Unreported News, Commentary, Resources and Discussion of Bible Prophecy
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2Th 2:3 Don't be fooled by what they say. For that day will not come until there is a great rebellion against God and the man of lawlessness is revealed—the one who brings destruction.
2Th 2:4 He will exalt himself and defy everything that people call god and every object of worship. He will even sit in the temple of God, claiming that he himself is God.
2Th 2:5 Don't you remember that I told you about all this when I was with you?
2Th 2:6 And you know what is holding him back, for he can be revealed only when his time comes.
2Th 2:7 For this lawlessness is already at work secretly, and it will remain secret until the one who is holding it back steps out of the way.
2Th 2:8 Then the man of lawlessness will be revealed, but the Lord Jesus will kill him with the breath of His mouth and destroy him by the splendor of His coming.
2Th 2:9 This man will come to do the work of Satan with counterfeit power and signs and miracles.
2Th 2:10 He will use every kind of evil deception to fool those on their way to destruction, because they refuse to love and accept the truth that would save them.
extravagantchristian wrote:Verses Jay?
GodsStudent wrote:Suggestion: On this thread, lets stick to the facts about what these scriptures say. When you post a response, post the scripture you are speaking about (ie: Revelation 13: 1-4) and then comment on it. I am suggesting that as I hope we can add more and more scriptures and discuss the meaning of the text on each one, so that we can learn more about each scripture. To help us all follow along, please put the scripture you are speaking about and help us understand what is is saying.
Here's the first one.
Revelation 13:1-4 King James Version (KJV)
13 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.
3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
Daniel 7:6
6 “After this I kept looking, and behold, another one, like a leopard, which had on its back four wings of a bird; the beast also had four heads, and dominion was given to it.
Daniel 7:5
5 “And behold, another beast, a second one, resembling a bear. And it was raised up on one side, and three ribs were in its mouth between its teeth; and thus they said to it, ‘Arise, devour much meat!’
Daniel 7:4
4 “The first was like a lion and had the wings of an eagle. I kept looking until its wings were plucked, and it was lifted up from the ground and made to stand on two feet like a man; a human mind also was given to it.
Daniel 7:2–3
2 Daniel said, “I was looking in my vision by night, and behold, the four winds of heaven were stirring up the great sea.
3 “And four great beasts were coming up from the sea, different from one another.
Daniel 7:7
7 “After this I kept looking in the night visions, and behold, a fourth beast, dreadful and terrifying and extremely strong; and it had large iron teeth. It devoured and crushed and trampled down the remainder with its feet; and it was different from all the beasts that were before it, and it had ten horns.
Revelation 13:3–4
3 I saw one of his heads as if it had been slain, and his fatal wound was healed. And the whole earth was amazed and followed after the beast;
4 they worshiped the dragon because he gave his authority to the beast; and they worshiped the beast, saying, “Who is like the beast, and who is able to wage war with him?”
2 Thessalonians 2:4
4 who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God.
Revelation 13:5–6
5 There was given to him a mouth speaking arrogant words and blasphemies, and authority to act for forty-two months was given to him.
6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemies against God, to blaspheme His name and His tabernacle, that is, those who dwell in heaven.
Revelation 11:7
7 When they have finished their testimony, the beast that comes up out of the abyss will make war with them, and overcome them and kill them.
Revelation 17:8
8 “The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is about to come up out of the abyss and go to destruction. And those who dwell on the earth, whose name has not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, will wonder when they see the beast, that he was and is not and will come.
Daniel 7:23–25
23 “Thus he said: ‘The fourth beast will be a fourth kingdom on the earth, which will be different from all the other kingdoms and will devour the whole earth and tread it down and crush it.
24 ‘As for the ten horns, out of this kingdom ten kings will arise; and another will arise after them, and he will be different from the previous ones and will subdue three kings.
25 ‘He will speak out against the Most High and wear down the saints of the Highest One, and he will intend to make alterations in times and in law; and they will be given into his hand for a time, times, and half a time.
Revelation 17:9–11
9 “Here is the mind which has wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits,
10 and they are seven kings; five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; and when he comes, he must remain a little while.
11 “The beast which was and is not, is himself also an eighth and is one of the seven, and he goes to destruction.
3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
“Woe to the worthless shepherd,
Who leaves the flock!
A sword shall be against his arm
And against his right eye;
His arm shall completely wither,
And his right eye shall be totally blinded.”
Jericho wrote:“Woe to the worthless shepherd,Who leaves the flock!A sword shall be against his armAnd against his right eye;His arm shall completely wither,And his right eye shall be totally blinded.”There has been debate if this deadly wound is literal or figurative.
To me Zachariah would imply it's literal. Whatever happens (assassination maybe?) he miraculously recovers, albeit not completely.
Daniel 9:27
27 Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week;
But in the middle of the week
He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering.
And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate,
Even until the consummation, which is determined,
Is poured out on the desolate.”
Daniel 11:21 And in his place shall arise a vile person, to whom they will not give the honor of royalty; but he shall come in peaceably, and seize the kingdom by intrigue.
Daniel 11:24 He shall enter peaceably, even into the richest places of the province; and he shall do what his fathers have not done, nor his forefathers: he shall disperse among them the plunder, spoil, and riches; and he shall devise his plans against the strongholds, but only for a time.
Zechariah 11:17 “Woe to the worthless shepherd, Who leaves the flock! A sword shall be against his arm And against his right eye; His arm shall completely wither, And his right eye shall be totally blinded.”Revelation 13:3-5
3 And I saw one of his heads as if it had been mortally wounded, and his deadly wound was healed. And all the world marveled and followed the beast. 4 So they worshiped the dragon who gave authority to the beast; and they worshiped the beast, saying, “Who is like the beast? Who is able to make war with him?”
2 Thessalonians 2:2-4
2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first,
JESUS SAID:
Matthew 24:26 “Therefore if they say to you, ‘Look, He is in the desert!’ do not go out; or ‘Look, He is in the inner rooms!’ do not believe it.
shorttribber wrote:Jericho wrote:“Woe to the worthless shepherd,Who leaves the flock!A sword shall be against his armAnd against his right eye;His arm shall completely wither,And his right eye shall be totally blinded.”There has been debate if this deadly wound is literal or figurative.
To me Zachariah would imply it's literal. Whatever happens (assassination maybe?) he miraculously recovers, albeit not completely.
Hi Jericho,
Why is it that you would think this passage is to be understood literally?
Is the antichrist going to be a Literal Shepherd of Literal Sheep?
This passage is to be understood in the nonliteral sense I think.
Those who hold to a strict literal kind of interpretation of scripture tend to pick out select portions of a text and say, "this part of the verse is literal and this part the same verse is not".
Jericho wrote:ST, were all the Old Testament prophecies concerning Jesus (or anything else) that have already been fulfilled literal or allegorical?
Jericho wrote:There are literal and allegorical scriptures, true, though the context usually determines which is which.
Jericho wrote:At the same time those who make everything allegorical can make the scriptures say anything they want.
extravagant Christian wrote:He would have to be Jewish to claim to be messiah.
John 5:43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.
Jericho wrote:There are literal and allegorical scriptures, true, though the context usually determines which is which.
Ready1 wrote:extravagant Christian wrote:He would have to be Jewish to claim to be messiah.
While we look at the Jews and would expect that this would be true, the fact of the matter is that they know so little of what the scripture says that they will accept anyone who promises them what they see as theirs.
A couple of years ago we were in Israel an I asked our Jewish guide, (who was very familiar with the NT) whether he would know the messiah 1) by "who he is" (I.e. someone who has all the right credentials to be messiah) or 2) by what he does. His answer was instantaneous and unequivocal, "By what he does!" He suggested that he would be able to accept someone as diverse as Donald Trump.It definitely brought to mind the scripture
John 5:43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.
I believe this to be a prophecy uttered by Jesus regarding the coming false messiah.
While the false messiah OUGHT to be Jewish, I don't personally share the conviction that he will be.
Ready1 wrote:Just another point. The reason that Jews know so little about God's word is that even the very religious do not study it. They instead study what the rabbi's say about God's word and there are over 2000 years of rabbi's to study after. If they actually studied the word, they would be drawn to the Messiah, but Jesus called them "blind leaders of the blind."
Ready1 wrote:extravagant Christian wrote:He would have to be Jewish to claim to be messiah.
While we look at the Jews and would expect that this would be true, the fact of the matter is that they know so little of what the scripture says that they will accept anyone who promises them what they see as theirs.
A couple of years ago we were in Israel an I asked our Jewish guide, (who was very familiar with the NT) whether he would know the messiah 1) by "who he is" (I.e. someone who has all the right credentials to be messiah) or 2) by what he does. His answer was instantaneous and unequivocal, "By what he does!" He suggested that he would be able to accept someone as diverse as Donald Trump.It definitely brought to mind the scripture
John 5:43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.
I believe this to be a prophecy uttered by Jesus regarding the coming false messiah.
While the false messiah OUGHT to be Jewish, I don't personally share the conviction that he will be.
extravagantchristian wrote:Jesus said that the strong delusion could deceive even the elect. Therefore the lie must be Bible based.Again Paul warned us that they would say "the Day of Christ has already come."
mark s wrote:Doesn't the verse say the elect would be deceived if it were possible?
Revelation 13:1-4 King James Version (KJV)
13 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
GodsStudent wrote:We are debating (above) how even the elect can be decieved which is not sticking to the facts about scriptures which describe the antichrist to us.
shorttribber wrote:4 In that day, saith the LORD, I will smite every horse with astonishment, and his rider with madness: and I will open mine eyes upon the house of Judah, and will smite every horse of the people with blindness.
God is going to make every horse and rider literally blind and go crazy?
Exo 7:3 But I will make Pharaoh's heart stubborn so I can multiply My miraculous signs and wonders in the land of Egypt.
Exo 7:4 Even then Pharaoh will refuse to listen to you. So I will bring down My fist on Egypt. Then I will rescue My forces—My people, the Israelites—from the land of Egypt with great acts of judgment.
Exo 7:5 When I raise My powerful hand and bring out the Israelites, the Egyptians will know that I am the LORD."
1.) Exo 7:17 So this is what the LORD says: "I will show you that I am the LORD." Look! I will strike the water of the Nile with this staff in my hand, and the river will turn to blood.
Exo 7:18 The fish in it will die, and the river will stink. The Egyptians will not be able to drink any water from the Nile.'"
Exo 7:19 Then the LORD said to Moses: "Tell Aaron, 'Take your staff and raise your hand over the waters of Egypt—all its rivers, canals, ponds, and all the reservoirs. Turn all the water to blood. Everywhere in Egypt the water will turn to blood, even the water stored in wooden bowls and stone pots.'"
Exo 7:20 So Moses and Aaron did just as the LORD commanded them. As Pharaoh and all of his officials watched, Aaron raised his staff and struck the water of the Nile. Suddenly, the whole river turned to blood!
2.) Exo 8:3 The Nile River will swarm with frogs. They will come up out of the river and into your palace, even into your bedroom and onto your bed! They will enter the houses of your officials and your people. They will even jump into your ovens and your kneading bowls.
Exo 8:4 Frogs will jump on you, your people, and all your officials.'"
Exo 8:5 Then the LORD said to Moses, "Tell Aaron, 'Raise the staff in your hand over all the rivers, canals, and ponds of Egypt, and bring up frogs over all the land.'"
Exo 8:6 So Aaron raised his hand over the waters of Egypt, and frogs came up and covered the whole land!
extravagantchristian wrote:Ready1
So the Jews are awaiting Messiah right?
But you're saying that they are so ignorant of even the old testament that would accept a gentile as Christ?
I don't know that I would assume that.
Maybe a few Jews would but not the entire world.
Jesus said that the strong delusion could deceive even the elect. Therefore the lie must be Bible based.
Again Paul warned us that they would say "the Day of Christ has already come."
I have an open mind, and admit that I could be wrong but for now this is how I see it.
Ready1 wrote:Strangely enough, ST, God really does do what he has telegraphed in advance.
extravagantchristian wrote:I assume it's even possible that He could be a leader in Israel, from Israel.
Because It takes 2 parties to agree to any kind of covenant.
So if the covenant was the idea of a person from overseas, let's just say Europe for example.
Then it would be possible for Netanyahu (for example) to be the AC because he would be one of the parties confirming the covenant.
GodsStudent wrote:Suggestion: On this thread, lets stick to the facts about what these scriptures say. When you post a response, post the scripture you are speaking about (ie: Revelation 13: 1-4) and then comment on it.
Here's the first one.
Revelation 13:1-4 King James Version (KJV)
13 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
extravagantchristian wrote:The antichrist can be identified in other ways such as,Standing in the Temple as God and..........
GodsStudent wrote:When do we get into the actual text...plain and simple....what it says, what that means?
extravagantchristian wrote:ST if you're right and there is no covenant and no temple, then all that's left is the Antichrist being here for 42 months, and that's a very short time to cause ALL seven billion people to take the mark of the beast.
So I guess in that case we would recognize him by that one trait. The mark of the beast.
Anyhow, do you have an opinion on his nationality? Where he's from?
extravagantchristian wrote:What do you think?Jewish, Muslim, European, White, British?
GodsStudent wrote:. . . which is to put a series of scriptures out there, one at a time, and talk about them, one at a time....moving on as we completed the first one, and going to a second one.
I can't teach....I can barely sometimes learn....and I was hoping to look at this with some of you, because so many of you have good knowledge, but it's proving really hard....especially in assuming we are talking about all sorts of things, when really, I opened this thread with one scripture and we aren't talking about it.....
Im sorry....I am not fussing.....I am sad and discouraged....and feel like I am not getting out of this what I wanted and needed.....which is to put a series of scriptures out there, one at a time, and talk about them, one at a time....moving on as we completed the first one, and going to a second one.
shorttribber wrote:extravagantchristian wrote:Verses Jay?
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Jay Ross wrote:Hello
The antichrist has the face of a man in appearance but is not a man. The Antichrist is a wicked fallen heavenly host that will be worshiped.
Shalom
extravagantchristian wrote:Verses Jay?
GodsStudent wrote:Hi ST: I am not sure why you feel "invited" to bow out of this thread...you are a big time teacher here on FP, and your insights to the discussion are important imo. That said, I am not a teacher or big time and trying to look at this stuff (maybe on my lower level is a way to say it), so in order that I can follow along, I am asking to keep it simple and look at some of the scriptures about him so I can learn more about this.
It's interesting that you think muslim, and you are certainly not alone, and I don't know about any "rules," but I would hope that there weren't any that keep us from edifying each other.....most of us know there are the 3 theories out there, that he will be muslim, jewish or from Europe....and most of us know the basic tenants as to why people feel their studies have led them to believe he will arise from one of these 3 veins.
You stumped me again with bringing up the 7 year thing.......which adds another layer....but again, it gets "not simple" as the simple goal of this thread was to look at the verses which tell us about him so that we could explore more about who he is and possibly where he hails from. We aren't doing much of that, to my dismay and disappointment....
I dont know if we can go back to looking at the first scripture and sticking with that, but if not, it's ok...I guess I maybe can do my own studies and ask questions on this thread or another....was trying to do as a group, but we are all over the place....lol....it's ok.
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