Abomination that Makes Desolate

[Mrs. B]

Abomination of Desolation......

Abomination...or Abominable...to regard with extreme repugnance: loathe to turn aside to keep away from in scorn: Reject...hate of
Desolation...1 devoid of inhabitants and visitors: deserted 2..Forsaken lonely..
Desolate...deprive of inhabitants, to lay waste, forsake, to make wretched...
the condition of being desolated...

When our sins are full....

Jesus said, when you see the Abomination spoken of by Daniel the Prophet...Stand in the Holy Place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

Now....this can be......when the a/c stands in Jerusalem,
Or....this could be when the Body of Christ, the Church, falls away from the Truth and is preaching another Gospel in stead of Jesus as Lord....Our Bodies Paul writes are the Temple of the Holy Ghost.....Christ in you the hope of Glory...
Jesus said, if it were possible even the very elect would be deceived.......Does Jesus the Christ live in you....Are you lead by His Holy Spirit.....or do you follow the doctoron of man?
Is the Abomination that makes desolate, is it in the Present Church.....? it this the great deception we are fowlling false teaching and a false Christ? are we being deceived?
We each have to examine our own hearts and be assured that Jesus is Our Lord, and we are following Him......
the church does not saves, knowledge of the word does not save......Only a Personnel Relation with Jesus saves

The Abomination that Makes Desolate.....
When our sins are full
And World Judgment begins at Jerusalem......Jesus said get out of Jerusalem
Luke 21:20...and when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the Desolation thereof is nigh..
22....For these be the days of Vengeance, that ALL things which are written may be fulfilled...
24b.and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, Until the Times of the Gentiles be fulfilled...


Mrs. B

[Mrs. B]

Abomination that Makes Desolate.....

Babylon is a world system....it begin with Nimrod in Genises.....
The curse was upon the world....and men had to survive with out God...so Nimrod begin to capture men and made slaves of them and begin to build Buildings.......or cities....so man begin to work a system that they could servive.....Even Babel and God destroyed this.....and changed man's language.....and men begin to populate the whole world....

This system of Babylon is all through the Bible...it is the world systems....this is how man survives without God...
It is a world system to servive....it is Not the Kingdom of God.....Jesus came Preaching the Gospel, the Good News...The Kingdom of God is at hand.....You Must be Born Again.....you cannot join the Kingdom....It is a New Birth....This Good News is to be Preached to every Nation......Go into the World and Preach this Good News....that Your sins are for given and you can be born again....you can begin again in a New Life....the God life.....and you have Eternal Promises...This is the Good News....That God Promised a Seed....and Jesus is the Seed....and when you hear this word and Believe it with all your Heart...You are born again and Have God as your Heavenly Father....We are translated in to the invisible Kingdom of God.....we are in this world but not of this world

Jerm. 50:51...Though Babylon should mount up to heaven, and though she should fortify the height of her strength, ye from me shall Spoiler come unto her, saith the Lord...
Spoilers?

World Judgment begins at Jerusalem....
And the world Babylon System also is destroyed....

Mrs. B

[Mrs. B]

Abomination that Makes Desolate....

All the Prophets foretell about Jesus and His coming.....also they fortale the end time judgment and How God is going to have the Sabbath or the last 1000 years....Where Jesus will rule and reign on this earth...
The Earth will be like it was when God First Created....This present World will be destroyed...like the flood...but this time by fire....a cleansing.....

The distruction of Babylon.....the World System.....and the Great City
Jeremiah 49:21....The earth is MOVED.....at the Noise of their Fall, at the cry the Noise thereof was heard in the Weedy sea, or red sea
Jerm. 50:23....How is the hammer of the whole earath cut asunder and broken! How is Babylon become a desolation among the nations.
Jerm. 50:46...At the Noise of the Taking of Babylon, the earth is Moved, and the cry is heard among the nations...
Jerm. 51:28.....Prepare against her the nations with the Kings of the Medes, the captains thereof and all the rulers thereof, and all the land of his dominion...
29...And the land shall tremble and sorrow: for every purpose of the Lord shall be Performed Against Babylon, to make the land of Babylon a Desolation without an inhabitant......WITHOUT AN INHABITANT...
30....The Mighty men of Babylon have forborne to fight...they have remained in Their Holds: their might hath failed; they became as women: they have burned her dwellingplaces; her bars are broken....

ONE DAY.....ONE HOUR.....

Rev. 18:16....And saying, Alas, alas, that Great City, that was clothed in fine linen, and purple, and scarlet, and decked with gold, and precious stone and pearls....!
8...Therefore shall her plagues come IN ONE DAY, death and mourning, and famine: and she shall be utterly Burned with Fire for Strong is the Lord God who judgeth her...
10...Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying ALAS, ALAS, that Great City Babylon, that Mighty City! for IN ONE HOUR is Thy Judgment Come...
17....FOR IN ONE HOUR, so great riches come to nought
19b...for in ONE HOUR IS SHE DESOLATE...

This outlilnes a plan....for a day and an hour...

The Abomination that Maketh Desolate.....
World Judgment begins at Jerusalem....
Jesus says...
Rev. 18:4...And I heard another voice from heaven, saying Come Out of Her, My People, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues...
5...For Her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities....
8...Therefore shall her plagues come in One Day, death and mourning, and famine; nd she shall be utterly burned with fire for strong is the Lord God who judgeth....
10,,,That great City Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come.....

MRS. B

[Exit40]

H Mrs. B

Rev. 18:4...And I heard another voice from heaven, saying Come Out of Her, My People, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues...

I take great comfort in these words, that if I am still here when it happens Our Father will tell us to come out of her. If that be by receiving direct communication or rapture we can be saved. But, as you have said, we have to listen for and obey the Word of God, and His Voice when He speaks to us. We have to be prepared to drop everything we value in our material lives, and go. If we believe we are among the called and chosen, we must obey, and not look back. As you have said.

God Bless You

David

[drdos]

H Mrs. B

Rev. 18:4...And I heard another voice from heaven, saying Come Out of Her, My People, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues...

I take great comfort in these words, that if I am still here when it happens Our Father will tell us to come out of her. If that be by receiving direct communication or rapture we can be saved. But, as you have said, we have to listen for and obey the Word of God, and His Voice when He speaks to us. We have to be prepared to drop everything we value in our material lives, and go. If we believe we are among the called and chosen, we must obey, and not look back. As you have said.

God Bless You

David

AWESOME reminder/promise from scripture! Thanks Brother I needed this today..

[Resurrection Torchlight]

Mrs. B

I have trouble viewing the AOD as the Body of Christ falling away,

First of all the Lord says the following:

Matthew 24:15-16
15 “Therefore when you see the abomination of desolation which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand),
16 then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains.

This abomination is the one spoken of by the prophet Daniel, what does Daniel say?

Daniel 9:27
27 “And he will make a firm covenant with the many for one week, but in the middle of the week he will put a stop to sacrifice and grain offering; and on the wing of abominations will come one who makes desolate, even until a complete destruction, one that is decreed, is poured out on the one who makes desolate.”

Daniel 11:31-45
31 “Forces from him will arise, desecrate the sanctuary fortress, and do away with the regular sacrifice. And they will set up the abomination of desolation.

The abomination is caused by a person, it is someone that causes desolation, it is something that is set up that desecrates the sanctuary. It stands in the holy place where it should not be. It is something that is an obvious sign to those who are in Judea that they will recognize and will cause them to flee. The church falling away would not be a sign to those living in Judea (Jews), it would also not be an easily discernible sign that would cause them to take flight.

Paul tells us what will happen, yes apostasy does come, this apostasy comes before the man of lawlessness is revealed:

2 Thessalonians 2:2-4
2 that you not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come.
3 Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,
4 who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God.

2 Thessalonians 2:8-12
8 Then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming;
9 that is, the one whose coming is in accord with the activity of Satan, with all power and signs and false wonders,
10 and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved.
11 For this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false,
12 in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness.

Revelation 13:11-15
11 Then I saw another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb and he spoke as a dragon.
12 He exercises all the authority of the first beast in his presence. And he makes the earth and those who dwell in it to worship the first beast, whose fatal wound was healed.
13 He performs great signs, so that he even makes fire come down out of heaven to the earth in the presence of men.
14 And he deceives those who dwell on the earth because of the signs which it was given him to perform in the presence of the beast, telling those who dwell on the earth to make an image to the beast who had the wound of the sword and has come to life.
15 And it was given to him to give breath to the image of the beast, so that the image of the beast would even speak and cause as many as do not worship the image of the beast to be killed.

In my opinion the more obvious interpretation would be the that the antichrist seats himself in the temple calling himself God and/or his image is set up in the temple. Revelation does say that he will be worshiped, so the falling away from the truth leads to this worship. though Daniel indicates that the saints will not fall away, but will lead many to understanding, some will die as martyrs and be taken captive:

Daniel 11:32-36
32 “By smooth words he will turn to godlessness those who act wickedly toward the covenant, but the people who know their God will display strength and take action.
33 “Those who have insight among the people will give understanding to the many; yet they will fall by sword and by flame, by captivity and by plunder for many days.
34 “Now when they fall they will be granted a little help, and many will join with them in hypocrisy.
35 “Some of those who have insight will fall, in order to refine, purge and make them pure until the end time; because it is still to come at the appointed time.
36 “Then the king will do as he pleases, and he will exalt and magnify himself above every god and will speak monstrous things against the God of gods; and he will prosper until the indignation is finished, for that which is decreed will be done.

Though I agree that there will be a falling away from the truth I just cannot see the church/body of Christ as being the AOD.

RT

[Tevye]

You know RT that during the Great Tribulation
(when the abomination happens)
there will be so many people
who will not understand
what is going on
nearly as well as you have
so wonderfully described the scriptures.
Are you sure that the Lord hasn't
a mission for you in those days?
I have a feeling with your bold spirit
that Yeshua has a special mission
just for for you in the days ahead.

[Resurrection Torchlight]

You know RT that during the Great Tribulation
(when the abomination happens)
there will be so many people
who will not understand
what is going on
nearly as well as you have
so wonderfully described the scriptures.
Are you sure that the Lord hasn't
a mission for you in those days?
I have a feeling with your bold spirit
that Yeshua has a special mission
just for for you in the days ahead.

Tevye, thank you for the kind words. Whatever lies ahead, whether trial or tribulation I want to be a light for Jesus and His word. I have often asked the Lord why he has given me the burden to study prophecy, I don't have an answer, but I do love His word, and if I could I would spend more time in it. I would like to believe that we all have a special mission, a certain gift or talent to be employed at any given time or place so that we might touch a life and influence them toward a relationship with Jesus or to help others who already do to grow in that relationship. I would like to believe that I am bold as you say, but it's so much easier to be bold here in an online forum than it is in person, So I pray for boldness in my daily walk in order that those the Lord has entrusted to me will see Jesus in me. I'm a work in progress as we all are.

God bless you

RT

[Mrs. B]

The Abomination that makes Desolate......

What is the Abomination that makes Desolate??

When the sins of the church are full. This is an Abomination to God. He sent Jesus to save the world but we rather follow false ideas. we rather belileve false doctrine.
Jesus said, You Must be Born Again. We say, Join the church. we say be good....we say be a good church member. we believe falsely, we have accepted the doctrine of man and forsaken the doctrine or teaching of the bible, O Jesus...
Jesus said...depart from me ye workers of iniquity, I never Knew You. We follow false doctrine...
There is only one WAY....
today every man is right in his own eyes.
Jesus said, You Must be born Again.......Christianity is Christ in You. It is a New Birth. You are Born Again by the Word and the Holy Spirit. that is why, Jesus said, Depart from me, I never Knew You...
Now, only you know if you are born again. church mimbership is not going to get it. Being a good person is not going to get it. Having all knowledge is not going to get it..You Must be Born Again. Jesus said, Marvel not that I say unto you, You must be born again. Born of the Water and of the Spirit.
There is only One Spirit. It is One, the Holy Spirit and the Word Agree
That is why when we are born again of God, we Agree
We must all line up with what the word says.....even if you do not understand, you must believe and in time the understanding will come
I we believe that which is not true, we will never see the truth. I am saved because of Jesus.

To know about Jesus is not enough. you must KNOW Him. Jesus said, depart from me ye workers of iniquity,I never knew you....we must have a personnel relationship with Him.. we do not try to please others, we try to please Him. this is how we get to Know Him by obeying Him...you may not be popular, but neither was He,Jesus...He was hated because He is Truth. and men do not like truth...
The Devil is a deceiver...he will deceive us if we do not hunger for truth....
This is in a way the Abomination of Desolation...the Falling Away from the Truth..we follow another Christ, another Jesus...

MrsB

[Resurrection Torchlight]

"We"???

Personally I don't want any part of that "we", but I understand what you are saying Mrs. B. The local church is losing its way, but the universal church who is the true body of Christ hasn't. That is the "we" I am part of. And yes apostasy within the local church does cause spiritual desolation. Sadly, you are right on that count, though I still do not believe that is the AOD spoken of by the prophet Daniel. But it is sad- the state of our churches, not only here in the US but around the world.

To know about Jesus is not enough. you must KNOW Him. Jesus said, depart from me ye workers of iniquity,I never knew you....we must have a personnel relationship with Him.. we do not try to please others, we try to please Him. this is how we get to Know Him by obeying Him...you may not be popular, but neither was He,Jesus...He was hated because He is Truth. and men do not like truth...

I couldn't agree with you more- well said!

RT

[Resurrection Torchlight]

Ezekiel 11:15-21
15 “Son of man, your brothers, your relatives, your fellow exiles and the whole house of Israel, all of them, are those to whom the inhabitants of Jerusalem have said, ‘Go far from the Lord; this land has been given us as a possession.’
16 “Therefore say, ‘Thus says the Lord God, “Though I had removed them far away among the nations and though I had scattered them among the countries, yet I was a sanctuary for them a little while in the countries where they had gone.” ’
17 “Therefore say, ‘Thus says the Lord God, “I will gather you from the peoples and assemble you out of the countries among which you have been scattered, and I will give you the land of Israel.” ’
18 “When they come there, they will remove all its detestable things and all its abominations from it.
19 “And I will give them one heart, and put a new spirit within them. And I will take the heart of stone out of their flesh and give them a heart of flesh,
20 that they may walk in My statutes and keep My ordinances and do them. Then they will be My people, and I shall be their God.
21 “But as for those whose hearts go after their detestable things and abominations, I will bring their conduct down on their heads,” declares the Lord God.

Just came across this passage , might it pertain to the topic of this thread?

RT

[slick]

Hello Mrs B , RT and Gang,

I dont post much here anymore but I do check in and read the posts almost daily.this thread has caught my interest and I felt that perhaps I could add some worthwhile input.

The AOD is truly a much more intricate subject than sometimes given credit.It is really the KEY piece in unlocking the surety of entrance into of the 70th week. There is great confusion and misunderstanding of nearly all aspects of this important issue,TIMING,PLACE,PEOPLE....this leads to a great deal of debate among believers.

First,lets look at one of the key Passages in the NT dealing with this subject. Olivet Discourse Matthew 24....Luke 21...Mark 13

MARK 13:14
"BUT WHEN YOU SEE THE ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION STANDING WHERE IT SHOULD NOT (LET THE READER UNDERSTAND),THEN LET THOSE WHO ARE IN JUDEA FLEE TO THE MOUNTAINS..."

MATTHEW 24:15
"THEREFORE,WHEN YOU SEE THE ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION, WHICH WAS SPOKEN OF BY DANIEL THE PROPHET,STANDING IN THE HOLY PLACE (LET THE READER UNDERSTAND)..."

LUKE 21:20
"BUT WHEN YOU SEE JERUSALEM SURROUNDED BY ARMIES,THEN RECOGNIZE THAT HER DESOLATION IS AT HAND...."

It is commonly held that The Matthew And Mark account of this event are describing the 70th week but the Luke account is describing 70 AD....There is reason to disagree with this idea by closely examining scripture,but I am not going to take the time in this post to get into that, I am simply going to state that from my studies they
are all describing the same TIME and the same EVENT.... but different aspects....

An Understanding of the placement in scripture lends some help in unlocking the meaning...MARK...MATTHEW...LUKE, are the order that the Events were orginally recorderd as led by the HS...notice Marks account is very consise and to the point...Matthew gives some additional clues.... "WHICH WAS SPOKEN OF BY DANIEL THE PROPHET" and "STANDING IN THE HOLY PLACE.." finally Lukes account deals with some of the specifics...." JERUSALEM SURROUNDED BY ARMIES" AND "HER DESOLATION ".... let me state it slightly different...Mark makes us aware of the event,Matthew deals with the Main Person, Luke descibes The Area and The Players.....

This is a style of writing that is found through out Prophetic passages in Scripture I Call "COMPOUND PROPHECY" it is a retelling of the same event each time adding important details for clarification or revealing a specific event within a noted time frame.

Sevral areas of confusion can arise when not looking at the event within both the collective context (total scriptural )and within the immediate context in which it is found.

Lets disect Matthews Account:

MATTHEW 24:15

"THEREFORE,WHEN YOU SEE THE ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION WHICH WAS SPOKEN OF THROUGH DANIEL THE PROPHET,STANDING IN THE HOLY PLACE (LET THE READER UNDERSTAND),"

Here we see The AOD as An Entity or Person This can be seen by looking back at the references found in Daniel as Jesus suggests.....the important issue is WHAT AND WHERE IS "THE HOLY PLACE".......and more importantly can it be determined through the study of Scripture? Many or Most Christians and Teachers that I Have encountered would be quick to claim that the Holy Place refers to "THE TEMPLE" I dont believe that is the case and will once again not take the time to get into the total ramifications of that issue, except for one detail.......the Immediate context of the Passage itself suggests That I am correct.... look at the opening of the passage here in Matthew.

MATTHEW 24:1-2

"AND JESUS CAME OUT FROM THE TEMPLE AND WAS GOING AWAY WHEN HIS DISCIPLES CAME UP TO POINT OUT THE TEMPLE BUILDING TO HIM. AND HE ANSWERED AND SAID TO THEM, "DO YOU NOT SEE ALL THESE THINGS, TRULY I SAY TO YOU,NOT ONE STONE HERE SHALL BE LEFT UPON ANOTHER,WHICH WILL NOT BE TORN DOWN."

Jesus just tells them that the TEMPLE is going to be destroyed and torn down......it seems rather interestng to me that though the disciples have just been told that their entire system of worship was going to be disrupted and their way of life was going to be turned upside down, that First their question doesnt turn toward the reconstruction of the Temple...and second just a short while JESUS would say "STANDING IN THE HOLY PLACE" as a reference to a Temple which HE just clearly stated would be utterly destroyed, with no mention or details of reconstruction.

The silence on the SUBJECT of the rebuilt TEMPLE is thunderously loud! many people and scholors await the rebuilding of The Temple as the sure sign of end-times......and believe the (AOD) person will stand in it....this is an ASSUMPTION NOT supported with any CLEAR BIBLICAL reference.and that seems to me to be the exact reason why it will not be so.

In II Thessalonian 2 we see a detailed snapsot of how this event will look and be carried out and it is this point of reference that seems to be the strongest association to a Temple but in reality only on the surface.

II Thessalonians 2:3-4

"LET NO ONE IN ANY WAY DECEIVE YOU,FOR IT (the day of the lord) WILL NOT COME UNLESS THE APOSTATSY COMES FIRST,AND THE MAN OF LAWLESSNESS IS REVEALED, THE SON OF DESTRUCTION (desolation),WHO OPPOSES AND EXALTS HIMSELF ABOVE EVERY SO-CALLED god OR OBJECT OF WORSHIP, SO THAT HE TAKES HIS SEAT IN THE TEMPLE OF GOD,DISPLAYING HIMSELF AS BEING GOD."

Paul Here is drawing his reference from Daniels account of the eschatological AOD and bringing into focus both the AOD Person (SON OF DESTRUCTION) and event (WHO OPPOSES AND EXALTS HIMSELF ABOVE EVERY SO-CALLED GOD OR OBJECT OF WORSHIP). the focus of the passage is NOT WHERE the EVENT occurs but by WHOM and WHO it concerns. In a side issue this passage also does not indicate WHEN (as to the 70th week) the aod event occurs!

We see in II Thessalonians two places where the word "REVEALED" is used though often confused as being a repeat of events are two separate events and meanings....Our focus will be on the first reference as it is the one dealing specifically with the AOD.

Grammatical construction in the First couple of verses in Chapter 2 are understood as being linked together in both event and proximity I.E "THE COMING OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST AND OUR GATHERING TOGETHER TO HIM.." the word COMING is the Greek word PAROUSIA and Gathering is EPISUNAGOGE ( a complete gathering) or total assembly.. and is a picture of the RAPTURE/RESCUE of the saints from the events that Paul is about to describe that occur due to the AOD.

The grammatical construction or coupling of integrated events in proximity does not end there but is also used in the next couple of verses I.E." THE APOSTASY COMES FIRST AND THE MAN OF LAWLESSNESS IS REVEALED..." just like there is only a short time separating the first two events the same is true in conjunction with these two.....though it must be understood that in order for the first event "THE APOSTASY" to have occured in this manner there would have to be a continuous or ongoing process that would have been effectual in the success of the AOD person.

So The event including the process leading up to "The Apostasy" will look something like this..." THE BODY OF CHRIST WILL BE INFILTERATED WITH FALSE TEACHERS AND HERETICL TEACHING THAT WILL BECOME INCREDIBLY WIDESPREAD, CONFUSION ,DEBATE, DISAGREEMNT WILL INCREASINGLY DIVIDE CHURCHES AND TEACHERS SO THAT THE GENERAL POPULATION WILL BECOME TOTALLY DISILLUSIONED WITH RELIGION IN THE TRADITIONAL SENSE AND BEGIN TO SEEK AFTER THEIR OWN FORM OF RELIGIOUS EXPERIENCE CREATING A UNIVERSAL TOLERANCE TO SELF EXPERIENCE AND METHOD OF WORSHIP, ALL THE WHILE CAUSING THOSE THAT HOLD TO BIBLICAL TRUTH TO LOOK LIKE FANATICS AND INTOLERANT TO PROGRESSIVE IDEALS AND FORMS OF GODLINESS. DETERMINING THE TRUTH FROM ERROR AND FAITHFUL BELIEVERS TO THOSE THAT HAVE FALLEN INTO COMPLEAT HERESY WILL BE NEARLY IMPOSSIBLE. THE NEW RELIGIONISTS WILL CONTINUE TO PROSPER AND BIBLICAL ADHERENTS WILL CONTINUE TO HAVE THEIR VOICES SNUFFED AND STIFFLED. AND A PERSON/TEACHER WILL ARISE WITH AUTHORITY AND CONVICTION THAT WILL MAKE CLAIMS AND DEMONSTRATE POWERFUL ABILITIES AND WILL BRING TOGETHER AS ONE THOSE THAT HAVE FALLEN AWAY AND A DIRECT ASSULT ON GOD HIMSELF WILL OCCUR IN THE HEARTS OF THOSE THAT ALLIGNED WITH THIS NEW PERSON ON THE SCENE AND A SEVERE ATTACK WILL COME ABOUT TO ANYONE NOT PUTTING THEIR ALLEGIENCE WITH HIM. AND AFTER A SHORT TIME OF THAT JESUS HIMSELF WILL INTERVIEN........

this scenario can be validated by looking at many other prophetic references I Timothy II Peter Revelation etc....and clearly describes the time in which we are living today.....so though we dont know exactly what The AOD event will be or in what manner it will be carried out or where exactly it will occur.we can know WHO will bring it about and What the event is and Who it will effect. in saying that I strongly allign with the description that MRS B posted and not the mass consenus ,Rebuilt Temple. I also believe that the exegetical evidence supports this.

In Closing I would suggest that The specific place is less important than the Person and ability He has to carry it out and those who will be involved on both sides of the spectrum and that Scriptures details support this.

GOD-BLESS,
THE BATTLE RAGES TIL THE LION SOON ROARS!,
Clarence

[Abiding in His Word]

Thank you for your post, Clarence. Certainly a lot to consider. This particular observation stood out to me:

DETERMINING THE TRUTH FROM ERROR AND FAITHFUL BELIEVERS TO THOSE THAT HAVE FALLEN INTO COMPLEAT HERESY WILL BE NEARLY IMPOSSIBLE.

I concur that we are almost there as words seem to have lost their meaning and are so twisted by many that it's nearly impossible to clarify the agenda behind them. The additions to and subtractions from the Word are truly amazing and bringing them to the forefront seems to accomplish nothing but to come across as confrontational.

I have the "rebuilt temple" understanding as no one has ever satisfactorily explained the temple of Ezekiel with it's very explicit, specific dimensions. Is this the Millennial temple? Anyone?

[slick]

Thank you for your post, Clarence. Certainly a lot to consider. This particular observation stood out to me:

DETERMINING THE TRUTH FROM ERROR AND FAITHFUL BELIEVERS TO THOSE THAT HAVE FALLEN INTO COMPLEAT HERESY WILL BE NEARLY IMPOSSIBLE.

I concur that we are almost there as words seem to have lost their meaning and are so twisted by many that it's nearly impossible to clarify the agenda behind them. The additions to and subtractions from the Word are truly amazing and bringing them to the forefront seems to accomplish nothing but to come across as confrontational.

I have the "rebuilt temple" understanding as no one has ever satisfactorily explained the temple of Ezekiel with it's very explicit, specific dimensions. Is this the Millennial temple? Anyone?

Hello Abiding,

There are both the Ezekiel account and the account in Zechariah where people flock to Jerusalem to celebrate the feast of Booths that keeps me open to at least the possibility of a Temple.....However the textual evidence seems to indicate that IE the Ezekiel account is more in line with a heavenly account or perhaps an allagorical account of how Jerusalem has been divided among the National scene. I am less concerned about Zechariah as the Feast of Booths is not a Temple ceremony but I must admit the Ezekiel Temple presents difficult passage to skirt around. so I do hold to the possibility of a rebuilt temple, however I maintain that IT IS NOT neccessasary for any of the events including the AOD to occur. and that the wording in the NT texts does not implicate by necessity a rebuilt temple. Furthermore In Revelation 21 John specifically notes that there IS NO TEMPLE therby indicating if some sort of rebuilt te
mple had been constructed it had once again been destroyed to which once again the silence of scripture is deafening.so to me it is better to understand scripture with the weight of scripture rather than the minority, and simply conclude that any particular issue that seems as a contradictory concept should be catagorized as simply not understood.

GOD-BLESS,
THE BATTLE RAGES TIL THE LION SOON ROARS!

Clarence

[Abiding in His Word]

Thanks again, Clarence and once more I agree. Ezekiel's temple certainly does present a problem but one that utilizes 8? (I think) chapters with such specifics does deserve some consideration somewhere in the scriptural timeline.

[shorttribber]

Thanks again, Clarence and once more I agree. Ezekiel's temple certainly does present a problem but one that utilizes 8? (I think) chapters with such specifics does deserve some consideration somewhere in the scriptural timeline.

Ezk 43:
10 Thou son of man, shew the house to the house of Israel, .......that ........they may be ashamed of their iniquities: and let them measure the pattern.

11 And........ if.......... they be ashamed of all that they have done, shew them the form of the house, and the fashion thereof, and the goings out thereof, and the comings in thereof, and all the forms thereof, and all the ordinances thereof, and all the forms thereof, and all the laws thereof: and write [it] in their sight, ........that ......they may keep the whole form thereof, and all the ordinances thereof, .............and do them.


They "were not ashamed", God is not obligated to have this temple EVER built......................We are the temple now.

All patterns of the physical temple, be it 8 chapters or twenty chapters is null and void.....God is under no obligation.

[Abiding in His Word]

All patterns of the physical temple, be it 8 chapters or twenty chapters is null and void....

If we can simply discount 8 chapters of scripture pertaining to a temple, what other chapters might be "null and void" and on what basis are they null and void?

Is God not obligated to fulfill His Word spoken by a prophet? How can this be?

[shorttribber]

All patterns of the physical temple, be it 8 chapters or twenty chapters is null and void....

If we can simply discount 8 chapters of scripture pertaining to a temple, what other chapters might be "null and void" and on what basis are they null and void?

Is God not obligated to fulfill His Word spoken by a prophet? How can this be?

because Israel did not fulfill there portion....it was a conditional prophecy, Israel did not meet the condition, repeatedly, to the point that they finally crucified their own Messiah.

Matthew 23:
34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and [some] of them ye shall kill and crucify; and [some] of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute [them] from city to city:

35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.

36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.

37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, [thou] that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under [her] wings,......................................... and ye would not!

38 Behold, .................your house................ is left unto you desolate.

[Abiding in His Word]

because Israel did not fulfill there portion....it was a conditional prophecy, Israel did not meet the condition

Hello shorttribber,

I see nothing in Ezekiel that states the temple in chapters 40-48 is conditional. In fact, in chapter 39 previous to Ezekiel's vision, God specifically states that his judgement against Israel for their iniquity was the captivity, but now he will restore the house of Israel. He then speaks of the outpouring of the Holy Spirit that shall come to pass.

Eze 39:27 "When I bring them back from the peoples and gather them from the lands of their enemies, then I shall be sanctified through them in the sight of the many nations.
Eze 39:28 "Then they will know that I am the LORD their God because I made them go into exile among the nations, and then gathered them again to their own land; and I will leave none of them there any longer.
Eze 39:29 "I will not hide My face from them any longer, for I will have poured out My Spirit on the house of Israel," declares the Lord GOD.

This speaks of the restoration of the house of Israel, but I see no condition in the preceding chapter relative to Exekiel's vision of the temple.

Eze 40:1 In the twenty-fifth year of our exile, at the beginning of the year, on the tenth of the month, in the fourteenth year after the city was taken, on that same day the hand of the LORD was upon me and He brought me there.
Eze 40:2 In the visions of God He brought me into the land of Israel and set me on a very high mountain, and on it to the south there was a structure like a city.

God is big enough to foresee circumstances that might hinder His plan and bring them to fruition nonetheless. I realize that's not always true with a conditional promise, but again, I see none with reference to this prophesied temple.

[shorttribber]

Ezk 43:
10 Thou son of man, shew the house to the house of Israel, .......that ........they may be ashamed of their iniquities: and let them measure the pattern.

11 And........ if.......... they be ashamed of all that they have done, shew them the form of the house, and the fashion thereof, and the goings out thereof, and the comings in thereof, and all the forms thereof, and all the ordinances thereof, and all the forms thereof, and all the laws thereof: and write [it] in their sight, ........that ......they may keep the whole form thereof, and all the ordinances thereof, .............and do them.

And........ IF.......... they be ashamed of all that they have done.................show them............That(SO THAT)

they may DO them.

They......................WOULD NOT....................now their house is desolate.

it's clear enough to me....you may view what God is saying in this example differently ......I think He's made it conditional......and they STILL.......................WILL NOT.....be ashamed as a nation of what they have done.

They WOULD NOT................so God WILL NOT.

[slick]

Hello Abide & Shorttrib,
I have come to see in my years of study that generally any important issue particularly in relationship to Eschatology is retold somewhere else in prophetic passages, so do we see this idea of measuring of a temple "HOLY PLACE" in any other texts?

I would suggest that it is illustrated for us in Revelation 21 with the description of God dwelling among men and in particular the dimensions and measurements of the "NEW JERUSALEM" though no actual wordings are duplicated between the texts there does seem to be an implication by the facts that this is the same scene that we saw in Ezekiel 43.

If that is the case, then Shorttrib is correct in saying that the promise was conditioned on obedience, we know that, that did not occur and will not until Jesus returns and enlightens Israel to His Truth. Jesus says along with John The Baptist "THE KINGDOM IS AT HAND" and yet because HE was rejected did not occur in the way that was believed by the Jews.It would seem that the Temple depicted in Ezekiel mirrors this same idea...The Jews once again have a false idea as to the coming Messiah and the means by which the kingdom will be established.They certainly do not believe that Christians/Gentiles will have any real part in it. the picture of the Crucifixion where the curtain of the Holy of Holies is rent would perhaps offer a clue as to the NEW MEANS in which GOD would choose to occupy his place among men.The Temple was a secretive and Highly Exclusive means to reach God, NOW ALL have access.....so once again the concept of a rebuilt Temple in the traditional sense would invalidate the whole picture of Jesus giving total and open access to God, but rather would reestablish the former Secretive,Limited access.

GOD-BLESS,

THE BATTLE RAGES TIL THE LION SOON ROARS!
Clarence

[shorttribber]

Hello Abide & Shorttrib,
I have come to see in my years of study that generally any important issue particularly in relationship to Eschatology is retold somewhere else in prophetic passages, so do we see this idea of measuring of a temple "HOLY PLACE" in any other texts?

I would suggest that it is illustrated for us in Revelation 21 with the description of God dwelling among men and in particular the dimensions and measurements of the "NEW JERUSALEM" though no actual wordings are duplicated between the texts there does seem to be an implication by the facts that this is the same scene that we saw in Ezekiel 43.

If that is the case, then Shorttrib is correct in saying that the promise was conditioned on obedience, we know that, that did not occur and will not until Jesus returns and enlightens Israel to His Truth. Jesus says along with John The Baptist "THE KINGDOM IS AT HAND" and yet because HE was rejected did not occur in the way that was believed by the Jews.It would seem that the Temple depicted in Ezekiel mirrors this same idea...The Jews once again have a false idea as to the coming Messiah and the means by which the kingdom will be established.They certainly do not believe that Christians/Gentiles will have any real part in it. the picture of the Crucifixion where the curtain of the Holy of Holies is rent would perhaps offer a clue as to the NEW MEANS in which GOD would choose to occupy his place among men.The Temple was a secretive and Highly Exclusive means to reach God, NOW ALL have access.....so once again the concept of a rebuilt Temple in the traditional sense would invalidate the whole picture of Jesus giving total and open access to God, but rather would reestablish the former Secretive,Limited access.

GOD-BLESS,

THE BATTLE RAGES TIL THE LION SOON ROARS!
Clarence

Well said

[Mrs. B]

Abomomatopm that Makes Desolate......


God has a Plan...
When Adam sin and death entered into the World, that God had Created....He had a Plan prepared from the beginning.
Jesus blood was shedd before the Foundation of the World......He was Sacrificed before the beginning, before the foundation of the world...
Satan failed before man was created...He was an enemy of God...a Fallen Angel....So God had a Plan to defeat satan from the beginning....satan condemned himself

The Life is in the Blood....without the shedding of blood there is not life.
Cane and Able...
Able shedd Blood.....Cane brought his own sacrifice....the fruit without blood.He sufstituted his own works..his own rightneous......good works.....he was self rightous......he trusted in him self......he disobeyed God and brought His own good works........He was not Justified.....a Blood offering is necessary for Salvation, for forgiveness

This is an abomination to God when we think we save ourselves by our knowledge, our good works, my man's approvel...not God's.......by being a Jew?
Without a Blood Sacrifice there is No Salvation....

God taught man with Moses.....He required a Lamb without spot or blimish.....The Blood had to be sprinkled on the Door post of the House.....and all must be in the House Under the Blood.....when the death angel passed over....
Only Belie er were saved....those that obeyed and sprinkled the blood on the door and then entered the house and ate of the sacrifice Lamb...

So today...it is the same....Jesus is the Perfect Lamb of God....
When we come to Him and Repent, and His Blood is applied to Our Lives...Our hearts and the Promise that God made
then comes upon us....The Holy Spirit

Adam lost the spirit of God when he Sin....And the Curse came upon the whole world....Jesus is the Promise SEED that God made to Eve in the Garden....
God had a Plan....
God destroyed the earth with water......Only 6 were saved.

Because man's sins were full...He started over with Noah and His Family....
He calls out Abraham.....and makes the Promise that through His seed shall come the Saviour or the Promise SEED.
Abraham, Issaac and Jacob....
The seed will come through the tribe of Juda...
So Jesus came and fulfilled the Promise of the SEED that God had Promised from the Beginning...


Mrs. b


.

[Mrs. B]

Abomination that Makes Desolate....


Juda is the Tribe that the Promise Seed is to come......Jesus is the Promise Seed....and was born from the tribe of Juda....
This is why God has Kept the Tribe of Juda until today.....They are a Witness to the Promise that God made and Has fulfilled.....This is a Witness to the whole world......and Jerusalem is also a Witness.....of the fulfillment of Gods'plan.
That is why World Judgment Will begin At Jerusalem......it is like a sign to the whole world....all will be without excuse.
The Temple was only only for a while.....It is a witness also to the world.....
it is not to be Worshipped......it is a sign...
The ten tribes that are lost are probably nations that Jesus said....Go into all the World and Preach this Gospel, to every Nation.......this includes the Lost Tribes that are spread all over the World...

The Message is Jesus....the Promise Seed....not a church.....we are the church....the church will not and cannot save you...Only in Jesus is the Blood....He is the Lamb of God.....The Holy Sacrifice.....and Faith in His is How we are Saved...not a system....a Person.....His Blood only is accounted for our salvation.....Faith in His Blood, the Lamb of God...
And Jesus went into Heaven and He told His Apostles.......GO TO JERUSALEM AND WAITE FOR THE PROMISE OF THE FATHER......
What Promise......? The Promise of the Spirit

When Adam sin the Spirit of Eternel Life left him.......Adam died
But Jesus bought us back from death with His Blood......Jesus said....He that believeth in me....Even though He is Dead yet shall He Live.......In John 3 He said...You Must BE Born AGAIN.......Born of the Water and the Spirit...Joining the church does not save us....we must be born again.....Repent and be forn of God....the Word and the Spirit
Jesus is seated at the Right Hand of the Father NOW for Us....Making intercession.....Pleading or presenting His Blood Sacrifice to the Father....Making Intercession for us...We must have the Blood Sacrifice applies to our hearts and life and be filled with the Holy Spirit.......being a good church member is not enought.....


Mrs. B

[Mrs. B]

Abomination that Makes Desolate.....

OK.....The Abomination is the false teaching and believing.......wrong believing and man's ideas...

Jesus is the Only Way to Salvation...Faith in Him and Obeying Him....His Holy Spirit will deal with our spirit and we must obey.......we must be obedient......Remember Jesus said to the ten Virgins.....to the foolish He said...I never Knew You...just knowing about Jesus is Not Enough.....we must have a Personnel Relation with Him....He is the only Door to salvation and Knowing Him is a Must....

If you Know Him.....You will obey Him....
How can we know Him?..By His Word and His Spirit.....His Spirit lives in us and His Spirit will lead and guide us....We must learn to be obedient to His Holy Spirit......Jesus said Follow Me.....He has given us HIS SPIRIT.....what Adam lost in the Garden.....Jesus has bought it Back, with His Blood. and has sent back to us the believers the Holy Spirit., or His Spirit.,It lives in us.

The Holy Spirit and the Written Word Agree
There is No conterdition of the Word and the Spirit.
His Holy Spirit will not tell you to sin.
His Holy Spirit is Holy and we are to learn to be lead by His Spirit. Always be Obedient

The Abomination that Maketh Desolate is a Spirit that will be of the Antichrist......a False christ,
It will be a Man.., that will deceive the whole world, and even many believers...those that do not know Jesus will be deceived....

Mrs.

[Resurrection Torchlight]

Abomination that Makes Desolate.....

OK.....The Abomination is the false teaching and believing.......wrong believing and man's ideas...

The Abomination that Maketh Desolate is a Spirit that will be of the Antichrist......a False christ,
It will be a Man.., that will deceive the whole world, and even many believers...those that do not know Jesus will be deceived....

So is the abomination a false teaching- apostasy, or is it the false Christ, who deceives the world?

If it is merely false teaching that leads would be believers into apostasy, then it is an abomination that has been going on a long time. But if it is through the man- that will be the beast or Antichrist that this abomination comes, then I agree with you, the false teaching is that he claims to be God, and people will believe that he is.

RT

[Mrs. B]

Abomination that Makes Desolate....

The False Christ, when he appears, the Abomination that makes desolate is at hand..
He is the sign to us the true believers, that the end is at hand.
Paul teaches this is II Thess. 2:10....And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received NOT the Love of the Truth, that they might be saved....

The love of the Truth....that to me is why we must Love Jesus more then we love mother, father, brother,sister, children, and our own life also......we must be seekers of truth.....we must love Jesus more then this world and all it has to offer...He msut be first. If we put Him first then our children will see Jesus in us and be saved. Our friends will see Jesus and wont to be saved.

I Love St. John
I John 2:18...Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are thee many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
19...The went out from us, But they were Not of Us; for if they had been of us, they would No Dooubt have continued with us: But they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us...

BUT. YE HAVE AN UNCTION FROM THE HOLY ONE, AND YE KNOW ALL THINGS.
Oh Glory...that is why we Have the Holy Spirit....He is the Unction from the Holy One.....and He leads us and guides us into all truth....This is the Promise of the Father.....with out the Holy spiri tin our lives....we could be deceived....but the holy spirit leads us and guides us into all truth..


The A/c christ is a charmer....he will speak and deceive the very elect if possible...but thank Jesus Our Lord that has given us of His Spirit tht will reveal truth to us.....'Glory

Love all you in the Lord....I'm getting al litt bit old....and please excuse my poor spelling and typing.



Mrs. B

[Mrs. B]

Abomination that Makes Desolate.

Matt 24:3b....Tell us, when shall these things be?
2...and what shall be the sign of thy coming,
3....and of the end of the world?

They ask Jesus three questions...
4...Jesus said, Take heed that no man deceive you..

So we will have deceivers......and many will be deceived, these are signs of the end.
Take heed that no man deceive you, for many shall come in MY Name and deceive man...

Signs...
6...And ye shall HEAR of WARS and rumours of Wars...this is a sign
see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet..
OK...this we have seen.
7...For Nation shall rise against nation, and k ingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilence, and eqrthquakes in divers place...
8....ALL THESE ARE THE BEGINNING OF SORROWS...
9..THEN SHALL THEY DELIVER YOU UP TO BE AFFLICTED, AND SHALL KILL YOU.
Many offended, betray one another, hate one another(in other countries this is happening now,today.
11.MANY false prophets, and shall deceive many.
13. But..notice..He that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

And this Gospel of the Kingdom shall be preached in all the World for a Witness unto all Nations; and THEN shall the end come.....

All of this is and has been fuffilled...and is being fulfilled in our generation...When you see all these thing Know that that Generation shall not pass away until all shall be fulfilled........

15...When ye therefore shall see the Abomination of desolation spoken of by ...DANIEL THE PROPHET, stand in the Holy Place (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

Holy Place???
In the Church? or the Temple area? In Jerusalem? or the body of Christ the Church?

The Holy Place...
I John 4:2...Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
3...And Every Spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God:
and this is that Spirit of Antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and Even Now already is it in the world.
4...Ye ae of God, little children, and have overcome them: because Greater is He that is in You, than he that is in the world

Mrs. B

[Resurrection Torchlight]

The False Christ, when he appears, is the Abomination that makes desolate.
He is the sign to us the true believers, that the end is at hand.
Paul teaches this is II Thess. 2:10....And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received NOT the Love of the Truth, that they might be saved....

So we agree then

Though I still have a couple things niggling me about what you say

1.Is it his appearing that makes desolate or his revealing?? Are these two different things??

I tend toward the idea that his appearing and his revealing are two different events,

his appearance or coming :

2 Thessalonians 2:9-10
9 that is, the one whose coming is in accord with the activity of Satan, with all power and signs and false wonders,
10 and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved.

he is revealed:

2 Thessalonians 2:3-4
3 Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,
4 who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God.

Though I could be wrong, but I believe the abomination that makes desolate Is that he calls himself God.



2.And is this a sign to us true believers that the end is at hand or a sign to others?

Matthew 24:15-16
15 “Therefore when you see the abomination of desolation which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand),
16 then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains.

Mark 13:14
14 “But when you see the abomination of desolation standing where it should not be (let the reader understand), then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains.

The AOD is a sign specifically for those believers living in Judea to flee to the mountains.

Judea
Strong's Greek #2453
2453 Ἰουδαῖος [Ioudaios /ee·oo·dah·yos/] adj. From 2448 (in the sense of 2455 as a country); TDNT 3:356; TDNTA 372; GK 2681; 198 occurrences; AV translates as “Jew” 193 times, “of Judea” three times, and “Jewess” twice. 1 Jewish, belonging to the Jewish race. 2 Jewish as respects to birth, race, religion.

According to Strong's Judea means Jews, those Jews who believe are told to flee.

So unless we are nationally Jewish, it doesn't pertain to us. Or even if it applies to those living in the biblical geographic region that is known as Judah, it is unlikely that all true believers at that time could live is such a small area.

It is true that this is also a sign according to 2 Thessalonians that the Day of the Lord is at hand. However in reality Paul was writing the Thessalonians telling them that it is actually a sign that the day of the Lord could not have happened yet. Paul wasn't giving it to them as a sign of things that they were supposed to look forward to, but rather as a sign of things that indicate that something they thought had happened actually hadn't.

In fact he says "But"

2 Thessalonians 2:13-14
13 But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth.
14 It was for this He called you through our gospel, that you may gain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

They; the Thessalonians; were called through the gospel for salvation, that they might gain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. They are not among them who will be judged by the events of the Day of the Lord, because they did believe in the truth so as to be saved. Through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth, they will gain the glory of Christ, they will be raised in His likeness,they will become like Him- they will be resurrected.

In essence Paul was saying look you guys are thinking the Day of the Lord has already taken place, they were probably wondering why they were still on earth. Paul shows them, that if the Day of the Lord had really already come then all these things would have had to have happened. The AOD and it's consequences are for those who did not believe in the truth, but the Thessalonians had no reason to worry, because they are destined for salvation, not the day of the Lord, because they did in fact have faith in the truth.

RT

[slick]

Hello RT & Group,

1st John speaks about the "SPIRIT OF ANTI-CHRIST" and in Revelation It is mentioned "...WHOSE ACTIVITY IS IN ACCORDANCE WITH SATAN..." we see a picture of how this will play out in Revelation 12 & 13 which is the overview of How the Final stages of the "cosmic conflict" are carried out up to and including the final victory of Jesus Christ.

In Revelation 17 we see the Beast going to war against "THE GREAT WHORE" Mystery Babylon....both for his and GODS purpose for destruction. The Great Whore which is False Religion ( corrupted judaeism & Christianity) initiallly are allowed to exist and prosper this gives the A/C an appearance of PEACE and tolerance,because up to his revealing it will serve both his and his masters (satan) purpose.

up to this point would be in line with Johns depicting of "THE SPIRIT OF ANTI-CHRIST" and would be closely associated with his coming or appearance on the scene. during this period of time in the a/c's mission he will be assisted by whom we call "THE FALSE PROPHET" and he eventually will align the world in such a way that when the A/c committs the AOD the entire world will be forced or coorced into allegience to the a/c and He at that time will by mass communication claim GOD status and NO OTHER religion of worship other than to himself will be allowd.

I would suspect that his appearing would be associated with the birth pains as mentioned in Olivet Discourse...and that The Great Trib or religious persecution will occur at the time of his claim at diety, which would be his revealing.

Harmonizing Scripture is not always easy as I know you know, so let me attempt to bring together Matthew 24 and II thessalonians in a way that may make sense. Jesus was a JEW speaking to JEWS who had no understanding of the Church Age so the message HE was giving would have relavance to the HEARERS He was directly speaking to, His Disciples not future JEWS.....the events will occur just as He says in the areas that He says. Paul ,whose ministry was to NON JEWS recounts the same concept to a non JEWISH hearing crowd thereby relating his message to The CHURCH in all time. we see this also in the Grand Overview Rev 12 & 13..."...and HE PERSECUTED THE WOMAN AND HER OFFSPRING.....AND WENT OFF TO MAKE WAR WITH THE REST OF HER OFFSPRING THOSE THAT HOLD TO THE TESTIMONY OF JESUS..." God is a FAIR and JUST God who never judges without giving warning or revelation that Judgement is coming for whom and why. so The New Testament is written in a way that JEWS can understand that it is scripture, and their refusal to accept that will justify GODS judgement. It is primarily written for NON JEWS and its messages are to be applied to US.

I hope this doesnt seem like too much rambling it feels as if it is to me, please feel free to zero in on any point as I am not sure that I clarified myself on every point.

GOD-BLESS,
THE BATTLE RAGES TIL THE LION SOON ROARS!

Clarence

[Mrs. B]

Abomination that Makes Desolate.....


"Chittim"
occurs 6 times in 6 verses in the KJV
Page 1 / 1 exact matches (Num 24:24 - Dan 11:30)
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Reference Only Reference Delimiters:
none—Jhn 1:1 KJV
square—[Jhn 1:1 KJV]
curly—{Jhn 1:1 KJV}
parens—(Jhn 1:1 KJV)
Paragraph Order:
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Reference-Verse
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Other Options:
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Remove Square Brackets Number Delimiters:*
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No Delimiter — 15
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Select All Verses Clear All Verses


* 'Number Delimiters' only apply to 'Paragraph Order'

Num 24:24 And ships 6716 [shall come] from the coast 3027 of Chittim 3794, and shall afflict 6031 Asshur 804, and shall afflict 6031 Eber 5677, and he also shall perish 8 for ever 5703.

Isa 23:1 The burden 4853 of Tyre 6865. Howl 3213, ye ships 591 of Tarshish 8659; for it is laid waste 7703, so that there is no house 1004, no entering in 935: from the land 776 of Chittim 3794 it is revealed 1540 to them.

Isa 23:12 And he said 559, Thou shalt no more 3254 rejoice 5937, O thou oppressed 6231 virgin 1330, daughter 1323 of Zidon 6721: arise 6965, pass over 5674 to Chittim 3794; there also shalt thou have no rest 5117.

Jer 2:10 For pass over 5674 the isles 339 of Chittim 3794, and see 7200; and send 7971 unto Kedar 6938, and consider 995 diligently 3966, and see 7200 if there be such a thing.

Eze 27:6 [Of] the oaks 437 of Bashan 1316 have they made 6213 thine oars 4880; the company 1323 of the Ashurites 839 have made 6213 thy benches 7175 [of] ivory 8127, [brought] out of the isles 339 of Chittim 3794.

Dan 11:30 For the ships 6716 of Chittim 3794 shall come 935 against him: therefore he shall be grieved 3512, and return 7725, and have indignation 2194 against the holy 6944 covenant 1285: so shall he do 6213; he shall even return 7725, and have intelligence 995 with them that forsake 5800 the holy 6944 covenant


Mrs. B

[Mrs. B]

Abomination that Makes Desolate...

Daniel 12:11.....And from the time that the DAILY SACRIFICE shall be taken away, and the Abomination that Maketh Desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days....1290 days


The Daily Sacrifice.....Jesus is the fulfillment of the Daily Sacrifice...He shedd His Blood on the Cross and is seated Now at the Right Hand of the Father in heaven making intercession for us the beliver......
and from the Time that the Daily Sacrifice shall be taken away.....and the Abomination that Maketh Desolate set up...
there is 1290 days...

10....Many shall be Purified, and made white, and tried; But the Wicked shall do wickedly:
and none of the wicked shall understand;
but the Wise shall Understand.....

They ask Jesus....what are the times of the end.., Matt 24:3b...Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

Jesus said...Matt. 24:15
When ye therefore shall see.....the Abomination of Desolation, spoken of by Daniel the Prophet, stand in the holy place,(whoso readeth, let him understand:)

Daniel 11:30....For the ships of CHITTIM shall come against him: therefore he shall be grieved, and return, and have indignation against the holy Covenant: so shall he do; he shall even return, and have intelligence..with them that forsake The Holy Covenant...

Understand....let him understand...It is Gods will we understand the day a the hour we are living in.


Mrs. B

[Mrs. B]

Abomination that Makes Desolate...

Abomination that Makes Desolate...

Gen. 10:1...Now these are the generations of the sons of Noah, SHEM, HAM, AND JAPHETH:
2. The Sons of Japheth..
Gomer, and Magog, and Madai, and Javan, and Tubal, and Meshech, and Tirasa...
4. The sons of Java;
Elishaha, and tarshish, KITTIM OR CHITTIM and Dodanim
5...By these Were the Isles of the Gentiles divided in their lands;

Abraham is a descident from Eber
Eber is where Hebrew....came from...Abraham was an Hebrew

Kittim or Chittim these were the isles of the Gentiles..
The ships of Chittim...
Now go to Numbers chapter 24....Balaam and Balak.
Balak wonted Balaam to curse Eber or the Hebrews

Read all of chapter 24.....
This is the first prophsey about the destruction or Judgment to come at the end of times....
24:15.....And Now, Behold, I go unto My People: come therefore, and I will advertise thee what this people shall do to thy people...In THE LATTER DAYS...

Cont.
Mrs. B

[Mrs. B]

Abomination that makes Desolate....

Numbers 24:15.....And he took up his parable and Balaam the son of Beor hath said, and the man whose eyes are open hath said:
16....He hath said, which heard the words ofGod, and knew the knowledge of the Most High, which saw the vision of the Almighty, falling into a trance, but having his eyes open:
17...I shall SEE HIM, but not now:
I shal behold him, but not nigh:
there shall come...A STAR OUT OF JACOB, AND a SCEPTRE SHALL RISE OUT OF iSRAEL, AND SHALL SMITE THE CORNERS OF Moab, AND DESTROY ALL THE CHILDREN OF SHETH..

18..AND EDOM SHALL BE A POSESSOR,
SEIR ALSO SHALL BE A POSSESSION FOR HIS ENEMIES
AND ISRAEL SHALL DO VALIANTLY..

19...Out of Jacob shall come He that shall have Dominion (Jesus), and shall destroy him that remaineth of the city...

Slick. RC and group....the end of the end starts in Gen.....and the Prophets only see more and each prophet sees and it is recorded for us......We can see the whole picture as we seek....to Know
Remember...Jesus said, Let Him Understand
This is in Daniel....God said to the Michel, and Gabriel......That Daniel Understand.......count how many times God say to Daniel to Understand.
Then Jesus says....Mat. 24:15...When ye therefore shall see the Abomination of Desolation, spoken of by Daniel the Prophet, stand in the Holy Place, (Whoso readeth, Let Him UNDERSTAND...

It is Gods will that we understand...that we see we are not in the dark......
We have a Blood Covenant with Jesus the Christ the Promise Seed.....He has given us His Word and His Spirit......we are not in the dark...Mrs.

[Mrs. B]

Abomination that Makes Desolate....

Numbers 24:19...Out of Jacob shall come He that shall have Dominion, and shall destroy him that Remaineth of the city...

This is end time Prophsey......this is the end.
20..And when he looked on Amalek, he took up his parable, and said, Amalek was the first of the nations; but his latter end shall be that he perish forever. (or, shall be even to destruction Ex. 17:14)

21..And he looked on the Kenites, and took up his parable, and said, Strong is thy dwelling place, and thou puttest thy nest in a rock.
22...Nevertheless the Kenite (Heb. Kain) shall be wasted, until Asshur shall carry thee away captive.
23....And he took up his parable, and said, Alas, Who shall Live when God doeth this!!
24....And SHIPS SHALL COME FROM THE COAST OF CHITTIM, and shall Afflict Asshur, and shall Afflict..... E-BER, and He also shall Perish forever.....
How can that be.......?

OK......Eber is Hebrew or the Hebrews..Abraham is a decident from Eber.....or Hebrew...
How can that Be? this says the Hebrew will parish forever.....

It took me a while to understand....
Jesus came...Preaching a New Birth.....our linage does not matter.....All must come to Him and Be Born Again.
The Jewish nation is a Witness to the World....That Jesus came from tribe of Juda and Fulfilled all the Promises from God.....Now the Message is that we accept Jesus, as Our Sacrifice Lamb of God and be Born Again.
The New Birth..
It does not matter what color you are, race, linage......All must come to Him and be Born again....Born of God
Adam was the first man and brouoght death....Jesus is the Second Adam and He bought us back again by His Blood, He is the Sacrifice Lamb of God.....Only In HIm is Eternal Life....not of a linage...but a new birth, spiritual birth...
Not of a Church.....
the church cannot save you....Only Faith In Jesus the Lamb of God....are we saved, or can be born again

When we trust in our church....that is an abomination to God...we deny Jesus.....Our sins are full...

Mrs. B

[MarkT]

Nope; it's pretty simple. Idols are abominations, and an abomination is an idol. The siqqusim, being abomination in the plural, can be several in number, or in the Hebrew, can show how great something is, or in the negative, how terrible. This abomination is SO terrible because it speaks!

Rev 13:15 The second beast was given power to give breath to the image of the first beast, so that the image could speak and cause all who refused to worship the image to be killed.

[Mrs. B]

Abomination that Makes Desolate.......


Jesus said...
Matt 24:15.....When ye therefore shall see....The Abomination of Desolation, Spoken by Daniel the prophet,
stand in the Holy Place, (whoso readeth, Let Him Understand:)

Jesus Warns......

16.....Then let them which be in Judea FLEE into the mountains:

17....Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:

18...Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

19...And WOE unto them tht are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

20....But pray ye that your flight be not in hte winter, neither on the Sabbath day:

Now take Notice to this next verse....

21....FOR then shall be GREAT TRIBULATION, such as was NOT since the Beginning of the World to this time, no, nor ever shall be....

22...And except those days should be shortened, thee should NO Flesh be saved:
But for the Elect's Sake those days shall be shortened......
NOTICE...Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there: believe it not.
24...For there shall arise false Christs...and False prophets...and shall sjew Great Signs and wonders:
insomuch that, If It Were Possible, they shalldeceive the Bery Elect...
25....BEHOLD, I HAVE TOLD YOU BEFORE...


This Abomination that maketh desolate is what Triggers this Great Destruction.


29.....IMMEDIATELY....After the Tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the Powers of the Heavens shall be shaken:

Notice Again
30....And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in Heaven: and then shall ALL the Tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of Man Coming in the Clouds of Heaven with Power and Great Glory.
31...And He shall send His Angels with a Great Sound of a Trumpet...and they shall gather together His Elect from the Four winds, from One End of Heaven to the Other...
This is Jesus....These are His Words.....Immideately after the Tribulation of those days...Tribulation..Tribulation of those days.
And He shall send His Angels with a Great Sound of a Trumpet....The Last Trump and they shall gather together His Elect

Paul writes to the Corinthians..I Corn 15:52..In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, AT THE LAST TRUMP for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shal be raised incorruptible, AND WE SHALL BE CHANGED.
Death is Swallowed Up....and we are caught up in the air to meet the Lord....

Mrs. B

[MarkT]

Of course, as revealed in Revelation, the very midpoint erection of the abomination, a talking image of the ruler who will come, the one who "prevails" upon many with a covenant to start the one 'seven;' sets off two onerous laws Christians are told to defy: worship the beast (or be killed) and take the mark (or you can't buy or sell - no money/no livelihood = starvation).

Rev 13:15 The second beast was given power to give breath to the image of the first beast, so that the image could speak and cause all who refused to worship the image to be killed. 16 It also forced all people, great and small, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hands or on their foreheads, 17 so that they could not buy or sell unless they had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of its name.

The midpoint abomination starts off the Great Tribulation.

• This comes as a test upon the whole world.
• The Church of Philadelphia is faithful to endure, and so, God will "watch out" for them; they will not lose their faith, nor their eternal life even if they lose their mortal life: this is an important lesson for us.
• However, many nominal Christians (like the foolish five virgins) will succumb thinking "once saved-always saved" and will try to save their life (perhaps thinking by doing so they can provide for the loved ones).
• The Great Tribulaiton is ended by the coming of the Day of the Lord.
• The Great Multitude come out of the Great Tribulation.

The Day of the Lord is preceded by its signature celestial sign: the sun/moon/star event - the miracle of God which sets this time to follow as coming from Him having His thumbprint upon the whole world.

• Beginning with the darkening of the sun at noon (opposites - Am 8:9) and going into the night
• In then evening it will be light (opposites again - Zec 14:7)
• As the sky scrolls back - the sign of the Son of Man
• And Jesus gathers up the Elect from the clouds, now but a sliver of their former number, from all over the earth.

The Day of the Lord is:

• The unknown Day
• Like Rosh ha-Shanah
• The Last Trumpet - which is sounded on Rosh ha-Shanah
• The end of the Church Age
• The "last day" salvation is possible for normal human beings.
• last call.

[Mrs. B]

Abomination that makes Desolate....

This beast...electronic control....the mark a chip in our hand or forehead.....Complete control.....the a/c goverment leader could track anyone at any time.....even take pictures.....I can look at my property from the satelite camera..
from by room......All our new electronic equipment is how the ac will control the world.....buy, sale, travel....

Mrs. B

[Mr Baldy]

Of course, as revealed in Revelation, the very midpoint erection of the abomination, a talking image of the ruler who will come, the one who "prevails" upon many with a covenant to start the one 'seven;' sets off two onerous laws Christians are told to defy: worship the beast (or be killed) and take the mark (or you can't buy or sell - no money/no livelihood = starvation).

Rev 13:15 The second beast was given power to give breath to the image of the first beast, so that the image could speak and cause all who refused to worship the image to be killed. 16 It also forced all people, great and small, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hands or on their foreheads, 17 so that they could not buy or sell unless they had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of its name.

The midpoint abomination starts off the Great Tribulation.

This comes as a test upon the whole world.
The Church of Philadelphia is faithful to endure, and so, God will "watch out" for them; they will not lose their faith, nor their eternal life even if they lose their mortal life: this is an important lesson for us.
However, many nominal Christians (like the foolish five virgins) will succumb thinking "once saved-always saved" and will try to save their life (perhaps thinking by doing so they can provide for the loved ones).

You know Teleoisis,

Perhaps there is some truth into what you are trying to relay here, but the sensationalistic overtones just ruin it for those of us who can see past the figurative language that expresses the symbolism that the Book of Revelation mentions.

By your language, you seem to imply that there will be a "literal" image of the coming Antichrist that will talk. If so, this is no different than the hocus pocus - fairy tale like nonsense that is mentioned in the "Left Behind" series that has so many Christians bamboozled. This sort of thinking is pure utter nonsense - Pun intended.

The Abomination that Makes Desolate could be something much more simpler than a "talking head" in the form of a man like statue.

[MarkT]

The Revelation of Christ Jesus reveals figurative language from the Old Testament to have literal meaning. When we actually have the means to realize a literal fulfillment, it doesn't mean that we "made" it come true when it actually happens.

Things are changing rapidly now with the rise of the "Muslim Brotherhood." This organization is decades old and is part and parcel with the groups that have already, repeatedly attacked the "North:" i.e., us. The Left continues to "wage war" on Christianity; the world is becoming quite divided between wheat and tares. Economic conditions are worsening in the developed world and I think intentionally so as to reduce wealth for the middle class and keep the lower class in slavery to government. Meanwhile, diseases from wild animals continue to cross-over and new ones continue to crop up at a frightening rate which has come upon us rapidly (as indicated too by the living creature who summons the fourth spirit forth from the Seal).

In Israel, they are tossing ideas around concerning nuclear weapons; the Sanhedrin have re-formed; they have found a red heifer, and the Sanhedrin are making plans to rebuild the Temple to the point of readying artifacts and building materials to resume Lawful Temple worship - and the Roadmap is still in place to attain a Middle East Peace Treaty and the ruling bodies in the "North" have prevailed upon Israel already to comply with its design!

This is not a work of fiction; it's right out of the Bible, and it's happening to us right now. When they announce that they are going to build the Temple; the one 'seven' will have begun and you have three and a half years to prepare for the ultimate test: that Daniel moment... Will you endure patiently, keep the faith and remain steadfast in the Lord? If you do, God will watch over you and no matter what happens to you - you will not lose your salvation so long as you hold onto His Commands.

[Jay Ross]

The Revelation of Christ Jesus reveals figurative language from the Old Testament to have literal meaning. When we actually have the means to realize a literal fulfillment, it doesn't mean that we "made" it come true when it actually happens.

Things are changing rapidly now with the rise of the "Muslim Brotherhood." This organization is decades old and is part and parcel with the groups that have already, repeatedly attacked the "North:" i.e., us. The Left continues to "wage war" on Christianity; the world is becoming quite divided between wheat and tares. Economic conditions are worsening in the developed world and I think intentionally so as to reduce wealth for the middle class and keep the lower class in slavery to government. Meanwhile, diseases from wild animals continue to cross-over and new ones continue to crop up at a frightening rate which has come upon us rapidly (as indicated too by the living creature who summons the fourth spirit forth from the Seal).

In Israel, they are tossing ideas around concerning nuclear weapons; the Sanhedrin have re-formed; they have found a red heifer, and the Sanhedrin are making plans to rebuild the Temple to the point of readying artifacts and building materials to resume Lawful Temple worship - and the Roadmap is still in place to attain a Middle East Peace Treaty and the ruling bodies in the "North" have prevailed upon Israel already to comply with its design!

This is not a work of fiction; it's right out of the Bible, and it's happening to us right now. When they announce that they are going to build the Temple; the one 'seven' will have begun and you have three and a half years to prepare for the ultimate test: that Daniel moment... Will you endure patiently, keep the faith and remain steadfast in the Lord? If you do, God will watch over you and no matter what happens to you - you will not lose your salvation so long as you hold onto His Commands.

Hello

Can you justify your claims by inserting the Biiblical references into the above quote of your last post?

I thank you in anticipation of your compliance.

Shalom

Jay Ross

[Mr Baldy]

This is not a work of fiction; it's right out of the Bible, and it's happening to us right now.

No, the things that you are mentioning are not a work of fiction.

. When they announce that they are going to build the Temple; the one 'seven' will have begun and you have three and a half years to prepare for the ultimate test: that Daniel moment... Will you endure patiently, keep the faith and remain steadfast in the Lord?

Now I find this question very interesting - in that it is loaded with assumptions. Since this is a debate forum, I would like you to provide Scripture that states that the one 'seven' - as you call it, will have begun when the announcement of the Temple is about to be built. And since you have apparently tied this same one 'seven' into an all and inclusive timeframe - in that you state that someone would have "three and a half years" to prepare for the ultimate test - (which according to what you have written is the "Time of Jacobs Trouble") then please provide Scripture that proves that this period of time has to run consecutively. If so...Houston, we may have a problem.

**Note: Just a little hint - this same "three and a half years" is = to 1,260 days. Daniel 12:11-13 indicates that there is a time period of 1,290 days and 1,335 days respectively.......just sayin

[Douggg]

Of course, as revealed in Revelation, the very midpoint erection of the abomination, a talking image of the ruler who will come, the one who "prevails" upon many with a covenant to start the one 'seven;' sets off two onerous laws Christians are told to defy: worship the beast (or be killed) and take the mark (or you can't buy or sell - no money/no livelihood = starvation).

Rev 13:15 The second beast was given power to give breath to the image of the first beast, so that the image could speak and cause all who refused to worship the image to be killed. 16 It also forced all people, great and small, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hands or on their foreheads, 17 so that they could not buy or sell unless they had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of its name.

The midpoint abomination starts off the Great Tribulation.

• This comes as a test upon the whole world.
• The Church of Philadelphia is faithful to endure, and so, God will "watch out" for them; they will not lose their faith, nor their eternal life even if they lose their mortal life: this is an important lesson for us.
• However, many nominal Christians (like the foolish five virgins) will succumb thinking "once saved-always saved" and will try to save their life (perhaps thinking by doing so they can provide for the loved ones).
• The Great Tribulaiton is ended by the coming of the Day of the Lord.
• The Great Multitude come out of the Great Tribulation.

The Day of the Lord is preceded by its signature celestial sign: the sun/moon/star event - the miracle of God which sets this time to follow as coming from Him having His thumbprint upon the whole world.

• Beginning with the darkening of the sun at noon (opposites - Am 8:9) and going into the night
• In then evening it will be light (opposites again - Zec 14:7)
• As the sky scrolls back - the sign of the Son of Man
• And Jesus gathers up the Elect from the clouds, now but a sliver of their former number, from all over the earth.

The Day of the Lord is:

• The unknown Day
• Like Rosh ha-Shanah
• The Last Trumpet - which is sounded on Rosh ha-Shanah
• The end of the Church Age
• The "last day" salvation is possible for normal human beings.
• last call.

Mark T, I haven't even read your post. But I want to say how much I appreciate the effort you went to in making it readable and organized in appearance. I am making a $50,000,000,000 incentive to Mrs B and Shorttribber to make posts without all the ellipses, i.e. theses guys: .............. ......... ...... ......... ........... .........

Doug

[Mrs. B]

Abomination that Makes Desolate


Obama admits he is a Muslim on You tube #t=28...

I tried to down load it but don't know how....Someone do it for me....Mrs. B

[burien1]

Abomination that Makes Desolate


Obama admits he is a Muslim on You tube #t=28...

I tried to down load it but don't know how....Someone do it for me....Mrs. B

Here it is Mrs. B;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4QHTWSldZg


[ But this is the prophecy debate area. Do you want it posted in the Whatever/news section ? ]

[Douggg]

[*] The Church of Philadelphia is faithful to endure, and so, God will "watch out" for them; they will not lose their faith, nor their eternal life even if they lose their mortal life: this is an important lesson for us.

Mark T, I don't know what version of the bible you are using, but here are the KJV verses for the church of Philadephia.

7And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth;
8I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name.
9Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.
10Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
11Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.
12Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

I don't read anything in the text of those verses regarding them losing their mortal life as you are saying.

Doug

[Douggg]

Of course, as revealed in Revelation, the very midpoint erection of the abomination, a talking image of the ruler who will come, the one who "prevails" upon many with a covenant to start the one 'seven;' sets off two onerous laws Christians are told to defy: worship the beast (or be killed) and take the mark (or you can't buy or sell - no money/no livelihood = starvation).

Rev 13:15 The second beast was given power to give breath to the image of the first beast, so that the image could speak and cause all who refused to worship the image to be killed. 16 It also forced all people, great and small, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hands or on their foreheads, 17 so that they could not buy or sell unless they had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of its name.

The midpoint abomination starts off the Great Tribulation.

This comes as a test upon the whole world.
The Church of Philadelphia is faithful to endure, and so, God will "watch out" for them; they will not lose their faith, nor their eternal life even if they lose their mortal life: this is an important lesson for us.
However, many nominal Christians (like the foolish five virgins) will succumb thinking "once saved-always saved" and will try to save their life (perhaps thinking by doing so they can provide for the loved ones).

You know Teleoisis,

Perhaps there is some truth into what you are trying to relay here, but the sensationalistic overtones just ruin it for those of us who can see past the figurative language that expresses the symbolism that the Book of Revelation mentions.

By your language, you seem to imply that there will be a "literal" image of the coming Antichrist that will talk. If so, this is no different than the hocus pocus - fairy tale like nonsense that is mentioned in the "Left Behind" series that has so many Christians bamboozled. This sort of thinking is pure utter nonsense - Pun intended.

The Abomination that Makes Desolate could be something much more simpler than a "talking head" in the form of a man like statue.

Hi Mr. Baldy, actually the image not only talks but comes to life.

15And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

Mr. Baldy, how to feel about the serpent talking in the Garden of Eden. How did that happen?

Revelation 12:9And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Do you see the connection between the talking serpent (a beast) in the Garden of Eden, and the talking image of the beast of Revelation 13?


Doug

[Mrs. B]

Abomination that Makes Desolate

Burien1 Thank you so much...and yes you may put it in the right catagory..Mrs.B

[burien1]

Abomination that Makes Desolate

Burien1 Thank you so much...and yes you may put it in the right catagory..Mrs.B

Here you are, Mrs. B;
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