by Seeker on Mon Jul 28, 2008 12:00 pm
Hi 1whowaits,
As I often point out to you, the AC is shown killed in scripture. That refutes your argument totally. If he can be killed without being thrown alive in the fire in one part of scripture it is possible in other parts.
Dan 7:11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.
Dan 7:17 These great beasts, which are four, are four kings, which shall arise out of the earth.
This verse refers to the king of the 4th kingdom which will be a man. The beast (king) was slain, his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame. The horn is the little horn which subdues 3 of the original 10 horns depicted. This is commonly known to refer to the AC. Thus we have a clear picture of the mortal death of the AC prior to be thrown into the fire.
Now back to scriptures to see when the Gog war takes place. Ezekiel 39 lists some things that happen at the conclusion of the Gog war. Besides the earthquake that causes every creature on earth to shake in Ezekiel 38 we have these things that God says about His relationship with Israel. These things can only take place after the Jews accept Jesus as their Messiah.
Luk 13:34 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and ye would not!
Luk 13:35 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate: and verily I say unto you, Ye shall not see me, until the time come when ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.
So for the things in Ezekiel 39 to be true the Jews will have to have accepted Jesus before the Father accepts them again. There is only one way to the Father and that is through His Son Jesus and Jesus left it very clear. Here are the things that happen between God and Israel at the conclusion of the Gog war.
Eze 39:4 Thou shalt fall upon the mountains of Israel, thou, and all thy bands, and the people that is with thee: I will give thee unto the ravenous birds of every sort, and to the beasts of the field to be devoured.
Eze 39:5 Thou shalt fall upon the open field: for I have spoken it, saith the Lord GOD.
The armies of Gog that are left are killed in the mountains of Israel. Below are all the things God will do for Israel at the conclusion of the Gog war.
And I will send a fire on Magog, and among them that dwell carelessly in the isles: and they shall know that I am the LORD. So will I make my holy name known in the midst of my people Israel; and I will not let them pollute my holy name any more: and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, the Holy One in Israel. Behold, it is come, and it is done, saith the Lord GOD; this is the day whereof I have spoken. And they that dwell in the cities of Israel shall go forth, and shall set on fire and burn the weapons, both the shields and the bucklers, the bows and the arrows, and the handstaves, and the spears, and they shall burn them with fire seven years:
Magog and the isles will know He is the Lord after He sends fire on them during the Gog campaign. God will make His holy name known in the midst of His people Israel at that time. He will not let Israel pollute His holy name any more at that time. The heathen (nations) will know He is the Lord, the holy one of Israel at that time. It has come it is done the day the Lord has spoken of. What day has the Lord spoken of prior to Ezekiel in scripture? They will burn the weapons having no need for them.
And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will give unto Gog a place there of graves in Israel, the valley of the passengers on the east of the sea: and it shall stop the noses of the passengers: and there shall they bury Gog and all his multitude: and they shall call it The valley of Hamongog. And seven months shall the house of Israel be burying of them, that they may cleanse the land. Yea, all the people of the land shall bury them; and it shall be to them a renown the day that I shall be glorified, saith the Lord GOD.
The day Gog and company are buried will be to the people a renown day in which God will be glorified.
And I will set my glory among the heathen, and all the heathen shall see my judgment that I have executed, and my hand that I have laid upon them. So the house of Israel shall know that I am the LORD their God from that day and forward. And the heathen shall know that the house of Israel went into captivity for their iniquity: because they trespassed against me, therefore hid I my face from them, and gave them into the hand of their enemies: so fell they all by the sword. According to their uncleanness and according to their transgressions have I done unto them, and hid my face from them. Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Now will I bring again the captivity of Jacob, and have mercy upon the whole house of Israel, and will be jealous for my holy name;
God will set His glory among the nations and all the nations will see the Lord's judgment that He has executed on Gog. They will know it was the Lord's hand that did it. The house of Israel will know the Lord is their God from that day and forward (for ever). The nations will understand that they were able to defeat Israel only because God hid His face from Israel. Now, after the Gog battle, God will have mercy upon the whole house of Israel.
After that they have borne their shame, and all their trespasses whereby they have trespassed against me, when they dwelt safely in their land, and none made them afraid. When I have brought them again from the people, and gathered them out of their enemies' lands, and am sanctified in them in the sight of many nations; Then shall they know that I am the LORD their God, which caused them to be led into captivity among the heathen: but I have gathered them unto their own land, and have left none of them any more there. Neither will I hide my face any more from them: for I have poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel, saith the Lord GOD.
When God gathers them again (after the AC/Gog scatters them) He will be santified in the eyes of many nations. They will know it was God that gathered them back to their own land. He will no longer hide His face from them for He will have poured out His spirit upon the house of Israel at the conclusion of the Gog war. Couple this with the obvious references to Revelation in Eze 38 and there is no time other than the conclusion of the 70th week that all these conditions can be true. God does not bring Israel back into the fold until after the time of the Gentiles is complete.
Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
Rom 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
And this is exactly what is described in Eze 38-39 God returning to deal with Israel after the Gentiles. This timestamps Eze 38-39 for us. The events portrayed in those two chapters can only occur after God accepts Israel once again. That can only occur when the Israel accepts Jesus as shown here; again linked to the very end of the 70th week.
Zec 12:8 In that day shall the LORD defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David shall be as God, as the angel of the LORD before them.
Zec 12:9 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.
Zec 12:10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.
This is the same picture Ezekiel paints. Actually all the prophets paint the same picture once we are able to recognize the picture. In all cases the prophets speak of a time when the enemies of Israel attack and nearly wipe out Jerusalem. The Lord God intervenes saving Israel. Israel is then with the Lord for ever after. Each prophet is speaking about the same set of events from slightly different perspectives. The NT and Revelation especially continue this pattern. The whole bible is about Jesus when we really boil it all down. What we see in Revelation is the same as what we see in the OT. There is one final battle described by many different prophets. Once we can see this then we can understand that each account gives us a different set of truths. All the truths in all the stories must be true at the same time. We must be able to zoom out and see the bigger picture before attempting to understand the bits and pieces. Basically we are given a lot of information about the last 7 years throughout the bible. The hard part is understanding that it is all true and therefore all must fit into our scenarios as we consider scripture. Gog has to be the AC they exist in the same timeframe, the final 7 years.
Peace,
Seeker
Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.
So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,