Babylon a literal city or symbolic

[jtsmythe]

A few prophecy scholars state that the future Babylon mentioned in Revelation is the literal city in todays Iraq. I'm confused as to whether Babylon is an actual city or a symbol of morality. If Babylon is the actual city are there any movement by the UN or EU to move its headquarters there? Thank you. <p></p><i></i>

[astarfisher]

Good questions - and several opinions floating around on the board - There is another thread that links to an article that implies America is Babylon. But many others disagree. <br>
<br>
If you look up some of the references on that thread and link, they seem to have really stretched scripture to meet their foredrawn conclusion (the article linked to, not the person posting it ;-). Some of the scriptures seem to fit, others simply do not - they've made scripture fit the assumption (the article linked to) . I have a problem with this. Be careful in assumng anything - it will be as others on the board have commented, revelaton is being revealed as it is happening. <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub149.ezboard.com/bherbsdiscussionboard.showUserPublicProfile?gid=astarfisher>astarfisher</A> at: 2/19/04 7:43 am<br></i>

[mrshalfcent]

It appears by reading all the scripture references to Babylon is it both a religious system and a city of commerce...<br>
the AC's government will encompass all facets...<br>
This is really quite simple...but where is the actual city that is referred to as Babylon...? we can speculate all we want, some say Iraq, some say Rome because of the seven hills, some say NY and America as a whole. <br>
my thoughts are, it doesnt' matter to define a geographical location at this point but it will happen and then we will know.<br>
Right now the Babylonian religion is here and it is the apostasy that has infiltrated the church...that is our battle right now to stay pure in an impure environment...the pieces will fall in place very soon...the signs are all there.<br>
blessings<br>
laura<br>
<p><>< <>< <><<br>
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Thankyou Bascababy!</p><i></i>

[njfish17]

I personally believe that the Babylonian religion is astrology. If I remember correctly I heard on the radio the other day that there are over 200,000 part time astrologists in America and like 20,000 full time.<br>
<br>
Look at how many people today check there horoscope in the paper each day.<br>
<br>
shamayim- hebrew for abode of the stars. (heaven)<br>
<br>
Genesis 11:4 And they said, Go to, let us build us a city and a tower, whose top [may reach] unto heaven; and let us make us a name, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth. <p></p><i></i>

[Ragnarok]

Good questions with no real answer at the moment. This is one of those thing I just don't think we can answer with certaintiy at the moment. Best to search the Word and try to form your own opinion as there are good points to <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>all</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> points of view.<br>
<br>
Just a few quick verses to get you started:<br>
<br>
<br>
<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Rev 17:18 - " And the woman which thou sawest is that great <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>city</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END-->, which reigneth over the kings of the earth. "<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--> <br>
<br>
<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Rev 18:10 - " Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas, <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>that great city Babylon</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END-->, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come. "<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br>
<br>
<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Jer 51:43 - " Her <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>cities</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> are a desolation, a dry land, and a wilderness, a land wherein no man dwelleth, neither doth any son of man pass thereby.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br>
<br>
<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Jer 50:12 - " Your mother shall be sore confounded; she that bare you shall be ashamed: behold, <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>the hindermost of the nations</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> shall be a wilderness, a dry land, and a desert. "<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br>
<br>
Scripture refers to Babylon as <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>both</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> a city and a nation.<br>
<br>
As for your question about the UN and Babylon:<br>
<!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://laetusinpraesens.org/musings/untobag.php">laetusinpraesens.org/musings/untobag.php</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--> <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub149.ezboard.com/bherbsdiscussionboard.showUserPublicProfile?gid=ragnarok@herbsdiscussionboard>Ragnarok</A> at: 2/19/04 7:32 am<br></i>

[christian]

<br>
Oi, I heard that! <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START ;) --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/wink.gif ALT=";)"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <br>
<br>
I thought the American Holocaust site was pretty specific: though your conclusions are your own, and I can't do anything to change your heart.<br>
<br>
Is it possible that the text references to Babylon the City, and Babylon the Country as two distinct places? Maybe the City lies in a different country to the Country? or the City is a City Country? like Singapore, or the Vatican? <p></p><i></i>

[mrshalfcent]

Babylon was once both a city and a nation....see OT prophets...Jeremiah etc...<br>
In Revelation is appears it is both a mystery religion, the harlot and a city...which obviously lies in a country...<br>
it is two things...but where? I wouldn't even speculate...wastes time and energy...know that the mystery religion is already here and it is not just astrology...it is the apostasy ,the false christianity too...<br>
blessings<br>
laura <p><>< <>< <><<br>
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Thankyou Bascababy!</p><i></i>

[christian]

Nice to chat with you finally, Laura <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :) --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <br>
<br>
I just think that finding out where that city is is of the UTMOST importance to me, cos I for one wouldn't want to be anywhere near it when the you know what hits the fan.<br>
<br>
<br>
<p></p><i></i>

[mrshalfcent]

hey christian! where you from anyway? tell me more about you would ya?? inquiring minds want to know...hehe<br>
laura <p><>< <>< <><<br>
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Thankyou Bascababy!</p><i></i>

[njfish17]

Laura,<br>
<br>
"it is not just astrology...it is the apostasy ,the false christianity too..."<br>
<br>
I did not mean to imply that it is just astrology.<br>
<br>
But I think astrology is the root of it all. I don't think we know all the ramifications right now but it will all be revealed one day. <p></p><i></i>

[njfish17]

We(the church) will not be here anyway when judgement is poured out by God.<br>
<br>
Revelation 18:3-4 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies. And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues. <br>
<br>
First when read in context I'm not sure that "come out of her" is referring to the city; It may be referring to "the wine of the wrath of her fornication."<br>
<br>
IN either case we are to come out so as to not participate in her sins,which leads to the plagues (judgement).<br>
<br>
So I read it as though we are to come out of this "fornication" so as to not partake of her sins.<br>
<br>
"She" is definitely more than a city based on the context.<br>
<br>
"For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication" <p></p><i></i>

[njfish17]

First I am not dogamtic in my postion of who is Babylon.<br>
<br>
Right now I lean towards Rome. It could be NY or America but there are some problems with this view, at least right now.<br>
<br>
For example:<br>
<br>
Revelation 17:6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration. <p></p><i></i>

[mrshalfcent]

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Revelation 17:6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration. <hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br>
<br>
this verse tips us off as to her identity...<br>
is America drunk with the blood of saints and martyrs?<br>
Is Rome? and who is Rome throughout history equated with?<br>
<br>
to say Babylon is America is truly a stretch in my opinion.<br>
blessings<br>
laura<br>
<p><>< <>< <><<br>
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<br>
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Thankyou Bascababy!</p><i></i>

[njfish17]

Hey Laura<br>
<br>
I don't know if you misunderstood my post but that is exactly what I was saying.<br>
<br>
Right now I lean towards "she" being Rome, but I also wonder about Jerusalem. <p></p><i></i>

[KimM777]

Could the harlot 'being drunk with the blood of the saints' be something that happens during the tribulation?<br>
<br>
Also, the 7 hills represent 7 kingdoms/kings (not literal hills), right? How does this apply to Rome?<br>
<br>
<p></p><i></i>

[njfish17]

"Could the harlot 'being drunk with the blood of the saints' be something that happens during the tribulation?"<br>
<br>
I think it very well could be which is why I don't throw anything out of the mix including NY or America. I just lean towards Rome right now.<br>
<br>
"Also, the 7 hills represent 7 kingdoms/kings (not literal hills), right? How does this apply to Rome?"<br>
<br>
Revelation 17:9-10 And here [is] the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth. And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, [and] the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space. <br>
<br>
The seven heads represent seven mountains (or hills) and seven kings.<br>
<br>
Rome is known as the city of the seven hills!<br>
<p></p><i></i>

[cookiecrumbs]

...As a student of Bible Prophecy i have learned<br>
to distinguish from what appears to<br>
be "symbolic" and what is literal...The Babylon<br>
mentioned in Revelation will NOT be<br>
a reconstructed Iraqi city, try to build a new<br>
city takes years !!! who wants to live in the middle<br>
of a desert surrounded by instability and<br>
would be terrorists ?...I am convinced that<br>
it is NOT a geographic city per say but <br>
a city with the inclinations & the spirit of<br>
ancient Babylon...Like for example San Francisco<br>
is the new Sodom & Gomorah ?....I am open <br>
to all interpretations but let's remember<br>
Babylon is the antehisis of Jerusalem "G-D's"<br>
city,,, <p></p><i></i>

[orangemailman]

Here are some scriptures to back up general statements. The first statement being that the antichrist's authority and kingdom is centered in Jerusalem.<br>
<br>
Daniel 11:41,45;<br>
Isaiah 25:7, 26:13, 28:14-18<br>
Jeremiah 51:11<br>
Revelation 11:1-8<br>
<br>
Jerusalem is a spiritual Sodom.<br>
<br>
Isaiah 1:8-10, 3:8,9<br>
Ezekiel 16:2,3,45-56<br>
Revelation 11:2,8<br>
<br>
Jerusalem is the center of idolatry<br>
<br>
Isaiah 2, 10:11, 31:4-7<br>
Jeremiah 5:1,27<br>
Ezekiel 8<br>
Zephaniah 1:4-6<br>
Zechariah 13:1,2<br>
Psalm 97<br>
Revelation 18:2<br>
<br>
Jerusalem is responsible for the blood of the prophets<br>
<br>
Matthew 23:29-39<br>
Luke 13:31-35<br>
Lamentations 4:11-13<br>
Revelation 18:20,24<br>
<br>
Reward Jerusalem double for all of her sins<br>
<br>
Isaiah 40:2<br>
Jeremiah 16:18, 17:18<br>
Revelation 18:6<br>
<br>
Jerusalem is a burdensome stone<br>
<br>
Jeremiah 51:63,64<br>
Zechariah 12:3<br>
Revelation 18:21<br>
<br>
The Babylon-Jerusalem connection<br>
<br>
Jeremiah 50:28<br>
Zechariah 2:7<br>
Isaiah 46:13, 47:1 (the two verses are consecutive)<br>
Isaiah 46-48 these chapters seem to have a dual intertwining theme of both Jerusalem and Babylon<br>
<br>
Jerusalem may develop into an international city. If so, the Jews, Christians, and Muslims would look to Jerusalem as the capital city representing the heart of their religions. We could very well have the center of a one world religion based in Jerusalem. <br>
<br>
The abomination of desolation would be as simple as the one world ruler walking across town from his headquarters to the Jewish temple and saying, "Not only am I the ruler of this world, but also the god of this world, the god of the Jews. The whole world must take my mark to be a part of my new world order."<br>
<br>
Have fun and stay busy - Luke 19:13<br>
<br>
-The Orange Mailman <p></p><i></i>

[1withJesus]

I view America as a Babylonian suburb. JMO.<!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :p --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/tongue.gif ALT=":p"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <br>
Jim. <p></p><i></i>

[christian]

<br>
..England. We're probably part of Babylon too <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :( --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/frown.gif ALT=":("><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <p></p><i></i>