REVIVED ROMAN EMPIRE vs ISLAMIC EMPIRE

[amessenger4god]

Hey everybody,

I have usually just accepted the concept of a European antichrist, but I did a little reading up on Rodrigo Silva's beastfromtheeast website, and I have to admit, some of the arguments seem pretty convincing. Particularly the argument about how "Xi Chi Stigma" in Revelation 13:18 resembles the Arabic for "in the name of allah". Basically I've become more open to the possibility of a Middle Eastern/Islamic antichrist, but I'm still not convinced and here is why:

1.) In order to make "in the name of allah" fit with Revelation 13:18, "count" has to be translated "decide" and "number" has to be translated twice as "multitude". I did a lot of Greek Lexicon searching and it seems like that would be a major stretch. For example, the Greek word "arithmos", used in the verse for "number" is never used for "multitude" in the NT. I found that it is used 17 times for "number" and only once for anything else ("group"). It is where we get the word "arithmetic" from. So in short... I do find it interesting that "666" in Greek resembles "in the name of allah", but it also seems like the verse is clearly telling the reader to "count the number" and not "decide the multitude".

2.) The big controversy exists over Daniel 9:26 where it says "the prince of the people to come". The Islamic antichrist view seems to put emphasis on this verse because, it is argued, the "people" were Syrians and not Italians. However, though they were probably not from Italia, they were still Roman citizens. My point here is this: Daniel 9:26 does not specify if the prophecy refers to an ethnicity or to a nationality. It could be either/and/or. We simply don't know. Any nationality is going to be made up of different ethnicities. Imagine if the prophecy was about America... is it specifying "Americans" or "Hispanic-Americans"? It could be either. One thing is for sure though: the Second Temple was destroyed by the Roman Empire.

3.) If Javier Solana or another European leader (such as Sarkozy) were to be the antichrist it would still fit well with the prophecy if it is referring to a nationality. Spain (Iberia), for example, was one of the longest-lasting territories of the Roman Empire... in fact, Iberia was part of the Empire for almost 700 years! Check this animated map out: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4c/Roman_Empire_map.gif

4.) Another strong argument for an Islamic antichrist is that there seems to be an indication that he will come from a kingdom that will have been divided into "four" parts. Instantly we think of Alexander's empire, which is prophesied earlier in Daniel. The problem is, the Hellenic Empire was not the only relevant empire. The Roman Empire was ALSO divided into four parts during the Tetrarchy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Tetrarchy_map3.jpg In fact, this might even be more relevant because the Hellenic Empire lost control of Judea when the Maccabees revolted, while the Roman Empire maintained control of Judea from the time it conquered Palestine until its demise.

5.) The antichrist is said to exalt himself above "everything that is called god and worshiped". This, at least on the surface, would seem to indicate an atheist/agnostic type antichrist. The "god of fortresses" certainly could refer to allah or some other false deity, but it might also be emphasizing the antichrist's worship of his own material strength (i.e. putting his faith in his military might or something similar). It's another and/or possibility that we simply don't have an answer to yet.

6.) The big issue for me is this: I find Islam to be detestable and vile, but I'm not sure I see it to be as evil as the other major worldview opposed to Christianity--Secular Humanism. Basically, if we indeed are close to Christ's return there are just three major worldviews left: Christianity, Secular Humanism, and Islam. I believe firmly that either Humanism or Islam will produce the antichrist, the other will serve as a diversion, or one will produce the antichrist and the other will produce the false prophet. Personally I tend to lean toward an irreligious antichrist and an Islamic false prophet. As much as I hate Islam, Secular Humanism is what produced Lenin, Stalin, Hitler, Pol Pot, Ho Chi Minh, Mao, Margaret Sanger, eugenics, abortion, gay marriage, pornography, moral relativism, etc.

7.) Building on #6 is the idea of "Babylon". The antichrist's empire will be a worldwide "Babylon" system. I've commonly heard the Babylon system as referring to a worldwide apostate religious system (i.e. some argue it is the Roman Catholic Church, while others argue it is Islam, while others argue it is a universal "New Age"-type religion). This seems like a possibility, but here is the big glaring problem: Revelation 17-18's description of Babylon doesn't once mention religion or idolatry as Babylon's sin. The sin is adultery, material greed/wealth, persecution of the saints, etc. If we go back to the origins of Babylon at the Tower of Babel, we see that the chief sin was humanity's quest to become its own 'god', not in worshiping another deity. This is the same sin that caused Eve to eat the fruit "to become like god". Babylon is, in essence, taking idolatry one step further--suggesting WE are god, the STATE is god, and WE can do it on our own. This is how Babylon, the Tower of Babel, and Secular Humanism are all the exact same thing. The EU and the UN are the pinnacle of Babylon.

8.) The antichrist will call himself "god". This is probably my biggest objection to an Islamic antichrist. In Islam a man cannot be "god"... period. There's no way. This is why Islam is so radically opposed to Christianity. Islam teaches that Imam Mahdi is merely a man, not a god. If he were to claim to be "god" that would be categorically opposed to their religion. Their god "allah" is an absolutely unitarian, immaterial being, and nothing can change that. This is why I see the "day of declaration" as not a good fit with Islam. Secular Humanism seems to fit well, though. He will call himself "god".

9.) The symbolism that is shared between the EU and ancient Babylon is simply striking. The EU Parliament building is shaped like the Tower of Babel. The "woman riding the beast" is plastered all over the place (statues, coins, pictures, etc). Stamps, pictures, murals, and other images that the EU uses show the Tower of Babel. Also consider the U.S., also part of the Secular Humanism worldview. One of her motto's is "out of many, one". This is literally the reason God destroyed the Tower of Babel and confused their languages. America is saying, essentially, that we can undo what God did at Babel. This is also what the EU is saying.

10.) Power. Secular Humanism has the power right now. It has the nukes, it has the world government (the UN), it has the US, EU, UNASUR, AU, China, Russia, and others. It controls everything except parts of the Middle East and a few countries in North Africa and central Asia. Certainly this could change very rapidly, but an Islamic/Middle Eastern confederation, if it existed right now, could be wiped out completely by a couple US carrier battlegroups and a few weeks of Israeli airstrikes.

11.) Israel takes a ton of land in the Middle East after the first or second war. Clearly the first war will be between Israel and Islamic countries. So when Israel takes over the heart of the Middle East, and the antichrist is yet to bring his troops to Megiddo, it wouldn't make much sense, at least in my mind, for the antichrist to be a Muslim when Islam just had its butt kicked all over the place by the IDF.


I am open to the possibility of an Islamic antichrist, but I'm leaning more towards a scenario where the antichrist rises out of the former Roman Empire and the false prophet rises out of Islam in order to bring religious people, who would otherwise be opposed to the antichrist, under the beast's control. The false prophet, I think, might be the Imam Mahdi to the Muslims, Matreiya to the Buddhists, etc.

[savedbygrace]

An excellent post, messenger! Good points from both sides and worth bookmarking for future discussion!

SBG

[Jericho]

I also lean toward a European AC, altho I can see how Islam could fit with end-time eschatology. I'll just say that I think the key to whose paradigm is correct really depends on the timing of the Gog\Magog Invasion. If Magog and Armageddon are one in the same it means Islam will endure to the end. And if so I think the odds are good that Islam is the one-world religion and the AC is Muslim. However is Magog and Armageddon are separate that would imply just the opposite. Between the Psalms 83 war and Magog, Islam would take a huge hit. The middle-east would be left in shambles. The remaining Muslims are left demoralized when they see Allah is not with them. The odds of Islam being the dominant force after that go way down and a European AC becomes much more feasible IMO.

[kirthril]

SwordofGideon hit it right on the nail. If Gog/Magog and Armageddon are one in the same, then the AC is islamic, no questions asked since Gog, the chief prince is from Turkey. If Magog is separate from Armageddon then the AC could very well be European or any other theory that holds water.

I too read the Islamic Empire/AC links posted in another thread. Let me tell you, they make 1000% perfect sense... for one who thinks Ezekiel + Revelation are the same. It even got me thinking for a bit.

But right now, im still leaning towards a European character, but as we are all witnessing, Islam is growing mightly worldwide.

[shorttribber]

If, as I believe, only 3.5 years remain of the 70th week and antichrist is coming not to make some peace agreement but as a "man of war" worshiping a "god of war" or "forces" and it all starts with the AOD (Jerusalem surrounded by armies), it's Islam.

A war that starts and ends in just over three and a half years at Armageddon is easily foreseeable.

[jgilberAZ]

Besides the argument on whether Magog is Russia, can anyone cite any literal reference to a nation that God destroys in the End-Times that is not Muslim?

In every portrayal of Christ’s return to the earth, is He not fighting a nation that today is Muslim?

Really ... there are countless scriptural references to end-times events occuring in, and to, middle eastern nations.

Are there ANY that point to Europe?

Daniel 9:27 is debatable. But, besides that ... you haven't got a case.

People of the prince to come ...

Did the Roman Empire order the destruction of the temple?

It's easy to use scripture to show that all the end-times events are middle-eastern centric. It's nearly impossible to use scripture to show that Europe is key.

- Jeff

[savedbygrace]

Exactly! Good post jeff. Hit the nail right on the head.

And there are varying interpretations of historical Assyria, (ie: the Assyrian), but it is quite a stretch to say Assyria is Germany, Rome, or any other European nation IMO.

SBG

[clang]

This is a great thread and I hope many others will contribute their thoughts. I also am leaning toward an islamic ac. Even if the muslims in the middle east are completely wiped
out in earlier battles, that would still leave several hundred million, mostly in Asia. If we are truly close to the Lord's return, Islam seems very likely to me.

[Douggg]

This is a great thread and I hope many others will contribute their thoughts. I also am leaning toward an islamic ac. Even if the muslims in the middle east are completely wiped
out in earlier battles, that would still leave several hundred million, mostly in Asia. If we are truly close to the Lord's return, Islam seems very likely to me.

Hi clang, there are two fatal flaws to there beign an islamic ac. One, the Jews will never accept a muslim as being their messiah. As well as, the west has no use for Islam.

The main flaw is who is going to worship a muslim who claims to be god... the muslims?

No, the muslims are opposed to any man claiming that he is god. That's there big objection to what we Christians believe about Jesus.

Doug L.

[Douggg]

Exactly! Good post jeff. Hit the nail right on the head.

And there are varying interpretations of historical Assyria, (ie: the Assyrian), but it is quite a stretch to say Assyria is Germany, Rome, or any other European nation IMO.

SBG

Was the king of Tyrus in Ezekiel 28:12 in the garden of Eden? No. I don't know what the right word is, but the king of tyrus was just a screen name (in modern internet comparison) for Satan.

When it says the assyrian, it could mean that the AC acts the same as Antiohcus IV, when he placed a statue of Zeus in the temple, a forerunner of the abomination of desolation. It could also be the demon that possessed Antiochus, could the same demon, now in the bottomless pit that will possess the Antichrist beast.

Doug L.

[jgilberAZ]

the Jews will never accept a muslim as being their messiah.

Where is the scriptural support for stating that the Jews will accept the Antichrist as their Messiah ... Islamic or otherwise?

[Ready1]

Where is the scriptural support for stating that the Jews will accept the Antichrist as their Messiah ... Islamic or otherwise?

While this scripture does not indicate ethnicity, I have always seen it as an indication that the Jews would not be too picky when it came to accepting the antichrist.

Joh 5:43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.

[Exit40]

Hi Doug. It is a popular misconception, even amongst muslims, that muslims will not worship a man. Yet it is obvious they hold their prophet in such high regard that when he is insulted, even by such a small thing as a cartoon, their outrage is almost beyond belief. There is so much information on the al mahdi, the twelfth imam, the perfect man, the universal man, of islam, and it all points to the same thing when taken in the context of our times and their beliefs. They will worship this man. Here is a small sampling of this thinking within islam, and although this quote is brief and doesn't do justice to the overwhelming abundance conversation and publications about this one man, read on some if you can stand it. It would be good to do some research on this before discounting it so quickly. I know it is difficult for a Faithful Christian to delve into this topic from within islamic writings, but they do believe in this man and his coming from their prophecies, so we should at least be as knowledgeable as we can about what they believe, so we can look at it from the perspective of the Truth as presented in our Scripture.

Perfect Man

The subject under discussion is the perfect man from the viewpoint of Islam. A perfect man means an exemplary human being, who is superior and exalted, or any other interpretation that one can make. Like everything else, a human being may be perfect or imperfect, and sound or defective. A sound person, too, may be both sound and perfect or sound and imperfect.
To know a perfect or exemplary human being from the viewpoint of Islam is necessary for Muslims because it is like a model and example, by emulating what we can, if we wish, attain our human perfection under Islamic teachings. We should, therefore, know what a perfect man is, how he looks spiritually and intellectually, and what his peculiarities are, so that we may improve ourselves, our society and other individuals based on that model. But if we do not know what a perfect human being is in Islam, surely we cannot become a perfect Muslim, or even a relatively perfect human being.

Link

Here is another source...

Also known as the perfect man, the universal man is the brightest mirror of god's act, names, attributes, and even his essential qualities that qualify him as god. There is a rule that when an attribute is mentioned without it being specified who the one or ones that have it are, then such an attribute belongs to the one who has it at the most perfect level. So, when we talk about the universal man, we mean, first of all, prophet muhammed, ....

Link

There is so much more to this belief of theirs, and it matters to them, regardless our belief about their 'perfect man'.

God Bless You

David

[Mr Baldy]

John 5:43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.

There is a common belief that John 5:43 is referring to the Antichrist. This verse is NOT referring to the coming Antichrist.

If one were to read the entire passages of Scripture surrounding this statement that Jesus made; one would see that Jesus was referring to "anyone" who would come in their own name - the Jews would receive them, but because Jesus came in His Father's name they rejected Him.

John 5:43 is not evidence that the Jews will accept a False Christ.

[1whowaits]

If the AC were Islamic, even if the muslims could worship a man (a pretty big stretch), they would have to worship a man who openly declared himself to be above Allah, which would be a heresy worthy of death. Dan 11 states that the AC will exalt and magnify himself above every god, which would include Allah, which would be contrary to the very tenets of Islam. The statements of Dan 11 would appear to rule out the AC being a muslim at the time he has authority and proclaims himself to be god over every other god, what he does is totally inconsistent with Islam.

The reference to some of the Jews accepting the AC is in Dan 11- 'with flattery he will corrupt those who have violated the covenant, but the people who know their God will firmly resist him.' While this passage may have had a partial fullfillment in AE, the passage that follows this verse refers to the time of the end, which would not be the time of AE but a future time.

Also Zech 11 refers to the 'worthless shepherd' that has wounds that could be consistent with those of the AC, the use of the term shepherd could suggest that the AC will be a leader in Israel, a 'shepherd' of Israel.

While Gog-Magog and armageddon do have similarities, they do have significant differences, Gog is killed and buried in a mass grave while the AC is captured and cast alive into the lake of fire, 2 different individuals are being discussed. As there are 2 different evil leaders associated with the time of the end, one certainly could be Islamic, most likely the one who leads the Islamic nations at Gog, which would not be the AC.

[Douggg]

the Jews will never accept a muslim as being their messiah.

Where is the scriptural support for stating that the Jews will accept the Antichrist as their Messiah ... Islamic or otherwise?

Is "666" associated with any gentile in the bible (old testament) ? Adonikam and Solomon.

Judas, the son of perdition (like title of the AC). Was he a Jew?

Doug L.

[Douggg]

Where is the scriptural support for stating that the Jews will accept the Antichrist as their Messiah ... Islamic or otherwise?

While this scripture does not indicate ethnicity, I have always seen it as an indication that the Jews would not be too picky when it came to accepting the antichrist.

Joh 5:43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.

ditto. The Jews are expecting their messiah to meet the requirements that have been out lined by the Rambam. The Jewish messiah must be of the tribe of David.

Doug L.

[Douggg]

[quote="Exit40"]Hi David, I have had many many discussions with muslims about their endtimes views and couldn't make them correlate with the bible end-times.

In order to have a muslim AC, Gog/Magog would have to happen at the end of the seven years. I believe that Islam will basically be destroyed right before the seven years. The AC showing up immediately afterward. The two feasts in Ezekiel 39 bracket the 7 years of the AC.




Doug L.

[shorttribber]

In order to have a muslim AC, Gog/Magog would have to happen at the end of the seven years. I believe that Islam will basically be destroyed right before the seven years. The AC showing up immediately afterward. The two feasts in Ezekiel 39 bracket the 7 years of the AC.

Doug L.

The "LAST HALF" that's all that's left IMO, time for the "man of war" to show up get ready!

[Exit40]

Hi Doug.

Hi David, I have had many many discussions with muslims about their endtimes views and couldn't make them correlate with the bible end-times.

Not surprising as many things do not line up. But some do. Honestly, for a while now I've been reassessing because of this hitch in my gittalong, because of these things that don't line up. I'm not ready to throw the baby out just yet, but I am draining the tub to get a better look at him. Can't think of any other cliche's to throw at ya. I've had a bit of a revelation this morning regarding the false prophet that has left me, I really don't know what to say at this point as I am , well, bewildered, but very much at Peace. Back to Scripture I go. Hope to talk with you all soon.

God Bless You Brother

David

[Douggg]

Hi Doug.

Hi David, I have had many many discussions with muslims about their endtimes views and couldn't make them correlate with the bible end-times.

Not surprising as many things do not line up. But some do. Honestly, for a while now I've been reassessing because of this hitch in my gittalong, because of these things that don't line up. I'm not ready to throw the baby out just yet, but I am draining the tub to get a better look at him. Can't think of any other cliche's to throw at ya. I've had a bit of a revelation this morning regarding the false prophet that has left me, I really don't know what to say at this point as I am , well, bewildered, but very much at Peace. Back to Scripture I go. Hope to talk with you all soon.

God Bless You Brother

David

Hi David, here is a possible option to consider. The AC, the man, will be a Jew because 666 associated with his name, which the bible states is the number of the name of a man, a very unique number, is found in the bible associated only with two Jews, Solomon and Adonikam.

However, the AC when he recovers from the deadly wound, he then becomes known as the beast from the bottomless pit. The beast from the bottomless pit was there in the pit back in John's day. That beast whoever is it may not be a Jew but associated with
a historical figure which is an Assyrian, such as, Antiochus Ephanese. There is the possibilty that Antiochus was at some point possess by the spirit of a long dead Nephillim.... who could even be the literal offspring of Satan. Nephilim were the product of fallen angels producing human like offspring by mating with earth women, like back in the days of the flood and afterward.

So, in this line of thinking, the AC would be a Jew, who at some point is incarnated by a Nephilim spirit, a demon, who's roots go back to Assyria and Babylon. The beast from the bottomless pit has no connection to Islam (the Assyrian), because he is so ancient. There is some stories from ancient Iraq, Sumerians, called the legend of Gilgamesh, that I researched but the story got too convoluted for my tastes. I thought Nimrod was a good candidate to be the offspring of Satan, until I read in the Bible that Nimrod was begotten by Cush. Any discussion of the AC must ultimately include a discusssion of the beast from the bottomless pit.

Doug L.

[Exit40]

Hi Doug.

Any discussion of the AC must ultimately include a discusssion of the beast from the bottomless pit.

And the false prophet, I'm sure.

God Bless You

David

[jgilberAZ]

The AC, the man, will be a Jew because 666 associated with his name, which the bible states is the number of the name of a man, a very unique number, is found in the bible associated only with two Jews, Solomon and Adonikam.

Not quite.

The 666 "associated with Solomon" is actually the quantity of gold that the gentile kings / arabs brought to him.

Now the weight of gold that came to Solomon in one year was 666 talents of gold, besides that which the explorers and merchants brought. And all the kings of Arabia and the governors of the land brought gold and silver to Solomon. [snip] And all the kings of the earth sought the presence of Solomon to hear his wisdom, which God had put into his mind. Every one of them brought his present, articles of silver and of gold, garments, myrrh, spices, horses, and mules, so much year by year. (2 Chron 9:13-14, 23-24)

And, the number of the sons of Adonikam depends on where you look:

The sons of Adonikam, 666. (Ezra 2:13)

The sons of Adonikam, 667. (Neh 7:18)

- Jeff

[clang]

This is a great thread and I hope many others will contribute their thoughts. I also am leaning toward an islamic ac. Even if the muslims in the middle east are completely wiped
out in earlier battles, that would still leave several hundred million, mostly in Asia. If we are truly close to the Lord's return, Islam seems very likely to me.

Hi clang, there are two fatal flaws to there beign an islamic ac. One, the Jews will never accept a muslim as being their messiah. As well as, the west has no use for Islam.

The main flaw is who is going to worship a muslim who claims to be god... the muslims?

No, the muslims are opposed to any man claiming that he is god. That's there big objection to what we Christians believe about Jesus.

Doug L.

Dougg, You may very well be right about the Jews and the west not accepting a muslim
leader. However, the Bible does say there will be a strong delusion, so strong that some
of the elect could be deceived. I know that is not an exact quote but the message is
similar. Also, look at what is going on in America and how easily many were duped into
voting for Obama and this satanically influenced congress. If someone shows up and
starts to perform signs and wonders, many will be deceived even if it is a muslim.
Or I could be way off base.

[Douggg]

Not quite.

The 666 "associated with Solomon" is actually the quantity of gold that the gentile kings / arabs brought to him.

Hi Jeff, that leaves us with one guy then.

And, the number of the sons of Adonikam depends on where you look:

The sons of Adonikam, 666. (Ezra 2:13)

The sons of Adonikam, 667. (Neh 7:18)

Since the 667 problably includes Adonikam himself, that leaves his eldest son as being #666. Which may be the name of the future Antichrist.

Doug L.

[water]

It is great to see these discussions still going on. Remember what Jesus warned us about...the great deception...so great that even the elect would be deceived, if such were possible (thankfully not).

You have to use scripture like a transparency, overlaying it on reality. Only when you do this with scripture will you see reality through prophecy.

What religion today is out to butcher God's people (the Jews and Christians)? I don't see any Catholic priests taping bombs to children and sending them into murder countless innocents.

What does the Bible say defines the spirit of the antichrist? That which denies Jesus is the Son of God! While Catholicism may hold some traditions that are not entirely Biblical (as many denominations do), they are not sawing the necks of those who claim Jesus is the Son of God.

Is it the Spanish Inquisition that is beheading those who refuse Jesus today? Beheading is THE MO of the beast religion per Revelation.

Is there another religion on this planet today that comes anywhere near...within a million miles...of matching the beast religion of Revelation? Do you think another will pop up soon that does? One that has billions of adherents? What johnny-come-lately religion is going to sprout here with seconds left on the prophetic clock that has a chance of qualifying as the great deception? Why not just treat this like a good city detective would and stick to what we see and know?

Here are some other points to consider:

Chapter Eighteen - A Summary Of Comparisons Between The Islamic And Biblical Narrative Of The End-Times

You can find this book here:

http://www.amazon.com/Islamic-Antichrist-Shocking-Truth-Nature/dp/1935071122/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1284086113&sr=8-1

So in summary we conclude this section with a final review of the many startling similarities that exist between the biblical narrative of the last-days and the Islamic narrative of the same period.

• Bible: The Antichrist is an unparalleled political, military and religious leader that will that emerge in the last-days.
• Islam: The Mahdi is an unparalleled political, military and religious leader that will emerge in the last-days.


• Bible: the False Prophet is a secondary prominent figure that will emerge in the last-days who will support the Antichrist.
• Islam: the Muslim Jesus is a secondary prominent figure that will emerge in the last-days to support the Mahdi.


• Bible: The Antichrist and the False Prophet together will have a powerful army that will do great damage to the earth in an effort to subdue every nation and dominate the World.
• Islam: The Mahdi and the Muslim Jesus will have a powerful army that will attempt to control every nation of the earth and dominate the World.


• Bible: The False Prophet is described essentially as a dragon in lamb’s clothing.
• Islam: The Muslim Jesus literally comes bearing the name of the one that the world knows as “The Lamb of God: Jesus Christ.” Yet the Muslim Jesus comes to murder all those who do not submit to Islam.


• Bible: The Antichrist and the False Prophet establish a New World Order.
• Islam: The Mahdi and the Muslim Jesus establish a New World Order.


• Bible: The Antichrist and the False Prophet institute new laws for the whole earth.
• Islam: The Mahdi and the Muslim Jesus institute Islamic law all over the earth.


• Bible: The Antichrist is said to “change the times.”
• Islam: It is quite certain that if the Mahdi established Islam all over the earth, he would discontinue the use of Saturday and Sunday as the weekend or days of rest but rather Friday, the holy day of Islam. Also, he would most certainly eliminate the Gregorian calendar (A.D.), and replace it with the Islamic calendar (A. H.) as is used in every Islamic country.


• Bible: The Antichrist and the False Prophet will both be powerful religious leaders who will attempt to institute a universal world religion.
• Islam: The Mahdi and the Muslim Jesus will institute Islam as the only religion in the earth.


• Bible: The Antichrist and the False Prophet will execute anyone who does not submit to their world religion.
• Islam: Likewise, the Mahdi and the Muslim Jesus will execute anyone who does not submit to Islam.


• Bible: The Antichrist and the False Prophet will specifically use beheading as the primary means of execution for non-conformists.
• Islam: The Mahdi and the Muslim Jesus will use the Islamic practice of beheading for executions.


• Bible: The Antichrist and the False Prophet will have a specific agenda to kill as many Jews as possible.
• Islam: The Mahdi and the Muslim Jesus will kill as many Jews as is possible until only a few are left hiding behind rocks and trees.


• Bible: The Antichrist and the False Prophet will attack to conquer and seize Jerusalem.
• Islam: The Mahdi and the Muslim Jesus will attack to re-conquer and seize Jerusalem for Islam.


• Bible: The Antichrist will set himself up in the Jewish temple as his seat of authority.
• Islam: The Mahdi will establish the Islamic Caliphate from Jerusalem.


• Bible: The False Prophet is said to do many miracles to deceive as many as possible into supporting the Antichrist.
• Islam: The Mahdi himself is said to control the weather and the crops. His face is said to glow. We can also assume that since Jesus is viewed as having been empowered by Allah to work miracles when he was here on earth the first time, he will most likely be expected to continue to do so when he returns.


• Bible: The Antichrist is described as riding on a white horse in the Book of Revelation
• Islam: The Mahdi is described as riding on a white horse (ironically from the same verse).


• Bible: The Antichrist is said to make a peace treaty with Israel for seven years.
• Islam: The Mahdi is said to make a peace treaty through a Jew (specifically a Levite) for exactly seven years.


• Bible: Jesus the Jewish Messiah will return to defend the Jews in Israel from a military attack from a vast coalition of nations led by the Antichrist and the False Prophet.
• Islam: The Dajjal, the Islamic Antichrist will gain a great Jewish following and claim to be Jesus Christ and fight against the Mahdi and the Muslim Jesus.


• Bible: The antichrist spirit specifically denies the most unique and central doctrines of Christianity, namely the trinity, the incarnation and the substitutionary death of Jesus on the cross.
• Islam: Islam doctrinally and spiritually specifically denies the most unique and central doctrines of Christianity, namely the trinity, the incarnation and the substitutionary death of Jesus on the cross.


• Bible: The primary warning of Jesus and the Apostle Paul was to warn Christians of the abundance of deceit and deception in the last-days.
• Islam: Islam is perhaps the only religion in the earth that practices deceit as one of its tools to assist its own ascendancy. It actually has a specific doctrine which allows and even calls for deception to be used to achieve its desired end.


• Bible: The specific nations pictured in the Bible as being part of the final empire of the Antichrist are all Islamic nations.
• Islam: All Muslims are commanded to give their allegiance to The Mahdi as the final Caliph and Imam (leader) of Islam.


• Bible: From the Bible and History we learn that the final Antichrist empire will be a revived version of the Empire that succeeds the Roman Empire
• Islam: The Empire that succeeded the Roman/Byzantine Empire was the Islamic Ottoman Empire


• Bible: When Antichrist emerges, there will already be some form of system in place that will be poised to receive him as a Savior and to give allegiance to him.
• Islam is already the second largest religion and will at present growth rates become the largest religion within a few decades. Islam is awaiting the coming of the Mahdi with a universal anticipation.

[water]

Can you imagine that in today's world the leader of a major world power would say such a thing as this?

Democracy is only the train we board until we reach our goal. The mosques are our barracks, the minarets are our bayonets, the domes are our helmets, and the faithful are our soldiers.

What country is this? What is the goal cited? Who said it?

http://gatesofvienna.blogspot.com/2010/09/ottoman-empire-reborn.html


We have a religion today that has the same finger print of the beast religion.

We have a major world power lead by a man who wishes to revive the empire than defeated the Romans.

What other evidence to do we need to issue an arrest warrant? The peace treaty? The temple? All we have to do is wait and see who brings it all together (and I am not talking about Obama). Peace and temples are already high on the agenda (and the Sanhedrin are back at it today working on the same).

Read this about the temple

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=106055

What about Daniel 9:26? Read this:

http://www.joelstrumpet.com/?p=2440

All we have to do is wait and watch, as the Lord commanded.

Our mission is to have this knowledge handy when it comes into play, we will have the greatest opportunity to witness in all of history, save when Jesus was here doing his thing.

[1whowaits]

Islam does not have the fingerprint of the beasts religion. The FP sets up and image of the beast and forces men to worship the image, worshipping any image of a man is completely contrary to Islam.

The AC exalts himself over every god, which would include Allah, which would be completely contrary to Islam, no muslim can be above Allah.

The AC sets himself up in the Hebrew temple and proclaims himself to be god, which would be completely contrary to Islam, no muslim can call himself god over all other gods, and it would be unlikely that he would do this in a Hebrew Temple.

The AC conquers the kings of the south, Egypt, Lybia and Ethiopia specifically, which are muslim nations, after they attack him. If the AC were the muslim Madhi why would the kings of the south, the muslim nations, attack their own leader? They would if the AC were not muslim.

The religion of the AC appears to be a new religion, based on the worship of the AC himself, the image of the AC, and the worship of the Dragon, Satan. The religon of the AC is not consistent with Islam.

But there is a leader in prophetic scripture that does lead what are now mainly muslim armies against Israel who is defeated by God, a man called Gog. As this man leads a mainly muslim force, most likely he himself is a muslim.

Those looking for a muslim AC could be decieved into believing that armageddon had occurred when a muslim leader appears at a lesser event such as Gog-Magog and is defeated. The way would then be cleared for the one to whom Satan will give his power.

Islam is not consistent with the religion of the AC but it could be used as part of the deception of Satan. Scripture is our guide, if something is not consistent with scripture then it is not true and can be used for deception, and Islam being the religion of the AC is not consistent with what scripture describes.

[Exit40]

Hi Water. Informative post about the similarities. I need to point out, Joel's target guy Adnan Oktar, or Harun Yayha is a proven charlatan. He attracts only the outlanders of Turkish islam. Plus, he has a following but hardly any universal support within Turkey as his brand of islam is simply, he is the mahdi. He is working on his own money, which will run out at a convenient time. Hardly anyone believes him there outside of his cult followers, he is a distraction, a cult leader, yet 'they' allow him to be used, as at this point he is useful. Joel needs to shape up on this matter. Discard this charlatan, he is a distraction. The real power in this islamist movement is Fethullah Gulen, particularly his followers, who have a giant business conglomerate to include many media outlets, press like todays Zaman, and TV stations, business enterprises all over Turkey reaching out into the rest of the world, hundred of islamic schools all over the world including right here in America under the guise of charter schools. The business guys are called the Anatolian Tigers, and frankly, it's hard to chase it all down, but Gulen movement is influencing them as well as the govt there, with some twenty million followers worldwide, centered in Turkey, a conservative estimate. Many business relations are close to the PM himself, and his close associates, and through his influence they exceed and abound. It has been hard to track down the connection between Turkey's leadership and Gulen, his followers, and his enterprises. It is well hidden, but may I suggest you take a look at the Calek Group for starters, and their endevours within Turkey. They are well financed, deep connections to the AKP, board member, maybe CEO now, is Erdogans son in law. Turkey is quietly becoming Chicago style politics, Turkish islamic style. A nation to watch as they are pushing islamic values worldwide with their soft power, zero problems with neighbors foreign policy designed by FM Davutoglu. Soft power means a Turkish adaptation of business networking, relaxing of tariffs, visa requirements, and pursuing their commonalities of their cultures, islam they discuss aplenty to see who will be, can be the Caliph, and all that it means to them, alll of islam. Who better than Turkey to present islam to the west, our gentle secular islamic NATO partner for so long, yet they commit no combat troops to the fight against terrorism, against muslims. ' A muslim would not do this '. Iran is now in tow to them, mostly, and if I am right so is Hezbollah and Syria. They are working on Hamas, those useful jerks who are so willing to die, to get them to assimilate with Fatah, so Palestine can present a unified front, in the face of Israel and the negotiations. But if you are talking about neo Ottomanism, I am with you. The brand new face of the islamic caliphate, and the millet system reborn, hidden at first. There is hardly the power struggle you speak of in the OIC. The Sec Gen is easily replaced if he gets out of line, with another Turk likely, or one of their choosing. FM Davutoglu is the one to watch. Many in the islamic world now answer to him, not Erdogan. Watch this, it's real.

God Bless You

David

[Exit40]

Hi 1whowaits. Well, here we go again. I love you so much, my Brother. You have great points to discuss, and they are exceptionally relevant, except the worlds scenery seems to be changing in regards to what the muslims will actually believe. First I want to point out the muslim outrage at the burning of their book, and right behind that is the desecration of their prophet mohammed. They believe he is a higher prophet than Jesus whom they consider to be a great prophet who will return and convert to islam, leading many in his way. Mohammed is the FINAL prophet from their god, Christianity and Judaism are in error according to ancient and modern interpretations of the koran. And so their condescension towards us. They believe they are the final authority in matters about God, can you see this about them ? If a muslim leader comes along, we have a few candidates by the way, who appears, doesn't even have to be close to their prophecy, well maybe somewhat close, muslims in general will flock to him. They are a cult, my friend, who can figure what they will do. Yet we have a clue though, don't we.

You say , and it is a common belief, they will not worship a man or an image. I believe they will, as they believe mohammed was a perfect man, and one will likely come along soon who will fill this for them. They are a cult and a conspiracy, and will promote this one. They will worship him, they will be led to do so. They are blind sheep, following a worthless shepherd. They have one now, their prophet of old. They will not be able to do anything other than follow him until the new one comes, it is their nature. They defend him ruthlessly, how would they not do so if one came with wonders, replacing their beloved and worshiped prophet of old. But that is a speculation, amongst many others, although the possibility is very real. Truthfully, they are like Christians who don't read their own book, but go to mosques' and listen to their imams, as we listen to our pastors and preachers. But, they are bound more so than Christians to believe what they are told there. In particular, as I'm sure you will begin to see if you have not already, their current need for conquest of the world for the sake of islam. This is a very real threat in our time I'm sure you can see. Regarding muslims attacking other muslims, when have they ever not done that if they believe their islam is the better one ?

But, the issues we have discussed before are becoming, to me, more relevant to the actual Prophecies. The discrepancies are unavoidable, as we have discussed, and as yet I can't define them to anyone's satisfaction, especially my own. I am beginning to believe there may be a time period between gog/magog and the final day, likely in the neighborhood of forty years. Still thinking about that though. The issue I continually deal with is when the Lord says, then they will know I am God, being a Christian I believe Him, but maybe others may not. Hard to believe after a possibly supernatural destruction the many would not believe, or maybe it's just the Sampson option.

It's late for me, running out of gas on this and confusing myself with swirling thoughts. I hope to discuss this further , and learn and maybe teach, a few relevant things.

God Bless You, My Brother

David

[drdos]

Islam is not consistent with the religion of the AC but it could be used as part of the deception of Satan. Scripture is our guide, if something is not consistent with scripture then it is not true and can be used for deception, and Islam being the religion of the AC is not consistent with what scripture describes.

Right On Right On Right On... The AC will only serve Himself. Possessed by Satan, who will Satan worship? Himself, but islam will serve this man. The religion of Islam is a lie from the devil to be used to deceive the world and blind unbelievers from the path to Our Heavenly Father. Also to be in conflict with God's Elect... Will the AC be a muslim or coming from a muslim country or from the birth line of or shadow of Nimrod\Lamech\Cain? I think we can back that up from scripture.

"Nimrod. This personal type of the Antichrist is deeply interesting and remarkable full in its details. His exploits are recorded in Gen. 10 and 11, and it is most significant that his person and history are there introduced at the point immediately preceding God's call of Abraham from among the Gentiles and His bringing him into the promised land. Thus will history repeat itself. Just before God again gathers Abraham's descendants from out of the lands of the Gentiles (many, perhaps the majority of whom, will be found dwelling in Chalden, in Assyria, the "north country" see Isa. 11:11; Jer. 3:18, etc.) there will arise one who will fill out the picture here typically outlined by Nimrod.
Let us examine the details of this type. First, the meaning of his name is most suggestive. Nimrod signifies "The Rebel". A fit designation was this for a man that foreshadowed the Lawless One, who shall oppose and exalt himself above all that is called God (2 Thess. 2:4), and who shall "stand up against the Prince of princes" (Dan. 8:25). Second, we are told that he was a son of Cush - "And Cush begat Nimrod" (Gen. 10:8), and Cush was a son of Ham, who was curst by Noah. Nimrod, then, was not a descendant of Shem, from whom Christ sprang, nor of Japheth; but he came from Ham. It is remarkable that these men who typified the Antichrist came from the evil line. Third, we are told that Nimrod "began to be a mighty one in the earth" (Gen. 10:8). Four times over is this term "mighty" connected with this one who prefigured him "whose coming is after the working of Satan, with all power and signs and lying wonders" (2 Thess. 2:9). But observe that it is first said, "He began to be mighty", which seems to suggest the idea that he struggled for the pre-eminence and obtained it by mere force of will. How this corresponds with the fact that the Man of Sin first appears as "the little horn" and by force of conquest attains to the position of King of kings needs only to be pointed out. It is also significant that the Hebrew word for "mighty" in Gen. 10:9 is "gibbor" which is translated several times "Chief" and "Chieftain". Fourth, it is also added, "Nimrod the mighty hunter before the Lord" which means that he pushed his designs in brazen defiance of his Maker. The words "mighty hunter before the Lord" are found twice in Gen. 10:9. This repetition in so short a narrative is highly significant. If we compare the expression with a similar one in Gen. 6:11, - "The earth also (in the days of Noah) was corrupt before God" - the impression conveyed is that this "Rebel" pursued his impious designs in open defiance of the Almighty. The contents of Gen. 11 abundantly confirm this interpretation. In like manner, of the Antichrist it is written, "And the King shall do according to his will, and he shall exalt himself and magnify himself above every god (ruler), and shall speak marvelous things against the God of gods" (Dan. 11:36). Fifth, Nimrod was a "Man of Blood". In 1 Chron. 1:10 - "And Cush begat Nimrod; he began to be mighty upon the earth". The Chaldea paraphrase of this verse says, "Cush begat Nimrod who began to prevail in wickedness for he slew innocent blood and rebelled against Jehovah". This, coupled with the expression "a mighty Hunter before the Lord", suggests that he relentlessly sought out and slew God's people. As such, he accurately portrayed the bloody and deceitful Man (Psa. 5:6), the violent Man (Psa. 140:1). Sixth, Nimrod was a King - "the beginning of his kingdom was Babel" (Gen. 10:10. Thus he was King of Babylon, which is also one of the many titles of the Antichrist (Isa. 14:4). In the verses which follow in Gen. 10 we read, "He went out into Assyria and builded Ninevah, and the city Rehoboth, and Calah", etc. (Gen. 10:11). From these statements it is evident that Nimrod's ambition was to establish a world empire. Seventh, mark his inordinate desire for fame. His consuming desire was to make for himself a name. Here again the antitype marvellously corresponds with the type, for the Man of Sin is expressly denominated "King over all the children of pride" (John 41:34).
What is recorded in Gen. 10 about Nimrod supplies the key to the first half of Gen. 11 which tells of the building of the Tower of Babel. Gen. 10:10 informs us that the beginning of Nimrod's kingdom was Babel. In the language of that day Babel meant "the gate of God", but afterwards, because of the judgment which the Lord there inflicted, it came to mean "Confusion". That at the time Nimrod founded Babel this word signified "the gate (the figure of official position) of God", intimates that he not only organized an imperial government over which he presided as king, but that he also instituted a new and idolatrous system of worship. If the type be perfect, and we are fully assured it is so, then, as the Lawless One will yet do, Nimrod demanded and received Divine honors. In all probability, it was at this point that idolatry was introduced.
Nimrod is not directly mentioned in Gen. 11, but from the statements made about him in chap. 10 there cannot be any doubt that he was the "Chief" and "King" who organized and headed the movement and rebellion there described: "And they said, Go to, let us build us a city and a tower, whose top may reach unto heaven; and let us make us a name, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth" (11:4). Here we behold a most blatant defiance of God, a deliberate refusal to obey His commands given through Noah - "Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth" (9:1). But they said, "Let us make us a name lest we be scattered upon the face of the whole earth". As we have seen, Nimrod's ambition was to establish a world-empire. To accomplish this two things, at least, were necessary. First, a center, a great headquarters; and second, a motive for the inspiration and encouragement of his followers. The former was furnished in the city of Babylon: the latter was to be supplied in the "let us make us a name". It was inordinate desire for fame. The idea of the Tower (considered in the light of its setting) seems that of strength, a stronghold, rather than eminence.
To sum up. In Nimrod and his schemes we behold Satan's initial attempt to raise up an universal ruler of men. In his inordinate desire for fame, in the mighty power that he wielded, in his ruthless and brutal methods, in his blatant defiance of the Creator, in his founding of the kingdom of Babel, in his assuming to himself Divine honors, in the fact that the Holy Spirit has placed the record of these things just before the inspired account of God's bringing Abraham into Canaan - pointing forward to the re-gathering of Israel in Palestine, immediately after the overthrows of the Lawless One - and finally, in the Divine destruction of his kingdom - described in the words, "Let Us go down and there confound their language" (Gen. 11:7), which so marvellously pictures the descent of Christ from heaven to vanquish His impious rival - we cannot fail to see that we have a wonderfully complete typical picture of the person, the work, and the destruction of the Antichrist."
http://www.biblebelievers.com/Pink/antichrist15.htm

[Exit40]

Hi drdos. Interesting summation, but maybe jumping to some conclusions with words like suggests, intimate, type. That's the problem with types, shadows, we have to put in some speculation to achieve a desired result. Oh...

Here again the antitype marvellously corresponds with the type, for the Man of Sin is expressly denominated "King over all the children of pride" (John 41:34).

John has only 21 Chapters, not sure where to go with this one.

God Bless You

David

[drdos]

Hi drdos. Interesting summation, but maybe jumping to some conclusions with words like suggests, intimate, type. That's the problem with types, shadows, we have to put in some speculation to achieve a desired result. Oh...

Here again the antitype marvellously corresponds with the type, for the Man of Sin is expressly denominated "King over all the children of pride" (John 41:34).

John has only 21 Chapters, not sure where to go with this one.

God Bless You

David

haha sorry I guess I didn't vet this link very well. I tried reading all of it but scanned some parts overlooking errors obviously. I do believe though that Nimrod was an image of the AC to come. The scripture ref is from Job 41:34 not John.

[Exit40]

Yeah, maybe a partial image anyway. All the types have the characteristics, but the ultimate fulfillment happens when the Lord states it will. Interesting chapter, Job 41.

Job 41:1 ¶ Canst thou draw out leviathan with an hook? or his tongue with a cord [which] thou lettest down?

In reference to this verse ?

Eze 38:4 And I will turn thee back, and put hooks into thy jaws, and I will bring thee forth,

Could suggest the AC is actually gog, and gog appears to be a muslim leader, if this is in our time. Maybe.

God Bless

David

[drdos]

Yeah, maybe a partial image anyway. All the types have the characteristics, but the ultimate fulfillment happens when the Lord states it will. Interesting chapter, Job 41.

Job 41:1 ¶ Canst thou draw out leviathan with an hook? or his tongue with a cord [which] thou lettest down?

In reference to this verse ?

Eze 38:4 And I will turn thee back, and put hooks into thy jaws, and I will bring thee forth,

Could suggest the AC is actually gog, and gog appears to be a muslim leader, if this is in our time. Maybe.

God Bless

David

Yep Yep... Thanks for your thoughts David. Blessings... Vince

[water]

Hi Water. Informative post about the similarities. I need to point out, Joel's target guy Adnan Oktar, or Harun Yayha is a proven charlatan.

Agreed. I view the significance as being with the Sanhedrin and the strides towards making the temple a reality, and that they are getting in bed with Muslims to do so. Talk about a deal with the devil!

[water]

Islam does not have the fingerprint of the beasts religion. The FP sets up and image of the beast and forces men to worship the image, worshipping any image of a man is completely contrary to Islam.

The AC exalts himself over every god, which would include Allah, which would be completely contrary to Islam, no muslim can be above Allah.

The AC sets himself up in the Hebrew temple and proclaims himself to be god, which would be completely contrary to Islam, no muslim can call himself god over all other gods, and it would be unlikely that he would do this in a Hebrew Temple.

The AC conquers the kings of the south, Egypt, Lybia and Ethiopia specifically, which are muslim nations, after they attack him. If the AC were the muslim Madhi why would the kings of the south, the muslim nations, attack their own leader? They would if the AC were not muslim.

The religion of the AC appears to be a new religion, based on the worship of the AC himself, the image of the AC, and the worship of the Dragon, Satan. The religon of the AC is not consistent with Islam.

But there is a leader in prophetic scripture that does lead what are now mainly muslim armies against Israel who is defeated by God, a man called Gog. As this man leads a mainly muslim force, most likely he himself is a muslim.

Those looking for a muslim AC could be decieved into believing that armageddon had occurred when a muslim leader appears at a lesser event such as Gog-Magog and is defeated. The way would then be cleared for the one to whom Satan will give his power.

Islam is not consistent with the religion of the AC but it could be used as part of the deception of Satan. Scripture is our guide, if something is not consistent with scripture then it is not true and can be used for deception, and Islam being the religion of the AC is not consistent with what scripture describes.

Remember, the AC is not revealed for who he is out of the gate, which nullifies many of your points.

Regarding the nations involved, there are monstrous divides between sects of Islam and we already see today that countries over ancient Persia and Babylon see Saudi and her neighbors as polluted, heretical Muslims.

I am far too busy these days to really get into these debates and respectfully discuss each point, so I apologize that I am not being fair to you and others who have great points and questions. I just wanted to throw out some of the things I believe are true for consideration.

I think we all have to agree that we don't know exactly how it will play out and until it does, we must simply watch as carefully as possible.

Until then, Islam is my prime suspect when I consider scripture and the world around me.

[jgilberAZ]

Until then, Islam is my prime suspect when I consider scripture and the world around me.

Agreed.

Middle-East vs. Europe ... no contest ... Middle-East.
Pretrib vs. Prewrath ... no contest ... Prewrath.

I see VERY LITTLE (and that's being kind) scriptural support for a pretrib rapture or for a European Antichrist.


- Jeff

[1whowaits]

I would agree that there are certain similarities in Islam with what is described in scripture. But noting the similarities is not enough, for a more complete picture of what is being described in scripture one must also reconcile or explain the differences noted in scripture.

This is true for several prophetic subjects, Gog-magog and armageddon have many similarities but at the same time they have differences that cannot be reasonably reconciled, the logical conclusion being that they are not the same event. (Gog is killed and buried in a maas grave while the AC is captured and cast alive into the lake of fire).

The ENP and the confirmed covenant may have some similarities but it is increasingly apparent that there are differences that cannot be reconciled (this is not the midpoint of the 70th week).

The same is true for Islam being the religiom of the AC, there are some similarities but there are irreconcilable differences, a muslim cannot place himself above Allah, he would no longer be a muslim.

That is not to say that the AC cannot come from a muslim background, he could, but once he proclaims himself to be over all gods including Allah, once he makes everyone worship his image, once people worship the AC and Satan, by definition the AC has his own religion and that religion is not Islam.

And that is not to say that muslims will not worship the AC, most likely most will worship him (or be killed), but then they will have forsaken Islam en masse, which would would not make much difference except to say that they are no longer muslims.

I believe that Islam will continue to grow and dominate and a leader will arise that will appear to be an AC like figure. But this leader will be killed and Islam discredited, and many will believe scripture has been fulfilled and armaggedon has occurred, only to be discouraged when Jesus is nowhere to be seen, when Jesus does not return at that time and they fall away from the faith.

Rev 22 includes a warning that there will be consequences to those who add anything to the prophecies or take away anything from the prophecies. This would appear to be directed not at believers but unbelievers which would suggest that Satan will use the prophecies to deceive by either adding or subtracting from what is written, therefore only what is written and everything that is written is our guard against deception.

Therefore it is not enough to note similarities in scripture, all the differences must also be taken into consideration, nothing should be added but also nothing should be left out and not accounted for.

[water]

The same is true for Islam being the religiom of the AC, there are some similarities but there are irreconcilable differences, a muslim cannot place himself above Allah, he would no longer be a muslim.

That is not to say that the AC cannot come from a muslim background, he could, but once he proclaims himself to be over all gods including Allah, once he makes everyone worship his image, once people worship the AC and Satan, by definition the AC has his own religion and that religion is not Islam.

Please consider the following, which is taken from a book I linked in a post above:

You can also read an earlier version of the book online and free here:

http://answering-islam.org/Authors/JR/Future/index.htm

The Antichrist Himself Demands Worship

Perhaps the most strongest argument that could be made against the idea that the system of Islam will fulfill the role of the Antichrist system is the fact that despite all of the specific parallels and similarities between the two, the simple fact is that the Antichrist demands personal worship and surely Islam does not allow for the worship of any man. Indeed this is the big problem that Islam has with Christianity. While I am plainly speculating, I believe that a thoughtful examination of this future scenario can clear up any doubts that might attempt to negate the notion that Islam is the Antichrist system.

The first point that needs to be remembered is that while the Antichrist accomplishes much in the first half of the seven years of his rule, he does not actually demand to be worshiped until after the middle point of this seven years. It will not be until after the Antichrist has achieved several significant military victories and gained a great measure of allegiance that he will invade Israel and establish his position of authority in the Jerusalem temple. It is at this time that Paul the Apostle explains that Antichrist will “set himself up in God's temple, proclaiming himself to be God.” (2 Thessalonians 2:4) This is also the time that Paul said that, “the man of lawlessness is revealed.” (2 Thessalonians 2:3) While many Christians with discernment will already have recognized the Antichrist by this point, it will not be until the middle of the “week” or seven years that the Bible says he will be fully “revealed.”

We need to understand that the Antichrist will not demand worship until well after the fact that he has been universally acknowledged and accepted by the Islamic world as the Mahdi. The Imams, mullahs, sheikhs, and the Ayatollahs; all of the world Islamic leadership, will have given their allegiance to the Mahdi. To deny him after this point would be the ultimate shame for Islam. It would come at a time when Islam will universally be experiencing its greatest rush of vindication and fulfillment. In the midst of all of this incredible elation, to suddenly declare and acknowledge that an absolute evil charlatan has deceived the entire Islamic world would simply be unthinkable. Once the deception has taken place and it will be impossible to undo. The hook will have been set.

There will be other very important factors at play here as well. Throughout this time period, the False Prophet, whom the Islamic World will believe to be Jesus, will be working as the Antichrist’s miracle-working “campaign manager” as it were. As Paul the Apostle says:

The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders, and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness. 2 Thessalonians 2:9-12

So the followers of the Mahdi/Antichrist are already in a deep spiritual state of deception. This deception is founded on a combination of factors including some very powerful psychological dynamics as well as the spiritual dimensions that Paul describes above. Because “they refused to love the truth and so be saved… God sends them… all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders… in every sort of evil that deceives… a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie.” This is strong language. And it is God himself who literally sends the delusion. Having already rejected Him, God himself causes them to become cemented in their own poor decisions. It is a very similar picture to the manner in which God hardened Pharaoh’s heart in order that he could accomplish his purposes for his people Israel. Indeed, Pharoah’s Egypt was in this sense a foreshadowing of the coming followers of Antichrist.

The Bible also gives us a hint into one of the specific powerful delusions that will cause the world to awe over the Antichrist. He is said to experience some sort of deadly head wound and yet come back to life. It seems to be some sort of parallel to the death and resurrection of Jesus. The Apostle John, in the Book of Revelation describes this fatal head wound for us:

One of the heads of the beast seemed to have had a fatal wound, but the fatal wound had been healed. The whole world was astonished and followed the beast. Revelation 13:3

Of course this great event will be “promoted” and exploited by The False Prophet/Muslim Jesus:

He exercised all the authority of the first beast on his behalf, and made the earth and its inhabitants worship the first beast, whose fatal wound had been healed. And he performed great and miraculous signs, even causing fire to come down from heaven to earth in full view of men. Because of the signs he was given power to do on behalf of the first beast, he deceived the inhabitants of the earth. He ordered them to set up an image in honor of the beast who was wounded by the sword and yet lived. Revelation 13:12

Exactly what this “fatal head wound” will be is yet to be seen, but it is described in two ways; one, it “seemed” to be fatal and in the next reference it is simply called “fatal.” The Antichrist is then specifically described as, “the beast who was wounded by the sword and yet lived.” Whatever this is specifically referring to, it is undoubtedly referring to some form of false sign that the Antichrist/Mahdi and the False Prophet/False Jesus will use to deceive and capture the wonder of the people. The very “sign” that Jesus pointed to as the greatest vindicating fact of His earthly ministry was His resurrection. The Antichrist, as the ape of Christ may indeed fabricate his own counterfeit resurrection as a response to the central redemptive event of all time.

And of course, another important factor to consider here is that it is will also be at this time that those who do not support the Antichrist/Mahdi or give Him the worship that he demands, will be killed under the new globally enforced Islamic Law.

He was given power to give breath to the image of the first beast, so that it could speak and cause all who refused to worship the image to be killed. Revelation 13:15

Speaking of this specific time, Jesus says:

So when you see standing in the holy place 'the abomination that causes desolation,' spoken of through the prophet Daniel--let the reader understand-- For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now--and never to be equaled again. If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened. Matthew 24:16-22

Clearly, multitudes will be killed. Multitudes will not accept nor worship the Antichrist/Mahdi. I believe that it is quite likely that at this time multitudes of Muslims will see the evil person that the Antichrist really is and will turn to the true Jesus for salvation. Who knows?

So we need to try to envision this total scenario: The Antichrist/Mahdi has emerged. The entire Islamic world acknowledges him as such. Having been primed throughout their entire lives psychologically, doctrinally, and spiritually to receive him, much of the Islamic world rallies to his cause and joins his ranks. He gains several military victories and grows in power as an unparalleled world leader with an equally unparalleled military force under his control. All the people of the earth stand in awe and say, “Who is like him and who can make war with him?” On top of all this, the other man whom the Islamic world has been awaiting, the Muslim Jesus, is also on the scene and is openly declaring the Mahdi to be Allah’s man of the hour. Along with the False Jesus’ stunningly powerful rhetorical skills, he will be performing “all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders” to deceive and hook as many people as possible. Among these great signs is one that seems to utterly amaze the people of the earth. The Antichrist undergoes some form of false resurrection from the dead. He recovers from a “fatal head wound.” And as if all of this is not enough, the Antichrist then proceeds to accomplish that which the Muslim world has been longing and yearning for probably more than any other event conceivable: He utterly defeats Israel and establishes the Islamic Caliphate from Jerusalem. Islam is now vindicated! It is now mere inches away from its absolute final victory over the entire earth. And it is now, in the midst of all this, that the Mahdi throws the ultimate curve ball. In the same way that Christians view Jesus to be the incarnation of God, so the Mahdi now declares himself to be an incarnation of Allah, and as such, he demands to be worshipped. A novel more suspenseful has not been written.

Satan often masks his true identity with something wonderful in order to allure and then hook his victims. In most cases, Satan’s true nature is eventually revealed. When this happens, it is the absolute mercy of God. In such cases, God is giving the deceived person or people the opportunity to see the real face of evil behind all of the make-up. For some, the mask of deception will not be removed in this lifetime. For these, it will be too late. But for those who have the opportunity to see the truth behind what has been holding them sway, as I said, it is the mercy of God to their lives. When the Antichrist demands that he be worshipped, his true identity will be revealed to many. The mask will be removed and many eyes will be opened. For many however, an utter determination to believe in the legitimacy of the Madhi and Islam will overwhelm them. These would rather be swept up into a great deception with an Islamic nature than to acknowledge having been wrong all along. Oddly enough, the choice that will suddenly be set before them will be to worship the Antichrist/Mahdi who will be claiming to be Allah incarnate or to turn to Jesus, who is Yahweh – the God of the Bible, incarnate. All of the excuses that Islam used to cling to in order to reject Jesus, namely that Allah would simply never become a man and draw near to us as such, will be taken away. In allowing the Mahdi to be “revealed,” God will be showing great mercy to the followers of Islam. When the Antichrist is revealed, Islam will finally be fully “unveiled.” This will be a final demonstration of God’s wonderful ability to turn even the most horrific time in history into an opportunity for multitudes to find repentance. He will be giving them one last great opportunity in this world to turn to Jesus. To do so at this time however, will of course mean one thing: Martyrdom.

Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision! For the day of the LORD is near in the valley of decision. Joel 3:14

While the Lord certainly speaks of allowing those who are deceived to continue in their deception, I believe that many Muslims will see the truth at this time and multitudes will find both salvation and possibly martyrdom at this time. Indeed, God’s mercy is strong.

[water]

After reading some of the posts above, it seems to me that several posters did not read the post I linked (which I understand, we are busy putting food on the table, no condemnation from me).

Please read this article, which is actually a portion of a book to be published soon. I am posting a portion of the text here to hopefully gain some attention.

From Joel Richardson...

http://www.joelstrumpet.com/?p=2440

Daniel 9:26: Who Are The People of the Prince To Come?

The Historical Reality

Still addressing the critique above, lets examine its second problem: the historical reality. Was it in fact, “the Roman government that decided to destroy Jerusalem”? Was it really “the Roman government that gave the orders, and [the] Roman generals who carried out the destruction”? Once again, just a bit of homework will reveal that just the opposite is true. Josephus’ records makes this all too abundantly clear:

And now a certain person came running to Titus, and told him of this fire… whereupon he rose up in great haste, and, as he was, ran to the holy house, in order to have a stop put to the fire; after him followed all his commanders, and after them followed the several legions, in great astonishment; so there was a great clamor and tumult raised, as was natural upon the disorderly motion of so great an army. Then did Caesar, both by calling to the soldiers that were fighting, with a loud voice, and by giving a signal to them with his right hand, order them to quench the fire. - Josephus War of the Jews, Book 6, Chapter 4

Like the classic stereotype of an Italian, Titus is seen to be frantically using both his mouth and his hands to speak. But despite the great alarm of their General, despite his frantic shouting and hand waving, the soldiers did not obey Titus or any of their commanders. They were absolutely hell-bent on fighting the Jews. The following passage from Josephus’ Wars of the Jews reveals exactly why this was the case:

Titus supposing what the fact was, that the house itself might yet he saved, he came in haste and endeavored to persuade the soldiers to quench the fire… yet were their passions too hard for the regards they had for Caesar, and the dread they had of him who forbade them, as was their hatred of the Jews, and a certain vehement inclination to fight them, too hard for them also… And thus was the holy house burnt down, without Caesar’s approbation. - Josephus, Wars of the Jew, Book 6, Chapter 4

The last line, “thus was the holy house burnt down, without Caesar’s approbation.” Could not be more damning to any claim that the Roman leaders desired or commanded the destruction of the Temple.

Isaac and Ishmael: The Ancient Hatred

There is an ancient reality that is emerging here. The specific reason that the soldiers did not obey their commanders was because of the passionate hatred that they possessed for the Jews. It overwhelmed them. Then, as today, the various Middle-Eastern peoples were possessed with a demonic hatred for the Jewish people. Please take note of this: Hatred was the primary motivating factor behind the destruction of the Temple in 70 A.D., it is the overriding sentiment of the surrounding Islamic nations today and it will no doubt be the primary driving factor when the armies of the Antichrist invade Israel. This hatred is seen perhaps most markedly in the gruesome episode recorded by Josephus. As the Roman armies surrounded Jerusalem, many of the citizens were choosing to surrender and desert the city. As they did so, many would swallow whatever gold or silver coins they possessed hoping to be able to retrieve them after they had escaped the city. But as they came out to surrender to the Roman soldiers as non-combatant supplicants, they met a terrible fate. The Syrian and Arab soldiers that made up the Roman armies would have none of it. Instead, Josephus tells us that the soldiers killed those who were desiring to surrender, hoping to find any gold or silver that may have been swallowed:

…the multitude of the Arabians, with the Syrians, cut up those that came as supplicants, and searched their bellies. Nor does it seem to me that any misery befell the Jews that was more terrible than this, since in one night’s time about two thousand of these deserters were thus dissected. - The Wars of The Jews, History of the Destruction of Jerusalem By Flavius Josephus Trans. William Whiston BOOK V: Chapter 13: Para 4

Conclusion

In conclusion then, the overwhelming evidence, not only from ancient historians but also modern day scholarship points us to ethnic identity of the “Roman” peoples that destroyed Jerusalem and the Temple. They were the ancestors of the Muslim peoples that dominate the entire region today.

[Jericho]

Q&A with Prophecy Experts: Part 1 - Will the Antichrist be a Jew?
http://lamblion.com/television/programs_pretrib11.php

Q&A with Prophecy Experts: Part 2 - Will the Antichrist be a Muslim?
http://lamblion.com/television/programs_pretrib12.php

[Douggg]

Q&A with Prophecy Experts: Part 1 - Will the Antichrist be a Jew?
http://lamblion.com/television/programs_pretrib11.php

Q&A with Prophecy Experts: Part 2 - Will the Antichrist be a Muslim?
http://lamblion.com/television/programs_pretrib12.php

I had seen those programs before. Do you know what the common problem that all of those commentators have? They are trying to identify the AC without considering that the AC will be two separate persons.... which will be one person for the last 42 months. The man and the beast.

One of those persons is historic and has been in the bottomless pit. Even back in John's day he was there. In that respect, prior to being contained in the bottomless pit, he could have been an Assyrian, or a king of Babylon, or a Nephilim. In Revelation 17, that is the beast. It is doubtful that the beast could be Jewish.

The AC the man, on the other hand, is a person who will be incarnated by the beast of Revelation 17 - when the AC man is killed and recovers.

So the AC man will be Jewish. Just as Judas was Jewish. Both are called son of perdition.

The AC beast (the man after he has been incarnated by the beast for the last 42 months) is identified by the man who the beast incarnates. 666 is the number of a man, the number of his name. Which could give the man identity of the AC man by name - which would be the last son of Adonikam. Since Adonikam himself was included in the 667 count in Nehemiah 7:18, that leaves two persons as being number 666 son - Ezra8:13 And of the last sons of Adonikam, whose names are these, Eliphelet, Jeiel, and Shemaiah, and with them threescore males. It is either Eliphelet or Shemaiah - because it doesn't indicate which is the last of those three. I am not say that either of those is the AC because they are long dead. But the name of the AC could be either Eliphelet or Shemiah. Shemiah as I did a quickie internet search seems to be a woman's name. Eliphelet is a man's name. We might stumble upon who the Antichrist man is by doing some internet research. I don't know, maybe we shouldn't leave out Jeiel either.

The beast, on the other hand, it is doubtful that he is Jewish. His origin could be very ancient. He is currently in the bottomless pit. I don't know who that is. Does anyone here have any guesses or theories ?

Doug L.

[Douggg]

http://answering-islam.org/Authors/JR/Future/index.htm

The Antichrist Himself Demands Worship

Perhaps the most strongest argument that could be made against the idea that the system of Islam will fulfill the role of the Antichrist system is the fact that despite all of the specific parallels and similarities between the two, the simple fact is that the Antichrist demands personal worship and surely Islam does not allow for the worship of any man. Indeed this is the big problem that Islam has with Christianity. While I am plainly speculating, I believe that a thoughtful examination of this future scenario can clear up any doubts that might attempt to negate the notion that Islam is the Antichrist system.

The first point that needs to be remembered is that while the Antichrist accomplishes much in the first half of the seven years of his rule, he does not actually demand to be worshiped until after the middle point of this seven years. It will not be until after the Antichrist has achieved several significant military victories and gained a great measure of allegiance that he will invade Israel and establish his position of authority in the Jerusalem temple. It is at this time that Paul the Apostle explains that Antichrist will “set himself up in God's temple, proclaiming himself to be God.” (2 Thessalonians 2:4) This is also the time that Paul said that, “the man of lawlessness is revealed.” (2 Thessalonians 2:3) While many Christians with discernment will already have recognized the Antichrist by this point, it will not be until the middle of the “week” or seven years that the Bible says he will be fully “revealed.”

Exactly how is this Mahdi going to allow the Jews to rebuild the temple mount? Why would he do that. He is supposed to be the champion of Islam. Why would he allow a Jewish temple to be built on the temple mount?

The bible doesn't say that the antichrist has to invade Israel to go into the temple to declare himself to be god. The AC will walk right into the temple because he will be in Jerusalem as their messiah for at least three years prior. The world is not going to follow a muslim mahdi figure. Also, can you imagine some False prophet claiming to be Jesus endorsing Islam and the Mahdi? Who in the non-muslim world is going to buy into that? Joel's scenario is just crazy....


Doug L.

[Mr Baldy]

The AC the man, on the other hand, is a person who will be incarnated by the beast of Revelation 17 - when the AC man is killed and recovers.

Douggg, this sounds like an absolute terribly "Amazing Fairy Tale"........ Please provide Scripture with for this explanation; and please no man made ideas.

So the AC man will be Jewish.

Can you provide evidence for this statement as well

[Douggg]

The AC the man, on the other hand, is a person who will be incarnated by the beast of Revelation 17 - when the AC man is killed and recovers.

Douggg, this sounds like an absolute terribly "Amazing Fairy Tale"........ Please provide Scripture with for this explanation; and please no man made ideas.

Don't make me have to pick hen's teeth..... ....just teasing.

It's no fairy tale. The AC man is the wounded head of the beast in Revelation 13. The description of the beast in Revelation 17, on the other hand, does not have a wounded head because the beast at the time of that vision in Rev 17 was first century. In Revelation 17, the sixth king (the sixth of the seven heads) - a man - was ruling at the time of John. The seventh king, John said, was future (yet to come 17:10) and would rule only for a short time. The vision of the beast in Revelation 17 is 1st century.

That future seventh king is the wounded head in Revelation 13, which is a end times vision of the beast because it has 42 months left. And also the ten crown are on the ten heads (meaning the ten kings that rule with the beast are doing so in the end times), which they weren't in Revelation 17. The vision of the beast in Revelation 13 is end times.

The AC man, the seventh king, is mortally wounded. But in Revelation 13, they do not worship the mortally wounded head, but the beast - meaning they don't worship the AC man when he first comes to power as king 7.

The beast incarnates the AC man at the time of recovery of his mortal wound. In Revelation 17, it states that the beast in that vision, coming out of the bottomless pit sometime in the future will be king number 8. He will be king number 8 by incarnating the slain AC man, king number 7. Thus, for the last 42 months the AC man will be incarnated by the beast from the bottomless pit to be the AC beast.

Since the beast that is currently in the bottomless pit "is not", but once "was" (Rev 17:8) means that he once was alive, but is dead. Only in spirit form can anyone remain alive for thousand of years. It is the spirit of a former individual of ancient times that is in the bottomless pit waiting for that day when he is allowed to incarnated the slain AC man.

So there are two separate persons that must be identified. (1) the AC man. (2) the individual who once lived in Ancient times, died, and is his spirit is in the bottomless pit right now as we speak.

So the AC man will be Jewish.

Can you provide evidence for this statement as well [/quote]

Two reasons which you cannot escape. (1) The AC man is call the son of perdition. Judas is also call the son of perdition (the only other one in bible). Judas was a Jew.
The AC man will be a Jew.

The name of the AC beast is identified by the number of his man name - which is 666. There is only one person in the bible who's number of his name is associated with being number 666. That is one of the sons of Adonikam. Adonikam was Jewish. The AC man identified by the number of his name - will thus be Jewish.

Also Jesus said another coming in his own name - the Jews would embrace as their messiah. That will be the AC man - king 7, who will be a Jew in order for them to embrace him as their messiah. The beast, which as we speak is in the bottomless pit, on the other hand, is an ancient figure. He was a gentile.

The AC beast, consisting of the the AC man incarnated by the beast from the bottomless pit, for the last 42 months of reign, will be both a Jew and a gentile.

Doug L.

[water]

Exactly how is this Mahdi going to allow the Jews to rebuild the temple mount? Why would he do that. He is supposed to be the champion of Islam. Why would he allow a Jewish temple to be built on the temple mount?

The bible doesn't say that the antichrist has to invade Israel to go into the temple to declare himself to be god. The AC will walk right into the temple because he will be in Jerusalem as their messiah for at least three years prior. The world is not going to follow a muslim mahdi figure. Also, can you imagine some False prophet claiming to be Jesus endorsing Islam and the Mahdi? Who in the non-muslim world is going to buy into that? Joel's scenario is just crazy....


Doug L.

If the Bible doesn't tell us exactly how the AC/temple situation will come about, I would be silly to say I know for sure; however, we are already today seeing the Sanhedrin engage Muslims in such discussions. How it will play out, we must wait and watch.

I can tell you *why* he would do that, to bait Israel into a false peace. There are tenets of Islam that allow for deception and false treaties in order gain the upper hand. You can read about the treaty of hudaibiya and the tenet of taqiyya - google them for more info. In fact, Arafat referenced hudaibiya when talking of any peace with Israel - it is literally a false peace held until the Muslim may subdue their enemies.

As for the Mahdi strolling into the temple, I do not believe that is what scripture tell us. Scripture states the AC will end the false peace half way through, come to destroy Israel and butcher the Jews, end the temple sacrifices, and declare himself to be god (and or above all gods, same difference IMO).

One more thing, regarding the 'entire world.' Some believe as I do that the AC will not literally enslave the entire planet. Don't get me wrong, I take the Bible literally; however, you can easily read in Daniel that (paraphrasing) 'every person and creature in the world was subordinate to Nebuchadnezzar', but I guarantee you nobody in the Americas had ever heard of the man.

Another point you must consider is that the Bible is clear that not everyone will be worship the AC...and the AC works to put them to death...so you are right that many will not do so. We also see in scripture that many nations fight against the AC, which is another solid piece of evidence that we are really dealing with a regional 'world', and not a planetary 'world' when we read the AC will subordinate all.

Regarding the FP (the Islamic Jesus, known as Isa), this is not Joel's story, he is simply quoting Islamic prophecy. That monstrous list of bullet points I have a few posts up...that is Bible prophecy point vs. Quran prophecy point, not Bible vs. some author's imagination.

This is why I believe 'the great deception' is a Muslim Messiah (Mahdi) = Christian AC and Muslim Jesus (Isa) = Christian FP. How deceptive is that? Remember, God states clearly in scripture that those who refuse him are given over to a delusion.

Again, IMO, the foundation of the great deception (I think there will be much more to it than this) is the following:

Islamic Messiah (the Mahdi) = Christian Antichrist

Islamic Jesus (Isa) = Christian False Prophet

Islamic Antichrist (Dajal) = Christian Jesus

Islamic prophecy states that once the Mahdi and Muslim Jesus (Isa) are in power, they will wage war against Israel to finally put an end to the Jews. It is at this time that the Muslim version of the Antichrist, which they call Dajal, will come to defend Israel. We know from the Bible that it is actually our Lord Jesus that comes to save Israel.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masih_ad-Dajjal

Bible prophecy and Quran prophecy on end times events are literal mirrors of one another...which will be the basis for the great deception Jesus warned us about.

I don't expect that I will change many minds that are still solidly against this, but I would ask that you tuck this information away somewhere in your mind so that when it happens, you might recall. I do the same with all eschatology theories...they are in my pocket...and I keep watching...watching what is going on in the world today (reality), and mapping it to prophecy.

I truly believe it will be very simple for all of us to see clearly when it actually comes to pass. We know the following must come to pass:

1) peace treaty
2) temple
3) sacrifices
4) premature end to peace treaty
5) war on Israel
6) end of sacrifices
7) just when it looks hopeless for Israel - Jesus returns to defeat the AC and his armies

So...whether you are looking for an Euro-AC or a Mahdi-AC...or whatever AC...we know the road map above will happen and when it does, we will know the return of our King is near.

[Douggg]

If the Bible doesn't tell us exactly how the AC/temple situation will come about, I would be silly to say I know for sure; however, we are already today seeing the Sanhedrin engage Muslims in such discussions. How it will play out, we must wait and watch.

I can tell you *why* he would do that, to bait Israel into a false peace.

The Jews right now as we speak do not ask that a temple be rebuilt in order to accept a false peace. So that reason for the Mahdi to facilitate the rebuilding of a temple in order to enact a false peace doesn't make sense to me.

As for the Mahdi strolling into the temple, I do not believe that is what scripture tell us. Scripture states the AC will end the false peace half way through, come to destroy Israel and butcher the Jews, end the temple sacrifices, and declare himself to be god (and or above all gods, same difference IMO).

One more thing, regarding the 'entire world.' Some believe as I do that the AC will not literally enslave the entire planet. Don't get me wrong, I take the Bible literally; however, you can easily read in Daniel that (paraphrasing) 'every person and creature in the world was subordinate to Nebuchadnezzar', but I guarantee you nobody in the Americas had ever heard of the man.

The mahdi? I think the awareness is more widespread than you perceive, imo.

Another point you must consider is that the Bible is clear that not everyone will be worship the AC...and the AC works to put them to death...so you are right that many will not do so. We also see in scripture that many nations fight against the AC, which is another solid piece of evidence that we are really dealing with a regional 'world', and not a planetary 'world' when we read the AC will subordinate all.

Those nations fighting the AC in Daniel 11, the end times verses, don't take place until right at the end of the 7 years. Most likely because different sections of the world will become disillusioned with AC beast's claims to be god because he will be unable to stop the judgments. Also he will probably direct all dwindling resources to his Euro ten king power base.

Regarding the FP (the Islamic Jesus, known as Isa), this is not Joel's story, he is simply quoting Islamic prophecy. That monstrous list of bullet points I have a few posts up...that is Bible prophecy point vs. Quran prophecy point, not Bible vs. some author's imagination.

I investigated the possibility of Islamic AC ten years ago. But dismissed it when I got into the details of what the Mahdi is supposed to do, after discussions with muslim experts in their own religion themselves. Joel is not being objective because those details don't match up with the bible prophecies.

This is why I believe 'the great deception' is a Muslim Messiah (Mahdi) = Christian AC and Muslim Jesus (Isa) = Christian FP. How deceptive is that? Remember, God states clearly in scripture that those who refuse him are given over to a delusion.

Again, IMO, the foundation of the great deception (I think there will be much more to it than this) is the following:

Islamic Messiah (the Mahdi) = Christian Antichrist

Islamic Jesus (Isa) = Christian False Prophet

Islamic Antichrist (Dajal) = Christian Jesus

Islamic prophecy states that once the Mahdi and Muslim Jesus (Isa) are in power, they will wage war against Israel to finally put an end to the Jews. It is at this time that the Muslim version of the Antichrist, which they call Dajal, will come to defend Israel. We know from the Bible that it is actually our Lord Jesus that comes to save Israel.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masih_ad-Dajjal

One of the show stoppers of the Islam will produce the AC theory is who will play the part of Muslim Dajjal? If the Mahdi is the Christian Antichrist - then he and the muslim Jesus will have to fight the Dajjal. The Dajjal is described in the Muslim prophecies - but there is no one in the Biblical prophecies to play that role.

Bible prophecy and Quran prophecy on end times events are literal mirrors of one another...which will be the basis for the great deception Jesus warned us about.

Sorry, but they are not. Who will be the Dajjal in Bible prophecies? The description of Jesus in Bible prophecy is found in Revelation 19, returning in great glory and power.
He does not match the muslim description of the Dajjal.

The muslim prophecies just will never materialize - because they are not from God. Mohamed was a false prophet. Therefore, his prophecies will not take place - even in a bizarre fashion.

I don't expect that I will change many minds that are still solidly against this, but I would ask that you tuck this information away somewhere in your mind so that when it happens, you might recall. I do the same with all eschatology theories...they are in my pocket...and I keep watching...watching what is going on in the world today (reality), and mapping it to prophecy.

As I said ten years ago I considered it. But it has far too many holes. The battle of Gog/Magog will eliminate Islam from the end times picture - right before the AC man appears. That is how the Jews will be able to rebuild their temple (Islam will be dissolved just like the communist threat was dissolved in a matter of days)- not the massive structure at first, only the sanctuary which is relatively small, 45ft by 15ft, in order to begin the daily sacrificies as soon as possible.

I truly believe it will be very simple for all of us to see clearly when it actually comes to pass. We know the following must come to pass:

1) peace treaty
2) temple
3) sacrifices
4) premature end to peace treaty
5) war on Israel
6) end of sacrifices
7) just when it looks hopeless for Israel - Jesus returns to defeat the AC and his armies

1) Gog/Magog
2) AC confirms Mt. Sinai covenant
3) Sanctuary built and completed within 220 days
4) sacrifices
5) AC man declares he is god stop sacrifices
6) AC killed and recovers
7) AOD image setup
8) Jews flee to mountains
9) AOD incarnated by Satan
10) 666 requirement
11) God's vials of wrath
12) nations rebel against AC
13) sign of the Son of Man in heaven
14) nations drawn into the ME galvanize under AC to stop Jesus
15) Jesus returns defeating the AC, the Armies, FP and AOD image

So...whether you are looking for an Euro-AC or a Mahdi-AC...or whatever AC...we know the road map above will happen and when it does, we will know the return of our King is near.

Doug L.

[water]

As I stated, I don't expect to change any minds...people choose what they believe and I don't pretend to think I will alter that.

The Dajal, according to Islam, comes to fight against the Mahdi as he makes his move to wipe out Israel. I am surprised you said there is no Biblical figure that comes to defend Israel against the AC. It is obviously Jesus.

[Douggg]

As I stated, I don't expect to change any minds...people choose what they believe and I don't pretend to think I will alter that.

The Dajal, according to Islam, comes to fight against the Mahdi as he makes his move to wipe out Israel. I am surprised you said there is no Biblical figure that comes to defend Israel against the AC. It is obviously Jesus.

It is obvious to you because you have not researched the details of what the Dajal will look like and what he will be riding. Do a internet search on the Dajal, and report back what you find and explain to me how the Dajal could possibly be Jesus.

Doug L.