Unreported News, Commentary, Resources and Discussion of Bible Prophecy
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4 Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?”
5 Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’
extravagantchristian wrote:GS I agree. My grandma is 86 and last summer she prayed with me to ask Jesus to save her. Finally, after claiming to be agnostic her entire life. We prayed on the way to the ER and didn't know if she was going to make it back home. She did make it back home and she's alive today but it's hard for her to leave the house. I mean if she really wanted to be baptized she probably could but it would take a lot of work to bring her oxygen and climb up in the tub of water. She asked me if she has to be baptized to go to heaven and I told her no. I said God heard your prayer and you can be sure that you are going to heaven when you die.
Jericho wrote:I've always believed baptism is not a salvation issue, it's more of a confirmation. I suspect most Protestant denominations believes this also. To me, Romans 10:9 makes it clear “If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”
On another forum I frequent, the person used to be Protestant but recently converted to Catholicism. I don't know much about Catholicism, but I assume they believe baptism is a salvation issue. One of the verses he gave was “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God”
Off hand I didn't have a good answer. He assumes "born of water" means baptism, but couldn't it also refer to a actual physical birth? Although, I'm not sure how that would make sense in the context. Any thoughts? If interested this is his post https://therightscoop.com/scoops-cathol ... orn-again/
extravagantchristian wrote:The word "baptize" means "immerse". Sprinkling someone with "holy water" is not the same and I think misses the whole point.
I don't think that skipping a physical ritual would prevent someone from being born again spiritually.
GodsStudent wrote:Lots to think on with this subject....
Jericho wrote:Romans 10:9 makes it clear “If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”
shorttribber wrote:extravagantchristian wrote:The word "baptize" means "immerse". Sprinkling someone with "holy water" is not the same and I think misses the whole point.
I don't think that skipping a physical ritual would prevent someone from being born again spiritually.
Absolutely agree.
Although in some rare circumstances, the full Immersion (under water) washing was not possible to perform. A little sprinkle was not used in the first century either. If a complete immersion were not possible in those rare instances, a Complete washing was performed.
Not One Work (Baptism) of ours prevents or allows Eternal life....It's by Christ's Whole Work Alone.
mark s wrote:John 3
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
To me, the passage explains itself. Far too simple for many.
Twice born. And twice only. Born physically, and born spiritually.
mark s wrote:Hi Abiding,
I think Jesus used "water" and "Spririt" to distinguish physical from spiritual birth, in that Jesus was teaching Nicodemas something new to him.
Ready1 wrote:And yet there is a blessing in physical water baptism, otherwise there would be no record of it in the scriptures.
mark s wrote:shorttribber wrote:extravagantchristian wrote:The word "baptize" means "immerse". Sprinkling someone with "holy water" is not the same and I think misses the whole point.
I don't think that skipping a physical ritual would prevent someone from being born again spiritually.
Absolutely agree.
Although in some rare circumstances, the full Immersion (under water) washing was not possible to perform. A little sprinkle was not used in the first century either. If a complete immersion were not possible in those rare instances, a Complete washing was performed.
Not One Work (Baptism) of ours prevents or allows Eternal life....It's by Christ's Whole Work Alone.
Hi ST,
If it's to be believed, the Didache specifies a baptismal "order", if you will, if water for immersion is not available.
Much love!
Mark
Ready1 wrote:And yet there is a blessing in physical water baptism, otherwise there would be no record of it in the scriptures.
I know that it's a physical ritual that either means nothing if there is no internal reality to match, and that if there is that internal reality, then the baptism is superfluous. Just the same, it's what I did.
Matt.28 Verses 18 to 20 [19] Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: [20] Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
GodsStudent wrote:....but, even the NT teaches Baptism, so in all cases where it's possible, it's warranted.
Abiding in His Word wrote:In my opinion it's important to see and understand this and other passages in light of the transition from the law to grace.
Abiding in His Word wrote:GodsStudent wrote:....but, even the NT teaches Baptism, so in all cases where it's possible, it's warranted.
If we remember that Jesus was a Jew, born under the law and fulfilled the law Himself, we will understand that He said that He was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel (Matt.15:24.) Paul was sent to the gentiles and confirms the order of sharing the gospel "first to the Jew and also to the Greek". (Romans 1:16).
Jesus knew the importance of water purification/cleansing, and allowed John the Baptist to act in accordance with the law (Num. 18-19). Later in 1 Peter 3:20-21, Paul contrasts baptism (not as the removal of dirt from the flesh) but to the to water that carried Noah and his family to a safe place by the Spirit of God's direction. He tells us that now baptism has a spiritual element in the formation of a moral conscience as opposed to the performance of laws.
So, yes, baptism is mentioned in the NT as we recognize the transition from law to grace. For that reason, Jesus sent the disciples to baptize in "the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit" (the spiritual meaning) as opposed to the former meaning (purification/cleaning of the flesh). He faces criticism and difficulty with Jews regarding not only his message about baptism but circumcision (Gal.5:2), and eating food that was offered to idols (Acts 15:20) as well.
In my opinion it's important to see and understand this and other passages in light of the transition from the law to grace.
GodsStudent wrote:Recently I saw the "river" where Jesus baptized John the Baptist (In Israel). The water came up to ankles and below knees but above ankles in other places. Lots of people go there as a site that "must be visited" if you get to visit Israel. Certainly I don't see how anyone could be fully immersed in that place.....unless they laid down in it.
Also, here in the USA, they "use" water that has been "made clean" and call it holy water. It's in a little bowl by the altar.
Lots to think on with this subject....
In modern days the waters of the Jordan and the Sea of Galilee are now being exploited to irrigate the distant Negeb. Pumped up into the Beit Netofa reservoir, they are then carried by a gigantic pipeline nine feet in diameter—large enough to drive a jeep through—to the arid south. And at the southern end of the Sea of Galilee an area that was swampy and desolate has been reclaimed. Bananas, citrus fruits, olives, grapes, vegetables, dairy produce and eggs, as well as eight crops of clover a year, show the productiveness of this fertile valley.
Abiding in His Word wrote:Do I believe in coincidences? Kinda.....![]()
Today, Pastor Wade Burleson posted the article on his blog, 5 Reasons why New Covenant Baptism is Spiritual
In case any are interested....
Abiding in His Word wrote:Do I believe in coincidences? Kinda.....![]()
Today, Pastor Wade Burleson posted the article on his blog, 5 Reasons why New Covenant Baptism is Spiritual
In case any are interested....
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