agree that it is not possible for one who is saved to be "possessed", but that doesn't mean that you ca nnot come under spiritual oppression and attack.

IMO, it is just as valid to "cast out/off/away" or bind such spirits from doing harm. So I have no issue with what your deliverance minister did... But I felt that you might need to come to terms with the difference between possession and oppression so that when you relate your story to others in the future you can avoid raising the hackles of some people who might mistreat you for using the wrong word to describe what you were going through.

It is unfortunate that no one at your old church seemed to possess the wisdom or spirit to discern and counsel you regarding your experience... especially since you were so young in the faith.

So, I will attempt to make some distinction between the 2 conditions clear.

In possession it is believed that the person has either given themselves to be literaly indwelled by evil spirits or been indwelled by force against their will. I think you will find that most Christians do not believe that it is possible for the Holy Spirit and a demon to literally indwell the same body. That is likely why you were viewed with such deep concern.

With demonic oppression, you are not indwelled by an evil spirit, but rather being oppressed from without. Such evil spirits play upon the battlefield of our minds and whisper in our minds... and what they play upon is our own thoughts and attempting to take our thoughts out of agreement with God's word.

It is written that we are to take every thought captive and bring it into obedience to Christ. When our thought lives are not right, and we sin in thought word or deed, we create the footholds within our own lives for the devil to oppress us. Over time these footholds can become the spiritually fortified strongholds within our lives that keep us enslaved to sin. It is written that the weapons of our spiritual warfare are "strong to the pulling down" of such strongholds. So, IMO, the ministry of a deliverance minister that can help people determine the reasons behind their spiritual oppression, and help people to pull down such strongholds, and revoke the demonic authority we have given demons in areas of our lives that have not been submitted to Christ and the cross, is absolutely a valid ministry.

I believe that is absolutely possible for such strongholds to be pulled down and deliverance to be instantaneous, but in such cases they are also instantly delivered from the sin that created the foothold that became the stronghold also... while in other cases, deliverance is achieved by a very painful process of repentance, obedience and ongoing sanctification which denies the enemy their foothold in our thoughts... every time we reject the sin that places us under their oppression.

IMO, some forms of spiritual oppression in our lives are simply the consequences of very specific kinds of sin.

The best way to get free and remain free of spiritual oppression in all of it's forms is to live in a state of ongoing repentance and sanctification. Salvation is an instantaneous act and fact... sanctification is the lifelong process of us taking our sins, and our every thought into captivity and submitting it to the cross of Christ.

I know others may disagree with what I am teaching, but I think if you will look up the scriptural principles I have refrenced regarding spiritual warfare, and taking our thoughts captive, and bringing all into obedience toward Jesus, you will find that these principles are sound.

Of course knowing what is happening, and bringing our sins in thought word or deed into subjection are two very different things, and accomplishing the later can only be done by sheer force of will on your part, and that only by the grace and empowerment of the Holy Spirit.

So, IMO, it is absolutely possible for a Holy Spirit filled believer to come under demonic attack or oppression. And such attacks generally take place in our thought lives, generally in areas where our thoughts are out of line with God's word.
I am not a god or a doctor, and nothing i say should be construed as medical advice or even as correct. I am merely a living soul who is exercising my unalienable rights, endowed upon me by my creator, and recognized in the Constitution for the united States of America, to freely speak about the things i believe. No other soul should grant my words any weight without first determining their credibility and/or accuracy for themselves.
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Re: Coming out of the Post-Trib Closet

Postby Mrs. B on Thu Jul 09, 2009 12:24 pm

Coming out of the Post-Trib Closet....

bchandler.....you said it very well....

bb
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Re: Coming out of the Post-Trib Closet

Postby Christ_Our_Hope on Thu Sep 09, 2010 8:42 am

Peer pressure affects not only members but also your pastor. If he takes a stand on Post-Trib he would likely lose some fellowship over it.

There are many school and college leaders that know that the Pre-Trib Rapture does not hold water but for purposes of affiliation and the knowledge that taking a Post Trib stand will cost them enrollment numbers they avoid coming out of the closet. For them the cost is too high they say. Actually the cost is low. Christ and I make up a majority. But I thought that that is what drove preachers when it came to starting up Independent Bapstist churches back in the 30s and 40s?

None of us likes to rebuild relationships if we are "cut off" but how do we face Christ if we bail out on the truth?

I am glad you made your decision. I am glad that I had a pastor that was Post Trib and slowly but surely weaned us away from Pre-Trib. I caught on to it almost right away but others clung to Pre-Trib regardless. The church he pastors now has a new leader that took them back to Pre-Trib. And frankly its never been an issue to divide over. I just wish that other preachers felt the same way.
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Re: Coming out of the Post-Trib Closet

Postby ChrisJ on Fri Mar 25, 2011 6:06 am

Well, it's now 2011, and I thought I'd do a follow up post to coming out of the Post-Trib closet.

After being asked to leave our church and mission board, my wife suggested that we try the church (Baptist) where her uncle is (was) the pastor. We popped over for a couple of months. I enjoyed the Sunday School class quite a bit, and when the teacher announced that he was going to take a one month leave of absence, I asked if I could have the class. He said sure. He never came back. I taught the adult Sunday school class for 3 years LOL Personal identity in Christ was the major theme. Good stuff.

Eventually, I moved to Columbus OH for more work. My wife and I like it but we've been here for 2 years and still haven't found a church that we feel at home in. I went to Azerbaijan last year on a missions trip. I went with a church team, and they've asked me (and my wife) to go back with them this year. We don't go to that church anymore, but it's for the Kingdom, so we're going. That will be the end of next month! wahoo!

Life goes on. I started a blog about the Post Trib rapture. It is very detailed. Take a look if you'd like.

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Re: Coming out of the Post-Trib Closet

Postby TexasBeliever on Fri Mar 25, 2011 6:24 am

I liked your blog. I too became pretrib when I first came to the Lord(that was the only view being taught). But when I put all that aside, cleared my mind of everything and only used the bible and what Jesus and the old testament prophets specifically said, it was crystal clear that I had been wrong. It was/is scary, but I think I would be more horrified if I had found out the truth, AFTER I was in the tribulation. I've had several years now to try and mentally prepare myself for what's coming. But in the end, I think only God can give me the courage and strong faith that I will need then.
Today's mighty oak is just yesterday's nut that held it's ground.
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Re: Coming out of the Post-Trib Closet

Postby jgilberAZ on Fri Mar 25, 2011 7:51 am

bchandler wrote:With demonic oppression, you are not indwelled by an evil spirit, but rather being oppressed from without. Such evil spirits play upon the battlefield of our minds and whisper in our minds... and what they play upon is our own thoughts and attempting to take our thoughts out of agreement with God's word.
emphasis mine

bchandler wrote:So, IMO, it is absolutely possible for a Holy Spirit filled believer to come under demonic attack or oppression. And such attacks generally take place in our thought lives, generally in areas where our thoughts are out of line with God's word.
emphasis mine

I don't want to derail this thread.

But, there is a long discussion of this on another thread:

Satanic Oppression

.
2 Timothy 2:24a..And the servant of the Lord must not strive ...
The meaning is, that the servant of Christ should be a man of peace. He should not indulge in the feelings which commonly give rise to contention, and which commonly characterize it. He should not struggle for mere victory, even when endeavoring to maintain truth; but should do this, in all cases, with a kind spirit, and a mild temper; with entire candor; with nothing designed to provoke and irritate an adversary; and so that, whatever may be the result of the discussion, "the bond of peace" may, if possible, be preserved.
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Re: Coming out of the Post-Trib Closet

Postby xdrifter on Sat Feb 02, 2013 4:43 pm

Great thread. Good to see so many aware of the truth on this subject.

If there is ever any wonder how it felt to Jesus, and the Apostles to be rejected and outed by their own Brothers and Sisters - just start talking about the fact the Pre-Trib Rapture is not Scriptural and you can experience it for yourself. My opinion is that we should hope for the best and prepare for the worst.

In all my searching for Scriptural evidence to the Pre-Trib rapture all I could find was that which addresses Philadelphia where they are promised that they will be kept from "the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world", :

Jesus told the Philadelphia Church,

7. "And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write, 'These things says He who is holy, He who is true, "He who has the key of David, He who opens and no one shuts, and shuts and no one opens":
8 "I know your works. See, I have set before you an open door, and no one can shut it; for you have a little strength, have kept My word, and have not denied My name.
9 Indeed I will make those of the synagogue of Satan, who say they are Jews and are not, but lie--indeed I will make them come and worship before your feet, and to know that I have loved you.
10 Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth.
11 Behold, I am coming quickly! Hold fast what you have, that no one may take your crown.
12 He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he shall go out no more. And I will write on him the name of My God and the name of the city of My God, the New Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God. And I will write on him My new name.
13 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches." ' (Revelation 3:7-13. NKJV throughout).

Does the hour of Trial this group is kept from refer to the Great Tribulation? Or the Wrath that is poured out following the Tribulation?

Aside from that if it was a promise of avoiding the Tribulation, who of us can actually say with all assurance we belong to this group?
"About the time of the end, a body of men will be raised up who will turn their attention to the prophecies, and insist upon their literal interpretation, in the midst of much clamour and opposition." Sir Isaac Newton, 1642-1727

Remember me affectionately to good Dr. Price and to the honest heretic Dr. Priestly. I do not call him honest by way of distinction; for I think all the heretics I have known have been virtuous men. They have the virtue of fortitude or they would not venture to own their heresy; and they cannot afford to be deficient in any of the other virtues, as that would give advantage to their many enemies; and they have not like orthodox sinners, such a number of friends to excuse or justify them. Do not, however mistake me. It is not to my good friend's heresy that I impute his honesty. On the contrary, 'tis his honesty that has brought upon him the character of heretic.
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Re: Coming out of the Post-Trib Closet

Postby Mrs. B on Sat Feb 02, 2013 7:37 pm

Coming out of the Post-Trib Closet........

Jesus warns not to be deceived......that is why we must know HIM......
most people know about Jesus....but they do not know him...
I know about Obama....but I do not know him....I have no personal relationship with him...
A lot of Christians know all about Jesus....but they do not have a personnel relationship with HIM.
they do not know Him.
we must learn to obey Him....
there were 10 called virgins......Jesus said five were foolish and five wise...
people know about Him....but we are to Know Him....have a personnel relationship with Him...
Do you obey what His holy Spirit is speaking to you??? we must obey Him....do that which His Holy Spirit is leading us to do....
we must die daily....we give up our will....and we do His Will..we give up our life
When Jesus say...I never knew you.....He is talking about relationship and obedience...
We Must Know Him...
He is our Healer, our provider, our Lord and Master....we obey Him and walk by His Leading in Our Lives...
when He says go...we go
when He says give...we give
whenHe says stay still....we wait
we must learn to be lid by His Holy Spirit....Be still and know that I am God.
He will Make Himself Known to Us when we have Relation with Him...When we hear His Voice and Obey...
We Must Know Him....

He said...I never knew you to the foolish virgins.....

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