First rapture, second rapture?

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First rapture, second rapture?

Postby Douggg on Thu Oct 20, 2011 2:48 pm

If the first resurrection in Revelation 20 is also the rapture, then is the second resurrection in Revelation 20 - the second rapture? After all there will be believers alive when Satan and his final rebeller's ( I think I just invented a word) are defeated. Will that last group of believers be raptured?

Or the other option is that neither the first resurrection of Revelation 20 or the second resurrection are the rapture of 1thessalonians4:15-18. There may be another option. Your opinion?

Doug L.
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Re: First rapture, second rapture?

Postby Seeker on Fri Oct 21, 2011 6:37 am

Hi Doug,

Don't fall out of your chair...lol. I don't see the Doug I refused to debate with any longer and have been reading some of your posts and like what I see. So anyway thought I would throw my two cents in on this one.

If the first resurrection in Revelation 20 is also the rapture, then is the second resurrection in Revelation 20 - the second rapture? After all there will be believers alive when Satan and his final rebeller's ( I think I just invented a word) are defeated. Will that last group of believers be raptured?

Or the other option is that neither the first resurrection of Revelation 20 or the second resurrection are the rapture of 1thessalonians4:15-18. There may be another option. Your opinion?


That's where the understanding of the total event called the rapture helps us. Let's review the scriptures describing the "rapture".

1Th 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
1Th 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.


Typically the rapture is considered to be when those alive are transformed and rise to meet Jesus in the air. Rapture is a concept and not actually found in the bible so we can't do a word search for rapture to bring up relevant scriptures to compare. But we do have Pauls description of it to guide us.

1Co 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.


There are sort of two phases of the rapture. In a moment we are changed to our immortal bodies and the dead shall be raised. Two seperate events as part of the larger harvest if that makes sense. That is also verified in 1Th 4:16 but we are given the sequence there. The dead in Christ rise first and then we who are alive and remain are changed into our immortal bodies or the rapture as we know it. The actual rapture is when we meet Jesus in the air. The resurrection occurs just before that in order to satisfy the dead in Christ rising first part. So the dead rising isn't really the rapture but rather the resurrection. The rapture is our meeting the Lord in the air in our immortal bodies.

The dead in Christ rise first so we see a resurrection first and then those who are alive and remain are raptured. We have a totally different scenario in the final rebellion. Jesus doesn't arrive for them to meet Him in the air (rapture) as He has been reigning and ruling for a 1,000 years. So to me it looks like two resurrections not two raptures because the group after the millennium isn't raptured as in meet the Lord in the air. They appear to just be resurrected at the GWTJ since we don't see a description of a rapture following the 1,000 years. The clear description of the dead in Christ rising as part of the rapture seems to set apart the two resurrections. There could certainly be a second rapture as their mortal bodies will have to be changed into immortal but scripture doesn't seem to say there is a rapture with the second resurrection that I can see anyway. Without scripture that shows a second rapture I would be hesitant to add it as a possibility but also could not exclude the possibility since flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God.

Peace,
Seeker
Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,
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Re: First rapture, second rapture?

Postby Resurrection Torchlight on Fri Oct 21, 2011 11:53 am

I think there is only one "rapture" as we call it. A one time event when those who are alive are caught up and changed. They will not undergo death as we know it. The other events are clearly resurrections of the dead. Those spoken of in revelation 20 are clearly those who will have died as martyrs during the great tribulation on earth. There is considerable debate concerning when this "rapture" event happens. I personally believe it occurs before the 70th week.

I think that the understanding of the "first" resurrection may be what confuses people. I do not necessarily believe that the term "first" necessitates an ordinal value. But rather two varieties of resurrection- one to life and the other to condemnation. The first resurrection is the principal one, the primary one- the one that leads to life eternal. It also happens that this kind of resurrection occurs before the other kind which is the resurrection to judgment that leads to the second death.

Throughout scripture there are two kinds of resurrection spoken of:

Matthew 25:46
46 “These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”



John 5:25-29
25 “Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live.
26 “For just as the Father has life in Himself, even so He gave to the Son also to have life in Himself;
27 and He gave Him authority to execute judgment, because He is the Son of Man.
28 “Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice,
29 and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.


Acts 24:14-15
14 “But this I admit to you, that according to the Way which they call a sect I do serve the God of our fathers, believing everything that is in accordance with the Law and that is written in the Prophets;
15 having a hope in God, which these men cherish themselves, that there shall certainly be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.


Christ was the first to experience the resurrection of the righteous, the two witnesses will also experience this resurrection during the tribulation, the tribulation martyrs will experience this as well as we see in Rev 20. And so will those who are dead in Christ when the rapture happens, they also will experience this kind of resurrection whatever your view on timing is. And again so will those righteous that will be raised at the end of the Millennium, who will have lived and died as mortals on the earth during Christ's 1000 year reign. So you can see there is more than one resurrection of this kind- of the righteous to life. Even if you believe that the righteous are all raised at the end of the tribulation, there is no denying that Christ has already experienced this kind of resurrection so saying that there is only one resurrection for the righteous would be in error because Christ already was the first.

The wicked will be raised at the end of the millennium, that is the only time we see in scripture a resurrection to judgment.

Two kinds of resurrection, not two as in there is only one followed by the last.

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