11 THE TABERNACLES OF his PALACE 12

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Re: 11 THE TABERNACLES OF his PALACE 12

Postby mark s on Thu Oct 15, 2020 8:38 am

shorttribber wrote:Hang in there mark, I'm just getting started :grin:

Earlier in this thread, I said the following...and I intend on doing so as I go along ok?

"It is essential that I define, explain, and expound on them now."

Personally I find hermaneutics that make these kinds of divisions to be troubling, to say the least.

9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.
10 Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.
11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.
12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.
13 But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days.

a thousand two hundred and ninety days = This one is days . . .

the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days = This one is years . . .

. . . but to see that, you have to understand who they are speaking of, which are different people.

I'm going to go with . . . It's going to be 1290 days, and keep waiting . . . to the 1335 days.

Much love!
ειπεν αυτη ο ιησους εγω ειμι η αναστασις και η ζωη ο πιστευων εις εμε καν αποθανη ζησεται
. . . saying to her Jesus, I AM the resurrection and the life, the one believing into Me even dying shall live . . .
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Re: 11 THE TABERNACLES OF his PALACE 12

Postby Mr Baldy on Thu Oct 15, 2020 9:13 am

WOODHENOT3 wrote:Mr. Baldy,Can you prove 1335 days has been fulfilled? There are hardly any details of the 1335 days unless I'm missing something...


Hi Woody -

Historically, I personally believe the 1,290 days and 1,335 days have been fulfilled - as recorded by Josephus. Here is an interesting read:

http://truebiblecode.com/understanding153.html

My personal believe is that the 1,290 days were fulfilled when I pointed to the AOD mentioned in Daniel 11:31. Otherwise this whole thing makes absolutely no sense.

Not sure how long you've been tracking this thread, but for one to add an additional 75 days to the 1,260 days given consistently provided is in error. It sort of reminds me of the discrepancies in the Pre-Tribulation Rapture Theory - which believes will be SNATCHED UP before the Tribulation Period; when Jesus tells us plainly we will be raised on the LAST DAY.

Just too may holes; the numbers are not adding up - therefore, I don't think Daniel 12:11-12 should factor into the final 3. 5 years.
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Re: 11 THE TABERNACLES OF his PALACE 12

Postby shorttribber on Thu Oct 15, 2020 12:02 pm

Mr Baldy wrote:WOODHENOT3 wrote:
Mr. Baldy,Can you prove 1335 days has been fulfilled? There are hardly any details of the 1335 days unless I'm missing something...


Hi Woody -

Historically, I personally believe the 1,290 days and 1,335 days have been fulfilled - as recorded by Josephus. Here is an interesting read:

http://truebiblecode.com/understanding153.html

My personal believe is that the 1,290 days were fulfilled when I pointed to the AOD mentioned in Daniel 11:31. Otherwise this whole thing makes absolutely no sense.


Hi Mr. B.
I will try to find another thread where i seem to remember that you have said the 1,290 and 1,335 were fulfilled after 70 AD, during the "Jewish Wars" AFTER 70 AD.
Which Time of fulfillment do you believe at this time? Have they been fulfilled 66-70 AD During the Jewish Wars, or During the Days described in Dan 11:31 under Antiochus? :dunno:


Adding in via edit

I found where you said what i thought you said earlier.
Here it is ......

" is there a possibility that you are trying to have these verses fix a certain End Time Theory? Historical Evidence appears to indicate that the 1,290 days and 1,335 days mentioned in Daniel 12:13 have already been fulfilled. (Jewish-Roman War "Revolt" 66–70 AD)"


Can you please clarify what it is you beleive now ....have you changed your possition or what actually?
The Wisest men have changed their Counsels and Resolves upon second thoughts, much more upon experience, and approaching evils not at first discovered. Rev. Herbert Croft, 1675

Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counsellors there is safety.

Find seven years of tribulation plainly stated in the Bible.
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Re: 11 THE TABERNACLES OF his PALACE 12

Postby shorttribber on Thu Oct 15, 2020 2:37 pm

mark s wrote:Personally I find hermeneutics that make these kinds of divisions to be troubling, to say the least.

And i find hermeneutics that can Only see scriptures from a too rigidly literal perspective troubling as well.
mark s wrote:a thousand two hundred and ninety days = This one is days . . .

the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days = This one is years . . .

. . . but to see that, you have to understand who they are speaking of, which are different people.

I'm going to go with . . . It's going to be 1290 days, and keep waiting . . . to the 1335 days.


Go ahead with that mark, it's your choice.

Maybe though you can follow my reasoning a little and just See what it is i'm presenting BEFORE Predetermining "I'm going with that".

Proverbs 18
12 Before destruction the heart of man is haughty, and before honour is humility.
13 He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him.
The Wisest men have changed their Counsels and Resolves upon second thoughts, much more upon experience, and approaching evils not at first discovered. Rev. Herbert Croft, 1675

Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counsellors there is safety.

Find seven years of tribulation plainly stated in the Bible.
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Re: 11 THE TABERNACLES OF his PALACE 12

Postby shorttribber on Thu Oct 15, 2020 3:41 pm

I would also like to point out, for all readers who are looking for specific time periods mentioned in scripture, Rev. 12.

Please notice the two periods mentioned in the following chapter...

Rev 12
1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.


Note the following please, not long after Christ asscended to the trone of God, about 40 years later the FIRST flight of the woman (66-70 AD under Titus) is here SEEN in vs 6 (colored blue).

The SECOND flight of the woman is mentioned in vs. 14 (colored purple) it will occur in the future during the Great Tribulation.

You can disagree, but i'm showing in scripture a very plain text that IMO does reflect the time of the First Flight in 66-70 AD.

We do not need to rely on Daniel 12 to see a written fulfilment of That 3.5 year Time Period.
The Wisest men have changed their Counsels and Resolves upon second thoughts, much more upon experience, and approaching evils not at first discovered. Rev. Herbert Croft, 1675

Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counsellors there is safety.

Find seven years of tribulation plainly stated in the Bible.
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Re: 11 THE TABERNACLES OF his PALACE 12

Postby shorttribber on Thu Oct 15, 2020 6:28 pm

We should look at Isaiah 61 to see if Literal Days or Literal Timeframes are consistently to be understood Literally.

1 The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;

2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn;

Are we to understand the "Year" Jesus mentions as a Literal Year, or as the Entire "Age of Grace" so to speak, that is nearly two thousand YEARS Long already?

Are we to believe that the Wrath of God or "Day" of Vengeance will last Exactly One "Day"?

Literalism needs to find a balance also with spiritual meaning. Jesus himself used the spiritual meaning in the perfect balance of course. We need to learn how and when to do the same, as his students.
The Wisest men have changed their Counsels and Resolves upon second thoughts, much more upon experience, and approaching evils not at first discovered. Rev. Herbert Croft, 1675

Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counsellors there is safety.

Find seven years of tribulation plainly stated in the Bible.
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Re: 11 THE TABERNACLES OF his PALACE 12

Postby WOODHENOT3 on Thu Oct 15, 2020 7:41 pm

shorttribber wrote:I would also like to point out, for all readers who are looking for specific time periods mentioned in scripture, Rev. 12.

Please notice the two periods mentioned in the following chapter...

Rev 12
1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.


Note the following please, not long after Christ asscended to the trone of God, about 40 years later the FIRST flight of the woman (66-70 AD under Titus) is here SEEN in vs 6 (colored blue).

The SECOND flight of the woman is mentioned in vs. 14 (colored purple) it will occur in the future during the Great Tribulation.

You can disagree, but i'm showing in scripture a very plain text that IMO does reflect the time of the First Flight in 66-70 AD.

We do not need to rely on Daniel 12 to see a written fulfilment of That 3.5 year Time Period.


That is so true! Amen Shorttribber!!! Good Insight!! God bless you!!
In Christ Always,
Woody
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Re: 11 THE TABERNACLES OF his PALACE 12

Postby shorttribber on Thu Oct 15, 2020 7:53 pm

Let me direct the readers' attention now to the 1,335 "days" spoken at the end of Daniel 12.

At first, i would briefly call your attention to the "Day for a Year" prophetic Language in prophecy in another place.
In Ezk. 4 5-6
4 Lie thou also upon thy left side, and lay the iniquity of the house of Israel upon it: according to the number of the days that thou shalt lie upon it thou shalt bear their iniquity.
5 For I have laid upon thee the years of their iniquity, according to the number of the days, three hundred and ninety days: so shalt thou bear the iniquity of the house of Israel.
6 And when thou hast accomplished them, lie again on thy right side, and thou shalt bear the iniquity of the house of Judah forty days: I have appointed thee each day for a year.

.....AND in Numbers 14:34
34 After the number of the days in which ye searched the land, even forty days, each day for a year, shall ye bear your iniquities, even forty years, and ye shall know my breach of promise.


Now i will ask the readers if they noticed the Common Denominators in these two examples.
Do you SEE them?

Iniquity, and a mention of 40 Days as pertaining to Judgement. 40 days is a common number associated with judgment throughout scripture.

Now, let's go back to when Christ himself made a Very Certain Prophetic Decree.

37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.
39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

Two things about this prophecy i want to mention.
1. He proclaims their destruction in 66-70 AD...........and how many years after his death? 40 years
2. He said, they will not See him again until they say blessed is he thus and thus. But they saw him the very next DAY didn't they? Or did Jesus mean something else when he said "SEE me"

Yes, he meant Something else didn't he?

When ye SEE the abomination that maketh desolate etc......

yes, kind of like that, similar meaning......but i digress.


back to the point.....

Judgment and Iniquity was the Common thread when the Day for a Year principle was used before in prophecy.

A prophecy that laid waste to Jerusalem was on its way about 40 years after he prophecied it!
And What did the Wasting of Jerusalem ALLOW to Happen or MAKE WAY For?
About 600+ years Later, The Tabernacles of the Spirit of antichrist's Palace was Planted THERE!

The 1,335 day for a year Judgement Commenced Aproximately in the year 689-691 IMO.

The prophecy of the 1,335 Speaks to the Fulfillment of the DAYS of Judgment against Unbelieving, Fleshly, Carnal, SO-CALLED, Israel!

Had there been no Desolation of Jerusalem beCAUSE of Unbeleif and Iniquity, There would be No Tabernacles of antichrist Planted there today...Right where they can be SEEN! Right in PLAIN SIGHT!

There is the Reason for this particular number of "Days" in prophecy fulfilled as YEARS. Because it Perfectly Fits the Prophetic Examples we already have in Ezekiel and Numbers.


to be continued.

Not done yet!
The Wisest men have changed their Counsels and Resolves upon second thoughts, much more upon experience, and approaching evils not at first discovered. Rev. Herbert Croft, 1675

Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counsellors there is safety.

Find seven years of tribulation plainly stated in the Bible.
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Re: 11 THE TABERNACLES OF his PALACE 12

Postby Mr Baldy on Fri Oct 16, 2020 3:08 am

shorttribber wrote:
Mr Baldy wrote:WOODHENOT3 wrote:
Mr. Baldy,Can you prove 1335 days has been fulfilled? There are hardly any details of the 1335 days unless I'm missing something...


Hi Woody -

Historically, I personally believe the 1,290 days and 1,335 days have been fulfilled - as recorded by Josephus. Here is an interesting read:

http://truebiblecode.com/understanding153.html

My personal believe is that the 1,290 days were fulfilled when I pointed to the AOD mentioned in Daniel 11:31. Otherwise this whole thing makes absolutely no sense.


Hi Mr. B.
I will try to find another thread where i seem to remember that you have said the 1,290 and 1,335 were fulfilled after 70 AD, during the "Jewish Wars" AFTER 70 AD.
Which Time of fulfillment do you believe at this time? Have they been fulfilled 66-70 AD During the Jewish Wars, or During the Days described in Dan 11:31 under Antiochus? :dunno:


Adding in via edit

I found where you said what i thought you said earlier.
Here it is ......

" is there a possibility that you are trying to have these verses fix a certain End Time Theory? Historical Evidence appears to indicate that the 1,290 days and 1,335 days mentioned in Daniel 12:13 have already been fulfilled. (Jewish-Roman War "Revolt" 66–70 AD)"


Can you please clarify what it is you beleive now ....have you changed your possition or what actually?


Hi Shorty -

Thanks for pointing this out. To answer your question, NO my position has not changed one iota. Of course we know Titus was the culprit in the Jewish-Roman War. This does not negate the fact that of the number of days given in Daniel 12:11-12 was not referring to the AOD committed in Daniel 11:31. As you know, prophecy often has dual or multiple meanings.

*You may find the link I posted very informative as well.
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Re: 11 THE TABERNACLES OF his PALACE 12

Postby mark s on Fri Oct 16, 2020 7:47 am

shorttribber wrote:
Proverbs 18
12 Before destruction the heart of man is haughty, and before honour is humility.


There's no call for that kind of thing.

I've been discussing this stuff with you for years.

Much love!
ειπεν αυτη ο ιησους εγω ειμι η αναστασις και η ζωη ο πιστευων εις εμε καν αποθανη ζησεται
. . . saying to her Jesus, I AM the resurrection and the life, the one believing into Me even dying shall live . . .
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Re: 11 THE TABERNACLES OF his PALACE 12

Postby mark s on Fri Oct 16, 2020 8:05 am

shorttribber wrote:And i find hermeneutics that can Only see scriptures from a too rigidly literal perspective troubling as well.


Me too! So in this we are agreed.

Much love!
ειπεν αυτη ο ιησους εγω ειμι η αναστασις και η ζωη ο πιστευων εις εμε καν αποθανη ζησεται
. . . saying to her Jesus, I AM the resurrection and the life, the one believing into Me even dying shall live . . .
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Re: 11 THE TABERNACLES OF his PALACE 12

Postby shorttribber on Fri Oct 16, 2020 8:38 am

mark s wrote:
shorttribber wrote:
Proverbs 18
12 Before destruction the heart of man is haughty, and before honour is humility.


There's no call for that kind of thing.

I've been discussing this stuff with you for years.

Much love!

I only quoted the scripture that advises against answering a matter before it is first heard mark.
My goal was not to insult or offend you, but to remind you how the word of God instructs us, and helps us to learn.

My apologies to your offense taken.
:hugs:
The Wisest men have changed their Counsels and Resolves upon second thoughts, much more upon experience, and approaching evils not at first discovered. Rev. Herbert Croft, 1675

Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counsellors there is safety.

Find seven years of tribulation plainly stated in the Bible.
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Re: 11 THE TABERNACLES OF his PALACE 12

Postby shorttribber on Fri Oct 16, 2020 8:44 am

mark s wrote:
shorttribber wrote:And i find hermeneutics that can Only see scriptures from a too rigidly literal perspective troubling as well.


Me too! So in this we are agreed.

Much love!

Ok, then try to be maybe a bit less rigid on the word "Day", when it is used in scripture.
Where i have shown that the word "Day" in one verse, and the word "Day" in the next verse MAY have a different meaning, based on the Possibility that God did so to "Seal up the vision".

Especially when i have given Clear Examples of scripture regarding a Time of Judgment where the Day for a Year principle was used.
The Wisest men have changed their Counsels and Resolves upon second thoughts, much more upon experience, and approaching evils not at first discovered. Rev. Herbert Croft, 1675

Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counsellors there is safety.

Find seven years of tribulation plainly stated in the Bible.
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Re: 11 THE TABERNACLES OF his PALACE 12

Postby shorttribber on Fri Oct 16, 2020 9:12 am

Mr Baldy wrote:
shorttribber wrote:
Mr Baldy wrote:WOODHENOT3 wrote:
Mr. Baldy,Can you prove 1335 days has been fulfilled? There are hardly any details of the 1335 days unless I'm missing something...


Hi Woody -

Historically, I personally believe the 1,290 days and 1,335 days have been fulfilled - as recorded by Josephus. Here is an interesting read:

http://truebiblecode.com/understanding153.html

My personal believe is that the 1,290 days were fulfilled when I pointed to the AOD mentioned in Daniel 11:31. Otherwise this whole thing makes absolutely no sense.


Hi Mr. B.
I will try to find another thread where i seem to remember that you have said the 1,290 and 1,335 were fulfilled after 70 AD, during the "Jewish Wars" AFTER 70 AD.
Which Time of fulfillment do you believe at this time? Have they been fulfilled 66-70 AD During the Jewish Wars, or During the Days described in Dan 11:31 under Antiochus? :dunno:


Adding in via edit

I found where you said what i thought you said earlier.
Here it is ......

" is there a possibility that you are trying to have these verses fix a certain End Time Theory? Historical Evidence appears to indicate that the 1,290 days and 1,335 days mentioned in Daniel 12:13 have already been fulfilled. (Jewish-Roman War "Revolt" 66–70 AD)"


Can you please clarify what it is you beleive now ....have you changed your possition or what actually?


Hi Shorty -

Thanks for pointing this out. To answer your question, NO my position has not changed one iota. Of course we know Titus was the culprit in the Jewish-Roman War. This does not negate the fact that of the number of days given in Daniel 12:11-12 was not referring to the AOD committed in Daniel 11:31. As you know, prophecy often has dual or multiple meanings.

*You may find the link I posted very informative as well.


Ok Mr. B., I found another place where you said you agreed with Keith that the Simon Bar Kokhba war in 132AD ALSO fulfilled Daniel 12:13.
So now we have, According to your own words, THREE meanings or multiple fulfillments to the same text.
The texts at the end of Daniel 12 in question refer to Three events in history according to your own words.
First meaning according to you is that it Refers Back to Daniel 11:31
Second meaning according to you is that it Refers to Titus actions in 66-70 AD
Third meaning according to you is that it Refers to the Jewish/Roman War of Simon Bar Kokhba in 132 AD.

Based on the idea that there have been Multiple fulfillments either as Types, Shadows, and or Historic fulfilments, Why Not a FINAL ONE?

Why would you find it impossible for there to Be A FINAL and Ultimate, Coup De Gras, or Grand Finally KIND of fulfillment at the END of DAYS...AS the TEXT PLAINLY SAYS regarding the End of Days.

Is there any GOOD reason you can offer that it COULD NOT BE SO?
The Wisest men have changed their Counsels and Resolves upon second thoughts, much more upon experience, and approaching evils not at first discovered. Rev. Herbert Croft, 1675

Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counsellors there is safety.

Find seven years of tribulation plainly stated in the Bible.
shorttribber
 
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Re: 11 THE TABERNACLES OF his PALACE 12

Postby Mr Baldy on Fri Oct 16, 2020 9:42 am

shorttribber wrote:Based on the idea that there have been Multiple fulfillments either as Types, Shadows, and or Historic fulfilments, Why Not a FINAL ONE?


Why are you limiting prophecy :humm:

shorttribber wrote:Why would you find it impossible for there to Be A FINAL and Ultimate, Coup De Gras, or Grand Finally KIND of fulfillment at the END of DAYS...AS the TEXT PLAINLY SAYS regarding the End of Days.


The Scripture is not the problem Shorty - it's the private interpretation you have of it thereof.

shorttribber wrote:Is there any GOOD reason you can offer that it COULD NOT BE SO?


I've given you a very GOOD reason why it's not so - over, and over, and over again. It's JUST NOT ADDING UP.

I wrote this once before, so I'll give it to you again:

Mr Baldy wrote:If you'll notice - AFTER Jesus mentions the AOD occurring - and the fleeing of those in Judea to the mountains A Great Tribulation is mentioned. A specific amount of time is NEVER given by Jesus. Furthermore, to incorporate Daniel 12:11-12 into this equation as it relates to a specific time is in error. Additionally, to use your analogy on "those days" being the Great Tribulation - Scripture goes on to say "those days" will be cut short. So, my question to you is how can the 1,260 days given repeatedly in Scripture be both "cut short" and total 1,290 days & 1,335 days as mentioned in Daniel 12:11-12 respectively. You see Shorty - it's JUST NOT ADDING UP


In closing -

Shorty, it's you who have said the Great Tribulation lasts 1,290 days - and have provided NO Scriptural support. It's you said the Body of Christ will suffer persecution 1,260 days - further saying those same days are "cut short"; and finally you said God's Wrath is 30 days -having NO Scriptural support. Now do you see the holes in your theory? Too many discrepancies that cannot be supported with Scripture.

So instead of attempting to attack the Historical evidence I've placed as a part of this debate - why don't you explain how Daniel 12:11-12 - works :humm:

Truth of the matter is you CAN'T.

I've provided multiple passages of Scripture that clearly point consistently to 3.5 years. Nothing more, and nothing less. I will concede and say that there is a possibility that these same remaining 1,260 days could fulfill the later half of the 70 weeks. However, we are not in the "midst" of the week; nor do the 1,290 or 1,335 days apply.

Just one Final 3.5 year period remains - and I've proven that with Scripture.
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Re: 11 THE TABERNACLES OF his PALACE 12

Postby mark s on Fri Oct 16, 2020 10:27 am

shorttribber wrote:
mark s wrote:
shorttribber wrote:And i find hermeneutics that can Only see scriptures from a too rigidly literal perspective troubling as well.


Me too! So in this we are agreed.

Much love!

Ok, then try to be maybe a bit less rigid on the word "Day", when it is used in scripture.
Where i have shown that the word "Day" in one verse, and the word "Day" in the next verse MAY have a different meaning, based on the Possibility that God did so to "Seal up the vision".

Especially when i have given Clear Examples of scripture regarding a Time of Judgment where the Day for a Year principle was used.


Rigid . . . not rigid . . . I don't see how these terms fit any serious Bible reader.

But with this reasoning, day could be 24 hours, 365 days, 1000 years, or something else entirely.

And you bring up a good point. God told Daniel in response to his desire to understand, Seal it up.

So just how certain should we be on any particular understanding of the text?

Only I've come to see, over the years, that as I understand the Bible more according to what it directly states, in the normal use of language, it seems to me the more accurate the understanding. Where I've discovered inconsistencies in my views, it's always led me to a more literal interpretation of the words. I'm not saying God has feathers of course.

I've also come to see how Biblical truths, if correctly understood, tend to be able to be expressed in simple statements, pointing directly to passages which state those truths.

Much love!
ειπεν αυτη ο ιησους εγω ειμι η αναστασις και η ζωη ο πιστευων εις εμε καν αποθανη ζησεται
. . . saying to her Jesus, I AM the resurrection and the life, the one believing into Me even dying shall live . . .
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Re: 11 THE TABERNACLES OF his PALACE 12

Postby shorttribber on Fri Oct 16, 2020 2:17 pm

Mr. B.,
I honestly wonder sometimes if you truly read what i actually write :dunno:

for example, i said the following...
shorttribber wrote:Based on the idea that there have been Multiple fulfillments either as Types, Shadows, and or Historic fulfilments, Why Not a FINAL ONE?
Why would you find it impossible for there to Be A FINAL and Ultimate, Coup De Gras, or Grand Finally KIND of fulfillment at the END of DAYS...AS the TEXT PLAINLY SAYS regarding the End of Days.


And you answered....
Mr Baldy wrote:Why are you limiting prophecy


What on earth are you answering that way for? I AM the One TRYING/Attempting to TAKE THE LIMITS OFF that YOU are placing on the prophecyies at the end of Daniel 12.

Mr Baldy wrote:shorttribber wrote:
Why would you find it impossible for there to Be A FINAL and Ultimate, Coup De Gras, or Grand Finally KIND of fulfillment at the END of DAYS...AS the TEXT PLAINLY SAYS regarding the End of Days.

Mr B wrote:
The Scripture is not the problem Shorty - it's the private interpretation you have of it thereof.


My private interpretation? We all have private interpretations of scripture Mr. B.?
Maybe mine is right and maybe it isn't. We all have them though.


Mr Baldy wrote: "I've given you a very GOOD reason why it's not so - over, and over, and over again. It's JUST NOT ADDING UP.
I wrote this once before, so I'll give it to you again:
Mr Baldy wrote:
If you'll notice - AFTER Jesus mentions the AOD occurring - and the fleeing of those in Judea to the mountains A Great Tribulation is mentioned. A specific amount of time is NEVER given by Jesus. Furthermore, to incorporate Daniel 12:11-12 into this equation as it relates to a specific time is in error. Additionally, to use your analogy on "those days" being the Great Tribulation - Scripture goes on to say "those days" will be cut short. So, my question to you is how can the 1,260 days given repeatedly in Scripture be both "cut short" and total 1,290 days & 1,335 days as mentioned in Daniel 12:11-12 respectively. You see Shorty - it's JUST NOT ADDING UP."

ST writes:...
Then you add again these following words...
Quoting M. B from just the last post

" It's you said the Body of Christ will suffer persecution 1,260 days - further saying those same days are "cut short"; "


Shorttribber writes:
Now, this is another time that you, not only Once, but over and over again, HAVE SAID that i said that the persecution of the SAINTS which Lasts 1,260 days/3.5 years/42 months, is SHORTENED!
I have NEVER SAID THAT EVER Mr. B.! Not One Time! PLEASE do not SAY AGAIN That i Have said so, Please.


Mr Baldy wrote:Shorty, it's you who have said the Great Tribulation lasts 1,290 days - and have provided NO Scriptural support.

Yes it does have Very Clear Scriptural Support! It's just that You Can Not SEE it!

You can can Disagree that it does, but it definatly does have support, regardless of your belief to the contrary!

Mr Baldy wrote:and finally you said God's Wrath is 30 days -having NO Scriptural support.


That has support also, and i will be adding more to this thread to prove it too.

Mr Baldy wrote:Now do you see the holes in your theory?

No, because there are none that YOU can prove, even as hard as you try.

That's the reason for the debate section...you try, i try, and we continue to love and respect each other through it all!

:hugs:

Mr Baldy wrote:So instead of attempting to attack the Historical evidence I've placed as a part of this debate

How did i attack the historic evidence? I haven't, i admit those dates and time occured. Why do you think i've attacked the evidence in history?
I have said they are Fulfillment Layers, Real fulfilled Layers of prophecy!

Mr Baldy wrote:why don't you explain how Daniel 12:11-12 - works

I'm trying to do that for you Mr. B.
I honestly am.
Mr Baldy wrote:I will concede and say that there is a possibility that these same remaining 1,260 days could fulfill the later half of the 70 weeks.

Ok, good.
then how is the other Impossible? As you said the following...
Mr Baldy wrote:However, we are not in the "midst" of the week


Please explain to me and all readers How exactly your First admittion as to a Possible 2nd half of the 70th week yet remaining, and in the same breath say we are not somehow Between the First half and the Second half Currently.

Mr Baldy wrote:Just one Final 3.5 year period remains - and I've proven that with Scripture.


You have proven no such thing.

:duel: :hugs: :duel:
Last edited by shorttribber on Fri Oct 16, 2020 2:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 11 THE TABERNACLES OF his PALACE 12

Postby Jay Ross on Fri Oct 16, 2020 2:28 pm

shorttribber wrote:I would also like to point out, for all readers who are looking for specific time periods mentioned in scripture, Rev. 12.

Rev 12
1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth,
he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
ST I have used your translation of Rev 12. (Note that I have highlighted portion in red pertinent to the questions I have asked below.)


ST when does the war in heaven end when Satan is cast out?

When are we told that Israel will tell God that they no longer want Satan to be their master?

When does Christ become Israel's Salvation?

When does God establish His Ever Lasting Kingdom on the Earth?

When does Satan's wrath initially against Israel and then the Remanent Saints, begin in time?

Have we during our lifetime witnessed any signs that herald the pending Judgement of the Kings of the earth At Armageddon? (I have asked this question of you previously, and the answer you provided was a possible sign that your believed would happen in our near future, but it was not a sign that you have seen during your lifetime up and including this present time in our lives.)

ST you also have made reference to Isaiah 61 1-2 which Christs read when He began His ministry to Israel.

If we read on in chapter 61, What is the specific time period mention for the repairs that are going to be made?

And what are we told in this passage that the nation of Israel will become?

Isaiah 61:1-7

61:
1 "The Spirit of the Lord God is upon Me,
Because the Lord has anointed Me
To preach good tidings to the poor;
He has sent Me to heal the brokenhearted,
To proclaim liberty to the captives,
And the opening of the prison to those who are bound;
2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord,
And the day of vengeance of our God;
To comfort all who mourn,
3 To console those who mourn in Zion,
To give them beauty for ashes,
The oil of joy for mourning,
The garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness;
That they may be called trees of righteousness,
The planting of the Lord, that He may be glorified."

4 And they shall rebuild the old ruins,
They shall raise up the former desolations,
And they shall repair the ruined cities,
The desolations of many generations.
5 Strangers shall stand and feed your flocks,
And the sons of the foreigner
Shall be your plowmen and your vinedressers.
6 But you shall be named the priests of the Lord,
They shall call you the servants of our God.
You shall eat the riches of the Gentiles,
And in their glory you shall boast.
7 Instead of your shame you shall have double honor,
And instead of confusion they shall rejoice in their portion.
Therefore in their land they shall possess double;
Everlasting joy shall be theirs.


ST How long is the visitation of the iniquities of the fathers going to last on their children and their children's children?

Are we presently seeing the war in heaven spilling over onto the face of the earth?

Shalom
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Re: 11 THE TABERNACLES OF his PALACE 12

Postby shorttribber on Fri Oct 16, 2020 2:48 pm

Jay Ross wrote:ST when does the war in heaven end when Satan is cast out?

It could happen any day, literaly as i'm typing this.
The war in heaven IMO began the in 70 AD Immediatly after Jerusalem was Laid Desolate.
Jay Ross wrote:When are we told that Israel will tell God that they no longer want Satan to be their master?

Dont know what you mean or the scripture that implys it.
Jay Ross wrote:When does Christ become Israel's Salvation?

Already happened, they just dont accept it.
Jay Ross wrote:When does God establish His Ever Lasting Kingdom on the Earth?

On the First Day of the Great Tribulation, the Loser will be Trespassing in God's Kingdom, and that's why he will know his time is Short, and his Days are Numbered! Specificly 1,290 of them!
Jay Ross wrote:When does Satan's wrath initially against Israel and then the Remanent Saints, begin in time?

On the First Day of the Great Tribultion.
Jay Ross wrote:Have we during our lifetime witnessed any signs that herald the pending Judgement of the Kings of the earth At Armageddon? (I have asked this question of you previously, and the answer you provided was a possible sign that your believed would happen in our near future, but it was not a sign that you have seen during your lifetime up and including this present time in our lives.)

I think the signs we see on all fronts today, namely politcaly is e clear sign that Armegedon is NOT MANY YEARS AWAY.
Jay Ross wrote:ST you also have made reference to Isaiah 61 1-2 which Christs read when He began His ministry to Israel.

If we read on in chapter 61, What is the specific time period mention for the repairs that are going to be made?

And what are we told in this passage that the nation of Israel will become?

We have a differing oppinion as to the usage of the Name and people Israel.
I do not believe in Replacement theology, but rather Inclusion theology. That simply means that there is ONE "People and Household of Faith that are God's People" Neither Jew Nor Gentile.

so i can't answer your question as you would like.
The Wisest men have changed their Counsels and Resolves upon second thoughts, much more upon experience, and approaching evils not at first discovered. Rev. Herbert Croft, 1675

Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counsellors there is safety.

Find seven years of tribulation plainly stated in the Bible.
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Re: 11 THE TABERNACLES OF his PALACE 12

Postby shorttribber on Fri Oct 16, 2020 3:07 pm

mark s wrote:Rigid . . . not rigid . . . I don't see how these terms fit any serious Bible reader.

I can humbly and honestly say that I AM a "Serious Bible Reader" mark.

I think the term rigid or not rigid is a fine way to say it, but you are at every liberty to disagree.

You know i still love you much though....even if you're too rigid :mrgreen:

:hugs:

mark s wrote:But with this reasoning, day could be 24 hours, 365 days, 1000 years, or something else entirely.

Possibly, yes, depending HEAVILY on the context of course.
mark s wrote:And you bring up a good point. God told Daniel in response to his desire to understand, Seal it up.

So just how certain should we be on any particular understanding of the text?


Only after it Finaly Happens can we be Certain...Only at the End of "The Days" will we know Absolutley....MAYBE.
I said MAYBE Because i beleive that a time is comming during the Great Tribulation that we Will begin to Understand Bible Prophecy as we never Dreamed Before...in Other words...
4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.
AND...
9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.
10 Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.
The Wisest men have changed their Counsels and Resolves upon second thoughts, much more upon experience, and approaching evils not at first discovered. Rev. Herbert Croft, 1675

Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counsellors there is safety.

Find seven years of tribulation plainly stated in the Bible.
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Re: 11 THE TABERNACLES OF his PALACE 12

Postby mark s on Fri Oct 16, 2020 3:42 pm

shorttribber wrote:
I think the term rigid or not rigid is a fine way to say it, but you are at every liberty to disagree.



It is "Labeling" someone.

"You disagree because you are too rigid in your interpretation."

That's not accurate. So yes I do disagree.

Much love!
ειπεν αυτη ο ιησους εγω ειμι η αναστασις και η ζωη ο πιστευων εις εμε καν αποθανη ζησεται
. . . saying to her Jesus, I AM the resurrection and the life, the one believing into Me even dying shall live . . .
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Re: 11 THE TABERNACLES OF his PALACE 12

Postby WOODHENOT3 on Fri Oct 16, 2020 3:47 pm

:banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana:

:a3: Shorttribber!!!! Thank you for the time explaining all the details.... I see it very clear!!

:hugs:
In Christ Always,
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Re: 11 THE TABERNACLES OF his PALACE 12

Postby shorttribber on Fri Oct 16, 2020 4:53 pm

Sorry mark, I was just kid'n :hugs:
The Wisest men have changed their Counsels and Resolves upon second thoughts, much more upon experience, and approaching evils not at first discovered. Rev. Herbert Croft, 1675

Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counsellors there is safety.

Find seven years of tribulation plainly stated in the Bible.
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Re: 11 THE TABERNACLES OF his PALACE 12

Postby Jay Ross on Sat Oct 17, 2020 12:52 am

shorttribber wrote:
Jay Ross wrote:ST when does the war in heaven end when Satan is cast out?

It could happen any day, literaly as i'm typing this.
The war in heaven IMO began the in 70 AD Immediatly after Jerusalem was Laid Desolate.


ST I have no problems considering that the war in heaven between Satan and his hosts and God and His Hosts around the time that Jerusalem was made desolate.
But have you ever considered the implications of Isaiah 24:21-22. Does it not tell us when the war in heaven is over?

shorttribber wrote:
Jay Ross wrote:When are we told that Israel will tell God that they no longer want Satan to be their master?

Don't know what you mean or the scripture that implys it.


Have you considered the Parable of the Minas in Luke 19:11-13 as providing one of the clues as to when Israel begins to repent.

shorttribber wrote:
Jay Ross wrote:When does Christ become Israel's Salvation?

Already happened, they just don't accept it.


I agree that God's Salvation, within the bounds of the new process to obtain that Salvation, has been available since Christ died on the Cross for any Israelite who choses to repent, but God's prophetic word also tells us that they must endure the visitation of their idolatrous iniquities for a period of two ages, before God will respond to their cries.

In Ezekiel 34, God tells us that He will plant Israel in the fertile fields and teach them on the Religion/Mountain of Israel, i.e. the Believe in His Son, Christ, and then in Ezekiel 36, God speaks of Israel's Salvation. As such this is an imminent future event as Paul hints at in Romans 11:25-26.

shorttribber wrote:
Jay Ross wrote:When does God establish His Ever Lasting Kingdom on the Earth?

On the First Day of the Great Tribulation, the Loser will be Trespassing in God's Kingdom, and that's why he will know his time is Short, and his Days are Numbered! Specifically 1,290 of them!


When is the time of the Great Tribulation? Is that not a distant event over 1,000 years into the future, after the Bottomless Pit is unlocked?[/quote]

I refer you back to Isaiah 24:21-22, as to when the War in Heaven will end and Satan and his hosts will be imprisoned for many day, i.e. 1,000 years, to await the time of their punishment. The reference in Rev 12 to Satan's time being short is because when he is kicked out of Heaven he is immediately put into the Bottomless pit and when that is unlock there is only a little while period before the end of the Age of the Ages. I also suggest that we are told in Daniel 2:44 that it is in the time of these kings that God will establish His everlasting Kingdom.

shorttribber wrote:
Jay Ross wrote:When does Satan's wrath initially against Israel and then the Remanent Saints, begin in time?

On the First Day of the Great Tribultion.


Yes your answer is correct in one sense, but it indicates to me that you are unsure of the answer for this question.

The Great tribulation begins after the Bottomless pit is unlocked and the first tribulation brought against the people of the earth is brought by the scorpions who rise up out of the Pit, acting at the direction of their king still in the Abyss at that stage.

shorttribber wrote:
Jay Ross wrote:Have we during our lifetime witnessed any signs that herald the pending Judgement of the Kings of the earth At Armageddon? (I have asked this question of you previously, and the answer you provided was a possible sign that your believed would happen in our near future, but it was not a sign that you have seen during your lifetime up and including this present time in our lives.)


I think the signs we see on all fronts today, namely politically is a clear sign that Armageddon is NOT MANY YEARS AWAY.


So you have not considered that Revelation 16:12-16 tells us the predominate sign, that we have seen in our recent past, i.e. like under 20 years ago, that will herald the beginning of the drawing of the kings of the earth to Armageddon, probably 40 years before the kings of the earth begin to assemble at Armageddon..

shorttribber wrote:
Jay Ross wrote:ST you also have made reference to Isaiah 61 1-2 which Christs read when He began His ministry to Israel.

If we read on in chapter 61, What is the specific time period mention for the repairs that are going to be made?

And what are we told in this passage that the nation of Israel will become?

We have a differing opinion as to the usage of the Name and people Israel.
I do not believe in Replacement theology, but rather Inclusion theology. That simply means that there is ONE "People and Household of Faith that are God's People" Neither Jew Nor Gentile.

so I can't answer your question as you would like.


But in the OT End Times prophecies, Gentiles will be drawn to the Israelite Priests to show them the way to a relationship with God. Isa 61 as well as Ezek tells us that this will be the case.

You wrote this to Marks: -
shorttribber wrote:<snip>
I can humbly and honestly say that I AM a "Serious Bible Reader" mark.
<snip>



I too am a serious bible reader ST, but their seems to be a big difference in our understanding.

It is a good thing that we only have around one year or is that a day . . . he, he, to see who will be shown to be right.

Shalom
Last edited by Jay Ross on Sat Oct 17, 2020 1:56 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: 11 THE TABERNACLES OF his PALACE 12

Postby shorttribber on Sat Oct 17, 2020 9:11 am

Jay Ross wrote:ST I have no problems considering that the war in heaven between Satan and his hosts and God and His Hosts around the time that Jerusalem was made desolate.
But have you ever considered the implications of Isaiah 24:21-22. Does it not tell us when the war in heaven is over?

I do think Is 24 does describe those periods, including vs21-22, it does sound correct for the ending of that war, and i thank you for that contribution Jay.
Jay Ross wrote:Have you considered the Parable of the Minas in Luke 19:11-13 as providing one of the clues as to when Israel begins to repent.

I have considered it, and i think of it as a possible correct understanding of it...i just can't be certain. i do think you've made some good reasons to consider it as you have suggested.
Jay Ross wrote:In Ezekiel 34, God tells us that He will plant Israel in the fertile fields and teach them on the Religion/Mountain of Israel, i.e. the Believe in His Son, Christ, and then in Ezekiel 36, God speaks of Israel's Salvation. As such this is an imminent future event as Paul hints at in Romans 11:25-26.

I will study this later today
Jay Ross wrote:I too am a serious bible reader ST, but their seems to be a big difference in our understanding.

It is a good thing that we only have around one year or is that a day . . . he, he, to see who will be shown to be right.

On this we agree completely.

:hugs: Shalom
The Wisest men have changed their Counsels and Resolves upon second thoughts, much more upon experience, and approaching evils not at first discovered. Rev. Herbert Croft, 1675

Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counsellors there is safety.

Find seven years of tribulation plainly stated in the Bible.
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Re: 11 THE TABERNACLES OF his PALACE 12

Postby Jay Ross on Sat Oct 17, 2020 2:06 pm

ST I have gone back and taken out one to many inserted sq. bracketed "quote = Shorttribber" commands, where I had doubled up on that command, while I was responding to your post.

What I had posted as comments to what you had said became lost in a bigger quote than I intended.

You may like to comment of the bits of my previous post that become effectively hidden.

I am sorry for my miss communications as I did not go and proof read what I had written after I had posted. My bad.

Shalom
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Re: 11 THE TABERNACLES OF his PALACE 12

Postby Mr Baldy on Sat Oct 17, 2020 2:55 pm

shorttribber wrote:Please explain to me and all readers How exactly your First admittion as to a Possible 2nd half of the 70th week yet remaining, and in the same breath say we are not somehow Between the First half and the Second half Currently.


Simple explanation - just because something hasn't been completely finished doesn't necessarily mean you're in the middle of it. Just means it can resume again or pick up at a later time. And I'm referring to the 70 weeks as a whole, and not any interim unknown time in-between .

Shorty - at this point I will bow out of your discussion until you can prove the "red-flag" raising points you continue to make which have no Scriptural foundation:

1) There is absolutely no Scriptural evidence for a 1,290 Great Tribulation as you mention. Just not there
2) You cannot seem to prove Daniel 12:11-12 in your End Time Paradigm - as the numbers just don't add up
3) You cannot seem to prove a 30 Day Wrath of God - where you are getting this from, I have no idea.

shorttribber wrote:Shorttribber writes: Now, this is another time that you, not only Once, but over and over again, HAVE SAID that i said that the persecution of the SAINTS which Lasts 1,260 days/3.5 years/42 months, is SHORTENED!I have NEVER SAID THAT EVER Mr. B.! Not One Time! PLEASE do not SAY AGAIN That i Have said so, Please


Shorty - respectfully - this is not my first rodeo with you. Apparently over the years you have made multiple changes to your "Short-Trib" Theory. I've always argued that it's not adding up. There were times where you have mentioned the aforementioned comments I said you've made. As a matter of fact - you've named yourself "Shorttribber" because you've mentioned those days were cut short, and wouldn't last the entire 1,260 days. I don't have time to hash all that up and present it to you here - but it's certainly documented.

Moving forward - I sill have a lot of respect for your studies. I just know you're wrong about Daniel 12:11-12.
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Re: 11 THE TABERNACLES OF his PALACE 12

Postby shorttribber on Sat Oct 17, 2020 4:22 pm

If you wish to bow out it's your choice Mr. B....but i wil continue and show the proof of what you say i have no scriptural foundation for.

But as for the rest of your comment, i will add these words to answer your false claims...
Mr Baldy wrote:Shorty - respectfully - this is not my first rodeo with you. Apparently over the years you have made multiple changes to your "Short-Trib" Theory.

Find one then and post it...i found yours...just search my posts.

At the bottom of this post, i will list the ONLY Change i've made in about 15 years of teaching "shorttrib/prewrath".

Mr Baldy wrote: I've always argued that it's not adding up. There were times where you have mentioned the aforementioned comments I said you've made.

Then as i said please find EVEN ONE PLACE where i said such.
Mr Baldy wrote:As a matter of fact - you've named yourself "Shorttribber" because you've mentioned those days were cut short, and wouldn't last the entire 1,260 days.

Really :lol: you think you even know WHY i call myself shorttribber? No, Mr B., i called myself "shorttribber" ONLY because i Beleive in Only 3.5 Years of Great Trib that the saints Endure to the Very END, ALL the Way to the VERY END of 1,260 days of it , all the way to END of the 42 Months of it, ALL the Way the END of the 3.5 YEARS of it!

I hope that i said that Clearly Enough!

But i will also add this, so that you know my ONE and ONLY Reason i called myself "shorttribber".
My NAME Is shorttribber BECAUSE I DO NOT BELIEVE in 7 (SEVEN) YEARS of Tribulation, Period!

Agian, i Have NEVER ONCE SAID that 1,260 days are "CUT SHORT" for the elect, NOT ONCE!

What i Have said, is that "THOSE DAYS" that Christ decsribed as Great Tribulation WILL LAST 1,290 DAYS

AND THOSE DAYS, 1,290 of them WILL BE CUT SHORT!

Do you see now? I said the 1,290 will be Cut short, NOT the 1,260!

Is that Clear Enough?

Mr Baldy wrote: I don't have time to hash all that up and present it to you here - but it's certainly documented.

Then when you have time to do so, PLEASE do so, and then PLEASE POST it, Because you will not find it "Documented" ANYWHERE in the Words that i have EVER Said!

Now, i will explain the ONE SINGLE change that i have made in about 15 years.

Please take Good note of it.

At one time i did not understand the 1,335 days as a "year for a day" prophecy. I thought that there were 45 More Days added to the end of the 1,290 days.
I thought at one time that the Saints would go through the Complete 3.5 years/42/1,260 days (time times and a half time) however you wish to define the WHOLE 3.5 year GREAT TRIB.

I thought that the rapture would occur Sometime in the 30 or 45 days AFTER the 3.5 years, i thought the rapture would occur sometime in those last 75 days.

That is not what i believe now.

And that change occured About 5 years ago for me i believe.


I do hope you will continue in this thread as you have time Mr. B., and i will certainly be willing to retract what i said, if you ever find a place where you think i said what you think i said.
I absolutely assure you though Mr. B., you will find No Such Place where i have Ever Said it.

Blessings in whatever you choose to do.
:hugs:
Last edited by shorttribber on Sun Oct 18, 2020 8:02 am, edited 3 times in total.
The Wisest men have changed their Counsels and Resolves upon second thoughts, much more upon experience, and approaching evils not at first discovered. Rev. Herbert Croft, 1675

Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counsellors there is safety.

Find seven years of tribulation plainly stated in the Bible.
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Re: 11 THE TABERNACLES OF his PALACE 12

Postby shorttribber on Sat Oct 17, 2020 7:55 pm

Jay Ross wrote:ST I have gone back and taken out one to many inserted sq. bracketed "quote = Shorttribber" commands, where I had doubled up on that command, while I was responding to your post.

What I had posted as comments to what you had said became lost in a bigger quote than I intended.

You may like to comment of the bits of my previous post that become effectively hidden.

I am sorry for my miss communications as I did not go and proof read what I had written after I had posted. My bad.

Shalom

Hi Jay,
Trying to answer what seems always to be almost you whole end time position is not possible for me.
Not because I can't, but because my focus needs to stay as much as possible on the things I'm presenting.
I still have much more to do in that regard , namely Daniel 12.

I just can't answer all that you're asking of me right now.

Blessings to you though.
The Wisest men have changed their Counsels and Resolves upon second thoughts, much more upon experience, and approaching evils not at first discovered. Rev. Herbert Croft, 1675

Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counsellors there is safety.

Find seven years of tribulation plainly stated in the Bible.
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Re: 11 THE TABERNACLES OF his PALACE 12

Postby Mr Baldy on Sun Oct 18, 2020 9:01 am

shorttribber wrote:But i will also add this, so that you know my ONE and ONLY Reason i called myself "shorttribber". My NAME Is shorttribber BECAUSE I DO NOT BELIEVE in 7 (SEVEN) YEARS of Tribulation, Period! Agian, i Have NEVER ONCE SAID that 1,260 days are "CUT SHORT" for the elect, NOT ONCE! What i Have said, is that "THOSE DAYS" that Christ decsribed as Great Tribulation WILL LAST 1,290 DAYS


Hi Shorty -

I have reviewed a few of your posts regarding this matter - and I owe you an apology. Please accept my sincerest apology for misrepresenting what I believed to be a statement you made. Over the past several years you have consistently mentioned that you believe the Great Tribulation will last 1,290 days.

But you're wrong :mrgreen:

Shorty - and others who are reading this Thread. Daniel 12:11-12 is clearly describing an AOD. I wholeheartedly believe this prophecy has already been fulfilled because the numbers provided 1,290 and 1,335 respectively - go 75 days the amount of time allotted for the 1,260 time period. And this is regardless of whatever one believes about the 70 weeks. Point of the matter is ONLY 3.5 years remain.

Jesus clearly died in the 70th week - no doubt about it. Question is, are we STILL in the 70th week ie...in the 'midst' as some will have you believe? Or, did we complete half of the final week (70th) - the week itself continued; however, the remaining 3.5 prophetic years will come at a later time - thus competing the final portion of the 70th week?

I happen to believe what Scripture says. 70 weeks were determined. It never states WHEN it will be completed. Nor did time stop when Jesus died in the 70th week. He just fulfilled prophecy in that He died AFTER the 69th week or in the 70th week - and the remaining portion or 3.5 years will be completed sometime in the future.

I believe Daniel 12:11-13 has nothing to do with the final 3.5 years. The numbers just don't add up. Daniel 12:11-13 has to be referring to an earlier AOD ie…. the AOD mentioned in Daniel 11:31 (Antiochus Epiphanies IV) - or the AOD committed by (Titus) in AD 70. Nevertheless, it appears the fulfillment of this Prophecy has been fulfilled Historically.

As we know from Scripture - prophecies often have dual or multiple meanings. How one can take Daniel 12:11-12 and link it to a very specific time period or the Final 3.5 years is beyond me. The very plain reading of Daniel 12:11-12 clearly identifies an extra 75 Day period that goes beyond the rest of the time given in Scripture - therefore, it should not be factored in to the Final 3.5 years. It makes absolutely no sense at all.

So for those who think the adding the 30 days (1,290) and 45 days (1,335) to consistently Scripturally provided 1,260 Days - please tell me why?

There is nothing in Scripture that would suggest adding the 30 + 45 Days to the Final 3.5 years - or that it should be implied.

Perhaps it's time those for you who continue to add Daniel 12:11-12 into an End Time paradigm - or believe that it factors in to the 1,260 days give this particular passage of Scripture another look.
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Re: 11 THE TABERNACLES OF his PALACE 12

Postby Mr Baldy on Sun Oct 18, 2020 9:48 am

Just wanted to add this link:

http://truebiblecode.com/understanding153.html

The aforementioned link is a Historical view point as recorded by the Historian Josephus.

According to what Josephus wrote - Titus appeared to have fulfilled the AOD mentioned in Daniel 12:11-12. If this fulfilment by Titus is true, then no wonder it would make since for the 2nd Coming of Christ catching many by surprise. Many will be looking for the events set forth as described in Scripture and recorded by Josephus; however, it appears it may have already happened.

Additionally - the author of this article makes a point that I don't believe most have ever considered. He states Daniel 12:11-12 cannot be referring to the AOD mentioned in Daniel 9:27 as:
"there is no covenant associated with it."
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Re: 11 THE TABERNACLES OF his PALACE 12

Postby shorttribber on Sun Oct 18, 2020 11:10 am

Mr Baldy wrote:Just wanted to add this link:

http://truebiblecode.com/understanding153.html

The aforementioned link is a Historical view point as recorded by the Historian Josephus.

According to what Josephus wrote - Titus appeared to have fulfilled the AOD mentioned in Daniel 12:11-12. If this fulfilment by Titus is true, then no wonder it would make since for the 2nd Coming of Christ catching many by surprise. Many will be looking for the events set forth as described in Scripture and recorded by Josephus; however, it appears it may have already happened.

Additionally - the author of this article makes a point that I don't believe most have ever considered. He states Daniel 12:11-12 cannot be referring to the AOD mentioned in Daniel 9:27 as:
"there is no covenant associated with it."


I agree with that assessment in part. The Daniel 12:12 AOD is not referring to the 9:27 prophecy. I have never ONCE EVER said it did/does. I have Said in the Strongest terms i could ever use Before Mr. B., exactly that.
I do know how to find Every post i've ever made,except ones that may have been deleted long ago that couldn't be archived when they needed to make memory space in the whole system.

I have Always said that the Dan 12:12 mention of an AOD was referring ONLY to "the Daily" offering, Not the Atonememt Sacrifice that is Mentioned Only in Daniel 9:27. Even though the WORD "Atonement" is not in the text, the Word SACRIFICE used in that Place (9:27) IS Describing the Atonement, BLOOD, Scrifice!
Daniel 9:27 is the ONLY place where THAT BLOOD SACRIFICE WORD is used in Daniel!

All the other mentions of an AOD in Daniel describe Only "The DAILY" Offering, NOT the BLOOD Sacrice.

Now, Mr. B., i hope what i said is Perfectly Plain and Clear, The Daniel 12:12 prophecy HAS Definitely Had TYPE and Shadow REAL Historic Fulfillments.
There is and WILL BE a Last and FINAL Fulfillment, and THAT is what i WILL Prove to you as i continue this thread.

Please just keep an open mind as you have shown in the past, and i assure you these dates and times i'm trying to explain, WILL ADD UP.

Thank you also for your kind and sincere apology, of which i will happily accept.

:hugs:
The Wisest men have changed their Counsels and Resolves upon second thoughts, much more upon experience, and approaching evils not at first discovered. Rev. Herbert Croft, 1675

Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counsellors there is safety.

Find seven years of tribulation plainly stated in the Bible.
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Re: 11 THE TABERNACLES OF his PALACE 12

Postby shorttribber on Sun Oct 18, 2020 11:29 am

Mr Baldy wrote:So for those who think the adding the 30 days (1,290) and 45 days (1,335) to consistently Scripturally provided 1,260 Days - please tell me why?


That is exactly what i intend to do next Mr. B..

I will explain that I AM NOT ADDING 45 more days M. B....that was an error i made in the past that i DO NOT Make today.
I have already admitted that error in my previous post just a couple above this one.

Did you not read that? Where i wrote the following....
shorttribber wrote:At one time i did not understand the 1,335 days as a "year for a day" prophecy. I thought that there were 45 More Days added to the end of the 1,290 days........
I thought that the rapture would occur Sometime in the 30 or 45 days AFTER the 3.5 years, i thought the rapture would occur sometime in those last 75 days.

That is not what i believe now.

And that change occured About 5 years ago for me i believe.



This is Why i ask you to PLEASE SLOW DOWN and READ What a person writes Mr. B..
PLEASE SLOW DOWN and FULLY and Completely Read what we write, BEFORE you answer back.
The Wisest men have changed their Counsels and Resolves upon second thoughts, much more upon experience, and approaching evils not at first discovered. Rev. Herbert Croft, 1675

Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counsellors there is safety.

Find seven years of tribulation plainly stated in the Bible.
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Re: 11 THE TABERNACLES OF his PALACE 12

Postby WOODHENOT3 on Sun Oct 18, 2020 4:54 pm

I read Daniel 12 three times yesterday to let it sink in me,,, The Whole thing is clearly the last 3.5 years to me and verse 11-13 is fulfilled in a way, but I see God pointing at this fulfilled image and using it for us to understand the future which may soon be taking place exactly where it is at the Temple Mount... to me it's like God is saying, hey, remember 70ad? well, know that this is going to happen again...I agree its fulfilled Mr. Baldy, but I don't see God is talking about what's fulfilling here... I think God is showing us a warning, a clue, an understanding... in spiritual sense....

This is an amazing discussion to me, like a revealing... Jesus said, AFTER the tribulation of "those days"... I believe he is speaking the whole 1290 days...but for the elect sake, those days would be shortened, so I intend to believe we will be gathered between the 1260 days to 1290 days...my honest opinion...I think we will be taken at the same time as the two witness... 3.5 days after the 1260 days... that's how I see it so far... :)

God bless!
In Christ Always,
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Re: 11 THE TABERNACLES OF his PALACE 12

Postby Mr Baldy on Mon Oct 19, 2020 2:30 am

WOODHENOT3 wrote:This is an amazing discussion to me, like a revealing... Jesus said, AFTER the tribulation of "those days"... I believe he is speaking the whole 1290 days...but for the elect sake, those days would be shortened, so I intend to believe we will be gathered between the 1260 days to 1290 days...my honest opinion...I think we will be taken at the same time as the two witness... 3.5 days after the 1260 days... that's how I see it so far... :)


HI Woody -

Just a quick note..... The Book of Daniel is "all over the place" as far as prophecy is concerned. I'd be really careful to include Daniel 12:11-12 into any End Time potential fulfillment.

Scripture is normally confirmed by other parts of Scripture. The 1,260 days are consistently confirmed over, and over, and over again throughout various passages of Scripture - whereas the 1,290 and 1,335 days are only mentioned once. And Jesus said "IMMEDIATELY AFTER" the tribulation of those days - He never gives a specific time; namely 30 Days to pour out His Wrath.

Lastly - please keep in mind Jesus Himself said He would raise us on the LAST DAY. Not any moment prior. The LAST DAY means the LAST DAY. Just as 1,260 Days means 1,260. Not 1,290 or 1,335.

God Bless!
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Re: 11 THE TABERNACLES OF his PALACE 12

Postby WOODHENOT3 on Mon Oct 19, 2020 7:59 am

Mr Baldy wrote:
WOODHENOT3 wrote:This is an amazing discussion to me, like a revealing... Jesus said, AFTER the tribulation of "those days"... I believe he is speaking the whole 1290 days...but for the elect sake, those days would be shortened, so I intend to believe we will be gathered between the 1260 days to 1290 days...my honest opinion...I think we will be taken at the same time as the two witness... 3.5 days after the 1260 days... that's how I see it so far... :)


HI Woody -

Just a quick note..... The Book of Daniel is "all over the place" as far as prophecy is concerned. I'd be really careful to include Daniel 12:11-12 into any End Time potential fulfillment.

Scripture is normally confirmed by other parts of Scripture. The 1,260 days are consistently confirmed over, and over, and over again throughout various passages of Scripture - whereas the 1,290 and 1,335 days are only mentioned once. And Jesus said "IMMEDIATELY AFTER" the tribulation of those days - He never gives a specific time; namely 30 Days to pour out His Wrath.

Lastly - please keep in mind Jesus Himself said He would raise us on the LAST DAY. Not any moment prior. The LAST DAY means the LAST DAY. Just as 1,260 Days means 1,260. Not 1,290 or 1,335.

God Bless!


I understand what you're saying Mr. Baldy. If we are not suppose to know the Day and Hour, It seems to me after the Tribulation of those days(after 1260 days) then the Signs... but I wonder... The two witnesses rise up three days after the 1260 days... so the Last Day doesnt seem to apply yet...
In Christ Always,
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Re: 11 THE TABERNACLES OF his PALACE 12

Postby Mr Baldy on Mon Oct 19, 2020 9:45 am

WOODHENOT3 wrote:I understand what you're saying Mr. Baldy. If we are not suppose to know the Day and Hour, It seems to me after the Tribulation of those days(after 1260 days) then the Signs... but I wonder... The two witnesses rise up three days after the 1260 days... so the Last Day doesnt seem to apply yet...


Hi Woody -

When reading the Book of Revelation, we have to be very careful not to get metaphorical; figurative; and symbolic language mixed up with the literal aspects of what is being conveyed. I personally don't think the Two Witnesses are literal figures. Some have chalked them up to be 'Moses' and 'Elijah' - or 'Enoch' and 'Moses' - and there have been others mentioned. A big as the entire World is - I don't think Two Witnesses would make that much of an impact on Fallen Man-Kind during this time period. So the description of the works their doing has more of a metaphorical meaning in my opinion.

In closing, sometimes I really think we make more of a big deal trying to discover the mysteries of End Times than Scripture actually reads. I believe it's more simplistic. Jesus will Appear on the Last Day - we are Raptured at the Time. Judgement ensues, and Eternity Begins.
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Re: 11 THE TABERNACLES OF his PALACE 12

Postby shorttribber on Mon Oct 19, 2020 10:24 am

Mr Baldy wrote:
WOODHENOT3 wrote:I understand what you're saying Mr. Baldy. If we are not suppose to know the Day and Hour, It seems to me after the Tribulation of those days(after 1260 days) then the Signs... but I wonder... The two witnesses rise up three days after the 1260 days... so the Last Day doesnt seem to apply yet...


Hi Woody -

When reading the Book of Revelation, we have to be very careful not to get metaphorical; figurative; and symbolic language mixed up with the literal aspects of what is being conveyed. I personally don't think the Two Witnesses are literal figures. Some have chalked them up to be 'Moses' and 'Elijah' - or 'Enoch' and 'Moses' - and there have been others mentioned. A big as the entire World is - I don't think Two Witnesses would make that much of an impact on Fallen Man-Kind during this time period. So the description of the works their doing has more of a metaphorical meaning in my opinion.

In closing, sometimes I really think we make more of a big deal trying to discover the mysteries of End Times than Scripture actually reads. I believe it's more simplistic. Jesus will Appear on the Last Day - we are Raptured at the Time. Judgement ensues, and Eternity Begins.


I think the way to simplify understanding is to realize that The Last Day is just not a 24 hour day.
I know you believe that, but I also know that I could list well over a hundred examples of the word "That Day" or "The Day" where it is not to be understood as a 24 hour "Day".

Just please keep that in mind Mr. B.
The Wisest men have changed their Counsels and Resolves upon second thoughts, much more upon experience, and approaching evils not at first discovered. Rev. Herbert Croft, 1675

Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counsellors there is safety.

Find seven years of tribulation plainly stated in the Bible.
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Re: 11 THE TABERNACLES OF his PALACE 12

Postby Mr Baldy on Mon Oct 19, 2020 11:18 am

shorttribber wrote:I think the way to simplify understanding is to realize that The Last Day is just not a 24 hour day.I know you believe that, but I also know that I could list well over a hundred examples of the word "That Day" or "The Day" where it is not to be understood as a 24 hour "Day".Just please keep that in mind Mr. B.


Hi Shorty -

I've heard many things as it relates to the Day of the Lord; Last Day; End of Time …..ect. How it's not a literal 24 hour day or it should be understood as a 1,000 year day....blah, blah, blah.

When Jesus Appears Time ENDS as we know it. His Return will be such an overwhelming event nothing else will even matter. He Appears - IT's ALL OVER - PERIOD.

But here is what Scripture has to say about this very Unique Day:

Zechariah 14:1-9 - ESV

The Coming Day of the Lord

1) Behold, a day is coming for the Lord, when the spoil taken from you will be divided in your midst. 2) For I will gather all the nations against Jerusalem to battle, and the city shall be taken and the houses plundered and the women raped. Half of the city shall go out into exile, but the rest of the people shall not be cut off from the city. 3) Then the Lord will go out and fight against those nations as when he fights on a day of battle. 4) On that day his feet shall stand on the Mount of Olives that lies before Jerusalem on the east, and the Mount of Olives shall be split in two from east to west by a very wide valley, so that one half of the Mount shall move northward, and the other half southward. 5) And you shall flee to the valley of my mountains, for the valley of the mountains shall reach to Azal. And you shall flee as you fled from the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Then the Lord my God will come, and all the holy ones with him.

6) On that day there shall be no light, cold, or frost. 7) And there shall be a unique day, which is known to the Lord, neither day nor night, but at evening time there shall be light.

8) On that day living waters shall flow out from Jerusalem, half of them to the eastern sea and half of them to the western sea.[e] It shall continue in summer as in winter.

9) And the Lord will be king over all the earth. On that day the Lord will be one and his name one.


AFTER He Appears - there will be no such thing as TIME as we currently know it.
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Re: 11 THE TABERNACLES OF his PALACE 12

Postby shorttribber on Mon Oct 19, 2020 11:23 am

Mr Baldy wrote:
shorttribber wrote:I think the way to simplify understanding is to realize that The Last Day is just not a 24 hour day.I know you believe that, but I also know that I could list well over a hundred examples of the word "That Day" or "The Day" where it is not to be understood as a 24 hour "Day".Just please keep that in mind Mr. B.


Hi Shorty -

I've heard many things as it relates to the Day of the Lord; Last Day; End of Time …..ect. How it's not a literal 24 hour day or it should be understood as a 1,000 year day....blah, blah, blah.

When Jesus Appears Time ENDS as we know it. His Return will be such an overwhelming event nothing else will even matter. He Appears - IT's ALL OVER - PERIOD.

But here is what Scripture has to say about this very Unique Day:

Zechariah 14:1-9 - ESV

The Coming Day of the Lord

1) Behold, a day is coming for the Lord, when the spoil taken from you will be divided in your midst. 2) For I will gather all the nations against Jerusalem to battle, and the city shall be taken and the houses plundered and the women raped. Half of the city shall go out into exile, but the rest of the people shall not be cut off from the city. 3) Then the Lord will go out and fight against those nations as when he fights on a day of battle. 4) On that day his feet shall stand on the Mount of Olives that lies before Jerusalem on the east, and the Mount of Olives shall be split in two from east to west by a very wide valley, so that one half of the Mount shall move northward, and the other half southward. 5) And you shall flee to the valley of my mountains, for the valley of the mountains shall reach to Azal. And you shall flee as you fled from the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Then the Lord my God will come, and all the holy ones with him.

6) On that day there shall be no light, cold, or frost. 7) And there shall be a unique day, which is known to the Lord, neither day nor night, but at evening time there shall be light.

8) On that day living waters shall flow out from Jerusalem, half of them to the eastern sea and half of them to the western sea.[e] It shall continue in summer as in winter.

9) And the Lord will be king over all the earth. On that day the Lord will be one and his name one.


AFTER He Appears - there will be no such thing as TIME as we currently know it.


Where in the text does it say that " Time Ends as We Know It"?

That is what we both call "Reading Into the Text" , that IS exactly what you are doing in this case Mr. B.
The Wisest men have changed their Counsels and Resolves upon second thoughts, much more upon experience, and approaching evils not at first discovered. Rev. Herbert Croft, 1675

Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counsellors there is safety.

Find seven years of tribulation plainly stated in the Bible.
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Re: 11 THE TABERNACLES OF his PALACE 12

Postby shorttribber on Mon Oct 19, 2020 11:44 am

As to what you said regarding the two witnesses, I am somewhat inclined to agree with you Mr. B..
It may not be to literal people. I did say May though, just don't know for certain.
The Wisest men have changed their Counsels and Resolves upon second thoughts, much more upon experience, and approaching evils not at first discovered. Rev. Herbert Croft, 1675

Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counsellors there is safety.

Find seven years of tribulation plainly stated in the Bible.
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Re: 11 THE TABERNACLES OF his PALACE 12

Postby Mr Baldy on Mon Oct 19, 2020 12:35 pm

shorttribber wrote:Where in the text does it say that " Time Ends as We Know It"?That is what we both call "Reading Into the Text" , that IS exactly what you are doing in this case Mr. B.


Shorty -

Of course the Text doesn't say that. Sometimes we have to use "reasonable deduction" when Scripture calls for interpretation that is not plainly written - and normally other verses of Scripture support the reasonable deduction.

Let me ask you this......When Jesus Appears - will time matter to you? Will time be a factor? Will you and we who Believe in Him be in an Eternal State Forever? Will a so-called Millennial Kingdom even matter? Things as we see, know, hear, smell, feel won't even matter when He Appears. Look..... just His very presence will illuminate the entire Universe in such a way that space, time, the elements - and everything as we currently know it will have changed.
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Re: 11 THE TABERNACLES OF his PALACE 12

Postby shorttribber on Mon Oct 19, 2020 1:07 pm

Mr Baldy wrote:
shorttribber wrote:Where in the text does it say that " Time Ends as We Know It"?That is what we both call "Reading Into the Text" , that IS exactly what you are doing in this case Mr. B.


Shorty -

Of course the Text doesn't say that. Sometimes we have to use "reasonable deduction" when Scripture calls for interpretation that is not plainly written - and normally other verses of Scripture support the reasonable deduction.

Let me ask you this......When Jesus Appears - will time matter to you? Will time be a factor? Will you and we who Believe in Him be in an Eternal State Forever? Will a so-called Millennial Kingdom even matter? Things as we see, know, hear, smell, feel won't even matter when He Appears. Look..... just His very presence will illuminate the entire Universe in such a way that space, time, the elements - and everything as we currently know it will have changed.
I agree, Mr. B. regarding those general feelings. What we feel then does not change what is currently written now though.
We just can't add our ideas into a text and say it is so.
We can say IMO, thu and thus, but that is the most we can do based on the lack of clarity or mystery associated with some texts.

It makes us less dogmatic when we can all admit that.
The Wisest men have changed their Counsels and Resolves upon second thoughts, much more upon experience, and approaching evils not at first discovered. Rev. Herbert Croft, 1675

Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counsellors there is safety.

Find seven years of tribulation plainly stated in the Bible.
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Re: 11 THE TABERNACLES OF his PALACE 12

Postby WOODHENOT3 on Mon Oct 19, 2020 1:24 pm

Once we enter the Great Tribulations, we shall know what's beyond us!
Would have been nice if the Bible was more detailed, but if it was, who would have Faith?
Last edited by WOODHENOT3 on Tue Oct 20, 2020 11:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 11 THE TABERNACLES OF his PALACE 12

Postby Mr Baldy on Mon Oct 19, 2020 1:42 pm

shorttribber wrote:We just can't add our ideas into a text and say it is so.


EXACTLY!!!

This rule should be applied when using Daniel 12:11-12 :mrgreen:
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Re: 11 THE TABERNACLES OF his PALACE 12

Postby shorttribber on Mon Oct 19, 2020 2:11 pm

Mr Baldy wrote:
shorttribber wrote:We just can't add our ideas into a text and say it is so.


EXACTLY!!!

This rule should be applied when using Daniel 12:11-12 :mrgreen:

I agree.


But I will add, that goes for anybody having opinions on that text.
The Wisest men have changed their Counsels and Resolves upon second thoughts, much more upon experience, and approaching evils not at first discovered. Rev. Herbert Croft, 1675

Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counsellors there is safety.

Find seven years of tribulation plainly stated in the Bible.
shorttribber
 
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