The beinning of the 70th week

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Re: The beinning of the 70th week

Postby shorttribber on Thu Apr 27, 2017 8:25 pm

oops just caught this...
brett wrote: The first 1260 days of verse 6 is what happened during Jesus lifetime on earth, the first coming.


How can that be brett....Christ ascends to God Before the Woman is Nourished for 1,260 days?
How then could that time ( 1,260 day Nourishing) occur during His Lifetime on earth, during his first advent?
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Re: The beinning of the 70th week

Postby brett on Thu Apr 27, 2017 8:27 pm

shorttribber wrote:Ok, I agree that it covers a long period of time.....that said....what time period is the first mention of the 1,260 referring to precisely in your opinion?


When Jesus was young and they fled to Egypt.

Matthew 2:13
And when they were departed, behold, the angel of the Lord appeareth to Joseph in a dream, saying, Arise, and take the young child and his mother, and flee into Egypt, and be thou there until I bring thee word: for Herod will seek the young child to destroy him.


shorttribber wrote:Originally you said that the Woman was Nourished in the first half of the 70th week...that could only refer to vs 6.


No....look at verse 14:

Rev 12:14
And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.


.
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Re: The beinning of the 70th week

Postby shorttribber on Thu Apr 27, 2017 8:34 pm

You are correct in the use of the specific word Nourished in vs 14...whereas vs 6 says that she is fed there.

Essentially it does seem to be the same idea though...but you are correct regarding the exact words, and I was wrong in that regard.


Although you should still explain how the first flight in the wilderness could occur AFTER the text says that Christ Already ascends to heaven.
The Wisest men have changed their Counsels and Resolves upon second thoughts, much more upon experience, and approaching evils not at first discovered. Rev. Herbert Croft, 1675

Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counsellors there is safety.

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Re: The beinning of the 70th week

Postby brett on Thu Apr 27, 2017 8:45 pm

shorttribber wrote:You are correct in the use of the specific word Nourished in vs 14...whereas vs 6 says that she is fed there.

Essentially it does seem to be the same idea though...but you are correct regarding the exact words, and I was wrong in that regard.


Although you should still explain how the first flight in the wilderness could occur AFTER the text says that Christ Already ascends to heaven.


Its a prophetic description of Jesus:

Rev 12:5
And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

I highlighted the "WAS" twice because both of these statements are prophetic in this verses time context - neither have happened yet in the chronology of this VERSE. They are simply key descriptors of Jesus - something that tells us who is being talked about.....neither descriptions fit in chronologically......they are just descriptions of who Jesus is and what will happen to Him - to tell us (confirm) who is being talked about imho.

Its not an easy verse though I admit.

.
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Re: The beinning of the 70th week

Postby shorttribber on Thu Apr 27, 2017 9:00 pm

brett wrote:
shorttribber wrote:You are correct in the use of the specific word Nourished in vs 14...whereas vs 6 says that she is fed there.Essentially it does seem to be the same idea though...but you are correct regarding the exact words, and I was wrong in that regard.Although you should still explain how the first flight in the wilderness could occur AFTER the text says that Christ Already ascends to heaven.
Its a prophetic description of Jesus: Rev 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.I highlighted the "WAS" twice because both of these statements are prophetic in this verses time context - neither have happened yet in the chronology of this VERSE. They are simply key descriptors of Jesus - something that tells us who is being talked about.....neither descriptions fit in chronologically......they are just descriptions of Jesus imho..


The entire Chapter is very chronological, even if it covers a great span of time....to say otherwise does not seem at all reasonable brett.

The difference in the use of the two instances of the word "Was" is this. In the first case the text says "Who WAS TO". and in the second example the text Plainly Says "He WAS Caught Up"

The distinction between the two are clear..."was to" and "was".
"Was To" allows something "TO" occur in a Later sense, while the word "Was" by itself is a Past Tense use....and Occurred Then...not in a Future Sense.
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Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counsellors there is safety.

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Re: The beinning of the 70th week

Postby brett on Thu Apr 27, 2017 9:05 pm

shorttribber wrote:The entire Chapter is very chronological, even if it covers a great span of time....to say otherwise is not seem at all reasonable brett.

The difference in the use of the two instances of the word "Was" is this. In the first case the text says "Who WAS TO". and in the second example the text Plainly Says "He WAS Caught Up"

The distinction between the two are clear..."was to" and "was".
"Was To" allows something "TO" occur in a Later sense, while the word "Was" by itself is a Past Tense use....and Occurred Then...not in a Future Sense.



Is a description of someone chronological? Can't a verse describe Jesus by notable attributes? Let's say we try to identify someone this way..........."you know that guy who climbed mount Everest twice and won the Nobel Peace prize".........who cares when either of these events occurred chronologically ..... it would simply be helping to identify who is being talked about - by their notable achievements - by the big things they did, or that happened to them.....because the word JESUS is not used here, yet we all know from the descriptions given that it must be talking about Jesus......

.
Last edited by brett on Thu Apr 27, 2017 9:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The beinning of the 70th week

Postby shorttribber on Thu Apr 27, 2017 9:08 pm

brett wrote:
shorttribber wrote:The entire Chapter is very chronological, even if it covers a great span of time....to say otherwise is not seem at all reasonable brett.

The difference in the use of the two instances of the word "Was" is this. In the first case the text says "Who WAS TO". and in the second example the text Plainly Says "He WAS Caught Up"

The distinction between the two are clear..."was to" and "was".
"Was To" allows something "TO" occur in a Later sense, while the word "Was" by itself is a Past Tense use....and Occurred Then...not in a Future Sense.



Is a description of someone chronological? Can't a verse describe Jesus by notable attributes? Let's say we try to identify someone this way..........."you know that guy who climbed mount Everest twice and won the Nobel Peace prize".........who cares when either of these events occurred chronologically ..... it would simply be explaining who is being talked about by their notable achievements - by the big things they did, or that happened to them.

.



Ok, Mark s ...where are you when we need your command of grammar? :mrgreen:


Not that your grammar is in question brett...just regarding what I said regarding the tenses...just so you know ....not referring to your sentence forms.
The Wisest men have changed their Counsels and Resolves upon second thoughts, much more upon experience, and approaching evils not at first discovered. Rev. Herbert Croft, 1675

Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counsellors there is safety.

Find seven years of tribulation plainly stated in the Bible.
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Re: The beinning of the 70th week

Postby brett on Thu Apr 27, 2017 9:17 pm

If you consider that the word "JESUS" is never used in Rev 12 and then realise that we STILL know its Jesus because of the descriptions given.......then you should SEE that its only through the "descriptions" supplied that we can identify who is being talked about ---> Jesus.............so my point is - this chapter uses this technique of "descriptions" to identify Jesus rather than just using plain language.

Wouldn't it be so much nicer if it just said "Jesus".......I wonder why it doesn't.....

His "ascension straight to God's throne" is something that describes the significance of who Jesus is.

For example...." you know that guy who ascended straight to God's throne"......yeah that guy......
Last edited by brett on Thu Apr 27, 2017 9:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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The KJV is the only PURE translation. Avoid modern corruptions like the NIV, they have been altered to support the coming Anti-Christ.
"The words of the Lord are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Thou shalt keep them, O Lord, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever." Psalm 12:6-7
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Re: The beinning of the 70th week

Postby shorttribber on Thu Apr 27, 2017 9:21 pm

brett wrote:If you consider that the word "JESUS" is never used in Rev 12 and then realise that we STILL know its Jesus because of the descriptions given.......then you should SEE that its only because of the descriptions supplied that we can identify who is bein talked about - Jesus.............so my point is that this chapter uses this technique of "descriptions" to identify Jesus rather than just using plain language.

Wouldn't it be so much nicer if it just said "Jesus".......I wonder why it doesn't.....

It doesn't because of the Focus of the text......the Focus is the SEED of the Woman, and the Victory obtained by Her SEED.
The Wisest men have changed their Counsels and Resolves upon second thoughts, much more upon experience, and approaching evils not at first discovered. Rev. Herbert Croft, 1675

Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counsellors there is safety.

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Re: The beinning of the 70th week

Postby brett on Thu Apr 27, 2017 9:26 pm

.
Yes but the entire chapter uses descriptions to identify people - it doesn't give direct names to identify people.....

Anyway I do agree the verse could be read another way. I have read it the same way you do ST in the past. Its a difficult verse................the whole chapter is difficult imho..............


Also in case you missed my explanation earlier:

His "ascension straight to God's throne" is something that describes His deity.

For example...." you know that guy who ascended straight to God's throne"......yeah that man who floated up into the sky and went straight to God's throne.........

I think that verse is just describing something that happened in Jesus life........its not about the chronology, just that it happened.....but who knows....? I could be wrong...... I don't know ST..... believe what you think is right. I'm searching for the answers also and I'm not bothered by the issue of this verse too much...... If I come across something I am not 100% about I look at it for a while and then put it aside and keep looking at other things....... hopefully I will be 100% about this verse later down the track as other things come to light .......

Time to move on for me...

.
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The KJV is the only PURE translation. Avoid modern corruptions like the NIV, they have been altered to support the coming Anti-Christ.
"The words of the Lord are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Thou shalt keep them, O Lord, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever." Psalm 12:6-7
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Re: The beinning of the 70th week

Postby brett on Fri Apr 28, 2017 5:10 am

.
Ok I have asked God for help on this.........because I need help. To be totally honest with you I wasn't that pleased to be questioned by you earlier today because I didn't have the mental energy to give you a proper response. It was like someone suddenly throwing an assignment in my lap and I groaned over the effort required....... So I blundered through the response and I now think I got it wrong.

So here's the best answer I can give you now after some more rest & reflection :

I now believe both verses 6 & 14 are talking about the same thing. I also agree that verse 5 is chronological, as you believe, so that means I believe there is a huge time GAP between verses 5 & 6. I believe we are still in that GAP now and that verse 6 is talking about the 1st half of Daniels 70th week - which I believe is still in the future.

So I no longer believe verse 6 is talking about their flight to Egypt when Christ was a child......although its still a possible theory.....but I'm going to put that on the back shelf now.

Now ST I do not know why verse 6 is placed where it is.........but please note the only thing it says the woman actually does in this verse is to flee........it doesn't actually say 3.5 years of time passes........ I mean to me it seems reasonable that verses 6-14 are all talking about the very same moment of time. All this is happening at the same time.

  • The woman flees
  • The angels fight and the devil is cast down
  • And the comments about heaven being better off with satan cast down, but woe to the earth & sea.

All this could very reasonably be happening at the same moment. The woman flees, satan is cast down, 3.5 years then transpire. There's nothing in the language of these verses that mandates the woman's fleeing of verse 6 ends prior to the dragon being cast out of heaven. Or more importantly there is nothing in the language that mandates 3.5 actual years transpire in verse 6 prior to the dragon being cast out, its just telling us advanced detail of what happens in verse 14. :dunno:




.
Also as a side note to you ST:
Upon reflection I greatly appreciate your attention to detail ST, I remember this from previous discussions.......your questions really hit the mark well and forced me to give greater effort to understanding matters - it hurts at first but its worth it in the long run. :grin: .

But I am only able to say this after much prayer, petition and rest. Seems Iike I need God so much more lately to just get through the day.

.
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The KJV is the only PURE translation. Avoid modern corruptions like the NIV, they have been altered to support the coming Anti-Christ.
"The words of the Lord are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Thou shalt keep them, O Lord, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever." Psalm 12:6-7
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Re: The beinning of the 70th week

Postby Ready1 on Fri Apr 28, 2017 8:46 am

Ready1 to Mr Baldy wrote:I get it that you believe that the seventy weeks are over. When do you believe that the 70th week started?


Did I miss your answer?
Just observing.

E.
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Re: The beinning of the 70th week

Postby Exit40 on Fri Apr 28, 2017 10:23 am

OK, I'll dive in one more time as to the beginning of the 70th week. I believe the 7 and 62 weeks ends here ...

Dan 9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be...

... and the time of 'unto Messiah the Prince' is prophesied here also...

Isa 61:1 ¶ The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;

so therefore I believe the time of 'unto Messiah the Prince' is fulfilled here...

Jhn 1:32 ¶ And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him.
Jhn 1:33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.
Jhn 1:34 And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.


The passages in John I believe mark the beginning of the 70th week. This is the anointing spoken of in Isaiah 61. Jesus confirmed this fulfillment Himself when He read from the book of Isaiah 61, the part of it that was fulfilled 'at that time' which marked the beginning of His Ministry, having been anointed to do just that at His baptism/anointing.

Luk 4:20 And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.
Luk 4:21 And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.


Working through this difficult Prophecy of Daniel 9 that covers so much we discover this is Jesus that causes the sacrifice and oblation to cease...

Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease...

... by His crucifixion 3.5 years after the beginning of the 70th week, perfectly in 'the midst', or middle of the week. Leaving 3.5 years yet to be accomplished. Call this a gap or whatever you will, the time period until the beginning of the second half of the week at the AoD allows for the punishment of the Jews for their continual corruption of the Holy City and Temple and rejecting the Messiah, the cause of the desolation, and for the time of the fullness of the Gentiles to come into the Church. This is about as simple as I can maker it, confirmed by the Scriptures, I believe.

The 70th week begins precisely on time, at Jesus' anointing/baptism.

God Bless

David
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And Grace, my fears relieved.
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Re: The beinning of the 70th week

Postby shorttribber on Fri Apr 28, 2017 12:15 pm

:a3: David
The Wisest men have changed their Counsels and Resolves upon second thoughts, much more upon experience, and approaching evils not at first discovered. Rev. Herbert Croft, 1675

Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counsellors there is safety.

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Re: The beinning of the 70th week

Postby Mr Baldy on Fri Apr 28, 2017 1:13 pm

shorttribber wrote:
Mr Baldy wrote:ALL requirements were met relating to the 70 weeks that were determined


How was the following requirement met Mr. B ?
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression,


Shorty, if you believe in a literal Millennial Kingdom, then even death, sin, and rebellion will still occur there AFTER Christ has Returned - and as He is Ruling with Rod & Iron.

So this verse is not referring to "finish the transgression" as a FINAL End of sin - but again to Point to Christ.


Ready1 wrote:I get it that you believe that the seventy weeks are over. When do you believe that the 70th week started?


After the 69th week ended. :mrgreen:
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Re: The beinning of the 70th week

Postby shorttribber on Fri Apr 28, 2017 1:37 pm

Mr Baldy wrote:shorttribber wrote:Mr Baldy wrote:ALL requirements were met relating to the 70 weeks that were determinedHow was the following requirement met Mr. B ?
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression,
Mr B wrote: Shorty, if you believe in a literal Millennial Kingdom, then even death, sin, and rebellion will still occur there AFTER Christ has Returned - and as He is Ruling with Rod & Iron.So this verse is not referring to "finish the transgression" as a FINAL End of sin - but again to Point to Christ.


The reason I ask is because it seems to me that the answer is partly contained in the following text.....
Daniel 8
13 Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?
The Wisest men have changed their Counsels and Resolves upon second thoughts, much more upon experience, and approaching evils not at first discovered. Rev. Herbert Croft, 1675

Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counsellors there is safety.

Find seven years of tribulation plainly stated in the Bible.
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Re: The beinning of the 70th week

Postby Ready1 on Fri Apr 28, 2017 2:54 pm

Mr Baldy wrote:
Ready1 wrote:I get it that you believe that the seventy weeks are over. When do you believe that the 70th week started?



After the 69th week ended. :mrgreen:


Exit40, you would say that Jesus baptism would be the start of the 70th week? Mr Baldy are you in agreement with Exit40 or do you see it differently?
Just observing.

E.
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Re: The beinning of the 70th week

Postby brett on Fri Apr 28, 2017 4:07 pm

Exit40 wrote:OK, I'll dive in one more time as to the beginning of the 70th week. I believe the 7 and 62 weeks ends here ...

Dan 9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be...

... and the time of 'unto Messiah the Prince' is prophesied here also...

Isa 61:1 ¶ The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;

so therefore I believe the time of 'unto Messiah the Prince' is fulfilled here...

Jhn 1:32 ¶ And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him.
Jhn 1:33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.
Jhn 1:34 And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.


The passages in John I believe mark the beginning of the 70th week. This is the anointing spoken of in Isaiah 61. Jesus confirmed this fulfillment Himself when He read from the book of Isaiah 61, the part of it that was fulfilled 'at that time' which marked the beginning of His Ministry, having been anointed to do just that at His baptism/anointing.

Luk 4:20 And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.
Luk 4:21 And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.


Working through this difficult Prophecy of Daniel 9 that covers so much we discover this is Jesus that causes the sacrifice and oblation to cease...

Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease...

... by His crucifixion 3.5 years after the beginning of the 70th week, perfectly in 'the midst', or middle of the week. Leaving 3.5 years yet to be accomplished. Call this a gap or whatever you will, the time period until the beginning of the second half of the week at the AoD allows for the punishment of the Jews for their continual corruption of the Holy City and Temple and rejecting the Messiah, the cause of the desolation, and for the time of the fullness of the Gentiles to come into the Church. This is about as simple as I can maker it, confirmed by the Scriptures, I believe.

The 70th week begins precisely on time, at Jesus' anointing/baptism.

God Bless

David


I welcome your input and involvement David but I still have serious reservations about this viewpoint.........I'm still resisting it because I do not believe it can be correct when considering other scripture......... I will be honest and say that I do see something significant about Jesus ministry being 3.5 years ..... but what that significance is I don't know??? HOWEVER this view point requires the conversion of days to years in many parts of Daniel, which is wrong imho and it requires the Seals of Revelation to be spread over many centuries, another thing I consider a significant error. There are obviously going to be other things I consider as error too - since this topic covers so much scripture. So I am still opposed to this viewpoint.

Gee this is a big point of contention ..... and boy does it matter .... because we have 2 very different future timelines with these differing view points.

If we follow your and ST viewpoint then I assume we have the AOD event as the next big event to look for? Is that correct?

If we follow my viewpoint then the next big thing coming is WW3 (Seals 1,2,3,4) not the AOD.

This is why I am not willing to stop fighting this matter, because WW3 is a big thing to miss seeing and not prepare for. I believe it very important to be ready for Seals 1,2,3 & 4 - which I believe are still future events and represent the first half of Daniels 70th week.

I'm tired, busy and don't have that much time to devote to this matter, nor really prove my position well......but I will try my best to put up a fight - I think its important. So this matter is NOT settled yet. I still disagree with this idea that the first half of Daniels 70th week has already happened......because I believe the 1st half of Daniels 70th week is WW3 - and its what's coming next and is a big deal ............... I pray I have time to research the matter and get something more definitive on paper for the benefit of everyone here. My whole push back on this is about WW3 - its going to affect all of us greatly and straight after WW3 will be the AOD and the Mark of the Beast. Once WW3 starts, there will be no more time to prepare, from that time onwards the persecution and difficulties will be great..... people need to get this into their heads now and be wise and take actions to avoid the harder times that will suddenly befall on everyone else........

Look at the news headlines each day, we are hearing of Wars and Rumors of wars on a regular basis. Its very easy to see WW3 starting one way or the other. On the list of things coming soon are:

Matthew 24:7
For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.


Imho this is the Seals of Revelation - this is WW3 - this precedes the AOD. I pray someone is listening...

.
Last edited by brett on Fri Apr 28, 2017 5:08 pm, edited 9 times in total.
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"The words of the Lord are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Thou shalt keep them, O Lord, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever." Psalm 12:6-7
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Re: The beinning of the 70th week

Postby Mr Baldy on Fri Apr 28, 2017 4:25 pm

Ready1 wrote:
Mr Baldy wrote:
Ready1 wrote:I get it that you believe that the seventy weeks are over. When do you believe that the 70th week started?



After the 69th week ended. :mrgreen:


Exit40, you would say that Jesus baptism would be the start of the 70th week? Mr Baldy are you in agreement with Exit40 or do you see it differently?


Ready1,

David, Shortribber, and I are not very far away in what we believe - in that we all believe that Scripture supports a future 3.5 year "Prophetic" period of time prior to the Return of Christ . They believe that the Final 3.5 years conclude the 70th week - whereas I do not. I believe that the 70th week has been completed - and the Future 3.5 year period is it's own entity, only to be recognized by the AOD mentioned in Daniel 9:27 (b).

Now, to answer your question........No, (IMHO) I do not believe that the 70th week began at Jesus' Baptism - but when He mentioned this:

Luke 4:21 - New American Standard Bible (NASB)

And He began to say to them, Today this Scripture has been fulfilled in your hearing.”


This is When Jesus Began His Ministry.
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Re: The beinning of the 70th week

Postby Mr Baldy on Fri Apr 28, 2017 4:35 pm

shorttribber wrote:The reason I ask is because it seems to me that the answer is partly contained in the following text.....Daniel 813 Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?


Shorty,

We have to be very careful with the Prophecies set forth in the Book of Daniel.

I am of the opinion, and I wholeheartedly believe that this prophecy was fulfilled by none other than:
Antiochus Epiphanes.

This relates to the 2,300 days - but this would be for another time and a different thread. However, it has been debated before.
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Re: The beinning of the 70th week

Postby shorttribber on Fri Apr 28, 2017 8:22 pm

Mr Baldy wrote:
shorttribber wrote:The reason I ask is because it seems to me that the answer is partly contained in the following text.....Daniel 813 Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?


Shorty,

We have to be very careful with the Prophecies set forth in the Book of Daniel.

I am of the opinion, and I wholeheartedly believe that this prophecy was fulfilled by none other than:
Antiochus Epiphanes.

This relates to the 2,300 days - but this would be for another time and a different thread. However, it has been debated before.


I think you're right on that part Mr. B., Antiochus is probably the best answer to those days. That really makes the 2,300 mentioned in Daniel 8 much more reasonable also when we compare that number with other days pertaining to the final 3.5.

A type and shadow of future antichrist is likely there in the text only.
The Wisest men have changed their Counsels and Resolves upon second thoughts, much more upon experience, and approaching evils not at first discovered. Rev. Herbert Croft, 1675

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Re: The beinning of the 70th week

Postby brett on Fri Apr 28, 2017 9:11 pm

ST since you ask me to explain things, can I ask you to explain something? Can you please explain what you think this verse means and how it fits in with your theory.

Daniel 12:12
Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.

This is one particular verse that I cannot reconcile with your theory of converting days to years. I would like to know how you reconcile this verse in your own mind....

.
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The KJV is the only PURE translation. Avoid modern corruptions like the NIV, they have been altered to support the coming Anti-Christ.
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Re: The beinning of the 70th week

Postby shorttribber on Fri Apr 28, 2017 9:24 pm

brett wrote:Sadly agreement in this case just means many are wrong together.

ST since you ask me to explain things, can I ask you to explain something? Can you please explain what you think this verse means and how it fits in with your theory.

Daniel 12:12
Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.

This is a verse that I cannot reconcile with your theory of converting days to years. I would like to know how you reconcile this in your own mind....

.

Sure brett, i'll be happy to.
This is the only time frame given beside Ezk. I think that corresponds to a year for a day fulfillment (Ezekiel's prophecy is another example of a year for a day, but that is well past)

I will copy and past from another thread that explains my position on the 1,335 days.......

here it is....

to keep it simple and short.
I expect the AOD to occur 6-9 months from now, although it could possibly be sooner than that.

After the AOD, there will be at least 1,260 days of great tribulation (Saints still on earth then) , and God's Wrath will be poured out during the following 30 days After That, But Saints Gone Before God Outpours His Wrath during that 30 day period.

In other words, 1,290 days of Great tribulation, but God
"Shortens" "Those Days" to closer to 1,260 for the Saints.



Following is an example of the beauty of Bible Prophecy....I could be wrong on this, but I don't think I am.
imagine this....
The 1,335 days(Year for a Day) prophecy began in (683-687 Exact date/Unknown, Dome of the Rock Construction Began/Planted Tabernacles of the Spirit of Antichrist), and it is then still being currently fulfilled.
The 1,290 day(Literal 24 hour days) Begins this Fall, and "Those Days" come to and End on the Exact Same Day as the 1,335 Ends in 2021 (Probably).


1,335
+ 685?...Edited correction this date is Flexible within about 4 years
(683-687)Construction Began on the Dome of the Rock
2021? (the correction and flexible date could then be closer to 2020-2022)

The Wisest men have changed their Counsels and Resolves upon second thoughts, much more upon experience, and approaching evils not at first discovered. Rev. Herbert Croft, 1675

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Re: The beinning of the 70th week

Postby brett on Fri Apr 28, 2017 9:45 pm

Hmmm, ok..... is the below correct?

Daniel 12:
11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.
12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.


Are you saying that in one verse you are reading it as 1290 literal days and then the next verse you are reading it as 1335 years?
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Re: The beinning of the 70th week

Postby shorttribber on Fri Apr 28, 2017 10:22 pm

brett wrote:Hmmm, ok..... is the below correct?
Daniel 12:11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days. 12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.

Are you saying that in one verse you are reading it as 1290 literal days and then the next verse you are reading it as 1335 years?


Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying, and the reason I say so are for two primary reasons.

First...the bridge in time that happens from the end of Daniel 11 (Planting the Tabernacles of his(spirit of antichrist's) Palace, and the Start of Chapter 12 (where it is said, "At That Time", and the details of a far distant future event (Great tribulation) begins.

Second....where it is said, "8 And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things?
9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.
(Clearly, these times then next given are intended to be Revealed ONLY at the END, these following times then, that he will then give Have a Certain Mystery or Complexity to them that are not clear until the End....(and one date given in actual Days, and another given in a year for a day COULD have the Desired Sealing Effect God has utilized.)
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Re: The beinning of the 70th week

Postby brett on Fri Apr 28, 2017 10:38 pm

.
Well this is one big reason why I cannot accept your theory. Come on ST, you know this is not right.....

How could God switch like that between days and years and deliberately mislead the reader? That means the Word of God has an error, because you are saying in one instant "day" means "day" and the very next verse "day" means "year". As if God's word could be so blatantly wrong like that, or misleading like that.

Seriously please ST - you know this is not right. This is obviously ONLY something that would need to be done to fit a theory........normal reading of the text would not require this.........please I beg you to think about this and realise its incorrect to do this........please brother think it over.

.
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Re: The beinning of the 70th week

Postby shorttribber on Fri Apr 28, 2017 11:08 pm

brett wrote:Come on ST, you know this is not right.....

That's just not true brett...I'm not the least bit delusional or intentionally deceptive to my self or others.
brett wrote:How could God switch like that between days and years and deliberately mislead the reader?

I have just told you why....to Seal up the vision until the End brett, how is that so far from the character of God, to make something not as plain as day? There are many examples where God is intentionally Sovereign and unclear in His word, to "Seal up the Vision".
brett wrote:That means the Word of God has an error, because you are saying in one instant "day" means "day" and the very next verse "day" means "year". As if God's word could be so blatantly wrong like that, or misleading like that.

God is not wrong, and His word is not wrong brett. His Word is Sealed Up, Not Wrong. How is that not able to be understood as His Sovereign method, and according to His choosing and not Error?
brett wrote:Seriously please ST - you know this is not right.

I'm being completely honest and completely serious brett, God's ways are far beyond our comprehension. He is not bound by how any of us think His word should be fulfilled.
brett wrote:This is obviously ONLY something that would need to be done to fit a theory.

The short trib position is not the least bit dependent upon what I'm suggesting of these two time periods brett.....just so you know that.
Only recently I have come to realize that those days COULD have that kind of fulfillment pattern....and I've been shorttrib for about 20 years now.
The Wisest men have changed their Counsels and Resolves upon second thoughts, much more upon experience, and approaching evils not at first discovered. Rev. Herbert Croft, 1675

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Re: The beinning of the 70th week

Postby brett on Fri Apr 28, 2017 11:23 pm

.
Ok ........so the bible has hidden "Code Words" in it that only some "true" believers will be able to decode does it? Kinda like "Mission Impossible"? So God deliberately planted some "different" words in places to hide the true words so the scriptures would be sealed? Sounds like something the devil would do not God.

"days" does not mean "days" in one verse and then "years" in the very next verse.......so you're saying the "days" in Daniel 12:12 is really a "Code Word" for years? Who knows, maybe it means hours, seconds or months instead? I mean who decides what the original word is under the "Code Word"?

:roll:

Come on ST..... Note I mock to try to get you to see how silly it is, not to hurt you.

.
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The KJV is the only PURE translation. Avoid modern corruptions like the NIV, they have been altered to support the coming Anti-Christ.
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Re: The beinning of the 70th week

Postby shorttribber on Sat Apr 29, 2017 12:55 am

brett wrote:Come on ST..... Note I mock to try to get you to see how silly it is, not to hurt you.

Think as you wish brett.
brett wrote:Ok ........so the bible has hidden "Code Words" in it that only some "true" believers will be able to decode does it?

I've not made my self out to be any kind of believer than any other.
brett wrote:I mean who decides......

God does.
The Wisest men have changed their Counsels and Resolves upon second thoughts, much more upon experience, and approaching evils not at first discovered. Rev. Herbert Croft, 1675

Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counsellors there is safety.

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Re: The beinning of the 70th week

Postby WOODHENOT3 on Sat Apr 29, 2017 9:17 am

Short Tribber,

If the AC doesn't show up this Fall, then your theory is invalid....
Any world leader you see coming to the scene?
In Christ Always,
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Re: The beinning of the 70th week

Postby shorttribber on Sat Apr 29, 2017 9:39 am

WOODHENOT3 wrote:Short Tribber,

If the AC doesn't show up this Fall, then your theory is invalid....
Any world leader you see coming to the scene?

Shorttrib is not invalid if AC does not show up this fall. These things are a Possibility that Could happen, Whether or not the AOD happens this fall really has no bearing ( causing it to be fact or not) at all regarding shorttrib.

The things lining up that are occurring just has me thinking that those things Could very well occur in the space of time I'm saying, and that's all.

He's already on the Scene Woody.....he is not yet Become the AC though.
When satan is cast out of heaven, probably this fall, he (AC) will become known as such at that time.
The Wisest men have changed their Counsels and Resolves upon second thoughts, much more upon experience, and approaching evils not at first discovered. Rev. Herbert Croft, 1675

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Re: The beinning of the 70th week

Postby WOODHENOT3 on Sat Apr 29, 2017 10:46 am

He's already on the Scene Woody.....he is not yet Become the AC though


Mind me asking, "who's "he""?
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Re: The beinning of the 70th week

Postby shorttribber on Sat Apr 29, 2017 10:53 am

WOODHENOT3 wrote:
He's already on the Scene Woody.....he is not yet Become the AC though


Mind me asking, "who's "he""?

Since I don't want to come right out and say, i'll just say this....at this time, he is working in the Shadows, and STILL causing Craft to prosper.

When what Jesus foresaw comes to pass, and when satan Falls as "Lightning From the Heights", then you will know.
The Wisest men have changed their Counsels and Resolves upon second thoughts, much more upon experience, and approaching evils not at first discovered. Rev. Herbert Croft, 1675

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Re: The beinning of the 70th week

Postby WOODHENOT3 on Sat Apr 29, 2017 11:07 am

It rhymes with :bump: ....
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Re: The beinning of the 70th week

Postby shorttribber on Sat Apr 29, 2017 11:14 am

WOODHENOT3 wrote:It rhymes with :bump: ....

No Woody, Trump will be the one that probably makes the Fake/Decoy 7 year deal, while probably at the same time, or very near proximity in time, the AOD will occur At the Dome of the Rock, courtesy of the Real AC.



I could be wrong about that....but we must wait and see
The Wisest men have changed their Counsels and Resolves upon second thoughts, much more upon experience, and approaching evils not at first discovered. Rev. Herbert Croft, 1675

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Re: The beinning of the 70th week

Postby Mr Baldy on Sat Apr 29, 2017 1:28 pm

WOODHENOT3 wrote:Short Tribber, If the AC doesn't show up this Fall, then your theory is invalid....Any world leader you see coming to the scene?


shorttribber wrote:He's already on the Scene Woody.....he is not yet Become the AC though.


WOODHENOT3 wrote:Mind me asking, "who's "he""?


shorttribber wrote:Since I don't want to come right out and say, i'll just say this....at this time, he is working in the Shadows, and STILL causing Craft to prosper.


Shorty, Shorty, Shorty....................

It has become very apparent to me that you have such a great mind, and a very wonderful gift to desire, understand, and learn Prophecy - but it will be VOID if you allow "sensationalism & sophistry" to overrule your good intentions.

As Scripture is recorded, we absolutely cannot be dogmatic about our views as it relates to the "man of sin"; coming "Antichrist". Scripture is very, very, very clear that he will remain hidden until the PROPER time that he should be revealed. (2 Thessalonians 2:1-8)

Those who try to dogmatically predict or label the coming Antichrist; set dates & times; and have thought in their OWN understanding that they have it all figured OUT - ALL have one thing in common...........

They ALL have been 100% INCORRECT.

While believers will have a certain understanding about the 2nd Coming - they will most certainly NOT know the Day, nor the Hour.

We have some time yet before the revelation of the coming Antichrist. Wars are yet to be decreed - and a Global single monetary system in order to require people be under a Totalitarian Society will have to be readily apparent before the Antichrist can be revealed.
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Re: The beinning of the 70th week

Postby shorttribber on Sat Apr 29, 2017 1:31 pm

shorttribber wrote:I could be wrong about that....but we must wait and see


Did you miss this sentence Mr. B.?
The Wisest men have changed their Counsels and Resolves upon second thoughts, much more upon experience, and approaching evils not at first discovered. Rev. Herbert Croft, 1675

Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counsellors there is safety.

Find seven years of tribulation plainly stated in the Bible.
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Re: The beinning of the 70th week

Postby shorttribber on Sat Apr 29, 2017 1:39 pm

Mr Baldy wrote:Scripture is very, very, very clear that he will remain hidden until the PROPER time that he should be revealed. (2 Thessalonians 2:1-8)

I don't recall that the text says he is "hidden", only that he will be "Revealed" at the appointed time. I have also said that Mr. B., and I have said it in the same way...he will be "Revealed " then....that's why we all Can be wrong about ANY of our ideas about that...and I have also said that, have I not?

I also haven't mentioned Any Date regarding the AOD (Only a General Time period)....or the Coming of Christ.

So are your accusations accurate in that respect?
The Wisest men have changed their Counsels and Resolves upon second thoughts, much more upon experience, and approaching evils not at first discovered. Rev. Herbert Croft, 1675

Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counsellors there is safety.

Find seven years of tribulation plainly stated in the Bible.
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Re: The beinning of the 70th week

Postby shorttribber on Sat Apr 29, 2017 1:41 pm

Mr Baldy wrote:While believers will have a certain understanding about the 2nd Coming - they will most certainly NOT know the Day, nor the Hour.

Have I ever said or mentioned any such thing Mr. B.?
The Wisest men have changed their Counsels and Resolves upon second thoughts, much more upon experience, and approaching evils not at first discovered. Rev. Herbert Croft, 1675

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Re: The beinning of the 70th week

Postby shorttribber on Sat Apr 29, 2017 1:47 pm

Mr Baldy wrote:We have some time yet before the revelation of the coming Antichrist.

Maybe you can prove that in another thread...with scripture
Mr Baldy wrote:Wars are yet to be decreed

And where in scripture do we find those...seems there are many wars already occurring.
Mr Baldy wrote:and a Global single monetary system in order to require people be under a Totalitarian Society will have to be readily apparent before the Antichrist can be revealed.

Really, I don't recall seeing that in scripture either. I find that in 2 Thes 2:1-8 it doesn't say that...can show where it does?
The Wisest men have changed their Counsels and Resolves upon second thoughts, much more upon experience, and approaching evils not at first discovered. Rev. Herbert Croft, 1675

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Re: The beinning of the 70th week

Postby Mr Baldy on Sat Apr 29, 2017 2:42 pm

shorttribber wrote:I don't recall that the text says he is "hidden", only that he will be "Revealed" at the appointed time. I have also said that Mr. B., and I have said it in the same way...he will be "Revealed " then....that's why we all Can be wrong about ANY of our ideas about that...and I have also said that, have I not?I also haven't mentioned Any Date regarding the AOD (Only a General Time period)....or the Coming of Christ.So are your accusations accurate in that respect?



WHEW!..................... :boxer:

Hey Shorty,

RELAX.........take a deep breath. I'm in on this with you brother. :sunshine:
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Re: The beinning of the 70th week

Postby Mark F on Sun Apr 30, 2017 6:12 am

Exit40 wrote:OK, I'll dive in one more time as to the beginning of the 70th week. I believe the 7 and 62 weeks ends here ...

Dan 9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be...

... and the time of 'unto Messiah the Prince' is prophesied here also...

Isa 61:1 ¶ The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;

so therefore I believe the time of 'unto Messiah the Prince' is fulfilled here...

Jhn 1:32 ¶ And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him.
Jhn 1:33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.
Jhn 1:34 And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.


The passages in John I believe mark the beginning of the 70th week. This is the anointing spoken of in Isaiah 61. Jesus confirmed this fulfillment Himself when He read from the book of Isaiah 61, the part of it that was fulfilled 'at that time' which marked the beginning of His Ministry, having been anointed to do just that at His baptism/anointing.

Luk 4:20 And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.
Luk 4:21 And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.


Working through this difficult Prophecy of Daniel 9 that covers so much we discover this is Jesus that causes the sacrifice and oblation to cease...

Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease...

... by His crucifixion 3.5 years after the beginning of the 70th week, perfectly in 'the midst', or middle of the week. Leaving 3.5 years yet to be accomplished. Call this a gap or whatever you will, the time period until the beginning of the second half of the week at the AoD allows for the punishment of the Jews for their continual corruption of the Holy City and Temple and rejecting the Messiah, the cause of the desolation, and for the time of the fullness of the Gentiles to come into the Church. This is about as simple as I can maker it, confirmed by the Scriptures, I believe.

The 70th week begins precisely on time, at Jesus' anointing/baptism.

God Bless

David


There are many places in the gospels where Jesus repeatedly told people to be silent about what He did for them, He did not want His true identity broadcast until His time had come. Shall I list the texts?

Jesus Himself said in Matthew 3:15 the purpose of His baptism: "Permit it to be so now, for thus it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness." This is done as proof of His perfection and qualification as the sinless savior not speaking to His bloodline or His eligibility to the throne......

He didn't say it was necessary to anoint Him Messiah the Prince.

The starting date and qualifications of the city and the wall are clear in that the 70 weeks begin March 14, 445 bc. Any date prior ignores the text.

However, John 12:14-15 proclaims that when Jesus found the young donkey, He fulfilled the prophecy of Zechariah 9:9 in which Jesus Himself came into Jerusalem presenting Himself as King of Israel, according to Scripture.

In Luke 19 Jesus weeps because He knew the judgment that was to come upon them for their rejection of Him at that moment as Messiah the Prince.

You choose the baptism as Jesus presenting Himself as Messiah the Prince not because of Scripture, but because it fits your theory.
Mark

All Scripture from NKJV

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Re: The beinning of the 70th week

Postby Ready1 on Sun Apr 30, 2017 8:03 am

Mark F

If I am reading you correctly, you would use the Nehemiah passage as the starting point (445 bc) and the triumphal entry as the ending point? 17,388 days?
Just observing.

E.
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Re: The beinning of the 70th week

Postby Exit40 on Sun Apr 30, 2017 9:49 am

Ready1 wrote:
Mr Baldy wrote:
Ready1 wrote:I get it that you believe that the seventy weeks are over. When do you believe that the 70th week started?



After the 69th week ended. :mrgreen:


Exit40, you would say that Jesus baptism would be the start of the 70th week? Mr Baldy are you in agreement with Exit40 or do you see it differently?


Yes. It is possible the week started at the beginning of His Ministry when He read from Isaiah. But I think His Anointing at His baptism fits the context and Prophecy better. The first half of the week end at His Crucifixion.

God Bless You

David
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God

T'was Grace that taught my heart to fear.
And Grace, my fears relieved.
How precious did that Grace appear
The hour I first believed.
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Re: The beinning of the 70th week

Postby Exit40 on Sun Apr 30, 2017 10:11 am

Mark F wrote:You choose the baptism as Jesus presenting Himself as Messiah the Prince not because of Scripture, but because it fits your theory.


Hi Mark. I 'choose' His Anointing at His Baptism for a reason. That is the point in time He is filled with the Spirit of God, Making Him for the first time Messiah the Prince as Prophesied. Not the King of the Jews at his entry into Jerusalem. He was not the full Messiah before that time, but was from then on for the next 3.5 years. I'm not making up a theory and picking passages that fit. I read the Scriptures and see what they might mean. That is what I, you, and the rest of us do.

God Bless You

David
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God

T'was Grace that taught my heart to fear.
And Grace, my fears relieved.
How precious did that Grace appear
The hour I first believed.
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Re: The beinning of the 70th week

Postby Jay Ross on Sun Apr 30, 2017 2:41 pm

What is being assumed, it appears to me, is that the sum of the 69 weeks in Daniel 9:25 plus the one week in Daniel 7:27 is exactly equal to the 70 weeks of Daniel 9:24.

Does this assumption hold up to the context of the whole passage of Daniel 9:24-27?

From my understanding of these four verses, Daniel 9:26b, spans a time period of around 2,000 years, when the war in heaven ends and when Satan and the wicked heavenly hosts are cast down to the earth to be imprisoned in the bottomless pit (Isaiah 24:21-22), for 1,000 years, from which they will rise up from, during the little while period, at the end of the Millennium Age. My research indicates that the little while period that Satan is released for, after his imprisonment for 1,000 years, is of the order of 24 years long.

Daniel 9:26: - And the people of the prince who is to come
Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.
The end of it shall be with a flood,
And till the end of the war desolations are determined.

Now the question that must be answered is which "war" must end so the desolations of the City of Jerusalem and the Sanctuary can End?

In Revelation 12 we are told that there is a "war" in Heaven which is also mirrored by the "wars" here on the earth over Jerusalem and the Sanctuary which are still continuing today.

The question that is raised for me in this discussion from the posts is, a number of members who are posting their thoughts is, Why do these members ignore the span in time of Daniel 9:26b, which separates the death of the Messiah from the Covenant entered into for one week with many, not considered as being important in the big overall picture of the five separate prophecies given in the Daniel 9:24-27 passage?

Now Daniel 9:24a concerning the people of Daniel and the city of Jerusalem to end their transgressions and to put an end to their sins has a time span of 490 years which began in the year 494 BC and ended when Christ was born in the year 4 BC.

Then in Daniel 9:24b we are told what God will put in place to achieve the ending of the transgression and the putting an end to sin with no timespan given for the accomplishment of the following, To make reconciliation for iniquity, To bring in everlasting righteousness, To seal up vision and prophecy, And to anoint the Most Holy.

In Daniel 9:25 we are told that from the going forth of the command to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until the Messiah comes, there shall be 483 years. From history we know that the construction of Herod's Temple ended in the year 26BC, so using a little mathematics we can determine that the year in which the command to restore and rebuild Jerusalem occurred in the year 457 BC.

Now in the Daniel 9:26a prophecy we are told that after the year 26 BC that the Messiah will be cut off but not for Himself. It is generally accepted that Christ, the Messiah, was crucified in the year 30 AD.

Then some time after the Messiah is cut off, in Daniel 9:26b, we are told that a "Prince," the Little Horn (Daniel 8:9-12), a demonic heavenly host, comes with an army of people to bring desolation on Jerusalem and the Sanctuary for a very long period of time until the end of the War over Jerusalem. This war is to end in our near future when the time of the trampling by the Gentiles of the Sanctuary for 2,300 years is complete.

It is only when the Sanctuary of God is restored once again that the prophecy contained in Daniel 9:27 can begin to unfold. However, the Daniel 9:27 prophecy has no indicated sign post in time to tell us when it will begin, only that it has a seven year period in which it will play out and that at the end of this time period, that the desolator, i.e. Satan, will suffer the following: - "until the consummation, which is determined, Is poured out on the desolate," i.e. Jesus casts Satan into the Lake of Fire.

Some how, the mathematical assumptions have over ridden understanding that we should have for these four verses.

Shalom
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Re: The beinning of the 70th week

Postby WOODHENOT3 on Mon May 01, 2017 9:07 am

9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

As I see it, one week means "7 years", not 70th week.... the 70th week has happened during the 70 weeks, so the consequences of the 70th week fits very clearly to the 7 year war with the 70AD being in the Midst....
It seems to me that its completed and prophecy has been fullfilled.... I see the book of Revelations as the last 3 1/2 years....

The destructions of jerusalem and the Temple has been completed, desolated...sacrafice ended...therefore, no 7 year period....
In Christ Always,
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Re: The beinning of the 70th week

Postby 1whowaits on Mon May 01, 2017 8:26 pm

Jerusalem has been rebuilt and 2 Thess 2 indicates that there will be a temple of God that the AC sets himself up in. Rev 11 describes a temple of God that can be measured and has an altar and worshipers. If there is an altar and worshipers in the temple, the depiction would suggest that sacrifices are also occurring. It would appear that there will be a future temple with sacrifices that will be in place for Dan 9: 27 to still have a future fulfillment.

Also, imo, the goals set for Israel in Dan 9 cannot be fulfilled until Israel accepts Christ as Messiah and King, a future fulfillment that is described in Zech 12-14.

Dan 9 describes the 69 weeks and then refers to 'the end', the end appearing to be a time distant from 70 AD when the temple and Jerusalem were destroyed, suggesting a future fulfillment of a 7 year period, beyond the 69 weeks described.

Jay mentioned previously that there is no signpost in scripture to indicate when this time will begin which may be true. In the op i have theorized that God may have left some clues as to His timing of the future 'seven', the counting of seven Sabbath Years up to the Year of Jubilee could be a signpost for when events may begin to take place.

Also, Jesus describes' the beginning of birth-pangs' in Matt 24 as being events that occur prior to the midpoint, the GT, suggesting that wars, famines, pestilences and earthquakes will occur with greater frequency and intensity sometime prior to the midpoint.

Dan 9 states that the 'end will come like a flood', what is being referred to here? Could this be some reference pointing to the flood at the time of Noah, the great Deluge? If the end were to come like 'the flood', theoretically that could be a 'signpost' in time. The great flood began on the 17th day of the 2nd month, a specific date is listed in scripture, which is interesting, considering that we are in the second month now.

There may be signposts in scripture that we do not fully realize are signposts as of yet.
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Re: The beinning of the 70th week

Postby shorttribber on Mon May 01, 2017 8:41 pm

1whowaits wrote:Dan 9 states that the 'end will come like a flood', what is being referred to here?


Hi WW1,
I think that it may refer to this text...

Rev 12
15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.

There are other flood references that also refer to that time I think....haven't got the time tonight to list them though
The Wisest men have changed their Counsels and Resolves upon second thoughts, much more upon experience, and approaching evils not at first discovered. Rev. Herbert Croft, 1675

Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counsellors there is safety.

Find seven years of tribulation plainly stated in the Bible.
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Re: The beinning of the 70th week

Postby Mr Baldy on Tue May 02, 2017 3:22 am

1whowaits wrote:Dan 9 describes the 69 weeks and then refers to 'the end', the end appearing to be a time distant from 70 AD when the temple and Jerusalem were destroyed, suggesting a future fulfillment of a 7 year period, beyond the 69 weeks described.


1whowaits,

Daniel 9 describes 70 weeks. The End it describes is two fold. First, it describes the end of the 70 weeks, and it's end will come in like a flood - not the End of this Age.

Second: You seem to be implying that the "he" mentioned in Daniel 9:27 is the Antichrist - further separating the 69 weeks from the 70 weeks that were determined - when Scripture clearly identifies Christ as dying in the 70th week, being "cut off" or Crucified in the "midst" of it.

Last: There is a separation in Daniel 9:27 - meaning Christ who is cut off - and the "desolater who will come".

Daniel 9:27 - New American Standard Bible (NASB)

And he will make a firm covenant with the many for one week, but in the middle of the week he will put a stop to sacrifice and grain offering; and on the wing of abominations will come one who makes desolate, even until a complete destruction, one that is decreed, is poured out on the one who makes desolate.”


In closing, this Prophecy is two fold. If you identify the "he" as the Antichrist then this may be Antiochus Epiphanes. It is very clear to me that Daniel 9:27 identifies Two different Individuals. The one who puts a stop to sacrifice & grain offering in the 70th week - and the one who comes and makes desolate which appears to be future. This could very well be two different Antichrist's - performing an act that is similar in that they both are "Abominations".

If the "he" is Christ - then it flows with what has been mentioned in the previous verses, and allows for the future Antichrist to come in and cause the Abomination that causes desolation - and further reconciles Scripture with what Jesus referred to in Matthew 24:15.
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