Putin Gog/Magog?

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Putin Gog/Magog?

Postby Finaldash on Tue Sep 17, 2013 2:34 pm

Is there a possibility that all the pieces are in place for an Ezekiel 38 or Gog/Magog scenario at some point? Especially what it seems to me a strengthening of Russia's influence in the region and the numbing and dumbing of the US?
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Re: Putin Gog/Magog?

Postby Sunny on Tue Sep 17, 2013 6:57 pm

The players are shaping up, but they have a way to go before they are militarily united against Israel. Also missing, at this point, are Libya and Ethiopia.

As the Russian-Syria-Iran alliance gains strength, I expect the US influence in the Mideast to shrink to impotence.

That's my guess, anyway. :)

Edited to add... I think I have Gog-Magog mixed up with Armageddon on the Libya and Ethiopia players.
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Re: Putin Gog/Magog?

Postby Mr Baldy on Sun Mar 02, 2014 5:45 pm

There are many who believe that Putin is Gog Of Ezekiel 38. With the way that this man has kept power - I certainly wouldn't rule it out.
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Re: Putin Gog/Magog?

Postby 1whowaits on Sun Mar 02, 2014 6:38 pm

It may be possible that Russia is magog and Putin is Gog, the bear is rising. But Gog attacks Israel to 'loot and plunder' which would suggest a change in the economic situation perhaps. And the muslim nations must join together behind Gog to come against Israel, which they do not appear ready to do yet.

Conspicuously absent from the list of nations at Gog-magog are the nations immediately surrounding Israel, they would be there if they could be, apparently some event preceeds Gog. These nations are listed together though in Isa 17, Ps 83, Amos 1 and Zech 9, in an event commonly termed the destruction of Damascus. And Isa 17 makes reference to the spring harvests for some reason, perhaps the event occurs in the spring of that particular year.

Something might occur to move events in that direction, and the destruction of Damascus would just fit the bill.
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Re: Putin Gog/Magog?

Postby sacredcowbasher on Sun Mar 02, 2014 10:39 pm

Exactly what I going to suggest, but not as learned as you have done it, 1whowaits,

I keep feeling that with what is going on presently has kept Israel out of the picture a bit. What is going on in their minds?
They are still in a very difficult place from being pressured by the world community. I believe your insight, 1whowaits, talking about Isa 17 and other passages is what we are about to see. The next thing that will happen on a major scale. It makes sense that Russia will seek revenge for Israel destroying much of their economic and military support.

The world will be in rage against Israel for protecting themselves from their enemies. Here is where we will be in full swing into the GT.
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Re: Putin Gog/Magog?

Postby drdos on Tue Mar 04, 2014 7:24 am

I think a peace deal will come before any major war breaks out. This is a perfect time for a false peace agreement. Remember Gog-Magog happens when Israel is at peace according to Eze 38:10-11

10'Thus says the Lord GOD, "It will come about on that day, that thoughts will come into your mind and you will devise an evil plan,

11and you will say, 'I will go up against the land of unwalled villages I will go against those who are at rest, that live securely, all of them living without walls and having no bars or gates,
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Re: Putin Gog/Magog?

Postby sacredcowbasher on Wed Mar 05, 2014 11:43 am

Yeah, I thought about the peace deal after I said what I did. I don't know if it really makes sense that a war could be before the peace deal. I think it could if we have the timing of the peace wrong, and it occurs later. If Israel were to do a preemptive strike for their survival, it could be when all the smoke clears, that the nations will take a collective sigh of relief in that Iran will have been taken out.

N. Korea will no doubt be a bit humbled and will probably lay low, giving up its antics. The world may move to take measures against them to remove another bad player from the world scene. They would probably need China's help.

These are just thoughts I have, trying to fit things together of what could be.

You and others may be right dodos. We may see the peace deal before any major war or atrocity.
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Re: Putin Gog/Magog?

Postby Jay Ross on Wed Mar 05, 2014 2:24 pm

Has anybody given any consideration that the world leaders are attempting to "Play God Like" at the moment.

It is a Sin that many people play at even His Saints like King David did it back around 3,000 years ago.

Shalom

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Re: Putin Gog/Magog?

Postby Mr Baldy on Sat Mar 08, 2014 8:20 am

1whowaits wrote:It may be possible that Russia is magog and Putin is Gog, the bear is rising. But Gog attacks Israel to 'loot and plunder' which would suggest a change in the economic situation perhaps. And the muslim nations must join together behind Gog to come against Israel, which they do not appear ready to do yet.
Conspicuously absent from the list of nations at Gog-magog are the nations immediately surrounding Israel, they would be there if they could be, apparently some event preceeds Gog. These nations are listed together though in Isa 17, Ps 83, Amos 1 and Zech 9, in an event commonly termed the destruction of Damascus. And Isa 17 makes reference to the spring harvests for some reason, perhaps the event occurs in the spring of that particular year.

Something might occur to move events in that direction, and the destruction of Damascus would just fit the bill.


In looking at the rise of Putin - and how "he just won't go away"; I'm inclined to believe that he is Gog, with the timing of the recent events and what has happened with Russia surrounding this man.

What I am unsure of however, is how the timing of Ezekiel 38/39 - and the many theories that surround it. Although there are some differences, It appears that it could also be associated with or the same as the Gog/Magog war listed in Revelation 20. I just not sold on the idea that it happens prior to a "Rapture" and it may be associated with the Day of the Lord.
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Re: Putin Gog/Magog?

Postby Resurrection Torchlight on Fri Mar 14, 2014 6:36 am

What I am unsure of however, is how the timing of Ezekiel 38/39 - and the many theories that surround it. Although there are some differences, It appears that it could also be associated with or the same as the Gog/Magog war listed in Revelation 20. I just not sold on the idea that it happens prior to a "Rapture" and it may be associated with the Day of the Lord.


I agree


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Re: Putin Gog/Magog?

Postby Mr Baldy on Fri Mar 14, 2014 4:31 pm

Mr Baldy wrote:What I am unsure of however, is how the timing of Ezekiel 38/39 - and the many theories that surround it. Although there are some differences, It appears that it could also be associated with or the same as the Gog/Magog war listed in Revelation 20. I just not sold on the idea that it happens prior to a "Rapture" and it may be associated with the Day of the Lord.


Resurrection Torchlight wrote:I agree



RT do you have any information or personal studies on how Ezekiel 38/39 may relate to the Gog/Magog war in Revelation 20?
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Re: Putin Gog/Magog?

Postby slick on Sat Mar 15, 2014 2:42 am

Hello Mr Baldy & Gang,
In My studies, through the few times that Gog & Magog are listed in scripture...Ezekiel 38 & 39 & Rev 20 Through Comparison & careful examination of the events associated I've Come to the conclusion that there are 2 distinct invasions or events dealing with GOG & Magog the first one is not so much a war but rather an occupation, perhaps even a supposed peace keeping mission, but we see in Ezekiel 38 they PLUNDER RAPE and STEAL ....Note In Ezekiel 39 it entails their destruction.....this telling in 39 seems to parallel Rev 20 (armageddon)....but look at Daniel 7

[Dan 7:11-12 NASB] 11 "Then I kept looking because of the sound of the boastful words which the horn was speaking; I kept looking until the beast was slain, and its body was destroyed and given to the burning fire. 12

"As for the rest of the beasts, their dominion was taken away, but an extension of life was granted to them for an appointed period of time.

GOD BLESS,
THE BATTLE RAGES TIL THE LION SOON ROARS! :armor:

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Re: Putin Gog/Magog?

Postby Mr Baldy on Sat Mar 15, 2014 6:20 am

slick wrote:In My studies, through the few times that Gog & Magog are listed in scripture...Ezekiel 38 & 39 & Rev 20 Through Comparison & careful examination of the events associated I've Come to the conclusion that there are 2 distinct invasions or events dealing with GOG & Magog the first one is not so much a war but rather an occupation, perhaps even a supposed peace keeping mission, but we see in Ezekiel 38 they PLUNDER RAPE and STEAL ....Note In Ezekiel 39 it entails their destruction.....this telling in 39 seems to parallel Rev 20 (armageddon)....but look at Daniel 7[Dan 7:11-12 NASB] 11 "Then I kept looking because of the sound of the boastful words which the horn was speaking; I kept looking until the beast was slain, and its body was destroyed and given to the burning fire. 12 "As for the rest of the beasts, their dominion was taken away, but an extension of life was granted to them for an appointed period of time.


Hi Slicker,

You really caught my attention with the fact that you have mentioned that Ezekiel 39 seems to parallel Revelation 20 or Armageddon - and you have emboldened :

"As for the rest of the beasts, their dominion was taken away, but an extension of life was granted to them for an appointed period of time."

In your studies, could this "extension of life" for "an appointed period of time" be referring to the "little season" that Satan is let out of his prison after the 1,000 years are over?

Also do you have any additional information on how this Gog/Magog war parallels?
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Re: Putin Gog/Magog?

Postby slick on Sun Mar 16, 2014 4:37 am

Hello Mr Baldy,

in your studies, could this "extension of life" for "an appointed period of time" be referring to the "little season" that Satan is let out of his prison after the 1,000 years are over?


I absolutely believe that's what it is so we see Gog / Magog at the very end of time at which point He will be utterly defeated and cast into Hell with all of the other Beast Types and their followers.

As Far As Parallel and association it is both the wording and comparison of the events and time frame depicted in scripture ...

Here Is a Blog I wrote concerning GOG / Magog perhaps it will help....

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/The ... essages/55

GOD-BLESS,
THE BATTLE RAGES TIL THE LION SOON ROARS!! :armor:
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Re: Putin Gog/Magog?

Postby Mr Baldy on Mon Mar 17, 2014 5:20 pm

slick wrote:I absolutely believe that's what it is so we see Gog / Magog at the very end of time at which point He will be utterly defeated and cast into Hell with all of the other Beast Types and their followers.


Hi Slick,

Thank you for your response - and the link to the Blog in which you wrote a comment on concerning this issue.

I must say, that after reading your comments I'm beginning to wonder(again) if Every Thing Ends when Christ Appears. Meaning that at the Day of the Lord; the Rapture occurs; He Reigns, Judgment ensues; and the Eternal State begins - and this is all considered a single day. I had previously let this whole notion rest - but it's beginning to boggle my mind once again.

As I continue to study - I will perhaps start a new thread on: "Does it all END when Christ Appears?"
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Re: Putin Gog/Magog?

Postby Mr Baldy on Wed Sep 30, 2015 3:33 pm

Anyone watching the News lately about Putin?
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Re: Putin Gog/Magog?

Postby extravagantchristian on Wed Sep 30, 2015 3:49 pm

Here's the thing, Russia is not only picking a fight with us, but they formed a coalition with Iran, Israel's enemy. Iranian troops are massing at the border near Israel now. They clearly have a plan , and i don't think they're even trying to fight isis. This is a proxy war and it could explode any moment. Russia told US to stand down, but we did not comply. Our plans are flying over Syrian skies right now, at the same time Russia is flying their plans in syria skies., fighting or allies. This could quickly turn into the isahia 17 prophecy, destruction of Damascus, the beginning of the end.
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Re: Putin Gog/Magog?

Postby Mr Baldy on Wed Sep 30, 2015 4:52 pm

extravagantchristian wrote: This could quickly turn into the isahia 17 prophecy, destruction of Damascus, the beginning of the end.


My sentiments exactly!

If, as you have mentioned Russia has a coalition with Iran - and ironically Sanctions on this Country has just recently been lifted; and if Ethiopia and Libya at some point come in - then there will be no doubt in my mind that Vladimir Putin is Gog.
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Re: Putin Gog/Magog?

Postby Jericho on Wed Sep 30, 2015 5:41 pm

Mr Baldy wrote:Anyone watching the News lately about Putin?


He is acting very Gog-esk isn't he.
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Re: Putin Gog/Magog?

Postby kirthril on Thu Oct 01, 2015 4:28 pm

I no longer believe Gog/Magog is Russia/Putin. They/he is way to far north of Israel, and if God sends a fire on Gog and the land of magog (obliterating Russia), then who exactly scares the stuffing out of the AC from his north after he conquers Egypt?

Mr Baldy wrote:
extravagantchristian wrote: This could quickly turn into the isahia 17 prophecy, destruction of Damascus, the beginning of the end.


My sentiments exactly!

If, as you have mentioned Russia has a coalition with Iran - and ironically Sanctions on this Country has just recently been lifted; and if Ethiopia and Libya at some point come in - then there will be no doubt in my mind that Vladimir Putin is Gog.

Just wanted to correct. The biblical Ethiopia is modern day Sudan.

By reading the debates here on the forums and other outside sources, I believe that Gog/Magog is the Antichrist final invasion wipeout of Israel. The nations involved in Gog/magog are the exact same nations mentioned in Revelation as the Beast from the sea, as well as the nations the AC conquerss in Daniel.

If the armies of Turkey, Iran, Libya, Sudan are destroyed beforehand, then how will the Beast from the Sea be of any threat to anyone on earth. Beast from sea = land of Turkey, Iran, Iraq. 3 of its subdued horns were Egypt, Libya, Sudan. How can it rise and trample down the nations when God already destroyed them once.
"It is not who I am...But what I do that defines me" -Batman, Batman Begins
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Re: Putin Gog/Magog?

Postby Exit40 on Fri Oct 02, 2015 6:47 am

The alliances are not correct for a gog/magog scenario. Russia may have people in the area, but they are not mentioned significantly, except from the far north of Turkey. This is literally a mess when compared to who Scripture says will be aligned. I suspect Syria will become a more stable nation, well, for the ME anyway, and then we will see alliances start to form up resembling what people are saying is happening now, namely Isaiah 17. As there is no kingdom in Damascus right now, there can be no attack there that is fulfillment. Isaiah 17 is an important Prophecy, the kingdom spoken of there is probably going to be significant to the entire area, and Israel as well. But, it is not here yet.

Pray for those poor people over there, they have been through so much already.

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Re: Putin Gog/Magog?

Postby extravagantchristian on Fri Oct 02, 2015 8:01 am

Exit40 wrote:The alliances are not correct for a gog/magog scenario. Russia may have people in the area, but they are not mentioned significantly, except from the far north of Turkey. This is literally a mess when compared to who Scripture says will be aligned. I suspect Syria will become a more stable nation, well, for the ME anyway, and then we will see alliances start to form up resembling what people are saying is happening now, namely Isaiah 17. As there is no kingdom in Damascus right now, there can be no attack there that is fulfillment. Isaiah 17 is an important Prophecy, the kingdom spoken of there is probably going to be significant to the entire area, and Israel as well. But, it is not here yet.

Pray for those poor people over there, they have been through so much already.

God Bless

David


Im not so sure about that...

1. when I read ez 38, I see no translation for who those countries may be. I've seen people try to translate it but it seems like a lot of speculation and very little facts. What we do know for sure is that Russia and Iran will be part of that coalition, which we see happening today.

2.The coalition isn't done forming. Last news I heard, it included Russia, Iran, Iraq, and likely MORE countries. So it's not set in stone yet.

3. When I read EZ. 38-39, I see what MAY be an extended war, like maybe it'll start out at the beginning of the 70th week, then pause for a period of time for "peace" and then fire up again at the end.

4. as far as Isaiah 17, The word "kingdom" is used alot in the Bible, but I think it may just be an old fashion word for "government" Damascus IS the capital of Syria and According to wikipedia, the Presidential Palace where Assad lives is in Damascus. Sounds like a kingdom to me,

I think it's too soon to tell exactly how this is going to turn out. You have to admit, the timing of this with the blood moons is pretty impressive. Even if this is not the start of the 70th week, it could have a major impact on Israel, with being so close by. The blood moons could be a signal of danger to Israel, that doesn't necessarily have to be end times related.

ANd you know, look at the whole picture... I still think the rainbow coming out of the freedom tower on the eve of 9/11 (after rainbow colors on white house) + the crane falling on worlds largest mosque on 9/11, i think that was all a sign that something big is about to happen in the Muslim world. This new coalition paves the way for the rise of Islam on earth. No doubt that Iran is greatly emboldened now that Russia is on their side. This new alliance could symbolize a major shift in power.
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Re: Putin Gog/Magog?

Postby Mr Baldy on Fri Oct 02, 2015 8:45 pm

extravagantchristian wrote: Even if this is not the start of the 70th week


This comment illustrates a very interesting point. I find it very interesting that Russia has come to Syria, and a new period of the ENP began in 2014 and will end 2020. Some still want to rule this very key piece of Evidence out, and jettison it over the side.

HOWEVER:

As things pertain to the End of this Age: If one were to keep in mind that when the Disciples came to Jesus "privately", and asked Him:

1) When will these things happen? - (Matthew 24:3)
2) What will be the Sign of Your Coming? - (Matthew 24:3)
3) And the End of the Age? (Matthew 24:3)

The 70th week works in conjunction with a Covenant with Many that has been "CONFIRMED". Well, lest we forget - the ENP has been confirmed. A renewal of this same original ENP commenced in 2014. Some want to tie in the "Blood Moons". Well, stop looking at those Moons.....it's over. Please continue to look at something that is viable - and that's the ENP. Folks, it is literally a "Covenant with Many" - and always has been since it's inception.

We now have Putin - who I truly believe is Gog as spoken of in Scripture; invading Syria. The Russian troops will NOT leave anytime soon. This will lead to something much greater than we all can imagine. Something will have to be done at some point as he (Putin) begins to become more and more aggressive in the Middle East. What will have to come to past is the coming Antichrist coming to power to challenge Putin's or (Gog's) territorial influence in the Middle East.

Russia's invasion into Syria is no 'temporary' thing. It is the beginning of the End. Damascus will be destroyed as indicated in Isaiah 17. The migration of immigrants in the Middle East is not just happening by chance.

Folks please open up your eyes, and get into the Word of God.
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Re: Putin Gog/Magog?

Postby Exit40 on Sat Oct 03, 2015 8:17 am

extravagantchristian wrote:1. when I read ez 38, I see no translation for who those countries may be. I've seen people try to translate it but it seems like a lot of speculation and very little facts. What we do know for sure is that Russia and Iran will be part of that coalition, which we see happening today.


We are told which peoples will be involved and the descendants of those people today are in muslim countries surrounding Israel. If there is nothing but speculation and very little facts, how can Russia be a named nation > Iran is Persia, or at least part of Iran. It's still the people groups, that we are told.

2.The coalition isn't done forming. Last news I heard, it included Russia, Iran, Iraq, and likely MORE countries. So it's not set in stone yet.


It is very early in this situation. What happens in the long run is what we are interested in. If this is to be gog/magog it will become more evident as time progresses.

3. When I read EZ. 38-39, I see what MAY be an extended war, like maybe it'll start out at the beginning of the 70th week, then pause for a period of time for "peace" and then fire up again at the end.


I see that possibility too.

4. as far as Isaiah 17, The word "kingdom" is used alot in the Bible, but I think it may just be an old fashion word for "government" Damascus IS the capital of Syria and According to wikipedia, the Presidential Palace where Assad lives is in Damascus. Sounds like a kingdom to me,


Syria's govt is in shambles, that is why Russia is in there. Assad is more a Putinesque thug than islamic, his future is still not guaranteed. If Putin wants him gone he will be gone. Who knows at this point how it will go, if it will turn out to be a forerunner of an attack on Israel. There's more to it than just a word kingdom, Israel is involved, as it seems the invading forces will be routed out of Israel and all the area is ruined, including the destruction of Damascus.

I think it's too soon to tell exactly how this is going to turn out. You have to admit, the timing of this with the blood moons is pretty impressive. Even if this is not the start of the 70th week, it could have a major impact on Israel, with being so close by. The blood moons could be a signal of danger to Israel, that doesn't necessarily have to be end times related.


There is no Scripture anywhere that clearly states what begins the 70th week and when. There is no specific sign in Scripture that alludes to today's events. We are at this point speculation and assuming. Yet, this is significant and should not be overlooked, simply for the facts of the events, and no other reason. This has been building for some time, mostly unnoticed, except for those who watch the eastern wall. It has been building for almost five years, and the sign, if you need one, has been the Arab spring. Once started in Syria, that was the beginning of this present situation. The 'sign' before that one that pointed to this possibility was, the US failure to support the Green Revolution in the '09 election in Iran, an offshoot of the Apology tour of our president perhaps, but it was obvious from that point the US was abandoning it's effort over there. An emboldened Iran thus set about it's work, it's self admitted end time work. If another ''sign' is needed, the unconditional pullout of the US from Iraq is it. One after another theses things have gone by nearly unnoticed in the Prophetic circles. They were talked about some, but in the context of the day only. Frankly, I am a little surprised it took this long to form up. But here it is. It can be spoken simply too, nature abhors a vacuum, which is what US foreign policy has done there. Opened the doors for today's events. While this may seem prophetic, and it certainly does to me, we don't know how long we have until the gog/magog invasion begins. Truthfully, I have thought it may have begun with isis running rampant through Iraq and Syria, a ' land with no walls or gates and bars on it's towns and cities '. The word for horses is cuwt, which means to flit about like a swallow and cover much ground in the process, pretty much what isis did to that land, isn't it ? No doubt that is how the invasion of Israel will look, Judea first, then the rest of the land eventually. Is this in the near future ? There is no indication it is, although we can certainly be suspicious as it may be the forming of that situation now. Time will tell, lets be patient and wait to see.

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Re: Putin Gog/Magog?

Postby extravagantchristian on Sat Oct 03, 2015 10:51 am

The fact that Syria's govt is in shambles proves that the kingdom is on its way down. The destruction of Damascus could be more of a process thanan overnight thing.
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Re: Putin Gog/Magog?

Postby extravagantchristian on Sat Oct 03, 2015 11:36 am

We could go back even further and say that 9/11 was the trigger to the end, since that lead to the destabilization ofthe middle east, but still, the Russian lead air strikes began on the day after the final blood moon.

Question is, who is going to destroy Damascus? Probably not Putin. Probably Israel. Which makes sense since Isaiah 17 says that Israel will be connected to the destruction of Damascus. With all those Iranian troops in Israel's back yard, I'm sure they'll get sucked in before too long. Putin says he plans on being there for several months. It's going to be a long winter for Israel.
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Re: Putin Gog/Magog?

Postby Exit40 on Sun Oct 04, 2015 6:41 am

extravagantchristian wrote:The fact that Syria's govt is in shambles proves that the kingdom is on its way down. The destruction of Damascus could be more of a process thanan overnight thing.


Hi EC. The following verse says it's virtually overnight, the destruction that is.

Isa 17:14
And behold at eveningtide trouble; and before the morning he is not. This is the portion of them that spoil us, and the lot of them that rob us.


God Bless You

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Re: Putin Gog/Magog?

Postby Exit40 on Sun Oct 04, 2015 7:00 am

extravagantchristian wrote:We could go back even further and say that 9/11 was the trigger to the end, since that lead to the destabilization ofthe middle east, but still, the Russian lead air strikes began on the day after the final blood moon.

Question is, who is going to destroy Damascus? Probably not Putin. Probably Israel. Which makes sense since Isaiah 17 says that Israel will be connected to the destruction of Damascus. With all those Iranian troops in Israel's back yard, I'm sure they'll get sucked in before too long. Putin says he plans on being there for several months. It's going to be a long winter for Israel.


Hi EC. Well, we can go back to Ishmael being thrown out of Abraham's camp, or Esau feeling robbed of his inheritance. They are the founding fathers of the people groups who are indicated in the Prophecy's, as the ones who are against Israel. I believe it is the Lord Himself who destroys Damascus, and the rest of Syria. And I believe it is on the DOTL that He does this. Or very close to it. Other Scriptures, such as Ezekiel 38 & 39, point to the Lord being recognized as the one True God in that day. Here is the one from Isaiah 17.

Isa 17:7
At that day shall a man look to his Maker, and his eyes shall have respect to the Holy One of Israel.


Here is just one from Ezekiel 38.

Eze 38:23
Thus will I magnify myself, and sanctify myself; and I will be known in the eyes of many nations, and they shall know that I am the LORD.


I don't want to get into the tetrad blood moons as I believe they have been proven to be false signs and indicate nothing. I believe the real signs in the sun and moon are supernatural, and cannot be predicted in regularity, as the tetrads can be which are natural.

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And Grace, my fears relieved.
How precious did that Grace appear
The hour I first believed.
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Re: Putin Gog/Magog?

Postby kirthril on Mon Oct 05, 2015 2:20 pm

Ezekiel 38New International Version (NIV)

The Lord’s Great Victory Over the Nations

38 The word of the Lord came to me: 2 “Son of man, set your face against Gog, of the land of Magog, the chief prince of[a] Meshek and Tubal;

This is why Putin is not Gog and Russia Magog. Read Genesis after the flood. 4 of the descendants of Japeth were Magog, Tubal, Meshek, and Gomer. Togarmah was the son of Gomer. Japeth and his clans settled in Asia Minor, Turkey.

The key words in 38:2 is land of. Where is the land of Magog? A region of Asia Minor. The verse does not say the decendants or the people of Magog. But those who are in the land that Magog settled. Meshek, Tubal, Gomer, all in asia minor. Not Germany or Georgia, Moscow or Tobolisk. Ezekiel is talking of the geopolitical regions as he understood them.
What region of the world was known by these names in Ezekiel's time? Asia minor.

I don't think you can use migration or bloodlines when it comes to this. Too much intermarrying, too many gaps and contridictions in historical records to tell who went where and for how long and which historian is lying and who is truthful. Heck, going by bloodlines one can make the case that America (mostly Caucasian descendants of japeth) is part of this invasion.

Bible says, from the LAND of Magog. Magog settled in Asia Minor.
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Re: Putin Gog/Magog?

Postby Mr Baldy on Mon Oct 05, 2015 5:12 pm

kirthril wrote:Putin is not Gog and Russia Magog.


No disrespect Kirthril,

But I certainly hope that you have not brought into the whole Joel Richardson - the Land of Turkey Islamic Antichrist Theory. There are too many holes in that theory to even seriously debate. While I wholeheartedly disagree with an Islamic Antichrist - with love, I will not throw stones at my brothers in Christ who believe this.

All I will say at this point is to "Stay Tuned".......as the situation in Syria is FAR from over!

Watch and see...... there are many things to come, just as the World Turns & it's Absolute bearing of "Truth" concerning Climate Change. :mrgreen:
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Re: Putin Gog/Magog?

Postby Finaldash on Mon Oct 05, 2015 10:07 pm

"Stay Tuned"

Also talking about the ENP! Sounding a bit like Herb, Mr. Baldy. :)
I'm glad you guys are still here my friends. ENP I thought was one sure thing, when it didn't come about the first time, that took the wind off my eschatology sails. I still check here once in every blue moon though.

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Re: Putin Gog/Magog?

Postby kirthril on Tue Oct 06, 2015 12:35 am

Joel Richardson has nothing to do with this. And I believe I have only ever read 1 article ever from his site. I simply used Genesis to find out where Jepeth and his sons settled. It is known fact they settled in Asia minor. From there they spread into Europe and Russia. Hams sons went south and spread eventually into Arabia and Africa, this is known fact. The sons of Shem became the semites, known fact. Using bloodlines to figure where the modern day descendants are would drag Europe maybe even America into Ezekiel 38, since the decendants of japeth are mainly the Caucasian race.
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Re: Putin Gog/Magog?

Postby Abiding in His Word on Tue Oct 06, 2015 8:36 am

This The Table of Nations: Genesis Chapters 10-11 may be of some help in this discussion.
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Re: Putin Gog/Magog?

Postby Mr Baldy on Tue Oct 06, 2015 6:20 pm

kirthril wrote:The key words in 38:2 is land of. Where is the land of Magog? A region of Asia Minor. The verse does not say the decendants or the people of Magog. But those who are in the land that Magog settled. Meshek, Tubal, Gomer, all in asia minor. Not Germany or Georgia, Moscow or Tobolisk. Ezekiel is talking of the geopolitical regions as he understood them.What region of the world was known by these names in Ezekiel's time? Asia minor.


Kirthril you have wrote the aforementioned. Now lets put things into perspective.

This is what Ezekiel 38 states concerning the Prophecy about Gog:

Prophecy about Gog and Future Invasion of Israel

38) And the word of the Lord came to me saying, 2) “Son of man, set your face toward Gog of the land of Magog, the prince of Rosh, Meshech and Tubal, and prophesy against him 3) and say, ‘Thus says the Lord God, “Behold, I am against you, O Gog, prince of Rosh, Meshech and Tubal. 4) I will turn you about and put hooks into your jaws, and I will bring you out, and all your army, horses and horsemen, all of them splendidly attired, a great company with buckler and shield, all of them wielding swords; 5) Persia, Ethiopia and Put with them, all of them with shield and helmet; 6) Gomer with all its troops; Beth-togarmah from the remote parts of the north with all its troops—many peoples with you.



Kirthril, I believe that you miss a very key element in your given interpretation. The Ezekiel 38 Prophecy is against GOG - who is a man. It further only references the "land of Magog" as a place he is "of" or from - which according to the map that Abiding has supplied - is Russia; being North of Asia Minor. It does not state or mention anything about where the "descendants settled" as it is totally irrelevant. And you have limited this attack to Asia Minor only - which is not just limited to this area.

Again, the Prophecy only relates to a specific man - the man is GOG. He is listed as "prince" of the specific lands of Asia Minor - which would be modern day Turkey - but GOG is not "of" these lands. The Prophecy also includes the lands of Gomer or Germany and parts of Europe according to the map, which also will be included in this attack. Unless, either I am reading the map wrong; or the map is wrong in itself.

Perhaps he is mentioned as "prince" of the lands of Asia Minor that are included; because he unites or is the head of a modern day coalition named as the aforementioned nations: "Rosh; Meshech & Tubal" prior to the attack. This would only be a guess on my part - but most assuredly the Prophecy is about a man - and many nations that come together, and not limited to a certain region.
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Re: Putin Gog/Magog?

Postby Exit40 on Wed Oct 07, 2015 8:04 am

Hi Mr Baldy. The word ' rosh ' is not a nation, but rather it is a title, that being the head, or chief of something.

Got a question for you, are there any muslims in Europe ? Are they creating any problems there ? Are there any msulims in Russia ? Are they creating any problems there ? The answer is yes on both counts, but it is handled differently in Russia, where there is little tolerance for terrorism that comes from islam. Yes Chechnya has a large troublesome muslim population, largely quiet right now because of getting hammered by Russia. But keep an eye on the Stans, at least n the not too distant future, whihc are under Russian influence. Germany, France, and Spain have their issues too, but tolerance and multiculturalism have allowed this to get out of hand. These peoples, muslims, are the true enemies of God. Westernized muslims are not considered true muslims as they are too lax in their codes for personal behavior and political law, forbidden in the koran. This is why so many muslims in EU countries do not assimilate into the national culture, it's warm and fuzzy humanity is considered a danger to muslims. Converted westerners with the odd exception are not muslim enough either. Ask a muslim in the EU, what are you, and the answer will be I am muslim first, then I am Turk, or I am Arab, or I am Persian, or label themselves to be of the peoples of the lands mentioned in Ezekiel. Ask anyone for that matter, where they come from and they can talk about their ancestry for many generations, and no doubt with a bit of pride. Muslims even more so as they believe their god gives them special privileges over other peoples. I imagine Jews do also to some extent. Not all of course, but however many do, that is how they define themselves. So gog being 'of ' the land of magog is completely accurate in that vernacular. Your definition excludes this, but I ask you to consider something I have been thinking about for a long time.

Turkey has been a EU aspirant for some time, but recently this has fallen by the wayside. Consider if this present situation gets resolved somewhat peacefully in a few years, would Turkey again pursue membership ? This is quite a ways off likely, and would require extremist islamists to be quelled, with islam presenting itself again to the world as the 'religion of peace', but this time better at proving it. Now look at how the EU govt is formed up, and consider how over time peaceful muslims can end up running the show. This means gog and magog are not in our near future, we may think it has happened but that would be part of the deception.

Look Mr B, you are far better at the RRE EU paradigm than I, but I can see how the islamic paradigm is alive and welland I believe will be until the return of Christ, and that perhaps today's events are not what we might think. Consider the possibility of an islamic dominated EU govt mechanism and how that might play out in the future, say over the next generation or so.

Didn't proof read this, as I gotta run.
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Re: Putin Gog/Magog?

Postby kirthril on Wed Oct 07, 2015 8:53 am

Kirthril, I believe that you miss a very key element in your given interpretation. The Ezekiel 38 Prophecy is against GOG - who is a man. It further only references the "land of Magog" as a place he is "of" or from - which according to the map that Abiding has supplied - is Russia; being North of Asia Minor. It does not state or mention anything about where the "descendants settled" as it is totally irrelevant. And you have limited this attack to Asia Minor only - which is not just limited to this area.

Yep, problem is, and I went to joel's site to see his view on this, and he has 5 different maps showing the locals in turkey as well as maps that show these locals in Russa/Europe.

So the dilemma is that some think parts of Europe and Russia are involved while some show Asia minor as the lead. So then one must ask the question "Why the name Magog and where does it come from?" And from genesis we get the answer, Magog was one of the clans that moved northward into asia minor. In fact the bible says that the descendants of Japeth settled the coastlands. Coastlands of what? Asia minor. Its practically a peninsula.

The reason I say you can't follow the descendants is because of intermarrying of bloodlines and nations and because of migration itself. What if 100million americans moved to Canada. Would Canada then be called America? No. the original land will always be known by its original name. And the new land as something else. I do not think God would call Russia Magog when there is already a known place called magog. Just like Mystery Babylon is not simply called Babylon, its because its 2 different places.

Again, the Prophecy only relates to a specific man - the man is GOG. He is listed as "prince" of the specific lands of Asia Minor - which would be modern day Turkey - but GOG is not "of" these lands. The Prophecy also includes the lands of Gomer or Germany and parts of Europe according to the map, which also will be included in this attack. Unless, either I am reading the map wrong; or the map is wrong in itself.

Yep agreed. But "prince" not "king". Gog, like the AC (or should they be one in the same) is not the leader of a nation but a co-leader or 2nd in command. Putin, is king. The AC as well will not be givin the honor of royalty, but rises up among 10 established kings.

Lastly, I have seen numerous linguistic commentaries regarding the bible that many bible prophecy teachers do the biggest no-no when figuring out language meanings. And that is, just because it sounds or looks the same doesn't mean it is. Gomer/Germany, Tubal/tobolisk, Mesheck/Moscow, rosh/Russia. Big mistake, Rosh=Russia should show why you do not do so. Rosh = chief or head not a nation.
....

I too used to be of the Russia = Magog using the very same reasoning you are. But questions were asked of me about Ezekiel 38/39 and my answers could not stand.

For example If Gog/Magog happens before the AC rises, and God clearly states that the nations will now know him and his name will be slandered no more... then wouldn't that be a lie since that's exactly what the AC and the world in general continue doing for 7 years? I couldn't give a logical answer. I said "he meant among the Hebrews", reply... "where does it say slandered no more among my people"?

This is why my view has changed to Gog/Magog being either the final battles of Armageddon itself, or the entire 3.5yr war campaign of the AC.
:itsgood: we will see either way, im just excited its happening.
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Re: Putin Gog/Magog?

Postby Mr Baldy on Wed Oct 07, 2015 9:15 am

Exit40 wrote:Now look at how the EU govt is formed up, and consider how over time peaceful muslims can end up running the show.


Hi David,

I agree with most of what you have said about the Muslims. However, I see no Islamic paradigm in the near future, or ever - therefore I see no way that even "Peaceful Muslims" can ever run the EU show. And if there are these so-called "Peaceful Muslims" that are a part of the EU Government - then as you have mentioned they will not be "True Muslims" and it will be a Ruse of some sort.

You are right to believe that I strongly believe in the RRE EU paradigm. I also believe that Turkey will someday become a part of the EU because of what the EU has to offer. Free trade between the EU and Turkey would open doors that one could never imagine. Now, in mentioning that of course Turkey would have to adhere to EU standards and laws. I also believe that Islam as a whole is being radically changed - and it's happening right before our very eyes.

I further believe that what we are seeing right now in Syria is what has been predicted to happen in Isaiah 17. And I also believe that Putin is "Gog" - who is mentioned in Scripture.

David, I look at the facts. After the whole "Left Behind" series, and having an erroneous belief of the Pre-Tribulation Rapture nonsense - I have vowed to never allow things that cannot be supported with Scripture to influence my studies. There are way too many things that people are choosing to ignore that has in my very humble opinion been fulfilled - and can be supported by Scripture to just simply fall for a particular paradigm just because I may "feel" a certain way.

I truly believe that when the WEU became defunct - it literally fulfilled Revelation 17:11-13. I currently believe that Isaiah 17 is currently being carried out as well. I do not see an Islamic Antichrist - and nor do I see an End Time "One World Religion" or two End Time players such as the Antichrist and a so-called "False Prophet". I know that what I believe may be a bit strange to others - but I don't care. I'm just following Scripture to the best of my ability and the Evidence.

If one were to look at the World today - I really don't see how they can actually believe that we have a lot of time left before the return of Christ. Not trying to promote fear, but honestly looking at what Scripture has called us to look for, and trust me it's there. It's no wonder Christ Himself said that He would Return at a time that we think not.

Mathew 24:44:

For this reason you also must be ready; for the Son of Man is coming at an hour when you do not think He will.


And

Luke 12:40:

You too, be ready; for the Son of Man is coming at an hour that you do not expect.


In closing David, I have included the aforementioned quotes of Scripture because they deeply apply. We often go through this life not thinking about when we will actually stand face to face with our Creator. Death often falls on many unexpectedly. If we truly belong to Him - we will either be with Him in spirit at His Appearing as he descends from Heaven; or we will be "Caught Up" with Him moments after if we are alive at His Coming. Nevertheless, one never knows - so we must always be prepared.
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Re: Putin Gog/Magog?

Postby Mr Baldy on Wed Oct 07, 2015 9:43 am

kirthril wrote:For example If Gog/Magog happens before the AC rises, and God clearly states that the nations will now know him and his name will be slandered no more... then wouldn't that be a lie since that's exactly what the AC and the world in general continue doing for 7 years?


Hi Kirthril,

I'm not so sure that that the Prophecy concerning Gog does not happen before the rise of the AC - and for the record, I do not believe that Gog is one and the same as the AC. Not to mention, I see nowhere in Scripture where the AC will actually rule for 7 years.

kirthril wrote:This is why my view has changed to Gog/Magog being either the final battles of Armageddon itself, or the entire 3.5yr war campaign of the AC.


I believe that the Gog invasion of Israel - (that's what I prefer to call it) will be prior to and possibly inclusive into the battle of Armageddon. Gog however, is not the AC.

Please consider this one thing as well: When viewing Revelation 13 we have a Beast from the Land, and one from the Sea. Most want to rule out the Fact that the 1st Beast is truly an Empire. They subsequently get that confused and attempt to incorporate it as being a man - not knowing it could be an Empire that is carrying out Bible Prophecy; prior to the actual rise of the AC. I believe that this Beast Empire is responsible for setting things up for the arrival of the AC. If this theory of mine turns out to be True - then "Stay Tune" because things are truly about to get ugly.
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Re: Putin Gog/Magog?

Postby kirthril on Thu Oct 08, 2015 3:01 pm

I'm not so sure that that the Prophecy concerning Gog does not happen before the rise of the AC - and for the record, I do not believe that Gog is one and the same as the AC. Not to mention, I see nowhere in Scripture where the AC will actually rule for 7 years.

yes this is the direction I lean now. It will be an invasion that encompasses some, all, or the end of the 3.5 years. By 7 years, I mean that (lets be real), the AC and the world in general will always be slanderous towards God. Its not like the AC or the world will all of a sudden just start cursing God at year 3.5 when they have been doing it everyday throughout history.

I believe that the Gog invasion of Israel - (that's what I prefer to call it) will be prior to and possibly inclusive into the battle of Armageddon. Gog however, is not the AC.
Still on the fence on this. I have read theories that 38 one war, and 39 is Armageddon. Parallel battles having the same end result. I am leaning on Gog being the AC, because of the Islamic Paradigm, which I know you disagree with, but its all good. Either way, exciting to watch.
Please consider this one thing as well: When viewing Revelation 13 we have a Beast from the Land, and one from the Sea. Most want to rule out the Fact that the 1st Beast is truly an Empire. They subsequently get that confused and attempt to incorporate it as being a man - not knowing it could be an Empire that is carrying out Bible Prophecy; prior to the actual rise of the AC. I believe that this Beast Empire is responsible for setting things up for the arrival of the AC. If this theory of mine turns out to be True - then "Stay Tune" because things are truly about to get ugly.
I am very familiar with these sets of verses, I had no idea people thought that the beast from sea was not a empire. Should it not be obvious? It is the beast from the sea from which I have arrived at the Islamic paradigm. Mouth of a lion, body of leopard, claws/feet of bear. The same 3 beasts mentioned in Daniel, the 4th Daniel did not describe other than it was the final one that will trample the earth. John saw that 4th beast. We know from eschatology that the lion was Babylon (Iraq), the bear that favored one of its sides was Media-Persia (Iran), and the leopard whose 4 wings grew in four directions was the Greek empire after Alexander the Great (Asia minor +Greece). Those 3 make up the main body and are the most important, which is why they are mentioned and not the other 7 who also form it. They are all muslim.
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Re: Putin Gog/Magog?

Postby Seeker on Tue Dec 08, 2015 8:04 pm

Hi Findaldash,

Is there a possibility that all the pieces are in place for an Ezekiel 38 or Gog/Magog scenario at some point? Especially what it seems to me a strengthening of Russia's influence in the region and the numbing and dumbing of the US?


There are many perspectives on Eze 38-39 as you have seen. Many times I find it helpful to go to the end of the story and work back from there to better understand what is being conveyed in a section or chapters of scripture. I look for known timing events that I can cross reference back to other scriptures. The other scriptures provide additional information and new clues usually. Almost like detective work in a way. So let's go to the end of Ezekiel 38-39 to see how the story ends.

Eze 39:21 And I will set my glory among the heathen, and all the heathen shall see my judgment that I have executed, and my hand that I have laid upon them.
Eze 39:22 So the house of Israel shall know that I am the LORD their God from that day and forward.
Eze 39:23 And the heathen shall know that the house of Israel went into captivity for their iniquity: because they trespassed against me, therefore hid I my face from them, and gave them into the hand of their enemies: so fell they all by the sword.
Eze 39:24 According to their uncleanness and according to their transgressions have I done unto them, and hid my face from them.
Eze 39:25 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Now will I bring again the captivity of Jacob, and have mercy upon the whole house of Israel, and will be jealous for my holy name;
Eze 39:26 After that they have borne their shame, and all their trespasses whereby they have trespassed against me, when they dwelt safely in their land, and none made them afraid.
Eze 39:27 When I have brought them again from the people, and gathered them out of their enemies' lands, and am sanctified in them in the sight of many nations;
Eze 39:28 Then shall they know that I am the LORD their God, which caused them to be led into captivity among the heathen: but I have gathered them unto their own land, and have left none of them any more there.
Eze 39:29 Neither will I hide my face any more from them: for I have poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel, saith the Lord GOD.


The story ends with the defeat of Gog. All the heathen will see the judgment that God has executed upon Gog and company. The whole house of Israel will know the Lord is their God from that day forward. The heathen will know that Israel went into captivity because they trespassed against God who gave them into the hands of their enemies. God will have mercy upon the whole house of Israel and be jealous for His Holy name.

He gathers them to their own land and sanctifies them in the sight of many nations. They will know it was God who led them into captivity among the heathen but has gathered them back into their own land. Neither will He hide His face any more from them for He has poured His spirit upon the house of Israel. That is the conclusion of the Gog war. There is only one time frame that works for all those conditions and that is the Gog war ending at the end of the last 7 years.

The end of the Gog war is very easy to determine. The beginning is another story altogether. I really don't have to know when it starts knowing that it ends at the end of the last 7 years tells me it is the AC because he invades Israel and is defeated in Israel at the end of the last 7 years also. Either there are two different invasions defeated in Israel at the end of the last 7 years or Gog and the AC are one and the same.

Many think Eze 38 and 39 are diffent invasions or phases of the same invasion. So again let's see how the Eze 38 portion of the story ends.

Eze 38:18 And it shall come to pass at the same time when Gog shall come against the land of Israel, saith the Lord GOD, that my fury shall come up in my face.
Eze 38:19 For in my jealousy and in the fire of my wrath have I spoken, Surely in that day there shall be a great shaking in the land of Israel;
Eze 38:20 So that the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the heaven, and the beasts of the field, and all creeping things that creep upon the earth, and all the men that are upon the face of the earth, shall shake at my presence, and the mountains shall be thrown down, and the steep places shall fall, and every wall shall fall to the ground.
Eze 38:21 And I will call for a sword against him throughout all my mountains, saith the Lord GOD: every man's sword shall be against his brother.
Eze 38:22 And I will plead against him with pestilence and with blood; and I will rain upon him, and upon his bands, and upon the many people that are with him, an overflowing rain, and great hailstones, fire, and brimstone.


At the same time that Gog invades Israel God's fury comes up in His face. There will be great shaking in the land of Israel and every creature, critter, and human will shake at the presence of God. The mountains will be thrown down, the steep places fall, and every wall falls to the ground. Great hailstones, fire, and brimstone. The events that are spoken of here are clearly apocolyptic in nature and indeed parallels can be found in the book of Revelation.

Rev 16:18 And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great.
Rev 16:19 And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.
Rev 16:20 And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.
Rev 16:21 And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great.


We also see the feast mentioned in Rev.

Rev 19:17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
Rev 19:18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.

Eze 39:17 And, thou son of man, thus saith the Lord GOD; Speak unto every feathered fowl, and to every beast of the field, Assemble yourselves, and come; gather yourselves on every side to my sacrifice that I do sacrifice for you, even a great sacrifice upon the mountains of Israel, that ye may eat flesh, and drink blood.
Eze 39:18 Ye shall eat the flesh of the mighty, and drink the blood of the princes of the earth, of rams, of lambs, and of goats, of bullocks, all of them fatlings of Bashan.
Eze 39:19 And ye shall eat fat till ye be full, and drink blood till ye be drunken, of my sacrifice which I have sacrificed for you.
Eze 39:20 Thus ye shall be filled at my table with horses and chariots, with mighty men, and with all men of war, saith the Lord GOD.


The similarities are uncanny to say the least. The timing of the Gog invasion can be seen to end at the end of the last 7 years in both Eze 38 and Eze 39 leading me to conclude they are two versions of the same events with different details in both accounts. Add both together for the full story basically is my view. So our timing provides evidence toward the Gog=AC conclusion. There is even more direct proof of that fact in Ezekiel 38 as well.

Eze 38:17 Thus saith the Lord GOD; Art thou he of whom I have spoken in old time by my servants the prophets of Israel, which prophesied in those days many years that I would bring thee against them?

God tells us that He has spoken of Gog in old time by His servants the prophets of Israel. The great thing about that is that we have the writtings of the prophets of old in the OT to reference. All we need to do is find someone matching Gog's description in the prophets of old writings that we have. So what do we know about Gog?

We know he invades Israel at the end of the last 7 years and is defeated in Israel. We know that after he is defeated God pours His spirit upon Israel and they know He is their Lord God from that day forward. We know God gathers Israel back to Israel at that time for ever after. Sounds like a familair theme from the OT to me so let's take a look.

Isa 10:20 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the remnant of Israel, and such as are escaped of the house of Jacob, shall no more again stay upon him that smote them; but shall stay upon the LORD, the Holy One of Israel, in truth.
Isa 10:21 The remnant shall return, even the remnant of Jacob, unto the mighty God.


Here we see Israel returning to the Lord and before that we see this.

Isa 10:5 O Assyrian, the rod of mine anger, and the staff in their hand is mine indignation.

Isa 10:16 Therefore shall the Lord, the Lord of hosts, send among his fat ones leanness; and under his glory he shall kindle a burning like the burning of a fire.
Isa 10:17 And the light of Israel shall be for a fire, and his Holy One for a flame: and it shall burn and devour his thorns and his briers in one day;


We see the AC used to punish Israel and then see him destroyed followed by the remnant returning to their God. So AC makes war against Israel just as Gog does and is also followed by Israel returning to the Lord.

Dan 11:44 But tidings out of the east and out of the north shall trouble him: therefore he shall go forth with great fury to destroy, and utterly to make away many.
Dan 11:45 And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.
Dan 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.


AC destroyed in Israel with Israel being delivered at that time.

Isa 11:8 And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den.
Isa 11:9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.
Isa 11:10 And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious.
Isa 11:11 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea.
Isa 11:12 And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.


Here we see millennial language in connection with Israel being gathered from where she had been dispersed to the 4 corners of the earth. Israel's gathering together as we see in Eze 38-39 is always associated with the end of the last 7 years or beginning of the millennium that we see in 11:8 above.

Joe 3:9 Proclaim ye this among the Gentiles; Prepare war, wake up the mighty men, let all the men of war draw near; let them come up:
Joe 3:10 Beat your plowshares into swords, and your pruninghooks into spears: let the weak say, I am strong.
Joe 3:11 Assemble yourselves, and come, all ye heathen, and gather yourselves together round about: thither cause thy mighty ones to come down, O LORD.
Joe 3:12 Let the heathen be wakened, and come up to the valley of Jehoshaphat: for there will I sit to judge all the heathen round about.
Joe 3:13 Put ye in the sickle, for the harvest is ripe: come, get you down; for the press is full, the fats overflow; for their wickedness is great.
Joe 3:14 Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision: for the day of the LORD is near in the valley of decision.
Joe 3:15 The sun and the moon shall be darkened, and the stars shall withdraw their shining.
Joe 3:16 The LORD also shall roar out of Zion, and utter his voice from Jerusalem; and the heavens and the earth shall shake: but the LORD will be the hope of his people, and the strength of the children of Israel.
Joe 3:17 So shall ye know that I am the LORD your God dwelling in Zion, my holy mountain: then shall Jerusalem be holy, and there shall no strangers pass through her any more.
Joe 3:18 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the mountains shall drop down new wine, and the hills shall flow with milk, and all the rivers of Judah shall flow with waters, and a fountain shall come forth of the house of the LORD, and shall water the valley of Shittim.
Joe 3:19 Egypt shall be a desolation, and Edom shall be a desolate wilderness, for the violence against the children of Judah, because they have shed innocent blood in their land.
Joe 3:20 But Judah shall dwell for ever, and Jerusalem from generation to generation.
Joe 3:21 For I will cleanse their blood that I have not cleansed: for the LORD dwelleth in Zion.


Joel tells the same story of an invasion into Israel with the Lord defeating the enemies of Israel and dwelling in Jerusalem with Israel from then on. In Joels account we see the cosmic signs (dark moon/sun/stars). We also find those same cosmic signs in Matthew 24 and Rev 6 further connecting the whole set of events to the end of the last 7 years and return of Jesus at Armageddon. Armageddon is basically the conclusion of the Gog war.

Zep 3:8 Therefore wait ye upon me, saith the LORD, until the day that I rise up to the prey: for my determination is to gather the nations, that I may assemble the kingdoms, to pour upon them mine indignation, even all my fierce anger: for all the earth shall be devoured with the fire of my jealousy.
Zep 3:9 For then will I turn to the people a pure language, that they may all call upon the name of the LORD, to serve him with one consent.
Zep 3:10 From beyond the rivers of Ethiopia my suppliants, even the daughter of my dispersed, shall bring mine offering.
Zep 3:11 In that day shalt thou not be ashamed for all thy doings, wherein thou hast transgressed against me: for then I will take away out of the midst of thee them that rejoice in thy pride, and thou shalt no more be haughty because of my holy mountain.
Zep 3:12 I will also leave in the midst of thee an afflicted and poor people, and they shall trust in the name of the LORD.
Zep 3:13 The remnant of Israel shall not do iniquity, nor speak lies; neither shall a deceitful tongue be found in their mouth: for they shall feed and lie down, and none shall make them afraid.
Zep 3:14 Sing, O daughter of Zion; shout, O Israel; be glad and rejoice with all the heart, O daughter of Jerusalem.
Zep 3:15 The LORD hath taken away thy judgments, he hath cast out thine enemy: the king of Israel, even the LORD, is in the midst of thee: thou shalt not see evil any more.


Zephaniah goes through the whole story pretty well. It is Gods determination to gather all nations to Israel for their defeat and then Israel is delivered and returns to the Lord. This is the same story we see in the conclusion of the Gog war. All these prophets speak of the same set of events and God tells that in Ezekiel 38:17.

Zec 12:2 Behold, I will make Jerusalem a cup of trembling unto all the people round about, when they shall be in the siege both against Judah and against Jerusalem.
Zec 12:3 And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it.
Zec 12:4 In that day, saith the LORD, I will smite every horse with astonishment, and his rider with madness: and I will open mine eyes upon the house of Judah, and will smite every horse of the people with blindness.
Zec 12:5 And the governors of Judah shall say in their heart, The inhabitants of Jerusalem shall be my strength in the LORD of hosts their God.
Zec 12:6 In that day will I make the governors of Judah like an hearth of fire among the wood, and like a torch of fire in a sheaf; and they shall devour all the people round about, on the right hand and on the left: and Jerusalem shall be inhabited again in her own place, even in Jerusalem.
Zec 12:7 The LORD also shall save the tents of Judah first, that the glory of the house of David and the glory of the inhabitants of Jerusalem do not magnify themselves against Judah.
Zec 12:8 In that day shall the LORD defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David shall be as God, as the angel of the LORD before them.
Zec 12:9 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.
Zec 12:10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.


God indeed spoke of the events we see in Ezekiel 38-39 through His servants the prophets of old. These verses we have been examining from the prophets are commonly associated with the AC and are the only accounts similar to the Gog account that I find in the OT. Gog and the AC are one and the same. Armageddon is simply the conclusion of the Gog conflict.

Peace,
Seeker
Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,
Seeker
 
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Re: Putin Gog/Magog?

Postby Mr Baldy on Fri Dec 11, 2015 1:34 pm

Seeker wrote:Gog and the AC are one and the same.


Hummmmmm :humm:

NOT according to Scripture he isn't. I'm surprised no one has caught or challenged you on your aforementioned statement Seeker.

As I was reading over your response, I noticed that you left out Ezekiel 39:11 which states:

11) “On that day I will give Gog a burial ground there in Israel, the valley of those who pass by east of the sea, and it will block off those who would pass by. So they will bury Gog there with all his horde, and they will call it the valley of Hamon-gog.


So, if Gog is buried in Israel - How can he and the coming Antichrist be "one and the same" :humm:

Isn't the AC seized and thrown into the Lake of Fire at the Coming of Christ as mentioned in Revelation 19:20 :humm:

20) And the beast was seized, and with him the false prophet who performed the signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image; these two were thrown alive into the lake of fire which burns with brimstone.


Seeker, with all due respect, this sounds like the same information that Joel Richardson was trying to prove in his very False Islamic Paradigm. The AC and Gog being one and the same is just one of the many holes in the False Islamic Antichrist Theory.
Mr Baldy
 
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Re: Putin Gog/Magog?

Postby Jay Ross on Fri Dec 11, 2015 2:07 pm

Mr Baldy wrote:<snip>

Seeker, with all due respect, this sounds like the same information that Joel Richardson was trying to prove in his very False Islamic Paradigm. The AC and Gog being one and the same is just one of the many holes in the False Islamic Antichrist Theory.


We all have our blind spots regarding Daniel 7 and also Revelation 9 - 20 with regards to the beasts and the false prophet.

However, Joel's blind spot is connected to your blind spot in that he is looking for a "person" or an "empire" that is representative of the beasts and the false prophet and the anti-christ which has the same links/history as the revived Roman Empire theories that, if my memory is not playing tricks with me, is your end time paradigm theory.

We have argued and disagreed on this before and it is not necessary for a whole lot of debate, but before you begin to throw stones at another person's theory, that you ensure that your theory is beyond reproach and is correct with respect to what the Bible clearly states concerning these entities.

It is my understanding that Islam is the religion that the fourth terrible beast of Daniel 7:1-12 encourages as his preferred religion of choice, but I suspect that he is also happy that he has a dominate influence also over the belief systems of the so called "Christian believers" and their end time understanding.

I have come to understand that Joel Richardson's end time theories are not yet quite right with respect to what is revealed in the Bible, but he has come to be the one whose theories comes closest to resembling the true End times as recorded in the scriptures even thought there are still errors in his understanding of what is still to happen.

His blind spots with regards to what is revealed in scripture concerning the end times is what is stopping him from being able to reveal what is actually going on.

Be that as it may be, Daniel was told to close his book and to seal it for the times of the end when understanding would come.

Sadly we have not yet reached that point in our history yet.
Jay Ross
 
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Re: Putin Gog/Magog?

Postby Seeker on Sat Dec 12, 2015 12:47 am

Hi Mr. Baldy,

Hummmmmm :humm:

NOT according to Scripture he isn't. I'm surprised no one has caught or challenged you on your aforementioned statement Seeker.

As I was reading over your response, I noticed that you left out Ezekiel 39:11 which states:



11) “On that day I will give Gog a burial ground there in Israel, the valley of those who pass by east of the sea, and it will block off those who would pass by. So they will bury Gog there with all his horde, and they will call it the valley of Hamon-gog.


So, if Gog is buried in Israel - How can he and the coming Antichrist be "one and the same"

Isn't the AC seized and thrown into the Lake of Fire at the Coming of Christ as mentioned in Revelation 19:20


Would you say the following verse is speaking of the AC?

Dan 7:11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.

Or this?

2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

Now back to what I posted. Tell me when the following verses takes place.

Eze 39:28 Then shall they know that I am the LORD their God, which caused them to be led into captivity among the heathen: but I have gathered them unto their own land, and have left none of them any more there.
Eze 39:29 Neither will I hide my face any more from them: for I have poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel, saith the Lord GOD.


When does God gather Israel back in their own land and pour His spirit out upon them?

Seeker, with all due respect, this sounds like the same information that Joel Richardson was trying to prove in his very False Islamic Paradigm. The AC and Gog being one and the same is just one of the many holes in the False Islamic Antichrist Theory.


You know sometimes you can be very rude Mr. Baldy and make many assumptions. I was reading another thread where you attacked Kirthril in a very similar manner. I know you haven't been here at the board that long but I arrived at the Turkey AC theory way before I ever heard of Joel Richardson. I am pretty sure you could go back into the early Turkey thread and see exactly when I did meet Joel.

He was the first person I ran into that believed very similar as I did. Joel and I differ on many things but we also agree on many things. If you have a serious beef with Joel, as it seems you do, I would suggest that you go to his site and speak with him about your disagreements with him. He has nothing to do with this conversation.

Peace,
Seeker
Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,
Seeker
 
Posts: 2165
Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 4:32 pm

Re: Putin Gog/Magog?

Postby Mr Baldy on Sat Dec 12, 2015 3:50 am

Seeker wrote:You know sometimes you can be very rude Mr. Baldy and make many assumptions. I was reading another thread where you attacked Kirthril in a very similar manner. I know you haven't been here at the board that long but I arrived at the Turkey AC theory way before I ever heard of Joel Richardson. I am pretty sure you could go back into the early Turkey thread and see exactly when I did meet Joel.


Hi Seeker,

Let me first pen that if you thought that I was rude, then I sincerely apologize. I really didn't think that any of the questions or comments that I made were rude - nor did I direct them towards you. They were only questions - and questions that were based on what you wrote. It often appears when someone disagrees with you, you get offended. I'm sorry you feel that way - many have disagreed with me, and I have never taken it "personal". As far as my time here on the board, well I don't see how that actually matters, but in looking at the time we both joined - back in 2006 it appears as if you've only been here 3 months longer than I.

Seeker wrote: If you have a serious beef with Joel, as it seems you do, I would suggest that you go to his site and speak with him about your disagreements with him.


I don't have a "beef" with Joel Richardson either, just the things he writes to sell books. In my opinion I think his Islamic Antichrist theory is ALL NONSENSE. But this is only my opinion, aren't we entitled to have one? You are somewhat right as far as him having nothing to do with this topic, however, indirectly he does - as I believe him and others that push nonsense that cannot be supported with Scripture have well meaning Believers following a "rabbit trail" that leads to deception. Again, I apologize if you thought I came across rude that was certainly not my intention.

:backtotopic:

Seeker wrote:Would you say the following verse is speaking of the AC? Dan 7:11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.


Yes, Daniel 7:11 is providing information on what happens to the coming AC at the Return of Christ.

Seeker wrote:Or this? 2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:


Again, Yes 2 Thessalonians 2:8 describes exactly what will happen to the coming AC at the Return of Christ.

Now, I don't understand your questions, as they only support what I wrote - in that you have mentioned that "Gog and the AC" are "one and the same." Well, the very passages of Scripture that you have provided don't support that theory.

I asked you to please describe how is it that Gog is BURIED as mentioned in Ezekiel 39:11 - which is in contrast to the AC being destroyed at the Coming of Christ and subsequently thrown ALIVE into the Lake of Fire?
Also mentioned in: (Revelation 19:20 & 2Thessalonians 2:8)

Please answer this.
Mr Baldy
 
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Re: Putin Gog/Magog?

Postby Seeker on Sat Dec 12, 2015 9:32 am

Hi Mr. Baldy,

You are somewhat right as far as him having nothing to do with this topic, however, indirectly he does


No Joel has nothing to do with this conversation like I say. We are discussing my thoughts Joel does not believe the same as I do regarding the 4th kingdom and AC.


Seeker wrote:
Or this? 2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

Again, Yes 2 Thessalonians 2:8 describes exactly what will happen to the coming AC at the Return of Christ.

Now, I don't understand your questions, as they only support what I wrote - in that you have mentioned that "Gog and the AC" are "one and the same." Well, the very passages of Scripture that you have provided don't support that theory.

I asked you to please describe how is it that Gog is BURIED as mentioned in Ezekiel 39:11 - which is in contrast to the AC being destroyed at the Coming of Christ and subsequently thrown ALIVE into the Lake of Fire?
Also mentioned in: (Revelation 19:20 & 2Thessalonians 2:8)


That is not correct this is what you asked.

So, if Gog is buried in Israel - How can he and the coming Antichrist be "one and the same" :humm:

Isn't the AC seized and thrown into the Lake of Fire at the Coming of Christ as mentioned in Revelation 19:20 :humm:


You have added AC being destroyed and then thrown in the lake of fire after I brought that to your attention.

Dan 7:11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.

You have an obvious problem here. He can't be slain as we see in Dan 7:11 and cast into the lake of fire alive as you claim.

Now back to my question which you have failed to address.

Eze 39:28 Then shall they know that I am the LORD their God, which caused them to be led into captivity among the heathen: but I have gathered them unto their own land, and have left none of them any more there.
Eze 39:29 Neither will I hide my face any more from them: for I have poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel, saith the Lord GOD.


When does God gather Israel back into their own land with none of them being left among the heathen?

Peace,
Seeker
Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,
Seeker
 
Posts: 2165
Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 4:32 pm

Re: Putin Gog/Magog?

Postby Mr Baldy on Sat Dec 12, 2015 10:55 am

I asked you to please describe how is it that Gog is BURIED as mentioned in Ezekiel 39:11 - which is in contrast to the AC being destroyed at the Coming of Christ and subsequently thrown ALIVE into the Lake of Fire?
Also mentioned in: (Revelation 19:20 & 2Thessalonians 2:8)


Seeker wrote:That is not correct this is what you asked:


So, if Gog is buried in Israel - How can he and the coming Antichrist be "one and the same" :humm:

Isn't the AC seized and thrown into the Lake of Fire at the Coming of Christ as mentioned in Revelation 19:20 :humm:


Seeker, let's not get this twisted please. What is the difference? Please tell me :humm:

YOU are the one who is CLAMING that the AC and Gog are "one and the same".... Not me.

Seeker wrote:You have an obvious problem here. He can't be slain as we see in Dan 7:11 and cast into the lake of fire alive as you claim.


That's the POINT Seeker. Perhaps you need to re-read what you have wrote. Again, let's not get this twisted. Gog and the AC are NOT the same that's my point.

Seeker wrote:Now back to my question which you have failed to address.


Seeker, I will not answer your question, until you reconcile you obvious error with an explanation. Please re-read what you wrote - then carefully read what I responded with. Perhaps you will understand what I conveyed - and perhaps even answer the question you have asked me. When you have done this, perhaps you will see that a response from me won't be necessary as you will have figured it out. :sunshine:
Mr Baldy
 
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Re: Putin Gog/Magog?

Postby Seeker on Sat Dec 12, 2015 12:12 pm

Hi Mr. Baldy,

I have answered your question twice now...lol. He can't be dead and alive at the same time. Is he dead before he is thrown in the lake of fire or is he alive when he is thrown in the lake of fire?

Peace,
Seeker
Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,
Seeker
 
Posts: 2165
Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 4:32 pm

Re: Putin Gog/Magog?

Postby Mr Baldy on Sat Dec 12, 2015 12:43 pm

Seeker wrote:I have answered your question twice now...lol. He can't be dead and alive at the same time. Is he dead before he is thrown in the lake of fire or is he alive when he is thrown in the lake of fire?


Seeker, No You Haven't.

Again, until you admit, and it is Very Clearly written that you have mentioned that Gog and the Antichrist are one and the same - and there in lies your problem.

Here is your statement:
Seeker wrote: Gog and the AC are one and the same.


I'm simply stating, and have been stating the entire time that Gog is very different from the Antichrist.
Mr Baldy
 
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Re: Putin Gog/Magog?

Postby Seeker on Sat Dec 12, 2015 1:10 pm

Hi Mr. Baldy,

Seeker, No You Haven't.

Again, until you admit, and it is Very Clearly written that you have mentioned that Gog and the Antichrist are one and the same - and there in lies your problem.


Of course I wrote that.... isn't that what we are discussing? I'll state it again. Gog and the AC are one and the same. That is what I am in the process of proving to you. First you say that the AC is thrown into the lake of fire alive. I show you where the AC is killed before being thrown in the lake of fire. There is an obvious difference there.

It seems to me that you are excluding Eze 39:11 on the basis that it doesn't say he is thrown into the lake of fire alive. Is that correct from your perspective? I am showing you that the AC is killed prior to being thrown into the lake of fire. If he is killed prior then his body could be buried and match Gog in Eze 39:11 thereby cancelling your objection. What other proof do you have that Gog and the AC are very different?

Now can you answer my question about the last two verses in Eze 39 as well? When does Israel return to their land?

Peace,
Seeker
Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,
Seeker
 
Posts: 2165
Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 4:32 pm

Re: Putin Gog/Magog?

Postby Mr Baldy on Sat Dec 12, 2015 4:16 pm

Seeker wrote: I show you where the AC is killed before being thrown in the lake of fire.


No Seeker, you haven't - furthermore, what your aforementioned statement is contrary to Scripture. Let's take a look at what Revelation 19:20 states:

And the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who in its presence[a] had done the signs by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped its image.These two were thrown alive into the lake of firethat burns with sulfur.


So, my question to you is: How can he be "killed before being thrown into the lake of fire" - if Revelation 19:20 clearly states that He is "thrown alive into the lake of fire"? You have a very clear and apparent contradiction to Scripture.

Seeker wrote:What other proof do you have that Gog and the AC are very different?


Seeker, I'm very glad that you have mentioned "other proof" that Gog and the Ac are not the same....here is a very clear example:

In Ezekiel 38:14-23 it is clear that Gog and his armies will come against Israel. Scripture goes on to mention that he is killed, and will be buried in the valley of Hammon-god, and for 7 months the House of Israel will be burying the dead - to "cleanse the land" from this massive slaughter that God Himself will be responsible for. Again - Please see Ezekiel 39:11-12:

11) “On that day I will give to Gog a place for burial in Israel, the Valley of the Travelers, east of the sea. It will block the travelers, for there Gog and all his multitude will be buried. It will be called the Valley of Hamon-gog. 12) For seven months the house of Israel will be burying them, in order to cleanse the land.


This massive slaughter is NOT the same battle as Armageddon as you are attempting to prove - as Gog is clearly killed and buried, and the coming AC will be alive at the Return or Coming of Christ - where his armies are assembled to make war with Christ and the Armies of Heaven. Here is Revelation 19:19:

19) And I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies assembled to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army.


Seeker, if you cannot see that Gog and the coming AC are NOT the same...then I don't know what to tell ya.

Seeker wrote:Now can you answer my question about the last two verses in Eze 39 as well? When does Israel return to their land?


Again, let's settle the aforementioned discussion - as I believe your question will be mute upon your acknowledgement that you have not proved your point about Gog and the AC being one and the same.
Mr Baldy
 
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