Rev. 19:12 What about the name written?

[lambslave]

If you have given it some thought, what do you believe is the significance of Rev. 19:12, especially the phrase "...and he has a name written which no one knows except himself." I believe it is easy to run by phrases like this without understanding. lambslave

[drdos]

If you have given it some thought, what do you believe is the significance of Rev. 19:12, especially the phrase "...and he has a name written which no one knows except himself." I believe it is easy to run by phrases like this without understanding. lambslave

[amessenger4god]

Very interesting question. Check out Judges 13:18 -

He replied, "Why do you ask my name? It is beyond understanding."

It appears that God has a Name that even tops "I AM that I AM"... a Name that no one can understand, but God alone.

[mark s]

If you have given it some thought, what do you believe is the significance of Rev. 19:12, especially the phrase "...and he has a name written which no one knows except himself." I believe it is easy to run by phrases like this without understanding. lambslave

Hi Lambslave,

I'm not aware of any Scripture that really elaborates on this, so I can only speculate.

I'm assuming that not just I, but God also knows this name. I'm thinking that this speaks to my personal relationship with God. When God calls my name, He's calling no one else except me.

Love in Christ,
Mark

[Abiding in His Word]

I agree Mark. I think when God assigned names to individuals, it reflected some personal significance.

[lambslave]

The word "name" is used not only once, but three times in the context of this passage. And the phrase "he is called faithful nd true" is also included. And although each identifies God, each is distinct from the other. We are apparently to understand that the coming one is the arrival of the One and only who has in himself, and demonstrates in his revelation, all the features portrayed......Word of God, King of Kings, faithful and and much more known only by him. But are we missing anything? lambslave

[Abiding in His Word]

The names of God reflect some characteristic of His Being, don't they?

For example;

El-Shaddai -- The God Who is Sufficient for the Needs of His People
Jehovah-Elohim -- The Eternal Creator
Jehovah-Jireh -- The Lord our Provider
Jehovah-Nissi -- The Lord our Banner
Jehovah-Ropheka -- The Lord our Healer
Jehovah-Shalom -- The Lord our Peace

Perhaps this unknown name will reflect/reveal a purpose or characteristic not expressed until this time. Possible?

[lambslave]

Abiding, Great, Not only possible, but I, for one, am thrilled at the discoveries and confirmations when heaven is opened.
And what about the name being "written?" Could that word have been left out? I think not, and suggest that sometehing is in view when something is described as written. (and I reject the added words "upon him" (NASB).
HINT: It is written
lambslave

[Abiding in His Word]

Rev 19:12 His eyes are a flame of fire, and on His head are many diadems; and He has a name written on Him which no one knows except Himself.

The NASB italicizes those words which are not found in the original Hebrew, Aramaic or Greek, but are implied. So I have no problem reading that verse without those words.

[Abiding in His Word]

Nevertheless, the verse does say that no one knows this name by Him...written or not. Right?

[lambslave]

Abiding, Right! And if, as I believe, "written" means "recorded in the Scripture," (as it quite often means in the Bible when spoken by Jesus) then the phrase in Rev 19:12 is saying that this Lord who comes is the one with The Name, Exod 3:14. lambslave

[mark s]

Perhaps one of the other Names written, no? That is, if we are saying "written in Scripture"?

[mark s]

Abiding, Right! And if, as I believe, "written" means "recorded in the Scripture," (as it quite often means in the Bible when spoken by Jesus) then the phrase in Rev 19:12 is saying that this Lord who comes is the one with The Name, Exod 3:14. lambslave

Revelation 19:11-12
(11) Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war.
(12) His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He had a name written that no one knew except Himself.

To me, this speak of a Name that has not yet been revealed.

Love in Christ,
Mark

[watching]

Hi lambslave,

I think Jesus revealed that He is I AM, when he said:

John 8:58

King James Version (KJV)

58Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

[lambslave]

It is quite possible for a thing to be known about, without it being known. I know about the day of the Lord Jesus, but I do not know the day or date of the Lord. God has written many things in His Word that we know about, but no one knows. I know that one day my body will be resurrected, but I have no clue as to how that is possible what it entails. Some things are written but are not known. I know Jesus who is the exegesis of God to and for me. But my knowledge does not plum the depths of God. A name of something is more than a label. I can know your birth ceretificate name without knowing you at all. If I understand you correctly you suggest that God will have a NEW name? lambslave

[mark s]

New to Him or new to us?

[watching]

Hi lambslave,

As you know, I love translating verses. So here is what I think would be a more direct translation of Revelation 19:12.

19:12 οἱ δὲ ὀφθαλμοὶ αὐτοῦ ὡς φλὸξ πυρός καὶ ἐπὶ τὴν κεφαλὴν αὐτοῦ διαδήματα πολλά ἔχων ὄνομα γεγραμμένον ὃ οὐδεὶς οἶδεν εἰ μὴ αὐτός

19:12 οἱ (the) δὲ (moreover) ὀφθαλμοὶ (eyes) αὐτοῦ (of him) ὡς (as) φλὸξ (flames) πυρός (of fire) καὶ (and) ἐπὶ (on) τὴν (the) κεφαλὴν (head) αὐτοῦ (of him) διαδήματα (crowns) πολλά (many) ἔχων (having) ὄνομα (name) γεγραμμένον (written) ὃ (which) οὐδεὶς (no one) οἶδεν (has seen/perceived) εἰ (if) μὴ (not) αὐτός (him)

Now here is how I think this would translate in the English.

Moreover, his eyes were as flames of fire and on his head [were] many crowns; while having a name written which no one has known except for him.

Anyway the point that I want to make is that οἶδεν is in the perfect tense. So it would more correctly translate as "has known." Which means that know one has seen or perceived His name, at least, until this point.

Now, you make a good point that this verse does not specifically state where this name is written, which might lead one to suspect that it is written in the scriptures. But, if that were the case, then the name would not necessarily be revealed at this point, which may possibly be the case.

But, it may also possibly be the case, that the name, and where it is written, is revealed in the next few verses.

Revelation 19:13-16

King James Version (KJV)

13And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

14And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

15And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

16And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

But, JUST TO BE CLEAR, I am not saying which, if either of these, may be the case. I am just presenting at least two POSSIBILITIES.

I guess we will not know the answer to this question for sure, until the Lord returns.

[Abiding in His Word]

I do think this name will reflect some aspect of His purpose as in the context of the verses following verse 12. This will be a name that has not been previously attributed to Him but may have been alluded to elsewhere in scripture; i.e.:

"Therefore say to the house of Israel, 'Thus says the Lord GOD, "It is not for your sake, O house of Israel, that I am about to act, but for My holy name, which you have profaned among the nations where you went. "I will vindicate the holiness of My great name which has been profaned among the nations, which you have profaned in their midst. Then the nations will know that I am the LORD," declares the Lord GOD, "when I prove Myself holy among you in their sight. Eze 36:22-23

[lambslave]

Mark, Watching, Abiding, Notice with me something that may be significant. Of the four times name is used or implied, two are written and two are called.
"a white horse, and he who sat on it is called faithful and true...
"He has a name written which no one knows but except himself...
"clothed with a robe dipped in blood, His name is called The word of God
On His robe and on His thigh a name written King of Kings and Lord of Lords

I think we may be getting close to sometthing--
In the first set of "called" and "wriitten" His name is set in the context of the white horse and robe
In the second set of "called" and "written" His name is set in the context of white horses, His robe

It seems to me that something is being presented that shows consistency and agreement of names and action, pointing out that being called the Word of God is is perfectly consistent with the name King of King and Lord of Lords, the same robe worn that is dipped in blood (the Word, our redeemer), is the robe of his authority to rule. cf. Rev 5:6 A Lamb standing as if slain is in the middle of the throne. lambslave

[mark s]

Hi Lambslave,

Am I correct in thinking that you've started this thread with an end in mind? Where is this leading?

When you are giving "hints", this leads me to think you've already got the conclusion in mind.



Love in Christ,
Mark

[lambslave]

Mark, I'm making discoveries, listening to all remarks, and discovering as I go. No agenda except to put my head together with others who care what the Word says. Have I offended you in some way, or suggested something untrue? Please tell me if that is the case. But I prefer such questions in PM. One more question like that in the public forum and I'm out of here permanently. Lambslave

[mark s]

Hi Lambslave,

I'm sorry if I offended you, none was intended. As I said, people will often give "hints" when trying to direct others to a predetermined goal.

If that is not what you are doing, then I stand corrected. And I don't mind if you do, I merely thought I'd ask.

Love in Christ,
Mark

[Keeping Alert]

Hi lambslave, glad to see you back!

Regarding Revelation 19:12 - it says he "had" a name written... meaning that name has been given to Jesus in the past except that no man has known it (at least that is what I understand it to be said)

In the immediate context, it talks of his eyes were as flame of fire and on his head were many crowns (probably tiers of crown) - to me it talks of glory... perhaps the name has something to do with this glory.

However, I note in various parts of Revelation that names are given that no one knows e.g. to the overcomers of Philadelphia (Rev 3:12) God will write upon him Jesus' new name, and similarly in Rev 2:17 for the church of Pergamos.

There are of course, other examples in the OT where God concerning the Angel of the Lord refuses to reveal His name.. which has led to some theological speculation of the identity of the Angel.

Blessings,
KA

[lambslave]

Mark, Sorry for the hair trigger response. I've been somewhat unstable emotionally since my wife died. Apology was probably not necessary from you-but it is from me.

I am delighted to discover since we started this thread another passage which seems to join or reconcile the Jesus of the cross and the Almighty God of judgement. It seems that the blood on His robe is His own, not the blood of those being judged as I have written elsewhere. Our God is an awesome God...
lambslave

[watching]

Hi lambslave,

What passage are you referring to?

[lambslave]

Watching, The passage in Rev 19:11-16. I'm just realizing what I had learned in Rev 5:6. God's power and vision to rule is illustrated there by a lamb who is standing as if slain in the middle of the throne with 7 horns and 7 eyes, which are sent out to all the earth. Every where we see it, especially at the cross. Thee dying lamb was labeled the King of the Jews. And in the Rev 19:13 the One who comes has a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called the Word of God. The One who comes to rule over his kingdom is the Word of God who shows us a King whose power to rule resides in what we call sacrifice, "stands as if slain." lambslave

[watching]

Hi lambslave,

I'm not sure if the blood that the Lord's garment was dipped in is from the blood that was shed on the cross or from treading the wine press, or both.

Revelation 19:11-16

King James Version (KJV)

11And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

12His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.

13And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

14And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

15And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

16And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

Incidentally, have I ever mentioned that this is my favorite song.

(WARNING: Be sure to turn down the volume before playing this video, in order to prevent being startled.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAR1A4wGWEM

[Keeping Alert]

name written... could it be LORD JESUS CHRIST? I was told by a Messianic Jew that those 3 words encompass just about everything about the name that we are to pray in...

[Abiding in His Word]

Thanks, watching, that was wonderful!

[mark s]

Fabulous!!!

I didn't know he was a Christian!

[watching]

Hi mark s.

I don't think he is. At least he has never claimed to be, that I know of.

But I have both of his Christmas CD's and I have never heard anyone sing "Christian" Christmas music as passionately as he does. In fact, that is what impressed me the most about him a long time ago when I got the CD's, especially since he is Jewish.

So maybe he is, or maybe he is at least drawn to it. In any case, I hope he will turn to Christ, if he hasn't already.

[lambslave]

watching, Mark S, It's not hard to tell where the translators got the italicised words in 19:12, because down the page John tells us that the name King of Kings and Lord of Lords is written on His robe and thigh. And a question comes to mind--If the words are written on His robe and thigh who wrote it? why write it there? lambslave

[good4u1]

I don't know why or where it is at or maybe I'm just hoping...I think in eternity future all God's children will receive new names. I'd like a new one, thanks...especially if God Himself is giving it to me. How about you?

[Jericho]

Sure The former things will pass away. I wonder if in eternity this life will have seemed like a dream.

[SueAnn]

I remember watching John Hagee one day several years ago. He taught about the shawl with fringe that Jews wear to pray. Sorry, I cannot remember the name of the shawl. Anyway, Hagee said that the "name on Jesus thigh" is the fringe on the shawl he will be wearing when He returns. The fringe lies at thigh level. Can't remember any more than that about the shawl teaching.

Does anyone else remember this Hagee teaching?

[Jericho]

I remember watching John Hagee one day several years ago. He taught about the shawl with fringe that Jews wear to pray. Sorry, I cannot remember the name of the shawl. Anyway, Hagee said that the "name on Jesus thigh" is the fringe on the shawl he will be wearing when He returns. The fringe lies at thigh level. Can't remember any more than that about the shawl teaching.

Does anyone else remember this Hagee teaching?

I did not seen that particular teaching but I've heard a similar story that has to do with the prayer shawl known as the tallit. http://www.rivkah.org/030305.htm

[SueAnn]

I did not seen that particular teaching but I've heard a similar story that has to do with the prayer shawl known as the tallit. http://www.rivkah.org/030305.htm

Tallit! Yes, that's it. Thank you, SG.