Wherefore Art Thou, Gog?

[1whowaits]

Considering the events in Egypt it might be worthwhile to review the different views on Gog-Magog as something may have changed a bit. Egypt, which has been more of a 'moderate' Muslim nation and who has made a peace treaty with Israel appears be undergoing a revolution of the type experienced by Iran several years ago. At this point it appears likely that the radical muslims will end up in control of the country and Israel will end up with another enemy on its border. Also Jordan, another 'moderate' muslim nation is experiencing some unrest which could eventually result in a takeover by the radical muslim element leaving yet another enemy on Israel's border.

Whether this does occur, whether the radical muslim elements take over these countries remains to be seen, but it does appear possible and even likely. Which, according to commentary in Israel, is not lost on Israel, Israel may be learning a lesson about dealing with muslim nations, even those with which peace treaties have been made.....i.e. you can't trust them, they can become radicalized quite quickly (a lesson the US needs to learn also).

Which causes me to think of Ezek 38 and Gog-Magog. Many believe Gog to be a muslim leader (possibly the Mahdi) of a mulim nation, Magog, which leads a muslim army to attack Israel, which could be a reasonable conclusion considering the rise of radical Islam. But Ezek 38 states of Gog that he views Israel as a 'peaceful and unsuspecting people' who live in 'saftey'.

Considering what is occurring in Egypt, will Israel ever be unsuspecting of any Islamic nation, realizing that at any time the radicals calling for the total destruction of Israel can take over? Israel can make treaties with muslim nations but in reality those treaties are just a piece of papaer, they mean nothing if the radical muslims take over.

And how can Israel viewed as 'peaceful' by a muslim leader, (who would likely be a radical himself as he appears to lead radical muslim nations), the radical muslims consider Israel anything but peaceful. And Israel living in 'safety' with radical muslim nations surrounding it, calling for it's destruction, how is that safety?

So because of this event in Egypt i believe it would be unlikely that Isreal would ever again be 'unsuspecting' of any muslim leader or nation, and as Gog does appear to have this view of Israel (Israel is unsuspecting of Gog and apparently Magog) in Ezek 38, it would be unlikely that Gog is the leader of a muslim nation or openly muslim himself.

There are other parts of Ezek 38 that would call the identity of Gog as a radical muslim leader into question, Gog is described as desiring to loot and plunder Israel as the reason for attacking Israel, which is not the reason the radical (or any) muslims wish to attack Israel. Muslims consider it a religious duty to destroy Israel and remove it from what they consider muslim land, and they consider Israel the aggressor and the 'great Satan', there is no question of 'plunder'.

Also in Ezek 38 Sheba and Dedan, identified to likely refer to Yemen or Saudi Arabia and Edom (Jordan), ask Gog if he coming to loot and plunder, as if Gog were coming to loot and plunder them. Why would Gog be plundering muslim nations if he himself were a muslim leader?

So if Gog were not a muslim leader who then would he be? Who would Israel be unsuspecting of, who would Israel trust not to attack her? What would the conditions be in which Israel would be peaceful and unsuspecting and living in saftey while surrounded by muslim nations, of which some if not all would want Israel destroyed? Who could cause Israel to be unsuspecting of him but at the same time lead a muslim army against Israel? Who or what could keep the muslims from attacking Israel prior to that time so that she did live in saftey?

[1whowaits]

In Ezek 38 certain nations are mentioned but the nations immediately surrounding Israel- Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon and Gaza, are conspicuosly absent. These nations are described together in various degrees in Ps 83, Isa 17, Jer 49, Amos 1, Zech 9 in what is often called the Ps 83 war or the destruction of Damascus event. As these nations are not described at Gog-Magog but are linked together elsewhere it is believed that the destruction of Damascus occurs sometime prior to Gog-Magog.

In Isa 17 it does appear that a city is Israel is destroyed, likely Tel Aviv, and Damascus ceases from being a city and becomes a heap of ruins. If this type of event were to occur in the present day the most likely cause of Damascus' destruction would be nuclear weapons, of which Israel has many. If this type of event were to occur it would cause widespread disruption in the world economy as the muslim nations would likely stop the flow of oil, and someone would have to step in.

The ones most likely to step in would be the 'quartet', the UN, EU, US and Russia, who are currently involved in attempting middle east peace. Only the quartet would have the power to put a stop to a middle east conflagration, mainly the military strength of the US and Russia. There is precedent for this as UN troops are currently separating Israel and Lebanon and i believe the US has offered to send peacekeeping troops to Israel in the past.

And it may be possible that the 'quartet' is referenced in scripture, in Zech 1. Zech does describe 4 'horns' of the nations that divide up Israel and Jerusalem, and there has been no group of 4 that have come together to divide Israel in the past suggesting that this is a future event. And the diving of Israel causes God to send 4 craftsmen, possibly the 4 horsemen described earlier in the chapter, to overthrow the horns of the gentile nations. (seen any horsemen lately?)

And after a destruction of Damascus event it would be likely that the quartet would divide up Israel to appease the muslim anger, as they are attempting to do now, as if that would work.

So it is concievable that the quartet could have the power to keep the muslim nations and Israel apart, by military force and threats. And the quartet would likely guantee Israel's saftey, so that she would give up her nuclear weapons (which they are also trying to do), so Israel could dwell in saftey surrounded by Islamic nations if her saftey were guaranteed by a stronger entity. And Israel would likely be unsuspecting of attack by the members of the quartet, or at least a couple of them. Israel probably wouldn't trust the UN, but would the US and the EU, And Russia is also being attacked by Islamic radicals and Israel has suggested a partnership between the 2 in the past so a relationship between Israel and Russia is conceiveable.

Could Magog be a member of the quartet with Gog as its leader?

[Mr Baldy]

Hi 1whowaits,

you wrote:

And how can Israel viewed as 'peaceful' by a muslim leader, (who would likely be a radical himself as he appears to lead radical muslim nations), the radical muslims consider Israel anything but peaceful. And Israel living in 'safety' with radical muslim nations surrounding it, calling for it's destruction, how is that safety?

and this:

So it is concievable that the quartet could have the power to keep the muslim nations and Israel apart, by military force and threats. And the quartet would likely guantee Israel's saftey, so that she would give up her nuclear weapons (which they are also trying to do), so Israel could dwell in saftey surrounded by Islamic nations if her saftey were guaranteed by a stronger entity. And Israel would likely be unsuspecting of attack by the members of the quartet, or at least a couple of them. Israel probably wouldn't trust the UN, but would the US and the EU, And Russia is also being attacked by Islamic radicals and Israel has suggested a partnership between the 2 in the past so a relationship between Israel and Russia is conceiveable.

Let me say that these are very interesting thoughts, complemented by good questions. But we do seem to be forgetting something here.....and that is the fact that there is a "mandate" to "Divide Israel" and that by August 2011.

I personally believe that the land will be divided first - as Israel "is" currently living in "peace". Then God will show the World exactly who He is. This is where a big part of the Muslim Nations will be destroyed in the "Gog" attack on Israel.

Let me add.......as I am a proponent of the ENP(I) theory, that this is all making perfect sense - at least to me. The timing of the Muslim Nations creating a crisis is absolutely amazing. I don't believe for one second that a "Mahdi" will arise, and take over the World, as in an "Antichrist" figure - as again, as previously stated, the majority of these rogue Muslim Nations will be destroyed. I believe what you'll see is a man from the EU be given authority to "continue" in his previous Position; as the EU gains military, political, and economic control over that region, then subsequently most of the entire World. The events that have transpired in the Muslim World is the exact "crisis" that will cause the Antichrist to finally come forth.

[Douggg]

[quote="1whowaits"][/quote]

Hi 1ww, I have previously said that Israel could be living in a state of peace right now, considering the past. I did not consider the peace treaty with Egypt. But it appears that the Egyptian and Israel peace treaty could have been the peace spoken of in Ezekiel 38.

Doug L.

[Seeker]

Hi 1whowaits,

Eze 38:2 Son of man, set thy face against Gog, the land of Magog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal, and prophesy against him,

Gog is the chief prince of two locations in scripture. Meshech and Tubal were actual cities known to Ezekiel and we can find historic proof of where they were located.

1. A people in Asia Minor. In the Table of Nations in Genesis chapter 10, Meshech is listed after Javan and Tubal as the sixth son of Japheth. It is generally identified with Mushki of Assyrian, and Moschoi of classical sources. The first known mention dates from 1116 B.C. in the first year of Tiglath-Pileser I, who vanquished the five kings of Mushki ruling in the southeastern part of Anatolia. They are mentioned again in Assyrian sources from the reign of Ashurnasirpal II (884-859 B.C.) as paying a tribute of copper vessels, cattle and wine. They do not appear in the Assyrian sources from the era of Assyrian decline, but are mentioned again in conjunction with clashes with Assyrians in the period of Shalmaneser V, reaching a climax in the reign of Sargon (722-705 B.C.). The Assyrian sources seem to identify Mita king of the Meshech with Midas of the Greek sources. This indicates that the peoples the Greeks called Phrygians are the Mushki of the Assyrians. The statement in Psalm 120:5 "Woe is me, that I sojourn in Meshech, that I dwell in the tents of Kedar" refers to Meshech as the border of the civilized world in the north, as Kedar was its southeastern extremity in the Babylonian and Persian periods, Meshech and Tubal denote the land of central Anatolia and its peoples (Ezek 32:26). Meshech, Tubal and Javan (i.e. Greece) traded in slaves and copper vessels (Ezek 39:1).

http://www.answers.com/topic/meshech

A kingdom in Asia Minor, listed in the Table of Nations among the sons of Japheth (Gen 10:2; I Chr 1:5). It is also mentioned in Ezekiel (27:13; 32:26; 38:2-3; 39:1) and once in Isaiah (66:19), almost always with its neighbor Meshech. It has been identified with the Tabal of Assyrian sources, and, usually, with the Tybarenoi of classical sources.

http://www.answers.com/topic/tubal-1

So Gog is chief prince of ancient Anatolia or modern Turkey. The bible tells us exactly where Gog is from because he is the ruler of Meshech and Tubal which were in what we know as the modern Turkey/Armenia area. If Gog were to occur now as you postulate then Gog is currently a muslim since the Islamist are in power in ancient Meshech and Tubal at this point in time. We can also tell by who Gog hangs with.

Eze 38:5 Persia, Ethiopia, and Libya with them; all of them with shield and helmet:

Iran, Ethiopia/Sudan, and Libya as we know them. Again all muslim today. So if Gog were to march on Israel any time soon it would be with muslim armies according to scripture.

Peace,
Seeker

[Mrs. B]

Wherefore Art Thou, Gog?


We see Gog in Ezekiel.......and Again in Revelation....

Is Gog both before the thousand years and after?
is Gog the same? one before the Kingdom is set up and the same after the thousand years?

Rev. 20:7...And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8...And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Ma-gog, to gather them together to battle:
the number of whom is as the sand of the sea....

If so....then Gog and Magog must be satan.....in a person...

I'm not dis counting anything already said.....Just asking a question....
this is something I still do not understand...

Mrs. B

[1whowaits]

Mr Baldy, i would agree that the land will be divided, i believe that is what Zech 1 is indicating, but what leads into that scenairo or what preceeds that division? With this unrest in Eygpt and in other muslim nations considered 'moderate', many have stated the peace process will be delayed significantly if not dead altogether.

If the peace process is dead will Israel allow her land to be divided? -unlikely. As her land will be divided, apparently be a group of 4 according to Zech 1, what happens next?

[1whowaits]

Doug, i also felt that Israel could previously have been viewed as in a state of 'peace', kliving in it own 'security'. But the sitiuation in Egypt may have changed that, the muslim brotherhood has stated 'prepare for war with Israel' and Israel has taken note of this at all levels. Ezek 38 portrays Israel as 'peaceful and unsuspecting' and living in safety, is that the current situation in Israel? With the events in Egypt and Lebanon and the realization that similar changes could occur in Jordan and other muslim nations the period of 'peace', as cold as it was, has now passed, imo. Considering that there will be a period in which Israel is peaceful and unsuspecting living in the center of the land (because it has been divided?) what is next?

[Mr Baldy]

Mr Baldy, i would agree that the land will be divided, i believe that is what Zech 1 is indicationg, but what leads into that scenairo or what preceeds that division. With this unrest in Eygpt and in other muslim nations considered 'moderate', many have stated the peace process will be delayed significantly if not dead altogether.

If the peace process is dead will Israel allow her land to be divided? -unlikely. As her land will be divided, apparently be a group of 4 according to Zech 1, what happens next?

Hi 1whowaits,

To answer your question(s) ...I believe exactly what you are seeing now is what precedes the division of the land. The peace process has had little to do with Abbas threatening to go to the UN to have a Palestinian State declared, prior to the current crisis. It would appear now that the division of the land is on the "back burner", but I believe that the chaos that has been created by these Muslim Nations is a crisis that has been purposely set, and will be used as a negotiating tool to further carryout the plans of the Muslim Brotherhood.

Once the Land is divided, they will then attack Israel - which will be the Gog war predicted in Ezekiel 38.

[1whowaits]

Seeker, i would agree with you that Meshech and Tubal resided in eastern Turkey, and they did border the Babylonian empire. Gog of Magog is their 'chief prince' apparently indicating that they answer to him. Magog itself is associated with more than 1 location, they apparently wer nomadic, but Josephus and Herodetus associate the Scythians with the magogites, which would place them north of the Caucaus mountains in Russia, which is not far from eastern Turkey.

Also some sources place Magog east of Meshech and Tubal which, at the time of Ezekiel, could place the location of Magog in the Babylonian empire. As Ezekiel appears to use the lists the names of the descendants of Japeth and Ham as locations of nations (except for Persia demonstrating that he is referring to nations), is Ezekiel referring to the past locations of these nations? I believe he is referring to the past locations of these descenadants which could then place Magog in Russia or even Babylon.

I would agree that if Gog-Magog occurred today the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal would likely be a muslim. 6 months or a year from now, things could change dramatically(say if the US were to fall who will step into the ME? who would Turkey then answer to?) I believe there will be some twists and turns in the near future.

But my main point is that i do believe Israel will ever again be 'peaceful and unsuspecting' of any muslim leader in the future, not even a leader of Turkey, suggesting that Gog may not be a muslim leader.

[1whowaits]

Mr. B, i would agree that the division of the land was well on its way to occurring but that was when Israel believed it could get some measure of peace and security out of the deal, now it is clear to all that this is no longer the case. Division could be imposed but something has to be given to Israel, some measure of security must also be imposed, the muslim nations must be restrained, and i don't see any group willing to get involved with that to the extent that would be required.

I agree with you that the division of Israel will proceed and lead into Gog-Magog but it would appear that something else must occur prior to that to bring about the scenario described in Ezekiel prior to Gog, and i believe that will involve a major destructive event.

[1whowaits]

Mrs B, i would agree that Gog is associated with Satan, but i do not think that he is Satan. Isa 14 describes the 'king of Babylon' and states that he will be killed and be 'covered by the slain...like a corpse trampled underfoot...' which appears to be a depiction of being buried in a mass grave, which is what is described of Gog in Ezek 39. Isa 14 does describe a man as the man is killed but the passage also describes what appears to be Satan -'How you have fallen from heaven, O morning star, son of the dawn...' it would appear that Satan does have some influence over the 'king of Babylon'.

As he does over Gog-Magog at the end of the millenium, Satan is released from the Abyss and he influences a final attack on Jerusalem, which may also be the source of the evil thought of Gog in Ezek 38.

[Douggg]

Doug, i also felt that Israel could previously have been viewed as in a state of 'peace', kliving in it own 'security'. But the sitiuation in Egypt may have changed that, the muslim brotherhood has stated 'prepare for war with Israel' and Israel has taken note of this at all levels. Ezek 38 portrays Israel as 'peaceful and unsuspecting' and living in safety, is that the current situation in Israel? With the events in Egypt and Lebanon and the realization that similar changes could occur in Jordan and other muslim nations the period of 'peace', as cold as it was, has now passed, imo. Considering that there will be a period in which Israel is peaceful and unsuspecting living in the center of the land (because it has been divided?) what is next?

Right now there is a peace treaty with Egypt. But with a new regime that could change. And Gog/Magog develop very quickly. Pretty hard to sort out right now.

Doug L.

[1whowaits]

Doug, i am thinking the PS 83/destruction of Damascus scenario is likely the next event, before it was not clear how Jordan and Egypt would be involved but now it appears to only be a matter of time. Another puzzle piece has been put into place, prophecy is visibly moving forward.

[Jericho]

Doug, i am thinking the PS 83/destruction of Damascus scenario is likely the next event, before it was not clear how Jordan and Egypt would be involved but now it appears to only be a matter of time. Another puzzle piece has been put into place, prophecy is visibly moving forward.

For sure... Tho I'm sure a little thing like a peace treaty doesn't mean much to them anyways. Apparently we pay off Egypt and Jordan billions of dollars just to keep the peace, so that tells you how fragile it really is.

[Douggg]

Doug, i am thinking the PS 83/destruction of Damascus scenario is likely the next event, before it was not clear how Jordan and Egypt would be involved but now it appears to only be a matter of time. Another puzzle piece has been put into place, prophecy is visibly moving forward.

I see your point. What that guy's name who recently was first to put the PS 83 theory in the fore-front? The PS 83 inner circle of nations theory is not that old.

Doug L.

[Jericho]

Doug, i am thinking the PS 83/destruction of Damascus scenario is likely the next event, before it was not clear how Jordan and Egypt would be involved but now it appears to only be a matter of time. Another puzzle piece has been put into place, prophecy is visibly moving forward.

I see your point. What that guy's name who recently was first to put the PS 83 theory in the fore-front? The PS 83 inner circle of nations theory is not that old.

Doug L.

Bill Salus, I don't know if he was the first but he certainly is one of the biggest proponents.

[extravagantchristian]

I always wonder if the Psalm 83, Damascus, Gog wars could happen during the millennium, since Satan will be released to deceive the nations then.

I was watching the world news the other night and some middle eastern guy was holding a sign that said "American Hypocrites" And I got it. I know why they don't like us. Because we are one big "Christian Nation" yet look at us... we're evil. Look at Hollywood. We're hypocrites. We're the great whore and the whole world knows it. I am really afraid for this country. I have heard different people, from different parts of the country who don't know each other tell of dreams and prophecies from God that big time destruction is coming. 2 separate people had dreams that New York was burning and there were people running screaming through the streets, a guy on the 700 club and a guy on CSN.

Revelation 17 is towards the end of the book so most people would assume that the judgment of Babylon happen towards the end of thr trib, but what if it's just the beginning? If you go back through and read it, it almost sounds like she could have been judged first, then been carried by the beast w/ 7 heads (hills), (which could mean that the economy had collapsed and the beast had to come in and support her) then after that point is when she would become drunk with the blood of the saints. I don't know, just a thought.

[Douggg]

Doug, i am thinking the PS 83/destruction of Damascus scenario is likely the next event, before it was not clear how Jordan and Egypt would be involved but now it appears to only be a matter of time. Another puzzle piece has been put into place, prophecy is visibly moving forward.

I see your point. What that guy's name who recently was first to put the PS 83 theory in the fore-front? The PS 83 inner circle of nations theory is not that old.

Doug L.

Bill Salus, I don't know if he was the first but he certainly is one of the biggest proponents.

Yes, that's who I was thinking of.

Doug L.

[shorttribber]

Wherefore Art Thou, Gog?


We see Gog in Ezekiel.......and Again in Revelation....

Is Gog both before the thousand years and after?
is Gog the same? one before the Kingdom is set up and the same after the thousand years?

Rev. 20:7...And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8...And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Ma-gog, to gather them together to battle:
the number of whom is as the sand of the sea....

If so....then Gog and Magog must be satan.....in a person...

I'm not dis counting anything already said.....Just asking a question....
this is something I still do not understand...

Mrs. B

IMO Gog is Satan in human vessels, Gog has been made manifest in the Prince of Persia, the Assyrian, Nebuchadnezzar maybe even Hitler...........I don't believe LOCATION of Gog(as a person/vessel) is so much geographical as it is association to PROWER BORN OUT of the ROOT of eastern mysticism BORN in Babylon.

Magog is therefore the ROOT.

Gog.......the vessel......and Maygog the religious system.

all

[shorttribber]

Ezk 38
10 Thus saith the Lord GOD; It shall also come to pass, [that] at the same time shall things come into thy mind, and thou shalt think an evil thought:

11 And thou shalt say, I will go up to the land of unwalled villages; I will go to them that are at rest, that dwell safely, all of them dwelling without walls, and having neither bars nor gates,

12 To take a spoil, and to take a prey; to turn thine hand upon the desolate places [that are now] inhabited, and upon the people [that are] gathered out of the nations, which have gotten cattle and goods, that dwell in the midst of the land.

AT THE SAME TIME.........something else will come to mind..........Does Israel dwell without bars or gates...or walls?Does Israel have and abundance of Cattle in the MIDST of their land? What OTHER nation fits this description?

The US has walls and gates...but not greatly so as Israel does for their enormous security needs........The US is the land spoken of in verses 11 and 12. The attack will happen nearly at the same time IMO.

Anybody ever see vast numbers of cattle in the MIDST of Israel.......anyone?...............Anybody ever see VAST numbers of cattle in the MIDST of the US?.............

[Seeker]

Hi 1whowaits,

But my main point is that i do believe Israel will ever again be 'peaceful and unsuspecting' of any muslim leader in the future, not even a leader of Turkey, suggesting that Gog may not be a muslim leader.

Israel and muslim Turkey had been allies for years until recently. They conducted joint military exercises on a routine basis. Israel made peace with Egypt and Jordan after they tried to drive Israel into the sea. Was it because Israel trusted Egypt? Not at all it was so that Israel could relax on the southern border. Israel no more trusts Egypt or Jordan than they do Syria or Iran. The peace was convenient to Israel or they would have never signed it.

2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Rev 11:1 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.
Rev 11:2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

The temple exists during the reign of the AC and there is no temple now. It is a physical temple because measurements of it are made. Somehow between now and then there will be a Jewish temple built and sacrifices allowed to take place. Muslims control the temple mount now so something will have to change between now and then. Somehow the muslims allow a temple to be built. Somehow the Jews worship at that temple. The names of the attackers of Israel are plainly written in Eze 38 and they are all muslim. That tells us that the muslims can definitely muster forces at that time and haven't been destroyed.

There will be a covenant with many signed that begins the last 7 years.

Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

H1285-Covenant
בּרית
berîyth
ber-eeth'
From H1262 (in the sense of cutting (like H1254)); a compact (because made by passing between pieces of flesh): - confederacy, [con-]feder[-ate], covenant, league.

Covenant is a confederacy or league. The AC makes a covenant/confederacy/league with many. Who does the AC make a covenant with?

Dan 7:23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.
Dan 7:24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.

Rev 17:12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.
Rev 17:13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.

The AC makes a covenant with many (ten kings) for 7 years. The covenant allows Israel to build her temple. Israel agrees possibly out of convenience or to stall a certain invasion. Not a direct peace treaty with Israel but a covenant/confederacy among the enemies of Israel. Islam allows muslims to agree to false peace in order to gain advantage over ones enemy. Knowing that the enemies facing Israel right now are muslim it would not surprise me to see the muslims conjure up a false peace to catch Israel off guard. Or the world could force Israel to accept a false peace with her enemies that surround her. There are an infinite amount of plausible scenarios one could dream up. The fact that the muslims are currently the enemies and are named as the enemies in the bible at the end of time speaks volumes concerning who the enemies of Israel are and will be when Jesus returns. Gog and the Magog war will consist of muslim nations they are listed by their very names.

Peace,
Seeker

[Mrs. B]

Wherefore art thou, Gog?



Read all the Books of the Prophets......they all speak of today......the end....this day and time...... prophsey is for
us to see and know all that is about to happen in our time...

All the prophets prophsey about our day......the end of time.....all nations are included in the judgment..
The only escape is the Church...those that are born again...born of God....by the word and the spirit...Born out of all nations.......Every Christian born of God in every nation....

Amos 3:7...Surely the Lord God will do nothing, but he revealeth His Seceret unto His Servants the Prophets...


God foretold that Jesus would come through the Tribe of Juda.......the Jews
There were ten Lost Tribes of Israel........Jesus said go to the lost tribes of Israel...and Preach this Gospel
The lost tribes of Israel, were scattered all over the world.....into all nations.
The Jews are only one tribe....and they are the Tribe that God said the Promised Messigh would come...
\
But where are the lost tribes of Israel???? They are scattered into all the earth....]
Because God Promised that the Promise Seed would come out of the Tribe of Juda....and they rejected him....
they should have known and reconized Jesus but they followed traditions and mans ideas......and did not reconize Him.
also God uses the Tribe of Juda......because they are a sign to all the world.......when world Judgment begins...

Let every thing be established by two or three witnesses.......The Jews and the Church...
The world is without excuse...


Mrs. B

[1whowaits]

Doug, actually the PS 83 war is just a restatement of the destruction of Damascus scenario and that has been around for a long time. The theory has been that as the nations immediately surrounding Israel are not mentioned by name at Gog-Magog, their armed forces have apparently been dealt with at a prior time, and they are listed together repeatedly in Isa 17, Jer 49, Amos 1, Zeph 2, Zech 9.

[shorttribber]

There will be a covenant with many signed that begins the last 7 years.

We'll see if there is or if there is not........very soon.

[1whowaits]

EC, i believe that there will be 2 judgements of Babylon, that is there will be 2 different Babylons that will be judged. Some point to the difference in the Mystery Babylon in Rev 17 vs that of the trading city Babylon in Rev 18, and Rev 18 states that Babylon has 'fallen, fallen..' which could suggest that 2 Babylons will fall.

Dan 7 appears to describe a succession of 4 nations that are still around when Christ returns and the first is the lion with eagles wings (the US?), the symbol of Babylon, and the last is the kingdom of the beast, which is mystery Babylon in Rev 17.

One can look at it another way deductively. Armageddon occurs at the end of the week and in Rev 16 God pours out His wrath on Babylon at armageddon. Gog-Magog has some similarities to armageddon but also has significant differences (Gog being killed and buried while the AC is cast alive into the lake of fire) suggesting that it is not the same battle. There is a 7 year period of weapon buring after Gog suggesting that it could occur at the beginning of the 7 years.

The nations associated with the destruction of Damascus event are not listed at Gog-Magog suggesting that they are dealt with at an earlier time. And the desctruction of Damascus event appears to have 1 more nation associated with that event that is not commonly noted, and that nation is Babylon in Jer 49-51 and Isa 13-21. (in Isa 18 the land of 'outstretched wings' apparently is dealt with around the time of the destruction of Damascus in Isa 17).

So there may be 2 destructions of a Babylon associated with the 70th week, 1 at the beginning associated with the destruction of Damascus and Gog-Magog, and 1 at the end associated with armageddon.

Of interest is that the times of the year that these destructions occur may be noted in scripture. The Hebrew calendar revolves around the agricultural cycle and the cycle of the appointed feasts, and when agricultural events or aspects of the appointed feasts are mentioned within the context of prophetic scripture, a time on the Hebrew calendar may be indicated. Isa 17 appears to associate the time of the destruction of Damascus with the grain harvest which occurs in the spring (april-june). The destruction of the land of wings appears to be associated with the time of the ripening grape, the month of AV (july-aug), the month of destruction.

I believe Gog-Magog is also described in Joel 2 and it appears that Joel associates this event with the Day of Atonement, the only appointed feast that is a fast (sept-oct).

So the timetable could be- the destruction of Damascus in the spring, the destruction of the land of wings/Babylon in the summer, the destruction at Gog-Magog in the fall. There is no indication whether these 3 events occur during the same year or succeeding years in scruipture.

EC, do you remember the 3 eclipses of AV, 3 solar eclipses in 3 successive years (2008,2009,2010)all falling on the first of AV, the month of destruction? As the last eclispe of AV was in 2010, i believe you asked if this pointed to events begining in 2011? Not exactly sure what the 3 eclipses of AV pointed to but i could guess- 3 destructive events or 3 successive years of destructive events, perhaps beginning with the destruction of Damascus. And i think we have just taken 1 big step in that direction.

[1whowaits]

Seeker, what i am getting at is not the past but what Ezek 38 indicates for the future, there will be a time when Gog views Israel as peaceful and unsuspecting, likely because Israel is peaceful and unsuspecting of Gog. That has not really been the case in the past, and it is all the more unlikely now for any muslim nation, Israel will view any muslim nation or leader as worthy of suspiscion because they have now proved that they cannot be relied upon, they cannot be trusted, they can turn radical at any time, and radicals want Israel dead.

And muslims will never allow the Israelis to build a temple on an area that is an Islamic holy site, that would go against the very religon of Islam, they have no choice but to fight such an act. And there is no reason for muslims, especially the radicals, to ever make a treaty with Israel so that a temple could be built, what would the muslims get out of it? It would be a sin for them to allow a temple to be built, would they risk their eternal state for land or peace so Israel could build a temple? The radicals want a war, they believe that their Mahdi will come if there is a war, there is no reason to give in to Israel, they want conflict, they want destruction.

And yet a temple will be built before the middle of the week, something drastic must happen for this to occur, Islam must be defeated. And they must be defeated decisively and even then they would continue terror attacks, they will never stop, unless they see an act of God. If they see and know that God has acted on Israel's behalf, all Islamic resistance to a Hebrew temple will cease, they believe the God of Israel and Allah are one in the same, they will believe Allah has acted, and they will resist no more.

And this is what is described at Gog-Magog, the muslim armies will be defeated by God Himself and all the world will know that God acted 'all the nations will see the punishemnt I inflict and the hand I lay upon them..'

Considering the state of radical Islam, the only way that a Hebrew temple will ever be built on the temple mount will be by a decisive act of God, otherwise they will never stop in their quest to destroy Israel and any temple they build.

[extravagantchristian]

Yeah I remember back in 08 I was wondering if the 3 consecutive eclipses could point to something happening immediately after, like a pattern. Then again, there could be a pause for a period of time where nothing happens. But it HAS to mean something. Maybe, pay attention to the next 3 years. And I still wonder about 2014... 4 signs in one year... that has to be a big warning... warning of what? The AC coming? Jesus coming?

If you think about it.. we have a 42 month period of time, sandwiched by two humongous signs in the years 2010 and 2014... coincidence????

Can you tell me your reason again for thinking that there are 2 separate Babylons? Do you think the Babylon in Rev 17 that has to be carried by the beast w/ 7 heads (hills) is the US? It makes sense to me... the US is judged... then has to be supported (carried) by the beast, and that's probably what it means by "sitting on 7 hills" because it says Babylon has to be carried... by the beast. And she's drunk with the blood of the saints... if the beast were ruling the US and carrying her financially then obviously there would be lots of Christians being killed here.

Not to mention that it says something to the effect of "she has made the world drunk with her sins" Hollywood... Our movies, our music... satan's headquarters.... Right here.... What comes from Hollywood goes out through the whole world. We are the #1 super power, blessed by God nation and this is our biggest influence, our Hollywood culture. And that's why the Muslims call us hypocrites because this is the vomit that comes out of our "Christian Nation"

[Jericho]

And that's why the Muslims call us hypocrites because this is the vomit that comes out of our "Christian Nation"

What's the old saying, when you point a finger at someone there's three fingers pointing back at you. Muslims claim Islam is a religion of peace yet all it produces is death, how's that for hypocrisy. Muslims hate us because 1)All non-Muslims are infidels, 2)We are "perceived" as a Christian Nation 3)We support Israel.

[Mrs. B]

Wherefore art thou Gog?


Two Babylons.......?

There is Babylon the Religious system......

And Babylon the World System......

It goes back to Nimrod.......
He begin babylon the world system.....He made slaves of man
Then when he died.......His wife got pregnant and said...it was a miracle child...
Nimrod came back from the dead and she had a miracle son...
This is the is the beginning of a false savior....a substitute
This is false religion to day.......another christ
antichrist.....false believing.....trusting religion instead of Faith in Jesus..

False religion and the Babylon world system....

Jesus came Preaching the Kingdom of God....a new birth
Matt 6....Jesus said, Put the Kingdom of God First in your life and all these things will be added to you....
What things.....the nesseties of life........food, clothing, shelter....
This is by Faith.....putting the Kingdom of God first and all the needs of life will be added to you..

Two Babylon Systems........Goverment and Religion....


Mrs. B

[shorttribber]

Ezk 38
10 Thus saith the Lord GOD; It shall also come to pass, [that] at the same time shall things come into thy mind, and thou shalt think an evil thought:

11 And thou shalt say, I will go up to the land of unwalled villages; I will go to them that are at rest, that dwell safely, all of them dwelling without walls, and having neither bars nor gates,

12 To take a spoil, and to take a prey; to turn thine hand upon the desolate places [that are now] inhabited, and upon the people [that are] gathered out of the nations, which have gotten cattle and goods, that dwell in the midst of the land.

AT THE SAME TIME.........something else will come to mind..........Does Israel dwell without bars or gates...or walls?Does Israel have and abundance of Cattle in the MIDST of their land? What OTHER nation fits this description?

The US has walls and gates...but not greatly so as Israel does for their enormous security needs........The US is the land spoken of in verses 11 and 12. The attack will happen nearly at the same time IMO.

Anybody ever see vast numbers of cattle in the MIDST of Israel.......anyone?...............Anybody ever see VAST numbers of cattle in the MIDST of the US?.............

Sorry folks....I feel like I'm being ignored (reposted this).........Can anybody else see that the USA is included in a simultaneous destruction?

[Mrs. B]

Wherefore Art Thou, Gog?

Your are right...

The Babylon system is all over the world....
The Goverments or controled by Babylon......satan, through men
An Our Country, I believe is Babylon controled....and will, and is being used today by satan to gain
control of the world...
Again......all religions that are not Blood Washed by Jesus or of satan....they are antichrist...
even if they use the name of Jesus.....this is the Great deception.....They use his name but teach another Jesus...
a False Christ...

There is only One True Church and you must be born into it....Born Again of God the Father through Fath in Jesus...
and One Kingdom of God......

The world system are the Old Babylon Systems today......
Jesus said...We are in the World....but Not of this World
that is why we do not fit....
even in your family.....if they are not born of God......you do not fit...
Just like Jesus......His own Family did not understand.....until after His Death, buriel and Ressurrection...

Both these Babylon Systems will be destroyed.......Religious and Goverment

That is why Jesus Prayed.....
Our Father which art in Heaven.....Give us this day our daily bread......forgive us our sin, as we forgive others.

Thy Kingdom Come....thy will be done on Earth as it is in Heaven...
Jesus Prayed that the Goverment of the Kingdom of God be on this Earth....
It will be set Up....Ruled with a Rod of Righteusness
The curse will be removed from off the earth....and Rightouesnes will reign
satan will be bound......


This is what we are Looking for...
When Jesus comes back and sets up The Kingdom of God on this Earth..
And He will Govern this earth with Peace and Love...
The Will ofGod on this Earth......
and the Born again Believers willl Rule and Reign on this Earth with Him for a Thousand Years...

The Babylon System willl be destroyedd....Goverment and Religion...


Mrs. B

[extravagantchristian]

And that's why the Muslims call us hypocrites because this is the vomit that comes out of our "Christian Nation"

What's the old saying, when you point a finger at someone there's three fingers pointing back at you. Muslims claim Islam is a religion of peace yet all it produces is death, how's that for hypocrisy. Muslims hate us because 1)All non-Muslims are infidels, 2)We are "perceived" as a Christian Nation 3)We support Israel.

I know what you're saying, I was just pointing out the way the rest of the world perceives us... and particularly the Muslim world because look at how fiercely they serve their God... they are willing to die for him.... they get up at 6am for a call to prayer each day... Our Bible says that sexual immorality is a sin, but look at what is socially acceptable for our women to wear and what we watch on TV and Movies. You don't see that going on in Muslim Nations. Jesus, our MASTER was poor and humble but look at the "American Dream" ... Smart phones, flat screens, new cars and houses we cant pay for. And a financially irresponsible government as well, that we have elected. We're in debt up to our eye balls... personally and collectively.

They are so much more devoted to their God that we are to ours... as a whole... as a nation... so our hypocrisy is that much more obvious in their eyes. And while we may be conditioned to it, and lulled into thinking it's all ok, God sees it too and it's only a matter of time before He makes an example of this country... IMO. Remember 9/11.

[shorttribber]

I know what you're saying, I was just pointing out the way the rest of the world perceives us... and particularly the Muslim world because look at how fiercely they serve their God... they are willing to die for him.... they get up at 6am for a call to prayer each day... Our Bible says that sexual immorality is a sin, but look at what is socially acceptable for our women to wear and what we watch on TV and Movies. You don't see that going on in Muslim Nations. Jesus, our MASTER was poor and humble but look at the "American Dream" ... Smart phones, flat screens, new cars and houses we cant pay for. And a financially irresponsible government as well, that we have elected. We're in debt up to our eye balls... personally and collectively.

They are so much more devoted to their God that we are to ours... as a whole... as a nation... so our hypocrisy is that much more obvious in their eyes. And while we may be conditioned to it, and lulled into thinking it's all ok, God sees it too and it's only a matter of time before He makes an example of this country... IMO. Remember 9/11.

what a shame it is too........God will be changing us all VERY soon.....and only those who truely love and know Him will stand.

[Jericho]

I know what you're saying, I was just pointing out the way the rest of the world perceives us

I understand EC, and I wasn't directing my comments specifically at you just ranting out loud.

[1whowaits]

EC, i believe Rev 17 is actually referring to Jerusalem as Babylon, the characteristics listed of the woman are mentioned about Israel elsewhere in scripture and Jerusalem has been known as the city on 7 hills. This city is stated to rule the world so it would appear to be the city that the AC rules from and yet the AC and the 10 kings hate the city and burn it, why would they destroy their own city unless they knew they were going to lose it to the returning conqueror?

Rev 16 describes God's wrath poured out on Babylon, the great city(the great city is referred to earlier as the place where the Lord was crucified) at armageddon, and Rev 17 goes back in time to describe Babylon prior to its destruction. Rev 18 then appears to change the venue with 'After this I saw another angel..', and he appears to describe a totally different Babylon than that depicted in Rev 17.

So the question would be whether John was going back further in time in Rev 18 to see a previous Babylon different from that in Rev 17, or was he seeing the same Babylon in Rev 17 and 18? I believe because the angels repeats the term fallen- 'Fallen! Fallen is Babylon the Great!' he is indicating that 2 different falls of Babylon are being depicted from 2 separate time periods. And the US would appear to be the Babylon in Rev 18.

[shorttribber]

EC, i believe Rev 17 is actually referring to Jerusalem as Babylon, the characteristics listed of the woman are mentioned about Israel elsewhere in scripture and Jerusalem has been known as the city on 7 hills. This city is stated to rule the world so it would appear to be the city that the AC rules from and yet the AC and the 10 kings hate the city and burn it, why would they destroy their own city unless they knew they were going to lose it to the returning conqueror?

Rev 16 describes God's wrath poured out on Babylon, the great city(the great city is referred to earlier as the place where the Lord was crucified) at armageddon, and Rev 17 goes back in time to describe Babylon prior to its destruction. Rev 18 then appears to change the venue with 'After this I saw another angel..', and he appears to describe a totally different Babylon than that depicted in Rev 17.

So the question would be whether John was going back further in time in Rev 18 to see a previous Babylon different from that in Rev 17, or was he seeing the same Babylon in Rev 17 and 18? I believe because the angels repeats the term fallen- 'Fallen! Fallen is Babylon the Great!' he is indicating that 2 different falls of Babylon are being depicted from 2 separate time periods. And the US would appear to be the Babylon in Rev 18.

that's good insight

[1whowaits]

ST, thanks, i would agree that the US is included in a somewhat simultaneous destruction, but i see Ezek 38 referring to Israel, Israel will be without bars and gates because she is trusts in someone other that God for her security- 'They will forget their shame and all their unfaithfulness that they showed toward me when they lived in safety with no one to make them afraid.'

God considers them unfaithful becuase they live in safety and do not rely on him, as in the past they rely on another nation for safety (who would they rely on?). And they dwell in the center of the land because they likely have lost Gaza and the west bank and the Golan, the land has been divided and they have lost the outlying areas so they have to dwell in the center of the land.

I believe the simultaneous destruction of the US would be around the time of the destruction of Damascus in Isa 17, as Babylon appears to be linked with those nations in Isa 19 and perhaps 18, and Jer 50-51.

Or as the destruction of Damascus does appear linked to the Gog-Magog battle in Isa 17 and Jer 49, the US may suffer the destruction at Gog-Magog because the US is Magog and Gog is leading the muslim armies (Israel is unsuspecting of Gog and God sends fire on Magog and the coastlands, Magog may have been part of the Babylonian empire at the time of Ezekiel, who rules Babylon now?).

[shorttribber]

ST, thanks, i would agree that the US is included in a somewhat simultaneous destruction, but i see Ezek 38 referring to Israel, Israel will be without bars and gates because she is trusts in someone other that God for her security- 'They will forget their shame and all their unfaithfulness that they showed toward me when they lived in safety with no one to make them afraid.'

God considers them unfaithful becuase they live in safety and do not rely on him, as in the past they rely on another nation for safety (who would they rely on?). And they dwell in the center of the land because they likely have lost Gaza and the west bank and the Golan, the land has been divided and they have lost the outlying areas so they have to dwell in the center of the land.

I believe the simultaneous destruction of the US would be around the time of the destruction of Damascus in Isa 17, as Babylon appears to be linked with those nations in Isa 19 and perhaps 18, and Jer 50-51.

Or as the destruction of Damascus does appear linked to the Gog-Magog battle in Isa 17 and Jer 49, the US may suffer the destruction at Gog-Magog because the US is Magog and Gog is leading the muslim armies (Israel is unsuspecting of Gog and God sends fire on Magog and the coastlands, Magog may have been part of the Babylonian empire at the time of Ezekiel, who rules Babylon now?).

again.............Jerusalem (city of peace/capital place of old covenant of peace year to year system) Hub of Judaism today.
USA...type of Jerusalem (city of peace/Type of capital place of New covenant of peace everlasting system) hub of Christianity today.

Just thinking out loud.

[1whowaits]

ST, i would agree, after Gog-Magog Jerusalem would become the religious center of the world (See how the faithful city has become a harlot... Isa 1)only to be corrupted and taken over by Satan and the AC, and Jerusalem/Mystery Babylon the city that rules the world finally brought low by God.

The US, the nation founded on Christian priciples and blessed by God (Babylon was a gold cup in the Lord's hand...Jer 51), only to be taken over by Satan and his minions, the US, the most powerful nation on the world finally brought low by God.

It would be ironic.

[Seeker]

Hi 1whowaits,

Seeker, what i am getting at is not the past but what Ezek 38 indicates for the future, there will be a time when Gog views Israel as peaceful and unsuspecting, likely because Israel is peaceful and unsuspecting of Gog. That has not really been the case in the past, and it is all the more unlikely now for any muslim nation, Israel will view any muslim nation or leader as worthy of suspiscion because they have now proved that they cannot be relied upon, they cannot be trusted, they can turn radical at any time, and radicals want Israel dead.

And muslims will never allow the Israelis to build a temple on an area that is an Islamic holy site, that would go against the very religon of Islam, they have no choice but to fight such an act. And there is no reason for muslims, especially the radicals, to ever make a treaty with Israel so that a temple could be built, what would the muslims get out of it? It would be a sin for them to allow a temple to be built, would they risk their eternal state for land or peace so Israel could build a temple? The radicals want a war, they believe that their Mahdi will come if there is a war, there is no reason to give in to Israel, they want conflict, they want destruction.

Eze 38:3 And say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against thee, O Gog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal:
Eze 38:4 And I will turn thee back, and put hooks into thy jaws, and I will bring thee forth, and all thine army, horses and horsemen, all of them clothed with all sorts of armour, even a great company with bucklers and shields, all of them handling swords:
Eze 38:5 Persia, Ethiopia, and Libya with them; all of them with shield and helmet:
Eze 38:6 Gomer, and all his bands; the house of Togarmah of the north quarters, and all his bands: and many people with thee.

What you don't seem to get is that the bible gives us the exact names of the attackers. Turkey, Iran, Libya, and many others. All these are muslim currently. The bible also gives us the names of other enemies of Israel in the bible. They too are specifically mentioned by name. Each and everyone of those nations are muslim today. Every enemy of Israel that is specifically mentioned by name in the bible is currently muslim today. So all these muslim nations will have to be overthrown and replaced by non-muslim nations before your scenario could occur. Until that happens the army portrayed in Eze 38 consists of muslim nations. No way around it the nations listed in Eze 38 are definitely muslim nations today.

Peace,
Seeker

[extravagantchristian]

couchmillenniumcough ahem... scuse me

[shorttribber]

couchmillenniumcough ahem... scuse me

[extravagantchristian]

well I was just wondering if the Gog war in Ezekiel could be for the end of the millennium when satan is released... We do know satan will be released and there will be a big battle at the end of the 1,000 yrs, so wouldn't it make sense that we would find bits and pieces of that throughout scripture? Something that big would surely be echoed and elaborated on somewhere in the word, I would think.

[amessenger4god]

You know what... I think you just put into words something I've thought before, but never quite was able to put 2-and-2 together:

What if... Ezekiel 38 & 39 are a prophecy of the last war that occurs upon satan's release at the end of the millennium kingdom?

If you think about it, the Bible has prophecies going from near the beginning of time all the way into eternity. There are prophecies dealing with the Flood, Abraham, the captivity in Egypt, the Exodus, Israel, the Temples, JESUS, the final 7 years of the end of the age, the return of Christ, the millennial kingdom, the final battle, the judgment, and the new heaven and earth. It seems like sometimes we take half of the Bible's prophecies and apply them all to our current time. But why? The pinnacle of time is not the tribulation, the climactic apex of history was when a Jewish peasant girl gave birth to a cooing baby in a cave.

...So my point is... what about the humans living at the end of the millennial kingdom? Wouldn't they need prophecy and warning, too?

Take note of two things:

1.) The Bible only refers to Gog and Magog together, twice - in Ezekiel 38-39 and Revelation 20:8. Revelation 20:8 SPECIFICALLY refers to Gog and Magog as the nations involved in the final battle at THE END of the 1,000-year reign.

2.) After this climactic battle in Ezekiel 39, the rest of the book deals only with Ezekiel's vision of a glorious temple. The dimensions of this temple are unlike any that Jews have prepared for a third temple. Also, there are two sections that indicate this may refer not to a millennial temple, but to the eternal temple of New Jerusalem (Ezekiel 43:7-8; and 47:1-12, which seems to be the direct reference from where Revelation 22:1-2 is taken).

It sure might simplify a lot of things if there will be only one war of Gog and Magog. If that is the case, we could be a whole lot closer to Christ's return then we might have thought.

[extravagantchristian]

Hey remember in the other thread we were talking about the WINTER, the thread about the eclipse in Dec. 2010... and the sign with the woman in the sky in the winter in Rev 12 Now the thing has happened in Israel with the weird light coming down on the dome... then the drama in Egypt stirring up all the sudden...

Revelation 12:12
Therefore rejoice, O heavens, and you who dwell in them! Woe to the inhabitants of the earth and the sea! For the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, because he knows that he has a short time.”

And even if the light at the dome was a hoax...

All we're missing now is a temple...

We've got 3 eclipses in a row (on the 1st of AV) + the eclipse on winter solace (blood moon over the US) that has already happened... now we have approximately 42 months until the signs in the moon are complete in 2014... (if you start counting around the 1st of av this year)

I'm just sayin.

Joel 2:31
The sun shall be turned into darkness, And the moon into blood, Before the coming of the great and awesome day of the LORD.

It just makes sense to me that this sign would be a direct warning of the coming of the Lord and not some arbitrary thing that will happen years before He comes. I think it will happen in a way that people in the world actually understand what it means. But then again maybe not lol ... sometimes God gives us signs years in advance.

And one more thing... people expect the AOD to happen exactly 3.5 years into a 7 year covenant, but I don't see that...

Daniel 9:27
27And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

It just says in the "midst" of the week. Nowhere in the Bible does "midst" mean exact middle. It just means somewhere with-in ...something. For example:
Revelation 2:1
“To the angel of the church of Ephesus write,‘These things says He who holds the seven stars in His right hand, who walks in the midst of the seven golden lampstands:

So the way I see it, the AOD could happen at anytime during the 7 year covenant of the AC. And just because the AC makes a 7 year covenant doesn't mean that the Lord couldn't cut that time short and come back whenever He wants to.

[shorttribber]

And one more thing... people expect the AOD to happen exactly 3.5 years into a 7 year covenant, but I don't see that...

I don't see that either........no seven year covenant coming..............Daniel 9:27 refers to Christ

So the way I see it, the AOD could happen at anytime during the 7 year covenant of the AC. And just because the AC makes a 7 year covenant doesn't mean that the Lord couldn't cut that time short and come back whenever He wants to.

See how close we could be......with no seven year covenant?

!,800 years of history is on my side of that...................less than 200 years of the Daniel 9:27 antichrist idea.

Just say'n

[1whowaits]

Seeker, i would agree that most of the nations listed are muslim and will likely end up radical muslims. But not all have to be non-muslim, just one, just Magog, land of Gog. And Magog could be linked to the Scythians (Russia) or to eastern Turkey where they could have been in the Babylonian empire at the time of Ezekiel. And Magog can merely mean 'land of Gog', so it does appear to be a mystery as to who will play the role of Magog, we cannot definitvely attach Magog to any particular nation, the closest would be Russia.

It appears that Gog has a delicate balancing act, as Israel is unsuspecting of him he would not appear to be a muslim leader, for as Israel has learned no muslim leader can be trusted or relied upon so Israel will always be 'suspecting' of any muslim leader (unless he is a closet muslim).

On the other hand Gog leads what appears to be a mostly muslim army against Israel, he apparently is not rejected by muslims. So who could do such a thing, be an apparent friend to Israel so much so that Israel does not suspect him and at the same time be accepted by muslims apparently behind the scenes so that they would follow him in battle?

[1whowaits]

EC, Gog-Magog in Ezek would appear to be a different battle than that described in Rev at the end of the millenium.

Prior to Gog in Ezek Israel does not know God and is unfaithful to God, which would be unlikely duirng the millenium when Jesus lives in Jerusalem and is worshipped by Israel. Also after Gog in Ezek all Israel is regathered to the land, which would mean that after being regathered to the land at the beginning of the millenium, Israel would again have to leave the land during the millenium and then return again after Gog-magog at the end of the millenium, of which there is no indication in scripture of this happening while Jesus lives in Israel during the millenium.

[extravagantchristian]

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