Woman Riding Beast - Map and Theory - Updated

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Re: Woman Riding Beast - Map and Theory - Updated

Postby kirthril on Wed Jun 20, 2018 1:28 pm

For those who contest this interpretation saying Babylon is a city, not an alliance of countries, I include the following which I have also added to the second entry of this topic.

Babylon the city: The merchants of the earth will weep and mourn (Rev 18:11): Brussels, Belgium, the capital of the EU, where many of its government institutions, as well as world government institutions, reside is also a port city (See: http://www.portdebruxelles.be/en/0/. This port city, also being the government seat, will be destroyed during war.

Many debates on this in these forums of which I have added to so I won't say much in this thread but Revelation makes things perfectly clear as to whom Mystery Babylon is. What you have stated here is only partially correct. But you leave out a important piece to its location.

I believe Mark F also brings up a GREAT post to show exactly where the kingdom of the Antichrist is but I will get to it later.
.......................

1. Mystery Babylon is a city

It is indeed a single solitary city. It is a rich city. Kings of the earth and princes and rich men bow to this city. This city is drunk with the blood of the saints. It is by a body of water that is a global trading lane. Revelation clearly states that the "Woman" IS the seven hilled city. And is the mother of a false religion.

But most importantly this city sits in the middle of the wilderness. No mans land. Desert.

Neither New York, Rome, or Brussels fit all these descriptions. Pick and choose prophecy is a dead prophecy. If all the dots do not connect, you have it wrong.

There is only one city on earth that fits all these descriptions and it is Mecca, the mother of Islam, which is drunk on the blood of Christians, that sits in a desert, on seven hills, next to the red sea, the worlds #1 trading lane, and is a city that 1 billion people rich and small, free or slave, kings and peons, bow to and take part in her abominations.

Revelation states this city will be destroyed in 1 hour, in concert with her host nation being destroyed in 1 day.
..............................

2. End times Babylon is the host nation of Mystery Babylon that shares the same characteristics. The only difference is that its destruction will take place on the day that MB is destroyed.

"In one day her plagues will overtake her and in one hour she will be destroyed". So there is a destruction that will endure over a day, and an instant destruction over an hour.

Isaiah points to the location of end times Babylon: Arabia and her cities/regions. She will be destroyed by Elam (modern day Iran). Thus showing that Iran/Persia, is one of the 10 kings of the beast kingdom alliance.
................................

3. Mystery Babylon/Babylon is NOT part of the beast empire. It rides the beast, attempting to control it, but is not "part" of the beast and is thus thrown off. Mystery Babylon and its host nation cannot be part of the 10, thus it makes no sense for example for Rome/Italy or Brussels/Belgium to be both MB and one of the 10 kings.
..........................

4. Lastly Mark F writes:
Rev 12:3 has a beast with seven heads and ten horns, it is also firey red.
Rev 13:1-2 mentions this seven headed, ten horned beast again, Satan gave the beast his throne in verse 2, Jesus said that Satan's throne is in Pergamos, Rev. 2:13. That's in present day Turkey.

I believe that the fourth beast is the Ottoman Empire, they were based in Turkey. It's all the same firey red beast.

There you have it. Stated in full, prophecy revealed, the truth. No speculation needed. No interpretation needed. Its. Right. There.

Satan gives the beast empire his throne and seat of authority. Pergamos is that seat. And its Turkey.

Turkey was the HEAD of the 7th great empire, the Ottoman empire, largest empire in world history.
Turkey was defeated in WW1 and its empire broken to pieces.

We are told that it is this very same 7th head that will have its "fatal wound" healed and return as the 8th king and empire.

Thus, it will be from the Northwest of Israel (as stated by Daniel 9) that the Lead beast nation roars from, Turkey, a ottoman empire revived, who will stir up the peoples and nations "roundabout" the nation of Israel, and like a cloud will advance across the land to Israel.
.....................

Ezekiel, Daniel, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Obadiah, Zechariah and I am probably forgetting a few all point to an alliance of middle eastern and north african nations. You will not find the name of a single currently non-muslim country in all of prophecy that is part of the final AC alliance against Israel. While the AC empire will start of middle eastern in origin, it will no doubt, as stated in scripture, draw many nations and peoples to ally with it.
"It is not who I am...But what I do that defines me" -Batman, Batman Begins
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Re: Woman Riding Beast - Map and Theory - Updated

Postby mark s on Wed Jun 20, 2018 2:37 pm

Hi Kirthril,

I have to say, I'm still not convinced of this, I still have certain issues, but I have to say, you lay out a very compelling case! i'm going to be doing some more thinking about this.

One thing that does occur to me is Herb's initial theory and the reason why we're all here, it was very very close, so very close! But not the one.

But again, very interesting what you've written!

Much love!
Mark
ειπεν αυτη ο ιησους εγω ειμι η αναστασις και η ζωη ο πιστευων εις εμε καν αποθανη ζησεται
. . . saying to her Jesus, I AM the resurrection and the life, the one believing into Me even dying shall live . . .
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Re: Woman Riding Beast - Map and Theory - Updated

Postby keithareilly on Wed Jun 20, 2018 3:44 pm

Folks,

I appreciate each of you have an end times theory and that this may not fit in with that theory.
Personally, I do not have an end times theory. So, I do not need to make individual prophecies fit into some larger theory.

This theory is based upon this fact:
A human geopolitical kingdom is a geographic entity which can be represented using a map.
Therefore, if a beast is a kingdom, a human geopolitical entity, then it can be viewed via a map.

Period. End of story. There are no exceptions to this rule.

Arguing this theory cannot be correct because it does not fit an end times view is not an argument against this theory.


Keith
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Re: Woman Riding Beast - Map and Theory - Updated

Postby keithareilly on Wed Jun 20, 2018 4:45 pm

Kirthril,

You said ...
Isaiah points to the location of end times Babylon: Arabia and her cities/regions. She will be destroyed by Elam (modern day Iran). Thus showing that Iran/Persia, is one of the 10 kings of the beast kingdom alliance
.

You are aware the ancient Babylonian empire was destroyed by Cyrus the Great. Thus was Babylon destroyed by Persia.
You do know this has already happened. Correct?

And you said
Turkey was the HEAD of the 7th great empire, the Ottoman empire, largest empire in world history.
Turkey was defeated in WW1 and its empire broken to pieces.

You might want to check these statistics. The British Empire was the largest empire in world history, 35.5 million square km. Quite a bit larger than the Ottoman Empire which was 5.2 million square km.
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Re: Woman Riding Beast - Map and Theory - Updated

Postby kirthril on Thu Jun 21, 2018 8:30 am

You might want to check these statistics. The British Empire was the largest empire in world history, 35.5 million square km. Quite a bit larger than the Ottoman Empire which was 5.2 million square km.


Let me clarify. Largest unbroken contiguous land based empire. The Ottoman caliphate, the Islamic Umma, stretched unbroken from Atlantic to Indian, with Malaysia/Indonesia in the pacific, from Central Africa to Central Asia and into Central and Eastern Europe. The OIC, 57 nations, are the broken remains that were under the Umma. The ottoman caliphate was the last of the great caliphates and its influence, allegiances, and power were over all these nations. Remember, under a caliphate, in Islam, there is no such thing as "borders" or "nation-states", all are one under the Umma. So don't let our western emphasis on borders skew the fact that the entire muslim world was under authority of the Ottomans and in allegiance to them.

Your source even states:
but the list is not and cannot be definitive since the decision about which entities to consider as "empires" is difficult and fraught with controversy.

An empire involves the extension of a state's sovereignty over external territories and a variety of different ethnic groups. The term "empire" in this context (not necessarily a state ruled by an emperor) does not have a precise definition, but is generally applied to political entities that are considered to be especially large by the standards of their time and that have acquired a significant part of their territory by conquest.

Thus I will take a educated guess, and say that wiki did not take into account that Islam as a religion considers all "nations" who have given allegiance to the caliph are part of the Islamic Umma. Thus a true map of the ottoman caliph should stretch encompassing all the Islamic nations which bowed to the caliphs until its collapse in 1917.
.............................

You are aware the ancient Babylonian empire was destroyed by Cyrus the Great. Thus was Babylon destroyed by Persia.
You do know this has already happened. Correct?


lets take a look at what I said prior:
Pick and choose prophecy is a dead prophecy. If all the dots do not connect, you have it wrong.

So lets read ALL of Isaiah 21 shall we?:

A Prophecy Against Babylon
21 A prophecy against the Desert by the Sea:
Like whirlwinds sweeping through the southland,
an invader comes from the desert,
from a land of terror.
2
A dire vision has been shown to me:
The traitor betrays, the looter takes loot.
Elam, attack! Media, lay siege!
I will bring to an end all the groaning she caused.
3
At this my body is racked with pain,
pangs seize me, like those of a woman in labor;
I am staggered by what I hear,
I am bewildered by what I see.
4
My heart falters,
fear makes me tremble;
the twilight I longed for
has become a horror to me.
5
They set the tables,
they spread the rugs,
they eat, they drink!
Get up, you officers,
oil the shields!
6 This is what the Lord says to me:
“Go, post a lookout
and have him report what he sees.
7
When he sees chariots
with teams of horses,
riders on donkeys
or riders on camels,
let him be alert,
fully alert.”
8 And the lookout[a] shouted,
“Day after day, my lord, I stand on the watchtower;
every night I stay at my post.
9
Look, here comes a man in a chariot
with a team of horses.
And he gives back the answer:
‘Babylon has fallen, has fallen!
All the images of its gods
lie shattered on the ground!’”
10
My people who are crushed on the threshing floor,
I tell you what I have heard
from the Lord Almighty,
from the God of Israel.
11 A prophecy against Dumah[b]:
Someone calls to me from Seir,
“Watchman, what is left of the night?
Watchman, what is left of the night?”
12
The watchman replies,
“Morning is coming, but also the night.
If you would ask, then ask;
and come back yet again.”
13 A prophecy against Arabia:
You caravans of Dedanites,
who camp in the thickets of Arabia,
14
bring water for the thirsty;
you who live in Tema,
bring food for the fugitives.
15
They flee from the sword,
from the drawn sword,
from the bent bow
and from the heat of battle.
16 This is what the Lord says to me: “Within one year, as a servant bound by contract would count it, all the splendor of Kedar will come to an end. 17 The survivors of the archers, the warriors of Kedar, will be few.” The Lord, the God of Israel, has spoken.


So here we have Babylon being attacked by Elam/Persia. But take the chapter as a whole rather than just the 1st paragraph. Isaiah shows us that during this attack on "Babylon" that the locations of this attack are ALL in Arabia: Arabia, Tema, Kedar, Dedan, Seir, Dumah.

This obviously cannot be referring to the Babylon of Iraq.

Next, the prophecy is literally called "A Prophecy Against the Desert By The Sea."
The city of Babylon may be in a desert, but it certainly is nowhere close to any sea. The Persian gulf is way far to the southeast. But more importantly "Sea".

According to Strongs Hebrew Concordance 3220 "Yawm" or "Yam", the word "sea" means : red, sea, seacoast, seas, seashore, seashore, south, west, west side, western, westward.

Just a short glance will tell you that this "desert Babylon" is by the "red sea" on its "southwest or western shoreline".

This is not Iraq. It is, and can only be Arabia, especially since the rest of the chapter specifically mentions Arabia and its various regions.

While Cyrus and Persia, may represent a partial fulfillment of Isaiah 21, it is not the totality of it. The prophecy of King Cyrus over Babylon is put in great detail elsewhere in the old testament (Ezekiel I believe?) in which Daniel himself, showed Cyrus the prophecy he had just fulfilled, but that prophecy that Daniel showed Cyrus was not Isaiah 21.
...................

Since Isaiah 21 puts this "Babylon" within the borders of Arabia, this can only mean that this Babylon in the desert is the very same Babylon in the wilderness (no mans land/desert) John of revelation refers to as the Harlot of the end times. Thus, Arabia, is the end times Babylon.
................

Just want to add, as I stated in other threads, the end time Babylon/MB is not EVER mentioned as THE wealthiest, or THE richest or THE most powerful city/nation. Never. It is simply a arrogant city/nation that attempts to control a much more powerful entity and gets thrown off. Hope this helps cast off the idea that it HAS to be some powerful rich western city/nation.
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Re: Woman Riding Beast - Map and Theory - Updated

Postby Jay Ross on Thu Jun 21, 2018 1:39 pm

Why is it that people look for a human solution to who the beasts are?

Why cannot the beasts be spiritual in nature, i.e. wicked fallen heavenly host "figures" who are able to exercise dominion over people, people groups, kingdoms, nations and empires and as such rise up out of the sea of mankind?

Daniel 7 can be understood to be the four winds i.e. spirits/heavenly hosts) stirring up the sea of humanity which manifests the respective beasts and their dominate characteristic by rising up out of the sea of humanity in a form that can be interrupted as representative of the beast.

As such the beasts' earthly influences ebbs and wanes as people, people groups, kingdoms, nations and empires move in and out of the influence/dominion of the respective beasts and the manifestation of the beasts rising up out of the sea of humanity collapses back down into the sea and leaves no evidence that that manifestation of the respective beast ever existed.

If we consider the third beast, its dominate characteristic is power/dominion. It also has four heads/manifestations in up to four different people, people groups/kingdoms, nations/empires at any one time and that these four manifestations of the beasts on the face of the earth even go to "war" against each other, just like they do in the heavenly realm. So their influence in the heavenly and earthly realms ebbs, flows and wanes, falls and rises up in other locations and places and time within the sea of humanity as the time allotted for the sea of humanity moves towards its final designated end when the allotted time is complete and comes to its final fulfilment.

Yes we can draw or see pretty pictures/diagrams which represent particular time snaps of the unfolding events as time move towards it present conclusions, but these pictures/diagrams of the earthly manifestations hides the true identity of who the actual spirits are that are described as the beasts who presently live within the heavenly realm.

In Revelation 12 we are told that the war in heaven between the righteous and fallen heavenly hosts will come to an end in the near future and that Satan and the other heavenly hosts, described as the five beasts, will be kicked out of heaven down to the earth and as foretold in Isaiah 24:21-22 they will be imprisoned for many days in a cistern/pit/the bottomless pit for 1,000 years before they will be released for a little while and rise up out of the earth, i.e. the cistern/pit/the bottomless pit as described in Revelation 13.

We have been hoodwinked into only considering the earthly manifestations of the wicked fallen heavenly hosts/beasts in heaven and send countless hours dreaming about or researching earthly history so as to identify only the earthly manifestations of the heavenly beasts and not give consideration to how they have influenced the sea of humanity to manifest them her on the face of the earth.

If we focused more on "how" they exercise heir influence over the sea of humanity, then we will not become surprised as to the manifestations of the beasts here on the earth. In Daniel 8 we are told that the little horn beast, i.e. a spiritual heavenly figure, will be given an army (of men) to go up against Jerusalem and God's holy Sanctuary and this army is still, at this present moment, in a different manifestation to earlier form in the past, actively engaged in trampling Jerusalem and God's Holy Sanctuary until the fullness in time of this particular prophecy is complete.

Perhaps we all need to rethink how we look at the scriptures and understand them.

Shalom
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Re: Woman Riding Beast - Map and Theory - Updated

Postby keithareilly on Thu Jun 21, 2018 5:15 pm

Kirthril,

Time will tell. You have a lot of conclusions in your theory.

The theory of this thread is simple and uses a literal, not a symbolic, interpretation.

Daniel 7 describes the beasts as kingdoms, human geopolitical entities.
Images of human geopolitical entities are represented using maps.

God tells us what the images of certain geopolitical entities look like.
In so doing, He tells us how to identify those geopolitical entities via maps.

The images I have provided are geopolitical in nature.
Because they correspond to the geopolitical imagery prophesied in Revelation 17, I have posted them.

Keith
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Re: Woman Riding Beast - Map and Theory - Updated

Postby keithareilly on Thu Jun 21, 2018 5:24 pm

Jay,

The reason I think these things have an earthly nature is because without them having an earthly nature we could not observe them. If we cannot observe them in our earthly setting, then they would not have the evidence prophecy provides us that God is true and real.

Having said that. I personally am of the opinion that things on this earth are shadows cast from the spiritual or heavenly realm. So in a sense, I think what we are viewing are shadows of what is actually happening elsewhere. Nevertheless, I am still here on earth so it is where I must observe things; even if those things are only shadows.

Keith
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Re: Woman Riding Beast - Map and Theory - Updated

Postby keithareilly on Sat Jun 23, 2018 8:24 am

Another update.

This update includes a change in colors and includes the names of the countries.
It has also been edited for the following changes:

1) The golden cup has been colored in. It is formed from a portion of Russia on the Baltic Sea and the country Latvia whose capital, Riga, is an international tourist area for prostitution. Hence the cup is full of fornication and abominations. Observe that Lithuania forms the hand holding the golden cup.

2) There are some islands in the Baltic Sea that I have colored in green (Emerald) to represent the jewelry which the harlot is described as wearing.

Click here for full image


Image
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Re: Woman Riding Beast - Map and Theory - Updated

Postby Mr Baldy on Sat Jun 23, 2018 8:48 am

keithareilly wrote:You are aware the ancient Babylonian empire was destroyed by Cyrus the Great. Thus was Babylon destroyed by Persia.You do know this has already happened. Correct?


keithareilly wrote:The British Empire was the largest empire in world history


Hi,

No knock against Kirthril - he brings up some great points.

But..... the whole idea of the Islamic paradigm preys on the fact that those who believe in this ideology will not do their homework.

The ongoing moment by Tayyip Erdoğan of Turkey is indeed very scary. But the fact remains that Historical Evidence still needs to be viewed and taken into consideration as it relates to Bible Prophecy.

We as believers in Christ who are watching, must not take every new and untested flyby night news story and attempt to make Bible Prophecy doctrine from it.
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Re: Woman Riding Beast - Map and Theory - Updated

Postby Jay Ross on Sat Jun 23, 2018 1:20 pm

We as believers in Christ who are watching, must not take every new and untested flyby night news story and attempt to make Bible Prophecy doctrine from it.


This is true for every expressed theory that people hold as being the only correct theory for recorded End Times Biblical Prophecy understanding.

Looking at images does not always bring understanding for me.

In the Daniel 7:1-12, which covers the present situation in the world at the moment, it tells us that beast number 4 in cahoots with the little horn "beast" will be speaking out great things against God just before they, the four beasts, the little horn and Satan, are removed from the scene for a period of time.

What we should be looking for at this present time are nations and people groups that are manifesting the characteristics of the four beasts and in particular those nations and people groups speaking out great things against God, and the dominate religious driving force within those nations and people groups.

Shalom
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Re: Woman Riding Beast - Map and Theory - Updated

Postby Mark F on Sun Jun 24, 2018 4:52 pm

keithareilly wrote:Folks,

I appreciate each of you have an end times theory and that this may not fit in with that theory.
Personally, I do not have an end times theory. So, I do not need to make individual prophecies fit into some larger theory.

This theory is based upon this fact:
A human geopolitical kingdom is a geographic entity which can be represented using a map.
Therefore, if a beast is a kingdom, a human geopolitical entity, then it can be viewed via a map.

Period. End of story. There are no exceptions to this rule.

Arguing this theory cannot be correct because it does not fit an end times view is not an argument against this theory.


Keith



Keith,
When you say this how are you locating the human geopolitical entities territory, by today or by where they were at the time of the prophecy.

IE: Rev 17:10 can only be understood if interpreted at the time that John wrote the passage. Or Psalm 83, or the list of nations in judgement in Ezekiel.

I am planning on going over this thread, been away from endtime study quite a while....need to get my nose in the book.

Thanks
Mark

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Find a seven year covenant Jesus makes with anybody plainly stated in Scripture.
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Re: Woman Riding Beast - Map and Theory - Updated

Postby keithareilly on Sun Jun 24, 2018 6:28 pm

Mark F,

I am not attempting to tie this prophecy to any other prophecy.
I do not try and tie prophecies together.
Why? because each prophecy can stand on its own. It may stand with others as well, I am not disputing that.
I just understand that each and every prophecy can stand on its own without having to understand a larger picture.
My experience with studying prophecy has been when I tie things together on clues or speculation, I have in the past blinded myself to individual prophecies and their meaning. Prophecies are like the materials used to build a building. Each material is a full complete entity on it own. They can be combined together to form a variety or structures and like materials people combine prophecies together resulting in a variety of end times theories. I am just not smart enough for that.

So,I am not concern about Ezekiel or Psalms with regards to Revelation 17. Revelation 17 can stand on its own by itself. It may be part of a bigger picture, but I am not concerned with that bigger picture in this thread. I am only concerned about this particular prophecy.

Ok, So to your questions...

Today.

A prophecy is always about a future event until that prophecy has come to pass. When a prophecy is originally prophesied, it is always about a future event. So, when I read Revelation 17, it is describing a future event from the time it was prophesied. I am watching to see if what we are seeing today is the fulfillment of this prophecy. When the Three wise men saw the fulfillment of a prophecy, they new to search for Christ and traveled for some time to do so. My perspective is: I am seeing the signs about a prophecy that I think might be coming to fruition.

Some will argue that Rev 17:10 must be viewed as: at the time of the writing of the prophecy five of the kings of the prophecy have already fallen. I do not have that view. I see prophecy as describing future events taking place over a period of time. In this case, that time period is defined by the rulers of the modern geopolitical entity the beast from the Abyss. Specifically, the time period of this prophecy is from ruler (king) number 1 through ruler number 7, then a little longer as one of the seven rulers again becomes the eighth ruler. Let's suppose the seven rulers of this prophecy represent the presidents of the EU Council. Then we can expect at least 7 different presidents, one or more presidents may be in office for consecutive terms. But one of the presidents will have non-consecutive terms as Benjamin Netanyahu has experienced non-consecutive terms as Prime Minister of Israel.

The prophecy gets more time specific in the following verses.
Rev 17:10,11

10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space. 11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

Here it describes the rulers and their reigns. First five rulers nothing notable. Pay attention during the reign of the 6th ruler. Things are going to happen. They will continue into the 7th ruler but he won't be around for the full term. Then one of the previous rulers will take his place. Perhaps a special election or something. The 8th ruler, one of the first 7, also dies in office or more likely the beast is destroyed and him along with it.

Now, Having said all that. Let me add something.
I think that when this prophecy was shown to John, the time frame of the image and the events were after the first five rulers had fallen and during the reign of the 6th ruler. So, that means that image I have presented is too soon, just as the image I had with the WEU 10 nation alliance was too soon. It may be that the 10 nation alliance will be different countries. It may be other things are wrong. However, when the reign of the 6th ruler is in place, the image should be updated to reflect events of that 6th ruler and that will be the correct image. So, until the 6th ruler is in place, this image is subject to changes.


Hope this answers your questions, Mark.

Thanks for your feed back.

Keith
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Re: Woman Riding Beast - Map and Theory - Updated

Postby Jay Ross on Sun Jun 24, 2018 8:19 pm

Keith,

If Rev 17 is in view with your map images, then the beast that you are attempting to draw has as yet not been imprisoned in the Bottomless pit, and when it is/they are, they will not rise up again for 1,000 years which in Rev 17 we are told that they will.
Revelation 17:7-8: - 7 But the angel said to me, "Why did you marvel? I will tell you the mystery of the woman and of the beast that carries her, which has the seven heads and the ten horns. 8 The beast that you saw was, and is not, and will ascend out of the bottomless pit and go to perdition. And those who dwell on the earth will marvel, whose names are not written in the Book of Life from the foundation of the world, when they see the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

This is still very much a distant future event

Now Babylon was remembered once more by the kings of the earth, and God, about 100 years ago and God's wrath will fall once more on her. If this is the case then Babylon will still be around in our distant future.

I for one cannot image what the topology of the earth will look like in our near future, i.e. in say 20-30 years time, let alone in a 1000 plus years time.

For me, I am not trying to solve what the meaning is for Rev 17 or what nations will inhabit the dominion/domain of the beast mentioned in Rev 17. Somehow it seems to be beyond my pay grade.

However, it is much easier to identify who the beast in Rev 17, as there are only two possibilities from which to guess. I have a much better chance of making the right guess as to my way of thinking both possibilities are probably right. I really cannot detect any difference from the witness' description.

Now what is it that I should be responding to at this present moment? Oh I know, does Isaiah 58 have something to do with what I should be doing and considering as being of the utmost importance for me right at this present time?

Shalom
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Re: Woman Riding Beast - Map and Theory - Updated

Postby keithareilly on Mon Jun 25, 2018 8:16 pm

http://www.oann.com/eu-shouldnt-drag-feet-on-enlargement-hungary-foreign-minister/

Even the most advanced aspirants in the Western Balkans, Serbia and Montenegro, are unlikely to join the bloc before 2025 at the earliest under current EU timelines.

Rev 17:9-10
9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth. 10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

One interpretation of Rev 17:9-10 is the 7 rulers of the hills upon which the woman sits "fall", that is, join the EU and are no longer independent countries. This interpretation implies the Balkan countries join the EU and that "five have fallen" means at some point in the future, five of those seven countries become EU members. The EU Lisbon treaty went into effect in December 1 2009. Croatia, a Balkan country, a country I originally counted as one of the seven hills, did not join the EU until July 1st, 2013. Perhaps four more countries will "fall" into EU membership. If Bosnia and Herzegovina are counted as one hill instead of two hills, then Croatia was the first hill to fall, one of those rulers may have already fallen.
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Re: Woman Riding Beast - Map and Theory - Updated

Postby mark s on Tue Jun 26, 2018 11:15 am

Mr Baldy wrote:
But..... the whole idea of the Islamic paradigm preys on the fact that those who believe in this ideology will not do their homework.


While I don't hold to the Islamic paradigm, I'd hardly characterize it as predatory. It's an idea some people have. And when I look at some of the threads on this board, I'd hardly say those who hold the view don't do homework. There are many reasons for which people hold the view. I, again, disagree, but I don't denigrate them for it.

But that's just me.

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ειπεν αυτη ο ιησους εγω ειμι η αναστασις και η ζωη ο πιστευων εις εμε καν αποθανη ζησεται
. . . saying to her Jesus, I AM the resurrection and the life, the one believing into Me even dying shall live . . .
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Re: Woman Riding Beast - Map and Theory - Updated

Postby keithareilly on Tue Jun 26, 2018 6:07 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jun/25/nine-eu-states-to-sign-off-on-joint-military-intervention-force

"Nine EU member states have agreed to establish a European military force for rapid deployment in times of crisis, an initiative which has won the backing of the UK as it seeks to maintain defence ties after Brexit." ...

"Since the election of its new government, Italy has backtracked on its initial support, but Rome has not ruled out the country’s future involvement." ...

"However, Nato’s secretary general, Jens Stoltenberg, who was in Luxembourg for discussions on European security and defence before a summit of the military alliance in Brussels next month, told reporters: “I welcome this initiative as I believe it can strengthen the readiness of forces. We need high readiness that is exactly what Nato is now focusing on."
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Re: Woman Riding Beast - Map and Theory - Updated

Postby keithareilly on Sat Jun 30, 2018 6:31 am

European Intervention Initiative

https://en.news-front.info/2018/06/29/macron-s-new-pan-european-force-undermines-both-nato-and-eu/

"The initiative is not tied to the EU’s Common European Defense, which includes the PESCO agreement as well as NATO. Great Britain has always opposed the idea of creating a European defense alliance, fearing it would undermine transatlantic unity. Now it has done an about-face, as the rifts within the US grow deeper.

The new force is to be much more efficient than anything else the EU has to offer, with a streamlined decision-making process that will permit a quick reaction time. Its relatively small number of members will give it more flexibility in comparison with the EU or NATO. For instance, the EU’s four multinational military battle groups that were created as far back as 2007 have never been deployed."

Some more interesting reading http://carnegieeurope.eu/strategiceurope/73246

An older existing 10 nation alliance that include Turkey. Eurocorps
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Re: Woman Riding Beast - Map and Theory - Updated

Postby keithareilly on Sat Jun 30, 2018 7:07 am

Ommayyad Caliphate

British Empire

Kithril and Mark F,

The Ottoman Empire and British Empire are my candidates for the fourth Beast of Daniel 7.
Notice that Both Occupied Persia.
Notice the Jaws on the Caliphate.

Keith
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Re: Woman Riding Beast - Map and Theory - Updated

Postby kirthril on Mon Jul 02, 2018 2:19 pm

keithareilly wrote:Ommayyad Caliphate

British Empire

Kithril and Mark F,

The Ottoman Empire and British Empire are my candidates for the fourth Beast of Daniel 7.
Notice that Both Occupied Persia.
Notice the Jaws on the Caliphate.

Keith


I agree the ottoman empire being the 4th and final beast. But interesting you bring up England.

What do I mean you say?

Well as you probably know, I consider the AC = Gog. That the Magog war and the final tribulational war are the same. And that the land of Magog is the area of Turkey to Central Asia. But im not here to argue that.

What I want to point out is that. I was watching some Christian videos on youtube involving extensive research on the "pre flood civilizations", post flood civilization, Nimrod and the origin of polytheistic religion, tower of babel etc. etc....

In one of those videos, it mentions that a group of people, Japethites, took their false gods to Europe, and eventually into England. And it turns out, the very first gods worshipped by the ancient peoples of England were Gog and Magog. It also turns out that Gog and Magog were not just "gods" but Giants, nephililim who existed post-flood.
.............

If this is indeed true. Could it be, that the land of Gog/Magog (ottoman empire) where they originated from might also have an end times alliance with the nation that later worshiped 2 nephilim by the same name?

hmmmmmm.............
.


ps: I even took a quick google/wiki search, and indeed, Ancient British civilization worshiped 2 Giants called Gog/Magog.
"It is not who I am...But what I do that defines me" -Batman, Batman Begins
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Re: Woman Riding Beast - Map and Theory - Updated

Postby keithareilly on Mon Jul 02, 2018 6:34 pm

Kirthril,

You might also find this interesting.

The Alter that was in Pergamos, when Pergamos was labelled the throne of Satan, is now in a museum in Germany.
The relief on the Alter is the story of Gigantomachy.

Interestingly ...
The museum housing the Alter arose between 1910 and 1930, 20 years.
Adolf Hitler moved to Germany, arose between 1913 and 1933, 20 years.
The Museum has been in Germany during both WWI and WWII.
The Museum also contains a reconstructed Ishtar Gate of Ancient Babylon.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pergamon_Altar
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Re: Woman Riding Beast - Map and Theory - Updated

Postby kirthril on Wed Jul 04, 2018 12:14 pm

keithareilly wrote:Kirthril,

You might also find this interesting.

The Alter that was in Pergamos, when Pergamos was labelled the throne of Satan, is now in a museum in Germany.
The relief on the Alter is the story of Gigantomachy.

Interestingly ...
The museum housing the Alter arose between 1910 and 1930, 20 years.
Adolf Hitler moved to Germany, arose between 1913 and 1933, 20 years.
The Museum has been in Germany during both WWI and WWII.
The Museum also contains a reconstructed Ishtar Gate of Ancient Babylon.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pergamon_Altar


yes I know about the Altar of Pergamum in Germany. But Germany isn't going to keep it much longer. I don't know if you know but Turkey has be undergoing a great and monumental restoration of ancient monuments and ruins. Spending billions to refurbish and restore ancient monuments. They have been asking (putting it nicely) for other nations to return ancient ottoman artifacts and relics or anything else with a connection to Asia Minor.

Guess what they have asked Germany to return....
"It is not who I am...But what I do that defines me" -Batman, Batman Begins
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Re: Woman Riding Beast - Map and Theory - Updated

Postby keithareilly on Sat Jul 07, 2018 3:30 pm

Mark F
Rev 17:10 can only be understood if interpreted at the time that John wrote the passage. ...


Revelation 17:9-11 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
Here is the mind which has wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits, 10 and they are seven kings; five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; and when he comes, he must remain a little while. 11 The beast which was and is not, is himself also an eighth and is one of the seven, and he goes to destruction.

These passages can also be viewed as:
There will be, in the future, seven kings, seven rulers, after the first five of those rulers have have reigned, during the reign of the sixth ruler, the focal period of the prophecy begins. The overall period of the prophecy covers eight reigns, from reign number one through reign number eight. We are also told the reign of the seventh ruler is relatively short.
While there are eight reigns, there are only seven rulers; one of those seven rulers is removed from reign then reinstated to reign as ruler during the eighth reign. Thus we are told we have seven rulers covering a period of time made up of eight reigns.


Now, what is most interesting are:
1) The eighth reign is accomplished by one of the seven rulers,
2) The ruler of the eighth reign must be a different ruler than the ruler of the seventh reign else it would still be the seventh reign.
3) So, the eighth reign must ruled by one of first six rulers which is logically equivalent to one of the seven rulers; but, not the seventh.

Therefore, If we assume that at the time of the prophecy's writing the sixth ruler was already in place, Then this prophecy must be a historical event. Why? because the eighth ruler must be one of the first six rulers. Therefore, the ruler of the eighth reign would have been alive at the time the prophecy was written not at some point in the future. If this is true, then this prophecy must be historical.

Therefore, if Mystery Babylon is an end time prophecy, then the idea that five of the rulers has already fallen and the sixth ruler was in place at the time of this writing must be a false conclusion.

Therefore, it is not correct to state:
Rev 17:10 can only be understood if interpreted at the time that John wrote the passage. ...
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Re: Woman Riding Beast - Map and Theory - Updated

Postby keithareilly on Sat Jul 07, 2018 10:32 pm

Some More Interesting Information which may pertain to the seven kings.

The list below is of countries of the Macron Proposed Alliance currently ruled by monarchs. Interestingly, France is not a monarchy; yet, Emmanuel Macron, the president of France, is a prince. Macron is a Co-Prince of the micro-state, Principality of Andorra, which is not a member of the EU. So, while we have only 6 nations in the ten nation military alliance that are monarchies, we do have seven monarchs ruling within the ten nation military alliance. Currently, only two of the monarchs is female, Queen Elizabeth II who was born in 1926, Prince Charles is her successor, and Queen Margrethe II of Denmark.

None of the micro-states are EU members. Of the micro-states only Andorra, Liechtenstein, Monaco, and the Vatican are monarchies. Of the micro-states, only Malta and Monaco have boarders on the Mediterranean, that is on the Abyss or bottomless pit from which the eighth ruler ascends. So, Just as Emanuel Macron is a monarch ruling France, we may see France yet ruled by another monarch from Monaco (Monaco is bordered by France on three sides). Emanuel Macron was born in Amiens, France, which is divided by the Somme river.

Spain, Italy, Denmark and France, have Islands in the seas. It might be ruler number eight was born on one of those islands and is therefore from the abyss or bottomless pit.

1) England
2) Belgium
3) Denmark
4) Luxembourg
5) Netherlands
6) Spain
7) France via Principality of Andorra Prince Emmanuel Macron

The Lisbon treaty went into effect 1 December 2009.
The following monarchs have taken up rule since the treaty was put in place:
1) Emanuel Macron - Principality of Andorra -14 May 2017
2) William Alexander - Netherlands - 30 April 2013
3) King Felipe VI - Spain - 19 June 2014
4) Pope Frances - Vatican City - 13 March 2013
5) Prince Charles - United Kingdom - In progress beginning April 2018

Thus, since the treaty was enacted, 4 have fallen, one is in the process of replacing his mother.

Edited to correct number of female monarchs.
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Re: Woman Riding Beast - Map and Theory - Updated

Postby keithareilly on Mon Jul 09, 2018 1:23 pm

The prophecies about the beasts, dragon, woman riding the beast have something in common.
The receiver of the prophecy was first shown an image. Then what he saw was explained to him.

Therefore, the context of the explanation is the image.
Many people want to interpret these prophecies without the context of the image.

I think interpreting an image based prophecy without the image is a contextual error.

Keith
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Re: Woman Riding Beast - Map and Theory - Updated

Postby keithareilly on Sat Jul 14, 2018 10:39 am

Keith Wrote
The Lisbon treaty went into effect 1 December 2009.
The following monarchs have taken up rule since the treaty was put in place:
1) Emanuel Macron - Principality of Andorra -14 May 2017
2) William Alexander - Netherlands - 30 April 2013
3) King Felipe VI - Spain - 19 June 2014
4) Pope Frances - Vatican City - 13 March 2013
5) Prince Charles - United Kingdom - In progress beginning April 2018

Thus, since the treaty was enacted, 4 have fallen, one is in the process of replacing his mother.


The EU was not created via the Lisbon treaty. It was created from the Maastricht Treaty in 1992 and went into effect in November 1st, 1993. Furthermore, The Vatican is not a member of the EU so it should not be included. King Philippe of Belgium also took reign in 2013; I missed that one. While The Principality of Andorra is not part of the EU, France is, therefore, as long as Macron is president of France, he is a reigning monarch in the 10 nation military alliance. Interestingly, Macron won the French Election on May 7th 2017 and became a Prince on May 14th 2017, one week after winning the election.

There are two other monarchies in the EU member countries, Denmark and Sweden. Sweden is not part of the ten nation military alliance. Denmark is part of the alliance. Both current monarchs were reigning prior to the establishment of the EU in 1993.

Only Six of the the ten military allied countries, are monarchies; however, Luxembourg was part of the WEU 10 nation military alliance and it changed monarchs in the year 2000, after the EU was established in 1993, and before 2009, when the Lisbon Treaty ended the WEU 10 nation military alliance. So, Luxembourg was, but is no longer, part of the military alliance and it did have a monarch fall while it was part of the military alliance. Interestingly, the only nations to have lost monarchs are those involved with the military alliance and only one monarchy associated with the military alliance, Denmark, has yet to have a monarch fall. Denmark was not part of the WEU ten nation military alliance but is part of the Macron proposed military alliance effective this year, 2018. Essentially, Luxembourg's 10 nation military allied monarchy, under the WEU, was replaced by Denmark's monarchy, under the Macron 10 nation military alliance.

The following EU Countries Monarchs have been established since the EU was established November 1st, 1993:

1) Luxembourg, October 7th 2000, Grande Duke Henry, Not Current, but Former, WEU Military alliance country
2) Netherlands, 30 April 2013, William Alexander, Current and WEU Military Alliance country
3) Belgium, July 21 2013, King Philippe, Current and WEU Military Alliance country
4) Spain, 19 June 2014, King Felipe VI, Current and WEU Military Alliance Country
5) France (Principality of Andorra), 14 May 2017, Emanuel Macron, Current and WEU Military Alliance Country
6) United Kingdom, In transition beginning April 2018, Prince Charles, Current and WEU Military Alliance Country

The EU Monarchy Status to date:
Five Monarchs have fallen, One who is, Queen Elizabeth, is in the process of being replaced by one who is yet to come, Prince Charles. Denmark, is the only EU military alliance country that has a monarch who has not been replaced since the establishment of the EU in 1993. Sweden, the only EU country with a monarchy which is not part of the military alliance, has not had their monarch replaced since before the EU was established in 1993.
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Re: Woman Riding Beast - Map and Theory - Updated

Postby keithareilly on Sat Jul 14, 2018 7:20 pm

Emanuel Macron expresses concern of civil war in Europe.

Civil war between the EU beast countries and the EU harlot countries is part of the revelation 17 prophecy.

Rev 17:16 NASB
"And the ten horns which you saw, and the beast, these will hate the harlot and will make her desolate and naked, and will eat her flesh and will burn her up with fire.

Click Here for Map of Beast and Harlot Nations
Last edited by keithareilly on Mon Jul 23, 2018 7:18 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Woman Riding Beast - Map and Theory - Updated

Postby keithareilly on Mon Jul 16, 2018 9:27 am

Previously, I colored in Latvia as the Golden Cup on the map.

Revelation 17:4-5
4 The woman was clothed in purple and scarlet, and adorned with gold and precious stones and pearls, having in her hand a gold cup full of abominations and of the unclean things of her immorality, 5 and on her forehead a name was written, a mystery, “BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.”

Articles
1) Latvia became the capital of the European fornication 07.07.2018
2) You Don’t Have to Turn on the Red Light: Human Trafficking, Sex Tourism and Prostitution in Eastern Europe 11.12.2010
3) 'Stop Sex-terrorism!' campaign hopes to change Riga's seedy image 6.15.2007
4) Buy Bye Beauty Documentary Film - February 2001 (Wikipedia not the actual video)
Last edited by keithareilly on Tue Jul 17, 2018 12:15 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Woman Riding Beast - Map and Theory - Updated

Postby Ready1 on Mon Jul 16, 2018 12:08 pm

Your link does not work...(Click here for map...)
Just observing.

E.
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Re: Woman Riding Beast - Map and Theory - Updated

Postby keithareilly on Mon Jul 16, 2018 1:22 pm

Ready1

Try it now. I have trouble sharing Google pics. Really Annoying.
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Re: Woman Riding Beast - Map and Theory - Updated

Postby Ready1 on Mon Jul 16, 2018 3:03 pm

Works fine now.
:grin:
Just observing.

E.
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Re: Woman Riding Beast - Map and Theory - Updated

Postby keithareilly on Mon Jul 16, 2018 4:47 pm

European Union will be hostile to Christians and perhaps Jews; it may precipitate war or it may force Christians from the EU

Revelation 17:6
6 And I saw the woman drunk with the blood of the [d]saints, and with the blood of the witnesses of Jesus.
Revelation 18:4-5
4 I heard another voice from heaven, saying, “Come out of her, my people, so that you will not participate in her sins and receive of her plagues; 5 for her sins have [h]piled up as high as heaven, and God has remembered her iniquities.

Currently, some of the Harlot countries are trying to re-establish their Christian identities but are getting resistance for the the EU.
Something Rises in the EU East

"European nations like Hungary and Poland are reasserting their Christian culture, posing a bigger threat to Brussels than Brexit ever will."

"The continuing European migrant crisis has exposed deep divisions between the Commission and the eastern states. Poland and Hungary have both been referred to the European Court of Justice after unequivocally refusing to take in migrants under the EU’s mandatory quota system."

Jews Are Fleeing France in Droves As Anti-Semitism Goes Unchecked

"University of Paris Dr. Guy Millière wrote in the Gatestone Institute that the Jewish population has declined from 500,000 in 2000 to below 400,000 today, as numerous Jewish families have to “sell their homes well below the market price” in order to leave the country or seek refuge in a safer neighborhood."
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Re: Woman Riding Beast - Map and Theory - Updated

Postby Mr Baldy on Mon Jul 16, 2018 6:49 pm

Hi Keith,

I have been tracking what you are posting. What are your thoughts concerning an EU Antichrist?
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Re: Woman Riding Beast - Map and Theory - Updated

Postby keithareilly on Mon Jul 16, 2018 7:55 pm

I don't know Mr. Baldy.

The second angel talks about the fall of Babylon the Great, the third talks about the mark of the beast. However, the Dragon, Beast from the Sea and Beast from the Land are mentioned prior to Mystery Babylon. So, it appears the beast associated with the 666 may be around before and after Mystery Babylon geopolitical entity. Interestingly, it does not say the beast from the Abyss was destroyed. It says Mystery Babylon is destroyed. So, could the beast from the Abyss be the Beast from the Sea? Maybe. After all, Abyss means the deep waters.

It would be nice if there were a person on this site good with languages that could convert English to Hebrew and Greek then look at the current Monarchs and their successors and see what gematria values result from them. It would be interesting. I don't really expect any 666 or 616's but it would be interesting.

Also, I am not yet able to identify which theory is about the kings. Is it the monarchs? Is it the rulers of the EU commission? Is it the High representative? Is it the fall of the Balkan countries as they join the EU. I don't know. I have to watch and wait. I can see the answers once it is over; but, I have to guess now because it is not yet over.

What I can say is this. After the Fall of Mystery Babylon, the third angel comes and tells us to be wary of the mark of the beast. How long is it between those two events? I do not know.

Edited to Add:
The second beast, the beast from the Earth, is the one that established the mark. It also sets up an image to the first beast; the beast from the sea. If the 10 nation alliance is the beast from the sea and if the wound the beast suffers is a consequence of the EU civil war, then we may be looking for another beast arising after the civil war that defends the beast from the sea nations. So if we are still here after civil war, I would be looking for another country or alliance, possibly current or future, that defends the EU.

Keith
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Re: Woman Riding Beast - Map and Theory - Updated

Postby keithareilly on Tue Jul 17, 2018 6:51 am

Mr Baldy,

A couple of thoughts to share. I do not think the USA, through NATO will engage in an EU Civil war. The 10 nations will certainly have access to NATO resources; but, I do not think the USA will authorize a NATO based engagement in an EU Civil War. The result will likely be a change in the geography of the European Nations. We may see Russia creating a new iron curtain. We may see the 10 nation alliance creating a new country. While a civil war is happening, NATO resources will not be available to defend against any Chinese actions. China may do a lot of land grabbing during an EU civil war. USA wont likely be willing to try stop certain land grabs without European involvement.

I think we will have a new world map after an EU civil war.


With regard to fire coming form the heavens. Bombs and other things have been dropped from planes and missiles have been around for while now. Many countries have them. If a country were to setup a space defense program whereby they took control of space by knocking out others countries satellites and had weapons that could prevent other satellites and space weapons from being placed in space. And if that country were to create space weapons that could attack ground and sea forces on earth, then that country could rule all of Earth by having weapons already positioned in key orbits that can immediately suppressed any resistance. It might also be that that country would suppress resistance not only through weapons, but also through tagging individuals as allies or foes. It is hard to tag foes. It is easier to tag allies, subject, citizens; once accomplished those not tagged would then be foes. So, the mark of the beast might be designed not just for commercial uses but for political uses. If you have the mark, you are an ally, a citizen, a subject, and are free to engage in commerce, enter publicly electronically monitored buildings, schools, shopping centers and the like. Without the mark, you are a rebel, a public enemy, an enemy of the state, who might be shunned or have no rights of any kind.

Currently, three countries have the potential to become a sole space power. USA, CHINA, RUSSIA.

Keith
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Re: Woman Riding Beast - Map and Theory - Updated

Postby keithareilly on Sun Jul 22, 2018 3:43 pm

Macron and Salvini face off over Continent’s future

"A new Macron-centered political group would draw on the most progressive of the liberal ALDE parliamentary group, “and all those who don’t identify themselves with the EPP or Socialist forces,” said Pieyre-Alexandre Anglade, a French member of parliament from En Marche and one of Macron’s point men in preparing the 2019 election campaign. “What we offer is an alternative to populists,” he said.

For Salvini, the solution is not more Europe. It’s less. His ambition is to wrest powers back from Brussels to the national capitals — and, crucially, “protect external borders against illegal migration,” said the League’s Marco Zanni, one of the members of the European Parliament Salvini has charged with expanding the League’s contacts in other Euroskeptic parties."

Italy is supposed to be one of the members of the 10 nation military alliance; but, they are on hold. Italy has moved toward nationalism, France is for Euroism.
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Re: Woman Riding Beast - Map and Theory - Updated

Postby Mr Baldy on Mon Jul 23, 2018 5:28 pm

Hi Keith,

Thank you for responding to my question.

Now, I want to respond to a few things that you have mentioned.

keithareilly wrote:A couple of thoughts to share. I do not think the USA, through NATO will engage in an EU Civil war. The 10 nations will certainly have access to NATO resources; but, I do not think the USA will authorize a NATO based engagement in an EU Civil War. The result will likely be a change in the geography of the European Nations. We may see Russia creating a new iron curtain. We may see the 10 nation alliance creating a new country. While a civil war is happening, NATO resources will not be available to defend against any Chinese actions. China may do a lot of land grabbing during an EU civil war. USA wont likely be willing to try stop certain land grabs without European involvement.


Keith,

It is my opinion that "IF" the EU will become the Fourth and Final Empire that was prophesized in Daniel 7:23; as I believe it will, then I don't think that the USA or NATO will be a factor. I don't believe that the geography of the EU Nations will change either. When the WEU came to power and was subsequently defunct; handing over it's power to the EU, I personally believe that we saw the 10 Nations prophesized in Daniel 9:24 and the fulfilment of Revelation 17:12-13.

Now before I get too far ahead of myself, let me provide Scripture to back up what I have mentioned, for those who may be either new to this site, or are interested in End Time Prophecy.

Here is Daniel 7:23 -

Daniel 7:23 - New American Standard Bible (NASB)

“Thus he said: ‘The fourth beast will be a fourth kingdom on the earth, which will be different from all the other kingdoms and will devour the whole earth and tread it down and crush it.


As you know, this "fourth kingdom" is the "Final Kingdom" before the Return of Christ.

Here is Revelation 17:12-13 -

Revelation 17:12-13 - New American Standard Bible (NASB)

12) The ten horns which you saw are ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but they receive authority as kings with the beast for one hour. 13) These have one purpose, and they give their power and authority to the beast.


Now, as you know the WEU consisted of 10 European Nations out of the 27 before they became defunct - I believe it was in 2011. It's very uncanny that the EU rising back to power as it did in the day that it was known as the Roman Empire would have 10 Nations declared as the WEU - or Western European Union - who would in return give up it's sovereignty as far as it's Military & Political association to the EU as a whole. You really can't make this stuff up, yet it has continued to be ignored by those who study bible prophecy, and have looked to other means to satisfy their thirst for Bible Prophecy news as it did not "fit the proverbial mold" for what they in their own imaginations were looking for.

Moving on...……….

I believe that Putin may be GOG - so in you mentioning Russia creating a "new iron curtain" may be correct. More on The EU having a civil war, and China in the next response. :mrgreen:
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Re: Woman Riding Beast - Map and Theory - Updated

Postby Mr Baldy on Mon Jul 23, 2018 5:50 pm

keithareilly wrote:We may see the 10 nation alliance creating a new country.


I don't know what you really mean by the aforementioned statement. I don't see a future 10 Nation Alliance - as I believe that it has already occurred. Even if this were true in what you have presented, any future so-called "10 Nation Alliance" would be in contrast to what is written in Daniel 7:23-24.

As I have previously posted...… the 10 horns described come from this 4th and Final Empire and only last for an "hour" before handing their power over to this BEAST SYSTEM as mentioned in Revelation 17:12-13.

keithareilly wrote: I do not think the USA, through NATO will engage in an EU Civil war.

keithareilly wrote:I do not think the USA will authorize a NATO based engagement in an EU Civil War.

keithareilly wrote:While a civil war is happening, NATO resources will not be available to defend against any Chinese actions.

keithareilly wrote: China may do a lot of land grabbing during an EU civil war.


Ok Keith...……..first of all, I must ask you - why do you think that there will ever be an EU Civil War :humm:

My understanding is that the EU is the Revived Roman Empire - and will be the Fourth and Final Empire that has been prophesized by Daniel (as mentioned) that will "trample over the entire earth." So, if the EU is this Empire, and although they will be as "iron & clay" as mentioned in Daniel 2:43 - I see no indication that a "Civil War" could ever occur.

Can you please explain your theory on this "EU Civil War" you have mentioned - and where you are getting this idea?

Now in closing, as far as the Chinese are concerned.....well, that could be Armageddon - but I want to see your thoughts on the aforementioned thus far. :mrgreen:
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Re: Woman Riding Beast - Map and Theory - Updated

Postby Mr Baldy on Mon Jul 23, 2018 6:30 pm

keithareilly wrote:I think we will have a new world map after an EU civil war.


Again Keith - I would really love to learn where you are coming up with this idea. I don't see this ever happening; however, I do see the future Antichrist uprooting 3 of the 10 horns in order to unite this Final 4th Empire - or
BEAST SYSTEM. (Daniel 7:8)

keithareilly wrote: So, the mark of the beast might be designed not just for commercial uses but for political uses.


Glad you mentioned the "Mark of the Beast"...…..

My opinion of the Mark of the Beast is that it could be an "ideology" that those who dwell on the Earth "buy into" or receive into their minds - meaning "forehead" or "right hand - meaning their will to serve this BEAST SYSTEM in order to buy, sell, or trade. The Bible never identifies what this "Mark" actually is. Therefore, with the Book of Revelation being so very highly symbolic - I don't rule this particular theory or notion out. I'm not so sure that this will be a very literal physical mark - despite all the nonsensical books and theory that have been mentioned about it. :mrgreen:

keithareilly wrote:If you have the mark, you are an ally, a citizen, a subject, and are free to engage in commerce, enter publicly electronically monitored buildings, schools, shopping centers and the like. Without the mark, you are a rebel, a public enemy, an enemy of the state, who might be shunned or have no rights of any kind.


If a "Physical Mark" is what Scripture means as far as what the BEAST SYSTEM requires - then I totally agree.

keithareilly wrote:Edited to Add:The second beast, the beast from the Earth, is the one that established the mark. It also sets up an image to the first beast; the beast from the sea. If the 10 nation alliance is the beast from the sea and if the wound the beast suffers is a consequence of the EU civil war, then we may be looking for another beast arising after the civil war that defends the beast from the sea nations. So if we are still here after civil war, I would be looking for another country or alliance, possibly current or future, that defends the EU.


I partially agree with you here...… I'll explain the way that I see the BEAST SYSTEM - (Sea & Earth)

I believe that the First Beast mentioned in Revelation 13 is the Revived Roman Empire - or the 4th and Final Kingdom that will devour the Whole Earth as mentioned in Daniel 7. It is the Beast of the Sea - or a Political; Economical; Militarily Powerful - BEAST SYSTEM - United as a group of Nations.

The Second Beast mentioned in Revelation 13 is the Antichrist - or the Beast from the Earth. He will be responsible for causing those on the Earth to fall in order with this BEAST SYSTEM - which is working behind the power of Satan through him. The "Mark" that he causes ALL to receive could be an "allegiance" to fall in line with the BEAST SYSTEM by way of something electronically tangible such as a documentation of sworn allegiance in a computer data base instead of something bodily & very intrusively physical such as a "computer chip" or "tattoo" in the forehead or right hand.

In closing, for years I have believed that the "Mark of the Beast" would be something like a "computer chip" implanted in the right hand or forehead - or a an even more modern version of a "RFID Tattoo" imbedded in the right hand or forehead. But with the Book of Revelation being so very, very symbolic - I am just not so sure. The reason I think this way is because Jesus Himself said that He would come (Return) at a time that we will not expect. So if all this implanting in the forehead or right hand is going on.....then we would know that His Return is soon. I don't think His Return will be like that. I think that it will catch just about all who dwell on the Earth by surprise - even those who are believers.
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Re: Woman Riding Beast - Map and Theory - Updated

Postby keithareilly on Mon Jul 23, 2018 7:18 pm

HI Mr. Baldy,

As you know I do not have an end times theory. Consequently, I do not attempt to link prophecies to form a theory.

This theory is based only upon the vision of Mystery Babylon. I am not attempting to tie anything else into it.
Is the EU the fourth Beast of Daniel 7? I do not know. Neither do I put forward a theory that it is or is not. I simply have no opinion on that.

Why do I think there will be an EU civil war? Because the prophecy says
Revelation 17:16
And the ten horns which you saw, and the beast, these will hate the harlot and will make her desolate and naked, and will eat her flesh and will burn her up with fire.

I interpret these verses in the context of the map to mean: The countries that form the beast will wage economic and then military war on the countries that form the Harlot. Because all the countries, those forming the beast, and those forming the harlot, are EU countries, this means civil war in the EU.

As a general rule people read prophecies and try to tie everything together to form an end times theory. I try to avoid that. This study is not labelled an end times prophecy study. It is limited to the Woman Riding the Beast prophecy. Maybe the woman riding the beast is an end times prophecy, maybe it is not. I do not know. And I do not speculate.

Look at the map on the link below. Identify the countries that form the beast rising from the Abyss (ocean), then identify the countries that form the woman sitting on the seven hills. If the beast hates the prostitute and eventually burns her with fire, then I think that is describing war between the countries forming the beast and the countries forming the woman.

The context of The woman riding the beast prophecy is the image that was seen. Everything describes and explained is about the image seen. Without the image we do not have the context for the prophecy. Maybe the map represents the image seen, maybe it does not. Time will tell.

In closing, let me point out that the United States experienced a civil war in the early 1860's; subsequently, almost a 100 years later, after WWII, in the early to mid 1900's, the USA became a world power. Civil war in the EU does not rule out the EU becoming a world power. We do not know how long this prophecy will last. The EU was established in November 1993. It has been in existence for almost 25 years. The US constitution went into effect in 1787, less than 100 years later, the USA experienced civil war. Also note, after Babylon has fallen there still exists the opportunity to accept the mark of the beast. And it may very well be an ideology. The important point is the destruction of Mystery Babylon is not the end the beast kingdom else the mark would not need to still be warned against after her destruction. (The second angel talks about her destruction, the third warns about the mark.)


Click Here for Map of Beast and Harlot Nations

Keith
Last edited by keithareilly on Sat Jul 28, 2018 11:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Woman Riding Beast - Map and Theory - Updated

Postby Mr Baldy on Wed Jul 25, 2018 5:00 am

Hi Keith,

Couple of points here.....

keithareilly wrote:This study is not labelled an end times prophecy study. It is limited to the Woman Riding the Beast prophecy. Maybe the woman riding the beast is an end times prophecy, maybe it is not. I do not know. And I do not speculate.


While you do not speculate (and I most certainly respect your view) - but the truth of the matter is, you absolutely cannot have one without the other. Meaning, you cannot limit a study identifying the "Woman Riding the Beast" and not associate it to End Time Prophecy. As a matter of fact - the entire Book of Revelation in itself is ALL related to End Time Prophecy as it is REVEALS the Coming of the Lord. There is simply no way to put it.

keithareilly wrote: The important point is the destruction of Mystery Babylon is not the end the beast kingdom else the mark would not need to still be warned against after her destruction. (The second angel talks about her destruction, the third warns about the mark.)


Keith - respectfully, Rome wasn't built in a day - and neither will this End Time Beast System. There are residual effects for many years after any major destruction of any Empire. You must remember that the Book of Revelation talks about Two Beasts - One is an Empire - from the Sea (in my opinion) and One is a Man - from the Earth.

I think that it is important to know that the timing of when the Mark of the Beast will be required is not mentioned in Scripture; however, we know that it when it will be required it is the Second Beast (MAN) that is responsible for implementing this mandate. We also know that from Scripture this man (Antichrist) will be alive at the Return of Christ

Revelation 19:20 - New American Standard Bible (NASB)

Doom of the Beast and False Prophet

And the beast was seized, and with him the false prophet who performed the signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image; these two were thrown alive into the lake of fire which burns with brimstone.


*Note: In your mentioning that the EU may have a Civil War - that implies bloodshed. I see that being highly improbable in that although they have a lot of infighting on social-economic issues, (which will be the coming goal of a strong EU High Representative to fix) - they would be United Militarily.
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Re: Woman Riding Beast - Map and Theory - Updated

Postby mark s on Wed Jul 25, 2018 10:52 am

I'd like to make mention that "Rome might be built in a day" if indeed worldwide cataclysmic earthquake hits at the beginning, at about the same time as the rapture, at the same time as the Gog/Magog invasion, governments topple, millions missing, economies crash, services are cut, remaining services overwhelmed, and look! Here's someone who's picking up the pieces!

And the beast comes to power across the globe, now bounded into 10 new regions, each with it's king.

Much love!
mark
ειπεν αυτη ο ιησους εγω ειμι η αναστασις και η ζωη ο πιστευων εις εμε καν αποθανη ζησεται
. . . saying to her Jesus, I AM the resurrection and the life, the one believing into Me even dying shall live . . .
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Re: Woman Riding Beast - Map and Theory - Updated

Postby keithareilly on Wed Jul 25, 2018 6:35 pm

Mr Baldy,

*Note: In your mentioning that the EU may have a Civil War - that implies bloodshed. I see that being highly improbable in that although they have a lot of infighting on social-economic issues, (which will be the coming goal of a strong EU High Representative to fix) - they would be United Militarily.


Actually, my perspective is they will have civil war. My perspective is the prophecy is saying they will have an actual civil war. For many, that is not hard to fathom as both World Wars involve Europe fighting each other.

And actually, only the ten nations are aligned; Not the entire EU. The ten nations are aligned on one side; where are the rest of the EU nations? On the other side. At least that is what I understand when interpreting the explanation of the image, if the map is indeed the image. If the map is not the image, then this entire topic is worthless. Which it may be.

In general, I think you have an end times theory and what I am saying I see in this prophecy is not consistent with that theory. That's OK, I may be wrong, we both may be wrong. My point here is to say what I see, and why I see it. People do not have to agree. Honestly, I don't think any one agrees. That's OK.

I am enjoying the discussion and your questions make me consider things I have not thought about before. So, let me share some thoughts precipitated by your questions.

A Beast is both a geopolitical entity and the person ruling the entity. So, the ten nation alliance is the beast rising from Abyss which is what I see when I look at the MAP. Each ruler of the Beast is also a Beast, thus Emanuel Macron is a Beast as he is a primary for creating the the current 10 nation alliance. There will be a person with whom the ten nations align and to whom they subjugate themselves. That person will also be a Beast as he will be the ruler of the ten nations military for the time of war. Remember, he is certainly going to be the ruler of the ten nations military; but, not necessarily the ruler of the entire EU. He might be the ruler of the entire EU, but, the prophecy does not say that. It says he is the ruler of the ten nation alliance. Abraham Lincoln was the President of the USA and all states prior to and after the civil war. But, he was not the president of the confederacy during the civil war. So, the description we have in the Rev 17 prophecy is he is the ruler of the ten nation alliance, not necessarily the entire EU. But, he may be the president of the EU Commission, the High Representative, or to some other person or role.

Assuming you are correct about the Beast from the Abyss also being the beast from the Sea, which I am not saying is correct, just assuming for conversation purposes, then, after the war, the eighth king, who is also one of the seven, will be exalted by the Beast from the Land and an image of him will be created. Not unreasonable that he would be exalted.

Now, do I think these things are true? Not sure. These are thoughts that have been precipitated from your questions and your assumption the EU is the Beast from the Sea/Land. In reality, I do not know. I can only make guesses based upon the available information. I will not know for certain until these things become history.
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Re: Woman Riding Beast - Map and Theory - Updated

Postby keithareilly on Thu Jul 26, 2018 10:07 pm

Exclusive: Polls Point To Anti-EU Surge In European Parliament

"BRUSSELS (Reuters) – Eurosceptic parties could expand their strength in the European Parliament by over 60 percent at elections next May, adding pressure on EU leaders pressing for deeper integration after Brexit, a survey by Reuters of national opinion polls suggests.

The snapshot of polls, conducted by a variety of bodies in the 27 states that will remain members of the European Union after Britain quits next year, is rough and ready. New party alignments in the next EU legislature will depend heavily on horse-trading after next year’s elections. But the data indicate a clear strengthening for movements outside the old mainstream."

"Critics of the EU have accuse those mainstream parties of forming a defensive grand coalition supporting the executive European Commission in expanding EU powers. "
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Re: Woman Riding Beast - Map and Theory - Updated

Postby Mr Baldy on Fri Jul 27, 2018 6:25 am

Hi Keith,

First - lets backtrack for clarification...…

In your theory you have referenced the map you have provided and it appears that you have determined that 10 Nations will arise to fit the prophecy set forth in Revelation 17. Well, I'm just not so sure of that. Perhaps you have mentioned it before earlier in this thread - but I would like to know how you came of with this map - and how is it associated with the "Beast and Harlot" Nations?

It is to my understanding that the 10 Nations will arise from the Revived Roman Empire - which does not include some of the Nations from the map you provided - and have left out others. Here is what Revelation 17:7-13 has to say:

Revelation 17:7-13 - New American Standard Bible (NASB)

7) And the angel said to me, “Why do you wonder? I will tell you the mystery of the woman and of the beast that carries her, which has the seven heads and the ten horns.

8) “The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is about to come up out of the abyss and go to destruction. And those who dwell on the earth, whose name has not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, will wonder when they see the beast, that he was and is not and will come. 9) Here is the mind which has wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits, 10) and they are seven kings; five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; and when he comes, he must remain a little while. 1)1 The beast which was and is not, is himself also an eighth and is one of the seven, and he goes to destruction. 12) The ten horns which you saw are ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but they receive authority as kings with the beast for one hour. 130 These have one purpose, and they give their power and authority to the beast
.


keithareilly wrote:Actually, my perspective is they will have civil war. My perspective is the prophecy is saying they will have an actual civil war. For many, that is not hard to fathom as both World Wars involve Europe fighting each other.


There is a difference between the Europe of the past and the EU of today. Today's EU is united. They have one currency; the borders are not restricted - and they have a President and High Representative that are leaders of these 27 Nations. Again, although they have infighting and will behave as an "Iron & Clay" mixture - I don't see an EU Civil War.

keithareilly wrote:And actually, only the ten nations are aligned; Not the entire EU. The ten nations are aligned on one side; where are the rest of the EU nations? On the other side. At least that is what I understand when interpreting the explanation of the image, if the map is indeed the image. If the map is not the image, then this entire topic is worthless. Which it may be.


To my understanding the entire EU is aligned. According to Scripture the 10 Nations will give their power and authority to the Beast (Revelation 17:13). I believe that this prophecy has already been fulfilled when the WEU became defunct in 2011. They relinquished their authority to the EU.
Now - and again concerning the map you have provided - well, it needs to be qualified and/or validated.

keithareilly wrote:In general, I think you have an end times theory and what I am saying I see in this prophecy is not consistent with that theory. That's OK, I may be wrong, we both may be wrong. My point here is to say what I see, and why I see it. People do not have to agree. Honestly, I don't think any one agrees. That's OK.


You know Keith....it's really good to have varying ideas or theories - just as long as it is within the boundaries of Scripture. I've seen so much nonsense out there that as a believer I think that we all should challenge it. Not saying that I am right about anything - because I have been very, very wrong before. I must say that I enjoy how you have the ability to tie in historical facts and information and apply it to Scripture. What you post often causes me to take another look at how I view Scripture and apply it to history. I feel that this is a good thing, and I thank you for it!

keithareilly wrote:I am enjoying the discussion and your questions make me consider things I have not thought about before.


Same here :grin: - and let me add, it's never about who is right, or who is wrong (unless it's totally way out there in left field - not being in accordance with Scripture) But its about edifying the Body of Christ.

Enjoying the conversation and the lesson brother!
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Re: Woman Riding Beast - Map and Theory - Updated

Postby keithareilly on Fri Jul 27, 2018 12:29 pm

Hi Mr Baldy.


The original map I posted was lost by the people who had my pics prior to google. So, I created another map which I re-posted on the first post of this topic. That map shows the 10 nations as the WEU nations, not the Macron ten nations. You may be right about them being the ten nation who gave power over to EU. For they did via the Lisbon Treaty. Macron's proposed ten nation alliance may replace that WEU ten nations. It may not, have to wait and see on that one. If they are never used then what difference does it make except they were aligned and now have given their power to EU. Maybe that is all there will be, maybe not.

How did I come up with the original map?

1) I went to an online site where I can color in maps MapChart.net
2) I picked a color and then colored in the nations that were part of the ten nation WEU alliance.
3) Then I chose a different color and colored in the the WEU nations that were not part of the ten nation alliance.
4) Then I chose another color and colored in the 7 nations of the Balkins
5) Then I chose another color and filled in the Russia and the Norway.

OK, so how did all this start? It stated in the early 2000's when the many nations were joining the EU and the Wall Street Journal posted a map of Europe and colored it in with the status of the nations at that time. When I saw that map, I saw the Woman Riding the Beast and thought "No way, that can't be it!". Then I thought, "if the prophecy can be represented by a map, then the 4 beasts of Daniel 7 should represent kingdoms, empires, or alliances that resemble the described images when viewed via a map." (It was while I was doing research on that topic that I discovered fulfilledprophecy.com). The result was. The first three beasts of Daniel are described as resembling a lion with wings, a bear propped up on one side, and a leopard with wings and four heads. Sure enough, I found maps of historical kingdoms that resembled the first three beasts of Daniel 7. The fourth beast of Daniel 7 does not have that kind of description so I could not find a map of the fourth beast. Once I was satisfied that the I could Identify three of the four beasts in Daniel 7 via maps, I went back to the EU and tried to understand the prophecy. Doing the research taught me some things. However, it was not until I sat down and identified the nations of the WEU that were militarily aligned and those that were not, then colored in a map of the nations that were militarily aligned in one color and then colored the other WEU nations in another color that I found the seven hills upon which she sits (The Balkan nations). Once I discovered the seven hills represented nations just as the harlot and the beast represent nations, I then wondered if the lamb represented countries as well. Hence Norway and Russia are colored in. Russia itself could be the lamb may not need Norway, so I colored them in in different shades of yellow on the original map. Originally, I thought Denmark was the golden cup but was not satisfied; did not seem to fit very well. When Macron announced his new military alliance, Denmark became part of the new ten nation alliance and I thought it is now a beast kingdom so it can't be part of the Harlot. So I did some more research and found Latvia and its sex tourism industry. After the cup I realized the islands of the Baltic could be the jewels she is described as wearing and colored them in as well. I also went back and tried to use colors close to those described in the prophecy. Afterward changing the colors, I realized that the harlot wore purple and scarlet because Estonia, colored in red (scarlet), is actually a beast nation that makes up the part of harlot as well.

Brexit is an interesting development. The UK, even after Brexit, will still be part of the Beast kingdoms as it will still be part of the ten nation military alliance. However, It will not be a member nation of the EU. How does that affect the MAP? Interestingly, if you color in the MAP with just the EU member countries that are part of Macron's ten nation alliance, those countries then resemble a dragon head with its mouth open, facing south. Switzerland makes up its eye, its tongue is made up of the islands of Corsica and Sardinia.

With regards to the ten nation alliance and a revived roman empire.
Take a look at a map of the Western Roman Empire and notice how much it and the map of the Beast from the Abyss resemble each other.

Keith
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Re: Woman Riding Beast - Map and Theory - Updated

Postby Mr Baldy on Sat Jul 28, 2018 6:25 am

Hi Keith,

Thanks for the map explanation. Please forgive my ignorance, but I'm not sure what you mean by "lamb nations" as Scripture (to my knowledge) has always identified the Lamb as Christ. Perhaps you can elaborate on that?


keithareilly wrote:Brexit is an interesting development. The UK, even after Brexit, will still be part of the Beast kingdoms as it will still be part of the ten nation military alliance. However, It will not be a member nation of the EU.


I want to make a couple of points concerning Brexit. First, many don't realize what "Brexit" actually is, and why it even came about. For those who don't know, or are following this thread (because it is fascinating :mrgreen: ) at least for me - well, the term "Brexit" is short for Britain making an "exit" from the EU. This becomes important to students of the bible who are interested in Bible Prophesy, as the EU "may" be the Fourth Empire that comes to life and devours the Whole Earth before the Return of Christ.

It is my opinion that what has gone on with the WEU; a High Representative being named under Article 666; the European Neighborhood Policy (ENP) - the WEU giving up it's authority to the EU in 2011; and even the Lisbon Treaty all plays a role in the Revived Roman Empire coming to life from the Abyss and fulfilling Bible Prophecy.

It is further my opinion that Britain is one of the 3 Horns that the coming Antichrist will subdue, and will indeed return to the EU - which will be the 4th and final Empire that Scripture mentions.

Not to derail your thread - but I think that it all relates. I want to make one final point...…..

Often when Bible Prophecy is studied, or those who are watching it take notice of what is going on - we lose sight because things don't fit into a certain perspective we have, or what so-called "Bible Prophecy Experts" say will happen, and we give up. Some want to look at "fly-by-night" theories that some of these same Bible Prophecy Experts very, very cleverly and cunningly come up with that sounds good, and tickle the ears of well meaning believers - but in reality, all they are after is money. The fulfillment of prophecy is more often than not discovered in hindsight. I am one to look at "evidence." And this very, very powerful evidence manifested by the EU absolutely cannot be ignored - and I mean everything that has reformed it into a Beast Empire that will only grow stronger, and more powerful.

This theory that you have brought up - to include the map, and the actions developing with Macron is "evidence" that appears to be supported with Scripture. The actions of Macron are manifesting itself right before our very eyes.

Question is how will it all come together?
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Re: Woman Riding Beast - Map and Theory - Updated

Postby keithareilly on Sat Jul 28, 2018 11:08 am

Mr Baldy wrote...

Thanks for the map explanation. Please forgive my ignorance, but I'm not sure what you mean by "lamb nations" as Scripture (to my knowledge) has always identified the Lamb as Christ. Perhaps you can elaborate on that?


Correct, when I first read the prophecy I did not think of the Lamb as anything other than Christ himself. It did not occur to me that the lamb might also represent a country or alliance.

Revelation 17:13-14
13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast. 14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.

When I read this I understood this to mean the that Christ will stir up an enemy of the ten nation alliance just as God stirred up the Medes against Babylon.
Isaiah 13:17
17 The Lord says, “I am stirring up the Medes[a] to attack Babylon. They care nothing for silver and are not tempted by gold.

In this prophecy, I see war. I see war between the Beast and the Harlot. I see war between the Beast and the Lamb.
I have identified the following things in the prophecy as geographic places on the MAP in Europe
1) The Beast - The ten nation alliance
2) The Abyss - The oceans/seas from which the beast appears to be rising from on the MAP
3) The Harlot - EU nations not part of the Alliance
4) The Seven Hills upon which she sits - The Balkan nations
5) The Golden Cup (Rev 17:4) - Latvia and a small part of Russia
6) Precious Stones and Pearls (Rev 17:4) - The Islands in the Baltic Sea
7) The Lamb - Russia and possibly Norway

So, the beast and the Lamb engage in war and the Lamb overcomes them. The question is: If the Lamb, Christ, overcomes the beast, what nation/alliance does the Lamb, Christ, use to overcome the Beast ? Because the prophecy identifies the players by how they appear on a MAP, it occurred to me to look for a nation or alliance that might resemble a lamb as that is the victor over the beast. In conclusion, I see Christ, the Lamb, using nations, which resemble a lamb on the MAP, to conquer the ten nation Beast.

For Christ to use nations that resemble a lamb is Quite A Blatant Statement about who conquers the beast.

---

Might I suggest you take another look at the MAP and see if you can identify the 7 things I have listed above.

Here are some things that might help you see what I see.

1) Look at the English Chanel between England and France as the shoulder of the Beast. That shoulder is still submerged beneath the Abyss. England and Italy each form a leg but England's leg is still partial under water. Why? Because the Beast is "Rising from the Abyss", it is still partially submerged, not yet completely above water.
2) The Woman's hair is long and formed by Sweden and Finland. The hair formed by Finland drops behind her shoulder while the hair formed by Sweden drops in front of her shoulder.
3) Pearls and stones are Islands in the Baltic and I colored them in green for "Emerald".
4) The gold cup is in her hand; the hand is formed by Lithuania.
5) Notice how Greece forms ankle, foot and toes.
6) The Lamb countries are colored in Blue. Sweden and Finland hide the much of the neck and head but you can see an ear and snout. The font leg is formed by the southern most section (just above Georgia) and its body goes back to the north east with its belly above Kazakhstan.

Also notice the Key in the upper left of the MAP.




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Re: Woman Riding Beast - Map and Theory - Updated

Postby Mr Baldy on Sat Jul 28, 2018 6:32 pm

keithareilly wrote:So, the beast and the Lamb engage in war and the Lamb overcomes them. The question is: If the Lamb, Christ, overcomes the beast, what nation/alliance does the Lamb, Christ, use to overcome the Beast ? Because the prophecy identifies the players by how they appear on a MAP, it occurred to me to look for a nation or alliance that might resemble a lamb as that is the victor over the beast. In conclusion, I see Christ, the Lamb, using nations, which resemble a lamb on the MAP, to conquer the ten nation Beast.


Ok, I very clearly see the lamb resemblance in the nations you have identified as Lamb Nations .

keithareilly wrote:I have identified the following things in the prophecy as geographic places on the MAP in Europe
1) The Beast - The ten nation alliance
2) The Abyss - The oceans/seas from which the beast appears to be rising from on the MAP
3) The Harlot - EU nations not part of the Alliance
4) The Seven Hills upon which she sits - The Balkan nations
5) The Golden Cup (Rev 17:4) - Latvia and a small part of Russia
6) Precious Stones and Pearls (Rev 17:4) - The Islands in the Baltic Sea
7) The Lamb - Russia and possibly Norway


As far as getting a clear picture of the Woman Riding the Beast - I have actually printed out the map in an effort to see what you are describing; however, it's often very difficult to see what others see in their own minds eye. Sorta like looking at the clouds and seeing different forms - I think that it's very subjective, unless more details can be provided in order to see what the other person is viewing. I see the woman's hair according to your description, but that's where it ends as far as attempting to figure out what she may look like according to your map.

There have been various pictures and structures made concerning the Woman Riding the Beast. I looked on the internet and found a link (below). As you can see the woman is riding the Beast facing different directions. I'd really like to see what you are viewing from the map you provided, so if you will, (if it can be done) by using any of the photos in the link, can you further articulate which way the Beast is facing; how you see the Woman riding on the Beast and what kind of Beast is the 10 Nation alliance forming? Again, the lamb was very obvious to me, and the first thing that I saw.


http://signsofthelastdays.com/archives/ ... f-humanity

Nevertheless, Keith - I think that you are really on to something here and what you are bringing up really adds credence to the fact that the EU "may be" the Final Empire spoken of in Scripture.
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Re: Woman Riding Beast - Map and Theory - Updated

Postby keithareilly on Sat Jul 28, 2018 7:08 pm

Mr Baldy,

The only thing the images have correct is she is side saddle.

Just the Woman with the Golden Cup and Jewelry

See the link above. I have removed the countries names and borders and am showing just the woman with her cup and jewelry. She is sitting with her knees facing to the right, then her knees bend down and her feet are formed by Greece.
You cannot see individual legs. It is like she is wearing a dress that goes to her ankles.
Let me know if this helps.

Just the Beast from the Abyss

The Beast appears to be rising from the ocean. England and Italy form legs, Denmark appears to be a fin of some kind. It is rising (breaking the surface like a whale breaks the surface) and facing south west. Spain and Portugal form its head. France forms its neck and shoulders. Estonia is a part of the beast that is just emerging from the Abyss (Ocean). The beast does not form any kind of beast we know. If it were to resemble a lion it would be described as a lion. If it resembled a bear it would be described as a bear. Because it is just prophesied as a [unknown] beast, we should not expect it to resemble any known animal.

The aqua background is the Abyss; oceans, seas, gulfs, etc. For the beast picture I have removed the rest of the land masses in hopes you can picture in your mind some unknown sea beast out in the middle of the ocean "rising" from the depths and breaking the surface. A whale comes up to breath then drops back under the surface. You don't see the whole whale when it does that, just what breaks the surface. Imagine some kind of strange unknown creature that has head, neck, tail, and legs is breaking the surface like a whale.

Keith
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