Define "Apostasy"

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Re: Define "Apostasy"

Postby shorttribber on Wed Sep 02, 2015 4:14 pm

My Printed Strong's has 26 Agape at Both places in Eph 5:2 :dunno:
The Wisest men have changed their Counsels and Resolves upon second thoughts, much more upon experience, and approaching evils not at first discovered. Rev. Herbert Croft, 1675

Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counsellors there is safety.

Find seven years of tribulation plainly stated in the Bible.
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Re: Define "Apostasy"

Postby mark s on Wed Sep 02, 2015 4:22 pm

shorttribber wrote:My Printed Strong's has 26 Agape at Both places in Eph 5:2 :dunno:


Even with a magnifying glass?

:oldman:




:flowerz:
ειπεν αυτη ο ιησους εγω ειμι η αναστασις και η ζωη ο πιστευων εις εμε καν αποθανη ζησεται
. . . saying to her Jesus, I AM the resurrection and the life, the one believing into Me even dying shall live . . .
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Re: Define "Apostasy"

Postby shorttribber on Wed Sep 02, 2015 4:43 pm

mark s wrote:
shorttribber wrote:My Printed Strong's has 26 Agape at Both places in Eph 5:2 :dunno:


Even with a magnifying glass?

:oldman:




:flowerz:


Yep!
but ya know what mark.....the more I looked at every place where Love is used as a noun or verb as you've said, I think you're right and I've been wrong about this thing.

About the Love discussion that is, not about the Falling away, as to how it is to be understood, i think it best to admit my error.
The Wisest men have changed their Counsels and Resolves upon second thoughts, much more upon experience, and approaching evils not at first discovered. Rev. Herbert Croft, 1675

Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counsellors there is safety.

Find seven years of tribulation plainly stated in the Bible.
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Re: Define "Apostasy"

Postby mark s on Wed Sep 02, 2015 5:56 pm

:hugs:

Much love!

I've heard it said that the wisest men have changed their counsels and resolves upon second thoughts.

Mark
ειπεν αυτη ο ιησους εγω ειμι η αναστασις και η ζωη ο πιστευων εις εμε καν αποθανη ζησεται
. . . saying to her Jesus, I AM the resurrection and the life, the one believing into Me even dying shall live . . .
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Re: Define "Apostasy"

Postby shorttribber on Wed Sep 02, 2015 6:11 pm

mark s wrote:I've heard it said that the wisest men have changed their counsels and resolves upon second thoughts.
heard that somewhere before too.

:hugs:
The Wisest men have changed their Counsels and Resolves upon second thoughts, much more upon experience, and approaching evils not at first discovered. Rev. Herbert Croft, 1675

Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counsellors there is safety.

Find seven years of tribulation plainly stated in the Bible.
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Re: Define "Apostasy"

Postby keithareilly on Wed Sep 02, 2015 9:40 pm

Christian Mommy,

From Strongs ...
apostasia: defection, revolt
Original Word: ἀποστασία, ας, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: apostasia
Phonetic Spelling: (ap-os-tas-ee'-ah)
Short Definition: defection, apostasy
Definition: defection, apostasy, revolt.
HELPS Word-studies


646 apostasía (from 868 /aphístēmi, "leave, depart," which is derived from 575 /apó, "away from" and 2476 /histémi, [color=#FF0000]"stand[/color]") – properly, departure (implying desertion); apostasy – literally, "a leaving, from a previous standing."

Here are some examples that would qualify as being on the scale and magnitude of THE APOSTASY:
1) Society Leaving the concept of creation behind and adopting the theory of evolution.
2) Authority does not originate with God, He does not establish his authority on the earth through leaders but authority rests with the people and the people elect leaders.
3) The earth is round not flat.
4) The earth is not the center of the Universe.
5) Marriage can be between two people of the same sex.

In each case, a change in the foundation upon which we build our understanding of reality has occurred.

In Acts 21:21 the apostle Paul was considered a Jew who taught apostasy with regards to Moses's teachings.
Christianity is an apostasy from the Law of Moses because we are saved by Christ's sacrifice.
We build upon a different foundation, a different belief structure.


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Re: Define "Apostasy"

Postby Resurrection Torchlight on Thu Sep 03, 2015 6:23 am

Not sure if this goes against board rules, if so moderators can delete this

Just thought this was relevant to the conversation here concerning the meaning of the word apostasy:
http://www.bibleprophecyblog.com/2011/0 ... s-23.html#


Not saying I have a clear understanding of this myself, just throwing this out there.

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Re: Define "Apostasy"

Postby keithareilly on Thu Sep 03, 2015 9:29 am

Apostasy is a departure from a standing, that is, a departure from the foundation upon which you stand; that is, a departure from the truths under your life, that is a departure from the truths upon which you have built your life.

We would describe it today as a "departure" from what we "under-stand" to be true.
This "departure" from an "understanding" is sufficient to cause one to depart from a group who holds to the understanding from which one has departed. If the change in "understanding" involves enough people, the result is rebellion against the established order; the rebellion may or may not be violent.

This I why social engineering is accomplished in the schools system. Through education we teach apostasy, changing the underling truths upon which future generations build society.

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Re: Define "Apostasy"

Postby Sonbeam on Thu Sep 03, 2015 11:29 am

keithareilly wrote:Apostasy is a departure from a standing, that is, a departure from the foundation upon which you stand; that is, a departure from the truths under your life, that is a departure from the truths upon which you have built your life.

We would describe it today as a "departure" from what we "under-stand" to be true.
This "departure" from an "understanding" is sufficient to cause one to depart from a group who holds to the understanding from which one has departed. If the change in "understanding" involves enough people, the result is rebellion against the established order; the rebellion may or may not be violent.

This I why social engineering is accomplished in the schools system. Through education we teach apostasy, changing the underling truths upon which future generations build society.

Keith


I see "apostasia" as a general departure from the truth of God's principles throughout the world as I believe you see it too.

Here in the US we are seeing the "rebellion to established order/authority" in full swing with the calling by some for the murder of police officers and this actually being carried out by some.
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Re: Define "Apostasy"

Postby keithareilly on Thu Sep 03, 2015 3:02 pm

Sonbeam wrote,

I see "apostasia" as a general departure from the truth of God's principles throughout the world as I believe you see it too.


This is also how the Jews of the first century saw the Apostle Paul and his teachings about Christ.
Paul was a Pharisee who abandoned Pharisaical teachings and the Law of Moses as understood by the Pharisees.
Paul was not wrong, but he was apostate from his own upbringing. See Acts 21:21.

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Re: Define "Apostasy"

Postby shorttribber on Fri Sep 04, 2015 2:47 pm

Back on the forum for a brief post....will add more later.
Just wanted to mention that Keith was right too and I was wrong on another thread that he had about the Love discussion.
It was the Noun and Verb thing that got me over the right understanding hurdle keith.
But you were right I think, along with mark.

And I'm back to the hospital tonight...wife is doing real well though(details mentioned on the prayer section)
Love to all, will visit this thread again later...few days maybe
The Wisest men have changed their Counsels and Resolves upon second thoughts, much more upon experience, and approaching evils not at first discovered. Rev. Herbert Croft, 1675

Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counsellors there is safety.

Find seven years of tribulation plainly stated in the Bible.
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Re: Define "Apostasy"

Postby keithareilly on Fri Sep 04, 2015 5:39 pm

Thanks shorttribber.

Love has a temperature and it can grow cold. Should that happen, apostasy can result.

The greatest Commandments are : (Summarized)
Love God with your all; Love your neighbor as yourself.

Love is a possession (noun), which one exercises (verb) when keeping the commandments producing more love (noun).
Faith without works is dead; a living faith results in works of faith.
When we face choices (noun) we choose(verb).

To be alive means to transform nouns into verbs.

Thus, when love grows cold one is dead and apostate.


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Re: Define "Apostasy"

Postby shorttribber on Sat Sep 05, 2015 11:20 am

keithareilly wrote:Thanks shorttribber.

Love has a temperature and it can grow cold. Should that happen, apostasy can result.

The greatest Commandments are : (Summarized)
Love God with your all; Love your neighbor as yourself.

Love is a possession (noun), which one exercises (verb) when keeping the commandments producing more love (noun).
Faith without works is dead; a living faith results in works of faith.
When we face choices (noun) we choose(verb).

To be alive means to transform nouns into verbs.

Thus, when love grows cold one is dead and apostate.


Keith

That really is a great post :a3:
The Wisest men have changed their Counsels and Resolves upon second thoughts, much more upon experience, and approaching evils not at first discovered. Rev. Herbert Croft, 1675

Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counsellors there is safety.

Find seven years of tribulation plainly stated in the Bible.
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Re: Define "Apostasy"

Postby christian_m0mmy on Sat Sep 05, 2015 9:26 pm

Resurrection Torchlight wrote:Not sure if this goes against board rules, if so moderators can delete this

Just thought this was relevant to the conversation here concerning the meaning of the word apostasy:
http://www.bibleprophecyblog.com/2011/0 ... s-23.html#


Not saying I have a clear understanding of this myself, just throwing this out there.

RT


Yes! This is what Scottie was explaining! Thanks RT!
Col 2:6 Therefore as you have received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in Him

Col 2:6 You have accepted Christ Jesus as your Lord. Now keep on following him.
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Re: Define "Apostasy"

Postby keithareilly on Sun Sep 06, 2015 4:49 am

While being gather with Christ could be described as apostasy (departing), it is problematic for the apostasy in 2 Thessalonians 2 to be the gathering with Christ.

The believers are told in the verses not to believe anyone telling them Christ has returned before witnessing the apostasy and the revealing of the man of lawlessness. First witness the apostasy and man of lawlessness, then look for the Gathering and Christ's return.

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Re: Define "Apostasy"

Postby christian_m0mmy on Sun Sep 06, 2015 2:35 pm

keithareilly wrote:While being gather with Christ could be described as apostasy (departing), it is problematic for the apostasy in 2 Thessalonians 2 to be the gathering with Christ.

The believers are told in the verses not to believe anyone telling them Christ has returned before witnessing the apostasy and the revealing of the man of lawlessness. First witness the apostasy and man of lawlessness, then look for the Gathering and Christ's return.

Keith


I think it's more like:

"Let not anyone deceive you by any means. For (Christ's coming with the saints) shall not come unless there first comes (the Rapture), and the man of sin shall be revealed, the son of perdition,"

*text in parenthesis is mine

Christ's second coming is not the Rapture. The Second Coming is when Jesus is seen coming with His saints with power. After that He gathers His elect from the four corners of the Earth.
Col 2:6 Therefore as you have received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in Him

Col 2:6 You have accepted Christ Jesus as your Lord. Now keep on following him.
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