Daniels 70th week has not yet begun.
The pre-trib rapture has not yet occurred, therefore the last week of Daniel is yet future.
Wanna open a can of worms

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benny balerio wrote:Wanna open a can of worms
benny balerio wrote:Daniels 70th week has not yet begun.
Daniel 9:24-27 (King James Version)
24Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
25Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
26And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
27And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
benny balerio wrote:Now if you guys want a great explanation of Daniels 70 weeks then read the following:
benny balerio wrote:Has Israel(Daniels people) stopped sinning and has all of Israel recognized Jesus as their Lord and savior?
Romans 11:25-27 (King James Version)
25For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
benny balerio wrote:Also,...it is obvious that you are going to claim that the "he" would be identified as the lord Jesus.
Explain to this forum what the 7 year covenant is that is to be reneged on?
Daniel 9:24 (King James Version)
24Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
benny balerio wrote:The pronoun "he"at the beginning of the verse refers to the anti-christ, because the nearest antecedent is
clearly a reference to "the people of the prince who is come to destroy the city and the sanctuary"
1whowaits wrote:Just thought i would jump in here, Jesus did not confirm or strengthen a covenant for 7 years with anyone, Jesus did not put an end to sacrifice and offering as these did continue for years after His ascension, Jesus did not set up an abomination in the temple, and the 'end' that was decreed was not poured out on Jesus.
The covenant made by Jesus is an everlasting covenant and His covenant is described as such repeatedly in scripture. This by itself eliminates the 7 year confirming of the covenant as applying to Jesus in any way.
Jesus was cut off after the 69th week, but as the 70th week was not fulfilled by Jesus, or anyone else, it still has future fulfillment. And as what is described in vs 24 has not been fulfilled yet the 70th week still has future fulfillment. And it does appear that there is a discontinuity between weeks 69 and 70 as the 70th has not been fulfilled and Dan 9 :26 refers to the end coming like a flood and wars continuing to the end after the 69th week, suggesting that a future time beyond the 69th week (the end) was being referred to.
And a week does appear to be a 7 year period as the 69 weeks do appear to have been fulfilled over a 483 year period (based on the 360 day/yr calendar as calculated by some past scholar).
And as there is no evidence of a pre-70th week rapture described in scripture (pre-trib), the rapture cannot be used as a marker for determining the beginning of the 70th week.
watching wrote:Hi benny belario and 1whowaits,
I'm trying to make dinner right now, so it might be a while before I can respond to your posts.
Just letting you know, I'm still here.
benny balerio wrote:So what are we having for supper?
1whowaits wrote:BB, before your statement at the beginning of the thread would be valid, you must first prove that the rapture occurs at the beginning of the 70th week.
1whowaits wrote:Jesus did not confirm or strengthen a covenant for 7 years with anyone,
1whowaits wrote:Jesus did not put an end to sacrifice and offering as these did continue for years after His ascension
Hebrews 10:1-12 (King James Version)
1For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
2For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.
3But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.
4For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
5Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
6In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
7Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
8Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
9Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
10By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
11And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
12But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;[b]
1whowaits wrote:Jesus did not set up an abomination in the temple
Matthew 23:37-39 (King James Version)
37O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
38Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.
39For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the
Lord.
1whowaits wrote:and the 'end' that was decreed was not poured out on Jesus.
Revelation 19:11-21 (King James Version)
11And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
12His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
13And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
14And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
15And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
16And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
17And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
18That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
19And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
20And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
21And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.
1whowaits wrote:Jesus was cut off after the 69th week, but as the 70th week was not fulfilled by Jesus, or anyone else, it still has future fulfillment.
Daniel 9:24 (King James Version)
24Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
1whowaits wrote:Watching, Jesus did not confirm a covenant with anyone for 1 seven, this alone eliminates Jesus from being the one who confirms the covenant. Where does scripture ever mention Jesus confirming or strengthening a covenant for 1 seven? Jesus is the New Covenant, the everlasting covenant, He does not do this for 1 seven, and certainly not for 2 separate 3.5 year periods.
1whowaits wrote:And again Jesus did not put an end to sacrifice and offering, nor did He cause them to cease,
1whowaits wrote:Sacrifice and offering are no longer an atonement for sin, which is what Heb 10 is referring to,
1whowaits wrote:While Dan 9 does not specifically describe the AOD, it does allude to it, and the AOD is described repeatedly in other scripture (Dan 7, 11, 12, Matt 24, 2 Thess). Dan 9 is not interpreted in a vacuum, which you are attempting to do, it agrees with the rest of scripture which does describe the AC stopping the offering and setting up the AOD
Daniel 8:11
It set itself up to be as great as the Prince of the host; it took away the daily sacrifice from him, and the place of his sanctuary was brought low.
Daniel 8:12
Because of rebellion, the host of the saints and the daily sacrifice were given over to it. It prospered in everything it did, and truth was thrown to the ground.
Daniel 8:13
Then I heard a holy one speaking, and another holy one said to him, "How long will it take for the vision to be fulfilled—the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, the rebellion that causes desolation, and the surrender of the sanctuary and of the host that will be trampled underfoot?"
Daniel 9:21
while I was still in prayer, Gabriel, the man I had seen in the earlier vision, came to me in swift flight about the time of the evening sacrifice
Daniel 9:27
He will confirm a covenant with many for one 'seven.' In the middle of the 'seven' he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on a wing of the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him. "
Daniel 11:31
"His armed forces will rise up to desecrate the temple fortress and will abolish the daily sacrifice. Then they will set up the abomination that causes desolation.
Daniel 12:11
"From the time that the daily sacrifice is abolished and the abomination that causes desolation is set up, there will be 1,290 days.
Daniel 8:11 (Young's Literal Translation)
11And unto the prince of the host it exerteth itself, and by it taken away hath been the continual [sacrifice], and thrown down the base of his sanctuary.
Daniel 8:12 (Young's Literal Translation)
12And the host is given up, with the continual [sacrifice], through transgression, and it throweth down truth to the earth, and it hath worked, and prospered.
Daniel 8:13 (Young's Literal Translation)
13`And I hear a certain holy one speaking, and a certain holy one saith to the wonderful numberer who is speaking: Till when [is] the vision of the continual [sacrifice], and of the transgression, an astonishment, to make both sanctuary and host a treading down?
Daniel 9:27 (Young's Literal Translation)
27And he hath strengthened a covenant with many -- one week, and [in] the midst of the week he causeth sacrifice and present to cease, and by the wing of abominations he is making desolate, even till the consummation, and that which is determined is poured on the desolate one.'
Daniel 11:31 (Young's Literal Translation)
31And strong ones out of him stand up, and have polluted the sanctuary, the stronghold, and have turned aside the continual [sacrifice], and appointed the desolating abomination.
Daniel 12:11 (Young's Literal Translation)
11and from the time of the turning aside of the perpetual [sacrifice], and to the giving out of the desolating abomination, [are] days a thousand, two hundred, and ninety.
Dan 8:11 Yea, he magnified 1431 [himself] even to the prince 8269 of the host 6635, and by him the daily 8548 [sacrifice] was taken away 7311 7311 , and the place 4349 of his sanctuary 4720 was cast down 7993 .
Dan 8:12 And an host 6635 was given 5414 [him] against the daily 8548 [sacrifice] by reason of transgression 6588, and it cast down 7993 the truth 571 to the ground 776; and it practised 6213 , and prospered 6743 .
Dan 8:13 Then I heard 8085 one 259 saint 6918 speaking 1696 , and another 259 saint 6918 said 559 unto that certain 6422 [saint] which spake 1696 , How long [shall be] the vision 2377 [concerning] the daily 8548 [sacrifice], and the transgression 6588 of desolation 8074 , to give 5414 both the sanctuary 6944 and the host 6635 to be trodden under foot 4823?
Dan 11:31 And arms 2220 shall stand 5975 on his part, and they shall pollute 2490 the sanctuary 4720 of strength 4581, and shall take away 5493 the daily 8548 [sacrifice], and they shall place 5414 the abomination 8251 that maketh desolate 8074 .
Dan 12:11 And from the time 6256 [that] the daily 8548 [sacrifice] shall be taken away 5493 , and the abomination 8251 that maketh desolate 8074 set up 5414 , [there shall be] a thousand 505 two hundred 3967 and ninety 8673 days 3117.
http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Dan&c=9&v=27&t=KJV#27Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm 1396 the covenant 1285 with many 7227 for one 259 week 7620: and in the midst 2677 of the week 7620 he shall cause the sacrifice 2077 and the oblation 4503 to cease 7673 , and for the overspreading 3671 of abominations 8251 he shall make [it] desolate 8074 , even until the consummation 3617, and that determined 2782 shall be poured 5413 upon the desolate 8074 .
1whowaits wrote:Dan 9 is not interpreted in a vacuum, which you are attempting to do, it agrees with the rest of scripture which does describe the AC stopping the offering and setting up the AOD
benny balerio wrote:Watching,..you make things complicated when it is really all so simple.
You quote:
The Lord, Jesus Christ's ministry lasted for 3 1/2 years, before He was "cutoff." There are apparently 3 1/2 years (represented by "a time, times, and half a time;" "42 months;" and "1,260 days") remaining before this prophecy is fulfilled.
My Reply:
So are you implying that 486 1/2 years were fulfilled and that the anti-christ would only rule for 3 1/2 years?
Daniel 7:25 (King James Version)
25And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.
Daniel 12:11 (King James Version)
11And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.
Revelation 13:5 (King James Version)
5And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
1whowaits wrote:Watching, i may be misunderstanding you, so you do not think that the 'he' in Dan 9:27 is Jesus? I thought that was your opinion, please clarify.
1whowaits wrote:So if the 'he' is not the AC or Christ, who does the 'he' refer to?
1whowaits wrote:Clearly the 'he' does not refer to Christ as Christ does not confirm a covenant for 1 seven.
1whowaits wrote:The only other individual associated with a desolation in the temple/sanctuary/holy place, who stops the sacrifice and offering, who is a desloator that has an end poured out on him is the AC.
27And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
1whowaits wrote:You have another candidate perhaps?
1whowaits wrote:As far as the offerings and sacrifice, Rev 11 does describe a literal, physical temple of God in which there is an altar and worshippers. In the temple of God, in which there is an altar, the worshippers would be performing sacrifices on that altar. It would appear that the logical interpretation for all the passages that describe the 'continual' is that the continual sacrifice is being offered.
Dan 8:11 Yea, he magnified 1431 [himself] even to the prince 8269 of the host 6635, and by him the daily 8548 [sacrifice] was taken away 7311 7311 , and the place 4349 of his sanctuary 4720 was cast down 7993 .
Dan 8:12 And an host 6635 was given 5414 [him] against the daily 8548 [sacrifice] by reason of transgression 6588, and it cast down 7993 the truth 571 to the ground 776; and it practised 6213 , and prospered 6743 .
Dan 8:13 Then I heard 8085 one 259 saint 6918 speaking 1696 , and another 259 saint 6918 said 559 unto that certain 6422 [saint] which spake 1696 , How long [shall be] the vision 2377 [concerning] the daily 8548 [sacrifice], and the transgression 6588 of desolation 8074 , to give 5414 both the sanctuary 6944 and the host 6635 to be trodden under foot 4823?
Dan 11:31 And arms 2220 shall stand 5975 on his part, and they shall pollute 2490 the sanctuary 4720 of strength 4581, and shall take away 5493 the daily 8548 [sacrifice], and they shall place 5414 the abomination 8251 that maketh desolate 8074 .
Dan 12:11 And from the time 6256 [that] the daily 8548 [sacrifice] shall be taken away 5493 , and the abomination 8251 that maketh desolate 8074 set up 5414 , [there shall be] a thousand 505 two hundred 3967 and ninety 8673 days 3117.
Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm 1396 the covenant 1285 with many 7227 for one 259 week 7620: and in the midst 2677 of the week 7620 he shall cause the sacrifice 2077 and the oblation 4503 to cease 7673 , and for the overspreading 3671 of abominations 8251 he shall make [it] desolate 8074 , even until the consummation 3617, and that determined 2782 shall be poured 5413 upon the desolate 8074 .
1whowaits wrote:Jesus did not put an end to all sacrifice and offering. He did not put an end to the literal sacrifice as the sacrifices occurred long after He ascended, He did not stop them, they did not cease until 30 years later when the Romans stopped them. So the statement in Dan 9:27 does not apply to Jesus.
Daniel 9:27 (King James Version)
27And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
1whowaits wrote:Jesus made 1 function of a certain sacrifice void, the sin offering, but He did not make all sacrifices and offerings void, they can still be relevant and do appear to resume during the millenium (fellowship offering part of the Feast of Tabernacles celerated yearly during the millenium, 'sacrifice' specifically mentioned in Zech 14).
Hebrews 10:1-12 (King James Version)
1For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
2For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.
3But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.
4For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
5Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
6In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
7Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
8Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
9Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
10By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
11And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
12But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
1whowaits wrote:As it is clear from scripture that Jesus does not confirm a covenant for 1 seven, and Jesus did not put an end to sacrifice and offering, Dan 9:27 is referring to someone else. And the logical conclusion from the other scriptures would be that that someone is the AC, the little horn, the king.
1whowaits wrote:Watching, the scriptures do speak for themselves as Jesus is never described as confirming a covenant for 1 seven anywhere in scripture.
Matthew 3:13-17 (King James Version)
13Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him.
14But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?
15And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.
16And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
17And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
1whowaits wrote:That is my opinion and a logical conclusion based on scripture and there is no information whatsoever in scripture to contradict that logical conclusion.
1whowaits wrote:Zech 14 : 21 clearly states 'all who come to sacrifice', in the context of the millenium when all nations go up to Jerusalem to celebrate the feast of Tabernacles and to worship Jesus. Sacrifices will continue during the millenium while Jesus rules, suggesting that Jesus approves of the sacrifices as He has the power to stop all sacrifices if He so desires.
Hebrews 10:1-12 (King James Version)
Hebrews 10
1For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
2For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.
3But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.
4For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
5Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
6In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
7Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
8Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
9Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
10By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
11And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
12But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
1whowaits wrote:And 'causing to cease' and 'putting an end' to sacrifice is essentially the same action, there is no significant difference as you appear to indicate.
1whowaits wrote:The only logical conclusion based on the information we are given from scripture is that Jesus is not the 'he' of Dan 9:27. That would then suggest that there is someone else that is the 'he' of Dan 9:27.
1whowaits wrote:And this is further confirmed by Jesus' own words in Matt 24 as He refers to the setting up of an abomination that is described in Daniel. Jesus describes HIs return as occurring sometime after the abomination, after the time of distress, so it is clear that Jesus is not the one involved with the abomination in the holy place. As Dan 8 and 11 do describe an individual (the little horn/king)associated with setting up an abomination/desolation, and the stopping of the continual (sacrifice), there is someone associated with the stopping of the sacrifice and the abomination/desolation of the temple.
Matthew 24 (King James Version)
1And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
2And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
3And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
4And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
5For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
6And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
7For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
8All these are the beginning of sorrows.
9Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
10And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
11And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
12And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
13But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
14And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
15When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
16Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
23Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25Behold, I have told you before.
26Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
28For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
29Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
32Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
33So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
34Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
35Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
36But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
37But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
40Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
41Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
42Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
43But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
44Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.
45Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?
46Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
47Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.
48But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;
49And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;
50The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,
51And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
1whowaits wrote:As it is clear from scripture that Jesus does not confirm a covenant for 1 seven, and Jesus did not put an end to sacrifice and offering, Dan 9:27 is referring to someone else. And the logical conclusion from the other scriptures would be that that someone is the AC, the little horn, the king.
Woe to those who go down to Egypt for help, [who] rely upon horses and put their faith in chariots because they are numerous and in cavalry because it is strong, but who have not looked to the Holy One of Israel, and have not sought the Lord.
Isaiah 31:1
You shall not say "an alliance (i.e., with Assyria)" [as the solution] for everything [for] which this people may say "an alliance (i.e., with Assyria)" [as the solution] (cf. Is.30:1). And you shall not fear that which makes them afraid nor tremble at it (i.e., the threat of the northern kingdom allied with Syria). It is the Lord of Hosts whom you shall sanctify, and He is the One who shall be your fear, and He is the One at whom you shall tremble.
Isaiah 8:12-13
What will you say when [the Lord] puts in charge over you as commanders those very ones whom you courted (i.e., the Babylonians)?
Jeremiah 13:21a
(4) Thus says the Lord my God: "Pasture the flock of the slaughter. (5) Those who buy them will slaughter them and will not be held to account and those who pasture them will not take pity on them. (6) For I will no longer take pity on the inhabitants of the land," says the Lord. "For, behold, I am going to hand over [all] mankind each into the hand of his neighbor and each into the hand of his king, for they will crush the earth and I will not deliver out of their hands." (7) So I pastured the flock of slaughter, that is, those of the flock to be afflicted, and I took for myself two staffs. I called the one "Delight" and the other "Bindings", and [thus] I pastured the flock. (8) After I humbled the three shepherds in the first month, my heart had become grieved with [the flock], and they had come to detest me. (9) So I said, "I will not pasture you [any longer]. Let those destined to die, die, and let those destined to be humbled, be humbled, and let the remainder eat each one the flesh of his companion". (10) Then I took my staff [named] "Delight", and I broke it so as to break the covenant which I had made with all the peoples. (11) And it was broken on that [very] day, and thus those to be afflicted who were watching me knew that this was the word of the Lord. (12) Then I said to them, "If it seems good in your eyes, give me my wages, but if not, then do not". And they weighed out my wages to me, thirty [pieces] of silver. (13) And the Lord said to me, "Throw it to the potter['s field], [this] magnificent price at which I have been valued by them." So I took the thirty pieces of silver and threw them into the house of the Lord to the potter['s field]. (14) Then I broke my second staff [named] "Bindings" so as to break the brotherhood between Judah and Israel. (15) Then the Lord said to me, "Take up for yourself now the equipment of a godless shepherd. (16) For, behold, I am going to raise up a shepherd in the land who will not look after the humbled, nor seek the [lost] young, nor heal the sick, nor provide for the healthy, but will eat the flesh of the fat and tear off their hooves." (17) Woe to the wicked shepherd who abandons the flock. A sword upon his arm and upon his right eye! And may his arm shrivel and his right eye go blind!
Zechariah 11:4-17
And as for you, O defiled [and] wicked prince of Israel, whose day will come at the evil end time (i.e., the Tribulation), this is what the Lord God says, "Take off his [royal] turban and remove his crown. This will not stand (i.e., he and his regime will be deposed). Exalt the humble, but humble the exalted. I will make [his land] a ruin, a ruin, a ruin. But this too shall not happen until the One to whom judgment belongs shall come (i.e., the Messiah), for [to this] have I appointed Him" (cf. Jn.5:22; Acts 10:42; 1Pet.4:5).
Ezekiel 21:25-27
Then he (i.e., antichrist) will confirm an agreement (or "covenant"; Hebrew, ברית, beriyth) with the powerful [in Israel] during [that] one [remaining] week (i.e., the 70th week, the Tribulation), but in the middle of the week (i.e., just prior to the Tribulation's mid-point) he will put a halt to sacrifice and offering (i.e., eliminating Moses and Elijah and interrupting the temple rites). And on account of the extreme [nature] of [his] abominations, he [will] be causing desolations (i.e., desertion and estrangement from God), even until the end when what has been determined will be poured out upon the one characterized by [this] desolation (i.e., the beast as archetype and cause of the alienation and rebellion from God which he fosters).
Daniel 9:27
watching wrote:Hi Benny,benny balerio wrote:Watching,..you make things complicated when it is really all so simple.
You quote:
The Lord, Jesus Christ's ministry lasted for 3 1/2 years, before He was "cutoff." There are apparently 3 1/2 years (represented by "a time, times, and half a time;" "42 months;" and "1,260 days") remaining before this prophecy is fulfilled.
My Reply:
So are you implying that 486 1/2 years were fulfilled and that the anti-christ would only rule for 3 1/2 years?
Isn't that what the scriptures say (or about that long)? See below:Daniel 7:25 (King James Version)
25And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.Daniel 12:11 (King James Version)
11And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.Revelation 13:5 (King James Version)
5And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
benny balerio wrote:Hi Watcher,
The beast is given authority to "Continue for 42 months.
Ask yourself the question,..."CONTINUED FROM WHAT?
The last week of Daniel is 7 years in length(Daniel 9;27)
in the middle point of Daniels 70th week..the Ac commits the A.O.D. which successfully stops the sacrifices,..you should know that if the temple is defiled that the Jews will not sacrifice again , not until the temple has been cleaned through ceremony
Mid point meaning at the half way mark of a specificline or time period,...thus "Continued 42 months.
http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G4160&t=KJVPrinted from the Blue Letter Bible
Lexicon Results
Strong's G4160 - poieō
ποιέω
Transliteration
poieō
Pronunciation
poi-e'-ō (Key)
Part of Speech
verb
Root Word (Etymology)
Apparently a prolonged form of an obsolete primary
TDNT Reference
6:458,895
Vines
View Entry
Outline of Biblical Usage
1) to make
a) with the names of things made, to produce, construct, form, fashion, etc.
b) to be the authors of, the cause
c) to make ready, to prepare
d) to produce, bear, shoot forth
e) to acquire, to provide a thing for one's self
f) to make a thing out of something
g) to (make i.e.) render one anything
1) to (make i.e.) constitute or appoint one anything, to appoint or ordain one that
2) to (make i.e.) declare one anything
h) to put one forth, to lead him out
i) to make one do something
1) cause one to
j) to be the authors of a thing (to cause, bring about)
2) to do
a) to act rightly, do well
1) to carry out, to execute
b) to do a thing unto one
1) to do to one
c) with designation of time: to pass, spend
d) to celebrate, keep
1) to make ready, and so at the same time to institute, the celebration of the passover
e) to perform: to a promise
Watching, I have been reading through your posts because in our Daniel bible study last night I noticed the "After" in 9:26 and I had never noticed it before. And that got the wheels turning a bit.
So here is a question for you based on your interpretation of Daniel. How do you interpret the remainder of Daniel 9:26, specifically, "the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary"....
What is that section of the verse referring to in your understanding?
I might as well throw this question in also. What does the "it" refer to in v27? Is the "it" the covenant that is made desolate? If so, what does that mean?
watching wrote:Hi Pegmo,
I'm still thinking about an answer for your question.
I tried to type up an answer on line, but it turns out, I would probably have to write an entire commentary, since there are a number of alternatives, and I really do not have a clear cut answer at this point.
I'll keep working on it, though. But it may take a few days before I can get back to you.
watching wrote:benny balerio wrote:Hi Watcher,
The beast is given authority to "Continue for 42 months.
Ask yourself the question,..."CONTINUED FROM WHAT?
The last week of Daniel is 7 years in length(Daniel 9;27)
in the middle point of Daniels 70th week..the Ac commits the A.O.D. which successfully stops the sacrifices,..you should know that if the temple is defiled that the Jews will not sacrifice again , not until the temple has been cleaned through ceremony
Mid point meaning at the half way mark of a specificline or time period,...thus "Continued 42 months.
Hi Benny,
I hate to disappoint you, but I looked up the word that was translated as "continue" in Revelation 13:5, and it turns out that it doesn't mean continue at all. Here is the Blue Letter Bible definition:http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G4160&t=KJVPrinted from the Blue Letter Bible
Lexicon Results
Strong's G4160 - poieō
ποιέω
Transliteration
poieō
Pronunciation
poi-e'-ō (Key)
Part of Speech
verb
Root Word (Etymology)
Apparently a prolonged form of an obsolete primary
TDNT Reference
6:458,895
Vines
View Entry
Outline of Biblical Usage
1) to make
a) with the names of things made, to produce, construct, form, fashion, etc.
b) to be the authors of, the cause
c) to make ready, to prepare
d) to produce, bear, shoot forth
e) to acquire, to provide a thing for one's self
f) to make a thing out of something
g) to (make i.e.) render one anything
1) to (make i.e.) constitute or appoint one anything, to appoint or ordain one that
2) to (make i.e.) declare one anything
h) to put one forth, to lead him out
i) to make one do something
1) cause one to
j) to be the authors of a thing (to cause, bring about)
2) to do
a) to act rightly, do well
1) to carry out, to execute
b) to do a thing unto one
1) to do to one
c) with designation of time: to pass, spend
d) to celebrate, keep
1) to make ready, and so at the same time to institute, the celebration of the passover
e) to perform: to a promise
It basically means "to do", "to make," "to perform." I don't see "continue" in the definition anywhere. Do you?
benny balerio wrote:Actually I Do,
to put one forth, to lead him out
to produce, bear, shoot forth
to be the authors of a thing (to cause, bring about)
to carry out, to execute
with designation of time: to pass, spend
benny balerio wrote:In January 1st,2007 were the Prophecy of Daniel 9;27
there are about 3 months and 3 1/2 weeks to build the third temple, begin it's sacrifices, stop the sacrifices and commit the A.O.D.Also included,...there are not two wittnesses on the wold scene who must be slain at the A.O.D. and no sight of the 1,000 jews,...there are no sight of 1/3rd of the tree's,and all the green grass is still present.
A third of the sea has not turned into blood, and nothing resembling a great mountain has not fallen into the sea.
Sea creatures are still present and no mass destruction of maritime vessels have been sighted,...I think my point is clear.
January 1st, 2007 is not Daniel 9;27
benny balerio wrote:...I think my point is clear.
January 1st, 2007 is not Daniel 9;27
watching wrote:Hi Benny,benny balerio wrote:Actually I Do,
to put one forth, to lead him out
to produce, bear, shoot forth
to be the authors of a thing (to cause, bring about)
to carry out, to execute
with designation of time: to pass, spend
I still don't see "to continue" in that definition.
Revelation 13:5 (King James Version)
5And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
Revelation 13:5 (1550 Stephanus New Testament)
5και εδοθη αυτω στομα λαλουν μεγαλα και βλασφημιας και εδοθη αυτω εξουσια ποιησαι μηνας τεσσαρακοντα δυο
watching wrote:Hi Benny,
I still don't see how any of those definitions imply a previous starting point.
In fact, I don't see any reason why "continue" would, in and of itself, imply a previous starting point, within the context with which it was written in Revelation 13:5.Revelation 13:5 (King James Version)
5And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
From the way I'm understanding the text, he was given power to continue from the beginning of the 42 months to the end of the 42 months. There is no indication that he is given authority for any length of time other than the 42 months.
Now, if the text had said, he was given authority to continue for another 42 months, then I would most definitely agree that you have made your case. But, that is not what the text says. Here is what it says exactly:Revelation 13:5 (1550 Stephanus New Testament)
5και εδοθη αυτω στομα λαλουν μεγαλα και βλασφημιας και εδοθη αυτω εξουσια ποιησαι μηνας τεσσαρακοντα δυο
και and εδοθη was given αυτω [unto] him στομα a mouth λαλουν speaking μεγαλα great [things]
και and βλασφημιας blasphemies και and εδοθη was given αυτω [unto] him εξουσια power ποιησαι to perform (full definition is given above) μηνας months τεσσαρακοντα forty δυο two
http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Rev&c=13&v=5&t=KJV#top
So, as far as I can see, you have not proven, by the use of the word "continue," (which may not have been the best word choice in terms of translation, to begin with), that he is given authority to do anything for any length of time other than the 42 months which are allotted to him, according to the text.
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