WISDOM and UNDERSTANDING

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WISDOM and UNDERSTANDING

Postby canada on Wed Dec 14, 2016 2:53 pm

Here is wisdom. Let he who hath understanding count the number ... ... 666
Rev 13:18

Have you attempted to solve this mystery ... or is this for others?
Have you selected a logical biblical suspect from the past or present and do you have any evidence for choosing that language, numerical system or suspect?

John of Patmos was NOT told the language to be used to calculate the number of his name.

Is this not strange, because the languages of the Bible, Hebrew Aramaic Greek had an alpha-numeric system wherein each alphabet letter had an assigned numeric value ranging from 1-400 for Hebrew and 1-800 for Greek.

Would it not be logical to conclude that the reason the language was not stated was that it was not in existence at the time of John of Patmos, but was to be a world recognized language concurrent with the time of the appearing of that person?

I believe that unstated language is English. I recently read on a Christian site that ... "English is now spoken by over two billion people. A greater number than any other language".

There is biblical and mathematical evidence indicating that simple English (A = 1 ... Z = 26) is that unstated language.

Have you attempted to solve this mystery, and if so, what language and numerical system did you use, and do you have any evidence for choosing that language?
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Re: WISDOM and UNDERSTANDING

Postby keithareilly on Wed Dec 14, 2016 7:08 pm

My difficulty with 666 is multifaceted.

What does the number of his name mean? Is it addition? Is it double meaning of words or letters that are also numbers?
What is the time frame and does that impact how to determine the number of his name? Maybe his name in one language is a number in another language.

I guess I lack the widom for this one.

Keith
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Re: WISDOM and UNDERSTANDING

Postby Exit40 on Thu Dec 15, 2016 6:18 am

Rev 13:18 ¶ Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

In Hebrews 666 is the number for Nero Caesar. Interesting that another definition of 'count the number' is to decide by the voting of an indefinite number. There was no voting by the general populace for a leader when this was written. Today nearly every nations populous votes in it's leader.

From the Blue letter Bible site...

χξϛ chx stigma, khee xee stig'-ma; the 22nd, 14th and an obsolete letter (G4742 as a cross) of the Greek alphabet (intermediate between the 5th and 6th), used as numbers; denoting respectively 600, 60 and 6; 666 as a numeral:—six hundred threescore and six.


The obsolete letter (G4742 as a cross) of the Greek alphabet...

a mark pricked in or branded upon the body. To ancient oriental usage, slaves and soldiers bore the name or the stamp of their master or commander branded or pricked (cut) into their bodies to indicate what master or general they belonged to, and there were even some devotee's who stamped themselves in this way with the token of their gods.


Still a mystery to me too.

God Bless

David
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God

T'was Grace that taught my heart to fear.
And Grace, my fears relieved.
How precious did that Grace appear
The hour I first believed.
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Re: WISDOM and UNDERSTANDING

Postby canada on Thu Dec 15, 2016 2:38 pm

Partial preterists often claim Nero Caesar as the 666 beast ... Nrn Qsr

But by the rules of Hebrew gematria when a "nun" is a "final" ... ie a last letter as in Nrn that single letter has a value of 700 by itself.

I believe there are four of their letters as "finals" signifying ... 600 700 800 900

This is ONE reason why I do not believe the counting of the beast to be Hebrew or Greek as such short names as Tom Dick or Harry could sum at very high numeric values and such a short name would not be much of a convincing identifier.

Jesus in Greek sums at ... 888
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Re: WISDOM and UNDERSTANDING

Postby sacredcowbasher on Thu Dec 15, 2016 10:17 pm

When John describes the beast government, which is made up of several modern day countries, he described his mouth as 'the mouth of a lion'. The Lion represents Great Britain and thereby english is the main language spoken.

I don't know who he is either.
Gal 2: 14-19 But when I saw that they were not straightforward about the truth of the gospel, I said to Peter before them all, "If you, being a Jew, live in the manner of Gentiles and not as the Jews, why do you compel Gentiles to live as Jews? We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified. But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is Christ therefore a minister of sin? Certainly not! For if I build again those things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor. For I through the law ( the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus ), died to the law ( the law of sin and death ) that I might live to God. Parenthetical remarks added are mine.
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Re: WISDOM and UNDERSTANDING

Postby canada on Thu Dec 29, 2016 8:00 pm

Regarding the counting of the 666 personage, it is claimed that Hebrew or Greek would be the language to be used ... however scripture does not state the language to be used. Of those here who read these prophecy subjects, are you familiar enough with those languages to accomplish the task?

If so, have you attempted to do this, using a logical biblical suspect?
I am not concerned about your suspect, but rather do you have the understanding to do this because Rev 13:18 speaks of wisdom and understanding ... have you attempted?

Because of their possible high numeric values (1-400 and 1-800) I discounted those languages because very short names can sum in the area of 600 and higher and that would not be a very convincing identification.

Jesus in Greek = 888 ... Zoa=808 ... Moses=345 ... Seth=700 ... Asher=501
Jude=685 ... James=833 ... Paul=781 ... Simon=1100

Using simple English gematria wherein A=1 ... Z=26 requires a minimum of 26 letters to sum at 666 ... zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzp = 666

The following capitalized words in bold have something in common other than their obvious connection to the Bible ... do you know what that is?

JESUS
JEWISH
MESSIAH
... ... Jesus in Hebrew is Y’shua and in Greek ... Joshua

Y’SHUA
JOSHUA
... ... He died on the cross, preached the gospel, spoke in parables.

CROSS
GOSPEL
PARABLES
... ... Revelation speaks about “the key” of David Rev 3:7

THE KEY ... ... David was a musician familiar with songs and melody

SONGS
MELODY
... ... ... SIMPLE ... ENGLISH ... GEMATRIA

David’s Psalm 144 speaks about a “new song” just as Rev 14:3 speaks about the “new song” of the 144 thousand victors over the image, mark and number of the beast.

Do you know what that new song would be?
Do you know what those words in bold have in common?
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Re: WISDOM and UNDERSTANDING

Postby sacredcowbasher on Sun Jan 01, 2017 12:40 am

Hi Canada, and Happy New Year

Using english, all the names in bold equal 74.

The song that the 144 thousand sing may be the one listed in ch 15. The song of Moses, the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb.

Great and marvelous are Your works. Lord God Almighty!
Just and true are Your ways O King of the saints!
Who shall not fear You O Lord, and glorify Your name?
For You alone are holy
For all nations shall come and worship before You
For Your judgements have been manifested.

3x74=222

The key of David, I don't think is saying that 'the key' is a musical note, like A, B, C, etc. A song sung in the key of ....
I think He's saying that He reigns as King, as David did, and he has the authority to open and to close. He opened a door for the Philadelphia church. When a king gives a decree, it is followed.
Gal 2: 14-19 But when I saw that they were not straightforward about the truth of the gospel, I said to Peter before them all, "If you, being a Jew, live in the manner of Gentiles and not as the Jews, why do you compel Gentiles to live as Jews? We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified. But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is Christ therefore a minister of sin? Certainly not! For if I build again those things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor. For I through the law ( the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus ), died to the law ( the law of sin and death ) that I might live to God. Parenthetical remarks added are mine.
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Re: WISDOM and UNDERSTANDING

Postby canada on Sun Jan 01, 2017 3:59 pm

Well done SCB!

Over a period approaching 40 years on Bible prophecy discussion boards, you are only one of three others that has engaged with me regarding simple English gematria.

It has more than one purpose, but I believe God has designed it to give mathematical evidence that English is the unstated language to "count the number".

If I can download my article regarding 74 it will provide evidence why David and his new song is "the key", and why 144 (and 153) is a prophetic number rather than a literal number of those that gain the victory (of understanding) over the image, mark and number of the beast.

Note that the first mention of the 144 thousands with their as it were "new song" occurs immediately following the counting of the number of the beast.

This is followed by those victors over the image, mark and number singing the "Song of Moses" noted in Rev ... 15:3

"Moses Song" in Hebrew is constructed in an unusual form, but that is a story for another time.
It is claimed that it contains the gematria of his name ... which in Hebrew is ... 345

The measured "wall" around the Holy Jerusalem of Rev 21:17 is ... ... 144 cubits.

CUBITS = 74

We speak of the "canon" of scripture.
The literal meaning of canon is ... ... measuring rod.

MEASURING ROD = 144

G-D
7-4


Hopefully I will be able to download the article.
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Re: WISDOM and UNDERSTANDING

Postby 1whowaits on Sun Jan 01, 2017 9:12 pm

God receives glory when prophetic scripture is fulfilled, but if it is so complex that only a very few understand it, His glory would appear to be diminished. While the understanding of prophetic scripture may involve wisdom and understanding, once it is understood the explanation would likely be basic so that the most basic believer could understand it an how it was arrived at.

Bible codes and gematria would appear to be too complex for the basic believer to understand, so its use in prophetic scripture would appear to be unlikely. The number 666 basically is a combination of 2 numbers, 6 and 3. 6 is the number of man, 3 the number of God, basically combined to mean man-god. The AC is described as a man in Rev 13, but also as the 'beast from the Abyss' in Rev 17.

The abyss is the place that fallen angels and demons are sent to, while men are sent to Hades, the place of holding. Men are not describes as being in the Abyss or coming from the abyss, so the beast that comes from the abyss is not human. It appears that the man part of the AC, is possessed or combined in some way with a fallen angel or demon that comes from the Abyss, to become the 'man-god', and able to display supernatural powers.
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Re: WISDOM and UNDERSTANDING

Postby canada on Sun Jan 01, 2017 10:15 pm

"Bible codes and gematria would appear to be too complex for the basic believer to understand, so its use in prophetic scripture would appear to be unlikely."

I would ask ... how complex is A=1 B=2 C=3 etc.?

A child could figure out that BOB would equal 2 + 15 + 2

CORRECTION: The second mention of the 144 thousands with their "as it were" new song occurs immediately following the counting of the number of the beast.

Their first mention occurs in Revelation ... ... 7:4

You are right SCB ... they all summed at 74

JESUS = 74
JEWISH = 74
MESSIAH = 74

Y'SHUA = 74
JOSHUA = 74

CROSS = 74
GOSPEL = 74
PARABLES = 74

THE KEY = 74

SIMPLE = 74
ENGLISH = 74
GEMATRIA = 74


Hopefully the article to follow shortly.
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Re: WISDOM and UNDERSTANDING

Postby sacredcowbasher on Mon Jan 02, 2017 12:02 pm

You are bringing out some interesting things Canada. Looking forward to seeing the article.

So what you are saying is that the 'song of Moses' in Rev. 15:3 may reveal to us or help us to see who the anti-christ is right?

Shorttribber believes we will know who he is shortly, based on some things and or events that he sees coming.

It appears that we are in a time now where things are about to pick up pace from what already seemed fast paced.
Gal 2: 14-19 But when I saw that they were not straightforward about the truth of the gospel, I said to Peter before them all, "If you, being a Jew, live in the manner of Gentiles and not as the Jews, why do you compel Gentiles to live as Jews? We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified. But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is Christ therefore a minister of sin? Certainly not! For if I build again those things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor. For I through the law ( the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus ), died to the law ( the law of sin and death ) that I might live to God. Parenthetical remarks added are mine.
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Re: WISDOM and UNDERSTANDING

Postby canada on Mon Jan 02, 2017 4:36 pm

WISDOM and UNDERSTANDING and God’s sign to the Jew

Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six. Rev 13:18.

Note that God does not state the language to be used to solve this mystery.
I believe that is because that language was not in existence in John's day, but
is to be our common world recognized language of the last days … English.

In order to "count the number" each letter of the alphabet must have a value placed upon it … this is gematria.

THE FIRST RECORDED USE OF GEMATRIA was found on the palace wall of a king that skeptics said did not exist.

Isaiah 20:1 speaks of a specific Assyrian king, but skeptical historians said he did not exist. They said this because the discovery of an obelisk stone with the names of the Assyrian kings that ruled that empire made no mention of him.

The University of Chicago made a bold statement that they had found a glaring contradiction in the Bible. The "experts" said he did not exist, the Bible said he did! God would have laughed at these "great men", for archaeology finally discovered this king's palace. The name of that king was … Sargon.

MOSES "MESSIAH SIGN" . . . 74

God The Great Mathematician and His two "EVERLASTING WITNESSES"

It has been said that there is only one PURE science . . . . . . . . mathematics.
A book in my library is titled … "Mathematics Queen & Servant of Science".

I hope to provide concrete, visual evidence that our Great God has encrypted His mathematics into the Torah as a sign TO THE JEW that Jesus is the Messiah.

The sign that God placed is the personal "signet" of Y'SHUA . . . JESUS.

This particular sign is placed in what Jesus called, the first and great commandment to Jew and Gentile … Deut 6:4.
Hear, O Israel: the Lord our God is one Lord. This Hebrew "one" (echad) is a plural one.

This is the “shema" and is one of two verses that God commanded the Jew to be kept before their very eyes, and in literal obedience, the Orthodox Jew places that small box containing those two verses upon his forehead.

shemA Israel Jehovah elohenu Jehovah echaD

Note the two extra large letters AD

They are the last letter of the first word and the last letter of the last word. They are "end signs". I believe they are God's sign to the Jew that Jesus is THE Messiah.

Except for the Masoretes and those that study "Magna Parva and Finalis", most Christians and Jews are unaware of the fact that when Moses was writing Torah, God inspired him to place these two majuscule signs in Deut 6:4.

There are 11 confirmed occurrences of these mysterious large letters in Torah.

The first one occurs in the first letter in Genesis. Another one in Leviticus marks the middle letter in Torah, and another marks the middle verse in Torah.

But, ONLY ONCE do two of these strange extra large letters occur TOGETHER.

Such is the case in this first and great commandment.

To this day, God's PURPOSE for these two large letters remains a mystery, but Rabbi Bochin states that together ('ain/daleth) form the meaning "everlasting witness".

See Strong's Concordance # 5707 & 5703 regarding DE & AD

Prior to 1948 the State of Israel was not in existence and Hebrew was considered a dead language. These two witnesses have lain there as dead for 3 ½ “prophetic days” (Ps 90) ie 3,500 years since the day God inspired Moses to place them there. One day with the Lord is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as a day.

'Ain (A) has the Hebrew value 70, and daleth (D) has the value 4.

Together, these "two ancient witnesses" of Moses sum at . . . . . . . . 74

As further confirmation to Jew and Gentile of this mathematical sign, God has also designed ain & daleth to sum at 74 using simple English gematria ,,, A=1 ... Z=26

AIN = 24
DALETH = 50

I stress the word "simple" because some Christians in their zeal have devised some pretty complex systems to "make" their suspect sum at 666. Please note that it is God that designed the number 666 not Satan.

Simple English gematria is simply … A=1 B=2 … Z=26

Is it coincidence that the following words using simple English gematria each sum at 74 ?

SIMPLE = 74
ENGLISH = 74
GEMATRIA = 74

In that God gave us a special sign, an "everlasting witness" to place before our eyes (3,500 years so far) I would ask a question of the JEWISH READER.

Was Jesus the Jewish Messiah that was rejected?

JESUS = 74
JEWISH = 74
MESSIAH = 74

Jesus in Hebrew is Y'shua, and in Greek it is Joshua.

Y'SHUA = 74
JOSHUA = 74

I noted that God through Moses placed the personal "signet" of Jesus in the Shema. Dt 6:4.

SIGNET = 74

Did Jesus die on the cross … did He preach the Gospel … did He speak in parables?

CROSS = 74
GOSPEL = 74
PARABLES = 74

Revelation speaks about "the key" of David and his “new song”
Spiritually understood, David is "the key" to prophecy because of his new song.

THE KEY = 74

73 of the 150 psalms in the Book of Psalms are attributed to David.

If David wrote a "new song" about Jesus it would be his song number … 74

David's "new song" added to the existing 150 psalms would result in there now being 151.

JESUS CHRIST = 151

SONGS = 74
MELODY = 74

The word "song/songs" (form 7893 Strongs Concordance) occurs in the OT … 74 times.
A controversial musical mystery in the Bible is the word "selah". It occurs … 74 times.
"Ezekiel's Temple" by H. Sully. Sully claims that the temple area covers … 74 acres.

Songs and harps are a sign of prophecy in the Old Testament.
The "new song" is a sign of prophecy in the OT and NT … see David’s Ps 144.
It notes "hands fingers" (palms) and they are Biblical units of measure for counting.

The victors over the image mark and number of the beast sing the Song of Moses and the Song of the Lamb. Rev 15:3

Moses Songs in Torah are constructed in a very unusual visual form, but that is a story for another time.

Jesus is the first … the Initial … He is the last … The Omega..

INITIAL = 74
THE OMEGA = 74

Jesus is our Ruler … The King.

RULER = 74
THE KING = 74

Jesus is the light of the Menorah … the oil.

MENORAH = 74

When He gave himself for our sins, He said it is finished.

FINISHED = 74

Daniel's "sign on the wall" was mene, mene … which means number number.

MENE MENE = 74
A NUMBER = 74

Daniel and the children of Issachar had the gift of the magi. Dan 1:17,21. I Chron 12:32.
It is said that the magi were skilled in the use of gematria, and I believe this is why Daniel was able to decipher the "hand of God" and His "writing on the wall".

HAND OF GOD = 74

Revelation's "wall" in God's mystical city Rev 21:17 "measured" 144 cubits

CUBITS = 74

Our God is the Great I am . . . . . . . GREAT I AM = 74

He is God and a man . . . . . . . . . . GOD AND A MAN = 74

GOD/SON = 74

Orthodox Jews will not write "God" … they do it as . . . G-D
"G" is our 7th letter and "D" is our fourth . . . . . . . . . . 7-4

The 144 thousand of Rev 14 sing a very unusual song that only they
understand, the first mention of the 144 thousands occurs in Rev ….. 7:4

This group with the new song IMMEDIATELY follow the verse that numbers the 666 beast.
This group had their father's name written in their forehead. Rev 14.

The earthly father (parent) of Jesus was Joseph the carpenter (as was mine).

PARENT = 74

The Hebrew meaning of the word Joseph means "he shall add" or "increase".

HE SHALL ADD= 74
INCREASE = 74

During a period of discouragement and rejection by Christians to my study of God's prophetic numbers (144 153 666) He gave me a personal sign of assurance.

I AM SAVED = 74

Jesus will appear in the heavens, His chariot in the clouds.

HEAVENS = 74
CHARIOT = 74
CLOUDS = 74

Today, we hear much talk about Temple III. This may be (?) to be understood spiritually.
Jesus is our “third temple”.

TEMPLE III = 74

Are these signs designed by the God who knows the end from the beginning, or are they mere "coincidence"?

Remember the name of the king that the "experts" said did not exist, and was associated with the first recorded use of gematria? his name was ... SARGON = 74

There is much more, but I will close with something from the OT.

Then went up Moses, and Aaron, Nadab and Abihu and seventy of the elders of Israel . . . ([b]74
) . . . and they saw The God of Israel. Exodus 24:9-10.

TO GOD BE THE GLORY FOR GREAT THINGS HE HATH DONE

ccc
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Re: WISDOM and UNDERSTANDING

Postby sacredcowbasher on Mon Jan 02, 2017 6:46 pm

So much of what you posted is really really cool and interesting. God speaks to us in many ways. His word, nature, the stars, and I do believe He can use math to speak. I think you are right about using English as the modern day language to decipher.

Out of curiosity I checked this out:
president of the united states and commander in chief, Donald John Trump = 665

Pretty sure my math was right and very glad it didn't come out to 666. Canada, have you tried any names with titles that have come out to 666?

I think you should send your findings to the Christian Jew Foundation Ministry. They may want to publish it. Their web site is cjfm.org

They do place an emphasis on reaching out to unsaved Jews, and what you shared about the eternal two witnesses was pretty powerful, along with things like Jesus Christ equalling 151 and with David's new song it would have made 74 songs written by David and it would have made 151 Psalms.

God bless and thanks for sharing
Gal 2: 14-19 But when I saw that they were not straightforward about the truth of the gospel, I said to Peter before them all, "If you, being a Jew, live in the manner of Gentiles and not as the Jews, why do you compel Gentiles to live as Jews? We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified. But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is Christ therefore a minister of sin? Certainly not! For if I build again those things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor. For I through the law ( the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus ), died to the law ( the law of sin and death ) that I might live to God. Parenthetical remarks added are mine.
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Re: WISDOM and UNDERSTANDING

Postby Abiding in His Word on Mon Jan 02, 2017 7:36 pm

There is much speculation even among scholars as to the meaning of Rev. 13:18. Vincent Word Studies says this:

The majority of the commentators use the Greek alphabet in computation; others, however, employ the Hebrew; while a third class employ the Roman numerals. The interpretations of this number form a jungle from which escape is apparently hopeless.


And from E.W. Bullenger:

Six hundred, &c. The Greek for this number is three letters which by gematria (App-10) = 600, 60, 6 = 666. It is the number of a name. When the name of the "beast" (antichrist) is known, it will doubtless be recognized by both computation (see above) and gematria. The three letters SSS (= 666) formed the symbol of Isis and the secret symbol of the old "Mysteries". That ancient "mysteries" and modern "beliefs" are becoming closely allied, witness the rapid growth and spread of Spiritism, Theosophy, and Occultism of every kind. (Some ancient authorities read 616, used by the Jews of the worship of the Emperor.)


I agree with 1whowaits that "Bible codes and gematria would appear to be too complex for the basic believer to understand, so its use in prophetic scripture would appear to be unlikely." I highly recommend this method of exegesis Hermeneutics: Key to Understanding Prophecy as opposed to using numeric codes to interpret scripture.
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Re: WISDOM and UNDERSTANDING

Postby shorttribber on Mon Jan 02, 2017 9:07 pm

As for me Canada, I do think there is something to what you are saying. It is prophetically important I also think.
Having said that, I also am one who knows, note I said "knows", that prophecy is layered or Woven together as fabric.

After speaking with a Hebrew scholar a few months back, he was very helpful to explain how Hebrew words are written in the same way that fabric is Woven Together. It does not surprise me then that prophecy itself has the same characteristics as individual Hebrew words.

Bible prophecy is very complex as we all know....but it has a Very Simple side also. The simplicity of it is under God's control, and time, to give what is needed (understanding and wisdom) to any Heart that is Hungry and Childlike in our trust of Him.

We will all Know WHEN He Sees that it is necessary for us to Know and Understand, Individually ,and as His Body.

Truth is all that matters, and He will Confirm All Truth to those who Willingly Trust Him Fully.....but at His choosing and time to do so.

At the time present, none of us are able to walk fully in His Spirit, in inerrant truth....but it Could be that Soon we will.

Then, we Will Understand Together, the numbers in prophecy that are important and needful for us to know.

I do think you've found an interesting and important part of Bible prophecy.
The Wisest men have changed their Counsels and Resolves upon second thoughts, much more upon experience, and approaching evils not at first discovered. Rev. Herbert Croft, 1675

Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counsellors there is safety.

Find seven years of tribulation plainly stated in the Bible.
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Re: WISDOM and UNDERSTANDING

Postby canada on Tue Jan 03, 2017 10:51 am

Thank you all for your response.
Revelation 13 with its image, mark and number of the beast brings out many varied opinions.

Bottom line ... are the mathematical examples summing at 74 a coincidence ... or designed by God?

If designed by God, then English gematria must serve a purpose.
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Re: WISDOM and UNDERSTANDING

Postby GodsStudent on Tue Jan 10, 2017 9:26 am

Wow, this sort of mathematical stuff always fascinates me, but I have never had the sort of mind it takes to process all of this without getting somehow lost along the way. That said, I do love that I am different from others, and can somewhat follow along with the basic gist of what others say, and what they are trying to convey in their teaching of the significant and glorious mysteries of God, as He is the author of all in His Word, many times, it coming down to mathematical miracles....it always blows my mind when I learn things such as this about God's mathematical genius!

So, based on the formula presented here, has anyone run other names....you know, like Solana, Putin, blah, blah, blah, and come up with a 666 we should (could) know about?.....just a curious question..... :mrgreen:
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Re: WISDOM and UNDERSTANDING

Postby Resurrection Torchlight on Tue Jan 10, 2017 3:28 pm

Revelation 13:16-18
16 And he causes all, the small and the great, and the rich and the poor, and the free men and the slaves, to be given a mark on their right hand or on their forehead,
17 and he provides that no one will be able to buy or to sell, except the one who has the mark, either the name of the beast or the number of his name.
18 Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for the number is that of a man; and his number is six hundred and sixty-six.


So something to consider is that the number of the beast isn't just a calculation but it is also in the mark that people will take in order to buy and sell. I do not know if people will have a choice between the name and number or if it will be assigned arbitrarily. But people who take the mark will undoubtedly connect it to the identity of the beast. We are not left to guess what the calculation adds up to, it is 666. So some people who wear the mark will wear the number 666 and will identify with the beast. I do not really think it matters how one arrives at the calculation, like others have said, when the time is right, God will lend supernatural understanding to those who need to know.

There are many things in chapter 13 that shed light on who the antichrist/beast is:

he has a fatal head wound that was healed ( died and is resurrected?)
The whole earth is astonished and follows him
the whole earth worships him and the dragon (Satan)
he speaks arrogant words and blasphemes God and those who tabernacle with God
he makes war with the saints
he has authority over every tongue, tribe and people
The false prophet deceives people with great signs that he performs in the presence of the beast.

The number of his name is only one means of identification, not that it will really matter right? I mean, no one is going to thwart God's divine plan, once it is put into motion. Knowing who the antichrist is, won't change anything, will it?. He will reveal himself for what he really is when he seats himself in the temple displaying himself as God. That in my opinion is the final unveiling, when his true character will identify him to the Jews in particular.

RT
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Re: WISDOM and UNDERSTANDING

Postby kirthril on Sun Jan 22, 2017 12:00 pm

keithareilly wrote:My difficulty with 666 is multifaceted.

What does the number of his name mean? Is it addition? Is it double meaning of words or letters that are also numbers?
What is the time frame and does that impact how to determine the number of his name? Maybe his name in one language is a number in another language.

I guess I lack the widom for this one.

Keith

I think kiethareilly hits the nail on the head here. The mark of the beast, 666, is a number in one language, a name in another.

It is both. John of Revelation even states as much:
Revelation 13:16-18
16 And he causes all, the small and the great, and the rich and the poor, and the free men and the slaves, to be given a mark on their right hand or on their forehead,
17 and he provides that no one will be able to buy or to sell, except the one who has the mark, either the name of the beast or the number of his name.
18 Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for the number is that of a man; and his number is six hundred and sixty-six.

he is telling us that the mark is either "the name of the beast" or "number of his name". The fact that John knows its a name, but at the same time is a number to him which he knows (666) means that its a language difference. 666 in one language Chi XI Stigma (greek) but its a name in another language.

When John is transported to the future he sees people wearing/tattooed with the Greek 666 on them. But he knows its not simply the greek 666, thus why he also states it must also be a name. Its definitely another language.

The reason John doesn't just outright tell us the name of the AC or the beast? Its another language he doesn't know.
"It is not who I am...But what I do that defines me" -Batman, Batman Begins
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