11 THE TABERNACLES OF his PALACE 12

[Mr Baldy]

the Last Day not being a 24 hour Day. Being a student of Bible Prophecy - I have come to the understanding that when Jesus Appears - Time as we know it will no longer exist. There will be no literal 24 hour day. There will be no Sun, Moon, Stars......etc

Hi Mr. Baldy!
I have came to understand that too, I honestly think there will be no literal 24-hour day either when Jesus does come because we are changed into spiritual bodies...
I hope all is well... I think we will soon be in Great Tribulation ... many blessings! Love in christ!

Yes - completely agree Woody!

Honestly, I think there will be many surprises when He Appears.

[Ready1]

Honestly, I think there will be many surprises when He Appears.

I suspect that we could ALL agree with that statement!

[shorttribber]

Mr. B.
I had some of this written last weekend....but wanted you to have portions of what is to come in my writing.
I've asked at the end of this post to hold off on debating bits and pieces of this until I've posted more ok?
I just didn't want to keep you waiting so much.

First, in this post, i would like to point out Why i believe that the whole of Daniel 12 does refer to the very Last of the "Last Days".
It has been argued that the Reference to Daniel's resurrection described at the end of the chapter does not actually mean that Daniel is to be resurrected at the "End" of "THE Days" described in that chapter.

Well, i think that to deny that is an act of working very hard to Not See what the Plain Text is saying...for example.

We are, in Every Case i can think of, to find the Context of a given scripture in a chapter By the Words first mentioned in That chapter.
I suppose it is possible not to, but i think we do a disservice to our own Understanding of any text to not Begin at verse One to form the foundation of that text.

With that basic rule in mind.. let's look at the parameters we should stay in as we Comprehend the whole chapter.

1.1 "And at that time"......1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

Now let's look at a couple of very important things in this verse.
We know that Jesus uses almost the exact words when describing "Those Days" spoken by Daniel the prophet.
We are also told in this verse that "at THAT Time" Daniels people WOULD BE DELIVERED, everyone found written in the book.

Let me interject something here now too, Do you think the destruction DURING the TIME of Antiochus Epiphanes would have caused extreme confusion among the leaders of Israel based on the first verse? And would the confusion have not been reinforced by the certain numbers being "Fulfilled" at the end of Daniel?
Think about that a moment.

The scripture Plainly Says that "at THAT TIME" such and such, They WERE To Be "Delivered"! EVERY ONE found written in the book!

They got overrun! Destroyed! They did not get delivered. Right?

This has caused some people, like Mr. B. to conclude that, somehow, MOST of the whole chapter Is INDEED about the LAST 3.5 years, Except the last Few Verses!
The idea of subtracting the last Few verses from the Timeframe of the rest of the chapter is...is to me, Absolutely Unthinkable!

To say that the last few verses Plainly Describing "Times", that are not part of the whole when the First words are "At THAT Time" is just far too cumbersome to justify hermeneutically.

Sure, a person can say, "God did that to seal up the vision". And i believe that is the exact words i've heard for that justification.

Fair enough, in part, i have used the same reason to justify one set of numbers as literal days and another set of numbers as a day for a year prophecy.

I said "in part" Because i have given a solid Biblical Reason for allowing the day for a year prophecy, namely days can refer to years when a kind of Judgement is taking place.

Let's now look at other parts of the text to see if we should Justly and Wisely separate the last few verses from the rest regarding the End of Days.

Let's think on where in the text we can find evidence of God's Wrath.

The words again, " Great Time of Trouble", would be a hint right?
Again, same words Christ uses in Mathew and Luke, right?
Christ actually comes right out and says it though in Luke.
Luke 21:23.

Note one Very Important point though. When Christ said that in Luke, Antiochus destruction was past, and Jesus clearly refers to 70 AD.
Note one other important point. Jesus, in Luke, says specifically, Wrath upon THIS PEOPLE.
By saying that, He plainly makes a distinction as to Who That Wrath "At THAT TIME" was poured on.

Stick with me on this because right Here is when you will need to begin to take either good mental notes, or actual notes on paper.

Sometimes when reading a long post, making bullet points on paper is Wise.

I decided to stop here for a moment Mr. B.
I will add more to this, Lord Willing, during this week, but I wanted you to have a portion to study before I do.
That goes for any reader....there is much to be addressed in Daniel 12, and I would like to break these posts up some.

Please though Mr. B., hold off on making a specific argument on these above points briefly ok?
I wish to lay before you those things of substance you are asking for, but will be unable to do so while answering this and that argument makes it impossible.

[shorttribber]

Sorry mr. B,
Been under the weather couple days....thankfully not covid

[shorttribber]

Ok Mr B., i'm back at it!

I want to repost one small part...

Let's now look at other parts of the text to see if we should Justly and Wisely separate the last few verses from the rest regarding the End of Days.

Let's think on where in the text we can find evidence of God's Wrath.

The words again, " Great Time of Trouble", would be a hint right?
Again, same words Christ uses in Mathew and Luke, right?
Christ actually comes right out and says it though in Luke.
Luke 21:23.

Note one Very Important point though. When Christ said that in Luke, Antiochus destruction was passed, and Jesus clearly refers to 70 AD.
Note one other important point. Jesus, in Luke, says specifically, Wrath upon THIS PEOPLE.
By saying that, He plainly makes a distinction as to Who That Wrath "At THAT TIME" was poured on.

Keeping the blue highlighted parts in mind, lets' address the last few verses to see WHEN the 1,290 days may have been Already fulfilled.
When we consider that the "great time of trouble" that Jesus quoted nearly verbatim, is found ONLY in Daniel 12, we can narrow this time of trouble down.
Sure, 7 year tribbers like to all look to Dan 9:27...but i will stick currently to what is just plainly stated by Daniel, in the 12th chapter.
So, now we look at Christ's words, "wrath upon THIS People". Where do we find the wrath in Daniel 12? Clearly, Christ did not refer to the 1,260 days list a few verses above the 1,290 vs correct?
No wrath at all in those verses, on the contrary! We see only Deliverance and Power, Glorious Power and DELIVERANCE for God's people, right?

So, as to the number of Days listed in the text, the fulfillment of the 1,290 and/or 1,335 MUST be a "Time of Wrath upon the Jews (this people)"
So, Mr. B., when could that have occurred, or when Will it occur? Just as you've said before, in 70 AD, right?
Of course, that's right!

I know you are in a kind of agreement with me at this point, but let's take this thing further.
First, it did not refer to Antiochus, as i said, Christ, knowing that destruction was passed, refers ONLY to 70 AD.

Now, let's look at Luke 21....
23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.
24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

Have you noticed the distinct difference in Luke compared to Mathew and Mark? I'm sure you must have, any student of Bible prophecy must have, right?

That "TIME" would be a time of Great distress/tribulation/and Wrath upon THIS PEOPLE (the Jews), AND they would be carried away captive into ALL Nations! That Mr. B., is a Passed, Fulfilled prophecy, correct?
And again, it refers to the destruction of 70 AD.

I hate to sound repetitious, but it seems i have no choice. The ONLY PLACE that Jesus could refer to was the days, 1,290 and 1,335 with regard to That "Wrath" upon the Jews. BECAUSE the 1,260 ONLY SPEAK of Deliverance, right?

Now, just because the 1,290 and/or 1,335 found A fulfillment in 70 AD does NOT under Any Rule or Circumstance mean that "Those Days 1,290 and/or 1,335 Have not any Bearing what-so-ever on the Actual "End of Days".

The next part, i will explain further WHY i say that Mr. B...And it has to do with the FOUNDATION of the Judgement against Jerusalem, and How Luke's Gospel connects us to Mathew and Mark, and the "Time of THE END".

[shorttribber]

Sorry for the delay again Mr. B., but I finally got my health back 100% and my feat under me again, thank The Lord!
Now I think I understand why the Lord pushed the pause button on what I was writing!
Just wait till you see what I just discovered that I had not seen before! Just found it a few days ago!

I think it was something I needed to see to help You See what I'm Seeing about Daniel 12!

Finally, I think You and i, along with Many others WILL ALSO be in agreement!

[Mr Baldy]

I finally got my health back 100%

Praise God!

I think it was something I needed to see to help You See what I'm Seeing about Daniel 12!Finally, I think You and i, along with Many others WILL ALSO be in agreement!

Looking forward to it Shorty -

[shorttribber]

The following writing is from one Dave Majchrzak from 2016, not a prophecy site, just some kind of question and answer site i found.(Quora) i think it is called.
Mr. B., before i go further i just want to mention that i will have his writing in black and white, and my comments that follow, point by point, in blue.

Keep in mind Mr. B., at the start of this thread, i wanted to show the TIME Connection between Chapters Dan. 11 and Dan. 12., and the "Tabernacles of his Palace" was the KEY to that Time Leap.

Now, to all Readers, get ready. This is going to get very interesting!

.......................................................................................................

First, the question was...
What is the meaning of the 1290 days and the 1335 days in the Biblical passage Daniel 12:11? Could this relate to current events?

Mr. Majchrzak writes the following....

While originally in the book of Daniel the prophecy was relating to Antiochus IV Epiphanes, and that actually did have a 1290 day fulfillment. Hower Jesus quoted this prophecy himself and referred to it as a future event.

I find it very curiously odd (or prophecy coming to fulfillment exactly as written), that the very first time the daily sacrafice was taken away was in 586 BC when the Babylonians destroyed the very first Jewish temple in Jerusalem. Now I know it specifically says 1290 “days”, but all throughout the bible many prophecies have used the year for a day interpretation. So 1290 years after 586 BC is 705AD. What is so special about that year? That is the exact year the Al Asqa Mosque, built by the Muslims, was finished being set up directly on the temple mount in Jerusalem.

ST comments...Keep that in mind, One of the "Tabernacles" Al-Asque Mosque, 586 BC till 705

So like I said either this is a huge coincidence or it is bible prophecy being fulfilled. The 1,335 verse says “Blessed are those who make it to the end of the 1,335 days. The preceding verses are talking about the return of Jesus and the ressurection of the dead. So 1,335 years after 705AD is 2040 AD.

ST comments...Keep an open mind here Mr. B., even though you do not see the 1,335 referring to the resurrection and the return of Christ, just stay open to the possibility ok? Also, this is not any kind of coincidence beyond any doubt!

It is also interesting to note that according to some scholars, a Jewish year is 360 days, so if you convert the number 1290 to 1290 “jewish years” where a year is counted as 360 days, you get 1,272 years. 1, 272 years after 586 BC is 687 AD. Now again this might just be some huge coincidence but 687 AD is the exact year the Dome of the Rock was built by the Muslims on the Temple Mount in Jerusalem.

ST comments....Did you catch that? Convert the Solar (Gentile, Gregorian Calendar years) to Jewish years and the time fulfillment takes us to the building of the "Dome of the Rock"! Why is that important? Because the Al-Aqsa Mosque is positioned more to what would have been the Outer Court (GentileArea). The "Dome of the Rock" was SET UP right over the "Holy of Holies", strictly Jewish, or could i say, MOST Jewish Impacted Part, of the Ancient AND Current temple mount.

Again, to restate, 1290 years Gregorian TIME till Al Aqsa.....OR/AND 1290 years Jewish TIME till the "Dome of The Rock"!

If you convert the 1335 days to a 360 day for a year prophecy and add it 687 AD you come to 2002 AD, nothing particular relating to prophecy happened that year, so if you add just the normal 365 day for a year prophecy 1,335 after 687 is the year 2022 AD.

ST comments...Again, Jewish conversion takes us to 2002, and nothing particular, etc. But using the Gregorian (Gentile) Time of 365 takes us to 2022.
More on the 2022 time in a moment.
The TIMES SPEAK to us, Certain Things about Certain People Groups!
Remember also, from the beginning i've said that the Year for a Day prophecy Has Direct Connections to Judgements Decreed!
We are told Directly, Plainly, and in Black and White, In Scripture, that the 1,290 AND the 1,335 "Days" pertain to the "Time of the End".

So my interpretation of the prophecy of the 1290 and 1335 prophecy is that either the Al Aqsa Mosque or the Dome of the Rock that have been set up by the Muslims is the “Abomination of Desolation” and that Jesus could return in either 2022, or 2040.

ST comments...Now, i will not address the 2022 year estimation, YET, but i will.
As to the 2040...no...and i will discuss that also.

...................................................................................................................

Just wanted to end this part of the post at the dotted line.

I wanted to mention the Connection now from the Past AOD, the Present or Current AOD, and the Future AOD.
The First, historic AOD, Antiochus in 167 BC.......He was "The Spirit of antichrist" in Action.
The Second historic AOD was the Conglomerate Rejection of Christ by Herod (the spirit of antichrist) and the Jewish Leaders....discussed in my Daniel 9:27 thread (on page 3 and over 260,000 views).
The Third historic AOD was in 70 AD....Titus operating under the "Spirit of antichrist".
The Fourth historic AOD was the "Dome of The Rock", SET UP/Established in 687 AD Possibly... the exact year IS Becoming a bit closer to "Know". The "spirit of antichrist" in action, and on Plain Display INSIDE the Dome where the "Son of God" is Denied!
The 70 Ad AOD paved the way for the "Setting Up" or Allowing the Dome to be "Standing Where it Ought Not"!. It Paved the Way for the Historic AND Current AOD to be "Standing Where it Ought Not!

Does anyone SEE what i'm saying? WILL anyone SEE the Coming AOD when it occurs at the Historic AND Current Site?
Will anybody SEE what Christ spoke About beyond those who have Already SEEN it when it was Their TIME to SEE it?

Christ said, "When YOU SEE it", and Mark's Gospel ends the Olivet discourse with "What I say unto YOU I say Unto ALL, Watch".

What are YOU waiting to SEE? Can You SEE what is in Plain Sight?
The Future AOD WILL Soon Happen where the historic AOD NOW Sits, where it is NOW Standing Where it Ought Not!

The Connection from the First AOD till the Last and Final AOD IS "The Tabernacles of HIS Palace"!
His! The "Spirit of antichrist's Tabernacles".

Now to touch on the 2022 date mentioned earlier.....
Keep in mind, the TIME from 586 BC till 2022 OR 2023 is a LONG time.
Just the addition of a month here or there regarding WHEN Antiochus could have done this or that during his Siege, and When the foundations may have been laid and then finished on Al-Asqa and the Dome of the Rock, could easily vary by up to a year easily and conservatively.

Let's say first, an inside estimate of Dec 2020 or Jan 2021......this Could be the Start of the great Trib!
Let's say second, and outside estimate of 2023....this could be the End Year for The Great Trib! (remember, 3.5 only)

SEE how close we COULD BE?



I'm not done yet mr. B........

To be continued.....

But your comments are welcome at this point.
But please Mr. B., Please do not call this Sensationalism or Sophistry ok? THESE are Real Historic Dates we are Talking about! In Real Gregorian TIME, and Jewish TIME! Both of these TIMES being fulfilled TOGETHER!
Each Dome with Each time fulfilled, it's Real! it's Real Fulfilled prophecy!
And THAT IS the Connection, in Real Historic TIME, from Antiochus to Titus, AND to "The Coming Man"!
The Connection IS the TIME, AND the "spirit of antichrist" in Action, historically, currently, and in the Very Near Future!

[Mr Baldy]

But your comments are welcome at this point.

Thanks - just a quick question about the timing you have mentioned relating to this topic:

I find it very curiously odd (or prophecy coming to fulfillment exactly as written), that the very first time the daily sacrafice was taken away was in 586 BC when the Babylonians destroyed the very first Jewish temple in Jerusalem. Now I know it specifically says 1290 “days”, but all throughout the bible many prophecies have used the year for a day interpretation. So 1290 years after 586 BC is 705AD. What is so special about that year? That is the exact year the Al Asqa Mosque, built by the Muslims, was finished being set up directly on the temple mount in Jerusalem

Are you sure Dave Majchrzak has these numbers right
I'm not sure if 586 BC is correct.... I could be wrong, but it appears it would be around 536 or 538 BC.

Again - I have mentioned over and over again that the timing of Daniel 12:11-12 refers to Daniel 11:31 and appears to be the fulfilment. The 1,290 days is outside of any future prophecy Shorty; as well as 1,335 days - the numbers just don't add up - I'm sorry. 1,260 days have been consistent in the final number of days we have been given according to Scripture.

We have Antiochus Epiphanes IV committing the AOD in Daniel 11:31 - that's a fact. Titus and his Army destroyed the 2nd Temple in 70 AD - another fact. The prophecies appear to be a "Type and Shadow" of what the future Antichrist will do. When Jesus mentioned the AOD in Matthew 24:14 He referred to the AOD Daniel mentioned as something we will SEE performed again - NOT a specific number of days - such as the 1,290 Days you keep referring to.

But please Mr. B., Please do not call this Sensationalism or Sophistry ok? THESE are Real Historic Dates we are Talking about! In Real Gregorian TIME, and Jewish TIME! Both of these TIMES being fulfilled TOGETHER!

I guess you know how I am about "date setting" and the ideas men come up with "OUTSIDE" of Scripture
I will refrain from calling it "sensationalism or sophistry" at this juncture - at least until you can prove your theory, and please double check the dates.

I will comment more as you develop your theory. So far, I'm still not buying into it - as the days just don't add up.

[shorttribber]

589 BC, Nebuchadnezzar II laid siege to Jerusalem, culminating in the destruction of the city and its temple in the summer of 587 or 586 BC.

Siege of Jerusalem
Part of the Jewish–Babylonian war (601–586 BC)
Nebuchadnezzar camp outside Jerusalem. Famine in the city.jpg
Nebuchadnezzar camps outside Jerusalem. The citizens starve and are reduced to cannibalism. (Petrus Comestor's "Bible Historiale"), 1372
Date 589 to 587 BC
Location
Jerusalem
Result Babylonian victory, destruction of Jerusalem, fall of Kingdom of Judah

[shorttribber]

But your comments are welcome at this point.

Thanks - just a quick question about the timing you have mentioned relating to this topic:

I find it very curiously odd (or prophecy coming to fulfillment exactly as written), that the very first time the daily sacrafice was taken away was in 586 BC when the Babylonians destroyed the very first Jewish temple in Jerusalem. Now I know it specifically says 1290 “days”, but all throughout the bible many prophecies have used the year for a day interpretation. So 1290 years after 586 BC is 705AD. What is so special about that year? That is the exact year the Al Asqa Mosque, built by the Muslims, was finished being set up directly on the temple mount in Jerusalem

Are you sure Dave Majchrzak has these numbers right
I'm not sure if 586 BC is correct.... I could be wrong, but it appears it would be around 536 or 538 BC.

Again - I have mentioned over and over again that the timing of Daniel 12:11-12 refers to Daniel 11:31 and appears to be the fulfilment. The 1,290 days is outside of any future prophecy Shorty; as well as 1,335 days - the numbers just don't add up - I'm sorry. 1,260 days have been consistent in the final number of days we have been given according to Scripture.

We have Antiochus Epiphanes IV committing the AOD in Daniel 11:31 - that's a fact. Titus and his Army destroyed the 2nd Temple in 70 AD - another fact. The prophecies appear to be a "Type and Shadow" of what the future Antichrist will do. When Jesus mentioned the AOD in Matthew 24:14 He referred to the AOD Daniel mentioned as something we will SEE performed again - NOT a specific number of days - such as the 1,290 Days you keep referring to.

But please Mr. B., Please do not call this Sensationalism or Sophistry ok? THESE are Real Historic Dates we are Talking about! In Real Gregorian TIME, and Jewish TIME! Both of these TIMES being fulfilled TOGETHER!

I guess you know how I am about "date setting" and the ideas men come up with "OUTSIDE" of Scripture
I will refrain from calling it "sensationalism or sophistry" at this juncture - at least until you can prove your theory, and please double check the dates.

I will comment more as you develop your theory. So far, I'm still not buying into it - as the days just don't add up.

The dates Are Correct.
Where are you getting 536, 538?????

And I will be adding more, you Will SEE

[shorttribber]

I guess you know how I am about "date setting" and the ideas men come up with "OUTSIDE" of Scripture
I will refrain from calling it "sensationalism or sophistry" at this juncture - at least until you can prove your theory, and please double check the dates.

How is what i posted "OUTSIDE" of scripture? The numbers described ARE the very ones IN Scripture?

As to "date setting", where have i done that, other than to mention a General Very Nearness of the Great Trib? Is that somehow contrary to sound doctrine? We are told we can Not Know the day or hour of Christs' return, have i mentioned that at all?

i have double-checked the dates regarding 586/87....i will add more about the 1,290 and 1,335 as i said i will also.

[Mr Baldy]

Where are you getting 536

Ok - I'm not a History Buff

But to my understanding the rebuilding the Temple began in 536 BC and completed in 515 BC which would be consistent with the decree given in Daniel 9:25.

According to historical facts Antiochus Epiphanes IV desecrated the Temple in 167 BC (AOD) - and Titus destroyed the Temple in 70 AD. These two are related in fulfillment of Scripture in Daniel 11:31 - which you seem to keep ignoring; and further provide the answers to the number of days mentioned in Daniel 12:11-12. I further believe this is the Prophecy Jesus was referring to in Matthew 24:15 that will be a "Type and Shadow" of what the coming Antichrist will do - again, not specific DAYS such as 1,290- or 1,335.

Therefore, the time you mention 586 BC when the Babylonians destroyed the Temple and the "daily sacrifices" were taken away as it relates to the 1,290 and 1,335 days has to be proven or qualified as a future event.

While originally in the book of Daniel the prophecy was relating to Antiochus IV Epiphanes, and that actually did have a 1290 day fulfillment. Hower Jesus quoted this prophecy himself and referred to it as a future event.

The aforementioned is where I wholeheartedly disagree. Dave Majchrzak himself admits Daniels prophecy relating to Antiochus Epiphanes IV "did have a 1,290 day fulfilment."

So the question remains - why is he saying: "Jesus quoted this prophecy himself and referred to it as a future event"

Again - the days are not adding up in accordance with what has been provided to us in other references of Scripture.

[Mr Baldy]

How is what i posted "OUTSIDE" of scripture? The numbers described ARE the very ones IN Scripture?

Shorty - you misunderstood my meaning. I'm not accusing you of posting things outside of Scripture. I simply said you know how I am about things like that. When I see things like that - that is when I identify them as "sensationalism and sophistry."

As to "date setting", where have i done that, other than to mention a General Very Nearness of the Great Trib? Is that somehow contrary to sound doctrine? We are told we can Not Know the day or hour of Christs' return, have i mentioned that at all?

I never accused you of date setting either. Please read what I'm writing in the proper context.

i have double-checked the dates regarding 586/87....i will add more about the 1,290 and 1,335 as i said i will also.

Looking forward to it

[shorttribber]

shorttribber wrote:
Where are you getting 536


Mr. B. wrote: Ok - I'm not a History Buff

But to my understanding the rebuilding the Temple began in 536 BC and completed in 515 BC which would be consistent with the decree given in Daniel 9:25.

When did we start talking about daniel 9;25? Dave M. was referring to Daniel 12 :11...
11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

The decree to return to Jerusalem has nothing at all to do with the 1,290 days!

We are talking about the First Stopping of "the Daily sacrifice' IN 586/587 BC!

So, your date of 536 has no bearing at all on what exactly we are discussing.

I have provided you with Very Close Historic and Biblical Scriptural Dates (Gregorian AND Jewish)! that speak very specificly to These two Tabernacles construction.
I have said that they are a KEY to the Timing and Connecting TO the Time of THE End regarding The stopping of the sacrifices, First at 586BC, then at 167 BC, then at 70 AD; and i will show how these dates and events do definitely "Add UP".

And i will show how they "add up" specifically with regard to the different people groups, ie Jews, Gentiles, AND the "Household of Faith", which as you and i agree, is made up of both.

Another thing i need to mention....
with regard to what you've said here....

When Jesus mentioned the AOD in Matthew 24:14 He referred to the AOD Daniel mentioned as something we will SEE performed again - NOT a specific number of days

First..... Did i at any time mention that the AOD is "a specific number of days"? No, i didn't.
Second.......where did Jesus say we will SEE something "Performed Again"?

He said, When ye See the AOD STANDING where ...IT...Ought Not.

[WOODHENOT3]

We know where the AoD is STANDING right now....:)

[Jay Ross]

We know where the AoD is STANDING right now....:)

Does that option also include the possibility of the AOD standing in heaven right at this moment?

It is worth considering, because when the war in Heaven is over, and he is judged, he will immediately be placed in the Bottomless pit for a period of 1,000 solar years, i.e. after many days to await his time of punishment. Daniel 9:26b, Isaiah 24:21-22, Rev 12:7-12.

[shorttribber]

We know where the AoD is STANDING right now....:)

Does that option also include the possibility of the AOD standing in heaven right at this moment?

It is worth considering, because when the war in Heaven is over, and he is judged, he will immediately be placed in the Bottomless pit for a period of 1,000 solar years, i.e. after many days to await his time of punishment. Daniel 9:26b, Isaiah 24:21-22, Rev 12:7-12.

Woody, I hope you don't mind my answering Jay on this.
Jay, I do hope you know that it is not particularly easy for Woody to jump around and examine all the ideas you bring up.
Not sure if you are aware that he is legally blind and searching out the many uncommon ideas you bring up would be quite difficult for him.
Just saying.

Can we keep the subject at least generaly focused on Daniel 11 and 12 please?
I know we must bring up several scriptures in discussing these two chapters, but can we stay within reasonable parameters?

[Mr Baldy]

Shorty -

I have questioned you and your Theory about the Great Tribulation Period lasting 1,290 - which I wholeheartedly disagree with, as it cannot be supported with Scripture. Nor can your timing of the 1,335 days be united with any future reference to the End Time. Yet you write this:

First..... Did i at any time mention that the AOD is "a specific number of days"? No, i didn't.

Dave M. was referring to Daniel 12 :11...11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

According to Daniel 12:11 the AOD is most certainly connected to the 1,290 days! However, it's the AOD that was PAST and not Future - that's the connection that I have been trying to get you to understand. This Prophecy has already been fulfilled. I never said you said that the AOD is a specific number of days - therefore you are totally misunderstanding the points I'm making.

LET's please stay focused on the main idea: (the meaning of the 1,290 days & 1,355 days) that you are failing to prove. I want to reemphasize something you wrote, as it is crucial to this debate:

What is the meaning of the 1290 days and the 1335 days in the Biblical passage Daniel 12:11? Could this relate to current events? Mr. Majchrzak writes the following....While originally in the book of Daniel the prophecy was relating to Antiochus IV Epiphanes, and that actually did have a 1290 day fulfillment. Hower Jesus quoted this prophecy himself and referred to it as a future event

Dave Majchrzak is WRONG. Jesus Never "referred to 1,290 Days as being a "future event."

These are the points I have been refuting in what you are posting. Your numbers aren't adding up - and neither is Dave Majchurzak's as far as anything FUTURE. He admits in his own words (you have posted) that the 1,290 related to Antiochus Epiphanes IV. This is PAST ...it has been fulfilled already.

Search the Scriptures as you may - but you will never find any End Time event united to 1,290 Days or 1,335 Days. What we find consistently is 1,260 Days or 3.5 years. Scripture is very Clear about that.

Amazingly, you still have failed to comment on Daniel 11:31 - in which Daniel 12:11-12 specifically refers to. Additionally, I believe Jesus was referring to the AOD in Daniel 11:31 as well.

Very respectfully - I really would like to see you prove the number of days mentioned in Daniel 12:11-12 is related to any End Time or future event. Otherwise, this debate is beginning to appear like those who claim there is a 7 year Tribulation period, or a Pre-Tribulation Rapture; or there is yet a future 7 year period that remains unfulfilled - it's just not there!

[shorttribber]

Shorty -

I have questioned you and your Theory about the Great Tribulation Period lasting 1,290 - which I wholeheartedly disagree with, as it cannot be supported with Scripture. Nor can your timing of the 1,335 days be united with any future reference to the End Time. Yet you write this:

First..... Did i at any time mention that the AOD is "a specific number of days"? No, i didn't.

Dave M. was referring to Daniel 12 :11...11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

According to Daniel 12:11 the AOD is most certainly connected to the 1,290 days! However, it's the AOD that was PAST and not Future - that's the connection that I have been trying to get you to understand. This Prophecy has already been fulfilled. I never said you said that the AOD is a specific number of days - therefore you are totally misunderstanding the points I'm making.

LET's please stay focused on the main idea: (the meaning of the 1,290 days & 1,355 days) that you are failing to prove. I want to reemphasize something you wrote, as it is crucial to this debate:

What is the meaning of the 1290 days and the 1335 days in the Biblical passage Daniel 12:11? Could this relate to current events? Mr. Majchrzak writes the following....While originally in the book of Daniel the prophecy was relating to Antiochus IV Epiphanes, and that actually did have a 1290 day fulfillment. Hower Jesus quoted this prophecy himself and referred to it as a future event

Dave Majchrzak is WRONG. Jesus Never "referred to 1,290 Days as being a "future event."

These are the points I have been refuting in what you are posting. Your numbers aren't adding up - and neither is Dave Majchurzak's as far as anything FUTURE. He admits in his own words (you have posted) that the 1,290 related to Antiochus Epiphanes IV. This is PAST ...it has been fulfilled already.

Search the Scriptures as you may - but you will never find any End Time event united to 1,290 Days or 1,335 Days. What we find consistently is 1,260 Days or 3.5 years. Scripture is very Clear about that.

Amazingly, you still have failed to comment on Daniel 11:31 - in which Daniel 12:11-12 specifically refers to. Additionally, I believe Jesus was referring to the AOD in Daniel 11:31 as well.

Very respectfully - I really would like to see you prove the number of days mentioned in Daniel 12:11-12 is related to any End Time or future event. Otherwise, this debate is beginning to appear like those who claim there is a 7 year Tribulation period, or a Pre-Tribulation Rapture; or there is yet a future 7 year period that remains unfulfilled - it's just not there!

As you recall, I have said that I have Much more to write, and I will show how these points you've just made are completely in error. They are in error by your own misunderstanding of what I've already posted, and on the subject matter itself..

On my phone, can't post well untill on computer

[Jay Ross]

Woody, I hope you don't mind my answering Jay on this.
Jay, I do hope you know that it is not particularly easy for Woody to jump around and examine all the ideas you bring up.
Not sure if you are aware that he is legally blind and searching out the many uncommon ideas you bring up would be quite difficult for him.
Just saying.

Can we keep the subject at least generally focused on Daniel 11 and 12 please?
I know we must bring up several scriptures in discussing these two chapters, but can we stay within reasonable parameters?

ST, what a put down on your part by claiming that my ideas are uncommon.

Your ideas are not uncommon now, are they? They are just very far fetched, to say the least.

If you had presented a rebuttal to what I had written to back up your unfounded claim, then, I would have no reason to become angry with you, but since you have not then I can only assume that you have no idea how to respond to the scripturally backed post that I had made. which does not fit your presentation on the topic of the "Tabernacles of his palace 12."

The Daniel 12:5-7 prophetic time line for when all the wonders that Daniel had been told would be finished would be a little longer than 3,500 years, i.e. 3.5 ages. Since Daniel lived around the time of 3.5 ages from when Adam was created, then the Daniel 12:5-7 prophetic time span was pointing to a total timespan of 7 Ages from the time of Adam's creation until all the wonders that Daniel had been told about would be completed.

Now I have considered the last couple of verses of Daniel 12 where Daniel was told to

"And from the time that the daily sacrifice is taken away, and the abomination of desolation is set up, there shall be one thousand two hundred and ninety days. Blessed is he who waits, and comes to the one thousand three hundred and thirty-five days.

"But you, go your way till the end; for you shall rest, and will arise to your inheritance at the end of the days."

Both of these time spans are in literal multiple 24 hr day time periods, with both time spans having the same starting point.

As we have agreed, it is prudent for us to wait for 12 months to see if your ideas are correct or not.

Your continuing to post without that confirmation means that you are pressing on even though in all likely hood that your premises are flawed and totally wrong.

You want to look at a very small window of God's prophetic word without considering the full breadth of what God has told us will happen.

If all of the fallen heavenly host are presently in heaven at the moment because the war in heaven is still raging, then my statement that to see the AoD at present requires us to look in heaven first to be able to see him at this present time, must be true and if the Aod is judged in heaven and then immediately imprisoned for many days in the abyss before it is unlocked after 1,000 years of his imprisonment has past.

The period of time that you are trying to discuss occurs during the little while period after the Bottomless pit is unlocked. Something you have not attempted to discuss.

Shalom

[shorttribber]

ST, what a put down on your part by claiming that my ideas are uncommon.

Your ideas are not uncommon now, are they? They are just very far fetched, to say the least.

A putdown, by saying your ideas are uncommon?
Well, i guess i might as well admit also that mine are not common either, but i don't feel any putdown.
As to calling my ideas farfetched, guess we must let the readers decide.

If you had presented a rebuttal to what I had written to back up your unfounded claim, then, I would have no reason to become angry with you, but since you have not then I can only assume that you have no idea how to respond to the scripturally backed post that I had made. which does not fit your presentation on the topic of the "Tabernacles of his palace 12."

I'm sorry you are angry, but i hope you will realize that i intend to stay on track with my writing and do not wish to respond in any detail as to what you've written.....Yet.

You have an interesting idea about the 3.5 ages, can we please discuss it later, or in a different thread...maybe a thread that you can list dates that are common to most of us that you feel should be understood in ages.

Can i leave it at that please, and stay focused on what i still need to write?

As we have agreed, it is prudent for us to wait for 12 months to see if your ideas are correct or not.

Your continuing to post without that confirmation means that you are pressing on even though in all likely hood that your premises are flawed and totally wrong.

I hope you don't think that i should not press on in writing until the 12 months is over because i have not yet finished presenting my ideas on this matter. I've just begun really.

[shorttribber]

I have questioned you and your Theory about the Great Tribulation Period lasting 1,290 - which I wholeheartedly disagree with, as it cannot be supported with Scripture.

Repeating these same words do not make them true.

Nor can your timing of the 1,335 days be united with any future reference to the End Time.

Except that in the same chapter we are Clearly and Plainly Told that the Time IS for the END, but somehow you don't believe so.

I will readdress that later, as to why you believe contrary to what the Text Plainly Says.

I remember your reason, don't worry, i will address that too.

Nor can your timing of the 1,335 days be united with any future reference to the End Time. Yet you write this:

shorttribber wrote:
First..... Did i at any time mention that the AOD is "a specific number of days"? No, i didn't.

I said the above sentence BECAUSE you said the following....

Mr Baldy wrote:
When Jesus mentioned the AOD in Matthew 24:14 He referred to the AOD Daniel mentioned as something we will SEE performed again - NOT a specific number of days

So you see, i was saying only that i have Not Said that the AOD IS a specific number of days.

I have said, in agreement with Dave M. and Daniel 12:11, that there would be a Specific number of days From the Time the "Daily sacrifice" was removed Until the AOD was Set Up/Established, (1,290).

I agree with him that the Daily was FIRST REMOVED in 586/87, During the Siege by Nebuchadnezzar., and the "Year for a Day" TIME was 1,290....until the Establishing of BOTH Domes, one in Gregorian Time, and the other in Jewish Time.

According to Daniel 12:11 the AOD is most certainly connected to the 1,290 days! However, it's the AOD that was PAST and not Future - that's the connection that I have been trying to get you to understand.

Mr. B., i clearly understand what you are insisting upon, i truly do understand what you THINK are PAST Prophecy Only!
I hope you will understand that i am Not Misunderstanding your idea.

Where the lack of understanding is is with what YOU THINK i believe. The reason for that is not any fault of your own brother. It is Because i have not Told You Yet! believe me, i've been trying to do so, little by little, but there is just so much to it that i can only put it down bits at a time.
I'm sorry if its so lengthy, but that's because it's just one incredibly immensely complicated section of prophetic scripture!

That really should come as no surprise based on the words in the text themselves, "Sealed" until the Time of the END.
AND, that is the Last Major Prophets writing! God Knows how complicated He Made it! He had GOOD REASONS!

Some of those reasons i believe i will be sharing on this thread.

LET's please stay focused on the main idea: (the meaning of the 1,290 days & 1,355 days) that you are failing to prove. I want to reemphasize something you wrote, as it is crucial to this debate:

Failing to prove thus far....but you haven't heard what i still will write!

As to my focus, that is a very serious goal, believe me on that, please.

shorttribber wrote:
What is the meaning of the 1290 days and the 1335 days in the Biblical passage Daniel 12:11? Could this relate to current events? Mr. Majchrzak writes the following....While originally in the book of Daniel the prophecy was relating to Antiochus IV Epiphanes, and that actually did have a 1290 day fulfillment. Hower Jesus quoted this prophecy himself and referred to it as a future event.


Mr. B. wrote: Dave Majchrzak is WRONG. Jesus Never "referred to 1,290 Days as being a "future event."

He is not wrong, you only think he is....and i WILL Prove it Mr. B.
You have clearly forgotten something that i already wrote......here....

Note one Very Important point though. When Christ said that in Luke, Antiochus destruction was past, and Jesus clearly refers to 70 AD.

I realize that proof is not yet established by the above sentence, it's just a spoke in the wheel of proof headed your way.

These are the points I have been refuting in what you are posting. Your numbers aren't adding up - and neither is Dave Majchurzak's as far as anything FUTURE. He admits in his own words (you have posted) that the 1,290 related to Antiochus Epiphanes IV. This is PAST ...it has been fulfilled already.

Again, you can say the numbers aren't adding up, again, you will see that they do. I'm almost willing to Promise you that!
And what he said about the dates and Antiochus, i agree, PAST!
Does that surprise you?

That i said the 1290 IS in the past, are you surprised? I can't see how you would be, i've already said so in another post!

Amazingly, you still have failed to comment on Daniel 11:31 - in which Daniel 12:11-12 specifically refers to.

I've already said that the 1,290 Daniel referred to WAS 11:31! Do you not remember that?
The point i've Made is that Daniel not only referred to THAT TIME, but ALSO the 1,290 days of 70 AD! You have admitted that before, and so have i, and In this same thread!

So probably you think i'm just a bit confused! But i assure you, I am not the least bit confused! On the contrary, i am Understanding this whole matter very Clearly....and so will you, if you follow with an open heart and mind, what i'm going to be sharing in my next few posts.


But i must end this here tonight, it's bedtime.

[Mr Baldy]

So probably you think i'm just a bit confused! But i assure you, I am not the least bit confused! On the contrary, i am Understanding this whole matter very Clearly....and so will you, if you follow with an open heart and mind, what i'm going to be sharing in my next few posts.

My sincerest apologies to you Shorty.

Thanks for taking the extra time to explain your view point. I'd like to mention some of the times where I have either asked for clarification such as 536 BC verses 586 BC is because it was not established in your comments. You did not mention the 1st Temple or the 2nd Temple - and this is the reason why I mentioned Daniel 9:25 to paint a broader picture for clearer understanding. You have to remember that some are reading the comments here for the very first time - and may not be as well versed in Scripture as you are. Not to mention, sometimes what we post can be very long, and can often get "sidetracked" or convoluted with other information that may also relate to the main topic. I personally welcome that, as I see it as edification as well.

I'll close with this..... and will allow you time to make your case:

I think part of the problem with Daniel 12:11-12 comes in when those who attempt to interpret this particular passage of Scripture is when they want to include verse 13. Including verse 13 misses the main point of what Gabriel was telling Daniel.

God Bless - and Keep Christ on the Throne!

[Jay Ross]

{ST}, As we have agreed, it is prudent for us to wait for 12 months to see if your ideas are correct or not.

Your continuing to post without that confirmation means that you are pressing on even though in all likely hood that your premises are flawed and totally wrong.

I hope you don't think that I should not press on in writing until the 12 months is over because i have not yet finished presenting my ideas on this matter. I've just begun really.

But you have the audacity to tell me to stop posting the truth as I understand it with your following statement that you made:

If you had presented a rebuttal to what I had written to back up your unfounded claim, then, I would have no reason to become angry with you, but since you have not then I can only assume that you have no idea how to respond to the scripturally backed post that I had made. which does not fit your presentation on the topic of the "Tabernacles of his palace 12."

I'm sorry you are angry, but I hope you will realize that I intend to stay on track with my writing and do not wish to respond in any detail as to what you've written.....Yet.

You have an interesting idea about the 3.5 ages, can we please discuss it later, or in a different thread...maybe a thread that you can list dates that are common to most of us that you feel should be understood in ages.

Can I leave it at that please, and stay focused on what I still need to write?

But I too need to stay focused and to continue writing what I do in this thread to rebut your claims of understanding fully God's prophetic words concerning the End Times in our distant future over 1,000 years into our future. You are trying to establish connections with our past history that will bolt down your understanding of what is to happen in our near and distant future and the straws you are clutching onto at the moment are turning to dust in your very hands.

Previously you have attempted to prove me wrong on many occasions simply because you were not able to grasp the truth of what I had written.

Daniel 7:19ff correctly tells us that the four facetted beast and the little horn, who is also referred to as the False Prophet, will for three and a half years cause tribulation on the saints after their attempts to change the times and the Law, but both the four facetted beast and the Little Horn near the very end of the Millennium Age will be captured by Christ and cast into the Lake of Fire. Shortly afterwards, Satan is also captured and cast into the same lake of fire.

Ezekiel 47:1-12 paints a picture of a 4,000 year period of time of the river of life from the time that God occupied Solomon's Temple for a time, until the time that the Saints in the River of Life flow over the escarpment into the swamp and lowland below to bring healing to the whole earth over a very short period of time. The length of time taken to heal the land is not given in the Ezekiel 47:1-12 prophecy, but clues are provided in Daniel to help us understand what is to happen.

We know from Daniel 7:25 that the saints are given into Satan's hands for a period of three and a half times, i.e. 1,260 days.

From Daniel 12:11 we are told that there will be a period of 1,290 days where Satan, the false Prophet, the four facetted beast are captured and most likely also the unrighteous, and they all are punished by being dispatched into the lake of fire. This possibly occurs during the 30 days after the Great Tribulation of the Saints is ended, and only if the starting points for each time period is the same.

Then in Daniel 12:12 we are told that there will be a period of 1,335 days until the Saint receive their inheritance of the refurbished and healed earth. It will take a period of a further 45 days for the Saints to cleanse the earth of the bodies of the unrighteous armies that spread out across the earth to go up to Jerusalem as they imposed the Great Tribulation on the Saints before they can receive their inheritance. However, in Ezekiel 39:12 we are also told that the cleansing of the land will take seven months. This then means that the cleansing of the earth of the bodies of the armies being sent by Satan to Jerusalem began some days before the Great Tribulation started.

But all of this is a logical understanding of What God may be implementing to happen towards the end of the Millennium Age.

How important is it for us today to fully understand all of God's End Time Prophecies?

What is important for us today? Is it not to Love the Lord our God with all of our mind and our soul doing what is righteous in our sight? Will not God take care of the rest, by calling all of the birds of prey to come and feast on the dead bodies to begin the cleansing of the land?

St, the lens through which you are looking, is throwing you a curve ball to swing at with your bat, probably a length of a three by two, and it is not helping you come to an understanding where you can hit a home run and be safe from what may befall us Saints in the distant future.

What does the Lord require of you/all of us today, but to keep His Statutes and the work that He has prepared for you/all of us to do.

We all fall short when we try and present a rational explanation of what may happen in the future concerning the End Times. Our focus should always be doing the things that pleases the Lord, and so often I find that by focusing on explaining the End Times means that we are missing His mark and hearts desire for us/all of us to do His work during our lifetime.

Shalom

PS: - St I did not become angry at your words, only saddened by what you are trying to do.

[shorttribber]

Jay,
Would you be able to post a complete as possible outline of your end time position on a thread designed specifically for sharing it in it's fullness.
The shorttrib/prewrath thread I have done is something like what I'm referring to.

I'm just trying to stay focused on what I need to write still on this thread, and can't address all that you are asking of me currently.

[shorttribber]

So probably you think i'm just a bit confused! But i assure you, I am not the least bit confused! On the contrary, i am Understanding this whole matter very Clearly....and so will you, if you follow with an open heart and mind, what i'm going to be sharing in my next few posts.

My sincerest apologies to you Shorty.

Thanks for taking the extra time to explain your view point. I'd like to mention some of the times where I have either asked for clarification such as 536 BC verses 586 BC is because it was not established in your comments. You did not mention the 1st Temple or the 2nd Temple - and this is the reason why I mentioned Daniel 9:25 to paint a broader picture for clearer understanding. You have to remember that some are reading the comments here for the very first time - and may not be as well versed in Scripture as you are. Not to mention, sometimes what we post can be very long, and can often get "sidetracked" or convoluted with other information that may also relate to the main topic. I personally welcome that, as I see it as edification as well.

I'll close with this..... and will allow you time to make your case:

I think part of the problem with Daniel 12:11-12 comes in when those who attempt to interpret this particular passage of Scripture is when they want to include verse 13. Including verse 13 misses the main point of what Gabriel was telling Daniel.

God Bless - and Keep Christ on the Throne!

Thank you brother,
Just put a good post together and my goofy old computer dumped it all in nowhere land.

Oh well, what can ya do? Just Praise God, guess that one was just for practice



I get up early, better leave it alone tonight.
Sure wish I had better typing and computer skills!

[shorttribber]

Sorry for the delay again Mr. B., Have been spending some of my spare time nursing a pregnant goat of ours back to health. We think she got bit by our neighbors dog or something. Hope she doesn't need a trip to the vet, will know in a couple days.
She needs prayer, her name is Cookie.

I know God loves Cookie, please touch her Lord.

[Loop]

Prayers for Cookie... Yes God loves all his creation...

[shorttribber]

Hi again, finally, Mr. B.,
Let me start this with the things i believe we agree on and then proceed from there.

When you said this...

Dave Majchrzak is WRONG. Jesus Never "referred to 1,290 Days as being a "future event."
These are the points I have been refuting in what you are posting. Your numbers aren't adding up - and neither is Dave Majchurzak's as far as anything FUTURE. He admits in his own words (you have posted) that the 1,290 related to Antiochus Epiphanes IV. This is PAST ...it has been fulfilled already.

Some of what we agree on is highlighted in blue, the other parts I'll mention later.
We agree that the 1,290 "day" period has had Past fulfillment.
We agree, i believe, that the 1,290 "days" have had multiple fulfilments; TWO 24 hour day fulfilments (167 BC and 70 AD) , and TWO "Day for a Year" fulfillments.
To recap, the TWO "Day for a Year" fulfilments were, 586/87 BC (1st stopping of the "DailY") until 705 Gentile Gregorian TIME (Al Aqsa Mosque)....
AND...586/87 (1st stopping of the "DailY") until 687 Jewish/Lunar TIME (Dome of The Rock).

At this point, i want to mention some of the Reasons for those FOUR fulfillments thus far.

First. As i mentioned earlier the "Day for a Year" fulfillments always seem to be connected to Judgement.
Second. The 24 hour actual Days have also been connected with Judgement, just in a different way.

let me explain it this way. the first taking away of the "Daily", and the destruction of the First Temple, was an Immediate Judgement! It occurred to Those who Lived in "THOSE DAYS".
For example, God warned Isreal through the prophets and the PEOPLE, in "THOSE DAYS" did not repent!
Those Very People, in "THOSE DAYS" suffered God's Judgment, and 1,290 of "Those Days" were fulfilled, Upon THEM.

Now, the "Day for a Year" Judgement/Fulfilment was upon their children and their children's children.

This same Kind of judgment was repeated in 167 BC and 70 AD.....BOTH on Unbelieving Isreal.

Remember the words of Isreal? "His blood be on us AND our children!".

Jesus said in Luke 21...

22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.
24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

That TIME of Wrath and Vengence was during "Those Days" that THEY personally experienced for 1290 days (@70AD), right Mr. B.?

Now, he didn't say "that ALL things which are written may be fulfilled", as though ALL prophecy would END after that occurrence of God's wrath.
He said that meaning, that Nothing WRITTEN would be LEFT OUT pertaining to Wrath and Vengeance upon unbelieving Israel and Those who said "his blood be on us AND our children".

BECAUSE of THAT Desolation, in 70 AD, their land was left desolate, and temple mount laid Ready for The Tabernacles of the Spirit of Antichrist's Palace!

Now, there came a TIME in Bible Prophecy that the 1,290 "DAYS" Judgements and a FUTURE 1,335 "Day" judgment would Intersect.


Why, first of all, would that TIME intersection come?

Here is the Answer, and it is akin to many answers regarding Bible prophecy.

Christ! Christ is the Reason. Remember Mr. B. ALL Bible prophecy is Centered on Christ, Not Israel!

Now let me explain that. I am not one who believes that Isreal has nothing at all to do with Bible prophecy anymore, as if The Nation of Isreal or Literal Jews mean nothing in the prophetic picture. I think that thinking of that kind is WAY out of Balance.

I just believe that Christ Himself is the Center of Bible prophecy, and Not Isreal, it's that simple.

Now since Christ Himself is THAT Center, It is also incumbent that ALL Prophetic TIME Intersect BECAUSE of Him.
THAT is why Prophecy is Multi-layered! He is, Past, Present and Future, He IS the LIVING WORD!

He is the Promised SEED, Messiah/Christ of the Jew First and Also of the Gentiles. His WORD is to us All, BECAUSE there Has Always Been and will Always Be ONE PEOPLE of God! One Household of Faith!

Many prophecies, spoken as One prophecy, is Not One Prophecy though. The One Prophecy has been, IS, and WILL BE for Many Kinds of People, Believing and Unbelieving Jews, and Believing and Unbelieving Gentiles.

So, we are able to SEE the Evidence of One certain prophecy apply to Some specific people in the past, and to a Group of People over extended periods of Time, as the Day for a Year kind Was, and Is.

Now, how does the 1,290 and the 1,335 intersect and Why?
Again, Christ! We see no evidence that i've heard of that pertains to any fulfillment of 1,335 days from the Past.
Do you know of any Mr. B.? Does anybody know of any fulfillment of 1,335 literal days in the Past?

The Intersection of TIME regarding the TWO TIMES ( 1,290 and 1,335) is Because Christ, who made it possible that the gospel would go to the Gentiles, set before US (Gentiles) the Same Choices that were given to Isreal. Choose Life or Choose Death, but with Grace being given to us by the preaching of the gospel!

Christ Came in the "Fulness of TIME". He set before the Gentiles a Certain Marker in TIME that has Judgemental Qualities to it that Pertain ONLY to the Gentiles, but as a Result of what Occurred TO the Jews.

God is Fuming Hot at the spirit of antichrist and unbelieving Gentiles for the Abomination that sits where the holy of holies once was!

Remember, From the first removing of the "daily" until the Dome of The Rock in Jewish Time was 1,290 days (day for a year).
What i am now saying is That the Time of Jewish Judgement, that was "Upon their Children and their Children's Children", Because of the Desolation of 70 AD, BEGAN about 687 AD and has been ongoing as we Speak!
ANDGod is going to POUR OUT HIS WRATH on the Unbelieving Gentile WORLD in Part, BECAUSE of
That Detestable thing, and the suffering that they have joined in against the Jews!

That TIME Period (the 1,335) is a Shared Period of Vengence! And will be Demonstrated to be such when the 1,290 literal Days to come, END in the 1,335th Year of THAT Period.

Those TIME Periods, "THOSE DAYS" Have been a Past, Present, and Future Period of Judgment!

I'm not done yet!

I will yet explain how the future 1,290 Literal "Days" and the remainder of the 1,335 "Days" (day for a year), YET APPLY to The Faithful, Household of Faith.

On my next post.

Hint, it's All about Judgement. It's about Judgment For and Judgment Against!

And the Judgment Shall Sit!

Daniel 7
25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.
26 But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end.

[Mr Baldy]

I just believe that Christ Himself is the Center of Bible prophecy, and Not Isreal, it's that simple.

This we agree on.

So a question for me is.... Why did Jesus come to Earth as a Living Sacrifice when He came?

We see no evidence that i've heard of that pertains to any fulfillment of 1,335 days from the Past. Do you know of any Mr. B.? Does anybody know of any fulfillment of 1,335 literal days in the Past?

Shorty - there appears to be historical evidence that the fulfillment of the 1,335 literal days were fulfilled in the past, as recorded by Historian Josephus. I believe I provided this very interesting read to you before - but here is it again:

http://truebiblecode.com/understanding153.html

Now, I don't want to interrupt your message too much - but I have a question....

If the 1,290 days & 1,335 days have already been fulfilled - if what was the Great Tribulation in "those days" has already been fulfilled - how would this effect your End Time Eschatological View Point?

I'm asking this question for a reason.....

[shorttribber]

I just believe that Christ Himself is the Center of Bible prophecy, and Not Isreal, it's that simple.

This we agree on.

So a question for me is.... Why did Jesus come to Earth as a Living Sacrifice when He came?

We see no evidence that i've heard of that pertains to any fulfillment of 1,335 days from the Past. Do you know of any Mr. B.? Does anybody know of any fulfillment of 1,335 literal days in the Past?

Shorty - there appears to be historical evidence that the fulfillment of the 1,335 literal days were fulfilled in the past, as recorded by Historian Josephus. I believe I provided this very interesting read to you before - but here is it again:

http://truebiblecode.com/understanding153.html

Now, I don't want to interrupt your message too much - but I have a question....

If the 1,290 days & 1,335 days have already been fulfilled - if what was the Great Tribulation in "those days" has already been fulfilled - how would this effect your End Time Eschatological View Point?

I'm asking this question for a reason.....

My viewpoint would not be effected negetivly , it would only be improved by the understanding that the 1,335 had or has literal day fulfillment, and day for a year fullment, just as the 1,290.
The Layers of fulfillment are clear and evident.

As to your first question.

The short answer I would say is, Communion and Fulfilled Testimony.

That is our reason also for offering ourselves as living sacrifices.

And also, thank you for still pausing some.

The next post, as I said, will focus on the Glorious and Victorious fulfillments of the Household of Faith, and how "Those Days" are fulfilled by a Righteous and Mighty God on behalf of his Elect!

[shorttribber]

The next post, as I said, will focus on the Glorious and Victorious fulfillments of the Household of Faith, and how "Those Days" are fulfilled by a Righteous and Mighty God on behalf of his Elect!

Hi Mr. B.
Finally, i've managed the time to do this post! Wow, hard to believe so much time has passed since my last one.

First, i wanted to thank you for reminding me to read your link again and show me where the 1,335 day period did have a literal fulfillment! It's always amazing to me how learning of new True information will always reinforce Truth, and strengthen itself.

While i had not seen before a literal year fulfillment of the 1,335 time period, it fits perfectly into the position i have and does the following...

My viewpoint would not be affected negatively, it would only be improved by the understanding that the 1,335 had or has literal day fulfillment, and day for a year fulfillment, just as the 1,290.
The Layers of fulfillment are clear and evident.

On now to how the whole picture fits, AND, "adds up".

I want to repost something i already wrote, that speaks to the idea that ALL of Daniel 12, all the way to the end, does have a FINAL ENDTIME application and Expected future fulfillment.

When i wrote the following........

........................................."First, in this post, i would like to point out Why i believe that the whole of Daniel 12 does refer to the very Last of the "Last Days".
It has been argued that the Reference to Daniel's resurrection described at the end of the chapter does not actually mean that Daniel is to be resurrected at the "End" of "THE Days" described in that chapter.

Well, i think that to deny that is an act of working very hard to Not See what the Plain Text is saying...for example.

We are, in Every Case i can think of, to find the Context of a given scripture in a chapter By the Words first mentioned in That chapter.
I suppose it is possible not to, but i think we do a disservice to our own understanding of any text to not Begin at verse One to form the foundation of that text.

With that basic rule in mind.. let's look at the parameters we should stay in as we Comprehend the whole chapter.

1.1 "And at that time"......1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

Now let's look at a couple of very important things in this verse.
We know that Jesus uses almost the exact words when describing "Those Days" spoken by Daniel the prophet.
We are also told in this verse that "at THAT Time" Daniels people WOULD BE DELIVERED, everyone found written in the book."............................................

Clearly, i missed not only One, but Two examples in history where the 1,335 have been literally fulfilled.

Again, thank you Mr. B. for helping me get that corrected.

Regarding the two fulfillments, they were. From the time of Antiochus Epiphanes' assault on Jerusalem until his death in 164 BC, and the 70 AD destruction of Jerusalem by Titus. See...Matthew Poole on the 1,335 days and Judahs Maccabees, and the example you gave in your link.


Regarding the first fulfillment, again that is why i wrote the following erlier also.....
............................"Let me interject something here now too, Do you think the destruction DURING the TIME of Antiochus Epiphanes would have caused extreme confusion among the leaders of Israel based on the first verse? And would the confusion have not been reinforced by the certain numbers being "Fulfilled" at the end of Daniel?
Think about that a moment.

The scripture Plainly Says that "at THAT TIME" such and such, They WERE To Be "Delivered"! EVERY ONE found written in the book!

They got overrun! Destroyed! They did not get delivered. Right?"................................................

As the "Leaders" i'm referring of course to the Sadducees and Pharisees. here is what i find a bit interesting, and Why i think they had a disagreement about a Literal resurrection of the body.

I think that they could have been divided as to the 1,335 "Day" fulfillment, and the Expected "Resurrection" of Daniel at the END of "The Days".

There was confusion! And Today, there also remains "Confusion", and for much of the same reason!
They Knew there was a Literal Fulfillment of "Those Days", but they didn't understand the Layers and Types that Point to the "Grand Finale"!

Do you see where you could be falling into the same trap and confusion Mr. B.? You clearly understand Types and Shadows in Bible prophecy Do Exist. For some reason though, you Refuse to see that Those Types and Shadows exist regarding the 1,290 AND 1,335 days at the end of Daniel 12! AND RC Sproul makes the same error! Christ did not lie, but that does not mean there is no future time of fulfillment as to what Christ said! The destruction occurred, just as Christ said in 70 AD, but THAT'S NOT THE END of the Prophecy!

You admit to the examples of fulfillment passed but can't imagine or admit that "Those Days" (1,290 and 1,335) have a "Grand Finale" future fulfillment.

What is quite interesting to me regarding the 1,335 day fulfillment regarding Judahs Maccabees is the clear victory he achieved with the armies of Israel after Epiphanee's destruction! He tore down the altar set up of Apollo and they got the victory after the Death of Antiochus, 45 DAYS Later!

BUT......There was No Resurrection!!!!!!

Can you see the Type and Shadow in that Mr. B.? It's Amazing!

Antiochus (a Type of Antichrist), Destroyed BY DEATH at the End of the First 1,335 day fulfillment!

The "Grand Finale" will include the End of Antichrist at the End of the 1,335 "Days" That are CURRENTLY Being Fulfilled!

Now to sum up these numbers.......

The 1,260 days will be fulfilled as you know, in the future.
The 30 Days will also follow that 1,260, and bring to a total number of Literal "Days" of Great Tribulation to 1,290. "Those Last DAYS", (30 of them) will be an Outpouring of God's Wrath.
When the 1,290 Literal future "Days" come to and END, it will occur in the year 1,335.....for "There SHALL BE 1,290 Days"

As i said, the 1,335 day for a year prophecy is ongoing, and we are in the time period of its fulfillment currently.
When we are in the Last Year of the 1,335 Years, the Great Tribulation, 1,290 Days of it, Wil END.

[WOODHENOT3]

Very interesting Shorttribber!!

I agree on the layers or prophecy... we shall see if 2021 is the year the GT begins....

Persevere in the Lord!

[Mr Baldy]

Hi Shorty -

Do you see where you could be falling into the same trap and confusion Mr. B.? You clearly understand Types and Shadows in Bible prophecy Do Exist. For some reason though, you Refuse to see that Those Types and Shadows exist regarding the 1,290 AND 1,335 days at the end of Daniel 12

To answer your question - Yes, absolutely I see where "Type and Shadows" as far as Bible Prophecy is concerned has left a blueprint for several different fulfilments of prophecy during the course of time. But I think you are overlooking something here.....

The thing that I believe you are overlooking very clearly is the time period Gabriel gave to Daniel for these things to be fulfilled. (Daniel 12:7) I believe this is key to understanding this mystery.

I've mentioned this over, and over again - Scripture identifies multiple times in which 1,260 days is provided as it relates to Antichrist; Persecution; and the time of "Jacobs Trouble." The only time you see 1,290 & 1,335 days are in the last verses of Daniel 12 - so we should not be making an End Time paradigm based solely on this information. The time period of 1,260 days has been corroborated multiple times in Scripture and points directly to the time period occurring on Earth just prior to the Return of Christ.

Shorty - the more and more I'm studying Scripture and the End Time, the more and more I'm becoming convinced that these end time things aren't as complicated as we as students of bible prophecy are making them. I appreciate you examining the link I sent as far as the historical fulfilment of the 1,290 & 1,335 days - and very frankly, I believe it ends there. Those days have been literally fulfilled - both prophetically, and historically in my opinion.

So, if we were to examine what I am suggesting - and that is we have a future 3.5 year period of time. It's very obvious, from the reading of Scripture that Christ did indeed die in the 70th week. There is absolutely no doubt about that. So in understanding that, I have come to realize that there is NOT a future 7 year time period that remains unfulfilled.

When Jesus said He will come as a "Thief in the Night" - and He gave multiple warnings by way of parables to believers, then I believe He meant exactly what He said. I believe in a Rapture - just that it occurs AT His Coming, and not a moment before. I also now believe in ONE General Resurrection - just as mentioned in John 5:28-29, and not 2 resurrections separated by a period of 1,000 or 1,007 years. I no longer believe in a literal Millennial Kingdom - where those who have mortal bodies will co-habit the Earth with those who have immortal bodies - this cannot be supported with Scripture.

You see when Jesus Returns - He Comes in Great Power and Great Glory. There will be no second chances; no reason for animal sacrifices or a so-called 3rd Temple; no reason to allow mortals who have allegedly become saved during the Great Tribulation period to enter a so-called Millennial Kingdom to repopulate the Earth. I mean why? What would be the purpose of this? Jesus' Return is the END of things as we know it, and Eternity Begins. There is no reason to believe anything else.

Keep Christ on the Throne!

[shorttribber]

Hi Shorty -

Do you see where you could be falling into the same trap and confusion Mr. B.? You clearly understand Types and Shadows in Bible prophecy Do Exist. For some reason though, you Refuse to see that Those Types and Shadows exist regarding the 1,290 AND 1,335 days at the end of Daniel 12

To answer your question - Yes, absolutely I see where "Type and Shadows" as far as Bible Prophecy is concerned has left a blueprint for several different fulfilments of prophecy during the course of time. But I think you are overlooking something here.....

The thing that I believe you are overlooking very clearly is the time period Gabriel gave to Daniel for these things to be fulfilled. (Daniel 12:7) I believe this is key to understanding this mystery.

I've mentioned this over, and over again - Scripture identifies multiple times in which 1,260 days is provided as it relates to Antichrist; Persecution; and the time of "Jacobs Trouble." The only time you see 1,290 & 1,335 days are in the last verses of Daniel 12 - so we should not be making an End Time paradigm based solely on this information. The time period of 1,260 days has been corroborated multiple times in Scripture and points directly to the time period occurring on Earth just prior to the Return of Christ.

Shorty - the more and more I'm studying Scripture and the End Time, the more and more I'm becoming convinced that these end time things aren't as complicated as we as students of bible prophecy are making them. I appreciate you examining the link I sent as far as the historical fulfilment of the 1,290 & 1,335 days - and very frankly, I believe it ends there. Those days have been literally fulfilled - both prophetically, and historically in my opinion.

So, if we were to examine what I am suggesting - and that is we have a future 3.5 year period of time. It's very obvious, from the reading of Scripture that Christ did indeed die in the 70th week. There is absolutely no doubt about that. So in understanding that, I have come to realize that there is NOT a future 7 year time period that remains unfulfilled.

When Jesus said He will come as a "Thief in the Night" - and He gave multiple warnings by way of parables to believers, then I believe He meant exactly what He said. I believe in a Rapture - just that it occurs AT His Coming, and not a moment before. I also now believe in ONE General Resurrection - just as mentioned in John 5:28-29, and not 2 resurrections separated by a period of 1,000 or 1,007 years. I no longer believe in a literal Millennial Kingdom - where those who have mortal bodies will co-habit the Earth with those who have immortal bodies - this cannot be supported with Scripture.

You see when Jesus Returns - He Comes in Great Power and Great Glory. There will be no second chances; no reason for animal sacrifices or a so-called 3rd Temple; no reason to allow mortals who have allegedly become saved during the Great Tribulation period to enter a so-called Millennial Kingdom to repopulate the Earth. I mean why? What would be the purpose of this? Jesus' Return is the END of things as we know it, and Eternity Begins. There is no reason to believe anything else.

Keep Christ on the Throne!

We agree on much, and disagree on not much.
Maybe we will just be ok with that.

[WOODHENOT3]

Mr. Baldy wrote:

You see when Jesus Returns - He Comes in Great Power and Great Glory. There will be no second chances; no reason for animal sacrifices or a so-called 3rd Temple; no reason to allow mortals who have allegedly become saved during the Great Tribulation period to enter a so-called Millennial Kingdom to repopulate the Earth. I mean why? What would be the purpose of this? Jesus' Return is the END of things as we know it, and Eternity Begins. There is no reason to believe anything else.

I agree, I honestly believe when Jesus comes, it is FINISHED...TIME will change prior to His Coming, if we are in spiritual bodies, we are not going to need a watch... :)

[Mr Baldy]

We agree on much, and disagree on not much. Maybe we will just be ok with that.

Agreed Shorty -

Honestly, because of some of the most excellent posts you have made over the past few years - you've challenged me to delve deeper into Scripture. I have to say that the biggest thing you helped me to realize is that Jesus was indeed crucified in the 70th week. I appreciate your hard work, and very apparent love for the Word of God.

We're not done Shorty. There is much work to do for the Kingdom of God. Through our continuous fellowship, challenging each other and rightly dividing the Word of God in humility, and respectfulness - even as we disagree; I believe God is pleased, as I feel what each and everyone of us do on this forum provides edification.

Love Ya Brother!

Keep Christ on the Throne!

[Mr Baldy]

I agree, I honestly believe when Jesus comes, it is FINISHED...TIME will change prior to His Coming, if we are in spiritual bodies, we are not going to need a watch... :)

Hi Woody!

Amazing comments - Here is a couple of Scriptures that come to mind when I think about the Return of Christ:

1 John 3:2 - New American Standard Bible

Beloved, now we are children of God, and it has not appeared as yet what we will be. We know that when He appears, we will be like Him, because we will see Him just as He is.

1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 - New American Standard Bible


Those Who Died in Christ

13) But we do not want you to be uninformed, brothers and sisters, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as indeed the rest of mankind do, who have no hope. 14) For if we believe that Jesus died and rose from the dead, so also God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep through Jesus. 15) For we say this to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16) For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17) Then we who are alive, who remain, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord. 18) Therefore, comfort one another with these words.

The aforementioned verses of Scripture always brings me comfort and reassurance. If you'll notice in verse 15 (in the section I underlined and enlarged) you should see where this "Rapture" occurs at His Coming. It further describes the Resurrection. This is yet another verse that proves to me there is no Pre-Tribulation Rapture. It's so clear that we are gathered unto Him or "caught up" to meet the Lord in the air - and from then on "We will ALWAYS be with the Lord."
This is our Eternity - as we will have been changed.

Just another note on this...… there is a passage of Scripture describing the angels ascending and descending on Christ - I have often wondered if they are actually gathering believers at the time of His Return

John 1:51- New American Standard Bible

And He *said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, you will see heaven opened and the angels of God ascending and descending on the Son of Man.”

Just wondering...……..

[shorttribber]

We agree on much, and disagree on not much. Maybe we will just be ok with that.

Agreed Shorty -

Honestly, because of some of the most excellent posts you have made over the past few years - you've to me to delve deeper into Scripture. I have to say that the biggest thing you helped me to realize is that Jesus was indeed crucified in the 70th week. I appreciate your hard work, and very apparent love for the Word of God.

We're not done Shorty. There is much work to do for the Kingdom of God. Through our continuous fellowship, challenging each other and rightly dividing the Word of God in humility, and respectfulness - even as we disagree; I believe God is pleased, as I feel what each and everyone of us do on this forum provides edification.

Love Ya Brother!

Keep Christ on the Throne!

Thank you for the very kind words Mr. B... ..what an understatement, "We're not done"


The Best is yet to come

The Testimony of Jesus is the Spirit of Prophecy!


The Power, Glory, and His Kingdom is almost at hand!

Get ready for it!

[WOODHENOT3]

I agree, I honestly believe when Jesus comes, it is FINISHED...TIME will change prior to His Coming, if we are in spiritual bodies, we are not going to need a watch... :)

Hi Woody!

Amazing comments - Here is a couple of Scriptures that come to mind when I think about the Return of Christ:

1 John 3:2 - New American Standard Bible

Beloved, now we are children of God, and it has not appeared as yet what we will be. We know that when He appears, we will be like Him, because we will see Him just as He is.

1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 - New American Standard Bible


Those Who Died in Christ

13) But we do not want you to be uninformed, brothers and sisters, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as indeed the rest of mankind do, who have no hope. 14) For if we believe that Jesus died and rose from the dead, so also God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep through Jesus. 15) For we say this to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16) For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17) Then we who are alive, who remain, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord. 18) Therefore, comfort one another with these words.

The aforementioned verses of Scripture always brings me comfort and reassurance. If you'll notice in verse 15 (in the section I underlined and enlarged) you should see where this "Rapture" occurs at His Coming. It further describes the Resurrection. This is yet another verse that proves to me there is no Pre-Tribulation Rapture. It's so clear that we are gathered unto Him or "caught up" to meet the Lord in the air - and from then on "We will ALWAYS be with the Lord."
This is our Eternity - as we will have been changed.

Just another note on this...… there is a passage of Scripture describing the angels ascending and descending on Christ - I have often wondered if they are actually gathering believers at the time of His Return

John 1:51- New American Standard Bible

And He *said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, you will see heaven opened and the angels of God ascending and descending on the Son of Man.”

Just wondering...……..

Hi Mr. Baldy,

I wondered myself, even though it only speaks of angels. I see "caught up" the same meaning as ascending or meeting up, I hate the word "rapture" to be honest...when Jesus ascended to heaven 2000 years ago, I never heard anyone saying, Jesus was raptured...When Jesus Comes, we will be joined with Him, praise God!