The beinning of the 70th week

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Re: The beinning of the 70th week

Postby brett on Tue May 02, 2017 3:43 am

For God sakes people watch this video - for God's sake and your own sake watch this video. If you don't watch this video you are not going to receive a rich blessing. I have been following Steven Anderson for over a year now, I have learnt a tremendous amount from his teaching from the KJV. Please watch his sermons on Revelations - you miss out terribly brothers and sisters by not watching this mans sermons. This one is particularly relevant

The Timing Of The Rapture
https://youtu.be/P1ftRFBYTSQ

PLEASE WATCH THIS SERMON - this is me yelling ! JUST WATCH IT !

.
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Re: The beinning of the 70th week

Postby WOODHENOT3 on Tue May 02, 2017 5:20 am

Mr Baldy,

If the "he" is Christ - then it flows with what has been mentioned in the previous verses, and allows for the future Antichrist to come in and cause the Abomination that causes desolation - and further reconciles Scripture with what Jesus referred to in Matthew 24:15.


How so? Daniel 9:26 does not mention an AC.... what's wrong with Prince Titus who destroyed the city of Jerusalem and the Temple?
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Re: The beinning of the 70th week

Postby Mr Baldy on Tue May 02, 2017 5:58 am

WOODHENOT3 wrote:How so? Daniel 9:26 does not mention an AC.... what's wrong with Prince Titus who destroyed the city of Jerusalem and the Temple?


This is True......thanks for catching that Woody. :mrgreen:

Antiochus Epiphanes IV ruled Palestine from 175-64 B.C

I have made this mistake before with the BC and AD dates.

Point of the matter is I believe as you do - that the 70 weeks have concluded, and historical evidence proves this fact.
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Re: The beinning of the 70th week

Postby keithareilly on Tue May 02, 2017 8:24 am

brett wrote:For God sakes people watch this video - for God's sake and your own sake watch this video. If you don't watch this video you are not going to receive a rich blessing. I have been following Steven Anderson for over a year now, I have learnt a tremendous amount from his teaching from the KJV. Please watch his sermons on Revelations - you miss out terribly brothers and sisters by not watching this mans sermons. This one is particularly relevant

The Timing Of The Rapture
https://youtu.be/P1ftRFBYTSQ

PLEASE WATCH THIS SERMON - this is me yelling ! JUST WATCH IT !

.


Brett, Just because we see the 70th week as over, does not mean we do not anticipate future events such as the rapture.

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Re: The beinning of the 70th week

Postby brett on Tue May 02, 2017 10:16 am

keithareilly wrote:
brett wrote:For God sakes people watch this video - for God's sake and your own sake watch this video. If you don't watch this video you are not going to receive a rich blessing. I have been following Steven Anderson for over a year now, I have learnt a tremendous amount from his teaching from the KJV. Please watch his sermons on Revelations - you miss out terribly brothers and sisters by not watching this mans sermons. This one is particularly relevant

The Timing Of The Rapture
https://youtu.be/P1ftRFBYTSQ

PLEASE WATCH THIS SERMON - this is me yelling ! JUST WATCH IT !

.


Brett, Just because we see the 70th week as over, does not mean we do not anticipate future events such as the rapture.

Keith



Did you watch the video? Just watch the sermon, please.

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KJV ONLY !
The KJV is the only PURE translation. Avoid modern corruptions like the NIV, they have been altered to support the coming Anti-Christ.
"The words of the Lord are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Thou shalt keep them, O Lord, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever." Psalm 12:6-7
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Re: The beinning of the 70th week

Postby brett on Tue May 02, 2017 3:30 pm

Did anyone manage to watch the sermon?

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KJV ONLY !
The KJV is the only PURE translation. Avoid modern corruptions like the NIV, they have been altered to support the coming Anti-Christ.
"The words of the Lord are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Thou shalt keep them, O Lord, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever." Psalm 12:6-7
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Re: The beinning of the 70th week

Postby keithareilly on Tue May 02, 2017 5:56 pm

Had stop but will continue. Busy Day.
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Re: The beinning of the 70th week

Postby Ready1 on Tue May 02, 2017 7:43 pm

Yes
Just observing.

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Re: The beinning of the 70th week

Postby brett on Tue May 02, 2017 10:40 pm

I think he totally nails the 1335 days in Daniel.

1335 days = 1260 days (1st half of Daniels 70th week) + 75 days (after AOD)

So 1335 days into Daniels 70th week is when the rapture occurs, which is also 75 days after the AOD

I think the 3 confirmations he gives are excellent:

(1) The Hebrew calendar, the Feast of blowing of the trumpets (Alarm) on the 1st of the 7th month (AOD) and the Jubilee on the 10th of the 7th month, 10 days later. 1335 / 7 = 190 days = 10th day of the 7th month = jubilee = rapture. Also giving meaning to Rev 2:10
(2) The disciples crossing the sea of Galilee & the storm in the middle - them being approx 3.7 miles across the 7 mile sea & Jesus appearing and rescuing them and they immediately then being on the other side of the shore, rescued & their troubled journey cut short.
(3) The captivity of Jehoiachin king of Judah, during the 70 year captivity in babylon. Him being freed from the prison, given new garments and seated at the kings throne and fed the rest of his life by the king of Babylon. This happening in the 37th year of the 70 year captivity. Jeremiah 52:31-34

All 3 cases matching the ratio of the 1335 days in Daniel, all stories (parables) having matching parallels to the tribulation and rapture. Total days in Daniels 70th week = 1260+1290 = 2550 days.
1335/2550 ~= 0.52
190/360 ~= 0.52
3.7/7 ~= 0.52
37/70 ~= 0.52

Also something else I noticed. In Noah's Flood, the Wrath (the RAIN) lasted 40 days & 40 nights. In Daniels 70th week the Wrath lasts 2550-1335 = 1215 days which also roughly equals 40 months, there's that number 40 again. Also note that Noah started entering the Ark, filling it with supplies and the animals 7 days prior to the rains starting. Note the 7 Seals of revelation prior to the 40 months of Wrath. Not sure if this means anything - just something I noticed, not part of the sermon.


.
KJV ONLY !
The KJV is the only PURE translation. Avoid modern corruptions like the NIV, they have been altered to support the coming Anti-Christ.
"The words of the Lord are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Thou shalt keep them, O Lord, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever." Psalm 12:6-7
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Re: The beinning of the 70th week

Postby Mr Baldy on Wed May 03, 2017 4:30 am

brett wrote:So 1335 days into Daniels 70th week is when the rapture occurs, which is also 75 days after the AOD


Hi Brett,

I watched the video. Very respectfully to you, and thank you for bringing this to the forum for us to examine.

Steven Anderson, whom I've watched before, and greatly respect actually misses the mark on this one. Although he mentions that "No man knows the Day or Hour" - he clearly attempts to identify the Rapture at the 1,335 day mark, which is basically a Mid-Tribulation View. Additionally, he sets the Great Tribulation as lasting only 75 Days - and Scripture is very clear that the Church is persecuted by the Antichrist for 3.5 years.

He identifies the "he" in Daniel 9:27 as being the coming Antichrist. Well, depending on which Translation of Scripture you use - the 'he' can also be identified as Christ.

Over, and over again Scripture identifies a Final 3.5 year period. The Book of Daniel is the only Book that identifies a week - but it doesn't mention this week as Future, which is definitely in contrast to 3.5 years. In addition to that, the 70 weeks that were determined pointed to Christ. It clearly mentions that Christ was Crucified in the 70th Week.

In the video he tells us not to use charts, maps, symbols ect... .to determine the timing of the Rapture - yet this is exactly what he does. Furthermore he says that he does not "date set". Well, if we are told to watch for the appearing of the AOD - and he identifies the Rapture at day 1,335 - then what is he doing if that's not "date setting"?

Finally, if he has the Rapture of the Church occurring at day 1,335 (meaning the Church is Raptured on day 75 after the AOD) - Then who is Christ Gathering at His Coming? And what happens with the 1185 days that would be left? Is he saying that God's Wrath is poured out for 1185 days? Keep in mind that the Book of Daniel and Revelation clearly states that the Saints will be handed over to the Antichrist for 3.5 years.

That's just my take on the video.
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Re: The beinning of the 70th week

Postby WOODHENOT3 on Wed May 03, 2017 8:02 am

I've watched the video too...Steve Anderson as I see it, is deceived and he pridefully thinks he has all the answers and all the comments under his video as people loved the way he preached it. It makes sense to them because they feel they are going to escape sooner and all the left behind are going to suffer... I think Steve Anderson is a hypocrite of the way he said about the timing of the rapture... he made his own mapping, theory and timeline right there...

IMO, I think a lot of people are so focused on the Rapture then they are focused on Christ. There's always this rapture rant.... so many people are worried about the rapture and want to escape their rapture pods, and their escape will be denied... let's not be deceived and focus fully on Jesus instead of the "Sci=Fi Rapture"... the Jews were deceived by their focused on the coming Messiah, the powerful King that would destroy the Romans and it didn't happen that way and they did not believe Jesus was the Messiah... I see it the same way as many people are focused on the "Rapture Jesus" instead of the "Coming of Christ"... I'm cautious....

There will be 3 1/2 years the AC will persecute the Saints and the Bible says so, if anyone says we are going to escape before or during that is a liar...if we are IN CHRIST, we have nothing to fear.... Jesus is coming soon, not the rapture is coming soon....
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Re: The beinning of the 70th week

Postby Ready1 on Wed May 03, 2017 8:35 am

Steve Anderson makes the same assumption that every other prewrath proponent makes about Matthew 24. But it its an assumption that he takes for a fact, and then bases his whole endtime scenario upon.
Just observing.

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Re: The beinning of the 70th week

Postby WOODHENOT3 on Wed May 03, 2017 9:26 am

Ready1 wrote:Steve Anderson makes the same assumption that every other prewrath proponent makes about Matthew 24. But it its an assumption that he takes for a fact, and then bases his whole endtime scenario upon.


If the AC revealed today, Do you believe we who are christians who will be here during the 3 1/2 years of the AC persecuting us?
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Re: The beinning of the 70th week

Postby Abiding in His Word on Wed May 03, 2017 10:03 am

WOODHENOT3 wrote:IMO, I think a lot of people are so focused on the Rapture then they are focused on Christ.


Isn't that the truth??

In all fairness though, I think it's more the "timing" of the rapture that captures the attention. :wink:
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Re: The beinning of the 70th week

Postby WOODHENOT3 on Wed May 03, 2017 10:36 am

Abiding in His Word wrote:
WOODHENOT3 wrote:IMO, I think a lot of people are so focused on the Rapture then they are focused on Christ.


Isn't that the truth??

In all fairness though, I think it's more the "timing" of the rapture that captures the attention. :wink:


I agree, but i'd rather say the "timing" of His Coming.. Jesus is coming in one piece.. :banana:
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Re: The beinning of the 70th week

Postby Ready1 on Wed May 03, 2017 2:08 pm

woodhenot3 wrote:If the AC revealed today, Do you believe we who are christians who will be here during the 3 1/2 years of the AC persecuting us?


Are you asking the question: If the AC were revealed today, do I believe that we who are christians will be here for the next 3 1/2 years?

If that is your question I would say "I hope not", because the 3 1/2 years following the AOD go from bad to worse, to much worse, to worse than the world has ever seen or ever shall see.
Just observing.

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Re: The beinning of the 70th week

Postby WOODHENOT3 on Wed May 03, 2017 2:52 pm

Ready1 wrote:
woodhenot3 wrote:If the AC revealed today, Do you believe we who are christians who will be here during the 3 1/2 years of the AC persecuting us?


Are you asking the question: If the AC were revealed today, do I believe that we who are christians will be here for the next 3 1/2 years?

If that is your question I would say "I hope not", because the 3 1/2 years following the AOD go from bad to worse, to much worse, to worse than the world has ever seen or ever shall see.


Yes, excuse my careless grammar.... so scripture says the AC will persecute the Saints for 3 1/2 years, this is evident to prove the Saints will be here through out the Great Tribulations, then "After the Tribulations of those days, the Coming of Christ and God's wrath... do you see it this way?
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Re: The beinning of the 70th week

Postby brett on Wed May 03, 2017 3:16 pm

WOODHENOT3 wrote:
Ready1 wrote:
woodhenot3 wrote:If the AC revealed today, Do you believe we who are christians who will be here during the 3 1/2 years of the AC persecuting us?


Are you asking the question: If the AC were revealed today, do I believe that we who are christians will be here for the next 3 1/2 years?

If that is your question I would say "I hope not", because the 3 1/2 years following the AOD go from bad to worse, to much worse, to worse than the world has ever seen or ever shall see.


Yes, excuse my careless grammar.... so scripture says the AC will persecute the Saints for 3 1/2 years, this is evident to prove the Saints will be here through out the Great Tribulations, then "After the Tribulations of those days, the Coming of Christ and God's wrath... do you see it this way?


I do NOT believe the scriptures say that the SAME saints will be on earth for the Anti-Christs full 3.5 year reign. I believe this is the scripture you are referring to.

Daniel 7:25
And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.


This is not saying that the EXACT same saints are ALWAYS alive during the Anti-Christs rule. There will ALWAYS be saints on the earth - before the rapture and after the rapture. The 144,000 and the 2 witnesses are saints, they remain on earth during the Anti-Christs reign. People will get saved (probably young people) during the Anti-Christs reign too which also coincides with the Wrath of God. So even after the rapture there will be saints on earth. This Daniel scripture is telling us that the Anti-Christ will RULE the kingdoms of this earth for 3.5 years - that's the finite length of his reign. Whichever saints are on earth at whatever time - they will be subject to his RULE which will last 3.5 years. Its the same as what Revelation says:

Revelation 13:5
And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.


I believe is is an error to read Daniel 7:25 and think that means the saints alive prior to the AOD will be the exact same saints given into his hand for 3.5 years. I don't believe that's what Daniel 7:25 is saying, its just saying the Anti-Christ's RULE over this earth will last 3.5 years, that's the main point. WHATEVER saints are alive on earth - they will have to deal with his reign lasting 3.5 years. I know the 144,000 & the 2 witnesses will be on the earth during his reign - so they being saints will be given into his hand - subject to his rule - he will the KING of the earth and will not be dethroned for 3.5 years. That's what it means. Remember that the AC (Beast) kills the 2 witnesses at the end of his reign. When Jesus returns no saints will be subject to the AC's rule any longer, Jesus will end his reign of 3.5 years, that's when the Kingdoms of this Earth will become the Kingdoms of our Lord.

I caution any of you to so quickly dismiss Steven Anderson, it will be your loss if you do imho. I'm telling you that I have learnt a tremendous amount from his Revelation series and preaching. The man is certainly not perfect, no man is, but he has done some great work for the Lord and whoever is willing to listen will learn a great deal. When we get to heaven - if any of you ask Jesus - "why was prophecy so hard to understand? I was never fully able to understand it".....I think Jesus would say to you - "the answers and help were available to you - but you rejected the help".

.
Last edited by brett on Wed May 03, 2017 3:34 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: The beinning of the 70th week

Postby Ready1 on Wed May 03, 2017 3:29 pm

Yes, excuse my careless grammar.... so scripture says the AC will persecute the Saints for 3 1/2 years, this is evident to prove the Saints will be here through out the Great Tribulations, then "After the Tribulations of those days, the Coming of Christ and God's wrath... do you see it this way?


No, WOODHENOT3, I do not share the assumptions of prewrath.
Just observing.

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Re: The beinning of the 70th week

Postby WOODHENOT3 on Wed May 03, 2017 3:53 pm

Ready1 wrote:
Yes, excuse my careless grammar.... so scripture says the AC will persecute the Saints for 3 1/2 years, this is evident to prove the Saints will be here through out the Great Tribulations, then "After the Tribulations of those days, the Coming of Christ and God's wrath... do you see it this way?


No, WOODHENOT3, I do not share the assumptions of pre wrath.

So how is pre-wrath an assumption?
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Re: The beinning of the 70th week

Postby brett on Wed May 03, 2017 8:39 pm

Note another belief I have:

Daniel 11
32 And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits.
33 And they that understand among the people shall instruct many
: yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, many days.


I am expecting fresh revelation and new understanding to come as the day draws near. These prophetic matters will be opened to us as the day draws near. This scripture confirms that understanding will come, there will be believers who do understand and they shall instruct MANY. So I am expecting men to come who will teach correct teachings on bible prophecy. Although judging from this scripture they will come more as the events unfold.

So I am looking for men like Steven Anderson - others also - who will have a grasp of the prophecies and will instruct many. So brothers and sisters we will know when the time is right.

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Re: The beinning of the 70th week

Postby Ready1 on Wed May 03, 2017 9:45 pm

WOODHENOT3 wrote:
Ready1 wrote:
Yes, excuse my careless grammar.... so scripture says the AC will persecute the Saints for 3 1/2 years, this is evident to prove the Saints will be here through out the Great Tribulations, then "After the Tribulations of those days, the Coming of Christ and God's wrath... do you see it this way?


No, WOODHENOT3, I do not share the assumptions of pre wrath.


So how is pre-wrath an assumption?


I did not say that pre-wrath is an assumption. Pre-wrath proponents must make certain assumptions which lead to a pre-wrath conclusion. I simply do not share their assumptions, but Steve Anderson is a very good example of a person who does make those assumptions and comes to a pre-wrath conclusion. :grin:
Just observing.

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Re: The beinning of the 70th week

Postby Mr Baldy on Thu May 04, 2017 4:33 am

Ready1 wrote:Pre-wrath proponents must make certain assumptions which lead to a pre-wrath conclusion. I simply do not share their assumptions, but Steve Anderson is a very good example of a person who does make those assumptions and comes to a pre-wrath conclusion.


I have to "somewhat" agree with you here Ready1.

There are many varying degrees of the Pre-Wrath Rapture position. If one were to look very closely at Scripture however, there is actually no better description (imho) of the Rapture than the Post Tribulation view, as it unifies most other passages of Scripture relating to the Rapture.

I for one struggled with the how the different views were correct, and I would have a Post Tribulation view, but I could never get over the passage written in Revelation 7 - and how it harmonized with the 6th Seal and Matthew 24. This lead me to the Pre-Wrath position that I currently hold now.
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Re: The beinning of the 70th week

Postby WOODHENOT3 on Thu May 04, 2017 7:52 am

I caution any of you to so quickly dismiss Steven Anderson, it will be your loss if you do imho. I'm telling you that I have learnt a tremendous amount from his Revelation series and preaching. The man is certainly not perfect, no man is, but he has done some great work for the Lord and whoever is willing to listen will learn a great deal. When we get to heaven - if any of you ask Jesus - "why was prophecy so hard to understand? I was never fully able to understand it".....I think Jesus would say to you - "the answers and help were available to you - but you rejected the help".


I don't follow man Brett and my focus is onto Jesus rather than the timing of Steven's rapture, . and I wouldn't get so caught up of Steven's views if I were you... What I hate about many preachers is that they think they are so right and others are so wrong...I would caution people to read the Bible and to apply it in God's way and not man's..
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Re: The beinning of the 70th week

Postby brett on Thu May 04, 2017 2:28 pm

WOODHENOT3 wrote:
I caution any of you to so quickly dismiss Steven Anderson, it will be your loss if you do imho. I'm telling you that I have learnt a tremendous amount from his Revelation series and preaching. The man is certainly not perfect, no man is, but he has done some great work for the Lord and whoever is willing to listen will learn a great deal. When we get to heaven - if any of you ask Jesus - "why was prophecy so hard to understand? I was never fully able to understand it".....I think Jesus would say to you - "the answers and help were available to you - but you rejected the help".


I don't follow man Brett and my focus is onto Jesus rather than the timing of Steven's rapture, . and I wouldn't get so caught up of Steven's views if I were you... What I hate about many preachers is that they think they are so right and others are so wrong...I would caution people to read the Bible and to apply it in God's way and not man's..


IMHO a bit of humility goes a long way when seeking answers. I think we should all be willing to listen to (and test) the teachings of a lot of different believers (men) because alone we are limited - if I did bible study on my own, in a bubble, I'd not get very far. It's wise to look to other fellow believers for instruction & help, especially when they have more knowledge & insight.....that's one of the main purposes of the body of Christ. Why do we come here to these forums?

No one EVER finds a perfect preacher, all men have flaws. Even if Moses or the Apostle Paul were alive today, people would still pick fault with their ministries and doctrines. I glean what I can.....when I can.....I consider this to be a wise thing to do, and to show gratefulness of attitude.

Genuine insights and answers regarding bible prophecy are rare things......imho we should be grateful when they come and not be so hung up on through whom they come. We can all test things against the Word ourselves, at least we have something to test.

Last thought : God obviously uses men, and God uses you WOODHENOT3, would you discredit yourself? Are you saying we should ignore all your posts & not follow anything you say? Because you are a man........?

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Re: The beinning of the 70th week

Postby Exit40 on Fri May 05, 2017 9:11 am

brett wrote:
IMHO a bit of humility goes a long way when seeking answers. I think we should all be willing to listen to (and test) the teachings of a lot of different believers (men) because alone we are limited - if I did bible study on my own, in a bubble, I'd not get very far. It's wise to look to other fellow believers for instruction & help, especially when they have more knowledge & insight.....that's one of the main purposes of the body of Christ. Why do we come here to these forums?

No one EVER finds a perfect preacher, all men have flaws. Even if Moses or the Apostle Paul were alive today, people would still pick fault with their ministries and doctrines. I glean what I can.....when I can.....I consider this to be a wise thing to do, and to show gratefulness of attitude.

Genuine insights and answers regarding bible prophecy are rare things......imho we should be grateful when they come and not be so hung up on through whom they come. We can all test things against the Word ourselves, at least we have something to test.


A most excellent post Brett !

God Bless You

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Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God

T'was Grace that taught my heart to fear.
And Grace, my fears relieved.
How precious did that Grace appear
The hour I first believed.
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Re: The beinning of the 70th week

Postby WOODHENOT3 on Fri May 05, 2017 11:15 am

brett wrote:
WOODHENOT3 wrote:
I caution any of you to so quickly dismiss Steven Anderson, it will be your loss if you do imho. I'm telling you that I have learnt a tremendous amount from his Revelation series and preaching. The man is certainly not perfect, no man is, but he has done some great work for the Lord and whoever is willing to listen will learn a great deal. When we get to heaven - if any of you ask Jesus - "why was prophecy so hard to understand? I was never fully able to understand it".....I think Jesus would say to you - "the answers and help were available to you - but you rejected the help".


I don't follow man Brett and my focus is onto Jesus rather than the timing of Steven's rapture, . and I wouldn't get so caught up of Steven's views if I were you... What I hate about many preachers is that they think they are so right and others are so wrong...I would caution people to read the Bible and to apply it in God's way and not man's..


IMHO a bit of humility goes a long way when seeking answers. I think we should all be willing to listen to (and test) the teachings of a lot of different believers (men) because alone we are limited - if I did bible study on my own, in a bubble, I'd not get very far. It's wise to look to other fellow believers for instruction & help, especially when they have more knowledge & insight.....that's one of the main purposes of the body of Christ. Why do we come here to these forums?

No one EVER finds a perfect preacher, all men have flaws. Even if Moses or the Apostle Paul were alive today, people would still pick fault with their ministries and doctrines. I glean what I can.....when I can.....I consider this to be a wise thing to do, and to show gratefulness of attitude.

Genuine insights and answers regarding bible prophecy are rare things......imho we should be grateful when they come and not be so hung up on through whom they come. We can all test things against the Word ourselves, at least we have something to test.

Last thought : God obviously uses men, and God uses you WOODHENOT3, would you discredit yourself? Are you saying we should ignore all your posts & not follow anything you say? Because you are a man........?

.

You know Brett,
There are many preachers that are misleading the flocks to the "danger zone" with their assumptions and justifications of their own translation, they become so arrogant of their views, they hardly ever admit their wrongdoing.... what I like about Herb Peters when he preached back then, he always made room for his mistakes,,,, he always say, "I believe" or "as I see it".... many preachers are like, "I'm right and your wrong".... or they always compare themselves to other pastors and they manipulate the flocks into believing in them....I don't follow that ...

Now, No man is perfect and I agree with you, but let's not make excuses for those who falsely teach or refusing to change their translation of scriptures when the truth is revealed to them..
Now I listen to men when it comes to Bible discussions and so on... I just don't listen to those who I believe are misleading the flocks.. I find Steven to be misleading and I would not promote him, his doctrine I believe come from man... if his theory is all wrong, many could fall with him assuming that their escape would be sooner....I call it the "danger zone"....

A lot of doctrines are made by men... what I love about this board is that everyone challenges and teaches you with scriptures... I find reading the bible a lot easier than listening to many one man shows who thinks he knows everything and expects everyone to believe in him.

You misinterpreted what I was talking about focusing on God and not man, i didn't say, we should not listen to any men...

One other thing, I'm open to any adjustments I have to make to follow God's way and I use to think the 70th week was the 7 year timeline and now I see clearly the 70 weeks of Daniels is completed...3 1/2 years makes a lot of sense now...
some day you might agree that the 70 weeks has been completed and no gaps...

many blessings,
In Christ Always,
Woody
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Re: The beinning of the 70th week

Postby Mr Baldy on Fri May 05, 2017 4:18 pm

WOODHENOT3 wrote:There are many preachers that are misleading the flocks to the "danger zone" with their assumptions and justifications of their own translation, they become so arrogant of their views, they hardly ever admit their wrongdoing.


Hi Woody,

Please don't be either discouraged, or disheartened by taking a strong stance on what you believe to be True.
Because you are exactly right!

As you continue your walk with Christ and searching for Truth - you'll discover that you won't be able to change the minds of those who ALREADY have their minds made up. You will find it most challenging to have someone understand your point of view - even when HARD FACTS are provided to them. Please keep in mind that I am mentioning no one person in particular - but just a generalized statement as it applies to Truth.

Life is Individual. WE all have to discover our very own personal relationship with Christ - and they ALL are unique to our personalities. Only He knows how to best supply our needs, and gather us unto Him in the perfect knowledge and understanding.

Just keep in mind that when the Disciples came to Christ and asked Him questions relating to His Return and the End of the Age - the very FIRST thing He mentioned was to be careful that no man DECEIVES you.

So events like: His Coming; the Rapture; the Millennial Kingdom; the coming Antichrist - are all fun things to debate and/or discuss.....but at the END of the Day just remember that We are ALL Sisters and Brothers in Christ.

When He Appears..........we all will know.
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Re: The beinning of the 70th week

Postby brett on Fri May 05, 2017 6:21 pm

BTW MrBaldy - please see :

"No one knows the Day or Hour"? Are you absolutely sure?
viewtopic.php?f=18&t=73208&start=0&st=0&sk=t&sd=a

.
KJV ONLY !
The KJV is the only PURE translation. Avoid modern corruptions like the NIV, they have been altered to support the coming Anti-Christ.
"The words of the Lord are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Thou shalt keep them, O Lord, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever." Psalm 12:6-7
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Re: The beinning of the 70th week

Postby WOODHENOT3 on Sat May 06, 2017 7:11 am

Mr Baldy wrote:
WOODHENOT3 wrote:There are many preachers that are misleading the flocks to the "danger zone" with their assumptions and justifications of their own translation, they become so arrogant of their views, they hardly ever admit their wrongdoing.


Hi Woody,

Please don't be either discouraged, or disheartened by taking a strong stance on what you believe to be True.
Because you are exactly right!

As you continue your walk with Christ and searching for Truth - you'll discover that you won't be able to change the minds of those who ALREADY have their minds made up. You will find it most challenging to have someone understand your point of view - even when HARD FACTS are provided to them. Please keep in mind that I am mentioning no one person in particular - but just a generalized statement as it applies to Truth.

Life is Individual. WE all have to discover our very own personal relationship with Christ - and they ALL are unique to our personalities. Only He knows how to best supply our needs, and gather us unto Him in the perfect knowledge and understanding.

Just keep in mind that when the Disciples came to Christ and asked Him questions relating to His Return and the End of the Age - the very FIRST thing He mentioned was to be careful that no man DECEIVES you.

So events like: His Coming; the Rapture; the Millennial Kingdom; the coming Antichrist - are all fun things to debate and/or discuss.....but at the END of the Day just remember that We are ALL Sisters and Brothers in Christ.

When He Appears..........we all will know.


We will all know, I agree!!
I believe when time draw near to the End, we will all come to understanding...
I don't have a strong stance on the end time views, I'm usually cautious, thanks for your concerns...
Many blessings as we continue the studies of prophecy....
In Christ Always,
Woody
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Re: The beinning of the 70th week

Postby brett on Sat May 06, 2017 5:19 pm

Just want to say one thing to everyone here. I am willing to rethink matters at any time if I learn something new in scripture that conflicts with a presently held view I may have. That is always the case, always has been the case and always will be the case. I don't care about being wrong (from an ego perspective - I do care if it means I have lead others in the wrong direction though)...... because ultimately I want the correct understanding of the End Times for myself and for everyone ...... I'd hate to get into the "Last Days" events with some big error in my expectation of what's coming. Finding myself at that time confused while heavy persecution is unfolding.

So I do appreciate the different views others hold in here...... I re-calculate my view on a regular basis as I learn more. So while I debate against you guys and present my position as a more correct position (in my own mind) - that doesn't necessarily mean I'm right - its just the view I currently see as the most true, most likely to be correct in my eyes.

I recall about 10 years ago I held the view 2013 was going to be the rough starting time of Daniels 70th week. I look back now and realise I was completely off back then. So despite strongly held views now, things will likely change somewhat as more is learnt and as we get closer. I think that will be the case for all of us.

Hope that makes sense.

.
KJV ONLY !
The KJV is the only PURE translation. Avoid modern corruptions like the NIV, they have been altered to support the coming Anti-Christ.
"The words of the Lord are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Thou shalt keep them, O Lord, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever." Psalm 12:6-7
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Re: The beinning of the 70th week

Postby WOODHENOT3 on Sat May 06, 2017 9:10 pm

Amen Brett,
We are all students, we all should be encouraging each other and we are all on the same team together....
I pray very often for my friends and I "not to be deceived".... we all learn from our mistakes as well...
Many blessings, may God bless all of us with strength, knowledge and wisdom...
May Jesus be in the center of our lives!!
Glory be to God!!
In Christ Always,
Woody
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Re: The beinning of the 70th week

Postby Douggg on Sun May 07, 2017 6:36 pm

1whowaits wrote:I would posit the question on whether the 70th week could begin, and we not know it.


Do you mean by "we" us Christians? If so, the answer is no, we will know it. Non-Christians at the time will not know it.

Moses first to confirm the Mt. Sinai covenant for 7 years (Deuteronomy 31:9-13) .
The person who becomes the Antichrist confirms the Mt. Sinai covenant for the 7 years (per the law of Moses) .
Revelation the end times chapters, 6-19, are structured on the 7 years or the second half of the 7 years.

The 7 years will begin when the person makes a big speech on the temple mount, stating that God gave the land of Israel to the children of Israel forever. It will be from the temple mount, and will only be possible following Gog/Magog.
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Re: The beinning of the 70th week

Postby 1whowaits on Sun May 07, 2017 7:47 pm

Doug, i would agree that the covenant that is confirmed or strengthened for 7 years is the Old Covenant. But could the confirming of the covenant for 1 seven be a reference to the covenant itself, the one that was to be reread every 7 years, rather than the reading of the covenant being the first event of the 70th week?

My thought would be that the Old Covenant could be confirmed after an event like Gog-Magog, in preparation for the rebuilding of the temple. As even a small part of a year can be counted as a year, the covenant could be confirmed at any time during the first year and still fall within the 70th 'seven'. Other events, such as the destruction of Damascus and Gog-Magog could occur prior to the confirming and be part of the 70th week, wars, etc.

Therefore, it is possible that the week could begin without Christians knowing it, the beginning of the 70th seven would depend on God's timetable and not a single event like the covenant being confirmed. Destruction could come suddenly...
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Re: The beinning of the 70th week

Postby Douggg on Mon May 08, 2017 12:59 am

1whowaits wrote:Doug, i would agree that the covenant that is confirmed or strengthened for 7 years is the Old Covenant. But could the confirming of the covenant for 1 seven be a reference to the covenant itself, the one that was to be reread every 7 years, rather than the reading of the covenant being the first event of the 70th week?

My thought would be that the Old Covenant could be confirmed after an event like Gog-Magog, in preparation for the rebuilding of the temple. As even a small part of a year can be counted as a year, the covenant could be confirmed at any time during the first year and still fall within the 70th 'seven'. Other events, such as the destruction of Damascus and Gog-Magog could occur prior to the confirming and be part of the 70th week, wars, etc.

Therefore, it is possible that the week could begin without Christians knowing it, the beginning of the 70th seven would depend on God's timetable and not a single event like the covenant being confirmed. Destruction could come suddenly...
I may not be understanding you correctly. When the covenant will be confirmed, imo, has to be following Gog/Magog. Too many other given timeframes given within the seven years, for the beginning of the 70th week to be a "stealth" beginning. The 42 months, the 1260 days, the 1335 days, the 1290 days.

The "he" violates the covenant in the middle part of the 7 years in Daniel 9:27. And Revelation 6, the rider on the white horse is given a crown - which imo is the person crowned the King of Israel, which that act is what makes him the Antichrist - to begin all of what happens in the end times verses from Revelation 6 to 19.

The sudden destruction comes to them who are unaware of the times - not Christians. What puts them in that precarious situation will be that they will think they have entered the messianic age following Gog/Magog - with the person being their thought to be messiah, which the role of the messiah in Judaism is to be the promised great King of Israel.

In Judaism, also, they interpret the "new" covenant in Jeremiah 31 - not as new - but as "renewal" of the Mt. Sinai covenant. So confirming of the covenant by the Antichrist on the temple mount will be a major fulfillment of what they expect.

One of the questions in my mind is not whether the person confirms the Mt. Sinai covenant as the Jews are expecting, but will he do it on the feast of tabernacles (which 7 years later could time Jesus's return somewhere around the Day of Atonement fall feast). It may be that the Antichrist confirms the covenant on some other day - because it says about the little horn (his role before becoming the Antichrist) seeks to change the times and seasons in Daniel 7.

There are just two events (excluding the rapture because we don't know for certain whether it will be pre-70th week or after the 70th week begins) ahead of the confirming of the covenant.

(1) the formation of the ten king leader form of government (which imo is forthcoming for the EU) kingdom. In which case, we will be able to identify the little horn person at that time (2) following shortly thereafter by the Gog/Magog event. Which has the 7 years, in Ezekiel 39, between the two feasts on the bodies, between. The 7 years being the 7 years beginning with the rider on the white horse in Revelation 6 and ending with Jesus's return.

In the past year or so, it became apparent to me that the way Jesus presented Revelation, contained in the end times chapters, 6-19, is on the 7 years (and second half of the seven years). This cannot be overstated.

All of Revelation is about His Coming.

The end times chapters, 6-19, are structured on the seven years and the second half of the seven years.

Chapters 1-3 Jesus tells the churches how to behave until he comes.

Chapters 4-5 John is caught up to heaven to be shown the end times

Chapter 6 is an overview of the 70th week of Daniel 9, start to finish.

Chapters 7-9 is what takes place during the second half of the 70th week.

Chapters 10-11 is the 70th week according to the little book John eats

Chapter 12 is the 70th week relevant to Israel.

Chapters 13-14 is the second half of the 70th week, the great tribulation.

Chapters 15-16 is the second half of the 70th week, God's vials of wrath.

Chapters 17-18 is about Mystery Babylon, the beast, the seven kings and ten kings

Chapter 19 is the glorious return of Jesus to complete the 70th week.

Chapter 20 is the 1000 year rule of Jesus upon this earth, and the final curtain for Satan.

Chapters 21-22 is about eternity, our place in the new heaven and new earth
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Re: The beinning of the 70th week

Postby Mr Baldy on Mon May 08, 2017 4:48 am

Douggg wrote:The 7 years will begin when the person makes a big speech on the temple mount, stating that God gave the land of Israel to the children of Israel forever. It will be from the temple mount, and will only be possible following Gog/Magog.
Douggg wrote:In the past year or so, it became apparent to me that the way Jesus presented Revelation, contained in the end times chapters, 6-19, is on the 7 years (and second half of the seven years). This cannot be overstated.
:humm:

Prove it!
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Re: The beinning of the 70th week

Postby Douggg on Mon May 08, 2017 6:27 am

Mr Baldy wrote:
Douggg wrote:The 7 years will begin when the person makes a big speech on the temple mount, stating that God gave the land of Israel to the children of Israel forever. It will be from the temple mount, and will only be possible following Gog/Magog.
Douggg wrote:In the past year or so, it became apparent to me that the way Jesus presented Revelation, contained in the end times chapters, 6-19, is on the 7 years (and second half of the seven years). This cannot be overstated.
:humm:

Prove it!

The only covenant spoken of in Daniel 9 is the Mt. Sinai covenant. The "for seven years" are in Deuteronomy 31:9-13.

One of the requirements Moses made in addition to the 7 year cycle, that the confirmation that God gave them the land as theirs forever be done from the place of God's choosing. I have spoken to several authoritative on Judaism Jews about what is the place of God's choosing. They told me the temple mount. Which is also the reason, they haven't done it for at least two thousand years.

I listed the chapter groupings in blue of how those are based on either the 7 years or the second half of the 7 years. The content itself reveals that the material in the chapters have been presented that way. Chapter 13, for example, is about the second half of the 7 years because it has a 42 month timeframe established in the chapter, and deals with the great tribulation based upon the AoD image of the beast the false prophet has made. Chapter 14 is a continuation of what happens during the second half of the 7 years. So chapters 13-14 are a group.

When it gets to Chapter 15-16, those are about what happens in the second half of the 7 years, the vials of wrath - because the beast claims to be God, and the persecution on them not worshiping the image.
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Re: The beinning of the 70th week

Postby Douggg on Mon May 08, 2017 6:50 am

Chapter 12, the first five verses are historic, to identify the woman in the rest of the chapter as Israel. There are 1260 days before the war in heaven (the second heaven, forthcoming) and Satan cast down; with the time, times, half times coming after the war in heaven.

So, therefore, 1260 days the first half of the seven years, and the time, times, half times the second half of the seven years. So that chapter 12 is about the 7 years (total) relevant to Israel (the woman).

Chapter 10, John is told to eat the little book and prophesy. Which is followed in Chapter 11 of there being 42 months coinciding with the 42 months in Revelation 13, which are the second half of the 7 years as I have already shown. And the 1260 days which are the first half of the 7 years from the Chapter 12 explanation above. The total is the 7 years. 1260 days plus the 42 months. So Chapter 10-11, as a group, covers the 7 years.

Chapter 7 starts off with the sealing of the 144,000 before any hurt is done to the earth. Then the vision of them in heaven being there because of the great tribulation - which I have established is Revelation 13 when AoD is setup to be worshiped in the second half of the seven years.

Chapter 8 and 9 actually gets into the trumpet judgments which does hurt to the earth. And ends with the movement of the 200,000, 000 strong army near the end of the 7 years. So Chapters 7-9, as a group, are about the second half of the 7 years.

Chapter 6 ends with the sign of the son of man in heaven - Jesus appearing to the entire world, about to execute judgment on the wicked for martyring the saints. When Jesus first removes the seals, it reveals the start of the end times with the rider on the white horse - which brings us full circle to the person being crowned the King of Israel, who confirms the covenant for 7 years in Daniel 9:27. So chapter 6 is an overview of the 7 years - start to finish.

Chapters 6-19 are about the end times. And Revelation as a whole is about Jesus's Coming.
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Re: The beinning of the 70th week

Postby Mr Baldy on Mon May 08, 2017 6:57 am

brett wrote:BTW MrBaldy - please see :

"No one knows the Day or Hour"? Are you absolutely sure?
viewtopic.php?f=18&t=73208&start=0&st=0&sk=t&sd=a

.


I'll be glad to take a look at it. :mrgreen:
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Re: The beinning of the 70th week

Postby shorttribber on Mon May 08, 2017 6:57 am

Douggg wrote:Chapters 7-9 is what takes place during the second half of the 70th week.
Chapters 10-11 is the 70th week according to the little book John eats

hi Douggg,
Blessings brother :grin: I'm spending more time away from the forum to dedicate more time to family and reading. Looks like you had been away from commenting on this site for a while also.

Any way, just wanted to ask if there was a mistyping of your sentence above. Are you actually saying that Rev. chapters 7-9 are speaking of the SECOND HALF of the 70th week? If that is what you're saying, I agree.

The 10-11 comment is unclear as to what you mean, and the time frame that you are referring to. Could you clarify that please.
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Find seven years of tribulation plainly stated in the Bible.
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Re: The beinning of the 70th week

Postby Douggg on Mon May 08, 2017 7:02 am

Chapters 17 and 18 are end times, but also contain historic information. So I didn't label those two chapters as being specifically the 7 years or second half of the 7 years.

Instead, I labeled those as being "about"... Mystery Babylon, the beast, the seven kings and ten kings

Chapter 19 concludes the 7 years, with Jesus's Glorious Return. Which we have in Ezekiel 39:17-20, the judgement he executes on the the heathen who have gathered at Armageddon to try and make war on him.

Here it is in Ezekiel 39, that Jesus has returned to reign and rule the earth with a rod of iron...

21 And I will set my glory among the heathen, and all the heathen shall see my judgment that I have executed, and my hand that I have laid upon them.
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Re: The beinning of the 70th week

Postby shorttribber on Mon May 08, 2017 7:05 am

shorttribber wrote:
Douggg wrote:Chapters 7-9 is what takes place during the second half of the 70th week.
Chapters 10-11 is the 70th week according to the little book John eats

hi Douggg,
Blessings brother :grin: I'm spending more time away from the forum to dedicate more time to family and reading. Looks like you had been away from commenting on this site for a while also.

Any way, just wanted to ask if there was a mistyping of your sentence above. Are you actually saying that Rev. chapters 7-9 are speaking of the SECOND HALF of the 70th week? If that is what you're saying, I agree.

The 10-11 comment is unclear as to what you mean, and the time frame that you are referring to. Could you clarify that please.

looks like you answered my questions before I posted it...hehe
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Re: The beinning of the 70th week

Postby Douggg on Mon May 08, 2017 7:19 am

shorttribber wrote:
Douggg wrote:Chapters 7-9 is what takes place during the second half of the 70th week.
Chapters 10-11 is the 70th week according to the little book John eats

hi Douggg,
Blessings brother :grin: I'm spending more time away from the forum to dedicate more time to family and reading. Looks like you had been away from commenting on this site for a while also.

Any way, just wanted to ask if there was a mistyping of your sentence above. Are you actually saying that Rev. chapters 7-9 are speaking of the SECOND HALF of the 70th week? If that is what you're saying, I agree.

The 10-11 comment is unclear as to what you mean, and the time frame that you are referring to. Could you clarify that please.
Yes, chapters 7-9, as a group, covers the second half of the 7 years (70th week).

Regarding chapter 10-11, I may have typed my explanation while your were making your post, but here it is...

Chapter 10, John is told to eat the little book and prophesy. Which is followed in Chapter 11 of there being 42 months coinciding with the 42 months in Revelation 13, which are the second half of the 7 years as I have already shown. And the 1260 days which are the first half of the 7 years from the Chapter 12 explanation above. The total is the 7 years. 1260 days plus the 42 months. So Chapter 10-11, as a group, covers the 7 years.

In Chapter 10 the angel makes the declaration...
6 And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:

To me, "there should be time no longer" means the end times are to begin, which the mystery of God is to be finished. Which would begin when the rider on the white horse is given the crown, the person becoming the King of Israel, the Antichrist, and him confirming the Mt. Sinai covenant for 7 years - before going rogue in the middle of it.

So, from the angel, we get the beginning of the 7 years in that Chapter 10 as well as John being told to eat the little book. So, therefore, chapters 10-11, as a group, are about what happens in the 7 years.
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Re: The beinning of the 70th week

Postby Mr Baldy on Mon May 08, 2017 4:35 pm

shorttribber wrote:Any way, just wanted to ask if there was a mistyping of your sentence above. Are you actually saying that Rev. chapters 7-9 are speaking of the SECOND HALF of the 70th week? If that is what you're saying, I agree.


Hey Shorty,

I get what you are saying - as you believe that the 1st half of the 70th week has all ready been completed, but apparently Douggg didn't. Douggg wants to content that there is a future 7 week period, and I know you don't believe that, as you believe that there is a future 3.5 year period that completes the 70 week.

Well I happen to Disagree with you both. :mrgreen:

Now let's take a look at what Douggg wrote - which I believe is completely in error:

Douggg wrote:Chapter 12, the first five verses are historic, to identify the woman in the rest of the chapter as Israel. There are 1260 days before the war in heaven (the second heaven, forthcoming) and Satan cast down; with the time, times, half times coming after the war in heaven. So, therefore, 1260 days the first half of the seven years, and the time, times, half times the second half of the seven years. So that chapter 12 is about the 7 years (total) relevant to Israel (the woman).


Douggg, first of all in your aforementioned statement you have provided ABSOLUTELY nothing to prove that "there are 1,260 days before the war in heaven" and Satan cast down - absolutely NOTHING. Nothing to establish when this
so-called 7 week period begins whatsoever. Therefore you cannot establish that "chapter 12 is about the 7 years total relevant to Israel".

Douggg wrote:Chapter 10, John is told to eat the little book and prophesy. Which is followed in Chapter 11 of there being 42 months coinciding with the 42 months in Revelation 13, which are the second half of the 7 years as I have already shown. And the 1260 days which are the first half of the 7 years from the Chapter 12 explanation above. The total is the 7 years. 1260 days plus the 42 months. So Chapter 10-11, as a group, covers the 7 years.


Whew...........so much conjecture here. How about first establishing when the 7 week period began with SCRIPTURE? All you've listed consistently is a 3.5 year period - and THAT'S IT.

Prove WITH Scripture when the 70 week began.

In closing, Dougg, you or anyone else will NEVER find where Scripture clearly identifies a very FUTURE and final week or 7 year period identified prior to the Return of Christ - it just ain't there - not even in Daniel 9.
What we do see CONSISTENTLY in Scripture is a very future 3.5 year period - but many either seems to ignore this, or want to tie it into the 70 weeks, which have already been completed; beginning with the Ministry of Christ; His subsequent Crucifixion; and Resurrection. The 70 weeks, and the requirements that were determine
ALL pointed to Christ.

So much conjecture, and unsupported views; feelings; sophistry; and sensationalism tied into applying the correct exegetical "Biblical" hermeneutics to this very difficult passage of Scripture that it ain't even funny. :roll:
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Re: The beinning of the 70th week

Postby Douggg on Mon May 08, 2017 5:53 pm

Mr Baldy wrote:Now let's take a look at what Douggg wrote - which I believe is completely in error:

Douggg wrote:Chapter 12, the first five verses are historic, to identify the woman in the rest of the chapter as Israel. There are 1260 days before the war in heaven (the second heaven, forthcoming) and Satan cast down; with the time, times, half times coming after the war in heaven. So, therefore, 1260 days the first half of the seven years, and the time, times, half times the second half of the seven years. So that chapter 12 is about the 7 years (total) relevant to Israel (the woman).


Douggg, first of all in your aforementioned statement you have provided ABSOLUTELY nothing to prove that "there are 1,260 days before the war in heaven" and Satan cast down - absolutely NOTHING. Nothing to establish when this so-called 7 week period begins whatsoever. Therefore you cannot establish that "chapter 12 is about the 7 years total relevant to Israel".


Mr. Baldy, certainly you can choose whatever you wish, but the order in Revelation 12 verse by verse is first the 1260 days, then the war in heaven (the second heaven), then the time, times, half times.

So that is fundamental. Also, in Revelation 13, which is the second half of the 70th week, the crowns/no crowns on the heads and horns is reversed from Revelation 12 - so they cannot be starting at the same point.

Here's the breakdown:

Revelation 12 the 7 years

crowns on the 7 heads
- the person will have already become the little horn right before the 7 years begin, thus completing the prophesy of the seven kings in Revelation 17, signified by the 7 heads having crowns. The little horn person will be the one who becomes the Antichrist.

no crowns on the 10 horns - the person is not the beast as the 7 years begin, so the ten kings are not ruling with the beast (Revelation 17), and thus do not have their crowns.

Revelation 13
the second half of the 7 years

no crowns on the 7 heads
, one head mortally wounded but come back to life - the prophesy of the seven kings is over because the 7th king person will have been killed, UNLIKE IN Revelation 12.

crowns on the 10 horns
- the person brought back to life as the beast is ruling for the second half and the ten kings with him, thus have their crowns UNLIKE IN Revelation 12.

Revelation 12 - the seven years, relevant to Israel because the woman is at the start, middle, end of the Chapter..
Revelation 13-14 - the second half of the seven years, the great tribulation.
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Re: The beinning of the 70th week

Postby Mr Baldy on Tue May 09, 2017 8:36 am

Douggg wrote:Mr. Baldy, certainly you can choose whatever you wish, but the order in Revelation 12 verse by verse is first the 1260 days, then the war in heaven (the second heaven), then the time, times, half times. So that is fundamental. Also, in Revelation 13, which is the second half of the 70th week, the crowns/no crowns on the heads and horns is reversed from Revelation 12 - so they cannot be starting at the same point.


Douggg - here is the problem I have with what you are saying. AGAIN first of all, Revelation 12 provides no starting point to identify any part of a 7 year period - so therefore I have no idea where you are coming up with this "first 1,260 day" stuff.

Secondly, Revelation 12 identifies a single time period of 1,260 day period in which the woman is "nourished" in the wilderness. This is consistent with the 1,260 day period that is mentioned in Daniel, and Revelation 13 - in which the "rest of the woman's children are persecuted". It's the SAME time period.

Here is Revelation 12 that identifies that this is the SAME time period:

Revelation 12:13-17 - New American Standard Bible (NASB)

13) And when the dragon saw that he was thrown down to the earth, he persecuted the woman who gave birth to the male child. 14) But the two wings of the great eagle were given to the woman, so that she could fly into the wilderness to her place, where she *was nourished for a time and times and half a time, from the presence of the serpent. 15) And the serpent poured water like a river out of his mouth after the woman, so that he might cause her to be swept away with the flood. 16)But the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened its mouth and drank up the river which the dragon poured out of his mouth. 17) So the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went off to make war with the rest of her children, who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus.


The aforementioned passage of Scripture very clearly identifies the "remnant" that is saved and/or protected (nourished) for 3.5 year in the - and it also identifies the "REST OF HER CHILDREN" - meaning the Body of Christ that is persecuted for this same 3.5 year period.

There is no "First" half or "First 1,260 days" to be followed by a so-called "Last half" or "Last 1,260 days".

You see, you can't just arbitrarily throw things out there to make it fit a certain "theory".

As far as the rest of the things you have posted - well let's just say it's way too much sensationalism and sophistry listed there to even address. There is not a man on this planet that will receive a "fatal head wound" and come 'back to life" in the form of an Antichrist. :roll:

Perhaps you should consider that the symbolism identified in Revelation 13 is a Nation that was once dead, and comes back to life in the form of a "Revived Roman Empire."
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Re: The beinning of the 70th week

Postby shorttribber on Tue May 09, 2017 9:20 am

Mr. B.,
Revelation 12 Does very clearly mention TWO Separate Periods of three and half years.
The First mention is in verse 6 and the second is in verse 14.

it's very easy to explain why these two periods appear in the chapter as they do.(the first period is historic{70ad} and the second period is still yet future)

Here is the text.

Rev. 12
5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.


Adding this in also......it is interesting too that the first event mentions "Fled" as in on foot or maybe with horses, and the second event mentions "great wings" or by Flying (could be the use of helicopters or Airplanes).
That could be an example of one event as Historic and the Other as Future.
The Wisest men have changed their Counsels and Resolves upon second thoughts, much more upon experience, and approaching evils not at first discovered. Rev. Herbert Croft, 1675

Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counsellors there is safety.

Find seven years of tribulation plainly stated in the Bible.
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Re: The beinning of the 70th week

Postby Douggg on Tue May 09, 2017 9:41 am

Mr Baldy wrote:
Douggg wrote:Mr. Baldy, certainly you can choose whatever you wish, but the order in Revelation 12 verse by verse is first the 1260 days, then the war in heaven (the second heaven), then the time, times, half times. So that is fundamental. Also, in Revelation 13, which is the second half of the 70th week, the crowns/no crowns on the heads and horns is reversed from Revelation 12 - so they cannot be starting at the same point.


Douggg - here is the problem I have with what you are saying. AGAIN first of all, Revelation 12 provides no starting point to identify any part of a 7 year period - so therefore I have no idea where you are coming up with this "first 1,260 day" stuff.


verse 6, then verse 7, then verse 10, then verse 14.

The first 1260 days of the seven years, then the war in heaven (the second heaven, then Satan cast down, for the time, times, half times remaining in the seven years.

Secondly, Revelation 12 identifies a single time period of 1,260 day period in which the woman is "nourished" in the wilderness. This is consistent with the 1,260 day period that is mentioned in Daniel, and Revelation 13 - in which the "rest of the woman's children are persecuted". It's the SAME time period.

There is no 1260 days stated in Daniel. Nor Revelation 13.

In Daniel 7:25, Daniel 12:7 there is the time, times, half times corresponding to Revelation 12:14 the time, times, half times. Which is the second half of the seven years. The 42 months in Revelation 13:5 and Revelation 11:2 are also the second half of the seven years. Although the 42 months and the time, times, half times are not exact equilvalents of each other.
Here is Revelation 12 that identifies that this is the SAME time period:

Revelation 12:13-17 - New American Standard Bible (NASB)

13) And when the dragon saw that he was thrown down to the earth, he persecuted the woman who gave birth to the male child. 14) But the two wings of the great eagle were given to the woman, so that she could fly into the wilderness to her place, where she *was nourished for a time and times and half a time, from the presence of the serpent. 15) And the serpent poured water like a river out of his mouth after the woman, so that he might cause her to be swept away with the flood. 16)But the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened its mouth and drank up the river which the dragon poured out of his mouth. 17) So the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went off to make war with the rest of her children, who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus.


The aforementioned passage of Scripture very clearly identifies the "remnant" that is saved and/or protected (nourished) for 3.5 year in the - and it also identifies the "REST OF HER CHILDREN" - meaning the Body of Christ that is persecuted for this same 3.5 year period.


We are not in basic disagreement over the time, times, half times, being right before Jesus returns. It is the 1260 days that precedes that time, times, half times - which I am pointing out is the first half of the seven years - while you are saying it is not.

There is no "First" half or "First 1,260 days" to be followed by a so-called "Last half" or "Last 1,260 days".


I have never mentioned a last 1260 days because neither the 42 months, nor the time, times, half times are exactly equal to the 1260 days.

You see, you can't just arbitrarily throw things out there to make it fit a certain "theory".

As far as the rest of the things you have posted - well let's just say it's way too much sensationalism and sophistry listed there to even address. There is not a man on this planet that will receive a "fatal head wound" and come 'back to life" in the form of an Antichrist. :roll:

Perhaps you should consider that the symbolism identified in Revelation 13 is a Nation that was once dead, and comes back to life in the form of a "Revived Roman Empire."

I haven't used any sensationalism in my posts. What I have done is to show that Revelation 12 does not equate to Revelation 13 because of the crowns/no crowns on the heads and horns being reversed when the two chapters are compared.
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Re: The beinning of the 70th week

Postby Mr Baldy on Tue May 09, 2017 12:27 pm

shorttribber wrote:Mr. B.,Revelation 12 Does very clearly mention TWO Separate Periods of three and half years.The First mention is in verse 6 and the second is in verse 14.it's very easy to explain why these two periods appear in the chapter as they do.(the first period is historic{70ad} and the second period is still yet future)


Hi Shorty,

I disagree. This is talking about the same 3.5 year time period. The verbiage doesn't have to be exact to mean the same time period.

Are you suggesting that there are two 3.5 year times periods in which the Church flees to the "wilderness" and is "nourished" :humm:

shorttribber wrote:Adding this in also......it is interesting too that the first event mentions "Fled" as in on foot or maybe with horses, and the second event mentions "great wings" or by Flying (could be the use of helicopters or Airplanes).That could be an example of one event as Historic and the Other as Future.


What I find very interesting is that Douggg sees this as a "Future" 7 year period - and you see it as a "Future" 3.5 year period that is separated by an unknown "GAP" in time.

Respectfully - neither make sense to me, and I don't think either view can be supported with Scripture.
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Re: The beinning of the 70th week

Postby shorttribber on Tue May 09, 2017 12:34 pm

Mr Baldy wrote:I disagree. This is talking about the same 3.5 year time period. The verbiage doesn't have to be exact to mean the same time period.
well, I disagree...I think the verbiage, And the Placement of Each Separate Event are placed as such for good reason. I have already mentioned the reason.
Mr Baldy wrote:Are you suggesting that there are two 3.5 year times periods in which the Church flees to the "wilderness" and is "nourished"

Yes, the SEED of the Woman Flees on Two Separate Occasions, the first Was in 67-70 ad, and the Second time is still future.
Mr Baldy wrote:What I find very interesting is that Douggg sees this as a "Future" 7 year period - and you see it as a "Future" 3.5 year period that is separated by an unknown "GAP" in time.

Yes, Douggg does see it that way, and I see it differently.
The Wisest men have changed their Counsels and Resolves upon second thoughts, much more upon experience, and approaching evils not at first discovered. Rev. Herbert Croft, 1675

Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counsellors there is safety.

Find seven years of tribulation plainly stated in the Bible.
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