Page 2 of 2

Re: What Civilization represents the First Beast of Daniel 7

PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 7:21 am
by extravagantchristian
:eek: Yikes, I can imagine how many people are going to fall for it and believe that the AC is God.

Re: What Civilization represents the First Beast of Daniel 7

PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 8:59 am
by lambslave
Keith, AS I focus on your question about what civilization represents the first beast of chapter 7, I would say Akkadian. Verse 4 may describe the overall journey of the Akkadian civilization from its height, through its lessons, to the heart of a man, as we see happened to Nebuchadnezzar. Next Daniel sees the Mesopotamian civilization, verse 5. Raised up on one side--Persia was the strong side; the Median side weaker. Next, verse 6, Greece, under
Alexander followed by his four generals when he died. LS

Re: What Civilization represents the First Beast of Daniel 7

PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 11:39 am
by IamtheWalrus
Satan already fell from heaven.

Isaiah 14:12-14, Ezekiel 28:12-18, Job 38:4–7, Genesis 3:1–14, Job 1:6–7, Isaiah 14:12-15, Ezekiel 28:12-15, Genesis 3:1–5, Isaiah 14:15; Ezekiel 28:16-17, Matthew 4:8-9, Ephesians 2:2; 6:12, 1 John 5:19

Re: What Civilization represents the First Beast of Daniel 7

PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 12:26 pm
by extravagantchristian
There is the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd heaven. 1st is our atmosphere, 2nd is space, and 3rd is where Jesus is I think. Maybe Satan was cast out of the 3rd heaven and now he's stuck somewhere in the 1st or 2nd.

Re: What Civilization represents the First Beast of Daniel 7

PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 3:41 pm
by LastDaysBroadcast
Howdy All -

Give this a look - see if it helps in the discussion - http://lastdaysblogcast.blogspot.com/2007/06/urgent-initial-message.html

Re: What Civilization represents the First Beast of Daniel 7

PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 9:33 pm
by keithareilly
Lambslave,

Why Akkadian Empire? From What I can tell it existed over 1500 years before Daneil was born. Have I got the timing wrong or do you have another reason?

Dan 7:15 "I, Daniel, was troubled in spirit, and the visions that passed through my mind disturbed me. 16 I approached one of those standing there and asked him the true meaning of all this. "So he told me and gave me the interpretation of these things: 17 'The four great beasts are four kingdoms that will rise from the earth. 18 But the saints of the Most High will receive the kingdom and will possess it forever—yes, for ever and ever.'

Daniel Says the Kingdom is future from the point in time of the vision. Hard to beleive is was the neo Babalonian empire or any prior empire as this prophecy took place during the last of the Babalonian Kings, Belshazaar.

Neo-Babylonian Rulers:
Nabopolassar- 625-604 BC
Nebuchadrezzar II (s)- 604-568 BC --------> Conquers Israel
Evil-Merodach (s)- 561-560 BC
Neriglissar (brother-in-law)- 559-556 BC
Labosoarchad (s)- 556 BC
Nabonidus- 555-539 BC
Belshazzar- 539 BC
Cyrus conquered Babylonia in 539 BC ------> Allows Israel's return


Keith

Re: What Civilization represents the First Beast of Daniel 7

PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 9:41 pm
by keithareilly
LastDays...

The British empire is a better candidate for the fourth beast. If we consider historic empires, The British and Ottoman empires are the best candidates. The British because it was histories largest empire, created the longitude and latitude lines that cut the earth into pieces, and established the time zones. The british also held Israel just before it was turned over to the Jews in 1948.

Keith

Re: What Civilization represents the First Beast of Daniel 7

PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 10:12 pm
by 1whowaits
Walrus, EC, although God may have kicked Satan out of His heaven at some point in the past, Satan still has access to the throne and the Spirit world, as noted in Job. But in Rev 12 Satan is cast down and confined to the earth, apparently he no longer has access to the throne or the spirit world, the fall of Satan to the earth appears to be a future event.

Ezek 28 appears to confirm this- 'So I threw you to the earth: I made a spectacle of you before kings.' When was Satan ever made a spectacle of before kings? This has not happened yet, it is a future event, and this would be consistent with what Rev 12 describes. Satan will lose the war in heaven and he and his angels will be thrown down to the earth and made a spectacle of before kings, it would appear that Satan's fall to earth will be a visible event.

If Satan were to arrive on earth in the sight of men that would cause quite a stir, but in reality mankind has already been prepared for such an event. It would be quite easy for Satan to present himself as some ancient astronaut/god who has returned to the earth to save us from ourselves, and men would believe it, they would accept a lie over the truth. And actually there is an ancient 'god', a god of the force of the wind, a feathered serpent/dragon, who was believed to have established ancient cultures and then left and is supposed to return in 2012, the year the new agers believe everything will change.

Satan may actually have his fall to earth all planned out in advance, he can read the scripture also, he knows that this event will happen.

Re: What Civilization represents the First Beast of Daniel 7

PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 11:16 pm
by IamtheWalrus
1whowaits wrote:
Ezek 28 appears to confirm this- 'So I threw you to the earth: I made a spectacle of you before kings.' When was Satan ever made a spectacle of before kings? This has not happened yet, it is a future event, and this would be consistent with what Rev 12 describes. Satan will lose the war in heaven and he and his angels will be thrown down to the earth and made a spectacle of before kings, it would appear that Satan's fall to earth will be a visible event.


But what about Job, when Satan is running to and fro...on the earth?

If Satan were to arrive on earth in the sight of men that would cause quite a stir, but in reality mankind has already been prepared for such an event. It would be quite easy for Satan to present himself as some ancient astronaut/god who has returned to the earth to save us from ourselves, and men would believe it, they would accept a lie over the truth. And actually there is an ancient 'god', a god of the force of the wind, a feathered serpent/dragon, who was believed to have established ancient cultures and then left and is supposed to return in 2012, the year the new agers believe everything will change.


The Scientologists will love this one!

Satan ..... he can read the scripture also, he knows that this event will happen.


Yes he does! But it is up to us to have wisdom :)

Re: What Civilization represents the First Beast of Daniel 7

PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 9:27 pm
by 1whowaits
Walrus, in Job Satan goes before God and talks with Him, Satan is not confined to the earth, he has access to heaven. One would think that if Satan had been cast down to earth as described in Isa 14 and Ezek 28, he wouldn't be allowed to go back to heaven. It is then more likely that the casting of Satan to earth described in these passages is a future event, fulfilled when Satan loses the war in heaven (he is still has access to heaven up to the midpoint), and is cast to earth, at the middle of the 70th week.

And yes the scientologists and many new agers are going to love it when some powerful, benvolent being, (anyone other than God) shows up to save the world from itself. God will send delusion and they will believe a lie because they don't want to believe the truth.

The kingdom of the beast is more than any Isalmic or european kingdom, and much worse than they could ever be. The kingdom of the beast is a worldwide kingdom ruled by the AC directly and Satan indirectly, with what appears to be demon beings as 'enforcers' (the demon locusts of the abyss), also likely called the 'overwhelming scourge' in Isa 28 (when an overwhelming scourge sweeps by, it cannot touch us, for we have made a lie our refuge...your covenant with death will be annulled...when the overwhelming scourge sweeps by, you will be beaten down by it. As often as it comes it will sweep you away..the understanding of this message will bring sheer terror)

Re: What Civilization represents the First Beast of Daniel 7

PostPosted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 2:58 pm
by jwrquest
The best exegesis I have found on interpreting all of these things discussed here is found at:

http://www.biblestudying.net/rev-symbols.html

I feel more comfortable letting scripture interpret itself as opposed to looking for imagery of different animals with various characteristics on maps of ancient and current kingdoms.


:boxer:

Re: What Civilization represents the First Beast of Daniel 7

PostPosted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 9:51 pm
by keithareilly
Jwrquest,

OK,

So what do you conclude and why?

keith

Re: What Civilization represents the First Beast of Daniel 7

PostPosted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 11:15 pm
by Douggg
1whowaits wrote:If Satan were to arrive on earth in the sight of men that would cause quite a stir, but in reality mankind has already been prepared for such an event. It would be quite easy for Satan to present himself as some ancient astronaut/god who has returned to the earth to save us from ourselves, and men would believe it, they would accept a lie over the truth. And actually there is an ancient 'god', a god of the force of the wind, a feathered serpent/dragon, who was believed to have established ancient cultures and then left and is supposed to return in 2012, the year the new agers believe everything will change.

Satan may actually have his fall to earth all planned out in advance, he can read the scripture also, he knows that this event will happen.


Hi 1ww,

My own personal thinking is that Satan when he is kicked down to earth just after the mid-point of the 7 years is that he will incarnate the AOD statue and that is what animates it, to speak, to come to alive, and demand everyone to worship it (him). Then when Jesus returns, the walls of the temple building will be toppled down - with the AOD then exposed out in the open. Then Jesus will melt away the outer fascade of the AOD statue and Satan will be exposed there on the temple mount for all to see. Then a lone angel with a great chain will bind Satan and he will be cast into the bottomless pit - which may be a portal in the sky will open and he will be cast in to that and then it will close behind him.

Doug L

Re: What Civilization represents the First Beast of Daniel 7

PostPosted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 1:16 pm
by 1whowaits
jrquest, yes it is better to let scripture interpret scripture, except the person who did this study appears to ignore a significant statement in scripture in putting forth his view.

While the statue in Dan 2 is associated with kingdoms of the past, the beasts of Dan 7 and 8 are associated with kingdoms of the future. Dan 7 states that the beasts, the kingdoms described, are still present when the kingdom of the AC is cast into the fire and Jesus receives the kingdom- 'the other beasts had been stripped of their authority, but were allowed to live for a period of time.'

Dan 8 also states- 'I am going to tell what will happen later in the time of wrath, because the vision concerns the appointed time of the end.' The time of God's wrath is typically described as Jesus' return at armageddon, and the time of the end, as described in Daniel and elsewhere in scripture, is associated with Jesus' return and the resurrection.

The time of the end has not occurred yet, unless we missed it somewhere along the line. The time of the end is still in the future, as is the receiving of the kingdom by Jesus, as is the destruction of the kingdom of the AC, which would mean that the kingdoms described in Dan 7 and 8 are future (our present) kingdoms.

Re: What Civilization represents the First Beast of Daniel 7

PostPosted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 1:24 pm
by 1whowaits
Doug, interesting theory, i am thinking that Satan posseses the AC, he gives him his power and authority and the fatal wound of the AC is healed. I speculate that the image could be a clone of the AC, the clone has no spirit, and the FP is given power to bring it to life, perhaps putting some demonic spirit in it. The FP and AC and Satan later spit out demons in Rev 16, apparently they have demons inside that they can send out. Actually it is not clear exactly what the image is, theories abound.

Re: What Civilization represents the First Beast of Daniel 7

PostPosted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 1:52 pm
by Douggg
1whowaits wrote:Doug, interesting theory, i am thinking that Satan posseses the AC, he gives him his power and authority and the fatal wound of the AC is healed. I speculate that the image could be a clone of the AC, the clone has no spirit, and the FP is given power to bring it to life, perhaps putting some demonic spirit in it. The FP and AC and Satan later spit out demons in Rev 16, apparently they have demons inside that they can send out. Actually it is not clear exactly what the image is, theories abound.


Hi 1ww, the reason I don't think that Satan possesses the AC is because at the end, the AC and FP are thrown into the lake of fire, while Satan is cast into the bottomless pit. Also the three evil spirits, come out of the three separate mouths, of the AC, FP, and the Dragon (Satan). Interestingly, in the Left Behind Series, Lehaye tried to compensate for that factor by saying one evil spirit came out of the mouth of the FP and two out of the mouth of the AC.....it was either that or change his story line :mrgreen:

The other thing is that we don't have any mention of what happens to AOD. The AOD given its significance, central to much that will trigger the Jews to flee into the hills, and that everyone will be required worship the image of the AC or die (Revelation 13:15)....for there to be no destruction of the AOD at Jesus's return seems to me to be missing something. So I am of the opinion, that when Satan is exposed, that AOD will be center stage..

Doug L.