Post-Wrath
The seven thousand years......
I do not know how to count the years by the Jew's calendar.....
but the Jews did not receive Jesus when He came......so I'm really now sure that their Calendar is OK...
I did a study.....some years ago......and this was my sum....from just studying the years in the bible...
Adam to Isaac is 2000 years
Isaac to Jesus was 2000 years
Jesus to today is 2000 years
Adam to the flood was 1500
then Abraham had Isaac and it was 400 years till they cross the red sea..
Isaac to Jesus was 2000 years
Church age 2000 years....
Now I am Rounding off the years.......But it Runs pretty close...
We are now in the last of the 2000 years since Jesus was Born..
that leaves 1000 for the millimum......
which totales 7000 years....
I do not think it is necessary to be exact....because then we would know......but it is God's Timing
When Our Sins are full then the a/c will come on the scene......
Because Jesus said no man knows....only My Father
But we can know the season.....
By the Signs....in the Heaven and in the Earth...
The Nations are a sign
Sin is a sign
Unbelief is a sign...
False Teachers, and leaders, and people being deceived is a sign that we are the last Generatiion.....
Which leaves us the 1000 years for the Kingdom of God to be on the Earth...I also believe there will be some time between the destruction of the world....and the World being renewed.....Just like after the Flood..
Man had to repopulation the earth......The Geography of the world will be changed.....land masses will be changed..
The bible says the earth will be moved out of it's place.....this will change every thing....land,sea, mountains..cost lines......The Earth will be Cleansed with Fire.....
Mrs. B
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Post-Wrath
Re: Post-Wrath
by Mrs. B on Wed Jan 19, 2011 8:50 pm
- Mrs. B
- Posts: 1911
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Re: Post-Wrath
by Seeker on Thu Jan 20, 2011 8:08 am
Hi Mrs. B,
I agree with you that there is some time between the end of the world and the renewed world.
2Th 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
2Th 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
2Th 1:10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.
Isa 10:16 Therefore shall the Lord, the Lord of hosts, send among his fat ones leanness; and under his glory he shall kindle a burning like the burning of a fire.
Isa 10:17 And the light of Israel shall be for a fire, and his Holy One for a flame: and it shall burn and devour his thorns and his briers in one day;
Isa 10:18 And shall consume the glory of his forest, and of his fruitful field, both soul and body: and they shall be as when a standardbearer fainteth.
Isa 10:19 And the rest of the trees of his forest shall be few, that a child may write them.
Isa 10:20 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the remnant of Israel, and such as are escaped of the house of Jacob, shall no more again stay upon him that smote them; but shall stay upon the LORD, the Holy One of Israel, in truth.
Isa 66:15 For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.
Isa 66:16 For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many.
Jesus returns in flaming fire upon His return. That is when I see the earth destroyed or leveled at least (mountains thrown down...etc).
2Pe 3:4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
2Pe 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
2Pe 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
The elements melt at the return of Jesus. Jesus returns at the beginning of the millennium and we reign with Him for 1,000 years.
Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
Rev 21 is after the 1,000 years and there we see new Jerusalem coming down from heaven. So I actually think that the earth isn't renewed until after the millennium. There has been earth changing wrath which as you say changes the whole geography. All that occurs at the cosmic signs/return of Jesus. Then as Jesus returns the earth is cleansed with fire as shown in scripture.
Peace,
Seeker
Which leaves us the 1000 years for the Kingdom of God to be on the Earth...I also believe there will be some time between the destruction of the world....and the World being renewed.....Just like after the Flood..
Man had to repopulation the earth......The Geography of the world will be changed.....land masses will be changed..
The bible says the earth will be moved out of it's place.....this will change every thing....land,sea, mountains..cost lines......The Earth will be Cleansed with Fire.....
I agree with you that there is some time between the end of the world and the renewed world.
2Th 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
2Th 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
2Th 1:10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.
Isa 10:16 Therefore shall the Lord, the Lord of hosts, send among his fat ones leanness; and under his glory he shall kindle a burning like the burning of a fire.
Isa 10:17 And the light of Israel shall be for a fire, and his Holy One for a flame: and it shall burn and devour his thorns and his briers in one day;
Isa 10:18 And shall consume the glory of his forest, and of his fruitful field, both soul and body: and they shall be as when a standardbearer fainteth.
Isa 10:19 And the rest of the trees of his forest shall be few, that a child may write them.
Isa 10:20 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the remnant of Israel, and such as are escaped of the house of Jacob, shall no more again stay upon him that smote them; but shall stay upon the LORD, the Holy One of Israel, in truth.
Isa 66:15 For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.
Isa 66:16 For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many.
Jesus returns in flaming fire upon His return. That is when I see the earth destroyed or leveled at least (mountains thrown down...etc).
2Pe 3:4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
2Pe 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
2Pe 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
The elements melt at the return of Jesus. Jesus returns at the beginning of the millennium and we reign with Him for 1,000 years.
Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
Rev 21 is after the 1,000 years and there we see new Jerusalem coming down from heaven. So I actually think that the earth isn't renewed until after the millennium. There has been earth changing wrath which as you say changes the whole geography. All that occurs at the cosmic signs/return of Jesus. Then as Jesus returns the earth is cleansed with fire as shown in scripture.
Peace,
Seeker
Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.
So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,
So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,
- Seeker
- Posts: 1988
- Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 4:32 pm
Re: Post-Wrath
by bchandler on Thu Jan 20, 2011 10:18 am
Seeker, am I getting this right... you seem to be collapsing things that are at the end of the thousand years and bringing them forward to YASHUA's second coming.
At the end of the 1000 years scripture tells us plainly, clearly and without ambiguity that the old heaven and earth are destroyed... not renewed, or remade... but destroyed. Then... after it has "passed away" God either:
creates a new heaven and earth, or...
He takes us to a new heaven and earth.
Looking at the image of a 1400 mile cubed city of new Jerusalem descending out of heaven and "landing" on new Earth... looks an awful lot like God is bringing us to the New Earth on a massive space ship. One that by my calculations would be capable of holding 11 trillion people with 4 acres of room for each person, with 100 feet between floors.
At the end of the 1000 years scripture tells us plainly, clearly and without ambiguity that the old heaven and earth are destroyed... not renewed, or remade... but destroyed. Then... after it has "passed away" God either:
creates a new heaven and earth, or...
He takes us to a new heaven and earth.
Looking at the image of a 1400 mile cubed city of new Jerusalem descending out of heaven and "landing" on new Earth... looks an awful lot like God is bringing us to the New Earth on a massive space ship. One that by my calculations would be capable of holding 11 trillion people with 4 acres of room for each person, with 100 feet between floors.
I am not a god or a doctor, and nothing i say should be construed as medical advice or even as correct. I am merely a living soul who is exercising my unalienable rights, endowed upon me by my creator, and recognized in the Constitution for the united States of America, to freely speak about the things i believe. No other soul should grant my words any weight without first determining their credibility and/or accuracy for themselves.
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bchandler - Posts: 3619
- Joined: Tue Mar 07, 2006 5:22 pm
- Location: Spanish Fork, Utah
Re: Post-Wrath
by Mrs. B on Thu Jan 20, 2011 10:53 am
Post Wrath.....
Seeker I agree with you....
What I am saying is there will be a time after this second world Judgment.....just like a time after the flood..
The world had to be repopulated.....and
the Kingdom of God must be set up on this Earth...
there will be a time when the earth is replinished....and the earth again will be repopulated by man.....
We the born again will be in our new bodies......and the Earth will be restored....the curse will be taken away.
There will be no more curse.......
It will be like a paradise......Like the creation from the beginning...
Animals will be at peace with man......
Isaiah 2:2....And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the Lord's house shall be established in the top of the mountains...and shall be exaltd above the hills; and All Nations shall flow unto it.....
This is the time I am refering too....
There are so many scriptures that discribe this....especailly in Isaiah...
3.....And many people shall go and say....COME YE, AND LET US GO UP TO THE MOUNTAIN OF THE LORD....
to the house of the God of Jacob;
and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths:
for out of Zion...shall go forth the law, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem...
4....And He shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people:
and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks:
nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more...
Read all this chapter...
You see even at the end of this thousand years....there will be those who will follow satan..
when satan is loose....at the end of the thousand years......we see people who follow him....
But during this thousand years.....when the devil is bound...
The curse is removed...
and men again will live long
and The Born AGain Church will rule and reign with Christ...with a rod of Iron..... a rod of Righteousness.
Paul writes to the Romans...
Rom 8:14....For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God...
17....And if children, then heirs;
heirs of God, and joint heris with Christ;
if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also Glorified Together...
18...For I reckon that the sufferings of this preent time are not worthy to be compared with the Glory which shall be revealed in us...
19...For the Earnest Expectation of the creature...Waiteth for the Manifestation of the Sons of God...
Manifestation of the Sons of God????
When we are ressurrected first.....and for a thousand years we rule and reign with Jesus on this Earth...
When He is Glorified...
I believe we are living now in God's Short Work with Israel...
Rom 9:28...For he will finish the work, and cut it short in Righteousness:
Because a short work will the Lord make upon the Earth.....
This is also a sign of the end......when Jesus shall come and Israel sees Him as the Messigh....
Mrs. B
Seeker I agree with you....
What I am saying is there will be a time after this second world Judgment.....just like a time after the flood..
The world had to be repopulated.....and
the Kingdom of God must be set up on this Earth...
there will be a time when the earth is replinished....and the earth again will be repopulated by man.....
We the born again will be in our new bodies......and the Earth will be restored....the curse will be taken away.
There will be no more curse.......
It will be like a paradise......Like the creation from the beginning...
Animals will be at peace with man......
Isaiah 2:2....And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the Lord's house shall be established in the top of the mountains...and shall be exaltd above the hills; and All Nations shall flow unto it.....
This is the time I am refering too....
There are so many scriptures that discribe this....especailly in Isaiah...
3.....And many people shall go and say....COME YE, AND LET US GO UP TO THE MOUNTAIN OF THE LORD....
to the house of the God of Jacob;
and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths:
for out of Zion...shall go forth the law, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem...
4....And He shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people:
and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks:
nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more...
Read all this chapter...
You see even at the end of this thousand years....there will be those who will follow satan..
when satan is loose....at the end of the thousand years......we see people who follow him....
But during this thousand years.....when the devil is bound...
The curse is removed...
and men again will live long
and The Born AGain Church will rule and reign with Christ...with a rod of Iron..... a rod of Righteousness.
Paul writes to the Romans...
Rom 8:14....For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God...
17....And if children, then heirs;
heirs of God, and joint heris with Christ;
if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also Glorified Together...
18...For I reckon that the sufferings of this preent time are not worthy to be compared with the Glory which shall be revealed in us...
19...For the Earnest Expectation of the creature...Waiteth for the Manifestation of the Sons of God...
Manifestation of the Sons of God????
When we are ressurrected first.....and for a thousand years we rule and reign with Jesus on this Earth...
When He is Glorified...
I believe we are living now in God's Short Work with Israel...
Rom 9:28...For he will finish the work, and cut it short in Righteousness:
Because a short work will the Lord make upon the Earth.....
This is also a sign of the end......when Jesus shall come and Israel sees Him as the Messigh....
Mrs. B
- Mrs. B
- Posts: 1911
- Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 1:19 pm
Re: Post-Wrath
by Seeker on Thu Jan 20, 2011 2:24 pm
Hi bchandler,
No
Thats what Rev 21 is the new heaven and new earth. The earth is torched/elements melt, mountains thrown down, every wall falls, great earthquake upon the arrival of Jesus. The new earth isn't until after the 1,000 years when New Jerusalem descends. The inhabitants during the millennium will still be on old but torched/destroyed earth. New earth after the 1,000 years when we see New Jerusalem descend.
Peace,
Seeker
Seeker, am I getting this right...
No
At the end of the 1000 years scripture tells us plainly, clearly and without ambiguity that the old heaven and earth are destroyed... not renewed, or remade... but destroyed.
Thats what Rev 21 is the new heaven and new earth. The earth is torched/elements melt, mountains thrown down, every wall falls, great earthquake upon the arrival of Jesus. The new earth isn't until after the 1,000 years when New Jerusalem descends. The inhabitants during the millennium will still be on old but torched/destroyed earth. New earth after the 1,000 years when we see New Jerusalem descend.
Peace,
Seeker
Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.
So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,
So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,
- Seeker
- Posts: 1988
- Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 4:32 pm
Re: Post-Wrath
by Seeker on Sat Mar 05, 2011 11:19 am
As it was in the days of Noah...
Luk 17:20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
Luk 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
Luk 17:22 And he said unto the disciples, The days will come, when ye shall desire to see one of the days of the Son of man, and ye shall not see it.
Jesus was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come. He begins to explain many things concerning the kingdom of God. Jesus also tells them exactly what to look for leading up to His second coming. Luke 17 gives us some first hand information describing the kingdom and its establishment.
Luk 17:23 And they shall say to you, See here; or, see there: go not after them, nor follow them.
Luk 17:24 For as the lightning, that lighteneth out of the one part under heaven, shineth unto the other part under heaven; so shall also the Son of man be in his day.
The first thing we are told is not to go looking for Jesus when He returns that will not be neccessary everyone will see it. For as lightning shining on one side of the sky is visible across another part of the sky His return will be obvious to all. No secret rapture.
Rev 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.
Mat 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Mat 24:25 Behold, I have told you before.
Mat 24:26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
Mat 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Every eye will see Jesus returning as lightning from the east shines to the west as well. Matthew 24 makes the point crystal clear and agrees with Rev 1 and Luke 17. So we have three scriptures supporting the fact that there will be no secret rapture.
Luk 17:25 But first must he suffer many things, and be rejected of this generation.
Luk 17:26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
Before His return He must be rejected of His generation. Next Jesus gives us something to compare His second coming to. As it was in the days of Noah so will it be when Jesus returns.
Luk 17:27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
They were living as if they didn't have a care in the world "until the day Noah entered into the ark".
Gen 6:12 And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth.
Gen 6:13 And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.
Gen 6:17 And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; and every thing that is in the earth shall die.
Jesus tells us that His second coming will be as the days of Noah and the flood. What was God's intention with the flood? He tells us in Genesis 6 above. The flood was designed to destroy all flesh except Noah and his family. As it was in the days of Noah they ate, drank, and married up until the day Noah entered into the ark and then the flood destroyed them all. That is what Jesus compares His return with.
Luk 17:28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
Luk 17:29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
Luk 17:30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.
Likewise with Lot. They ate, drank, and were merry but the same day Lot went out of Sodom they were all destroyed with fire and brimstone from heaven. It will be like the day of Sodom when the Son of man is revealed. When is Jesus revealed?
2Th 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
Jesus is revealed from heaven when He returns with His angels in flaming fire taking vengence. This is the return of Christ just as described by Jesus in Luke 17. He is revealed destroying the sinners just as the days of Lot and Noah. We see it throughout scripture.
Rev 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
Rev 6:13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
Rev 6:14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
Rev 6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
Rev 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
Rev 6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?
The cosmic signs accompany the return of Jesus as does the wrath of God. The sun/moon/stars are darkened in the OT descriptions of the DOTL.
Isa 13:9 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.
Isa 13:10 For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.
Joe 2:31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.
Joe 3:12 Let the heathen be wakened, and come up to the valley of Jehoshaphat: for there will I sit to judge all the heathen round about.
Joe 3:13 Put ye in the sickle, for the harvest is ripe: come, get you down; for the press is full, the fats overflow; for their wickedness is great.
Joe 3:14 Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision: for the day of the LORD is near in the valley of decision.
Joe 3:15 The sun and the moon shall be darkened, and the stars shall withdraw their shining.
Joe 3:16 The LORD also shall roar out of Zion, and utter his voice from Jerusalem; and the heavens and the earth shall shake: but the LORD will be the hope of his people, and the strength of the children of Israel.
The cosmic signs connect it all to Matthew 24 cosmic signs at the return of Christ. Jesus is returning to remove the sinners just as the days of Lot and Noah. Luke 17 tells us when this all occurs as well.
Luk 17:26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
Luk 17:27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark , and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
Luk 17:28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
Luk 17:29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
Luk 17:30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.
On the exact same day that both Noah and Lot were protected the sinners were removed. Thus will it be when Jesus returns. On the exact same day that Jesus protects the saints, the sinners will be destroyed. Both groups are dealt with together at the same time. No secret rapture (pre-trib) or early departures (pre-wrath) both groups at the same time. We can verify that with various scriptures as well.
Rev 14:14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.
Rev 14:15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.
Rev 14:16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.
Rev 14:17 And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.
Rev 14:18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.
Rev 14:19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.
Rev 14:20 And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs.
The earth is reaped in 14:15 by the one that sat on the clouds presumably Jesus reaping the saints. Then in 14:19 we see another angel reaping again and casting them into the winepress of the wrath of God. Two reapings at the same time saints and sinners.
2Th 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
2Th 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
2Th 1:10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.
Two groups those Jesus takes vengence on (2Th 1:8); those who believe and admire Him in that day(2Th 1:10).
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Two groups all tribes mourning; the gathered elect.
Joe 3:13 Put ye in the sickle, for the harvest is ripe: come, get you down; for the press is full, the fats overflow; for their wickedness is great.
Joe 3:14 Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision: for the day of the LORD is near in the valley of decision.
Joe 3:15 The sun and the moon shall be darkened, and the stars shall withdraw their shining.
Joe 3:16 The LORD also shall roar out of Zion, and utter his voice from Jerusalem; and the heavens and the earth shall shake: but the LORD will be the hope of his people, and the strength of the children of Israel.
Two groups the harvested wicked; His people the children of Israel,
Mat 13:47 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a net, that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind:
Mat 13:48 Which, when it was full, they drew to shore, and sat down, and gathered the good into vessels, but cast the bad away.
Mat 13:49 So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,
Mat 13:50 And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
Two groups the bad and the good with the wicked severed from among the just. The wicked are removed from the group of just as in the days of Noah and Lot. Bad removed good left.
Mat 13:28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?
Mat 13:29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.
Mat 13:30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.
Two groups tares and wheat. They are told not to pull the tares up from among the wheat until the time of the harvest. Let both grow together until the harvest. At the time of the harvest the reapers/angels are told to gather the tares first or gather them from among the just.
Mat 13:39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
Mat 13:40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
Mat 13:41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
Mat 13:42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
Mat 13:43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
Jesus sends His angels to gather out of His kingdom all things that offend (tares) and cast them into the furnace of fire. Then, after that, the righteous will shine forth in the kingdom of the Father. After the offending things are removed we are left with the wheat as the only group on earth who inherit the kingdom here on earth. The earth is cleansed of all evil things leaving only good. That is why the tares go first they are the evil things that offend and must be removed.
Luk 17:26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
Luk 17:27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
Luk 17:28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
Luk 17:29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
Luk 17:30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.
It is clear that there are two groups present in both of the examples Jesus mentions with the evil group being destroyed or removed. In all the examples I have cited there are two groups present. Both pre-trib and pre-wrath separate the rapture of the saints and sinners which is contrary to the scriptures I have shown in this study. Almost every example of the second coming shows both groups (wheat/tares) present at the time of the harvest. Luke 17 definitely shows both groups being dealt with, not around the same time but on the very same day. Jesus Himself likened His second coming to both the days of Noah and Lot where both groups were definitely present with the evil side being destroyed at the same day the saint side is being rescued. There is no secret or early rapture we all go at the same time folks and that time is the same time Jesus destroys the sinners. We will witness Armageddon and all the trials up to that point so now is the time to mentally prepare folks it's going to be a bumpy ride to say the least.
Peace,
Seeker
Luk 17:20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
Luk 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
Luk 17:22 And he said unto the disciples, The days will come, when ye shall desire to see one of the days of the Son of man, and ye shall not see it.
Jesus was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come. He begins to explain many things concerning the kingdom of God. Jesus also tells them exactly what to look for leading up to His second coming. Luke 17 gives us some first hand information describing the kingdom and its establishment.
Luk 17:23 And they shall say to you, See here; or, see there: go not after them, nor follow them.
Luk 17:24 For as the lightning, that lighteneth out of the one part under heaven, shineth unto the other part under heaven; so shall also the Son of man be in his day.
The first thing we are told is not to go looking for Jesus when He returns that will not be neccessary everyone will see it. For as lightning shining on one side of the sky is visible across another part of the sky His return will be obvious to all. No secret rapture.
Rev 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.
Mat 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Mat 24:25 Behold, I have told you before.
Mat 24:26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
Mat 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Every eye will see Jesus returning as lightning from the east shines to the west as well. Matthew 24 makes the point crystal clear and agrees with Rev 1 and Luke 17. So we have three scriptures supporting the fact that there will be no secret rapture.
Luk 17:25 But first must he suffer many things, and be rejected of this generation.
Luk 17:26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
Before His return He must be rejected of His generation. Next Jesus gives us something to compare His second coming to. As it was in the days of Noah so will it be when Jesus returns.
Luk 17:27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
They were living as if they didn't have a care in the world "until the day Noah entered into the ark".
Gen 6:12 And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth.
Gen 6:13 And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.
Gen 6:17 And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; and every thing that is in the earth shall die.
Jesus tells us that His second coming will be as the days of Noah and the flood. What was God's intention with the flood? He tells us in Genesis 6 above. The flood was designed to destroy all flesh except Noah and his family. As it was in the days of Noah they ate, drank, and married up until the day Noah entered into the ark and then the flood destroyed them all. That is what Jesus compares His return with.
Luk 17:28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
Luk 17:29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
Luk 17:30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.
Likewise with Lot. They ate, drank, and were merry but the same day Lot went out of Sodom they were all destroyed with fire and brimstone from heaven. It will be like the day of Sodom when the Son of man is revealed. When is Jesus revealed?
2Th 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
Jesus is revealed from heaven when He returns with His angels in flaming fire taking vengence. This is the return of Christ just as described by Jesus in Luke 17. He is revealed destroying the sinners just as the days of Lot and Noah. We see it throughout scripture.
Rev 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
Rev 6:13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
Rev 6:14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
Rev 6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
Rev 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
Rev 6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?
The cosmic signs accompany the return of Jesus as does the wrath of God. The sun/moon/stars are darkened in the OT descriptions of the DOTL.
Isa 13:9 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.
Isa 13:10 For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.
Joe 2:31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.
Joe 3:12 Let the heathen be wakened, and come up to the valley of Jehoshaphat: for there will I sit to judge all the heathen round about.
Joe 3:13 Put ye in the sickle, for the harvest is ripe: come, get you down; for the press is full, the fats overflow; for their wickedness is great.
Joe 3:14 Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision: for the day of the LORD is near in the valley of decision.
Joe 3:15 The sun and the moon shall be darkened, and the stars shall withdraw their shining.
Joe 3:16 The LORD also shall roar out of Zion, and utter his voice from Jerusalem; and the heavens and the earth shall shake: but the LORD will be the hope of his people, and the strength of the children of Israel.
The cosmic signs connect it all to Matthew 24 cosmic signs at the return of Christ. Jesus is returning to remove the sinners just as the days of Lot and Noah. Luke 17 tells us when this all occurs as well.
Luk 17:26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
Luk 17:27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark , and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
Luk 17:28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
Luk 17:29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
Luk 17:30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.
On the exact same day that both Noah and Lot were protected the sinners were removed. Thus will it be when Jesus returns. On the exact same day that Jesus protects the saints, the sinners will be destroyed. Both groups are dealt with together at the same time. No secret rapture (pre-trib) or early departures (pre-wrath) both groups at the same time. We can verify that with various scriptures as well.
Rev 14:14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.
Rev 14:15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.
Rev 14:16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.
Rev 14:17 And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.
Rev 14:18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.
Rev 14:19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.
Rev 14:20 And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs.
The earth is reaped in 14:15 by the one that sat on the clouds presumably Jesus reaping the saints. Then in 14:19 we see another angel reaping again and casting them into the winepress of the wrath of God. Two reapings at the same time saints and sinners.
2Th 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
2Th 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
2Th 1:10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.
Two groups those Jesus takes vengence on (2Th 1:8); those who believe and admire Him in that day(2Th 1:10).
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Two groups all tribes mourning; the gathered elect.
Joe 3:13 Put ye in the sickle, for the harvest is ripe: come, get you down; for the press is full, the fats overflow; for their wickedness is great.
Joe 3:14 Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision: for the day of the LORD is near in the valley of decision.
Joe 3:15 The sun and the moon shall be darkened, and the stars shall withdraw their shining.
Joe 3:16 The LORD also shall roar out of Zion, and utter his voice from Jerusalem; and the heavens and the earth shall shake: but the LORD will be the hope of his people, and the strength of the children of Israel.
Two groups the harvested wicked; His people the children of Israel,
Mat 13:47 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a net, that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind:
Mat 13:48 Which, when it was full, they drew to shore, and sat down, and gathered the good into vessels, but cast the bad away.
Mat 13:49 So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,
Mat 13:50 And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
Two groups the bad and the good with the wicked severed from among the just. The wicked are removed from the group of just as in the days of Noah and Lot. Bad removed good left.
Mat 13:28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?
Mat 13:29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.
Mat 13:30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.
Two groups tares and wheat. They are told not to pull the tares up from among the wheat until the time of the harvest. Let both grow together until the harvest. At the time of the harvest the reapers/angels are told to gather the tares first or gather them from among the just.
Mat 13:39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
Mat 13:40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
Mat 13:41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
Mat 13:42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
Mat 13:43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
Jesus sends His angels to gather out of His kingdom all things that offend (tares) and cast them into the furnace of fire. Then, after that, the righteous will shine forth in the kingdom of the Father. After the offending things are removed we are left with the wheat as the only group on earth who inherit the kingdom here on earth. The earth is cleansed of all evil things leaving only good. That is why the tares go first they are the evil things that offend and must be removed.
Luk 17:26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
Luk 17:27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
Luk 17:28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
Luk 17:29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
Luk 17:30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.
It is clear that there are two groups present in both of the examples Jesus mentions with the evil group being destroyed or removed. In all the examples I have cited there are two groups present. Both pre-trib and pre-wrath separate the rapture of the saints and sinners which is contrary to the scriptures I have shown in this study. Almost every example of the second coming shows both groups (wheat/tares) present at the time of the harvest. Luke 17 definitely shows both groups being dealt with, not around the same time but on the very same day. Jesus Himself likened His second coming to both the days of Noah and Lot where both groups were definitely present with the evil side being destroyed at the same day the saint side is being rescued. There is no secret or early rapture we all go at the same time folks and that time is the same time Jesus destroys the sinners. We will witness Armageddon and all the trials up to that point so now is the time to mentally prepare folks it's going to be a bumpy ride to say the least.
Peace,
Seeker
Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.
So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,
So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,
- Seeker
- Posts: 1988
- Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 4:32 pm
Re: Post-Wrath
by slick on Sat Oct 29, 2011 5:39 am
Hello Seeker,
I have been browsing the thread and I must say I have no idea how I ever missed this one! from what I gather by reading your basic idea it follows what I see in scripture almost to a tee.
The only critique I would offer at this point is your choice of name for the Theory..."POST WRATH" I would rather think of it as "REVISED PRE-WRATH"
The point of contention among all Pre-Millennial camps is the timing of the "rapture" this leads to a scrambling to string together events as seem connected into a timeline that fits into their preconceived idea.
The main flaw isn't the timing of the event, but rather the EVENT ITSELF. Classic views of the rapture, imply Jesus return in the clouds, and catching believers BOTH Living at the time, and the righteous dead at the same time and bringing them to some place called heaven.while He (Jesus) carries out his reclamation/restoration of the earthly kingdom, by raining down wrath and judgement upon the unsaved.and at some point future of that time we will return and occupy NEW JERUSALEM and reign for 1000 years.
What you and I along with many others have come to see by examining the scriptures, is that the "RAPTURE" event doesn't quite resemble the classic view. both in any sense of timing or activity.
However, BECAUSE WE WILL NOT SUFFER GODS WRATH IN ANY SENSE the rescue event can still be TIMED AS PRE-WRATH which is the unleashing of the BOWL JUDGEMENTS as seen in Revelation.this judgement occurs on the very same day /hour/moment of the RESCUE EVENT and is commonly referred to as 'THE DAY OF THE LORD"
The rescue (rapture) is a calling forth to a safe vantage point, it is based on an archaic Military term, in which a besieged unit is suddenly and without knowledge given protection by a cavalry or surprise attack from the friendly force(s).
So the Rescue event (rapture) will be something like this.... The Believers will be besieged and under fierce attack by the Opposing forces of Satan through AC and his associates. the situation will be bleak, and many lives will be lost and at some point during the onslaught which seems as a hopeless situation, GOD the FATHER will put out the lights JESUS will appear in the clouds the angels associated with HIS return will call all believers to GET BEHIND JESUS and the wrath begins and ends as we descend upon the opposition. At the time of the rescue our physical bodies will be changed from mortal to immortal, and we will remain with JESUS and be a part of His kingdom hence forth.
I know that is a slight oversimplification of the scenario,but I see that as how scripture portrays it in a basic sense.
GOD-BLESS,
THE BATTLE RAGES TIL THE LION SOON ROARS!
Clarence
I have been browsing the thread and I must say I have no idea how I ever missed this one! from what I gather by reading your basic idea it follows what I see in scripture almost to a tee.
The only critique I would offer at this point is your choice of name for the Theory..."POST WRATH" I would rather think of it as "REVISED PRE-WRATH"
The point of contention among all Pre-Millennial camps is the timing of the "rapture" this leads to a scrambling to string together events as seem connected into a timeline that fits into their preconceived idea.
The main flaw isn't the timing of the event, but rather the EVENT ITSELF. Classic views of the rapture, imply Jesus return in the clouds, and catching believers BOTH Living at the time, and the righteous dead at the same time and bringing them to some place called heaven.while He (Jesus) carries out his reclamation/restoration of the earthly kingdom, by raining down wrath and judgement upon the unsaved.and at some point future of that time we will return and occupy NEW JERUSALEM and reign for 1000 years.
What you and I along with many others have come to see by examining the scriptures, is that the "RAPTURE" event doesn't quite resemble the classic view. both in any sense of timing or activity.
However, BECAUSE WE WILL NOT SUFFER GODS WRATH IN ANY SENSE the rescue event can still be TIMED AS PRE-WRATH which is the unleashing of the BOWL JUDGEMENTS as seen in Revelation.this judgement occurs on the very same day /hour/moment of the RESCUE EVENT and is commonly referred to as 'THE DAY OF THE LORD"
The rescue (rapture) is a calling forth to a safe vantage point, it is based on an archaic Military term, in which a besieged unit is suddenly and without knowledge given protection by a cavalry or surprise attack from the friendly force(s).
So the Rescue event (rapture) will be something like this.... The Believers will be besieged and under fierce attack by the Opposing forces of Satan through AC and his associates. the situation will be bleak, and many lives will be lost and at some point during the onslaught which seems as a hopeless situation, GOD the FATHER will put out the lights JESUS will appear in the clouds the angels associated with HIS return will call all believers to GET BEHIND JESUS and the wrath begins and ends as we descend upon the opposition. At the time of the rescue our physical bodies will be changed from mortal to immortal, and we will remain with JESUS and be a part of His kingdom hence forth.
I know that is a slight oversimplification of the scenario,but I see that as how scripture portrays it in a basic sense.
GOD-BLESS,
THE BATTLE RAGES TIL THE LION SOON ROARS!
Clarence
- slick
- Posts: 338
- Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2008 12:51 pm
Re: Post-Wrath
by Abiding in His Word on Sat Oct 29, 2011 6:39 am
Yes, Seeker has done a wonderful job in explaining this scriptural event throughout this thread! And you, Clarence have done a great job of presenting a short, but clear synopsis!
Post-Wrath is the term most widely used to define one's "rapture" position, but I do like the word "rescue" in your post. Or perhaps equally descriptive is the word "protection."
Post-Wrath is the term most widely used to define one's "rapture" position, but I do like the word "rescue" in your post. Or perhaps equally descriptive is the word "protection."
-
Abiding in His Word - SITE ADMIN
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- Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 4:54 pm
- Location: SW Florida
Re: Post-Wrath
by Seeker on Sat Oct 29, 2011 6:57 am
Hi Clarence,
It wasn't the right time until now apparently...lol. I hope now you can understand my confidence in what the scriptures say in the pre-trib and pre-wrath timelines. I realize I am being a bit dominating there but feel it is time to put pre-wrath and pre-trib to rest. I have been patiently debating off and on since I started this thread. Over the years I have gained significant confidence that Post-Wrath is the most accurate scripturally of all the common views. I am not up on all the different versions of post-trib so decided to differentiate this theory from the rest by naming it Post-Wrath because we will be here to witness the wrath.
I am taken back and honored thank you for taking the time to review this thread. Now you have a better idea where I am coming from. There is a specific reason that led me to the name Post-Wrath though.
Rev 16:15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
Rev 16:16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
Rev 16:17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.
Here we see Jesus arriving as a thief at the 7th vial (Armageddon). You and I know that the rapture is part of the Armageddon arrival which means the saints haven't been raptured prior to the 6th vial. So all the first 6 vials and trumpets have already occured. The saints were still on earth during all of them as the last 7 years unfolded. The saints had to endure all the wrath that is contained in the trumpets and vials to still be there at Armageddon awaiting rapture. Granted they are under the protection of God during this time but they are still on earth witnessing the wrath as it is dispenced. Jesus doesn't return until after the 6th of each (seals/trumpet/vials) to rapture the saints. Now Jesus does finish it off but there is much of the wrath prior to the arrival of Jesus. Therefore we are not raptured until after the wrath has began thus post. That was the logic behind it. I do understand what you are saying though.
Isa 26:19 Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.
Isa 26:20 Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.
Isa 26:21 For, behold, the LORD cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.
Yes I agree and have been attempting to show that recently in the Understanding the DOTL thread in this post-trib section. Read the last few posts I made. I am trying to paint an accurate picture of the arrival of Jesus. I have Him in the clouds just about ready to return. I am stuck there till a get a bit more time. I am trying to figure out how to portray everything that happens at the instant Jesus arrives. I can understand the problem John had in Revelation trying to relate the story as he saw it. Since they run in parallel he would have had to try to describe a seal, trumpet, and vial and then move on to the second of each. That just recently dawned on me. How in the world could one write an accurate portrayal of all those events in Revelation and the OT as well? That's the exact problem I have now. Yet God lays it all out throughout the entire bible and every single account ties together precisely and seemlessly. We do serve an amazing God. I am sure you have realized how hard it would be to coordinate all those events in all those books of the bible written over all those years. That is where my confidence comes from. I have debated this enough to know that no matter which direction I defend this theory from there is always scripture to back what I am trying to say. That literally has shocked me how well every piece of scripture fits so well. Anyway I am sure you understand exactly what I am saying.
My only difference here would be that the 6th seal occurs after day 2520, which is the turning out of the lights. The 6th seal occurs at the end of the last 7 years so the trumpets/vials would have already had to have occured since the 5th trumpet is 5 months long. The 5th trumpet would have to take place at least 5 months before the end of the last 7 years or during the last 3 1/2 years. That places part of the wrath of God during the last 3 1/2 years thus Post-Wrath. Besides that I think we would be in agreement.
Blessings,
Seeker
I have been browsing the thread and I must say I have no idea how I ever missed this one! from what I gather by reading your basic idea it follows what I see in scripture almost to a tee.
It wasn't the right time until now apparently...lol. I hope now you can understand my confidence in what the scriptures say in the pre-trib and pre-wrath timelines. I realize I am being a bit dominating there but feel it is time to put pre-wrath and pre-trib to rest. I have been patiently debating off and on since I started this thread. Over the years I have gained significant confidence that Post-Wrath is the most accurate scripturally of all the common views. I am not up on all the different versions of post-trib so decided to differentiate this theory from the rest by naming it Post-Wrath because we will be here to witness the wrath.
The only critique I would offer at this point is your choice of name for the Theory..."POST WRATH" I would rather think of it as "REVISED PRE-WRATH"
I am taken back and honored thank you for taking the time to review this thread. Now you have a better idea where I am coming from. There is a specific reason that led me to the name Post-Wrath though.
Rev 16:15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
Rev 16:16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
Rev 16:17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.
Here we see Jesus arriving as a thief at the 7th vial (Armageddon). You and I know that the rapture is part of the Armageddon arrival which means the saints haven't been raptured prior to the 6th vial. So all the first 6 vials and trumpets have already occured. The saints were still on earth during all of them as the last 7 years unfolded. The saints had to endure all the wrath that is contained in the trumpets and vials to still be there at Armageddon awaiting rapture. Granted they are under the protection of God during this time but they are still on earth witnessing the wrath as it is dispenced. Jesus doesn't return until after the 6th of each (seals/trumpet/vials) to rapture the saints. Now Jesus does finish it off but there is much of the wrath prior to the arrival of Jesus. Therefore we are not raptured until after the wrath has began thus post. That was the logic behind it. I do understand what you are saying though.
Isa 26:19 Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.
Isa 26:20 Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.
Isa 26:21 For, behold, the LORD cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.
The main flaw isn't the timing of the event, but rather the EVENT ITSELF. Classic views of the rapture, imply Jesus return in the clouds, and catching believers BOTH Living at the time, and the righteous dead at the same time and bringing them to some place called heaven.while He (Jesus) carries out his reclamation/restoration of the earthly kingdom, by raining down wrath and judgement upon the unsaved.and at some point future of that time we will return and occupy NEW JERUSALEM and reign for 1000 years.
Yes I agree and have been attempting to show that recently in the Understanding the DOTL thread in this post-trib section. Read the last few posts I made. I am trying to paint an accurate picture of the arrival of Jesus. I have Him in the clouds just about ready to return. I am stuck there till a get a bit more time. I am trying to figure out how to portray everything that happens at the instant Jesus arrives. I can understand the problem John had in Revelation trying to relate the story as he saw it. Since they run in parallel he would have had to try to describe a seal, trumpet, and vial and then move on to the second of each. That just recently dawned on me. How in the world could one write an accurate portrayal of all those events in Revelation and the OT as well? That's the exact problem I have now. Yet God lays it all out throughout the entire bible and every single account ties together precisely and seemlessly. We do serve an amazing God. I am sure you have realized how hard it would be to coordinate all those events in all those books of the bible written over all those years. That is where my confidence comes from. I have debated this enough to know that no matter which direction I defend this theory from there is always scripture to back what I am trying to say. That literally has shocked me how well every piece of scripture fits so well. Anyway I am sure you understand exactly what I am saying.
So the Rescue event (rapture) will be something like this.... The Believers will be besieged and under fierce attack by the Opposing forces of Satan through AC and his associates. the situation will be bleak, and many lives will be lost and at some point during the onslaught which seems as a hopeless situation, GOD the FATHER will put out the lights JESUS will appear in the clouds the angels associated with HIS return will call all believers to GET BEHIND JESUS and the wrath begins and ends as we descend upon the opposition. At the time of the rescue our physical bodies will be changed from mortal to immortal, and we will remain with JESUS and be a part of His kingdom hence forth.
My only difference here would be that the 6th seal occurs after day 2520, which is the turning out of the lights. The 6th seal occurs at the end of the last 7 years so the trumpets/vials would have already had to have occured since the 5th trumpet is 5 months long. The 5th trumpet would have to take place at least 5 months before the end of the last 7 years or during the last 3 1/2 years. That places part of the wrath of God during the last 3 1/2 years thus Post-Wrath. Besides that I think we would be in agreement.
Blessings,
Seeker
Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.
So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,
So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,
- Seeker
- Posts: 1988
- Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 4:32 pm
Re: Post-Wrath
by Seeker on Sat Oct 29, 2011 6:59 am
Thanks Abiding you have been here from the beginning much appreciated!
Blessings,
Seeker
Blessings,
Seeker
Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.
So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,
So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,
- Seeker
- Posts: 1988
- Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 4:32 pm
Re: Post-Wrath
by slick on Sat Oct 29, 2011 8:09 am
Hello Seeker,
Let me help you put the events of Revelation in a clear perspective, I can tell by your reply you believe that the Seals, Trumpets & Vials all occur with in the perimeters of the 70th week.
If you study out the Scriptures (Both OT & NT) carefully comparing scripture with scripture, you will see that the SEALS represent the entire "COSMIC CONFLICT" as such, Though John sees and depicts them as occurring within the 70th week time frame, they actually began to be opened at some time far back in History. If I were pressed to give my thoughts as to when, I would suggest during the time of Daniel and Zechariah.
Now the seals are both progressive in their Events and their intensity and with certainty some of them will be opened during the 70th week (probably 4th seal onward).
As to the Trumpets I would say they are completely within the 70th week as are the Vials and occur one following the other.The nature of the Vials Bowls are that they are SHALLOW and can be emptied quickly...and that their effects will be felt harshly and immediately, so though the possibility exists that we may be present, but more likely we will be Rescued just prior to their being poured out, thus in function only or change from mortality to Immortality could be said to be PRE-WRATH......
As I said though in my very first interaction with you, I am not sure any pre-occurrant theory will ever be 100 % accurate. but as you stated in the opening of this thread....KEEP IT SIMPLE!!!!
GOD-BLESS,
THE BATTLE RAGES TIL THE LION SOON ROARS!
Clarence
Let me help you put the events of Revelation in a clear perspective, I can tell by your reply you believe that the Seals, Trumpets & Vials all occur with in the perimeters of the 70th week.
If you study out the Scriptures (Both OT & NT) carefully comparing scripture with scripture, you will see that the SEALS represent the entire "COSMIC CONFLICT" as such, Though John sees and depicts them as occurring within the 70th week time frame, they actually began to be opened at some time far back in History. If I were pressed to give my thoughts as to when, I would suggest during the time of Daniel and Zechariah.
Now the seals are both progressive in their Events and their intensity and with certainty some of them will be opened during the 70th week (probably 4th seal onward).
As to the Trumpets I would say they are completely within the 70th week as are the Vials and occur one following the other.The nature of the Vials Bowls are that they are SHALLOW and can be emptied quickly...and that their effects will be felt harshly and immediately, so though the possibility exists that we may be present, but more likely we will be Rescued just prior to their being poured out, thus in function only or change from mortality to Immortality could be said to be PRE-WRATH......
As I said though in my very first interaction with you, I am not sure any pre-occurrant theory will ever be 100 % accurate. but as you stated in the opening of this thread....KEEP IT SIMPLE!!!!
GOD-BLESS,
THE BATTLE RAGES TIL THE LION SOON ROARS!
Clarence
- slick
- Posts: 338
- Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2008 12:51 pm
Re: Post-Wrath
by Seeker on Sat Oct 29, 2011 9:14 am
Hi Clarence,
I understand what you are saying and agree that we are rescued prior to the actual destruction. I think it is best portrayed here in scripture.
Zec 13:8 And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the LORD, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein.
Zec 13:9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The LORD is my God.
Here it says He will bring a third part through the fire as if they endure it under His protection. And then we have this also.
Mal 4:1 For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.
Mal 4:2 But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.
Mal 4:3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts.
The wicked will be burnt up and ye shall tread down the wicked for they will be ashes under your feet the day I do this. I just get a sense that we will be there as they are destroyed. Just as Noah and Lot were but protected from God while we stand through the fire. Anyway it will all be in a split second when we get to that point. Post-Wrath describes best what I see in the scriptures at least.
Peace,
Seeker
As to the Trumpets I would say they are completely within the 70th week as are the Vials and occur one following the other.The nature of the Vials Bowls are that they are SHALLOW and can be emptied quickly...and that their effects will be felt harshly and immediately, so though the possibility exists that we may be present, but more likely we will be Rescued just prior to their being poured out, thus in function only or change from mortality to Immortality could be said to be PRE-WRATH......
I understand what you are saying and agree that we are rescued prior to the actual destruction. I think it is best portrayed here in scripture.
Zec 13:8 And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the LORD, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein.
Zec 13:9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The LORD is my God.
Here it says He will bring a third part through the fire as if they endure it under His protection. And then we have this also.
Mal 4:1 For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.
Mal 4:2 But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.
Mal 4:3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts.
The wicked will be burnt up and ye shall tread down the wicked for they will be ashes under your feet the day I do this. I just get a sense that we will be there as they are destroyed. Just as Noah and Lot were but protected from God while we stand through the fire. Anyway it will all be in a split second when we get to that point. Post-Wrath describes best what I see in the scriptures at least.
Peace,
Seeker
Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.
So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,
So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,
- Seeker
- Posts: 1988
- Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 4:32 pm
Re: Post-Wrath
by Mrs. B on Mon Oct 31, 2011 12:08 pm
Post-Wrath.....
How are we kept?
in this end time?
Jesus said...
Luke 6:27....But I say unto you which hear.....Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you..
30...Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask them not again...
40...The disciple is not above his master: but every one that is perfect shall be as his master...
46...And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?
We must be a wise servant....
47....Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will show you to whom he is like...
48....He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock:
and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a Rock......Jesus is Our Rock....
Luke 17:32...Remember Lots's wife.
33...Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it..
34...I tell you in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.
36...Two women shall be grinding together; The one shall be taken, and the other left.
36...Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
37...And they answered and said untohim, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is...thither will The Eagles Be gathered Together....
Study Eagles......
Mrs. B
How are we kept?
in this end time?
Jesus said...
Luke 6:27....But I say unto you which hear.....Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you..
30...Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask them not again...
40...The disciple is not above his master: but every one that is perfect shall be as his master...
46...And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?
We must be a wise servant....
47....Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will show you to whom he is like...
48....He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock:
and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a Rock......Jesus is Our Rock....
Luke 17:32...Remember Lots's wife.
33...Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it..
34...I tell you in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.
36...Two women shall be grinding together; The one shall be taken, and the other left.
36...Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
37...And they answered and said untohim, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is...thither will The Eagles Be gathered Together....
Study Eagles......
Mrs. B
- Mrs. B
- Posts: 1911
- Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 1:19 pm
Re: Post-Wrath
by Mrs. B on Mon Oct 31, 2011 12:27 pm
Post-Wrath....
Ex. 19:4....Ye have seen what I did unto the Egyptians, and How I bare you on Eagles Wings, and brought you unto Myself...
5...Now therefore, If ye will Obey My Voice Indeed, and Keep MY COVENANT, then ye shall be a peculiar Treasure unto me Above All People: for all the earth is mine:
6...And ye shall be unto me A KINGDOM OF PRIESTS, AND An Holy Nation, These are the words which though shall speak unto the Children of Israel......(the Church today)
Isa. 40:31.....BUT they that wait upon the Lord shall Renew their strength;they shall mount up with wings as eagles.... they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk and not faint....
Luke 17:34....I tell you in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.
35///Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken and the other left.
36...Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left...
37...And they answered and said unto him....WHERE, Lord?
And he said unto them, Wheresoever the Body is, thither will the Eagles be Gathered Together......
We must Keep the Teachings of Jesus......
Luke 28:7....And shall not God avenge His Own Elect....Which Cry day and night unto him....though He Bear long with them?
8....I Tell you, That He will Avenge them speedily...Nevertheless when the Son of Man Cometh...Shell he find Faith on the Earth?
9...And he spake this parable unto Certain which Trusted in Themselves...that they were righteous, and despised others:
We Must Be Obedient to Jesus Teaching......deny self and give to others...
Mrs. B
Ex. 19:4....Ye have seen what I did unto the Egyptians, and How I bare you on Eagles Wings, and brought you unto Myself...
5...Now therefore, If ye will Obey My Voice Indeed, and Keep MY COVENANT, then ye shall be a peculiar Treasure unto me Above All People: for all the earth is mine:
6...And ye shall be unto me A KINGDOM OF PRIESTS, AND An Holy Nation, These are the words which though shall speak unto the Children of Israel......(the Church today)
Isa. 40:31.....BUT they that wait upon the Lord shall Renew their strength;they shall mount up with wings as eagles.... they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk and not faint....
Luke 17:34....I tell you in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.
35///Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken and the other left.
36...Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left...
37...And they answered and said unto him....WHERE, Lord?
And he said unto them, Wheresoever the Body is, thither will the Eagles be Gathered Together......
We must Keep the Teachings of Jesus......
Luke 28:7....And shall not God avenge His Own Elect....Which Cry day and night unto him....though He Bear long with them?
8....I Tell you, That He will Avenge them speedily...Nevertheless when the Son of Man Cometh...Shell he find Faith on the Earth?
9...And he spake this parable unto Certain which Trusted in Themselves...that they were righteous, and despised others:
We Must Be Obedient to Jesus Teaching......deny self and give to others...
Mrs. B
- Mrs. B
- Posts: 1911
- Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 1:19 pm
Re: Post-Wrath
by Tevye on Thu Nov 03, 2011 8:39 am
Mrs. B wrote:37...And they answered and said untohim, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is...thither will The Eagles Be gathered Together....
Study Eagles......
Excellent idea Mrs. B!
"...Where, Lord?"
...where the eagles gather, that's where the body will be...
Reminds me of the fish Christians used in the first century
a message within a message... Are we listening?
- Tevye
- Posts: 3938
- Joined: Sun May 14, 2006 5:39 pm
Re: Post-Wrath
by Tevye on Fri Nov 04, 2011 7:19 am
Even so will it be in the day when the Son of Man is revealed.
“In that day, he who is on the housetop, and his goods are in the house,
let him not come down to take them away. And likewise the one
who is in the field, let him not turn back. Remember Lot’s wife.
Whoever seeks to save his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life will preserve it.
I tell you, in that night there will be two men in one bed: the one will be taken
and the other will be left. Two women will be grinding together: the one will be taken
and the other left. Two men will be in the field: the one will be taken and the other left.”
And they answered and said to Him, “Where, Lord?”
So He said to them,
“Wherever the body is, there the eagles will be gathered together.”
Whoever seeks to save his life...
(to save the things he has, to hold on to his possesions)
(His home, his/her land and furnishings, car couch TV, etc...)
...will lose it.
Whoever loses his/her life...
(lets go of everthing they own, home and so on)
...will preserve it. (will survive)
(only when the actual time has come as seen in Matt. 24 below)
The disciples wanted to know
'okay so if we follow this directive and go
(away from what we have and own)
then where should we go?' "Where Lord?"
Where the body (of Christ?) is
(is) where the eagles gather together.
So, if this is what Yeshua was telling us in response to His followers
wanting to know where to go when the time comes, then where should we go?
Where do the eagles gather?
People who know what will happen on the day of abomination in Jerusalem
are told to flee, and as like Lot, do not look back (at their life/home they lived in)
those who alive at that time, the man of lawlessnes is revealed, are directed
to abandon whatever they are doing, and allow themselves to be taken to a new place
(here on earth) to endure through tribulation, until Christ appears in glory to gather them to Him.
So, ..."Where Lord?"
“Wherever the body is, there the eagles will be gathered together.”
Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’
spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand),
then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. Let him who is on the housetop not go down
to take anything out of his house. And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes.
Matthew 24
Where do the eagles gather?
Where will the 'body' be?
Many will flee, and many will stay behind
(or not be taken to the place where the eagles gather) they will be left behind, not at the rapture,
but because they will seek to preserve all they have gained in their life, their homes, their jobs, and so on.
(only when the appointed time has truly come)
But the faithful who have been listening to the word of the Lord, and to His directive for that day
will do as He instructed them, and continue to follow Him even through the darkness of tribulation.
To the place where the eagles gather together...
“In that day, he who is on the housetop, and his goods are in the house,
let him not come down to take them away. And likewise the one
who is in the field, let him not turn back. Remember Lot’s wife.
Whoever seeks to save his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life will preserve it.
I tell you, in that night there will be two men in one bed: the one will be taken
and the other will be left. Two women will be grinding together: the one will be taken
and the other left. Two men will be in the field: the one will be taken and the other left.”
And they answered and said to Him, “Where, Lord?”
So He said to them,
“Wherever the body is, there the eagles will be gathered together.”
Whoever seeks to save his life...
(to save the things he has, to hold on to his possesions)
(His home, his/her land and furnishings, car couch TV, etc...)
...will lose it.
Whoever loses his/her life...
(lets go of everthing they own, home and so on)
...will preserve it. (will survive)
(only when the actual time has come as seen in Matt. 24 below)
The disciples wanted to know
'okay so if we follow this directive and go
(away from what we have and own)
then where should we go?' "Where Lord?"
Where the body (of Christ?) is
(is) where the eagles gather together.
So, if this is what Yeshua was telling us in response to His followers
wanting to know where to go when the time comes, then where should we go?
Where do the eagles gather?
People who know what will happen on the day of abomination in Jerusalem
are told to flee, and as like Lot, do not look back (at their life/home they lived in)
those who alive at that time, the man of lawlessnes is revealed, are directed
to abandon whatever they are doing, and allow themselves to be taken to a new place
(here on earth) to endure through tribulation, until Christ appears in glory to gather them to Him.
So, ..."Where Lord?"
“Wherever the body is, there the eagles will be gathered together.”
Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’
spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand),
then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. Let him who is on the housetop not go down
to take anything out of his house. And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes.
Matthew 24
Where do the eagles gather?
Where will the 'body' be?
Many will flee, and many will stay behind
(or not be taken to the place where the eagles gather) they will be left behind, not at the rapture,
but because they will seek to preserve all they have gained in their life, their homes, their jobs, and so on.
(only when the appointed time has truly come)
But the faithful who have been listening to the word of the Lord, and to His directive for that day
will do as He instructed them, and continue to follow Him even through the darkness of tribulation.
To the place where the eagles gather together...
- Tevye
- Posts: 3938
- Joined: Sun May 14, 2006 5:39 pm
by Tevye on Fri Nov 04, 2011 7:53 am
"help me shut out the world, and listen, listen to You."
"Shut out the world" - ((listen to this song here))
"Shut out the world" - ((listen to this song here))
- Tevye
- Posts: 3938
- Joined: Sun May 14, 2006 5:39 pm
Re: Post-Wrath
by Mrs. B on Sat Nov 05, 2011 2:58 pm
Post-Wrath......
Exodus 19:4.....Ye have seen what I did unto the Egyptians, and How I BARE you on EAGLES' wings, and brought you unto Myself....5 Now therefore, If ye will obey my voice indeed, and Keep MY COVENANT, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is Mine: 6...And ye shall be unto me a Kingdom of Priests, and an Holy Nation...
Deut. 32:11...As an eagle stirreth up her nest, fluttereth over her young, spreadeth abroad her wings, taketh them, beareth them on her wings: 12...So the Lord alone did lead him, and there was no strange god with him.....
15..But Jeshurun waxed fat, and kicked:...16 They provoked him to Jealousy with strange gods, with abominations provoked they him to anger....
20...And he said, I will hide my face from them, I will see what their end shall be: for they are a very froward generation..children in whom is NO FAITH....28..FOR THEY ARE A NATION VOID OF COUNSEL, NEITHER IS THERE ANY UNDERSTANDING IN THEM....
If God judge Israel......will He not Judge the Church?
We have a Blood Covenant......The New Covenant by the blood of Jesus the Promise Seed.....
Rev. 12:14...And to the women were given two wings of a Great Eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is Nourished for a Time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent....
Jesus said....Matt. 24:28....For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together...
29....IMMEDIATELY, after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the mood shall give her light and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
42....Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour that your Lord doth come....44...Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not...the Son of man cometh...
Mrs. B
Exodus 19:4.....Ye have seen what I did unto the Egyptians, and How I BARE you on EAGLES' wings, and brought you unto Myself....5 Now therefore, If ye will obey my voice indeed, and Keep MY COVENANT, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is Mine: 6...And ye shall be unto me a Kingdom of Priests, and an Holy Nation...
Deut. 32:11...As an eagle stirreth up her nest, fluttereth over her young, spreadeth abroad her wings, taketh them, beareth them on her wings: 12...So the Lord alone did lead him, and there was no strange god with him.....
15..But Jeshurun waxed fat, and kicked:...16 They provoked him to Jealousy with strange gods, with abominations provoked they him to anger....
20...And he said, I will hide my face from them, I will see what their end shall be: for they are a very froward generation..children in whom is NO FAITH....28..FOR THEY ARE A NATION VOID OF COUNSEL, NEITHER IS THERE ANY UNDERSTANDING IN THEM....
If God judge Israel......will He not Judge the Church?
We have a Blood Covenant......The New Covenant by the blood of Jesus the Promise Seed.....
Rev. 12:14...And to the women were given two wings of a Great Eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is Nourished for a Time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent....
Jesus said....Matt. 24:28....For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together...
29....IMMEDIATELY, after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the mood shall give her light and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
42....Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour that your Lord doth come....44...Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not...the Son of man cometh...
Mrs. B
- Mrs. B
- Posts: 1911
- Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 1:19 pm
Re:
by burien1 on Sat Nov 05, 2011 3:32 pm
Tevye wrote:"help me shut out the world, and listen, listen to You."
"Shut out the world" - ((listen to this song here))
Beautiful song. Thanks !
Psalm 119:105; Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
-
burien1 - MODERATOR
- Posts: 7102
- Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2007 7:57 pm
by Tevye on Sat Nov 05, 2011 6:09 pm
You're welcome.
Pilgrim Radio deserves the credit...
they played it for me in the morning.
(well not just for me)
They're online at pilgrimradio.com
Pilgrim Radio deserves the credit...
they played it for me in the morning.
(well not just for me)
They're online at pilgrimradio.com
- Tevye
- Posts: 3938
- Joined: Sun May 14, 2006 5:39 pm
Re: Post-Wrath
by Seeker on Thu Nov 10, 2011 6:28 am
Hi Mrs. B,
The problem is that the eagle verse is not located near where they are told to flee. It is located further down in the chapter here.
Mat 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Mat 24:28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
It is after the coming of Jesus they are told to flee at the AOD 3 1/2 years earlier. If the eagle verse was related to the AOD and fleeing at that time the eagle verse would be included in that portion of scripture. It's not, it is after the coming of Jesus like lightning. A carcase is a dead body and eagles will eat carrion or carcases. Jesus gathers the birds to eat the flesh of kings when He arrives at Armageddon.
Rev 19:17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
Rev 19:18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
When Jesus returns to earth it is in flaming fire taking vengeance on the sinners (2Th1). There will be dead carcases that the eagles and other birds feast on after Jesus returns and destroys the sinners. The sinners are the first order of business upon the arrival of Jesus. He destroys them and the eagles feast on the carcases. We see the same thing in Ezekiel.
Eze 39:17 And, thou son of man, thus saith the Lord GOD; Speak unto every feathered fowl, and to every beast of the field, Assemble yourselves, and come; gather yourselves on every side to my sacrifice that I do sacrifice for you, even a great sacrifice upon the mountains of Israel, that ye may eat flesh, and drink blood.
Eze 39:18 Ye shall eat the flesh of the mighty, and drink the blood of the princes of the earth, of rams, of lambs, and of goats, of bullocks, all of them fatlings of Bashan.
Here they are again gathered to eat the flesh of kings upon the arrival of Jesus when He defeats Gog at Armageddon.
Luk 17:26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
Luk 17:27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
Luk 17:28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
Luk 17:29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
Luk 17:30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.
Luk 17:31 In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back.
Luk 17:32 Remember Lot's wife.
Luk 17:33 Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.
Luk 17:34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.
Luk 17:35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Luk 17:36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Luk 17:37 And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.
As in the days of Noah so will it be in the days of the Son of man. They lived normally until the day Noah entered the ark and the flood came and took them all away. The ones taken were the sinners not the saints. The saints are in the boat on earth during the wrath of the flood. They were not flown away to anywhere. It was the sinners that were taken. The flood came and took them all away. The flood didn't take Noah away it took the sinners.
The same in the case of Lot. The ones taken were the sinners they died in the fire. In that night one will be taken and one left. The ones that are left are the saints we can see that here in Matt 13.
Mat 13:28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?
Mat 13:29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.
Mat 13:30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.
Both groups grow together until the harvest and at the harvest the angels gather the tares first. The tares are the ones taken from among the wheat leaving the saints to inherit the kingdom after the tares are removed. We can see that is the case from the interpretation that we are given for this parable.
Mat 13:39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
Mat 13:40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
Mat 13:41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
Mat 13:42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
Mat 13:43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
In the interpretation that Jesus gives us we see that as the tares are gathered and burned so will it be at the end of the world. Jesus will send His angels to gather out of His kingdom all things that offend and them which do iniquity and cast them into the furnace of fire. Then will the righteous shine forth in the kingdom. The righteous don't shine until after the angels remove all things that offend.
Mat 13:47 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a net, that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind:
Mat 13:48 Which, when it was full, they drew to shore, and sat down, and gathered the good into vessels, but cast the bad away.
Mat 13:49 So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,
Mat 13:50 And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
One net was cast two groups bagged (good and bad). So will it be at the end of the world. The angels will come forth and sever the wicked from among the just. The wicked are the ones taken out of the group of just. Both groups must be present for the wicked to be removed from among the just. In all cases it is the wicked/tares/evil/sinners that are removed from the saints not the saints being removed from the sinners.
Peace,
Seeker
Many will flee, and many will stay behind
(or not be taken to the place where the eagles gather) they will be left behind, not at the rapture,
but because they will seek to preserve all they have gained in their life, their homes, their jobs, and so on.
(only when the appointed time has truly come)
But the faithful who have been listening to the word of the Lord, and to His directive for that day
will do as He instructed them, and continue to follow Him even through the darkness of tribulation.
To the place where the eagles gather together...
The problem is that the eagle verse is not located near where they are told to flee. It is located further down in the chapter here.
Mat 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Mat 24:28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
It is after the coming of Jesus they are told to flee at the AOD 3 1/2 years earlier. If the eagle verse was related to the AOD and fleeing at that time the eagle verse would be included in that portion of scripture. It's not, it is after the coming of Jesus like lightning. A carcase is a dead body and eagles will eat carrion or carcases. Jesus gathers the birds to eat the flesh of kings when He arrives at Armageddon.
Rev 19:17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
Rev 19:18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
When Jesus returns to earth it is in flaming fire taking vengeance on the sinners (2Th1). There will be dead carcases that the eagles and other birds feast on after Jesus returns and destroys the sinners. The sinners are the first order of business upon the arrival of Jesus. He destroys them and the eagles feast on the carcases. We see the same thing in Ezekiel.
Eze 39:17 And, thou son of man, thus saith the Lord GOD; Speak unto every feathered fowl, and to every beast of the field, Assemble yourselves, and come; gather yourselves on every side to my sacrifice that I do sacrifice for you, even a great sacrifice upon the mountains of Israel, that ye may eat flesh, and drink blood.
Eze 39:18 Ye shall eat the flesh of the mighty, and drink the blood of the princes of the earth, of rams, of lambs, and of goats, of bullocks, all of them fatlings of Bashan.
Here they are again gathered to eat the flesh of kings upon the arrival of Jesus when He defeats Gog at Armageddon.
Luk 17:26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
Luk 17:27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
Luk 17:28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
Luk 17:29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
Luk 17:30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.
Luk 17:31 In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back.
Luk 17:32 Remember Lot's wife.
Luk 17:33 Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.
Luk 17:34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.
Luk 17:35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Luk 17:36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Luk 17:37 And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.
As in the days of Noah so will it be in the days of the Son of man. They lived normally until the day Noah entered the ark and the flood came and took them all away. The ones taken were the sinners not the saints. The saints are in the boat on earth during the wrath of the flood. They were not flown away to anywhere. It was the sinners that were taken. The flood came and took them all away. The flood didn't take Noah away it took the sinners.
The same in the case of Lot. The ones taken were the sinners they died in the fire. In that night one will be taken and one left. The ones that are left are the saints we can see that here in Matt 13.
Mat 13:28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?
Mat 13:29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.
Mat 13:30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.
Both groups grow together until the harvest and at the harvest the angels gather the tares first. The tares are the ones taken from among the wheat leaving the saints to inherit the kingdom after the tares are removed. We can see that is the case from the interpretation that we are given for this parable.
Mat 13:39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
Mat 13:40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
Mat 13:41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
Mat 13:42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
Mat 13:43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
In the interpretation that Jesus gives us we see that as the tares are gathered and burned so will it be at the end of the world. Jesus will send His angels to gather out of His kingdom all things that offend and them which do iniquity and cast them into the furnace of fire. Then will the righteous shine forth in the kingdom. The righteous don't shine until after the angels remove all things that offend.
Mat 13:47 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a net, that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind:
Mat 13:48 Which, when it was full, they drew to shore, and sat down, and gathered the good into vessels, but cast the bad away.
Mat 13:49 So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,
Mat 13:50 And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
One net was cast two groups bagged (good and bad). So will it be at the end of the world. The angels will come forth and sever the wicked from among the just. The wicked are the ones taken out of the group of just. Both groups must be present for the wicked to be removed from among the just. In all cases it is the wicked/tares/evil/sinners that are removed from the saints not the saints being removed from the sinners.
Peace,
Seeker
Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.
So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,
So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,
- Seeker
- Posts: 1988
- Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 4:32 pm
Re: Post-Wrath
by Mrs. B on Thu Nov 10, 2011 2:54 pm
Post-Wrath.....
We have a New Covenant......a Blood Covenant
Eagles will not eat that which is dead......
They eat that which has the Blood......
The Life is in the Blood
without the shedding of blood there is No Life...
Jesus is our Blood Sacrifice.......The life is in the Blood....Jesus said Except a man eat my flesh and drink my blood
he has no part in me.......
We are saved by believing in the Blood Sacrifice....a new birth
being religious will not save us......being good....will not save us.....being a church member...a good church member will not save us.....we must be born again.....the blood must be applyed to our life.....we must be born again...
by the word and the Spirit......A New Birth....
Today....religion is dead....there is no life in dead religion
There is only Life in Jesus.....This is the New Blood Covenant.....
Jesus is at the Right Hand of God the Father and He is making Intercession for the Born Again Believer...
without the shedding of Blood there is no forgiveness of sin...
that is the false teaching today.....just being religious is not enough.....we must die and be raised new in Jesus...
Only Faith in Jesus and His Blood Sacrifice is salvation....
So many today are trusing in there church, or there own ideas of Chrisitanity...
Only Jesus Saves.....We Must totally trust in HIM
His Blood Sacrifice is accepted by the Father....and Jesus Now is seated at the Right Hand of the Father in Heaven
Making intercession for us the Believer...we must be washed in the Blood....we have a New Blood Covenant.
Without the shedding of Blood there is no salvation....We have a New Blood Covenant...
Jesus the only begotten of the Father......without the shedding of blood there is no salvation...
Eagles eat that which is alive. the blood.....So today we the believers must eat that which is alive..
The Living Word....not cold dead religion...without the shedding of Blood there is no life...Spiritual life
Mrs. B
We have a New Covenant......a Blood Covenant
Eagles will not eat that which is dead......
They eat that which has the Blood......
The Life is in the Blood
without the shedding of blood there is No Life...
Jesus is our Blood Sacrifice.......The life is in the Blood....Jesus said Except a man eat my flesh and drink my blood
he has no part in me.......
We are saved by believing in the Blood Sacrifice....a new birth
being religious will not save us......being good....will not save us.....being a church member...a good church member will not save us.....we must be born again.....the blood must be applyed to our life.....we must be born again...
by the word and the Spirit......A New Birth....
Today....religion is dead....there is no life in dead religion
There is only Life in Jesus.....This is the New Blood Covenant.....
Jesus is at the Right Hand of God the Father and He is making Intercession for the Born Again Believer...
without the shedding of Blood there is no forgiveness of sin...
that is the false teaching today.....just being religious is not enough.....we must die and be raised new in Jesus...
Only Faith in Jesus and His Blood Sacrifice is salvation....
So many today are trusing in there church, or there own ideas of Chrisitanity...
Only Jesus Saves.....We Must totally trust in HIM
His Blood Sacrifice is accepted by the Father....and Jesus Now is seated at the Right Hand of the Father in Heaven
Making intercession for us the Believer...we must be washed in the Blood....we have a New Blood Covenant.
Without the shedding of Blood there is no salvation....We have a New Blood Covenant...
Jesus the only begotten of the Father......without the shedding of blood there is no salvation...
Eagles eat that which is alive. the blood.....So today we the believers must eat that which is alive..
The Living Word....not cold dead religion...without the shedding of Blood there is no life...Spiritual life
Mrs. B
- Mrs. B
- Posts: 1911
- Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 1:19 pm
Re: Post-Wrath
by Mrs. B on Thu Nov 10, 2011 3:11 pm
Post-Wrath....
Hebrews 9:14....How much more shall the Blood of Christ, who through the Eternal Spirit offered Himself without...
SPOT offered Himself without spot to God..Purge Your conscience from dead works to Serve the Living God...
Read Hebrews chapter 14.....
15....And for this cause he is the mediator of the New Testament (or New Covenant) that by means of death, for the Redemption of the Transgressions that were under the First Testament (or the First Covenant) that they which are called might receive the promise of Eternal inheritance...18...Whereupon neither the first Testament (first covenant) without blood...(the first Blood Covenant...)
24....For Christ is not entered into the Holy Places made with hands....which are the figure of the True;
But into heaven itself, NOW to Appear in the presence of God for us..
We rember Jesus when we take communion....we take the wine, or the fruit of the Grape and we rember that Jesus
is our Blood Sacrifice and only in Him is Salvation......
not works
not self righteousness
But by His Blood are we saved..
Not Dead Religion...
Mrs. B
Hebrews 9:14....How much more shall the Blood of Christ, who through the Eternal Spirit offered Himself without...
SPOT offered Himself without spot to God..Purge Your conscience from dead works to Serve the Living God...
Read Hebrews chapter 14.....
15....And for this cause he is the mediator of the New Testament (or New Covenant) that by means of death, for the Redemption of the Transgressions that were under the First Testament (or the First Covenant) that they which are called might receive the promise of Eternal inheritance...18...Whereupon neither the first Testament (first covenant) without blood...(the first Blood Covenant...)
24....For Christ is not entered into the Holy Places made with hands....which are the figure of the True;
But into heaven itself, NOW to Appear in the presence of God for us..
We rember Jesus when we take communion....we take the wine, or the fruit of the Grape and we rember that Jesus
is our Blood Sacrifice and only in Him is Salvation......
not works
not self righteousness
But by His Blood are we saved..
Not Dead Religion...
Mrs. B
- Mrs. B
- Posts: 1911
- Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 1:19 pm
Re: Post-Wrath
by Mrs. B on Thu Nov 10, 2011 3:21 pm
Post-Wrath....
Eagles do not eat that which is dead.....they eat that which the blood is warm...or alive....
Matt. 13:38....The field is the world:
the good seed are the children of the Kingdom....but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
39....The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
40..As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world...
41...The Son of man shall send forth His angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
42...And shall cast them into a funace of fire: thereshall be wailing and gnashing of teeth...
43....Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in THE KINGDOM OF THEIR FATHER...Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
44...AGAIN, The Kingdom of Heaven is like unto treasure hid in a field....
45...Again, The Kingdom of heaven is like unto a Merchant...
47...Again the Kin gdom of Heaven is Like unto a New...
Jesus came Preaching....THE KINGDOM OF GOD IS AT HAND.....
49....SO SHALL IT BE AT THE END of this World: the Angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the Just,
50...And shall cast them into the furnace of fire:.....
Jesus is comparing the wise from the foolish....He is saperating his children from the wicked....the wise virgins and the foolish virgins.....
Mrs. B
Eagles do not eat that which is dead.....they eat that which the blood is warm...or alive....
Matt. 13:38....The field is the world:
the good seed are the children of the Kingdom....but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
39....The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
40..As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world...
41...The Son of man shall send forth His angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
42...And shall cast them into a funace of fire: thereshall be wailing and gnashing of teeth...
43....Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in THE KINGDOM OF THEIR FATHER...Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
44...AGAIN, The Kingdom of Heaven is like unto treasure hid in a field....
45...Again, The Kingdom of heaven is like unto a Merchant...
47...Again the Kin gdom of Heaven is Like unto a New...
Jesus came Preaching....THE KINGDOM OF GOD IS AT HAND.....
49....SO SHALL IT BE AT THE END of this World: the Angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the Just,
50...And shall cast them into the furnace of fire:.....
Jesus is comparing the wise from the foolish....He is saperating his children from the wicked....the wise virgins and the foolish virgins.....
Mrs. B
- Mrs. B
- Posts: 1911
- Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 1:19 pm
Re: Post-Wrath
by Seeker on Thu Nov 10, 2011 4:15 pm
Hi Mrs. B,
Yes they do.
To sever the wicked from among the just the just have to be there the day the wicked are removed. Both groups are there the day the sinners are removed. The sinners are removed when Jesus returns at the 6th seal. After the sinners are removed the saints are left to inherit the kingdom. Nowhere in scripture does it show the saints being raptured prior to the removal of the sinners.
Peace,
Seeker
Eagles do not eat that which is dead.....they eat that which the blood is warm...or alive....
Fishing on the Wing
Fish are the favored food of bald eagles, but they also eat ducks, rabbits, squirrels, opossums, and deer fawns. Whatever the prey, they use their incredible eyesight to spot a potential meal from high in the sky. Then they swoop down at high speed and grasp the victim in their strong talons. It's a spectacular sight to see a bald eagle pluck a fish from a lake's surface. Bald eagles eat carrion (or dead animals) found along roads or the banks of bodies of water. Sometimes they steal prey caught by other predators.
http://www.brookfieldzoo.org/pagegen/ht ... Bald+eagle
Although regional and seasonal differences in food habits exist, golden eagle prey consists mostly of small mammals such as jackrabbits, cottontails, prairie dogs, and ground squirrels. A variety of birds and reptiles also have been recorded as prey. Nesting pairs or concentrations of juvenile birds can be a major cause of predation on local game bird populations. Golden eagles also readily eat carrion.
Golden eagles sometimes attack large mammals; deer and pronghorns of all ages have been observed being attacked or killed by eagles. Records also exist of bighorn sheep, coyotes, bobcats, and foxes being killed. Occasionally, golden eagles kill calves, sheep, or goats. However, attacks on animals that weigh more than 30 to 40 pounds (14 to 18 kg) are uncommon. Where golden eagles prey on domestic animals, they usually take lambs and kids, but some become persistent predators of domestic livestock as large as 500 pounds (227 kg).
Bald eagles rely heavily on fish and carrion where available. They readily adapt, however, to preying on waterfowl, other birds, rabbits, and other small mammals. They also occasionally kill adult deer, pronghorns, and calves. At times, some may prey repeatedly on domestic sheep and goats, primarily young lambs and kids.
http://icwdm.org/handbook/birds/eagles.asp
Yes they do.
Jesus came Preaching....THE KINGDOM OF GOD IS AT HAND.....
49....SO SHALL IT BE AT THE END of this World: the Angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the Just,
50...And shall cast them into the furnace of fire:.....
Jesus is comparing the wise from the foolish....He is saperating his children from the wicked....the wise virgins and the foolish virgins.....
To sever the wicked from among the just the just have to be there the day the wicked are removed. Both groups are there the day the sinners are removed. The sinners are removed when Jesus returns at the 6th seal. After the sinners are removed the saints are left to inherit the kingdom. Nowhere in scripture does it show the saints being raptured prior to the removal of the sinners.
Peace,
Seeker
Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.
So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,
So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,
- Seeker
- Posts: 1988
- Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 4:32 pm
Re: Post-Wrath
by Mrs. B on Thu Nov 10, 2011 5:27 pm
Post-Wrath.....
I guess the problem is.......I don't see a Rapture as is taught today.....
I see the Ressurrection...
I Corin. 15:50....Now this I say brethren, that Flesh and Blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God:
neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
51....Behold, I shew you a Mystery;
We shall not all slelep,
but we shall all be changed,
52....In A Moment, in the twinkling of an eye.....AT THE LAST TRUMP;
FOR THE TRUMPET SHALL SOUND, AND THE DEAD SHALL BE RAISED INCORRUPTIBLE, AND we shall be changed.
53....For this Corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality...
54...So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruptio, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written....Death is swallowed up in victory.
55...So Death, where is thy sting? O Grave, Where is thy Victory?
56...The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law,
57...But thanks be to God, which giveth us the Victory through Our Lord Jesus Christ.
58...Therefore, My Beloved Brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.....
I Believe the Resurrection is what a lot of people call the rapture....
I believe that Many will be Kept during the Tribulation......many will be mortered....Many will willingly lay down there life for Jesus.....
Daniel 9:27....And He (Jesus) will confirm the (Blood Covenant) with many for one week....
and the Midst of the week (1250 day or there about) He (Jesus) shall cause the Sacrifice (the Blood Covenant we have with Him) the Sacrifice and Oblation (the Intercession or Prayers) to cease....(the door to heaven will be closed)
The Tin Virgins...Jesus said to the five foolish the door is closed....They knock but the door is closed) just like Noe entered the Ark and God closed the Door...when the Wrath is poured out the Door to salvation will be closed....
and for the Overspreading of Abomination...He Jesus will pour out the seven viols of wrath....He shall make it desolate...even until the Consummation, (the wedding)..... and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate(The Devil and his children...)
Mrs. B
I guess the problem is.......I don't see a Rapture as is taught today.....
I see the Ressurrection...
I Corin. 15:50....Now this I say brethren, that Flesh and Blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God:
neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
51....Behold, I shew you a Mystery;
We shall not all slelep,
but we shall all be changed,
52....In A Moment, in the twinkling of an eye.....AT THE LAST TRUMP;
FOR THE TRUMPET SHALL SOUND, AND THE DEAD SHALL BE RAISED INCORRUPTIBLE, AND we shall be changed.
53....For this Corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality...
54...So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruptio, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written....Death is swallowed up in victory.
55...So Death, where is thy sting? O Grave, Where is thy Victory?
56...The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law,
57...But thanks be to God, which giveth us the Victory through Our Lord Jesus Christ.
58...Therefore, My Beloved Brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.....
I Believe the Resurrection is what a lot of people call the rapture....
I believe that Many will be Kept during the Tribulation......many will be mortered....Many will willingly lay down there life for Jesus.....
Daniel 9:27....And He (Jesus) will confirm the (Blood Covenant) with many for one week....
and the Midst of the week (1250 day or there about) He (Jesus) shall cause the Sacrifice (the Blood Covenant we have with Him) the Sacrifice and Oblation (the Intercession or Prayers) to cease....(the door to heaven will be closed)
The Tin Virgins...Jesus said to the five foolish the door is closed....They knock but the door is closed) just like Noe entered the Ark and God closed the Door...when the Wrath is poured out the Door to salvation will be closed....
and for the Overspreading of Abomination...He Jesus will pour out the seven viols of wrath....He shall make it desolate...even until the Consummation, (the wedding)..... and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate(The Devil and his children...)
Mrs. B
- Mrs. B
- Posts: 1911
- Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 1:19 pm
Re: Post-Wrath
by Mrs. B on Thu Nov 10, 2011 5:41 pm
Post-Wrath....
Daniel 8:9.....And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land...10....And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them...11...Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the DAILY SACRIFICE was taken away, and the place of his sanctuary was cast down...12...And an host was given him against the Daily Sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prosspered....( this is the a/c and truth is cast down and untruth becomes more popular then the Truth....Jesus is the Truth so the a/c spirit is taught and the church falls away from the truth and they follow the a/c spirit...untruth...false teachers and doctron becomes more popular then the Truth...)
That is why Jesus warned about not being deceived.......we must be seekers of Truth.....I AM the Way, The Truth and the Life.......Jesus the only Way....
13.....Then I heard One Saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake....How Long shall be the Vision Concerning...THE DAILY SACRIFICE, and the Transgression of Desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be Trodden Under Foot?
14....And he said unto me...Unto Two Thousand and Three Hundred Days: THEN SHALL THE SANCTUARY BE CLEANSED....
2300 DAYS IS JUST A LITTLE LESS THEN 7 YEARS.......
Mrs. B
Daniel 8:9.....And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land...10....And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them...11...Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the DAILY SACRIFICE was taken away, and the place of his sanctuary was cast down...12...And an host was given him against the Daily Sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prosspered....( this is the a/c and truth is cast down and untruth becomes more popular then the Truth....Jesus is the Truth so the a/c spirit is taught and the church falls away from the truth and they follow the a/c spirit...untruth...false teachers and doctron becomes more popular then the Truth...)
That is why Jesus warned about not being deceived.......we must be seekers of Truth.....I AM the Way, The Truth and the Life.......Jesus the only Way....
13.....Then I heard One Saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake....How Long shall be the Vision Concerning...THE DAILY SACRIFICE, and the Transgression of Desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be Trodden Under Foot?
14....And he said unto me...Unto Two Thousand and Three Hundred Days: THEN SHALL THE SANCTUARY BE CLEANSED....
2300 DAYS IS JUST A LITTLE LESS THEN 7 YEARS.......
Mrs. B
- Mrs. B
- Posts: 1911
- Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 1:19 pm
Re: Post-Wrath
by Mrs. B on Thu Nov 10, 2011 6:01 pm
Post Wrath....
If the early church suffered......what makes the Amrica church think we will escape? Christians in all countries suffer persecution......now today.....we like to be deceived......we rather believe lies then Truth....
Now I believe in God's Keeping Power......Stephen chose to die....he willingly layed down His Life for Jesus...so many will lay down there life......Paul believed they could not kill him......he suffered many times unto death....but they could not kill him....because God KEPT him by His Faith...by his believing.....He was a Chosen Vessel.....So even today in many countries....christian die for the Faith.....and suffer.....Tribulation...
The World Tribulation will be a lot of what we are seeing today.....Just look at all wars in our Life Time.....
Jesus said...there will be wars and rummos of wars.....This generation shall not pass till all this is fulfilled...
I lived through wars...I've lived to see the Jews return to Jerusalem.....Jesus said....This Generation shall not pass away until all this is Fulfilleld.........We are the End Time Generation that shall not pass away until all this is fulfilled...
We've always thought we were so above persuction....or tribulation....
This is World Tribulation
Matt. 24:29....IMMERIATELY....(AFTER) after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30....AND THEN shall appear the sign of the Son of man in Heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the Earth Mourn,
and they shall see the Son of Man coming in the clouds of Heaven with Power and Great Glory..
31....And He shall send his angels with a Great Sound of A Trumpet....and they shall gather together His Elect from the four winds from one end of heaven to the other....
34....Verily I say unto you...This Generation Shall Not pass, till all these things be fulfilled....
35...Heaven and earth shall pass away...but my words shall not pass away...
Mrs. B
If the early church suffered......what makes the Amrica church think we will escape? Christians in all countries suffer persecution......now today.....we like to be deceived......we rather believe lies then Truth....
Now I believe in God's Keeping Power......Stephen chose to die....he willingly layed down His Life for Jesus...so many will lay down there life......Paul believed they could not kill him......he suffered many times unto death....but they could not kill him....because God KEPT him by His Faith...by his believing.....He was a Chosen Vessel.....So even today in many countries....christian die for the Faith.....and suffer.....Tribulation...
The World Tribulation will be a lot of what we are seeing today.....Just look at all wars in our Life Time.....
Jesus said...there will be wars and rummos of wars.....This generation shall not pass till all this is fulfilled...
I lived through wars...I've lived to see the Jews return to Jerusalem.....Jesus said....This Generation shall not pass away until all this is Fulfilleld.........We are the End Time Generation that shall not pass away until all this is fulfilled...
We've always thought we were so above persuction....or tribulation....
This is World Tribulation
Matt. 24:29....IMMERIATELY....(AFTER) after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30....AND THEN shall appear the sign of the Son of man in Heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the Earth Mourn,
and they shall see the Son of Man coming in the clouds of Heaven with Power and Great Glory..
31....And He shall send his angels with a Great Sound of A Trumpet....and they shall gather together His Elect from the four winds from one end of heaven to the other....
34....Verily I say unto you...This Generation Shall Not pass, till all these things be fulfilled....
35...Heaven and earth shall pass away...but my words shall not pass away...
Mrs. B
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Re: Post-Wrath
by Seeker on Thu Nov 10, 2011 6:14 pm
Hi Mrs. B,
1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
God brings those who have died in Christ with Him when He comes to rapture us. The rapture part is where we are changed in the twinkling of an eye. The dead in Christ rise first. When the dead rise that would be classified as a resurrection. So first we see the resurrection of the dead in Christ. And then we who are alive and remain. If we are alive we can't be resurrected because we aren't dead. We are changed into incorruptable but we are not resurrected because we were not dead to be resurrected. Those alive and remaining are what I call translated into their resurrection immortal bodies. They were never dead though so it couldn't be a resurrection. That's why I view it as a two part process. The resurrection followed by the rapture.
Not sure what you mean by the last part concerning the 2300 days.
Peace,
Seeker
I guess the problem is.......I don't see a Rapture as is taught today.....
I see the Ressurrection...
1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
God brings those who have died in Christ with Him when He comes to rapture us. The rapture part is where we are changed in the twinkling of an eye. The dead in Christ rise first. When the dead rise that would be classified as a resurrection. So first we see the resurrection of the dead in Christ. And then we who are alive and remain. If we are alive we can't be resurrected because we aren't dead. We are changed into incorruptable but we are not resurrected because we were not dead to be resurrected. Those alive and remaining are what I call translated into their resurrection immortal bodies. They were never dead though so it couldn't be a resurrection. That's why I view it as a two part process. The resurrection followed by the rapture.
13.....Then I heard One Saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake....How Long shall be the Vision Concerning...THE DAILY SACRIFICE, and the Transgression of Desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be Trodden Under Foot?
14....And he said unto me...Unto Two Thousand and Three Hundred Days: THEN SHALL THE SANCTUARY BE CLEANSED....
2300 DAYS IS JUST A LITTLE LESS THEN 7 YEARS.......
Mrs. B
Not sure what you mean by the last part concerning the 2300 days.
Peace,
Seeker
Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.
So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,
So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,
- Seeker
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Re: Post-Wrath
by Mrs. B on Thu Nov 10, 2011 6:33 pm
Post-Wrath....
Daniel 7:14....And there was given Him Dominion, and glory, and a Kingdom that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: His dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his Kingdom that which shall not be Destroyed...
Jesus is the Promise Seed....God promised in Gen.3 that the seed of woman would bruse the head of satan....The Jews looked for the seed, savior to come but When Jesus came they rejected him....The Promise Seed was for all Nations...not just the Jew....He came unto His own..and His Own received Him Not....But to as many as received Him to thm He Gave Power to become the The Sons of God.....Born Again....not by the flesh...but by the Spirit....
Jesus was to be born out of the Tribe of Juda.....God reveals to Daniel the Coming Seed...the savior of All the World..
Out of Abraham would come the promise seed who would Bless all Nations.....not just the Jew....Jesus came unto His own but His own received Him Not....So He said....Go into all the World and Preach this Gospel of the Kingdom of God..
Go to all nations......this Gospel is for the whole world....all who believe....and receive Him Become the children of God...Thy Kingdom Come....Thy will be done on earth as it is in Heaven.......We are waiting for the Kingdom to come on this earth......The Whole Earth will be filled with the Glory of the Knowledge of the Lord.....as the waters cover the world....
God gave Daniel Visions about the Kingdom and about Jesus the Promise Seed....
Thy Kingdom Come....Thy Will be Done...on Earth as it is In Heaven....
This has not been fufilled s of yet.....but is at the Door.....
Mrs.B
Daniel 7:14....And there was given Him Dominion, and glory, and a Kingdom that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: His dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his Kingdom that which shall not be Destroyed...
Jesus is the Promise Seed....God promised in Gen.3 that the seed of woman would bruse the head of satan....The Jews looked for the seed, savior to come but When Jesus came they rejected him....The Promise Seed was for all Nations...not just the Jew....He came unto His own..and His Own received Him Not....But to as many as received Him to thm He Gave Power to become the The Sons of God.....Born Again....not by the flesh...but by the Spirit....
Jesus was to be born out of the Tribe of Juda.....God reveals to Daniel the Coming Seed...the savior of All the World..
Out of Abraham would come the promise seed who would Bless all Nations.....not just the Jew....Jesus came unto His own but His own received Him Not....So He said....Go into all the World and Preach this Gospel of the Kingdom of God..
Go to all nations......this Gospel is for the whole world....all who believe....and receive Him Become the children of God...Thy Kingdom Come....Thy will be done on earth as it is in Heaven.......We are waiting for the Kingdom to come on this earth......The Whole Earth will be filled with the Glory of the Knowledge of the Lord.....as the waters cover the world....
God gave Daniel Visions about the Kingdom and about Jesus the Promise Seed....
Thy Kingdom Come....Thy Will be Done...on Earth as it is In Heaven....
This has not been fufilled s of yet.....but is at the Door.....
Mrs.B
- Mrs. B
- Posts: 1911
- Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 1:19 pm
Re: Post-Wrath
by Mrs. B on Thu Nov 10, 2011 6:51 pm
Post-Wrath.....
Daniel 7:15...I Daniel was grieved in my spirit in the midst of my body, and the vision of my head troubled me...
16....I came near unto one of them that stood by, and asked him The Truth of all this...So he told me, and made me Know the Interpertation of the things.....17....These Great Beast, which are four, are four kings, which shall Arise out of the Earth...18....BUT THE SAINTS OF THE MOST HIGH SHALL TAKE THE KINGDOM... and possess the Kingdom forever, even for ever....
Satan came to Jesus....He Tempted Him......satan showed Jesus all the Kingdoms of the Earth....and said...you bow down and worship me and I will give all these kingdoms to you.....This was a Temptation....Jesus you don't have to go through the cross...just bow down and worship me and I'll Give them to you.............If you can understand....Adam gave all his power as God's man to satan when he sin...or fell into temptation....Jesus is call the Second Adam......but Jesus never sin....so He took back the power that Adam lost and has given it to us the Believer through the Church....
19.....Then I (Daniel) would know the Truth of the Fourth Beast...which was diverse from the others....
The fourth beast is satan or a/c...20...Alnd of the Ten horns that were in his hand....J(this is also in Rev. ten horns)
Daniel 7:20.....And of the ten horns that were in his head, and of the other which came up..and before whom three fell; even of that horn that had eyes, and a mouth that spake very great things, whose look was more stout thatn his fellows...21...I beheld and the same horn made War With the Saints, and prevailed against them......
22...Until the Ancient of Days came, and Judgment was given to THE SAINTS OF THE MOST HIGH: AND THE TIME CAME THAT THE SAINTS POSESSSSD THE KINGDOM.......
Mrs. B
Daniel 7:15...I Daniel was grieved in my spirit in the midst of my body, and the vision of my head troubled me...
16....I came near unto one of them that stood by, and asked him The Truth of all this...So he told me, and made me Know the Interpertation of the things.....17....These Great Beast, which are four, are four kings, which shall Arise out of the Earth...18....BUT THE SAINTS OF THE MOST HIGH SHALL TAKE THE KINGDOM... and possess the Kingdom forever, even for ever....
Satan came to Jesus....He Tempted Him......satan showed Jesus all the Kingdoms of the Earth....and said...you bow down and worship me and I will give all these kingdoms to you.....This was a Temptation....Jesus you don't have to go through the cross...just bow down and worship me and I'll Give them to you.............If you can understand....Adam gave all his power as God's man to satan when he sin...or fell into temptation....Jesus is call the Second Adam......but Jesus never sin....so He took back the power that Adam lost and has given it to us the Believer through the Church....
19.....Then I (Daniel) would know the Truth of the Fourth Beast...which was diverse from the others....
The fourth beast is satan or a/c...20...Alnd of the Ten horns that were in his hand....J(this is also in Rev. ten horns)
Daniel 7:20.....And of the ten horns that were in his head, and of the other which came up..and before whom three fell; even of that horn that had eyes, and a mouth that spake very great things, whose look was more stout thatn his fellows...21...I beheld and the same horn made War With the Saints, and prevailed against them......
22...Until the Ancient of Days came, and Judgment was given to THE SAINTS OF THE MOST HIGH: AND THE TIME CAME THAT THE SAINTS POSESSSSD THE KINGDOM.......
Mrs. B
- Mrs. B
- Posts: 1911
- Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 1:19 pm
Re: Post-Wrath
by Mrs. B on Thu Nov 10, 2011 7:11 pm
Post-Wrath....
8:9...And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land..10....And it waxed Great...even to the host of Heaven; and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them....11Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away...and the place of his sanctuary was cast down...12...Alnd an host was Given Him against the Daily Sacrifice by reason of Transgression, and it cast down the Truth to the Ground; and it Practised, and Prospered...
13....THEN I HEARD ONE SAINT SPEAKEING, AND another said unto that certain saint which spake, HOW LONG shall be the vision Concerning THE DAILY SACRIFICE, AND THE TRANSGRESSION of DESOLATION...to give both the Sanctuary and the Host to be Trodden under foot??????
14....And He said unto me.....UNTO TWO THOUSAND AND THREE HUNDRED DAYS: THEN SHALL THE SANCTUARY BE CLEANSED.......
2300 days.....
The devil's number of days is 2300 days......
but in the midst of the week....shall the sacrifice and the oblation
23.....And in the latter time of their Kingdom.....(in the end of the end in our day) when the Transgressors are come to the full....(when our sins are full...)a king (a/c) of fierce countenance and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up..
24...And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practice, and shall destroy the MIGHTY AND THE HOLT PEOPLE...25...And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against against the prince of princes; But he shall be broken without hand...
Mrs. B
8:9...And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land..10....And it waxed Great...even to the host of Heaven; and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them....11Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away...and the place of his sanctuary was cast down...12...Alnd an host was Given Him against the Daily Sacrifice by reason of Transgression, and it cast down the Truth to the Ground; and it Practised, and Prospered...
13....THEN I HEARD ONE SAINT SPEAKEING, AND another said unto that certain saint which spake, HOW LONG shall be the vision Concerning THE DAILY SACRIFICE, AND THE TRANSGRESSION of DESOLATION...to give both the Sanctuary and the Host to be Trodden under foot??????
14....And He said unto me.....UNTO TWO THOUSAND AND THREE HUNDRED DAYS: THEN SHALL THE SANCTUARY BE CLEANSED.......
2300 days.....
The devil's number of days is 2300 days......
but in the midst of the week....shall the sacrifice and the oblation
23.....And in the latter time of their Kingdom.....(in the end of the end in our day) when the Transgressors are come to the full....(when our sins are full...)a king (a/c) of fierce countenance and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up..
24...And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practice, and shall destroy the MIGHTY AND THE HOLT PEOPLE...25...And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against against the prince of princes; But he shall be broken without hand...
Mrs. B
- Mrs. B
- Posts: 1911
- Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 1:19 pm
Re: Post-Wrath
by Mrs. B on Thu Nov 10, 2011 7:47 pm
Posts-Wrath....
Paul Wrote...
I Thess. 2:3...Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall (the day of the Lord) not come Except there come a falling away first...and THAT MAN OF SIN BE REVEALED...THE SON OF PERDITION...4..Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God....or that is woshippedl so that he as God sitteth in the Temple of God, shewing himself that he is God....7..For the Mystery of Iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way....8..And then shall that Wicked be Revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the Spirit of His Mouth, and shall destroy with the Brightness of His Coming...9..Even HIM, Whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders...10..And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved...11..And for this cause God shall send them Strong Delusion, that they should believe a lie: ...12...That they all might be ****** who belielve not the truth..but have pleasure in unrighteousness......
Daniel 7:25...And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and THEY SHALL BE GIVEN INTO HIS HAND UNTIL A TIME AND TIMES AND THE DIVIDING OF TIME...
27....And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the Kingdom Under the Whole Heaven, shall be given to the people of the Most High...Whose KINGDOM IS AN EVERLASTING KINGDOM ....and all dominions shall serve and obey him..
The End of the End....Dan.8:13...Then I heard One Saint Speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake...How long shall be the Vision concerning the Daily Sacrifice and the host to be trodden under foot? 14...and he said unto me....Unto Two Thousand and Three hundred days; then shall the Sanctuary be cleansed....
The end will be 7 years....but in the midst the sacrifice and oblation will cease....when our sins are full...World Judgment comes.....
Mrs. B
Paul Wrote...
I Thess. 2:3...Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall (the day of the Lord) not come Except there come a falling away first...and THAT MAN OF SIN BE REVEALED...THE SON OF PERDITION...4..Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God....or that is woshippedl so that he as God sitteth in the Temple of God, shewing himself that he is God....7..For the Mystery of Iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way....8..And then shall that Wicked be Revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the Spirit of His Mouth, and shall destroy with the Brightness of His Coming...9..Even HIM, Whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders...10..And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved...11..And for this cause God shall send them Strong Delusion, that they should believe a lie: ...12...That they all might be ****** who belielve not the truth..but have pleasure in unrighteousness......
Daniel 7:25...And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and THEY SHALL BE GIVEN INTO HIS HAND UNTIL A TIME AND TIMES AND THE DIVIDING OF TIME...
27....And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the Kingdom Under the Whole Heaven, shall be given to the people of the Most High...Whose KINGDOM IS AN EVERLASTING KINGDOM ....and all dominions shall serve and obey him..
The End of the End....Dan.8:13...Then I heard One Saint Speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake...How long shall be the Vision concerning the Daily Sacrifice and the host to be trodden under foot? 14...and he said unto me....Unto Two Thousand and Three hundred days; then shall the Sanctuary be cleansed....
The end will be 7 years....but in the midst the sacrifice and oblation will cease....when our sins are full...World Judgment comes.....
Mrs. B
- Mrs. B
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Re: Post-Wrath
by GodsStudent on Thu Nov 10, 2011 8:33 pm
Hi Mrs. B and Seeker: I am going to have to cut and paste this entire thread so that I can thoroughly review it. Thank you so much that you have been willing to take to time to make so many contributions here.
Speaking on the subject of a study in the eagles, at some point, someone pointed out an article to me and I found it most fascinating. The problem is, I don't have as many years in scripture as some, and so my discernment is limited to my gut. I elected to save this article as I wanted to revisit it again to test it. It is a most fascinating study on the subject of the eagles scriptures and watching them, and I wanted to share and also get any feedback you might have. Its worth the read and time needed to make it.
http://www.oasischristianchurch.org/air ... _wings.pdf
Speaking on the subject of a study in the eagles, at some point, someone pointed out an article to me and I found it most fascinating. The problem is, I don't have as many years in scripture as some, and so my discernment is limited to my gut. I elected to save this article as I wanted to revisit it again to test it. It is a most fascinating study on the subject of the eagles scriptures and watching them, and I wanted to share and also get any feedback you might have. Its worth the read and time needed to make it.
http://www.oasischristianchurch.org/air ... _wings.pdf
- GodsStudent
- Supporting Member
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Re: Post-Wrath
by Mrs. B on Fri Nov 11, 2011 6:12 am
Post Wrath.....
When Jesus returns......if it were today.....it cannot be today...because the a/c has to be revealed and because Jesus will destroy him when He comes.....
if we are alive we will be changed....in the moment....in the twinkle of the eye.......and all the dead in Christ belielvers will come out of the grave and we all together go up to meet Him in the air....This is the first Ressurrection....
The second ressurrection is after the 1000 years.....This is the Great White Throne Judgment....at the end of the thousand years.......Only the believes.....and I believe that this goes back even to Noe and the flood.....all men who by faith walked with God and were looking forward to the Promise Seed that God made back in the Garden will be ressurrection....and will rule and reign on this earth for a thousand yeas......with Jesus......
Who did Jesus Reveal Himself to when he went into the Heart of the Earth during the three days He was in the Grave....
It was Abraham and all the seed who by Faith look for the Promise Seed Jesus.....He Revealed Himself to them and they now are with Him...
The second ressurrection is the unjust.....
You see....when we are born again....born of the word and the spirit.....we have entered into eternal life.....We are made alive in Him, Jesus
Jesus said.....He that belielveth in me shall never die.....our bodies go back to the earth.....but we are alive in Him and look forward to the first Ressurrection with our New Bodies......We are made alive by His Holy Spirit that lives in us....
Mrs. B
When Jesus returns......if it were today.....it cannot be today...because the a/c has to be revealed and because Jesus will destroy him when He comes.....
if we are alive we will be changed....in the moment....in the twinkle of the eye.......and all the dead in Christ belielvers will come out of the grave and we all together go up to meet Him in the air....This is the first Ressurrection....
The second ressurrection is after the 1000 years.....This is the Great White Throne Judgment....at the end of the thousand years.......Only the believes.....and I believe that this goes back even to Noe and the flood.....all men who by faith walked with God and were looking forward to the Promise Seed that God made back in the Garden will be ressurrection....and will rule and reign on this earth for a thousand yeas......with Jesus......
Who did Jesus Reveal Himself to when he went into the Heart of the Earth during the three days He was in the Grave....
It was Abraham and all the seed who by Faith look for the Promise Seed Jesus.....He Revealed Himself to them and they now are with Him...
The second ressurrection is the unjust.....
You see....when we are born again....born of the word and the spirit.....we have entered into eternal life.....We are made alive in Him, Jesus
Jesus said.....He that belielveth in me shall never die.....our bodies go back to the earth.....but we are alive in Him and look forward to the first Ressurrection with our New Bodies......We are made alive by His Holy Spirit that lives in us....
Mrs. B
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Re: Post-Wrath
by Exit40 on Fri Nov 11, 2011 6:25 am
Hi GS. Link is broken, can you fix it ?
God Bless You
David
God Bless You
David
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God
T'was Grace that taught my heart to fear.
And Grace, my fears relieved.
How precious did that Grace appear
The hour I first believed.
T'was Grace that taught my heart to fear.
And Grace, my fears relieved.
How precious did that Grace appear
The hour I first believed.
-
Exit40 - Supporting Member
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Re: Post-Wrath
by GodsStudent on Fri Nov 11, 2011 12:06 pm
Hi David: Hum? My computer still gets the link to open the article right up, but maybe I am not doing it right. Try this:
http://www.answersinrevelation.org/
The above is a link to the main website. The article I posted a link to is called "Flight of the watching ones." Please try that one.
http://www.answersinrevelation.org/
The above is a link to the main website. The article I posted a link to is called "Flight of the watching ones." Please try that one.
- GodsStudent
- Supporting Member
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Re: Post-Wrath
by burien1 on Fri Nov 11, 2011 12:47 pm
The original link works for me. Takes a bit longer because it is a link to a pdf. 
Psalm 119:105; Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
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Re: Post-Wrath
by Exit40 on Sun Nov 13, 2011 7:50 am
AIR opened up fine, but couldn't get the article to open . Sooo
Couldn't get any article to open, must be my computer
God Bless You
David
Couldn't get any article to open, must be my computer
God Bless You
David
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God
T'was Grace that taught my heart to fear.
And Grace, my fears relieved.
How precious did that Grace appear
The hour I first believed.
T'was Grace that taught my heart to fear.
And Grace, my fears relieved.
How precious did that Grace appear
The hour I first believed.
-
Exit40 - Supporting Member
- Posts: 6057
- Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 6:46 am
Re: Post-Wrath
by GodsStudent on Mon Nov 14, 2011 6:51 pm
hehe. Try going to the website "answers in revelation dot org" from your web browser??? The name of the pdf article I reference here is listed on the left side list and it's called "Flight of the watching ones."- GodsStudent
- Supporting Member
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Re: Post-Wrath
by Exit40 on Tue Nov 15, 2011 6:28 am
I've tried everything I can think of, still no results. Now every one gets to know but me. From what I can gather, that is the point of the article, it explains where we are to go during the trib for our protection ? Could you copy/paste this in an email to me ?
God Bless
David
Now every one gets to know but me. From what I can gather, that is the point of the article, it explains where we are to go during the trib for our protection ? Could you copy/paste this in an email to me ?God Bless
David
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God
T'was Grace that taught my heart to fear.
And Grace, my fears relieved.
How precious did that Grace appear
The hour I first believed.
T'was Grace that taught my heart to fear.
And Grace, my fears relieved.
How precious did that Grace appear
The hour I first believed.
-
Exit40 - Supporting Member
- Posts: 6057
- Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 6:46 am
Re: Post-Wrath
by Seeker on Tue Nov 15, 2011 12:51 pm
The whole premise of being rescued out away from the wrath does not fit the Post-Wrath perspective. We are protected but not removed from the wrath. It goes back to the first post of this whole thread.
Mat 13:47 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a net, that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind:
Mat 13:48 Which, when it was full, they drew to shore, and sat down, and gathered the good into vessels, but cast the bad away.
Mat 13:49 So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,
We are told that at the end of the world the angels severe the wicked from among the just. The wicked and the just are together at the point of the removal of the wicked or they could not be severed from "among" the just.
Mat 13:28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?
Mat 13:29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.
Mat 13:30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.
Both are to grow together until the harvest (end of the world). At the time of the harvest the tares are removed first. Both groups together until the tares are removed.
Zec 13:8 And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the LORD, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein.
Zec 13:9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The LORD is my God.
A third part go through the fire. No hint of being removed from the fire. God is more than capable of protecting us through the wrath. In Egypt they painted blood on their entrances to their homes and were protected while the plagues raged about them. There is no scripture that indicates we are removed from the wrath. Both grow together until the harvest and at the harvest the tares are removed first leaving the wheat to inherit the kingdom.
Mat 13:41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
Mat 13:42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
Mat 13:43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
Peace,
Seeker
Mat 13:47 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a net, that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind:
Mat 13:48 Which, when it was full, they drew to shore, and sat down, and gathered the good into vessels, but cast the bad away.
Mat 13:49 So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,
We are told that at the end of the world the angels severe the wicked from among the just. The wicked and the just are together at the point of the removal of the wicked or they could not be severed from "among" the just.
Mat 13:28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?
Mat 13:29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.
Mat 13:30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.
Both are to grow together until the harvest (end of the world). At the time of the harvest the tares are removed first. Both groups together until the tares are removed.
Zec 13:8 And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the LORD, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein.
Zec 13:9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The LORD is my God.
A third part go through the fire. No hint of being removed from the fire. God is more than capable of protecting us through the wrath. In Egypt they painted blood on their entrances to their homes and were protected while the plagues raged about them. There is no scripture that indicates we are removed from the wrath. Both grow together until the harvest and at the harvest the tares are removed first leaving the wheat to inherit the kingdom.
Mat 13:41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
Mat 13:42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
Mat 13:43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
Peace,
Seeker
Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.
So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,
So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,
- Seeker
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- Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 4:32 pm
Re: Post-Wrath
by GodsStudent on Tue Nov 15, 2011 7:30 pm
Hi Seeker: I have lots of questions of your perspective, but to be sure you haven't covered them in this thread, I will go back and study the thread to see if my questions have already been answered here. Thanks for your response. Lisa
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Re: Post-Wrath
by Tevye on Wed Nov 16, 2011 5:47 am
Seeker wrote:Hi Mrs. B,Many will flee, and many will stay behind
(or not be taken to the place where the eagles gather) they will be left behind, not at the rapture,
but because they will seek to preserve all they have gained in their life, their homes, their jobs, and so on.
(only when the appointed time has truly come)
But the faithful who have been listening to the word of the Lord, and to His directive for that day
will do as He instructed them, and continue to follow Him even through the darkness of tribulation.
To the place where the eagles gather together...
The problem is that the eagle verse is not located near where they are told to flee.
Hello Seeker, I'm actually Tevye
what you quoted was from me, not Mrs. B.
I disagree with your assessment of the message
I believe the Lord Yeshua was giving us
a message that we would understand,
in the heat of the moment, just when it will be needed the most.
...(inside of the Great Tribulation)
What I was referencing was from Luke chapter 17
and then tying it back to the message of Matthew 24.
In Luke chapter 17 the statement about the eagles
comes at a point when the disciples ask “Where, Lord?”
and He replies...
--------------------------- "Where the eagles gather, that's where the body will be."
or in Matthew chapter 24 (KJV)
"Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together."
So it is valid, and we can look over to Matthew 24 and know that He was speaking of a where for them there as well.
Yes that is true,Seeker wrote:The problem is that the eagle verse is not located near where they are told to flee. It is located further down in the chapter here.
Mat 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Mat 24:28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together
but notice the placement of the message of the eagles gathering
and where the body will be in Matthew 24 is:
The message of the eagles in Matthew chapter 24 is“Therefore if they say to you, ‘Look, He is in the desert!’ do not go out; or ‘Look, He is in the inner rooms!’ do not believe it. 27 For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 28 For wherever the carcass is, there the eagles will be gathered together.
The Coming of the Son of Man
29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
...after the appearing of false prophets and just prior to the appearing of the sign of the coming of the Lord.
Right in the midst of when the body of Christ - will be in the heat of the Great Tribulation.
Are we listening to the Lord, or only setting His message aside and will miss the blessing of a very helpful directive?
"I Will Be Free" - Cindy Morgan - (video link)
Yeshua is our shepherd and will continue to lead us by His word in that day, when we will need it the most.
- Tevye
- Posts: 3938
- Joined: Sun May 14, 2006 5:39 pm
Re: Post-Wrath
by Mrs. B on Wed Nov 16, 2011 6:19 am
Post-Wrath...
There is a difference between Tribulation and Wrath......
Tribulation causes us to grow......tribulations is troubles.....
God allows to go through tribulations to cause us to grow.....to cause us to Turn to Him and seek Him for a deeper
relation......
We may loose our homes....but Jesus will teach us that He is our dwelling Place....ect....we could go on and on about troubles.....Behold you shal have Tribulations but be of good cheer I have over come the world...
We have to look to Jesus....Each one must look to Him.....He is our Keeper and deliver
and He will not allow us to be tempted or tested more then we are able......
You can totaly trust Him....I will never leave you nor forsake you...
Paul is a good example of God's keeping Power.......Jesus will come to each one of us In the Form of Our Need...
healig.....money....job....housing....what ever
Now Wrath is different...
We as believers will not be in the Wrath.....God's Wrath
Wrath is different from tribulations...
We escape God's Wrath.......His Great Indignation
Only those who are disobedient will suffer the wrath..
Do you spank your childern that are obedient????? No
Only those that disobey.....but the spanking is for there good.....and it is not in wrath....but out of love...
teaching them to be obedient....
The Wrath is to the World.....and the false religions who believe a lie...
But we who follow Jesus...we Walk in Truth.....We live by the Living Word and we walk in Obedience...
We are in the World but we are not of this World...
Noe for example obeyed God the Father and prepared an Ark.....so we are obedient Children and we are Kept...
not by our rightiousness but by our obedience....
Mrs. B
There is a difference between Tribulation and Wrath......
Tribulation causes us to grow......tribulations is troubles.....
God allows to go through tribulations to cause us to grow.....to cause us to Turn to Him and seek Him for a deeper
relation......
We may loose our homes....but Jesus will teach us that He is our dwelling Place....ect....we could go on and on about troubles.....Behold you shal have Tribulations but be of good cheer I have over come the world...
We have to look to Jesus....Each one must look to Him.....He is our Keeper and deliver
and He will not allow us to be tempted or tested more then we are able......
You can totaly trust Him....I will never leave you nor forsake you...
Paul is a good example of God's keeping Power.......Jesus will come to each one of us In the Form of Our Need...
healig.....money....job....housing....what ever
Now Wrath is different...
We as believers will not be in the Wrath.....God's Wrath
Wrath is different from tribulations...
We escape God's Wrath.......His Great Indignation
Only those who are disobedient will suffer the wrath..
Do you spank your childern that are obedient????? No
Only those that disobey.....but the spanking is for there good.....and it is not in wrath....but out of love...
teaching them to be obedient....
The Wrath is to the World.....and the false religions who believe a lie...
But we who follow Jesus...we Walk in Truth.....We live by the Living Word and we walk in Obedience...
We are in the World but we are not of this World...
Noe for example obeyed God the Father and prepared an Ark.....so we are obedient Children and we are Kept...
not by our rightiousness but by our obedience....
Mrs. B
- Mrs. B
- Posts: 1911
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Re: Post-Wrath
by Seeker on Wed Nov 16, 2011 6:32 am
Hi Tevye,
Ooops must have been in a hurry.
Mat 24:37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Mat 24:38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
Mat 24:39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Mat 24:40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Mat 24:41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Who was taken away? They knew not until the flood came and took them all away so will the coming of Jesus be. Two are in the field and one is taken. The ones taken in the example of Noah were the sinners. The ones taken from the field are the sinners not the saints. The context of the two in the field tells us which group is taken. We can know that the ones taken were destroyed not protected from the Luke example.
Luk 17:26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
Luk 17:27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
We have the exact same example of Noah compared to the return of Jesus. They were taken in Matt 24 and destroyed in Luke. The ones taken are the sinners just as the net parable tells us.
Mat 13:47 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a net, that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind:
Mat 13:48 Which, when it was full, they drew to shore, and sat down, and gathered the good into vessels, but cast the bad away.
Mat 13:49 So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,
Mat 13:50 And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
The wicked are removed from among the just as happened in the days of Noah. The ones taken are the sinners not the saints as the text clearly shows. That is compared to what it will be like when Jesus returns. The eagles/vultures gather to feed on the carcasses just as we see in Rev 19.
Rev 19:17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
Peace,
Seeker
Hello Seeker, I'm actually Tevye
what you quoted was from me, not Mrs. B.
I disagree with your assessment of the message
I believe the Lord Yeshua was giving us
a message that we would understand,
in the heat of the moment, just when it will be needed the most.
...(inside of the Great Tribulation)
Ooops must have been in a hurry.
What I was referencing was from Luke chapter 17
and then tying it back to the message of Matthew 24.
In Luke chapter 17 the statement about the eagles
comes at a point when the disciples ask “Where, Lord?”
and He replies...
--------------------------- "Where the eagles gather, that's where the body will be."
or in Matthew chapter 24 (KJV)
"Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together."
So it is valid, and we can look over to Matthew 24 and know that He was speaking of a where for them there as well.
Mat 24:37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Mat 24:38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
Mat 24:39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Mat 24:40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Mat 24:41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Who was taken away? They knew not until the flood came and took them all away so will the coming of Jesus be. Two are in the field and one is taken. The ones taken in the example of Noah were the sinners. The ones taken from the field are the sinners not the saints. The context of the two in the field tells us which group is taken. We can know that the ones taken were destroyed not protected from the Luke example.
Luk 17:26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
Luk 17:27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
We have the exact same example of Noah compared to the return of Jesus. They were taken in Matt 24 and destroyed in Luke. The ones taken are the sinners just as the net parable tells us.
Mat 13:47 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a net, that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind:
Mat 13:48 Which, when it was full, they drew to shore, and sat down, and gathered the good into vessels, but cast the bad away.
Mat 13:49 So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,
Mat 13:50 And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
The wicked are removed from among the just as happened in the days of Noah. The ones taken are the sinners not the saints as the text clearly shows. That is compared to what it will be like when Jesus returns. The eagles/vultures gather to feed on the carcasses just as we see in Rev 19.
Rev 19:17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
Peace,
Seeker
Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.
So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,
So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,
- Seeker
- Posts: 1988
- Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 4:32 pm
Re: Post-Wrath
by Seeker on Wed Nov 16, 2011 6:43 am
Hi Mrs. B,
Being in the wrath and affected by the wrath are two different things Mrs. B. Was Noah in the wrath or not? Was his boat floating on the waters of wrath that killed all those outside of the boat?
1Th 5:1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
1Th 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
1Th 5:3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
1Th 5:4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
Are the brethren there the day of sudden destruction? If not why are they told that the day the sinners experience sudden destruction won't overtake them as a thief. It couldn't overtake them as a thief if they were not there to experience it.
Isa 26:20 Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.
Isa 26:21 For, behold, the LORD cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.
They are to enter their chambers, shut the door, and hide themselves until the indignation passes over. For the Lord comes out of His place to punish the inhabitants of earth. They aren't taken anywhere they are to go to their chambers and shut the door just as we see in Egypt when the Lord killed the first born of Egypt and spared the first born of Israel. They went nowhere during the wrath but their own homes. The God that created the universe and all that is in it in 7 days can certainly protect His people just as He did in Egypt.
Peace,
Seeker
Now Wrath is different...
We as believers will not be in the Wrath.....God's Wrath
Wrath is different from tribulations...
We escape God's Wrath.......His Great Indignation
Only those who are disobedient will suffer the wrath..
Do you spank your childern that are obedient????? No
Being in the wrath and affected by the wrath are two different things Mrs. B. Was Noah in the wrath or not? Was his boat floating on the waters of wrath that killed all those outside of the boat?
1Th 5:1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
1Th 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
1Th 5:3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
1Th 5:4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
Are the brethren there the day of sudden destruction? If not why are they told that the day the sinners experience sudden destruction won't overtake them as a thief. It couldn't overtake them as a thief if they were not there to experience it.
Isa 26:20 Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.
Isa 26:21 For, behold, the LORD cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.
They are to enter their chambers, shut the door, and hide themselves until the indignation passes over. For the Lord comes out of His place to punish the inhabitants of earth. They aren't taken anywhere they are to go to their chambers and shut the door just as we see in Egypt when the Lord killed the first born of Egypt and spared the first born of Israel. They went nowhere during the wrath but their own homes. The God that created the universe and all that is in it in 7 days can certainly protect His people just as He did in Egypt.
Peace,
Seeker
Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.
So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,
So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,
- Seeker
- Posts: 1988
- Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 4:32 pm
Re: Post-Wrath
by Mrs. B on Wed Nov 16, 2011 7:06 am
Post-Wrath....
We are Kept during the wrath....just like the ark kept Noe from the flood.....
Noe went through the Flood....but he was Kept
So when the wrath of God is poured out on the wicked.....we are Kept
Tribulations are different from wrath..
Wrath is God's indignation.....It is His Anger poured out on the wicked...
Mrs. B
We are Kept during the wrath....just like the ark kept Noe from the flood.....
Noe went through the Flood....but he was Kept
So when the wrath of God is poured out on the wicked.....we are Kept
Tribulations are different from wrath..
Wrath is God's indignation.....It is His Anger poured out on the wicked...
Mrs. B
- Mrs. B
- Posts: 1911
- Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 1:19 pm
Mrs. BRe: Post-Wrath
by Seeker on Wed Nov 16, 2011 7:25 am
Hi Mrs. B,
I have never claimed that one bit of the wrath is upon the saints. To be consistant with scripture though the tares are removed first so we have to be present when the tares are removed by the wrath. We will witness the wrath but not be affected by it.
Peace,
Seeker
We are Kept during the wrath....just like the ark kept Noe from the flood.....
Noe went through the Flood....but he was Kept
So when the wrath of God is poured out on the wicked.....we are Kept
Tribulations are different from wrath..
Wrath is God's indignation.....It is His Anger poured out on the wicked...
I have never claimed that one bit of the wrath is upon the saints. To be consistant with scripture though the tares are removed first so we have to be present when the tares are removed by the wrath. We will witness the wrath but not be affected by it.
Peace,
Seeker
Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.
So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,
So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,
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