Hi Rt. Good post. I find myself somewhat in disagreement that the robes given and worn signify the resurrected bodies of the Saints. Certainly they are significant, but I believe in Heaven and the Kingdom to follow we will still need to be clothed, our glorified bodies covered if you will. As a reflection of the Heavenly tabernacle the earthly temple of the Jews was staffed by those trained to priesthood, and they wore robes to distinguish themselves. Also, I believe there were different types of robes worn so as to signify rank or position, all the way to the High Priest. So I believe also the robes worn in Heaven will signify rank and position, as given by the Lord, and for His purpose. While the robes are all white I believe there will be attachments, or accoutrements, that further qualify this order set up by Our Lord. We will have different rewards and work in the Kingdom, Saints adorned differently will display this, I believe.
I dunno, RT, it seems we all must be given robes at some point, again to signify position, but I believe there is only one Resurrection of the dead. It matters not when we arrive in Heaven, the dead are all resurrected at the same time, receiving robes as they arrive, but all are glorified in Christ at the same time, and our robes then are changed to signify further our position before our Father and his High Priest. we still have work to do at this point I believe, and that work may actually be our reward.
Hello David (I have been praying for you, hope things are improving)
First of all let me say that I do believe that we will have some kind of garment, both angels and the Lord at His transfiguration appear to the observer to be wearing some kind of garment, and the heavenly bride is described as wearing fine white linen, so yes I do believe that we will be clothed in some kind of actual garment that acts as our priestly raiment. However I also believe that this white robe which is actually "light" or "glory" that the 5th seal martyrs are given after their death represents their new glorified body. The term "white" in the Greek means:
Strong's Greek #3022
3022 λευκός [leukos /lyoo·kos/] adj. From luke (“light”); TDNT 4:241; TDNTA 530; GK 3328; 25 occurrences; AV translates as “white” 25 times. 1 light, bright, brilliant. 1a brilliant from whiteness, (dazzling) white. 1a1 of the garments of angels, and of those exalted to the splendour of the heavenly state. 1a2 shining or white garments worn on festive or state occasions. 1a3 of white garments as the sign of innocence and purity of the soul. 1b dead white. 1b1 of the whitening colour of ripening grain.
It is not an insignificant detail that these fifth seal martyrs who are described as "souls" being the disembodied spirits of the dead, who have no physical body at this point are given white robes of "light", they are glorified. This is not just a simple garment, they are clothed with the glory of the Lord, something they did not have a souls of the dead, yes they may also receive an actual garment as well, but this is more than that. So they are souls who receive a glorified robe, you do not have to have a doctorate in biblical studies to realize that this represents their resurrection. To me at least this is fairly obvious. They are the dead who are resurrected and then told to wait until their number is completed.
-Why do they have to wait? Because their number needs to be completed.
-What are they "waiting" for? For God to avenge their blood in the judgment of those who dwell on the earth.
-Who are they that will complete their number? They are what we would call the tribulation saints.
Something significant is happening, these souls of the dead saints who died as martyrs on the earth are undergoing some event that denotes a change in their position, the giving of this white robe, changes their position. After this change takes place they are told to wait a bit longer for their number to be completed. Now in my NAS version it says this:
11 And there was given to each of them a white robe; and they were told that they should rest for a little while longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brethren who were to be killed even as they had been, would be completed also.
The italicized words do not appear in the original manuscript, so the passage actually does not imply that the number is completed, but rather that they who will die as martyrs after them will be made complete also, just as the fifth seal martyrs were completed. They will be completed as in fully finished or perfected.
Also the idea that there is only one resurrection is false, I have covered this already in my discussion here with Seeker. Christ has already been resurrected, so he was the first and His own words demonstrate the contrary is true.
1 Corinthians 15:22-26
22 For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive.
23 But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christ’s at His coming,
24 then comes the end, when He hands over the kingdom to the God and Father, when He has abolished all rule and all authority and power.
25 For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet.
26 The last enemy that will be abolished is death.
All die, and all are resurrected, however there is an order to how they appear before the heavenly throne. I am not going to rehash all this again here, please feel free to go back a page or two and read my discussion with Seeker on this point. But I will say this even the Revelation shows that there is more than one resurrection:
4 Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
5 The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years.
Many, I believe, wrongly assume that the second resurrection actually dictates that there are only two in number, while I believe that it denotes two kinds or types of resurrection- which is supported by scripture- one to life and one to Judgment and condemnation. It just so happens that those who are raised to judgment are also the last in the order, but that does not mean that there won't be righteous raised along with them. Again please go back and read my previous posts. I find it interesting that the passage above says that they are blessed who have a "part" in the first resurrection, maybe meaning that they are part of a whole,It doesn't say blessed are they who are resurrected first, but blessed are they who are part of those who will experience this kind of resurrection. Perhaps this is evidence that these resurrected here in Revelation 20 are only a portion of those who take part in this kind of resurrection, that to eternal life. The first in rank, and yes the first as in before the resurrection to Judgment. But that does not mean that there is only one of this kind of resurrection.
12 ‘He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he will not go out from it anymore; and I will write on him the name of My God, and the name of the city of My God, the new Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God, and My new name.
15 “For this reason, they are before the throne of God; and they serve Him day and night in His temple; and He who sits on the throne will spread His tabernacle over them.
These further my belief in order of Priesthood and Judges in the kingdom. Especially for the overcomers, who no longer have to go out. By suggestion this means then some will have to go out, but where and to do what I don't know. But I would speculate it might have something to do with furthering the purpose of the kingdom here on Earth during the Millennium.
I do not believe this is suggestive at all, but definitive, they will no longer go out, it does not suggest at all that there are those who will have to go out.
The raptured saints along with those who will be resurrected will accompany Christ at His return, but they will not necessarily leave the heavenly tabernacle to do so, and Christ will not necessarily leave His throne to return to earth, rather I believe that Christ arrives on His throne and that the heavens are opened so that those on earth can see Him and those who dwell there with Him as well.
Your statement about those raptured having their robes cleansed and changed has brought into mind something I have wondered about for a long time, and some of this stuff came from the new age church I attended for a while. They often spoke of aura's and those that could read them, who purportedly could tell us all about our lives and future even. While there many attempted to do this to me, but were so sorrily mistaken as to be laughable. One though, the high priest or whatever she was called, would only look at me askance, almost with an evil eye, and never spoke to me, but while reading others gave me several glances like that as I was nearby watching. I still don't understand that, other than there seemed to be an accompanying fear in her for what ever reason. The point is, Jesus read people like a book, telling them all about their lives. Others in the early Church had this ability also. So I have to wonder if we possibly do have readable auras that we might associate in some fashion to being a robe of sorts which reflects our earthly lives. At any rate, the subject of robes is a deep one, and probably deserves it's own study.
While this is an interesting idea, I do not believe that the "robe" that the fifth seal martyrs receive has anything to do with "aura's", only in the sense that they are shining in glory. Though it may be true that we as believers possess something that the forces of evil can discern- personally I think it's the Holy Spirit. One must stick to the scriptures themselves when interpreting, we cannot take the ideas of men and use them as tools of interpretation.
Scripture tells us that we will be changed, how are we changed? We will put on
the imperishable body of immortality.
1 Corinthians 15:51-54
51 Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed,
52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.
53 For this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 But when this perishable will have put on the imperishable, and this mortal will have put on immortality, then will come about the saying that is written, “Death is swallowed up in victory.
We will one day be clothed with our dwelling from heaven, we desire to be clothed with immortality.
2 Corinthians 5:1-8
1 For we know that if the earthly tent which is our house is torn down, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
2 For indeed in this house we groan, longing to be clothed with our dwelling from heaven,
3 inasmuch as we, having put it on, will not be found naked.
4 For indeed while we are in this tent, we groan, being burdened, because we do not want to be unclothed but to be clothed, so that what is mortal will be swallowed up by life.
5 Now He who prepared us for this very purpose is God, who gave to us the Spirit as a pledge.