Daniel 9:24 Goals, what do they mean?

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Re: Daniel 9:24 Goals, what do they mean?

Postby keithareilly on Tue Apr 04, 2017 7:04 pm

Jay,

God knew that the Israelite nation would not repent of their primary transgression nor would they stop sinning because God had prophetically told them within the bounds of the Covenant that he had entered into with them, which they had rebelled against within 40 or so days, that the idolatrous sins of the fathers during their first and second ages of their existence would be visited upon their children and their children's children during the third and the fourth ages of their existence.


Two things,
First.
Try adjusting your statements to others perspectives. You could just as easily have said the God visited the sins of those who rebelled during the first 40 days or so throughout the generations. You could add the phrase "even until the first century" or "even till today" depending upon when your fourth age time frame ends, give some sort of historical or future event in the bible instead of talking about ages. Why? because people have a tendency to throw the baby out with the bath water. If you introduce all sorts of other ideas that "seem" to need adopting to accept your point, then people will ignore your point because they do not accept the accompanied ideas. Focus on your point; eliminate what might stand in the way of accepting that point. Give people the opportunity to take one step at a time.

Second.
The people who rebelled in the first 40 or so days were killed in the desert so they don't have generations. It is those who were not killed that sided with Moses that continued to sin.

Keith
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Re: Daniel 9:24 Goals, what do they mean?

Postby Jay Ross on Tue Apr 04, 2017 10:00 pm

Keith

The first age of the existence of the Israelites began with the birth of Isaac around the year 2051 BC and the end of the second age and the start of the third age began with the birth of Christ around the year 4 BC.

The end of the fourth age of the existence of the Israelite people will end in our near future somewhere around the year 2040 AD after the judgement of the Kings of the earth at Armageddon, which is also the time when the 2,300 years prophecy of the trampling of the sanctuary ends, and all of Israel is saved. This is when the Nation of Israel repents and accept the terms of the covenant made new again. In essences, the covenant that they will accepted in our near future is the same covenant that they had agreed to at MT. Sinai before they rebelled within 40 days of agreeing to the terms of the covenant back then.

God in Daniel 9:24 had given the nation of Israel a 490 year window of opportunity to repent from their sin of idolatrous worship before the sins of the fathers would be visited upon their children and their children's children during the third and the fourth age of their existence.

Christ also offered the people in Israel a light yoke instead of the heavy yoke of the visitation of their iniquities upon them during His time of ministering to the nation of Israel, but this offer was also rejected by the people.

Christ then fulfilled the last four things mentioned in the Daniel 9:24 prophecy in that He completed the following: -

To make reconciliation for iniquity,
To bring in everlasting righteousness,
To seal up vision and prophecy,
And to anoint the Most Holy.

I know that my sentences can be fairly difficult to understand because of how complicated crossing the "t" and doting the "i" can be to ensure that the context of the sentence is correct.

From your posted comments on my post, I can only conclude that I failed to adequately communicate my intended message to you and/or the other readers of this board.

I know that it can be difficult to understand someone else's views, when they appear to be so complex in character.

If I could find someone to edit/write in simple English my posts before they are published, I would use them to make my understanding of scripture and prophecy more easily understood.

However, the biases of many readers do not make it an easy task to undertake as they see dimly through the bias classes that they use.
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Re: Daniel 9:24 Goals, what do they mean?

Postby keithareilly on Wed Apr 05, 2017 4:46 am

So Jay,

You think the goals of Daniel 9:24 have been completed?
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Re: Daniel 9:24 Goals, what do they mean?

Postby Exit40 on Wed Apr 05, 2017 6:31 am

Mr Baldy wrote:I agree David - we do need more discussion. But I disagree that "All of them must be achieved" (meaning the 6 requirements set forth in Daniel 9:24)
If you notice it says: "TO BRING" in each of those requirements - not fulfill or complete each of them


Hi Mr B. I respectfully point out only one of the conditions in vs 24 start with ' to bring ', that being condition number four, ' to bring in everlasting righteousness'. All of the six conditions are started out with action verbs, for example 'to finish' the transgression is defined as ...

to restrict, restrain, withhold, shut up, keep back, refrain, forbid, to shut up, to restrain, to withhold, to be restrained, to finish. So the 70 weeks are determined ' TO DO ' these things. Determined is defined as ... to divide, determine, to be determined, be decreed, be settled, be marked out.

I don't see anywhere in this language the reference to anything to the effect of 'laying a foundation for' or any such similar language to a future completion. So with the 70 weeks being decreed as a certain and precise length of time I am going with the belief all the conditions must be accomplished within that time frame.

Returning to ' and to make reconciliation for iniquity ' I am reminded of the following Scripture, which also deals with the Covenant ...

Heb 10:9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
Heb 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all ...


This passage is stating ' we are ' sanctified, once for all, by Jesus' sacrifice for our sins. Sanctify is defined as ...

to render or acknowledge, or to be venerable or hallow, to separate from profane things and dedicate to God, consecrate things to God, dedicate people to God, to purify, to cleanse externally, to purify by expiation: free from the guilt of sin, to purify internally by renewing of the soul.

Discovering as I go here, I don't see the word 'reconcile' in the above definition as I thought I would, meaning the re establishing of friendly relations. However it seems to be implied, at least to me. Further in Hebrews 10 ...

Heb 10:12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
Heb 10:13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.
Heb 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.


Another implication of reconciliation is the Lord by His sacrifice has ' perfected for ever ' those who are sanctified. Reconciliation seems implied here too. Have we been reconciled to our Father ?

Col 1:20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
Col 1:21 ¶ And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
Col 1:22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:

2Co 5:18
And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
2Co 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

Heb 2:17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.


Scripture states we are reconciled.

God Bless

David
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And Grace, my fears relieved.
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Re: Daniel 9:24 Goals, what do they mean?

Postby Jay Ross on Wed Apr 05, 2017 1:49 pm

keithareilly wrote:So Jay,

You think the goals of Daniel 9:24 have been completed?


No and Yes.

The People of Daniel and Jerusalem did not respond within the allocated 490 years time period, which ended when the third age of their existence commenced, to do the following: -

Daniel 9:24a: -
"Seventy weeks are determined
For your people and for your holy city,
To finish the transgression,
To make an end of sins,


And yes Jesus fulfilled the following during the time of His first advent, but after the 490 years of Grace given to Israel to repent and to stop sinning: -
Daniel 9:24b: -
"To make reconciliation for iniquity,
To bring in everlasting righteousness,
To seal up vision and prophecy,
And to anoint the Most Holy."
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Re: Daniel 9:24 Goals, what do they mean?

Postby Jay Ross on Wed Apr 05, 2017 2:56 pm

Mr Baldy wrote:
Jay Ross wrote:The problem we have with Daniel 9:24-27 is that some "bright" mathematician observed that the 70 weeks in Daniel 9:24 is the answer to the summation of the weeks listed in Daniel 9:25 and 27 and concluded that the time span in Daniel 9:24 must encompasses the three time spans in Daniel 9:25 and 27. This is not true as the short five prophetic words given in Daniel 9:24-27 are all independent of each other and are not dependent on each other with respect to their actual time of fulfilment.


Jay Ross, I have vowed not to respond to any more of your comments (unless you keep your comments based on Scripture) - but you do bring up an interesting point. And because in my very humble opinion, your interpretation of Scripture certainly leaves a lot to be desired - you have yet hit on a point that should be considered. I only respectfully ask that you STICK with Scripture on any future responses, and not go off on this outrageous nonsensical voyage of a fanatical world of delusions to make your point.

Now, the point that you bring up that has at least peaked my interest, is your first sentence in your aforementioned comments. Let me respectfully remind you that the 70 weeks of Prophecy listed in Daniel 9:24-27 is a "Continuum" - and not some eschatological mystic scenario that must incorporate the "Angelic Host" as you often like to bring up.

While I agree with you that the prophetic words given in Daniel 9:24-27 are all "independent of each other and are not dependent on each other with respect to their actual time or fulfillment" - they absolutely HAVE to be BROUGHT IN as it relates to the 70th Week.

In my very humble opinion:

The BRINGING IN - was fulfilled with the Coming of Christ at Birth; His Death - and Resurrection.

This particular Prophecy ALL Pointed to Christ.

So, with all due respect, lets keep this very practical so that the entire Body of Christ who may be reading this may be edified.

Mr Baldy, this posts speaks more about you than it does about me.

Now what I write does edify the entire body of Christ if they are willing to allow what I write to speak to them.

However, because your formulated understand of scripture is challenged by what I write you let rip with your words and verbally abuse the author, i.e. me in this case, of what you personally find offensive, without providing any substantiating evidence to show the actual error that the author may have "mistakenly" made ,as per your humble opinion.

The evidence is there for you to discern, that what I write about the wicked fallen heavenly hosts being the four beasts of Daniel 7:1-12, is found in the second verse of this passage where it mentions the four demonic spirits, i.e. the "four winds of heaven" where the word "wind" is a metaphor for the word "spirit."

Now in this passage we are told that the four winds of heaven are the four beasts that manifest themselves in the people such that we are able to see their characteristics in the people/sea who have chosen to inhabit their respective dominions over the people such that the four beasts rise up, as it were, above the sea of people.

Now once I made that very simple connection that the four winds of heaven were fallen wicked heavenly hosts/angels, the Bible began to make sense when it spoke about their being a war in heaven and that Satan and his angels were thrown out of heaven and down to the earth where they were immediately imprisoned in a pit, i.e. the bottomless pit, to await their time of punishment at the very end of the Millennium Age.

Mr. Baldy, you claim in many of your posts that you want God's truth to be revealed on this forum however when you strongly come against members that you fervently disagree with that is not the case and God's truth has no chance of being revealed.

Now in your quoted post above, you are asking me to not reveal God's truth found in scripture but to adhere to your understanding so that your feathers are not ruffled or disturbed in any way.

I am sorry Mr B, God does not nor will not allow me to operate in that way.

Now as a wise minister tells us, "We cannot fix another person, only ourselves." However, allowing God's characteristics to prevail in our lives does go a long way towards helping to bring reconciliation between aggrieved parties.

Shalom
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Re: Daniel 9:24 Goals, what do they mean?

Postby keithareilly on Sat Apr 08, 2017 7:03 pm

David wrote,

I think we need more discussion. If the 70 weeks are contiguous and fulfilled, then the conditions of vs 24 are also. All of them must be achieved, not made possible at some future time outside of the 70 weeks. Good discussion, I am revisiting my former assessment on reconciliation too. We might need to bone up on Temple Sacrifices and their full meanings to address all of this. And how it is that Christ has fulfilled them, if indeed He has, fully, which seems to be a condition of the Prophecy too.


David, have you any insights to share concerning "reconciliation"?
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Re: Daniel 9:24 Goals, what do they mean?

Postby Exit40 on Sun Apr 09, 2017 5:11 am

Hi Keith. Scroll up to see my post on Wed Apr 05, 2017 5:31 am. Yes,I believe we are reconciled according to the Scriptures presented.

God Bless You
'
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And Grace, my fears relieved.
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Re: Daniel 9:24 Goals, what do they mean?

Postby keithareilly on Sun Apr 09, 2017 5:42 am

David wrote earlier...
Col 1:20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
Col 1:21 ¶ And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
Col 1:22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:


If we are "unblameable and unreproveable in his sight" then Satan cannot be successfully accusing us regardless of whether he is in heaven or has been cast down.

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Re: Daniel 9:24 Goals, what do they mean?

Postby Exit40 on Mon Apr 10, 2017 6:38 am

keithareilly wrote:David wrote earlier...
Col 1:20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
Col 1:21 ¶ And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
Col 1:22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:


If we are "unblameable and unreproveable in his sight" then Satan cannot be successfully accusing us regardless of whether he is in heaven or has been cast down.

Keith


Hmm, wasn't Jesus innocent of all the accusations too ? Being accused is one thing, being guilty is another. Our trial in our Fathers Court is over, Christ has reconciled us to Him by His sacrifice, making us as innocent as Him. We are covered by His blood, and washed clean. Satan lost his case against us, his accusations have no meaning there. He is thrown out of that Court, to where his is now, walking about in the Spirit world that is all around us, seeking whom he can devour. He is not thrown to the Earth, our present corporal dimension. The only accusations he can make are, getting any or all of us accusing each other. In this respect, the only thing we are waiting for is our Judgement. Here is something to consider, we are free to reject this reconciliation. The Kingdom of Heaven is near, even within, if we are Christ's. For us who believe this, it is just a 'matter of time'. We are already citizens of the Kingdom, pilgrims here, now, waiting for our City to arrive. Our life here is the 'matter', the physical, of our dimension, which is 'time'.

What say you then, Pilgrim ?

God Bless You

David
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God

T'was Grace that taught my heart to fear.
And Grace, my fears relieved.
How precious did that Grace appear
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Re: Daniel 9:24 Goals, what do they mean?

Postby brett on Mon Apr 10, 2017 9:32 pm

Salvation is a FREE gift

Rewards are based on WORKS

The reason we still struggle is because satan can still tempt us to impact our rewards. The more we overcome temptation and serve Christ the greater our rewards in heaven. If we fall (fail) in our Christian lives and allow strongholds to take us captive then we'll be saved but our rewards will be small, we'll be "least in the Kingdom of heaven", but hey at least we'll be in the Kingdom of heaven !

Salvation is done and dusted......that matter is settled........we are reconciled to God once we believe on Christ, salvation is a free gift, one only has to believe on Christ ......rewards determine our place/role in God's Kingdom. For example some of us will be entrusted to rule over a suburb, some of us will be entrusted to rule over a city, others over entire nations ......etc..... God will place us in special positions of authority and honour depending on our (works now) service to Him in this life......

I hope this helps give more perspective to the discussion......in terms of reconciliation.

.
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Re: Daniel 9:24 Goals, what do they mean?

Postby keithareilly on Tue Apr 25, 2017 5:25 am

Shorttrib,

(Posted here in response to your Pinnacle statement in another thread.)

James 1:15
Then when lust has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and when sin is accomplished, it brings forth death.

"To finish transgression" means "and when sin is accomplished".
This does not imply all transgressions are finished.
There is a cycle:
Step 1: Lust exists but must conceive before sin can be born.
Step 2: Sin must be "accomplished" before it can bring forth death.
Step 3: Death is the consequence of accomplishing sin.

There is a cycle: Lust, Sin, Death.
The cycle repeats every time where lust conceives and sin is accomplished.

So it was that Israel's sin had to be accomplished before God removed them as tenants from the vineyard.
As I quoted in another thread, during the Bar-Kokhba revolt, blood was as high as a horses bridle.
This is the kind of death brought about by the murder of Christ by an entire nation whom God favored prior to their rejection. Moses prophesied this death as you have pointed out. The murder of Christ is the epitome of the sin described by Moses.

"To finish transgression" means to complete the part of the cycle described by "when sin is accomplished".
As Moses prophesied this, we know this particular Lust, Sin, and Death cycle dates to the time of Moses.
And "No" I am not certain this particular cycle is complete, although, Israel as a nation again may mean it is.

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Re: Daniel 9:24 Goals, what do they mean?

Postby Sonbeam on Tue Apr 25, 2017 1:48 pm

Rev 12
10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.



and if these things are available to us in our now, then, per verse 10, they are available to us because ...
"for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night."


Am I out of touch with how this program works when posting! It took me forever to get the above in quotes! That's
what I get for not posting more often.

Anyway, what I wanted to say to you Keith is that I agree with you about Satan being cast down at the completion
of Christ's work on the Cross. That is biblical.

The reason: Christ paid for all sins committed by those of the generation of Adam (all of us at one time) and then cleansed us all for the forgiveness of those sins with His blood. AND also on the Cross, Christ instituted the New Covenant under which those who enter into it have no sin.

Why? because "where there is no law there is no transgression."

Therefore, Satan has nothing now, no ammunition, to accuse any man or any saint of before God.

But aren't nonbelievers (those still of the Adamic generation) "sinning" right now? No. They are under the period
of grace that our Lord called "the year of the Lord's favor." That period is going to run out sometime before His return.

Hard to believe that nonbelievers are under God's grace right now, while it is still called today, right? Yes, but this is what God's grace is all about. And this is the Gospel.

To God be the glory! :a3:

sonbeam

--------------------------

In going over my comments above regarding whether nonbelievers are sinning right now, though I made a mistake and wrote No. (I've highlighted that in red), nonbelievers are still under grace right now and in right standing with God.

So rather than do a full edit here, I am posting a fuller answer/comment below.
sonbeam
Last edited by Sonbeam on Wed May 03, 2017 1:39 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Daniel 9:24 Goals, what do they mean?

Postby keithareilly on Tue Apr 25, 2017 4:07 pm

Thanks sonbeam.
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Re: Daniel 9:24 Goals, what do they mean?

Postby shorttribber on Tue Apr 25, 2017 4:16 pm

Sonbeam wrote:Why? because "where there is no law there is no transgression."Therefore, Satan has nothing, now ammunition, to accuse any man or any saint of before God.But aren't nonbelievers (those still of the Adamic generation) "sinning" right now? No. They are under the periodof grace that our Lord called "the year of the Lord's favor." That period is going to run out sometime before His return.


Christ has Commanded us many things...he has not defined them as suggestions for us. Commands ARE Laws. When we disobey them, we transgress those laws.

Sonbeam wrote:But aren't nonbelievers (those still of the Adamic generation) "sinning" right now? No. They are under the periodof grace that our Lord called "the year of the Lord's favor." That period is going to run out sometime before His return.


This is contrary to stripture.....we all sin sonbeam.


1 John 2:

2 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
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Re: Daniel 9:24 Goals, what do they mean?

Postby keithareilly on Tue Apr 25, 2017 4:30 pm

1 Tim 4:10
10 For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers.

Still, Sonbeam is correct about Christ paying the price for all sins, even the unbeleivers.
We believers just benefit more.
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Re: Daniel 9:24 Goals, what do they mean?

Postby shorttribber on Tue Apr 25, 2017 5:41 pm

keithareilly wrote:Still, Sonbeam is correct about Christ paying the price for all sins, even the unbeleivers.We believers just benefit more.


That is true, but it does not make his other assertion true also.
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Re: Daniel 9:24 Goals, what do they mean?

Postby Sonbeam on Wed Apr 26, 2017 8:22 am

shorttribber wrote:
Sonbeam wrote:Why? because "where there is no law there is no transgression."Therefore, Satan has nothing, now ammunition, to accuse any man or any saint of before God.But aren't nonbelievers (those still of the Adamic generation) "sinning" right now? No. They are under the periodof grace that our Lord called "the year of the Lord's favor." That period is going to run out sometime before His return.


Christ has Commanded us many things...he has not defined them as suggestions for us. Commands ARE Laws. When we disobey them, we transgress those laws.


Dear brother,

From your comments I see that you still believe we are bound by the Law. There is absolutely nothing wrong with
trying to keep the law. but this is not the covenant we are under right now or ever were. It is so easy
to fall into a belief system that tries to marry the Sinai covenant with the NT. Been there myself and revisit there
sometimes. But here is the Good News:

The only thing that is required of forgiven "men" now to enter into covenant with God under the NT is to BELIEVE in the One He has sent.

John 6:29 New International Version (NIV)

"29 Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”

Some things to remember in order for believers to extricate themselves from trying to keep the Law, i.e., the Sinai covenant is that:

God made that covenant with the Jews only. Non Jews (gentiles) were not included.

Abel, Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob (the wondering Aramean), and only God knows how many countless others of all nationalities were not included.

And that Sinai covenant is obsolete anyway, never to be reinstituted again.

And there's more, but I am pressed for time.

I will get to the rest of your comments soon. Right now I am in the middle of a big project and have a deadline
to meet.

:blessyou:

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Re: Daniel 9:24 Goals, what do they mean?

Postby Abiding in His Word on Wed Apr 26, 2017 8:58 am

shorttribber wrote:Christ has Commanded us many things...he has not defined them as suggestions for us. Commands ARE Laws. When we disobey them, we transgress those laws.


Col 2:13  When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions,
 
Col 2:14  having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. 
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Re: Daniel 9:24 Goals, what do they mean?

Postby shorttribber on Wed Apr 26, 2017 12:34 pm

Abiding in His Word wrote:
shorttribber wrote:Christ has Commanded us many things...he has not defined them as suggestions for us. Commands ARE Laws. When we disobey them, we transgress those laws.


Col 2:13  When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions,
 
Col 2:14  having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. 


Well, at this time, I still sin, and I ask God forgiveness for those sins whenever that occurs.
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Re: Daniel 9:24 Goals, what do they mean?

Postby shorttribber on Wed Apr 26, 2017 12:36 pm

No sonbeam, I'm not the least bound by the Law of Moses.

But I still sin, and by God's grace I am wonderfully forgiven.
The Wisest men have changed their Counsels and Resolves upon second thoughts, much more upon experience, and approaching evils not at first discovered. Rev. Herbert Croft, 1675

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Re: Daniel 9:24 Goals, what do they mean?

Postby Abiding in His Word on Wed Apr 26, 2017 12:56 pm

shorttribber wrote:Well, at this time, I still sin, and I ask God forgiveness for those sins whenever that occurs.


Yep...me too, ST! :(

And when I ask forgiveness, I also thank Him for not charging me with punishment. :bowing:
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Re: Daniel 9:24 Goals, what do they mean?

Postby WOODHENOT3 on Wed Apr 26, 2017 2:40 pm

Abiding in His Word wrote:
shorttribber wrote:Well, at this time, I still sin, and I ask God forgiveness for those sins whenever that occurs.


Yep...me too, ST! :(

And when I ask forgiveness, I also thank Him for not charging me with punishment. :bowing:


God doesn't punish, but He might discipline you though... :)
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Re: Daniel 9:24 Goals, what do they mean?

Postby Jay Ross on Wed Apr 26, 2017 3:08 pm

I find the labels that we have used are miss leading for the relational covenant with God.

The relational covenant that we have with God has been consistent from the very beginning of the time of mankind.

He will show love and mercy to all those who love him and keep His Commandments.

The form of the Covenant has not changed, but the processes involved in atonement for our sin of turning away from God with respect to the Covenantal Relationship has changed and that has occurred probable around three times. There was one form of the process before MT Sinai and before Israel rebelled at Mt Sinai. The form of the process then changed after they rebelled at Mt Sinai for Israel from that time up to when Christ died on the cross. And again, after Christ died on the cross, the form of the atonement process was changed yet again by God.

Daniel 9:24 points to the last changes in the process in the atonement for mankind that God has put into place by the refreshing of the covenantal relationship that He has with mankind and putting in place an atonement process that does not rely on man's ability to be achieved but rather only requires man's acceptance by faith that God's own Son has died for the atonement of all of Mankind's sin once and for all. Now saying that I believe that Jesus is the Son of God and that He has died for the atonement of my sins, does not cut it if I do not set about the renewing of my mind and the putting on of the renewed personhood that God wants for all of mankind that reflects the very heart of God in all that we do.

Has the outcome of the Covenantal Relationship with God changed over time since the creation of Adam? No, it has not.

Can our hearts deceive us that we are following the requirements of the Covenantal relationship with God? Yes, our hearts/minds if they are not renewed and we do not put on the renewed personhood that God has refreshed in us like the original form, then we have allowed ourselves to be deceived and have not let go of the old self at all.

If you look at the Parable of the Judgement of the Nations, then you will see this as the means that the People who Call Jesus Lord, are judged.

Arguing about how this is being achieved and setting up principles and means that we can understand that God probably meant for the latest form of the atonement process just means that we are setting up a newer "Law" base for mankind to live their lives by which we can judge our progress towards the end outcome of a face to face relationship with God. Sadly, The last judgement/separation will be of those who called Jesus Lord between those who renewed their minds and put on the renewed self and those that did not.

How we go about renewing our minds and putting on the renewed personhood of God's mankind is sadly not searched out that much in the Bible that we all read to learn about God and What His terms of salvation are.

Shalom
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Re: Daniel 9:24 Goals, what do they mean?

Postby keithareilly on Wed Apr 26, 2017 3:22 pm

I posted this in another thread but since this is about the meaning of "to finish transgression" I am posting it here as well.

Romans 5:15-17
15But the free gift is not like the transgression. For if by the transgression of the one the many died, much more did the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abound to the many. 16The gift is not like that which came through the one who sinned; for on the one hand the judgment arose from one transgression resulting in condemnation, but on the other hand the free gift arose from many transgressions resulting in justification. 17For if by the transgression of the one, death reigned through the one, much more those who receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.

Daniel's people and their city had "To finish Transgression". I have argued that this means they are to continue sinning and crucify Christ. Many find it hard to believe God would bring in grace through Israel's continuation of sin. But verse 16 above demonstrate that this indeed is what God did.

I think it is important to understand that God chose a people to accomplish these things, even such a sin as to kill his son. Salvation is of the Jews. Just as God raised Pharaoh for his purpose, so God chose a people. the Jews, for this purpose. God put them through a lot so ALL men would be justified.

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Re: Daniel 9:24 Goals, what do they mean?

Postby Sonbeam on Wed May 03, 2017 1:43 pm

Anyway, what I wanted to say to you Keith is that I agree with you about Satan being cast down at the completion of Christ's work on the Cross. That is biblical.

The reason: Christ paid for all sins committed by those of the generation of Adam (all of us at one time) and then cleansed us all for the forgiveness of those sins with His blood. AND also on the Cross, Christ instituted the New Covenant under which those who enter into it have no sin.

Why? because "where there is no law there is no transgression."

Therefore, Satan has nothing now, no ammunition, to accuse any man or any saint with before God.

But aren't nonbelievers (those still of the Adamic generation) "sinning" right now?

Yes. (I previously said No in another post above which is incorrect) BUT Christ paid for those sins, past, present and future of all the offspring of Adam ever to be born (all of us at one time). AND Christ through His blood also obtained forgiveness for all those sins.

Therefore, even as nonbelievers are presently sinning, their sins have already been paid for and have been forgiven by God because of His Son’s sacrifice. Nonbelievers’ sins are covered!

Heb 9:26b. But he has appeared once for all at the culmination of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself.

Heb 10:10 And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.


So as offensive as this is to most believers, nonbelievers are in right standing before God and under the period of grace that our Lord called "the year of the Lord's favor."

This is a period God designed for MEN to have the opportunity to hear the Gospel and become children of the generation of Christ. Individually “the year of the Lord’s favor” lasts an Adamic person’s lifetime. Collectively, this period is going to run out sometime before Christ’s return.

Hard to believe that nonbelievers are under God's grace right now, while it is still called today, right? Yes, but this is what God's grace is all about. And this is the Gospel.

To God be the glory!

sonbeam

PS This is an edited version of one of my previous posts above to correct a mistake I made.
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Re: Daniel 9:24 Goals, what do they mean?

Postby WOODHENOT3 on Wed May 03, 2017 3:49 pm

Sonbeam wrote:Anyway, what I wanted to say to you Keith is that I agree with you about Satan being cast down at the completion of Christ's work on the Cross. That is biblical.

The reason: Christ paid for all sins committed by those of the generation of Adam (all of us at one time) and then cleansed us all for the forgiveness of those sins with His blood. AND also on the Cross, Christ instituted the New Covenant under which those who enter into it have no sin.

Why? because "where there is no law there is no transgression."

Therefore, Satan has nothing now, no ammunition, to accuse any man or any saint with before God.

But aren't nonbelievers (those still of the Adamic generation) "sinning" right now?

Yes. (I previously said No in another post above which is incorrect) BUT Christ paid for those sins, past, present and future of all the offspring of Adam ever to be born (all of us at one time). AND Christ through His blood also obtained forgiveness for all those sins.

Therefore, even as nonbelievers are presently sinning, their sins have already been paid for and have been forgiven by God because of His Son’s sacrifice. Nonbelievers’ sins are covered!

Heb 9:26b. But he has appeared once for all at the culmination of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself.

Heb 10:10 And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.


So as offensive as this is to most believers, nonbelievers are in right standing before God and under the period of grace that our Lord called "the year of the Lord's favor."

This is a period God designed for MEN to have the opportunity to hear the Gospel and become children of the generation of Christ. Individually “the year of the Lord’s favor” lasts an Adamic person’s lifetime. Collectively, this period is going to run out sometime before Christ’s return.

Hard to believe that nonbelievers are under God's grace right now, while it is still called today, right? Yes, but this is what God's grace is all about. And this is the Gospel.

To God be the glory!

sonbeam

PS This is an edited version of one of my previous posts above to correct a mistake I made.


We are all under God's grace, I agree.. I am confused by your statement.... Are you saying that Athiests can inherit the Kingdom of Heaven without believing in Christ? What's the point of Jesus ministry or having disciples?
The statement you made seem incomplete... are you in any way Jewish ?
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Re: Daniel 9:24 Goals, what do they mean?

Postby keithareilly on Wed May 03, 2017 4:58 pm

Sonbeam wrote:Anyway, what I wanted to say to you Keith is that I agree with you about Satan being cast down at the completion of Christ's work on the Cross. That is biblical.

The reason: Christ paid for all sins committed by those of the generation of Adam (all of us at one time) and then cleansed us all for the forgiveness of those sins with His blood. AND also on the Cross, Christ instituted the New Covenant under which those who enter into it have no sin.

Why? because "where there is no law there is no transgression."

Therefore, Satan has nothing now, no ammunition, to accuse any man or any saint with before God.

But aren't nonbelievers (those still of the Adamic generation) "sinning" right now?

Yes. (I previously said No in another post above which is incorrect) BUT Christ paid for those sins, past, present and future of all the offspring of Adam ever to be born (all of us at one time). AND Christ through His blood also obtained forgiveness for all those sins.

Therefore, even as nonbelievers are presently sinning, their sins have already been paid for and have been forgiven by God because of His Son’s sacrifice. Nonbelievers’ sins are covered!

Heb 9:26b. But he has appeared once for all at the culmination of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself.

Heb 10:10 And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.


So as offensive as this is to most believers, nonbelievers are in right standing before God and under the period of grace that our Lord called "the year of the Lord's favor."

This is a period God designed for MEN to have the opportunity to hear the Gospel and become children of the generation of Christ. Individually “the year of the Lord’s favor” lasts an Adamic person’s lifetime. Collectively, this period is going to run out sometime before Christ’s return.

Hard to believe that nonbelievers are under God's grace right now, while it is still called today, right? Yes, but this is what God's grace is all about. And this is the Gospel.

To God be the glory!

sonbeam

PS This is an edited version of one of my previous posts above to correct a mistake I made.


1 Tim 4:10
For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers.

Absolutely, And this is why the Gospel is called the Good News.
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Re: Daniel 9:24 Goals, what do they mean?

Postby keithareilly on Wed May 03, 2017 5:12 pm

Woody wrote,
We are all under God's grace, I agree.. I am confused by your statement.... Are you saying that Athiests can inherit the Kingdom of Heaven without believing in Christ? What's the point of Jesus ministry or having disciples?
The statement you made seem incomplete... are you in any way Jewish ?


1 John 3:17-21
17“For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. 18“He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19“This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil. 20“For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. 21“But he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God.”
1 Tim 4:10
For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers.

Christ is the savior of all men, but especially believers, as we are not judged where as unbelievers have already been judged. They are judged for their unbelief, not for their sin, as Christ died for the sins of all men.

John 8:31-32
31 So Jesus was saying to those Jews who had believed Him, “If you continue in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine; 32 and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free.”
John 18:37
37 Therefore Pilate said to Him, “So You are a king?” Jesus answered, “You say correctly that I am a king. For this I have been born, and for this I have come into the world, to testify to the truth. Everyone who is of the truth hears My voice.”
Jeremiah 23:5
Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.

The point of Jesus' ministry and having disciples is to spread the truth so that men can be free of slavery to sin.
Thus is God the savior "especially of believers". For the unbeliever remains enslaved. As the Gospel is spread, it brings salvation to the believer, and judgement to the unbeliever.
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Re: Daniel 9:24 Goals, what do they mean?

Postby WOODHENOT3 on Wed May 03, 2017 9:46 pm

Exodus 32

31 And Moses returned unto the Lord, and said, Oh, this people have sinned a great sin, and have made them gods of gold.
32 Yet now, if thou wilt forgive their sin--; and if not, blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast written.
33 And the Lord said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.


Romans 8
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

Matt 13
36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.
37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;
38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.



John 3

There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:
2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.
3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

If you're not born again, you will not see the Kingdom of God....

Romans 10
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

If you don't confess Jesus is Lord, you will not inherit the Kingdom of God...

If a non-believer doesn't believe in his heart and confess Jesus is Lord, he is not made unto salvation...
In Christ Always,
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Re: Daniel 9:24 Goals, what do they mean?

Postby Mr Baldy on Thu May 04, 2017 4:39 am

keithareilly wrote:They are judged for their unbelief, not for their sin


Hi Keith,

Isn't "unbelief" sin :humm:
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Re: Daniel 9:24 Goals, what do they mean?

Postby WOODHENOT3 on Thu May 04, 2017 6:58 am

Romans 3:10"As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one."

Romans 6:23 "For the wages of sin is death...."
Ezekiel 18:4 "The soul that sinneth, it shall die".If we pay what we owe as sinners, we must spend an eternity in the lake of fire.

Keith,
None of us is perfect
We are all sinners, we all owe a penalty....
Only Jesus can forgive you for your sins, right?
We have to personally ask Him to forgive us, otherwise how are you forgiven?
Do you believe Jesus is the Son of God? Just wondering because I don't know you...
In Christ Always,
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Re: Daniel 9:24 Goals, what do they mean?

Postby Sonbeam on Thu May 04, 2017 9:30 am

WOODHENOT3 wrote:Romans 3:10"As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one."

Romans 6:23 "For the wages of sin is death...."
Ezekiel 18:4 "The soul that sinneth, it shall die".If we pay what we owe as sinners, we must spend an eternity in the lake of fire.

Keith,
None of us is perfect
We are all sinners, we all owe a penalty....
Only Jesus can forgive you for your sins, right?
We have to personally ask Him to forgive us, otherwise how are you forgiven?
Do you believe Jesus is the Son of God? Just wondering because I don't know you...


WH3,

What you are saying is what we all have been taught to believe is the Gospel, i.e. that we have to ask God for
forgiveness of sins in order for Him to grant forgiveness to us. This is not the Truth.

Forgiveness of sins was granted to all MEN, the offspring of Adam (all of us at one time), by God when Christ said: "It is finished" on the Cross. Lev 16:30

This is the "birth of water" that Christ spoke of to Nicodemus. John 3

However, the process of salvation has two components. The birth of water AND the birth of the Spirit.

Forgiven MEN have to believe in the ONE God has sent, His Son Jesus Christ, in order for MEN to become Children of God.

God then seals that faith in Christ by executing the new birth in the Spirit that Jesus spoke about to Nicodemus. John 3.

No new birth in the Spirit. No salvation. For flesh and blood, MEN, will never enter the kingdom.

Therefore, the urgency exists to proclaim the Good News to forgiven MEN before the period of “the year of the Lord’s favor” runs out – while it is still called Today.

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Re: Daniel 9:24 Goals, what do they mean?

Postby Sonbeam on Thu May 04, 2017 9:57 am

Mr Baldy wrote:
keithareilly wrote:They are judged for their unbelief, not for their sin


Hi Keith,

Isn't "unbelief" sin :humm:


Mr. Baldy,

Great question!

The sins Christ paid for on the Cross were sins committed by Adam and his offspring under the covenant God imposed on
Adam in the garden. When the progenitor, head, pattern for the human race proved to be a sinner, God in His Wisdom condemned all Adam's offspring to death (spiritual) at that time.

Though the punishment/penalty (spiritual death) was not carried out by God until Christ endured that on the Cross.

Rom 5:16
Nor can the gift of God be compared with the result of one man's sin: The judgment followed one sin and brought condemnation, but the gift followed many trespasses and brought justification.

Rom 5:18
Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people, so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.


Unbelief, the rejection of Christ, is something that happens under the New Covenant. MEN who do not have faith in Christ and His Gospel, will suffer spiritual death themselves. There will not be another Redeemer to take the punishment for them. Heb 10:26

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Re: Daniel 9:24 Goals, what do they mean?

Postby WOODHENOT3 on Thu May 04, 2017 1:12 pm

Sonbeam,

You emphasized MEN in all your wordings...why?
Do you think women inherit the Kingdom of God?
Why did Jesus say to one thief on the Cross that he will see paradise and not the other thief who was mocking Him?
Why did Jesus condemned the Pharisees? He called them children of Hell, vipers, snakes, etc....

John 14:6
Jesus said to him, “I am the WAY, the TRUTH, and the LIFE. No one comes to the Father except through Me.
How are you going to get to the Father if you don't believe in Jesus?
In Christ Always,
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Re: Daniel 9:24 Goals, what do they mean?

Postby keithareilly on Thu May 04, 2017 3:23 pm

Woody,

We Christians believe Christ's death made atonement for our sins.
When did this happen? Nearly 2000 years ago.
Atonement for the sins of men, me, you, and every other believer was paid 2000 years ago.
That price is not paid when we believed, but, when Christ was crucified.
Christ made atonement for my sin before I was born, before I believed.
Therefore, my sins were forgiven before I was born, before I believed.
Yet, I did not experience salvation until after I believed.

1 Tim 4:10
For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers.

Thus does the statement above say, God is the Savior of all men, especially of believers.

My belief does not add my name to the book.

Keith
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Re: Daniel 9:24 Goals, what do they mean?

Postby keithareilly on Thu May 04, 2017 3:37 pm

Mr Baldy wrote:
keithareilly wrote:They are judged for their unbelief, not for their sin


Hi Keith,

Isn't "unbelief" sin :humm:


1 John 3:17-21
17“For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. 18“He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19“This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil. 20“For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. 21“But he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God.”

No, unbelief is the evidence of having already been judged.

Edited to add...

Romans 10:13-17
13for “WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED.” 14How then will they call on Him in whom they have not believed? How will they believe in Him whom they have not heard? And how will they hear without a preacher? 15How will they preach unless they are sent? Just as it is written, “HOW BEAUTIFUL ARE THE FEET OF THOSE WHO BRING GOOD NEWS OF GOOD THINGS!” 16However, they did not all heed the good news; for Isaiah says, “LORD, WHO HAS BELIEVED OUR REPORT?” 17So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.

Christ died for all men, even those who do not believe. But that unbelief is the judgement; they can escape judgement if they believe.
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Re: Daniel 9:24 Goals, what do they mean?

Postby shorttribber on Thu May 04, 2017 4:17 pm

keithareilly wrote:Christ died for all men, even those who do not believe. But that unbelief is the judgement; they can escape judgement if they believe.


Unbelief is the Judgment? Not sure I understand what you're saying. Do you think all will be saved eventually...universalism?
The Wisest men have changed their Counsels and Resolves upon second thoughts, much more upon experience, and approaching evils not at first discovered. Rev. Herbert Croft, 1675

Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counsellors there is safety.

Find seven years of tribulation plainly stated in the Bible.
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Re: Daniel 9:24 Goals, what do they mean?

Postby keithareilly on Thu May 04, 2017 5:06 pm

shorttribber wrote:
keithareilly wrote:Christ died for all men, even those who do not believe. But that unbelief is the judgement; they can escape judgement if they believe.


Unbelief is the Judgment? Not sure I understand what you're saying. Do you think all will be saved eventually...universalism?


1 John 3:18 (partial)
"he who does not believe has been judged already,"
Very clearly, this phrase states unbelievers have already been judged, not still under trial, judgement has already been passed, not yet sentenced, but judgement passed.

If a man hears the word but does not believe and accept Christ until later in life, is this not evidence of God's grace even on the unbeliever?

God is very rich in mercy, do not give up on people, even if they do not yet believe. But do not deceive yourself and think maybe they will be saved after they die. They have already been judged so work to convince them of the truth Christ came to the world to share.
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Re: Daniel 9:24 Goals, what do they mean?

Postby shorttribber on Thu May 04, 2017 6:04 pm

Keith,
It seems that definitions of words are unclear that you are using. is there a place where the scripture uses the word "sentenced" in the place of "Judgment". Maybe there is, in some modern version...I just don't know.

This whole matter is somewhat confusing to me. I think i'll just believe as I do, and let the Lord reveal the truth about it to me at another time....meanwhile,, i'll continue to share the gospel as I know it, and hope people believe on Christ.

I still sin now, and I will hope for the time that I no longer do, and everyone else no longer does either.
The Wisest men have changed their Counsels and Resolves upon second thoughts, much more upon experience, and approaching evils not at first discovered. Rev. Herbert Croft, 1675

Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counsellors there is safety.

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Re: Daniel 9:24 Goals, what do they mean?

Postby keithareilly on Fri May 05, 2017 5:13 am

John 3:18
18“He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Romans 5:16
16 The gift is not like that which came through the one who sinned; for on the one hand the judgment arose from one transgression resulting in condemnation, but on the other hand the free gift arose from many transgressions resulting in justification.

One view is the judgement in John 3:16 and Romans 5:16 are the same judgement and that
we believers escape this judgement brought in through Adam through Christ.
However, there is more.

Romans 5:18
18 So then as through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men, even so through one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life to all men.

Notice Christs righteousness results in justification for "all men" not just we believers.
How can this be if only we believers receive justification?
John 3:10
19“This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil.

It is not so, All men receive justification through Christ. Those who do not believe reject that justification refusing to come into the light because they love darkness. It is now their own choice that results in their own judgement; it is no longer Adam's sin that results in their judgement. The two judgement of John 3:18 and Romans 5:16 are distinctly different; they are not the same judgement.
keithareilly
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Re: Daniel 9:24 Goals, what do they mean?

Postby WOODHENOT3 on Fri May 05, 2017 6:16 am

Keith,
What's the point of bringing people to Christ if everyone is going to see the light?
How can anyone enter the Kingdom of Heaven without the Holy Spirit?
Who are the Tares that Jesus mentioned being thrown into the Lake of Fire?
I would not want to be a weed on Judgment Day....
In Christ Always,
Woody
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Re: Daniel 9:24 Goals, what do they mean?

Postby keithareilly on Fri May 05, 2017 6:24 am

WOODHENOT3 wrote:Keith,
What's the point of bringing people to Christ if everyone is going to see the light?
How can anyone enter the Kingdom of Heaven without the Holy Spirit?
Who are the Tares that Jesus mentioned being thrown into the Lake of Fire?
I would not want to be a weed on Judgment Day....


Woody, I am not sure why what I am saying is prompting these questions.

Did you not read this part ?
Those who do not believe reject that [Christ's] justification[,] refusing to come into the light because they love darkness. It is now their own choice that results in their own judgement; it is no longer Adam's sin that results in their judgement.


Christ did away with the judgement brought on through Adam. No man is under that anymore.
Christ's gift is available to all men. But some reject Christ because they love darkness thus bringing a new judgement upon themselves.
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Re: Daniel 9:24 Goals, what do they mean?

Postby Sonbeam on Fri May 05, 2017 1:15 pm

WOODHENOT3 wrote:
Sonbeam wrote:Anyway, what I wanted to say to you Keith is that I agree with you about Satan being cast down at the completion of Christ's work on the Cross. That is biblical.

The reason: Christ paid for all sins committed by those of the generation of Adam (all of us at one time) and then cleansed us all for the forgiveness of those sins with His blood. AND also on the Cross, Christ instituted the New Covenant under which those who enter into it have no sin.

Why? because "where there is no law there is no transgression."

Therefore, Satan has nothing now, no ammunition, to accuse any man or any saint with before God.

But aren't nonbelievers (those still of the Adamic generation) "sinning" right now?

Yes. (I previously said No in another post above which is incorrect) BUT Christ paid for those sins, past, present and future of all the offspring of Adam ever to be born (all of us at one time). AND Christ through His blood also obtained forgiveness for all those sins.

Therefore, even as nonbelievers are presently sinning, their sins have already been paid for and have been forgiven by God because of His Son’s sacrifice. Nonbelievers’ sins are covered!

Heb 9:26b. But he has appeared once for all at the culmination of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself.

Heb 10:10 And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.


So as offensive as this is to most believers, nonbelievers are in right standing before God and under the period of grace that our Lord called "the year of the Lord's favor."

This is a period God designed for MEN to have the opportunity to hear the Gospel and become children of the generation of Christ. Individually “the year of the Lord’s favor” lasts an Adamic person’s lifetime. Collectively, this period is going to run out sometime before Christ’s return.

Hard to believe that nonbelievers are under God's grace right now, while it is still called today, right? Yes, but this is what God's grace is all about. And this is the Gospel.

To God be the glory!

sonbeam

PS This is an edited version of one of my previous posts above to correct a mistake I made.


We are all under God's grace, I agree.. I am confused by your statement.... Are you saying that Athiests can inherit the Kingdom of Heaven without believing in Christ?


No Woody. Nonbelievers must believe in Christ and be born again of His Spirit to inherit the kingdom.


The statement you made seem incomplete... are you in any way Jewish ?


No I am not.

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Re: Daniel 9:24 Goals, what do they mean?

Postby Sonbeam on Fri May 05, 2017 1:18 pm

WOODHENOT3 wrote:Sonbeam,

You emphasized MEN in all your wordings...why?



Because it is shorter than “mankind.” :grin:

I use the term "MEN" to show the distinction between the offspring (both men and women) of the generation of Adam and the children of God who are of the generation of Christ.

As children of God we are new creations in Christ and no longer MEN or offspring of Adam. The body of flesh no longer defines who we are. It is only a vestige or remnant of what we once were.

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