Javier Solana Subdued 3 Kings

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Javier Solana Subdued 3 Kings

Postby eschologizer on Wed Feb 24, 2010 4:43 pm

I believe Javier Solana has already subdued the 3 kings.

Ok so I figured that since prophecy was getting severely boring, especially in regards to Javier Solana, that I would bring up this issue :lol:

This is directed at those of you who believe that Javier Solana might be/probably is the AC. I would appreciate it if no one would derail this thread with another theory or with ideas that reject the Javier Solana idea altogether. Thanks! :grin:

Consider this to be my opening statement in a good-natured debate. It is a lengthy dissertation on why I believe that Javier Solana has already subdued the three kings. Herbert L. Peters also presented his own research on this in the video "End Time News Report" given at the Prophecy Club conference.

It is my belief (along with Herbert Peters) that Javier Solana has indeed fulfilled the entirety of Daniel 7:24.

Daniel 7:24
The ten horns are ten kings who will come from this kingdom. After them another king will arise, different from the earlier ones; he will subdue three kings.

(emphasis mine)

I hope this prompts some good natured debate among us ENPI watchers, as prophecy is getting quite boring. :itsgood:

Here's why I believe Javier Solana subdued 3 kings:

http://strongsnumbers.com/hebrew/8214.htm

Strong's definition

"abase, humble, put down, subdue"

dictionary.com definitions (i have omitted definitions that obviously have nothing to do with the sense we mean these words):

Abase - "to reduce or lower, as in rank, office, reputation, or estimation; humble; degrade."

Humble (verb)-
1. "to lower in condition, importance, or dignity; abase."
2. "to destroy the independence, power, or will of."

Subdue -

"1.to conquer and bring into subjection: Rome subdued Gaul.
2.to overpower by superior force; overcome.
3.to bring under mental or emotional control, as by persuasion or intimidation; render submissive."

The sense I get from these definitions is that in context, to "subdue" three kings would mean to lower them in their office, position, or dignity and overcome them by making them submissive.

Some have argued that this "subduing" is violent, and even military. (I.E. = In the early church - Hippolytus)

Hippolytus:

He says that three horns are plucked up by the root by him, viz., the three kings of Egypt, and Libya, and Ethiopia, whom he cuts off in the array of battle.


http://biblelight.net/fathers-on-antichrist.htm

I disagree with this conjecture because in Revelation we see that all ten kings give their power and authority to the beast and all ten kings wage war against the lamb. The group of kings is not simply reduced to seven. The number of kings remains constant at 10, even after the subduing. (Also, Revelation 13, the beast has 10 horns, not just 7).

Revelation 17:12

12"The ten horns you saw are ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but who for one hour will receive authority as kings along with the beast. 13They have one purpose and will give their power and authority to the beast.


This also rules out the idea that any of them are removed from office via diplomatic or political means. The 10 remain 10 throughout the entire end times. As far as the 3 that are uprooted in Daniel 7:8, we must keep in mind that this is still part of the vision, not the interpretation. The vision is true and correct. But to properly understand it, we need the interpretation. The interpretation, along with other passages in Revelation, make it clear that just because they are uprooted does not mean they are removed from office.

My belief is more along the lines of the other church fathers. (interesting but offtopic sidenote, almost ALL of the church fathers who spoke about the 10 kings believed that they would emerge from the Roman Empire.):

St. Cyril of Jerusalem (315-386):

There shall rise up together ten kings of the Romans, reigning in different parts perhaps, but all about the same time; and after these an eleventh, the Antichrist, who by his magical craft shall seize upon the Roman power; and of the kings who reigned before him, three he shall humble, and the remaining seven he shall keep in subjection to himself.


St. Jerome (340-420):

Then an insignificant eleventh king will arise, who will overcome three of the ten kings,


So we can establish many facts about this "subduing:"

1) It is non-violent
2) It does not remove the 3 kings from office.
3) They are overcome in such a way that their rank or dignity is lowered and they are in submission to the little horn.

So now to the political part about Javier Solana.

I will now show why the EU3 needed to be "overcome" or "humbled" or "abased." Then I will show that Javier Solana did in fact, "abase" them and lower them in rank, dignity or position.

1) The "Big three" were a hinderance to Javier Solana's influence as high representative for the Common Foreign and Security Policy

http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/the-european-union/in-search-of-a-lost-time/

(Article quoting a Financial Times article that no longer is available):

But other countries say that does not excuse the Big Three for bypassing Javier Solana, the EU’s foreign policy chief, on wider policy issues. “If you take a pessimistic view of what the Big Three are doing, it is a slap in the face for Solana,” said a Scandinavian diplomat.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/6207087/Why-the-EU-lacks-real-power-and-clout.html

Whenever Mr Solana goes on a diplomatic mission, he carries the weight of the EU as a whole. For all his undoubted skills, however, Mr Solana is not a man who makes the world tremble or the financial markets rise and fall. In the end, the member states decide their own foreign policies and they only allow Mr Solana to speak for them on carefully selected issues.
We don’t really have a single voice on any of the major issues and fragmented voices are not heeded with the same care and attention as a single, powerful voice would be,” says Sir Ivor Roberts, formerly Britain’s ambassador to Italy, Ireland and Yugoslavia.
“The member states that count are not actually prepared, in the last resort, to give up their power to a central body, for very good domestic political reasons.”
This is particularly true of the “big three” – the term used by European diplomats for Britain, France and Germany. Only when they come together is agreement likely on a major foreign policy question.


When speaking of a trip to Iran:

http://www.dawn.com/2003/10/24/int13.htm

The three foreign ministers did not bother to take along their Italian colleague, whose country holds the rotating EU presidency, nor EU foreign policy chief Javier Solana, who is supposed to represent their common foreign policy abroad.


The Big Three have been accused of grabbing for power many times.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3500949.stm

Others even accused them of forming a directorate, as the late Herbert Peters discovered as well. This accusation they repeatedly had to defend themselves from.

http://www.buzzle.com/editorials/2-18-2004-50707.asp
http://www.cer.org.uk/articles/n_21_everts.html

From this it is clear. The "Big three" stood in the way of Javier Solana in many ways. They seemed to be the one's trying to speak for the EU and trying to control the EU.

2) Soon it got to the place where Solana was working with the big three.

Here is a picture of the "little horn" next to the three horns.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:2006_1012_eu_iran_600.jpg

http://euobserver.com/9/22322

A number of EU member states are growing impatient with the secretive handling of the Iran issue by foreign policy chief Javier Solana and the EU's "big three," with most foreign ministers not having seen a key Iranian paper at a meeting in Finland.


Here we see the little horn coming up among the three. (Metaphorically speaking).

3) Soon it got to the place where the EU3 was no longer a "slap in the face" or even people who work alongside Solana. There became a time when they became under Solana's leadership and the EU spoke with one voice.


It started off with the EU3 leaving Solana behind. Then Solana started coming along with the EU3.

Then the switch happened.

Instead of Solana coming along with the EU3, the EU3 (and others) started coming along with Solana.

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE58S1L220090929

Solana, who has headed Western negotiating efforts with Iran on the nuclear issue, will be joined by U.S., British, French, Russian, Chinese and German foreign ministry political directors in talks with Iranian negotiator Saeed Jalili.


http://payvand.com/news/09/feb/1121.html

After an initial understanding with the Iranian side, the E3 involved the EU's foreign policy czar, Javier Solana, who quickly became the main negotiator with the Iranians, in cooperation with the E3 Foreign Ministers and, it can be conjectured, with some backchannel involvement from the US. By 2004 all EU policies towards Iran were coordinated by the E3 plus Solana (the so-called E3/EU format), with the Council secretariat playing a central role as the clearing house and main policy "driver."


Javier Solana was now not only tasked with continuation of the talks with the Iranians but also with handing over the letters written to Iran on behalf of the international community.


This issue is much larger than Javier Solana simply representing the EU in negotiations with Iran. It represents the issue of who speaks for Europe as far as EU's foreign policy is concerned. It is the issue of who has the power in Europe, as this directorate of 3 doesn't seem to have influence anymore.

So the question I ask now is this.

Where is the EU3 now? Where are all those articles about how the EU3 is doing this, that, or the other?? Where did all those accusations about the "big three" being a directorate go? There used to be tons of articles about the big three. But now, this "directorate" doesn't seem to really exist anymore, except in context of the EU3+3 (Big three + China, Russia, U.S.) in negotiations with Iran. Of whom Solana is the leader. (I am speaking in a pre-Lisbon tense).

Nowhere to be found.

See article trends here to see what I mean:

EU3:

http://news.google.com/archivesearch?q=EU3&scoring=a&hl=en&ned=us&sa=N&sugg=d&as_ldate=2000&as_hdate=2009&lnav=hist5

EU "big three"

http://news.google.com/archivesearch?q=EU+%22big+three%22&scoring=a&hl=en&ned=us&sa=N&sugg=d&as_ldate=2000&as_hdate=2009&lnav=hist6

Here is what I believe we have:

Javier Solana:

1) Non violently
2)without removing anyone from office
3)made 3 of the 10 nations subservient to the greater EU will

I believe that now were are in that interval between Daniel 7:24 and Daniel 7:25. I believe the next prophecy to be fulfilled as far as Daniel 7 is concerned is this:

Daniel 7:25

He will speak against the Most High and oppress his saints and try to change the set times and the laws. The saints will be handed over to him for a time, times and half a time.


I believe the idea that Javier Solana subdued the 3 kings already is a significant advantage to ENPI/WEU theory. Because the progression in Daniel 7 (& 9) is exactly what we have.

1) Fourth kingdom (Roman Empire) = EU - 1950-Present
2) Ten kings from Roman Empire = WEU - 1995
3) Leader arises after them = Javier Solana - 1999
4) Subdues 3 kings from original ten = Javier Solana & EU3 - circa 2007
5)Leader confirms covenant with many for seven years - Javier Solana & Commission - 2007

This scenario is unprecedented in world history. I am unaware of anyone else who actually fulfills prophecies specific to the Antichrist. (Prophecies that can apply to multiple politicians don't count, such as making peace in middle east, being from EU, etc. I mean prophecies that the Antichrist specifically is supposed to fulfill)

After all, who can say they arose to leadership after a group of 10 kings in the Roman Empire?
Who can say that they removed as a political obstacle 3 kings of an original group of 10?
Who can say that they confirmed a seven year covenant with Israel??

As if that wasn't good enough:

What document creates this man's job?

Document 666

What document advises that he have control over the EU's military body?

Recommendation 666

And on and on it goes....

My apologies that this is such a long post. My intention was to lay out my argument, extensively for the idea that Javier Solana has indeed subdued the three kings. Again, I believe the fact that Solana has subdued the 3 kings is a very valuable asset for ENPI theory.

Thoughts??
"for they themselves report what kind of reception you gave us. They tell how you turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God, and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead—Jesus, who rescues us from the coming wrath." 1 Thessalonians 1:9-10

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Re: Javier Solana Subdued 3 Kings

Postby 1whowaits on Wed Feb 24, 2010 8:35 pm

Eschologizer, this is the debate area, if you are going to post here you are going to have to put up with silly people like me questioning your theory, sorry.

I don't remember, what is Solana doing now that he overthrew (uprooted) the 3 kings/horns? It would appear from Dan 7 that when the little horn uproots the 3 horns he continues to speak boastfully, and Rev 13 associates the beast uttering proud words (speaking boastfully) with his exercising authority over the nations for 42 months. Is Solana boasting and exercising his authority over the nations now? I thought he was teaching somewhere or some such thing, pretty boastful and authoritarian that guy. Are the UK, Germany, and France still humbled by him, have the 10 nations given him their authority in his current position? (sorry, i just had to tease you about this)
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Re: Javier Solana Subdued 3 Kings

Postby JayCee on Thu Feb 25, 2010 3:55 am

Daniel 9:25 may suggest that the 'speaking out against the Most High' is connected to the wearing down of the saints, and is possibly linked to the last three and a half years. Maybe we have a little way to go before we will hear of the boastful speaking? Or is the 'boastful' speaking political and therefore different?

Interesting post, Eschologizer
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Re: Javier Solana Subdued 3 Kings

Postby ampersand on Thu Feb 25, 2010 11:24 am

eschologizer wrote:...
1) Fourth kingdom (Roman Empire) = EU - 1950-Present
2) Ten kings from Roman Empire = WEU - 1995
3) Leader arises after them = Javier Solana - 1999
4) Subdues 3 kings from original ten = Javier Solana & EU3 - circa 2007
5)Leader confirms covenant with many for seven years - Javier Solana & Commission - 2007
...


Hi eschologizer! This is an interesting theory you have developed here.
Regardless of what we believe about RRE/Solana, I think we can all agree that the 3 kings of Daniel are subdued during the 70th week. Right? If I understand correctly, the RRE/Solana camp believes that the 70th week began either after the signing of the Action Plan with Israel (pre-2007) or after it went into effect (2007). So the subjugation of the "big 3" should have happened after that. Could you pin the "subduing" down to a specific date/month? I understand that it was a process, but what would you say was the final nail in the coffin (post-ENP), to support your theory that Solana has indeed subdued them?


Thank you.

&
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Re: Javier Solana Subdued 3 Kings

Postby eschologizer on Fri Feb 26, 2010 5:56 pm

Regardless of what we believe about RRE/Solana, I think we can all agree that the 3 kings of Daniel are subdued during the 70th week. Right?


Good question Ampersand.

First, prior to me saying this, I would have say that I don't think the subduing of the three kings is necessarily required to be inside of the 70th week, though I would expect it to certainly be close to it or inside it. (The reason I believe this is because Daniel 7:24-25 doesn't mention how the rising up, subduing fit when charted out alongside the 70th week.) However, it seems to be evident that the subduing must happen before the middle of the 70th week, as it happens sometime before he boasts and holds authority for 3.5 years.

If I understand correctly, the RRE/Solana camp believes that the 70th week began either after the signing of the Action Plan with Israel (pre-2007) or after it went into effect (2007). So the subjugation of the "big 3" should have happened after that. Could you pin the "subduing" down to a specific date/month? I understand that it was a process, but what would you say was the final nail in the coffin (post-ENP), to support your theory that Solana has indeed subdued them?


You are right in saying that it is a process, but I think I am able to point to a few notable days.

One particular day of note is 06/06/06. On the entirety of this day, Javier Solana was on the top of Google news (where he never is any other time). What he was shown doing is presenting a nuclear package to Iran on behalf of the EU3 and EU itself. The Iranians responded positively. What makes this significant is that this is coming on the heels of news articles saying that the EU3 as having reaching a "dead end" with Iran. However, Solana on this day presented a deal on their behalf and it was responded positively to. Now remember their used to be a time when Solana didn't even get to come along with the EU3 when they negotiated with Iran. Now he is the one presenting the deal to them and seeming to be succeeding in front of the whole world. In the words of the Antichrist on the movie the "Omega Code" i can hear Solana saying it in his head now: "I'll take it from here."

http://www.forbes.com/feeds/afx/2006/01/12/afx2445773.html

http://www.euronews.net/2006/06/06/iran-says-nuclear-proposals-contain-positive-points/

In the End Time News report, Herbert Peters places the subduing around April 4, 2007. This is when the Iranians released British hostages from Iran as a "gift." However, according to Herb Peters, this release just so happened to coincide with a phone call from Javier Solana to Iran (who as leader of EU represents a signficant chunk of Iran's trade). This, Herb noted, came after the failure of the EU3 to successfully negotiate. This event proved that the EU3 needed Solana and that he was the leader in the matter.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Iranian_seizure_of_Royal_Navy_personnel

It eventually got to the place where the U.S. jumped on board along with China and Russia with negotiations and Solana was acting on behalf of the EU3. No more directorate, no more question of who will speak for Europe, no more leaving Solana behind. Now, Solana is leaving them behind. Sometimes the EU3 didn't even come along.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/09/27/world/europe/27iht-iran.2954952.html

The European Union's foreign policy chief and Iran's senior nuclear negotiator met Wednesday night in an attempt to resolve the dispute over Iran's nuclear program.


and further down the article:

Solana, who is representing the EU3- Britain, France and Germany - has been trying for weeks to seek clarifications from Larijani over if, how and when Iran would suspend enrichment. In return, the six countries would start a new round of formal negotiations.


We must keep in mind that this is more than simply the EU3 being replaced by Solana as main Iran negotiator. A bigger issue is at stake. An issue of Common Foreign and Security Policy, Europe speaking with one voice, and who represents the EU in the world, who really controls EU foreign policy, etc.

Thanks for taking the time to look at this and to raise these issues.

1whowaits,

You raise a valid point regarding how Solana is not currently in the process of having these kings in subjection to himself. Nevertheless, if we view prophecy like check boxes, we can check the "3 kings subdued" box because, whether or not Solana is now in power, he did indeed subdue the three kings in the past. Also, the three kings to this day are in submission to the CFSP, because of the Lisbon treaty. If Solana were to take a position again in the EU as head certain foreign policy/defence matters, the EU3 would remain in submission.

Thanks for your thoughts.
"for they themselves report what kind of reception you gave us. They tell how you turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God, and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead—Jesus, who rescues us from the coming wrath." 1 Thessalonians 1:9-10

http://www.euprophecynews.com/
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Re: Javier Solana Subdued 3 Kings

Postby 1whowaits on Sat Feb 27, 2010 6:36 pm

Eschologizer, we cannot 'check off' a prophecy as being fulfilled if it not fulfilled in the context of the scripture that describes it. Dan 7 describes the little horn that uproots the 3 kings as not only speaking boastfully, which Solana is not doing, but he is also described as speaking 'against the Most High, and oppressing his saints' and 'this horn was waging war against the saints and defeating them'. This is in no way consistent with Solana.

And from Dan 7 and Rev 17 we know that the little horn rules the 10 kings and the world, which is in no way consistent with Solana. At this point in time, as Solana does not rule the 10 kings or the world, Solana does not oppress the saints or war against them, the supposed subduing of the UK, Germany and France really as no relevance to scripture at this point, there has been no fulfillment of any of the scripture associated with the suduing of the 3 kings (which would likely be a much more dramatic event as the term 'uprooted' is used along with subdued).

Prophecy will not be fulfilled in a void, there will be other events associated with it as scripture describes, and Solana being the little horn is not consistent with scripture, so the subduing of 3 kings has not occcurred yet.
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Re: Javier Solana Subdued 3 Kings

Postby eschologizer on Mon Mar 01, 2010 2:28 am

Dan 7 describes the little horn that uproots the 3 kings as not only speaking boastfully, which Solana is not doing, but he is also described as speaking 'against the Most High, and oppressing his saints' and 'this horn was waging war against the saints and defeating them'. This is in no way consistent with Solana.


It is my opinion that he does not have to do all of this all at once. A good example is 2 Thessalonians 2:4

4He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God's temple, proclaiming himself to be God.


This is an cross reference to Daniel 11:36-37, which describes the Antichrist's personality.

36 "The king will do as he pleases. He will exalt and magnify himself above every god and will say unheard-of things against the God of gods. He will be successful until the time of wrath is completed, for what has been determined must take place. 37 He will show no regard for the gods of his fathers or for the one desired by women, nor will he regard any god, but will exalt himself above them all.


Paul links this with an event that is a full 3.5 years into his political life. So, he is not necessarily required to manifest his entire personality immediately.

So the way I see it. Daniel 7:24-25, as you would agree, doesn't happen all overnight. It's a process. But the Daniel 7:25 part he just hasn't done yet. It (the boasting) will likely be in connection with his revealing in the temple. Also, he only persecutes the saints for 3.5 years.

And from Dan 7 and Rev 17 we know that the little horn rules the 10 kings and the world, which is in no way consistent with Solana. At this point in time, as Solana does not rule the 10 kings or the world, Solana does not oppress the saints or war against them, the supposed subduing of the UK, Germany and France really as no relevance to scripture at this point, there has been no fulfillment of any of the scripture associated with the suduing of the 3 kings (which would likely be a much more dramatic event as the term 'uprooted' is used along with subdued).


It is my understanding that he does not rule the whole world until the midpoint of the seven years (Revelation 13:5). Daniel 7:24 actually does not say the Antichrist rules the ten kings. He is a king that arises after them. As far as the term "uprooted" requiring a more dramatic event, I am curious what you would consider to be an event dramatic enough to constitute fulfillment of prophecy? That is, since the subduing is a non-violent event (see above).

Also, the ten kings start off as a regional power. This is evidenced by the fact that the Antichrist engages in regional warfare after he has arose (which occurs after the ten kings are present, who start off regional as well.) (Daniel 11:40-45) That is why I don't believe Solana has to rule the world just yet.

What I meant by "check off the list" was that the subduing happened at a point in time in the past. It was an event (process/event) that occurred in the past. Therefore I am proposing that it may have happened in history, regardless of the current situation. I understand the apparent difficulty with Solana's term having ended. However, if say hypothetically speaking, he gets some position in April or May. In the grand scheme of things he was only out of EU politics 4-5 months. Also, this may be a transition time. He has fulfilled many political prophecies, but no military one's. This may be the time that he transitions over to a military position in order to fulfill military ones. (just a conjecture.)

Also, the 3 kings in a way remain in subjection, because they are in subjection to the common foreign and security policy in the Lisbon treaty and if Solana were to gain a position they would remain in subjection.

Prophecy will not be fulfilled in a void, there will be other events associated with it as scripture describes, and Solana being the little horn is not consistent with scripture, so the subduing of 3 kings has not occcurred yet.


I do not understand why you are saying this is taking place in a void. Solana rose up after a ten nation miliary alliance in the area of the Roman Empire and also negotiated a seven year covenant with Israel and many others (Daniel 9:27).

Thanks for taking the time to read this and share your opinion.

Eschologizer
"for they themselves report what kind of reception you gave us. They tell how you turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God, and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead—Jesus, who rescues us from the coming wrath." 1 Thessalonians 1:9-10

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Re: Javier Solana Subdued 3 Kings

Postby Wickus on Mon Mar 01, 2010 12:26 pm

Eschologizer, when I read your posts you remind me of an young Timothy.

I really don't have anything to add but a big "thumbs up"! There is lots of study and wisdom in this post from you. I think that you and me will agree that if JS does not return to the picture by the mid point, then we have been on the wrong road. But the facts (I know everybody does not see it) is so overwhelming that I can not see him not coming back with great power.

Thanks Bro.

:blessyou:
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Re: Javier Solana Subdued 3 Kings

Postby James1:12 on Mon Mar 01, 2010 1:55 pm

Eschologizer, you've put all this together very well.

I have assumed that the subdueing of the 3 kings would be a big bang event, however that's not necesarily what scripture says. I'm still thinking this may happen later, with the same EU3, but they would have to reform this collective control over EU foreign policy and that perhaps suggests that the subdueing has already happened as you put it. Hmmmmm. Well if nothng else this puts even more emphasis on events this Summer, waiting waiting. I am still intrigued as to what new defense structures are going to emerge over the next few months, as these should prove vital to Europes future. Obama has just announced a new NPT approach for the US which will direct the rest of the world as to how to approach nuclear defence.
So many jig-saw pieces still foating around!
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Re: Javier Solana Subdued 3 Kings

Postby 1whowaits on Tue Mar 02, 2010 6:56 pm

Eschologizer, by stating that prophecy is not fulfilled in a void, i am referring to the context of scripture and what scripture states as to how a prophecy will be fulfilled in its entirety, not just 1 aspect, we cannot choose to see 1 aspect fulfilled when other aspects are directly associated with that fulfillment have not occured yet.

Dan 7 describes the little horn as coming up among the 10 horns and uprooting 3 horns. The little horn is described as having a mouth speaking boastfully just after describing the uprooting of the horns, suggesting that at the time the 3 horns are uprooted the little horn is speaking boastfully.

In Rev 13, the AC speaking boastfully is associated with his authority for 42 months, the time of the GT- 'The beast was given a mouth to utter proud words and blasphemies and to exercise his authority for 42 months.'

As it would appear from Dan 7 that the little horn is speaking boastfully at the time the 3 horns are uprooted, the 3 horns would appear to be uprooted around the time of the 42 months of the authority of the AC, the last 3.5 years of the 70th week.

The time of the 10 horns would appear to be the GT, not the first half of the 70th week- 'The ten horns you saw are ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but who for one hour will receive authority as kings along with the beast. They have one purpose and will give their power and authority to the beast.' Rev 17

The 10 horns of Dan 7 appear to be the same 10 horns of Rev 17, and both are taken over by the little horn, the beast, the AC. The beast receives his authority for 42 months, the latter half of the 70th week, the 10 horns receive their authority along with the beast, at the same time as the beast, for 1 hour, the 42 months, the latter half of the 70th week.

So as the 10 horns receive their authority as kings at the same time as the AC, they are described as not having kingdoms prior to that time (they have not yet received a kingdom), the uprooting of the 3 kings would occur during the latter half of the 70th week, not prior to that time.

As the 10 kings do not have appear to have authority prior to the latter half of the 70th week, and the uprooting of the 3 would have to then occur during the latter half of the week, the uprooting of the 3 could be the event that propels the kings to give the AC their authority, that and God's putting the thought into their hearts, as described in Rev 17.

The context of Dan 7 and Rev 17 would appear to point to the uprooting of the 3 horns (kings) as occurring around the time of or during the latter half of the 70th week. Also at that time the little horn, the AC, is given authority over the 10 horns and the world. And from Dan 7 it would appear that during the time the 3 horns are uprooted the little horn is speaking boastfully.

Solana does not fulfill this description, he is not ruling the 10 kings and he is not speaking boastfully. The uprooting of the 3 kings also does not appear to have been fulfilled at this point, the uprooting appears to occur when the AC speaks boastfully during the 42 months of the GT, and we are not in the GT.

In fact from Rev 17 it would appear that the 10 horns, the 10 kings, are not the 10 nation WEU group, the 10 horns do not have a kingdom prior to the time they receive power along with the AC. The 10 nation WEU does have kingdoms already, the kings of the 10 nation WEU will have kingdoms prior to the time of the AC, while the 10 kings of Rev 17 do not have kingdoms prior to that time.

The AC coming out of the EU is based on assumptions which may or may not be true, we need to keep an open mind. The covenant with the many does not necessarily come out of the EU, that is an assumption based on other assumptions. We need to consider the entire context of prophetic scripture, we need to conform our views to scripture, not the other way around.
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Re: Javier Solana Subdued 3 Kings

Postby James1:12 on Wed Mar 03, 2010 12:33 am

Eschologizer, by stating that prophecy is not fulfilled in a void, i am referring to the context of scripture and what scripture states as to how a prophecy will be fulfilled in its entirety, not just 1 aspect, we cannot choose to see 1 aspect fulfilled when other aspects are directly associated with that fulfillment have not occured yet.


1whowaits, it is possible, in my understanding, that the verse showing the uprooting of the 3 horns then the speaking boasfully could have a gap of time as these are two different events - albeit interlinked. The boasting must come after the uprooting otherwise there would be no reason or ability to boast. The question is, is the gap now too long as far asEschologizers timeline goes.....?

edited to add:

Eschologizer, having just read the email reply you posted from Solanas spokesperson, that perhaps sheds light on the fact that he has not uprooted the 3 horns yet as perhpas he ought to be undisputedly in position in the EU...just an idea.


My other thought on this has been that the uprooting is not done by the AC, but by the nations that support the 3 kings - the roots of their power. It would be a strange thing in the vision if 3 horns were plucked up by one. I've thought that elction defeat or government/parliament revolt would play a part.
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Re: Javier Solana Subdued 3 Kings

Postby Mr Baldy on Wed Mar 03, 2010 8:03 am

James1:12 wrote:My other thought on this has been that the uprooting is not done by the AC, but by the nations that support the 3 kings - the roots of their power. It would be a strange thing in the vision if 3 horns were plucked up by one.


In reading the passages of Scripture which support the uprooting and the power that the Antichrist is given, it may be that the Beast System, and the AC (man) are one in the same.

You have a very good point James1:12, this thought too, has crossed my mind as well.
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Re: Javier Solana Subdued 3 Kings

Postby 1whowaits on Wed Mar 03, 2010 2:32 pm

James, it is possible that there is a period of time between the uprooting of the 3 and the AC speaking boastfully, but the way Dan 7 reads it looks like the AC has significant power at the time he uproots the 3 (otherwise how could he uproot the 3?), and the time he has power begins at the 42 months. Rev 17 also appears to associate the time of the 10 horns and their power with the time the AC has power. It is possible that the 10 horns come to power prior to the AC but there appears to be some association with the uprooting of the 3 with the AC being in power, the AC's power being associated with the latter half of the week.

We make assumptions about what the AC does during the first half of the week but scripture does not state this directly. All we know is that it does appear that the AC confirms a covenant with the many for 1 week. What does confirming a covenant entail, does the confirmer need to be in power over a nation? Not necessarily, the covenant could refer to the Old Covenant or something within Israel itself, we don't know at this point. The belief that the AC makes a peace agreement or some national agreement with Israel is only a theory based on assumptions about the AC and his position prior to the middle of the 70th week.

The point of the uprooting of the 3 is that it appears to be associated with increasing the AC's stature or the increasing of his power, the 3 are 'uprooted', they 'fall', they are 'subdued' by the AC, and REv 17 describes the 10 horns giving the AC their power. The passage appears to indicate that the rule of the AC is increased by the unprooting of the 3- 'the other horn that came up, before which three of them fell- the horn that looked more imposing that the others and that had eyes and a mouth that spoke boastfully.' Dan 7:20.

Does this fit Solana, did 3 'fall' before him, has his power been increased? Is he still in power?
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Re: Javier Solana Subdued 3 Kings

Postby James1:12 on Thu Mar 04, 2010 12:42 am

Good points 1whowaits. In order to believe that he has uprooted 3 kings and that Solana is still in power over Europe or at least the WEU10 we have to assume some kind of secret plan and structure is in place- to be unveiled at the mid-point which is a bit of a stretch. I still lean towards the WEU coming to prominence later and the same EU3 we've seen being displaced at crisis time.
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Re: Javier Solana Subdued 3 Kings

Postby James1:12 on Thu Mar 04, 2010 1:37 pm

Just to add to that, I have just posted a story in this thread:
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=54591

But with two deputy secretary general jobs also to come up for grabs, smaller member states are jostling for position: "A number of countries don't like what is happening - that the three big ones are trying to forge deals on who gets what," an EU diplomat from a small member state told this website.


The EU3 have not gone away but opposition is forming, I think for me it's conclusive that they haven't yet been uprooted - it's also very interesting as to what solution may be forthcoming from these smaller member states.
Last edited by James1:12 on Sun Mar 07, 2010 4:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Javier Solana Subdued 3 Kings

Postby redeemed1953 on Fri Mar 05, 2010 10:53 pm

[quote="JayCee"]Daniel 9:25 may suggest that the 'speaking out against the Most High' is connected to the wearing down of the saints, and is possibly linked to the last three and a half years. Maybe we have a little way to go before we will hear of the boastful speaking? Or is the 'boastful' speaking political and therefore different?

The news media will be slow to report anything like this because they are too busy keeping up with Tiger or Brittany or anything but what doesn't really matter.
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Re: Javier Solana Subdued 3 Kings

Postby DutchLady on Sun Apr 04, 2010 3:41 am

Can I translate the first post for my own forum? They're probably not as fluent in English and I'd like to show them.
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Re: Javier Solana Subdued 3 Kings

Postby eschologizer on Fri May 07, 2010 10:16 am

Dutchlady, yes feel free to translate it for your forum.

-Eschologizer
"for they themselves report what kind of reception you gave us. They tell how you turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God, and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead—Jesus, who rescues us from the coming wrath." 1 Thessalonians 1:9-10

http://www.euprophecynews.com/
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