"Church" not in the Tribulation?

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"Church" not in the Tribulation?

Postby Yogi on Sun Sep 05, 2010 5:10 pm

Well, I'm not sure if you ever considered the consequences of such a belief or not. We have heard PLENTY of things from the pre trib side about the contrary. (God pouring out wrath on His children, etc.)
So for a little balance, even though it may be hard to take when using a bit of tongue in cheek for a serious subject, I thought I'd pass along this little study because most of it actually seems a fair criticism.

Matt. 16:18- And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. But it can’t be built with those people in the tribulation. They aren’t the Church, right? Even though they likely outnumber all believers who have ever lived in history previously.

Matt 18:17- And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell [it] unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican. So, by not being the church, those trib saints are to be equated with heathens!

1 Cor 14:4- He that speaketh in an [unknown] tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church. Well, prophesying edifies the Churchsee below.

(Rev. 11:3- And I will give [power] unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred [and] threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.) Who do these guys think they are building up? The church is gone. They aren’t part of it either, nor are the 144,000.

1 Cor 15:9- For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. Not to worry, trib saints, persecution won’t be coming to you, it comes to the church.

Eph. 1:22- And hath put all [things] under his feet, and gave him [to be] the head over all [things] to the church, Well, He can’t be Head over these people then.

Eph. 3:21- Unto him [be] glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen. No glory to God in these folks in the tribulation. And it must “really” mean not ALL ages, just till the church age ends.

Eph. 5:23- For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. Still, He isn’t the Head over trib saints, they aren’t the church.

Eph. 5:24- Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so [let] the wives [be] to their own husbands in every thing Uh-oh, they won’t be subject to Christ, AND their wives won’t listen to them…mine has a head start.

Eph. 5:25- Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; But He DIDN’T give Himself for these wanna-be’s

Eph. 5:27- That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish. These people will be an absolute mess, yuck.

Eph. 5:29- For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church: Sorry, the Lord must have NOTHING for these wretches.

Col. 1:18- And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all [things] he might have the preeminence. Nope, they are headless.

Col. 1:24- Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church: Pre tiib performs a major amputation! (Decapitation)

Heb. 12:23- To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, Doesn’t apply here to trib saints. They must be the after-birth.

Acts 16:5- And so were the churches established in the faith, and increased in number daily. Perhaps trib saints won’t be really established in the true faith?

1 Cor. 14:33- For God is not [the author] of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints. OK, so these guys will be terribly mixed up and in constant turmoil.

1 Cor. 14:34- Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but [they are commanded] to be under obedience, as also saith the law. Oh no, in this crowd the women will be out of control and will never shut up! What could be worse? We’re talkin about real tribulation here.

1Cor. 16:1- Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye There won’t be any collecting going on among such cheapskates. I’ll fit right in.

2 Cor. 8:1- Moreover, brethren, we do you to wit of the grace of God bestowed on the churches of Macedonia; You can tell there is NO grace for trib saints.

Rev. 2:7- He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God. "Only as directed"... To REAL church people. Not those guys.

Rev. 2:11- He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death. Oooooo, that one hurts, the old bait and switch.

Rev. 2:17- He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth [it] No manna for you- trib saint.

Rev. 22:16- I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. Oh great, even the book of Revelation itself will do nothing for them. The real church folks just get to read what doom is coming fro those who THINK they are the church.

Rev. 12:17- And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. Well if they REALLY kept the commandments they would probably BE the church. But it cannot be because they missed their chance.

Rev. 14:12- Here is the patience of the saints: here [are] they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. They can keep getting commanded all they want, they ain’t IN it.

Rev. 22:14- Blessed [are] they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. I’d like to see them get passed those angels at the gates. You saw the promises made to the CHURCH, not them!
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Re: "Church" not in the Tribulation?

Postby 4givenmuch on Sun Sep 05, 2010 6:34 pm

But it can’t be built with those people in the tribulation. They aren’t the Church, right? Even though they likely outnumber all believers who have ever lived in history previously.


It is my understanding that they are not the "church." The church is the bride, they will be the martyred saints that serve at the alter forever.
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Re: "Church" not in the Tribulation?

Postby Yogi on Sun Sep 05, 2010 10:02 pm

Rev. 2:7- He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God. "Only as directed"... To REAL church people. Not those guys.

I think the point was that, if they are NOT the church, verses like this exclude them from "serving at the alter". Meaning that these kind of promises are exclusively for the CHURCH, not others who aren't the church.
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Re: "Church" not in the Tribulation?

Postby shorttribber on Fri Oct 15, 2010 2:53 pm

4givenmuch wrote:
But it can’t be built with those people in the tribulation. They aren’t the Church, right? Even though they likely outnumber all believers who have ever lived in history previously.


It is my understanding that they are not the "church." The church is the bride, they will be the martyred saints that serve at the alter forever.


Based on Rev 6: 9-11? Those saints who were slain for the Word of God and the Testimony they held just weren't as "spiritual" as the "PRE-TRIB BRIDE"?

This Laodicean, lazy, namby-pamby, greedy, self-seeking, blind, barking at the moon old hag of a modern church ain't going to fly away until we are fit for the wedding..................... :oops: .......sorry just couldn't hold that in :mrgreen:
The Wisest men have changed their Counsels and Resolves upon second thoughts, much more upon experience, and approaching evils not at first discovered. Rev. Herbert Croft, 1675

Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counsellors there is safety.

Find seven years of tribulation plainly stated in the Bible.
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Postby Tevye on Fri Oct 15, 2010 4:25 pm

shorttribber wrote:Based on Rev 6: 9-11? Those saints who were slain for the Word of God and the Testimony they held just weren't as "spiritual" as the "PRE-TRIB BRIDE"?

This Laodicean, lazy, namby-pamby, greedy, self-seeking, blind, barking at the moon old hag of a modern church ain't going to fly away until we are fit for the wedding..................... :oops: .......sorry just couldn't hold that in :mrgreen:

:mrgreen: Ya know, that is harsh! :grin: But, very apropos.
(Sometimes ya just gotta let it out)

I believe that the reason we will experence the great tribulation
is not for our own sake, but for the glory of God.
Believers suffered in various extremes in the first century church
it was as if they were in the thick of the tribulation.
Belivers throughout time from then have ungone persecution.
The last generation church, just because she belongs to God
will worldwide experience various levels of extreme trials upon her faith.
I truly believe that in the new kingdom of Christ
the stories of tribulation by all of the saints, the elect
will fill volumes in all the libraries of the New Jerusalem,
and will keep us chatting, sharing them with one another, forever.


"There will be a day." ~ (video link)
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Postby Tevye on Sat Oct 16, 2010 5:16 am

"I will praise You Lord my God
Even in my brokenness
I will praise You Lord

...my life is in Your hands
And though I cannot see You
I choose to trust You
-
And if I have to suffer
I know that You've been there
And I know that You're here now"


Vinyard Music - "Yet I will Praise" - (video link)
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Re: "Church" not in the Tribulation?

Postby shorttribber on Sat Oct 16, 2010 6:57 am

Tevye wrote:I believe that the reason we will experence the great tribulation
is not for our own sake, but for the glory of God.


Bingo!

To Prove........WHO.........HE.......IS...........and to PROVE that Christ.........IN.......US.........WILL OVERCOME...................the LOSER.............................................GOD SHALL CONFIRM THE TRUTH..............................OF HIS POWER............................IN US!!!!!!!!!!!! :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana:


Hosana!!!
The Wisest men have changed their Counsels and Resolves upon second thoughts, much more upon experience, and approaching evils not at first discovered. Rev. Herbert Croft, 1675

Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counsellors there is safety.

Find seven years of tribulation plainly stated in the Bible.
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Re: "Church" not in the Tribulation?

Postby Tevye on Sun Oct 17, 2010 4:09 am

I saw the brighest star in the southeast sky last night.
It reminded me of God's faithfulness, that He is here with us.
He is faithful.
The Kry - "Faithful" - (Official Music Video)
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Re: "Church" not in the Tribulation?

Postby shorttribber on Sun Oct 17, 2010 5:55 am

Tevye wrote:I saw the brighest star in the southeast sky last night.
It reminded me of God's faithfulness, that He is here with us.
He is faithful.
The Kry - "Faithful" - (Official Music Video)


Rev. 19:11

And His Name was called................FAITHFUL AND TRUE.

Hosana!
:banana: :banana: :banana:
The Wisest men have changed their Counsels and Resolves upon second thoughts, much more upon experience, and approaching evils not at first discovered. Rev. Herbert Croft, 1675

Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counsellors there is safety.

Find seven years of tribulation plainly stated in the Bible.
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Re: "Church" not in the Tribulation?

Postby Tevye on Sun Oct 17, 2010 7:55 am

shorttribber wrote:Rev. 19:11

And His Name was called................FAITHFUL AND TRUE.

Hosana!

Whose "eyes are like blazing fire,"

Who is this King of Glory?

The earth is the LORD's, and everything in it, the world, and all who live in it;
for he founded it upon the seas and established it upon the waters.
Who may ascend the hill of the LORD ? Who may stand in his holy place?
He who has clean hands and a pure heart,
who does not lift up his soul to an idol or swear by what is false.
He will receive blessing from the LORD and vindication from God his Savior.
Such is the generation of those who seek him, who seek your face, O God of Jacob.
Selah
Lift up your heads, O you gates; be lifted up, you ancient doors,
that the King of glory may come in.

Who is this King of glory?
The LORD strong and mighty,
the LORD mighty in battle.

Lift up your heads, O you gates; lift them up, you ancient doors,
that the King of glory may come in.

Who is he, this King of glory?
The LORD Almighty he is the King of glory.
Selah

Psalm 24

Listening...to Revelation 19...link
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