Unreported News, Commentary, Resources and Discussion of Bible Prophecy
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Ready1 wrote:I have a question for all who would be willing to respond.
When Jesus returns and collects his church, according to your viewpoint, what happens next? Where does he go? What does he do? Is it earth based? or is it heaven based? What are your reasons/scriptural references?
I suspect that there will be a division between preTrib and preWrath/postTrib. But do preWrath and postTrib answer this question the same?
Rev 19:6 And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.
Rev 19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
Rev 19:8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
Rev 19:9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.
Rev 19:10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.
Rev 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
Rev 19:12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
Rev 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
Rev 19:14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
Rev 19:16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
Ready1 wrote:To start things off,
Jesus comes back to earth. This is the "second coming" of Jesus. He comes with his "bride" whom He has married in heaven.
Rev 19:6 And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.
Rev 19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
Rev 19:8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
Rev 19:9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.
Rev 19:10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.
Rev 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
Rev 19:12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
Rev 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
Rev 19:14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
Rev 19:16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
What's next? Or does something precede this?
Rev 19:17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
Rev 19:18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
Rev 19:19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
Rev 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
Rev 19:21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.
Ready1 wrote:Rev 19:17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
Rev 19:18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
Rev 19:19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
Rev 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
Rev 19:21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.
Maybe I just didn't quote enough for you. If this battle doesn't take place on the earth, I don't know where it does take place. My question was regarding when Jesus returns to the earth. This qualifies. What's next?
12 The sixth angel poured out his bowl on the great river Euphrates, and its water was dried up to prepare the way for the kings from the East. 13 Then I saw three impure spirits that looked like frogs; they came out of the mouth of the dragon, out of the mouth of the beast and out of the mouth of the false prophet. 14 They are demonic spirits that perform signs, and they go out to the kings of the whole world, to gather them for the battle on the great day of God Almighty. 15 “Look, I come like a thief! Blessed is the one who stays awake and remains clothed, so as not to go naked and be shamefully exposed.” 16 Then they gathered the kings together to the place that in Hebrew is called Armageddon.
Sonbeam wrote:Ready1 wrote:Rev 19:17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
Rev 19:18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
Rev 19:19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
Rev 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
Rev 19:21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.
Maybe I just didn't quote enough for you. If this battle doesn't take place on the earth, I don't know where it does take place. My question was regarding when Jesus returns to the earth. This qualifies. What's next?
I see this as the battle of Armageddon. It is a spiritual battle between Satan and the forces of evil and Christ and His saints. Christ is going to give His Bride the final victory over evil.12 The sixth angel poured out his bowl on the great river Euphrates, and its water was dried up to prepare the way for the kings from the East. 13 Then I saw three impure spirits that looked like frogs; they came out of the mouth of the dragon, out of the mouth of the beast and out of the mouth of the false prophet. 14 They are demonic spirits that perform signs, and they go out to the kings of the whole world, to gather them for the battle on the great day of God Almighty. 15 “Look, I come like a thief! Blessed is the one who stays awake and remains clothed, so as not to go naked and be shamefully exposed.” 16 Then they gathered the kings together to the place that in Hebrew is called Armageddon.
sonbeam
Herb wrote:We are strictly Bible based and believe Jesus is the risen Son of God who will soon physically return to Earth to establish His Kingdom.
Ready1 wrote:Rev 19:17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
Rev 19:18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
Rev 19:19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
Rev 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
Rev 19:21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.
Maybe I just didn't quote enough for you. If this battle doesn't take place on the earth, I don't know where it does take place. My question was regarding when Jesus returns to the earth. This qualifies. What's next?
Ready1 wrote:Is this a real physical battle with real forces, or is this only a spiritual battle? Will there be real birds who come to gorge themselves upon the flesh of mighty men?
When Herb Peters set up this site, he made the following statement...do you believe it?Herb wrote:We are strictly Bible based and believe Jesus is the risen Son of God who will soon physically return to Earth to establish His Kingdom.
Sonbeam wrote:Ready1 wrote:Is this a real physical battle with real forces, or is this only a spiritual battle? Will there be real birds who come to gorge themselves upon the flesh of mighty men?
When Herb Peters set up this site, he made the following statement...do you believe it?Herb wrote:We are strictly Bible based and believe Jesus is the risen Son of God who will soon physically return to Earth to establish His Kingdom.
I do not believe that Christ will soon physically return to earth to establish Kingdom.
Christ said His kingdom is not of this world.
sonbeam
Mark F wrote:All the kingdoms in Daniel that we read about, the Colossus and the four beasts In Daniel's vision were literal kingdoms, Babylon, Greece, Medo-Persia, and depending on your belief, either Rome or the Ottoman empire for the final kingdom. Then in both cases the combined kingdoms are overcome and destroyed by Christ's kingdom. Are we to believe that after 4 literal-historical earthly kingdoms, suddenly when Jesus comes and destroys them it is with a spiritual kingdom? Really?
Jay Ross wrote:
Ready1, I did go and read the whole chapter, so that I did understand the context of the whole chapter.
As I am saying in another thread, the capture of the beast and the False Prophet By Christ and His dispatching of them into the Lake of Fire, occurs after the Beast and the False Prophet is released from the Bottomless Pit during the last 20-30 years of the Millennium Age. With that being the case, I have no issue with your statement that this battle will take place on the face of the earth towards the very end of the Millennium Age, remembering that the Millennium Age has a duration of the order of 1,020 to 1,030 years.
Now this may well be described in Revelation 19:17-21, and yes Christ may well be on the face of the earth in dealing with the Beast and the False Prophet. However in dealing with kings of the earth and their armies, he remains sited on His horse and kills the people with the sword that proceeded from his mouth, and the birds of the air feasted on the flesh of those killed.
Now in Daniel 7:13-14 we are told that Jesus is given dominion over all of the people of the earth and that they should worship Him, but the passage is silent on where Christ will exercise His dominion from.
In the Parable of the Pound in Luke 19:14 we are told that the People no longer wanted Satan to Rule over them and so they send a delegation after him saying that they did not want Satan to rule over them. This parable is also told in Matthew 25 but to a very different audience but in its telling, there are no references to the people not wanting Satan to rule over them. The people knew of Satan who was ruling still over them at this time through his influence over people. This parable is initially set at the very beginning of the Millennium Age when Satan is thrown out of heaven down to the earth and immediately imprisoned in the Bottomless Pit for a 1,000 years period, before he is released and is able to return to rule and influence the people on the earth. This 1,000 year period is described in the Parables as a man going away to a far “country,” where the Greek word translated as "country" in Luke 19 has the underlying meaning of an expansive room/chasm/pit which fits with the accounts of Satan found within the Book of Revelation. In the Matthew 25 telling the man goes away and is bound/locked up away from people for a long period of time.
In the Luke 19 account, Jesus tells us that when the Nobleman, i.e. Satan, is allowed to return he sets out to kill, all of those who did not want him to be "king" over them, and that the killing of them take place in front of him.
Likewise Luke 14:31-33 also covers the time at the beginning of the Millennium Ag, when the Nations are judged in sight of Jerusalem at the place known as Armageddon, and the Jews send a delegation off to the king doing battle there to seek His terms of Peace. This parable is speaking of the time when Israel will be redeemed, and which Paul also speaks of in Romans' 11:25-26 with all of Israel being saved.
After Jesus ascended into heaven, the disciples were told that Jesus would return in the same way.
1 Thessalonians 4 also tells us that the second coming of Christ will occur at the end of the age of the ages which is at the end of the Millennium Age.
Yes, Christ may come fleetingly to the earth between His ascension and His second coming at the end of the Millennium Age, to deal with minor issues, but to claim that Christ will be permanently on the earth during the Millennium Age to rule the earth is, in my understanding, not found in the scriptures. Our attempts to do so usually is hidden in the silence of the Scriptures and as such it is not a definitive proof that Christ will be found permanently on the face of the earth during all of the Millennium Age.
Now do you have any other passages which clearly indicate that my understanding is wrong.
Shalom
Jay Ross wrote:As I am saying in another thread, the capture of the beast and the False Prophet By Christ and His dispatching of them into the Lake of Fire,
Rev 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
Jay Ross wrote:...occurs after the Beast and the False Prophet is released from the Bottomless Pit during the last 20-30 years of the Millennium Age.
Rev 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
Rev 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
Rev 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
Jay Ross wrote:With that being the case, I have no issue with your statement that this battle will take place on the face of the earth towards the very end of the Millennium Age,
Jay Ross wrote:...remembering that the Millennium Age has a duration of the order of 1,020 to 1,030 years.
Rev 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
Rev 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
Ready1 wrote:Are we in agreement enough to say?
1. Jesus comes back to the earth with his Bride on white horses
2. Jesus and his army engages the enemy; the beast, the false prophet, and the armies of the Kings of the earth at Armageddon
mark s wrote:I think Israel is the bride, who has made herself ready, now to say, Blessed is He Who comes in the Name of the LORD!
And many will come from the east and the west . . . the guests of the banquet . . . from earthly direction, no east/west in heaven.
Sorry! Not meaning to toss in a monkey wrench! Not much, anyway!
mark s wrote:I think Israel is the bride, who has made herself ready, now to say, Blessed is He Who comes in the Name of the LORD!
And many will come from the east and the west . . . the guests of the banquet . . . from earthly direction, no east/west in heaven.
Sorry! Not meaning to toss in a monkey wrench! Not much, anyway!
Ready1
So, Sonbeam, is the battle of Armageddon a "spirit battle in the heavenliness" somewhere?
Between who and whom?
Ready1
Do you see the 1000 years as real or figurative? Is it really a thousand years?
Ready1
Do you mean that Christ will not come soon to establish his kingdom on the earth or that he will not come at all?
Ready1 wrote:Are we in agreement enough to say?
1. Jesus comes back to the earth with his Bride on white horses
2. Jesus and his army engages the enemy; the beast, the false prophet, and the armies of the Kings of the earth at Armageddon
shorttribber wrote:[quote="Sonbeam"It will happen outside of time as we know it
since this universe will be no more after the bowls of God’s wrath will have been fulfilled..
Why do you think the Wrath God pours out on the unrepentant earth occurs outside time? Why would God pour out His wrath at Amegedon After He pours Out His Full Wrath contained in the bowls?
Jude 1:13 They are wild waves of the sea, foaming up their shame; wandering stars, for whom blackest darkness has been reserved forever.
Ready1 wrote:Does everyone other than Sonbeam see the battle of Armageddon as literal and not spiritual/figurative?
Sonbeam wrote:When do you see the battle taking place?
1. While the "the bowls" of God's wrath are being poured on the world?
shorttribber wrote:
Dan 7;26
But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end.
Dan 9:27
......... he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
Sonbeam wrote:3. Is the battle between a physical element (earthly kings, anti-Christ, prophet) and Satan and his demons on one side, against glorified saints and Christ on the other side?
Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Rev 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Rev 19:19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
Rev 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
Rev 19:21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.
Rev 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
Rev 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
Rev 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Isa 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
Isa 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
Isa 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
Isa 14:15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
Isa 14:16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;
shorttribber wrote:Sonbeam wrote:When do you see the battle taking place?
1. While the "the bowls" of God's wrath are being poured on the world?
Yes....Just as could be expected in the following verses....
shorttribber wrote:
Dan 7;26
But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end.
Dan 9:27
......... he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
Rev 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
Rev 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
Rev 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
shorttribber wrote:Why isn't it good news? Seems very good to me.
Sonbeam wrote:shorttribber wrote:Why isn't it good news? Seems very good to me.
Well, because end time knowledge, as varied and debatable as it is, is not the Gospel of Jesus Christ for unbelievers, "those that are perishing."
For us that are in Christ, it is good to know that we'll be taken out before God's wrath is poured on the world.
It helps us to sleep well at night.![]()
sonbeam
Ready1 wrote:
Jay, I will not give a "full response" to your statements, but I will give you enough so that you can hopefully see how my thought processes work.
When I read scripture, I usually start at the beginning of any given book (or chapter for that matter) and I read generally from top to bottom of a page and from the front of a book to the back of a book. (or from the beginning of a chapter to the end of the chapter).
When I read, I make certain assumptions as well. Unless otherwise noted, for a particular reason, I generally understand what is in the beginning of a book to precede what is later in the book (not always, but generally). So when I read your analysis, and it does not line up with my analysis, and I see variability in interpretation (in other words you did not follow the same general rules of understanding that I did) then I am brought to the point of not understanding what your methodology entails.
So be aware that as I go through your passage what I am trying to present. I am trying to present our differences in analytical technique.
Ready1 wrote:Jay Ross wrote:As I am saying in another thread, the capture of the beast and the False Prophet By Christ and His dispatching of them into the Lake of Fire,
This occurs inRev 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.Jay Ross wrote:...occurs after the Beast and the False Prophet is released from the Bottomless Pit during the last 20-30 years of the Millennium Age.
To my knowledge this does not occur as I find no place in scripture that the beast and the false prophet are cast into or released from the bottomless pit. Only the devil, Satan himself, is cast into the bottomless pit that I can find. This follows Rev 19:20 which tells about the fate of the beast and the false prophet.
Revelation 13:11: - 11 Then I saw another beast coming up out of the earth, and he had two horns like a lamb and spoke like a dragon.
Revelation 17:7-8: - 7 But the angel said to me, "Why did you marvel? I will tell you the mystery of the woman and of the beast that carries her, which has the seven heads and the ten horns. 8 The beast that you saw was, and is not, and will ascend out of the bottomless pit and go to perdition. And those who dwell on the earth will marvel, whose names are not written in the Book of Life from the foundation of the world, when they see the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
Isaiah 24:21-23: -
21 It shall come to pass in that day
That the Lord will punish on high the host of exalted ones,
And on the earth the kings of the earth.
22 They will be gathered together,
As prisoners are gathered in the pit,
And will be shut up in the prison.
After many days they will be punished.
23 Then the moon will be disgraced
And the sun ashamed.
For the Lord of hosts will reign
On Mount Zion and in Jerusalem
And before His elders, gloriously.
Daniel 7:2-3: - 2 Daniel spoke, saying, "I saw in my vision by night, and behold, the four winds of heaven were stirring up the Great Sea. 3 And four great beasts came up from the sea, each different from the other.
Daniel 7:11-12: - 11 "I watched then because of the sound of the pompous words which the horn was speaking; I watched till the {fourth} beast was slain, and its body destroyed and given to the burning flame. 12 As for the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away, yet their lives were prolonged for a season and a time.
Continuing on: -Ready1 wrote:Rev 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
Rev 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
Rev 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
[/quote]Ready1 wrote:But you see that from my viewpoint “that is not the case”. I see my statement as true but not for the reasons that you propose.Jay Ross wrote:...remembering that the Millennium Age has a duration of the order of 1,020 to 1,030 years.
Millennium means 1000 years. Not 1020-30 years. Once again, I can find nowhere in scripture that 1000 years means more than one thousand years unless it is so stated.
Ready1 wrote:Does everyone other than Sonbeam see the battle of Armageddon as literal and not spiritual/figurative?
Ready1 wrote:Who am I to argue with you, Jay. I will not. Obviously my view is not your view.
Ready1 wrote:1. Jesus comes back to the earth with his Bride on white horses
2. Jesus and his army engages the enemy; the beast, the false prophet, and the armies of the Kings of the earth at Armageddon
Except for those who don't believe the above, what comes next?
Jay Ross wrote:How can I argue against you Ready1 when what you are asking is not literal from a biblical sense.
Zec 14:2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
Zec 14:3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
Zec 14:4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
shorttribber wrote:Sonbeam wrote:shorttribber wrote:Why isn't it good news? Seems very good to me.
Well, because end time knowledge, as varied and debatable as it is, is not the Gospel of Jesus Christ for unbelievers, "those that are perishing."
For us that are in Christ, it is good to know that we'll be taken out before God's wrath is poured on the world.
It helps us to sleep well at night.![]()
sonbeam
You don't understand what God will do During the 3.5, but I believe I Do Know, and it Is Good Gospel News.
Will explain more about it if I Ever make it to my Tabernacles Thread
Very good points, and I agree, especially on that last pointextravagantchristian wrote:I think we're going to meet him in the air first of all.
(Which means there will be a rapture to save us from whatever's happening on earth, we just don't know the day or hour)
Then we'll return to earth with him. And we'll always be with him from that point on.
2 important verses:
1 Thessalonians 4:17
Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.
(Obviously if we will always be with him, we will also return to earth with him.)
2 Thessalonians 2:1-3
2 Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition.
(The beast and false prophet are going to say that we missed the rapture and that messiah has already come.)
How can Jesus say to me "Watch; for you do not know what hour the Lord comes", when he has told us precisely when He is coming? How can He say that no one knows when it will be, when He told us exactly when it will be? How can it be that "in an hour you think not, the Son of Man comes" when He has told every believer when He is coming?
Then there is another burning question. WHY SHOULD I WATCH when I know precisely when He is coming? All I have to do is watch for the signs but I really don't have to watch for Him. Why?
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
1Th 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
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