The Mark

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The Mark

Postby Sonbeam on Sat Mar 27, 2021 10:07 am

I saw this subject come up in another thread, and I think that for some of us (myself included at times) worrying about receiving “THE mark” is the cause of much stress.

Here are some scriptures we need to meditate on to set our hearts and minds at rest:

Mark 7
17 After he had left the crowd and entered the house, his disciples asked him about this parable.

18 “Are you so dull?” he asked. “Don’t you see that nothing that enters a person from the outside can defile them? 19 For it doesn’t go into their heart but into their stomach, and then out of the body.” (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods clean.)


Now in the above passage we could easily think of/substitute the word “flesh” – the outward flesh -- for the word “stomach” IMO.

The main thing for us to realize is that our salvation is in the Spirit, not in the flesh, as our Lord alluded to in John 6:63

John 6:63

63 The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you—they are full of the Spirit and life.

The Holy Spirit through Paul reveals the Lord’s Words in their fullness in the following scriptures:



Eph 1:13-15

13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 
14 who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.


Eph 4:30

And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.


Now if and when the time comes (personally I don’t see that happening any time soon) for the giving of “the mark,” if any of us here are still alive (very doubtful I will be :wink: ), don’t take it because you think that if you do
you will lose your salvation. That will be denying the grace that saved you.

The good news is that whether anyone takes “the mark” or not (for whatever reason) this will have absolutely no bearing on your salvation.

:blessyou:
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Re: The Mark

Postby Ready1 on Sat Mar 27, 2021 11:59 am

Sonbeam wrote:I saw this subject come up in another thread, and I think that for some of us (myself included at times) worried about receiving “THE mark,” here are some scriptures we need to meditate on to set our hearts and minds at rest:

Mark 7
17 After he had left the crowd and entered the house, his disciples asked him about this parable.

18 “Are you so dull?” he asked. “Don’t you see that nothing that enters a person from the outside can defile them? 19 For it doesn’t go into their heart but into their stomach, and then out of the body.” (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods clean.)


Now in the above passage we could easily think of/substitute the word “flesh” – the outward flesh -- for the word “stomach” IMO.

The main thing for us to realize is that our salvation is in the Spirit, not in the flesh, as our Lord alluded to in John 6:63

John 6:63

63 The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you—they are full of the Spirit and life.

The Holy Spirit through Paul reveals the Lord’s Words in their fullness in the following scriptures:



Eph 1:13-15

13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 
14 who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.


Eph 4:30

And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.


Now if and when the time comes (personally I don’t see that happening any time soon) for the giving of “the mark,” if any of us here are still alive (very doubtful I will be :wink: ), don’t take it because you think that if you do
you will lose your salvation. That will be denying the grace that saved you.

The good news is that whether anyone takes “the mark” or not (for whatever reason) this will have absolutely no bearing on your salvation.

:blessyou:


What you just wrote sounds contrary to the following...

Rev 14:9 Then a third angel followed them, shouting, "Anyone who worships the beast and his statue or who accepts his mark on the forehead or on the hand
Rev 14:10 must drink the wine of God's anger. It has been poured full strength into God's cup of wrath. And they will be tormented with fire and burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and the Lamb.
Rev 14:11 The smoke of their torment will rise forever and ever, and they will have no relief day or night, for they have worshiped the beast and his statue and have accepted the mark of his name."
Rev 14:12 This means that God's holy people must endure persecution patiently, obeying His commands and maintaining their faith in Jesus.

Just observing.

E.
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Re: The Mark

Postby Jericho on Sat Mar 27, 2021 12:59 pm

I agree with Ready1 on this one. The Bible makes it clear not to take the mark and the consequences if you do. We simply don't know what all the mark will consist of and what you must do to get it. Will you have to have to swear your allegiance to the antichrist to get it? Will it alter your DNA? With so many unknowns it is presumptions to state that if you take it's no big deal. It apparently corrupts the soul, and maybe even the physical. Besides that, If you are willing to compromise for the mark then what else would you be willing to compromise on? That is a very slippery slope.
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Re: The Mark

Postby Sonbeam on Sat Mar 27, 2021 3:30 pm

Ready1 said:

What you just wrote sounds contrary to the following...

Rev 14:9 Then a third angel followed them, shouting, "Anyone who worships the beast and his statue or who accepts his mark on the forehead or on the hand
Rev 14:10 must drink the wine of God's anger. It has been poured full strength into God's cup of wrath. And they will be tormented with fire and burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and the Lamb.
Rev 14:11 The smoke of their torment will rise forever and ever, and they will have no relief day or night, for they have worshiped the beast and his statue and have accepted the mark of his name."
Rev 14:12 This means that God's holy people must endure persecution patiently, obeying His commands and maintaining their faith in Jesus.


Yes it does. But when interpreting a passage like the one above, which seems to imply that the saints "will lose" their salvation if they take the mark, we need to look at all the scriptures, like some of the ones that I quoted, which directly speak to the permanent status of our salvation.

The scriptures I quoted in my opening post do explicitly speak to the security we have in Christ through the deposit and seal of the Holy Spirit who is the One who guarantees our salvation. We do not. Regardless of what we do or don't do in the flesh, our salvation is secured in Christ.

We need to be reminded often (myself included) that we are not under Law. Under the New Covenant we are under the Grace of God.

:blessyou:
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Re: The Mark

Postby Sonbeam on Sat Mar 27, 2021 4:04 pm

Jericho wrote:I agree with Ready1 on this one. The Bible makes it clear not to take the mark and the consequences if you do.


Rev makes it clear what will happen to "anyone" who takes the mark. But first we must define how the word "anyone" is defined in the Greek language. Those of you here who are Greek scholars might check it out.

According to Strongs G5100, "anyone" may mean any "man."

And the children of God are no longer "men." The saints are no longer of the generation of man (Adam). They now belong to the generation of Christ.

Jericho wrote:We simply don't know what all the mark will consist of and what you must do to get it. Will you have to have to swear your allegiance to the antichrist to get it? Will it alter your DNA? With so many unknowns it is presumptions to state that if you take it's no big deal. It apparently corrupts the soul, and maybe even the physical. Besides that, If you are willing to compromise for the mark then what else would you be willing to compromise on? That is a very slippery slope.


I am definitely not advocating taking the mark Jericho.

What I'm saying because of the scriptures I quoted, and I believe what they say, is that taking the mark (either to buy food for our families or because we are forced to take it) will not impact the status of our salvation.


:blessyou:
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Re: The Mark

Postby Ready1 on Sat Mar 27, 2021 4:24 pm

Sonbeam wrote:
Jericho wrote:I agree with Ready1 on this one. The Bible makes it clear not to take the mark and the consequences if you do.


Rev makes it clear what will happen to "anyone" who takes the mark. But first we must define how the word "anyone" is defined in the Greek language. Those of you here who are Greek scholars might check it out.

According to Strongs G5100, "anyone" may mean any "man."

And the children of God are no longer "men." The saints are no longer of the generation of man (Adam). They now belong to the generation of Christ.

Jericho wrote:We simply don't know what all the mark will consist of and what you must do to get it. Will you have to have to swear your allegiance to the antichrist to get it? Will it alter your DNA? With so many unknowns it is presumptions to state that if you take it's no big deal. It apparently corrupts the soul, and maybe even the physical. Besides that, If you are willing to compromise for the mark then what else would you be willing to compromise on? That is a very slippery slope.


I am definitely not advocating taking the mark Jericho.

What I'm saying because of the scriptures I quoted, and I believe what they say, is that taking the mark (either to buy food for our families or because we are forced to take it) will not impact the status of our salvation.


:blessyou:


It certainly seems to me that you make God a liar when you say that the penalty that He has plainly stated (flying an angel around the whole earth proclaiming that you get the full cup of His wrath, for taking the "mark") will not occur and is no penalty at all. I think you need to rethink your position. :grin:
Just observing.

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Re: The Mark

Postby Jericho on Sat Mar 27, 2021 4:33 pm

Sonbeam wrote:I am definitely not advocating taking the mark Jericho.

What I'm saying because of the scriptures I quoted, and I believe what they say, is that taking the mark (either to buy food for our families or because we are forced to take it) will not impact the status of our salvation.


I wouldn't want to count on that Sonbeam. It says the antiChrist causes all (some translations say force) to receive the mark. It doesn't appear to be optional, but just because someone is forced to take it doesn't mean they will be exempt from the consequences. If someone said you can't eat unless you worship the antiChrist and take his mark would you do it? Because that's what taking the mark means, it's affirming that you belong to him. We are commanded to serve no other gods, even if that means death.
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Re: The Mark

Postby slick on Sun Mar 28, 2021 4:27 am

Hello,
all the verses warning against the mark specially the angelic definitely warn against taking the MARK for any reason. the mark will be something that is intended for control and ferreting out Christians. maybe chip maybe tatoo but whatever it is WE ARE NOT TO TAKE IT AND WE WILL KNOW WHO IT IS INITIATING IT at that time.
" the great apostasy " will primarily occur due to the millions of "FALSE CHRISTIANS" running to what they think is safety by taking the mark...when in fact the run to their certain doom.
THE BATTLE RAGES TIL THE LION ROARS!!,
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Re: The Mark

Postby Sonbeam on Sun Mar 28, 2021 2:16 pm

Dear Saints,

I think we can continue going back and forth on this without arriving to an agreement either way
because our beliefs (both yours and mine) on “the mark” are based/rooted on something else.

This is a salvation issue. What we believe about how a person is saved determines how we interpret the Rev passage on the mark.

There are some of us (I am one of them) who believe God is the One who keeps us “saved” through the power of the Holy Spirit. The scriptures I quoted (and there are many others) attest to this Truth.

However from your posts, I gather that you believe it is up to you to keep yourself “saved.”
You fear that “doing” or not “doing” something, in this case taking/not taking the mark, will determine if you will spend eternity with God or not.

So there we are.

However, the good news is that once born again nothing "in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord." Rom 8

:blessyou:
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Re: The Mark

Postby slick on Mon Mar 29, 2021 3:43 am

Dear Saints,

There are some of us (I am one of them) who believe God is the One who keeps us “saved” through the power of the Holy Spirit. The scriptures I quoted (and there are many others) attest to this Truth.


I also Believe that its what the Bible teaches HOWEVER the BIBLE also teaches THAT NO ONE WHO IS TRULY SAVED WILL TAKE THE MARK. so the concept of what you are saying in the O.P is flawed.
TRUE CHRISTIANS CANT AND WONT TAKE IT PERIOD those that DO TAKE IT WERE FALSE CHRISTIANS TARES ETC...
I would really get into studying this marks and salvation GOD uses TYPES all through out the O.T I.E BLOOD ON DOORPOSTS, SERPENTS IN THE WILDERNESS, e.t.c THOSE THAT DISOBEYED DIED PERIOD.... the mark is the final test of who UNSAVED humans will align with... it wont be accidental, or by trickery you will know what your aligning with.
THE BATTLE RAGES TIL THE LION ROARS!!!
Clarence
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Re: The Mark

Postby WOODHENOT3 on Mon Mar 29, 2021 5:55 am

slick wrote:
Dear Saints,

There are some of us (I am one of them) who believe God is the One who keeps us “saved” through the power of the Holy Spirit. The scriptures I quoted (and there are many others) attest to this Truth.


I also Believe that its what the Bible teaches HOWEVER the BIBLE also teaches THAT NO ONE WHO IS TRULY SAVED WILL TAKE THE MARK. so the concept of what you are saying in the O.P is flawed.
TRUE CHRISTIANS CANT AND WONT TAKE IT PERIOD those that DO TAKE IT WERE FALSE CHRISTIANS TARES ETC...
I would really get into studying this marks and salvation GOD uses TYPES all through out the O.T I.E BLOOD ON DOORPOSTS, SERPENTS IN THE WILDERNESS, e.t.c THOSE THAT DISOBEYED DIED PERIOD.... the mark is the final test of who UNSAVED humans will align with... it wont be accidental, or by trickery you will know what your aligning with.
THE BATTLE RAGES TIL THE LION ROARS!!!
Clarence


:a3:

You take the MARK and you're condemned, there are no excuses for taking the MARK... it's the same way God told the Israelites not to worship the golden calf after He got them out of Egypt, the people disobeyed and they were condemned, jotted out of the book of LIFE...God meant what he said...

I agree with you Slick! Stand up for Jesus!
In Christ Always,
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Re: The Mark

Postby Spreading Salt on Tue Mar 30, 2021 6:53 am

The mark is attached to worship of the AC. Yes, it allows folks monetary access but the real significance is accepting to worship the AC. Turns souls to Satan and against God. Condemnation for sure. Don't be deceived. Don't take the mark. This life is a vapor but eternal separation from God is forever. There is no white-washing this truth. No mark.

I think end times novels have messed this up, stating some folks will be forced to take the mark. Due to the nature of a forced mark, they had to write an 'out' or a way for Christians to not be condemned. Nope. Wrong. Fiction.

No mark.

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Re: The Mark

Postby GodsStudent on Wed Mar 31, 2021 9:09 am

I love Sonbeam, and know your heart is coming from a good place on this (meaning your intent was to reassure that we should not "worry" about this mark because of this, that and the other scripture), but I must agree with the others who have pointed out that other scripture is very clear on the subject of the mark, giving who, what, when, where and why on the matter. As others have stated, we are not to take the mark, and scripture is very clear on that.
As, in the life of a born again believer, our spirits rule over our flesh (spirit over soul, or flesh), I pray that if this time comes during your lifetime, Sonbeam, the Holy Spirit will speak to your spirit, and you will listen, hear, and obey, as your spirit will rule over your flesh, and you will recognize that while your intentions were well meaning, your flesh drew a flawed conclusion in this matter. I trust and will pray for the same. I also appreciate that your comments were coming from a place meant to comfort (as is instructed in scripture, that we comfort one another), but we are also instructed to exhort and edify, which is what is happening here. Love you, sis!
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Re: The Mark

Postby Jay Ross on Wed Mar 31, 2021 2:52 pm

hello,

Has anyone considered what the mark of the beast is?

I would suggest that the mark of the beast is the desire of becoming like a demi-god in our own right.

In becoming like a demi-god, we effectively turn away from God. King David, it is recorded in scripture, did this three times during his reign as king, with the last time being instigated by Satan.

In Rev 20:4-6, we are told this: -

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.

John saw this concerning the beheaded souls who had not taken the mark of the beast at the very beginning of the Millennium Age who for the 1,000 years of the Millennium Age lived and reigned with Christ as priests of God and of Christ. How were they identified by the mark of the Beast, i.e. Satan's minion, they had not become candidates for the Second Death by turning away from God.

Now in Ezekiel 18, it tells us that even a person who is destined to die the second death, can redeem his soul if he is willing to repent of his sin(s) and keep the statutes of God because God has no desire to see any man die the second death.

After the 1,000 years that Satan, the beast, the false prophet and the kings of the earth are locked up after the Armageddon event in our near future, the first entities that come out of the bottomless pit are the kings of the earth who are described as being like scorpions, followed by the beasts and then the Beast, then the False Prophet, and finally Satan. It is at this time that people will be forced to take the Mark of the beast by turning away from God and they will become candidates for the Second death shortly after that time and follow the Beast, the False Prophet and Satan into the Lake of Fire.

When we sin, we take on the mark of the beast which shows that we are candidates for the Lake of fire at the time of final judgement after the Second advent of Christ. Fortunately, during this present time, up to the unlocking of the Bottomless pit to release for the little while period at the end of the Millennium Age, we will be able to repent of our committed sins, except for sins against the Holy Spirit, and be redeemed such that we will live and be given passage once more into our inheritance.

Our focus at this present time should be on maintaining our relationship with God/Christ, and when the Holy Spirit prompts us, we should repent of our sins and transgressions, and return to doing the will of the Father for this present time.

Shalom
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Re: The Mark

Postby Sonbeam on Wed Mar 31, 2021 4:04 pm

GodsStudent wrote:I love Sonbeam, and know your heart is coming from a good place on this (meaning your intent was to reassure that we should not "worry" about this mark because of this, that and the other scripture), but I must agree with the others who have pointed out that other scripture is very clear on the subject of the mark, giving who, what, when, where and why on the matter. . . . . . . .

I also appreciate that your comments were coming from a place meant to comfort (as is instructed in scripture, that we comfort one another), but we are also instructed to exhort and edify, which is what is happening here. Love you, sis!


Dear GS,

The sentiment is mutual Sister. Appreciate your nice way to disagree with me! :grin: Thank you for understanding my motives for starting this thread.

As I said before, how we view and interpret the Rev 14 passage on "the mark," whether it impacts our salvation or not if we take it, is based/rooted on our understanding of salvation.

Therefore, I quoted several scriptures that attest to the permanence of the salvation status of the children of God as guaranteed by the Holy Spirit.

Yet it baffles the mind that everyone who has commented on this topic has been willing to throw all those scriptures under the bus so to speak, and instead chooses to believe one passage that seems to imply that the warning on taking "the mark" is for the children of God also.

Let’s take a look at Rev 14:12 where the children of God are actually mentioned:

Rev 14:12 This means that God's holy people must endure persecution patiently, obeying His commands and maintaining their faith in Jesus.


Now here we see three exhortations/admonitions, not binding laws. And this is important to keep in mind.

1. Endure persecution patiently

2. Obey His commands

3 . Maintain their faith in Jesus.

We do not see a Do not take the mark admonition. But it really would not make a difference if given as you'll see.

Now to interpret Rev 14:12 above verse correctly, we have to first understand under what covenant is salvation offered/extended to all.

That covenant is the New Covenant (NT).

How many binding commands are given under the NT?

Only one. Believe in the One the He has sent. John 3:16, John 6:29

Therefore, God’s holy people, the children of God, born again believers, have already complied/met that one binding command. They have believed in the Son and the Holy Spirit has sealed that faith unto salvation for all eternity.

One thing I want to repeat again for all to understand is that I am not saying/advocating that anyone take
“the mark.”

But do remember Rom 8:1-2

1. Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus,
 2 because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and death.


:blessyou:

PS A binding law is one that has to be kept, if not condemnation/damnation by God will follow.
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Re: The Mark

Postby WOODHENOT3 on Thu Apr 01, 2021 11:51 am

Isaiah 558 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord.

9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.
In Christ Always,
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Re: The Mark

Postby WOODHENOT3 on Thu Apr 01, 2021 4:07 pm

In Matthew 4;
Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.

2 And when he had fasted forty days and forty nights, he was afterward an hungred.

3 And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.

4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Here it is, the stone is like the Mark of the Beast and Jesus refused to surrender to the devil.

Are you going to accept the Mark for a piece of bread?
In Christ Always,
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Re: The Mark

Postby GodsStudent on Mon Apr 05, 2021 8:40 am

I heard a pastor speak a few weeks back about the fact that we know who God is if we read His scriptures. We know His will, His thinking, His desires for us, and His position on most things. That really set me back on my heels, because the pastor's point was, all that is left after we read the word is our thoughts, deeds and actions, most literally in spite of.....
what we know to be true. If we know the Lord has a position on a thing, and we act, think or debate within or without on it, then it is us exerting our will and disobeying His. I have been thinking about this a lot over the past several weeks, because I am guilty of sometimes acting like I don't know what I know, and I've been questioning myself on this, in an effort to be more like the Father and less like me. There is no doubt in my mind that the Lord's position on the mark is laid out in scripture. He Wills that we do not take it. If I justify a reason why I can take it anyway, then that's me and my will, imo....nothing else....because the scriptures are clear enough on the matter of taking the mark. Scripture ties the mark with worship of satan, as this is his...the mark...it's his...and a way for those who take it to pledge their loyalty to satan. I would not take a mark that pledges loyalty to the enemy of our Lord and Savior....I just can't see why it would ever be acceptable to do that, for any reason.

In thinking about the mark of the beast, it's literally worship of the unholy trinity, which is a copycat of the holy trinity. The unholy trinity is described in Revelation 12 and 13, and is comprised of satan, the false prophet and antichrist. During this time, we have the beast that has 10 horns and 7 heads that rose out of the sea (Rev. 13: 1-2). We have the beast that rose out of the earth with 2 horns like a lamb and spoke like a dragon (Rev. 13: 11-18) and lastly we have the
second beast, which compels all people to worship the first beast.....A dragon and two beasts (one is the leaders, or political empires, one is satan and one is the false prophet...this is the composition of the unholy trinity.

The first beast is eloquent and performs signs and wonders so astonishing that even the elect may be deceived. The false prophet will point out the recovery of the deadly head wound and at, or to all the signs and wonders (miracles) of the dragon, which many human beings will wonder at and begin to worship. All of that will happen prior to the mark being introduced, which is going to be taken with great enthusiasm by many, many people, and those people are going to be furious with anyone who doesn't take that mark, as "we have all seen this sign, that sign and the other sign" and there should be no doubt this is our dear lord....So, it will be pressed upon everyone to love and adore this false trinity that is seen by all......and taking it's mark and pledging allegiance to it will be expected of all by many.....

So, the question remains....if the bible tells us this is what will be going on, this is what it is, and this is what the mark is all about....why would anyone whose name is written in the book of life consider taking such a mark and pledging their allegiance to this unholy trinity that is a copycat of the holy trinity?

Scripture tells us that during this time God will allow satan to make war with and overcome His Saints. That means he will be allowed to kill our bodies via various means during this time. We are to persevere through this, even unto death. Jeremiah 15:2 and Jeremiah 43:11 tell us that this will happen....the making war with and overcoming of the saints. We are to give no power to the death of our flesh during this specific period in time in which God is allowing satan to commit these crimes against the flesh of the elect. We are to remain firm in our faith and steady in light of the fact that this is the Will of God. Taking the mark in order to keep our creature comforts is unacceptable, because in doing so, we are literally pledging allegiance to the unholy trinity that is taking place on the earth during the time of the mark.

And if it seem evil unto you to serve the Lord, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord. Joshua 24:15

“No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or else he will be loyal to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon. Matthew 6:24

For taking the mark really does come down to resisting the loss of creature comforts and being put in a position where we will be hunted and killed for not serving the unholy trinity that we are being asked to serve. We must resolve, ahead of time, where we stand on this issue, and understand what the issue is about to begin with. If we choose to deny ourselves (our flesh), then we likely will be killed for not taking that mark.

I am not the most capable of writing these posts which make points and point out scripture, because I end up going all over the place and bringing in too many points. I've tried, here, to be succinct, but I think this is a really big deal, and it's important to get my response right. There are many scriptures revealing the mind of God on this topic, and from several different perspectives. This which I have focused on is but one, and as I research on the topic, so many other good ones come to mind. I certainly think it's important to keep an open mind and be willing to adjust our thinking when we see points being made to that end.
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Re: The Mark

Postby Resurrection Torchlight on Mon Apr 05, 2021 5:45 pm

Revelation 20:4
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of the testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark upon their forehead and upon their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.


Just thought I would add this verse, here we see that there are "saints" who were beheaded because they did not take the mark of the beast. They also didn't worship the beast or his image, and they testified of Christ and His word.

Note there is no mention of anyone who took the mark being resurrected to eternal life, but these here are raised to life who did not. Seems to me that this is a kind of proof text that goes with this one:

Revelation 14:9–11
9 And another angel, a third one, followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives a mark on his forehead or upon his hand,
10 he also will drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is mixed in full strength in the cup of His anger; and he will be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.
11 “And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; and they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”


It is pretty clear that taking the Mark is an act of worship,

Revelation 13:5–8
5 And there was given to him a mouth speaking arrogant words and blasphemies; and authority to act for forty-two months was given to him.
6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemies against God, to blaspheme His name and His tabernacle, that is, those who dwell in heaven.
7 And it was given to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them; and authority over every tribe and people and tongue and nation was given to him.
8 And all who dwell on the earth will worship him, everyone whose name has not been written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who has been slain.


If their name is not written in the book of life, they will worship the beast. The beast who makes war with the saints and overcomes them. In other words, the true followers of Christ during the great tribulation will be at war with the beast, and will die as a result.

Revelation 13:15–17
15 And there was given to him to give breath to the image of the beast, that the image of the beast might even speak and cause as many as do not worship the image of the beast to be killed.
16 And he causes all, the small and the great, and the rich and the poor, and the free men and the slaves, to be given a mark on their right hand, or on their forehead,
17 and he provides that no one should be able to buy or to sell, except the one who has the mark, either the name of the beast or the number of his name.


Those who follow Christ will not take the mark!

I would pose a question: if you had to take a mark today, let's call it a vaccine passport just to have a frame of reference that we can all relate to. That vaccine passport means that you have to get your vaccine and with it comes an identifying mark that you are branded with. This "brand" signifies that not only that you have received your vaccine and can now participate fully in society, but also that you pledge allegiance to a new world governing body, and agree with it's agenda of socialism and equity, that erases all distinctions. No religion, no gender, no race, no financial inequity, no individuality...etc...you get the picture...think Orwell's 1984. Would you get it today, right now if it meant you had to deny Christ and conform to the "new man" ideal?

That is in essence what the mark of the beast is. Not a "vaccine", that is just an analogy, but buying into an agenda, the Beast's agenda, pledging allegiance to him and not only to him but to Satan himself who gives him power and authority (Rev 13:4).

There is no way I could sign onto such a thing now or ever. Even if it means hunger, hardship and death. I could not trade worship of Christ for worship of Satan. It is anathema! If it ever comes down to it, I would have to trust God to see me through that difficulty, to supply my needs in the short term and to give me courage to stand firm in my faith to the end.

RT
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Re: The Mark

Postby WOODHENOT3 on Tue Apr 06, 2021 9:32 am

Resurrection Torchlight wrote:
Revelation 20:4
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of the testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark upon their forehead and upon their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.


Just thought I would add this verse, here we see that there are "saints" who were beheaded because they did not take the mark of the beast. They also didn't worship the beast or his image, and they testified of Christ and His word.

Note there is no mention of anyone who took the mark being resurrected to eternal life, but these here are raised to life who did not. Seems to me that this is a kind of proof text that goes with this one:

Revelation 14:9–11
9 And another angel, a third one, followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives a mark on his forehead or upon his hand,
10 he also will drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is mixed in full strength in the cup of His anger; and he will be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.
11 “And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; and they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”


It is pretty clear that taking the Mark is an act of worship,

Revelation 13:5–8
5 And there was given to him a mouth speaking arrogant words and blasphemies; and authority to act for forty-two months was given to him.
6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemies against God, to blaspheme His name and His tabernacle, that is, those who dwell in heaven.
7 And it was given to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them; and authority over every tribe and people and tongue and nation was given to him.
8 And all who dwell on the earth will worship him, everyone whose name has not been written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who has been slain.


If their name is not written in the book of life, they will worship the beast. The beast who makes war with the saints and overcomes them. In other words, the true followers of Christ during the great tribulation will be at war with the beast, and will die as a result.

Revelation 13:15–17
15 And there was given to him to give breath to the image of the beast, that the image of the beast might even speak and cause as many as do not worship the image of the beast to be killed.
16 And he causes all, the small and the great, and the rich and the poor, and the free men and the slaves, to be given a mark on their right hand, or on their forehead,
17 and he provides that no one should be able to buy or to sell, except the one who has the mark, either the name of the beast or the number of his name.


Those who follow Christ will not take the mark!

I would pose a question: if you had to take a mark today, let's call it a vaccine passport just to have a frame of reference that we can all relate to. That vaccine passport means that you have to get your vaccine and with it comes an identifying mark that you are branded with. This "brand" signifies that not only that you have received your vaccine and can now participate fully in society, but also that you pledge allegiance to a new world governing body, and agree with it's agenda of socialism and equity, that erases all distinctions. No religion, no gender, no race, no financial inequity, no individuality...etc...you get the picture...think Orwell's 1984. Would you get it today, right now if it meant you had to deny Christ and conform to the "new man" ideal?

That is in essence what the mark of the beast is. Not a "vaccine", that is just an analogy, but buying into an agenda, the Beast's agenda, pledging allegiance to him and not only to him but to Satan himself who gives him power and authority (Rev 13:4).

There is no way I could sign onto such a thing now or ever. Even if it means hunger, hardship and death. I could not trade worship of Christ for worship of Satan. It is anathema! If it ever comes down to it, I would have to trust God to see me through that difficulty, to supply my needs in the short term and to give me courage to stand firm in my faith to the end.

RT


:a3: :armor:
In Christ Always,
Woody
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Re: The Mark

Postby Spreading Salt on Tue Apr 06, 2021 4:47 pm

Yes to GS and RT! :a2:
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Re: The Mark

Postby mark s on Wed Apr 07, 2021 8:18 am

GodsStudent wrote:I heard a pastor speak a few weeks back about the fact that we know who God is if we read His scriptures. We know His will, His thinking, His desires for us, and His position on most things. That really set me back on my heels, because the pastor's point was, all that is left after we read the word is our thoughts, deeds and actions, most literally in spite of.....
what we know to be true. If we know the Lord has a position on a thing, and we act, think or debate within or without on it, then it is us exerting our will and disobeying His. I have been thinking about this a lot over the past several weeks, because I am guilty of sometimes acting like I don't know what I know, and I've been questioning myself on this, in an effort to be more like the Father and less like me.


What an excellent thought to muse upon.

Are we willing to "know what we know" and live accordingly? Can we just release ourselves fully into God's care to remake our mind itself?

Much love!
ειπεν αυτη ο ιησους εγω ειμι η αναστασις και η ζωη ο πιστευων εις εμε καν αποθανη ζησεται
. . . saying to her Jesus, I AM the resurrection and the life, the one believing into Me even dying shall live . . .
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Re: The Mark

Postby GodsStudent on Thu Apr 08, 2021 9:03 am

Rev 14:11 11 “And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; and they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”


This alone answers the question raised in the OP.....It's quite simple....and quite clear.....taking the mark of the beast determines that along with the sores and other ailments that will befall those who do, the smoke of the torment they get for taking that mark GOES UP FOREVER AND FOREVER and they have no rest day and night.....

No thank you. Kill my body...for there is no sting in that death, and to live is Christ, to die is gain, and even if by what will be violent means, once I die this death, I am dead to this life and entering the afterlife, forever....with Christ....bring it on, then!!!!
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