Unreported News, Commentary, Resources and Discussion of Bible Prophecy
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1whowaits wrote:Rev 14 indicates that those who take the mark and worship the beast will be 'tormented with burning sulfur... forever and ever..' It appears that those who take the mark are eternally condemned to the Lake of Fire, there is no chance of repentance.
At this time people take marks and worship Satan but if they repent and accept Christ they can still be saved, up until the time they die. It would then seem unlikely that just getting a tattoo or a chip and worshiping Satan's representative by itself would eliminate the opportunity to repent and accept Christ. There would appear to be something more, something that changes an individual into something that can never repent or accept Christ.
Dan 2:41 Whereas you saw the feet and toes, partly of potter's clay and partly of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; yet the strength of the iron shall be in it, just as you saw the iron mixed with ceramic clay.
Dan 2:42 And as the toes of the feet were partly of iron and partly of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong and partly fragile.
Dan 2:43 As you saw iron mixed with ceramic clay, they will mingle with the seed of men; but they will not adhere to one another, just as iron does not mix with clay.
ToledoDebbie wrote:http://www.prophecynewswatch.com/article.cfm?recent_news_id=2353
Very interesting - I had no idea that these groups and individuals even existed!! Everything seems to be on fast-forward these days.
Thousands of people in Sweden are having futuristic microchips implanted into their skin to carry out everyday activities and replace credit cards and cash.
More than 4,000 people have already had the sci-fi-ish chips, about the size of a grain of rice, inserted into their hands — with the pioneers predicting millions will soon join them as they hope to take it global.
Thousands of people in Sweden are having futuristic microchips implanted into their skin to carry out everyday activities and replace credit cards and cash.
More than 4,000 people have already had the sci-fi-ish chips, about the size of a grain of rice, inserted into their hands — with the pioneers predicting millions will soon join them as they hope to take it global.
Rev 14:6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
Rev 14:7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.
Rev 14:8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.
Rev 14:9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
Rev 14:10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
Rev 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
Rev 14:13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.
Mark F wrote:I'm of the firm conviction that people go to hell for what they believe, for what they pledge their allegiance to.
How is an implanted micro chip then the mark of the beast?
It has to be, and maybe more, a denial of the Father and the Son, a denial of the cross of Christ. Those things are why people go to hell.
How is an implanted micro chip then the mark of the beast?
It has to be, and maybe more, a denial of the Father and the Son, a denial of the cross of Christ. Those things are why people go to hell.
Jericho wrote:Well, there is that verse in Leviticus 19:28, "You shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print any marks on you: I am the LORD." And then there was the mark placed upon Cain so no one would kill him (Gen 4:15). Unlike today, tattoos were not for show. They were either for some religious ceremony, a sign of ownership or submission, or used for identification.
I can think of two main objections to tattoos. One is they are a pagan practice. It wasn't something the Hebrews or later Christians practiced. Marking, cutting, or branding the body was always something the pagans did. The second is that it disfigures the body which was made in God's image. "Or do you not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own?" (1CO 6:19). So if the body is a temple, tattoos would be like graffiti.
Just my 2 cents.
Jericho wrote:Well, there is that verse in Leviticus 19:28, "You shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print any marks on you: I am the LORD." And then there was the mark placed upon Cain so no one would kill him (Gen 4:15). Unlike today, tattoos were not for show. They were either for some religious ceremony, a sign of ownership or submission, or used for identification.
It also says in Leviticus not to eat shrimp and to stone those who commit adultery, so I don't think we can take those rules and apply them today.
Jericho wrote:It also says in Leviticus not to eat shrimp and to stone those who commit adultery, so I don't think we can take those rules and apply them today.
We don't live under the Law, but the Law was meant to teach right from wrong. If it was morally wrong under the Old Covenant, it's still morally wrong under the New Covenant. The only difference now is it doesn't come with corporal punishment. The dietary laws were part of the ceremonial laws and were specifically for the Israelites under the OC. So Christians are not bound by them.
25 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you cleanse the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of extortion and self-indulgence. 26 Blind Pharisee, first cleanse the inside of the cup and dish, that the outside of them may be clean also.
27 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs which indeed appear beautiful outwardly, but inside are full of dead men’s bones and all uncleanness. 28 Even so you also outwardly appear righteous to men, but inside you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness.
Abiding in His Word wrote:Just a thought about defaming/cutting the temple... How is circumcision not cutting the flesh? And the practice of making one a eunuch for the sake of the kingdom.
Jericho wrote:You might find this article interesting (link below). Basically circumcision was a sign of God's covenant between Him and His people. It might seem odd for God to pick circumcision as a sign of His covenant. But one thing I find interesting is that in order for children to be conceived, the man's "seed" has to pass through the covenant. In that way, even the unborn are under the covenant. Perhaps that is the primary reason for circumcision.
Jericho wrote: Basically circumcision was a sign of God's covenant between Him and His people.
It might seem odd for God to pick circumcision as a sign of His covenant.
But one thing I find interesting is that in order for children to be conceived, the man's "seed" has to pass through the covenant.
That is quite a bit different from the way the pagans would cut themselves, like the prophets of Baal who cut themselves to their god (1Ki 18:28), or the demon-possessed man cut himself (Mar 5:5). That sort of cutting is demonic.
As for tattooing, the Bible admittedly doesn't have much to say about it. Although, I think the reasons I gave to not do it stands. To me a tattoo is a sign of the world and carnality. Just my opinion, please no one take offense.
Whatever our opinion about tattooing, maybe it would be better to learn to overlook them as they are very popular today and usually represent something special to each individual. I've seen some very beautiful (nearly) full body tattoos on people and asked them if they minded sharing what they represented. Nearly everyone is happy to share the meaning behind the design and most were declarations of fond memories, beliefs, people, dreams, etc. and some represented gang affiliations and the like.
Abiding in His Word wrote:Jericho, please help me understand that statement. How does a man's seed "pass through" a covenant? Didn't God previously make a promise to the woman in Genesis regarding her "seed?" Her descendants throughout history proved the validity of God's promise to her resulting in the birth of the Messiah. It was the first of 353 prophecies regarding the coming Messiah in the OT.
Cutting is cutting.
Makes no sense to me....Paul even circumcised Timothy and refused to circumcise Titus.
The story in the link I provided was the reason for my statement above. When the gang member in the story above tried to go to church in hopes of finding God, he was turned away at the door by a deacon based on his looks. He was told they didn't want "his kind" there.Read his story and if I remember the details, that man is being baptized today.
Jericho wrote:I don't think it has anything to do with the Messiah in this context. It was specifically a sign of God's covenant with Abraham and his descendants through Isaac. Without getting too graphic, circumcision was done on a man's manhood, right? So during "the act" his seed (ie. sperm) passes through the mark of the covenant, and passes unto his children. Get the picture? Rather this has spiritual implications or is purely symbolic I don't know.
Rather this has spiritual implications or is purely symbolic I don't know.
I don't think we're going to understand everything why God does things they way He does.
It's just like animal sacrifice. It seems sort of odd that God would use animal blood to atone for sin. But obviously there is a supernatural quality about blood that we may not be aware of that transcends the natural. It was Jesus' blood that atoned for all of mankind. So blood seems to be a bridge between the natural and supernatural.
I think it's one thing for a person to get them when they are unsaved. I certainly don't think they should be turned away because of them. But I do think it's quite another to get them after being saved. An inward change is expressed by an outward change. If Christians look and act just like the world then something is wrong.
Jericho wrote: Abiding in His Word wrote: Jericho, please help me understand that statement. How does a man's seed "pass through" a covenant? Didn't God previously make a promise to the woman in Genesis regarding her "seed?" Her descendants throughout history proved the validity of God's promise to her resulting in the birth of the Messiah. It was the first of 353 prophecies regarding the coming Messiah in the OT.
Then Jericho wrote: I don't think it has anything to do with the Messiah in this context. It was specifically a sign of God's covenant with Abraham and his descendants through Isaac.
Abiding in His Word wrote:Anyway, most covenants in scripture are more easily understood, but the circumcision is still a mystery to me.
Eph 1: 13,14
And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.
Isaiah 44:5
5 Some will say, ‘I belong to the Lord’;
others will call themselves by the name of Jacob;
still others will write on their hand, ‘The Lord’s,’
and will take the name Israel.
What God Says About Tattoos
- by Joyce Meyer
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Holiness is not legalism
For many years people have confused biblical holiness with a long list of rules to follow. The idea of “holiness” became not smoking, not drinking, not cussing, not dancing, not playing cards, not going to parties, not wearing pretty clothes, not wearing any makeup, no jewelry, not having a nice hairstyle and more. You had to cut or not cut your hair depending on which brand or religion you followed, and you definitely couldn’t have a tattoo or, if you're a man, put an earring in your ear! That kind of behavior would just put the religious people over the edge!
But did you know that in Isaiah 44:5 (AMPC), it says, One will say, I am the Lord's; and another one will write [even brand or tattoo] upon his hand, I am the Lords...?
In Isaiah 49, it says that God has a picture of you tattooed on the palm of his hand. How cool is that? If I got a tattoo, I would get one just to make religious demons mad. For years I lived in so much bondage from legalism. Everything about legalism is something you can't do. But let me tell you something, it is not boring to serve Christ. It is so much fun, and there is so much you can do. And not only that, you can enjoy all of it!
It comes down to your heart
Leviticus 19:28 says You shall not make any cuts on your body [in mourning] for the dead, nor make any tattoo marks on yourselves; I am the Lord. In other scriptures, God punished the Israelites for wearing earrings because they were doing it at a feast to the idol, Baal. But in Ezekiel 16:11-12, there was a big feast, and God put earrings on everyone and even nose rings.
So, what’s the difference? True biblical holiness is all about your motive and why you're doing things. It’s being different from the world and honoring God above all else…but that doesn’t mean you can’t have a little fun!
Why in the world would we think that God is colorless and boring and wants everything to be just a bunch of rules and regulations? Let me tell you something, the Bible says that God sits in the heavens and laughs, and He put a laugh in every one of us because He expects us to use it. We need to realize that we're the billboard for God. People so desperately want to be happy, and they need to see that in us. They don't need a bunch of people calling themselves Christians who look like they've been baptized in prune juice! Pursue holiness, stop looking at what everyone else is doing and go out and enjoy life…maybe even get a tattoo while you’re at it!
Sonbeam wrote:A question about “the mark”:
As per your posts, is the reason most of you (not all) seem to be fixated/worried about the “the mark in the flesh” because you believe you’ll lose your salvation if you get this “mark in the flesh”?
This is an impossibility. Salvation, i. e., the birth in the Spirit, is a spiritual birth -- not a physical “ in the flesh” birth. Born again believers have been marked with a seal, the seal of the Holy Spirit, Who guarantees our salvation, i.e, being God’s possession already and eternal life with Him.Eph 1: 13,14
And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.
The above passage trumps any other scripture that would indicate otherwise.
Blessings,
sonbeam
"One will say, I am the Lord’s; and another will call himself by the name of Jacob; and another will write [even brand or tattoo] upon his hand, I am the Lord’s, and surname himself by the [honorable] name of Israel." -Isaiah 44:5
But all this is too refined, and is evidently a departure from the true sense of the passage. The mark, or writing, was not on the hand, but with it - literally, 'and this shall write his hand to Yahweh; 'and the figure is evidently taken from the mode of making a contract or bargain, where the name is subscribed to the instrument. It was a solemn compact or covenant, by which they enrolled themselves among the worshippers of God, and pledged themselves to his service. The manner of a contract among the Hebrews is described in Jeremiah 32:10, Jeremiah 32:12, Jeremiah 32:44. A public, solemn, and recorded covenant, to which the names of princes, Levites, and priests, were subscribed, and which was sealed, by which they bound themselves to the service of God, is mentioned in Nehemiah 9:38. Here it denotes the solemn manner in which they would profess to be worshippers of the true God; and it is expressive of the true nature of a profession of religion. -Barnes' Notes on the Bible
https://biblehub.com/commentaries/isaiah/44-5.htm
Isaiah 49:16 See, I have inscribed you on the palms of My hands; Your walls are continually before Me.
Revelation 19:16 And He has on His robe and on His thigh a name written: KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.
"Inscriptions on the outer garments were sometimes used by distinguished personages. -Ellicot's commentary for English readers
“And on his garment and (i.e., even) upon his thigh”; on that part of the robe covering his thigh, he has a title of honour written." -Expositor's Greek Testament
"on his vesture and on his thigh] i.e, probably, beginning on the lower part of the cloak, and continued where the thigh projected from it as He rode—whether this continuation was on the bare flesh, or (as seems likelier) on the skirt of the tunic." -Cambridge Bible for Schools and Colleges
https://biblehub.com/commentaries/revelation/19-16.htm
shorttribber wrote:28 You shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor tattoo any marks on you: I am the Lord.
It's the Purpose of the Tattoo or Cutting of the Flesh that is emphasized in the text.
In other words, to Honor or Worship THE DEAD with these things is what was forbidden.
The other examples (circumcision, ear rings showing service, or adorning a virgin for marriage) that abiding has given were allowed, just and good.
Jericho wrote:shorttribber wrote:28 You shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor tattoo any marks on you: I am the Lord.
It's the Purpose of the Tattoo or Cutting of the Flesh that is emphasized in the text.In other words, to Honor or Worship THE DEAD with these things is what was forbidden.The other examples (circumcision, ear rings showing service, or adorning a virgin for marriage) that abiding has given were allowed, just and good.
ST, how do you know that marking the skin is connected with cutting of the flesh for the dead, and not two separate thoughts? If it is implied that tattooing is only prohibited if it's in regards to worshiping the dead, then wouldn't it be acceptable apart from that? And if so, then why was it not a common practice among the Israelites?
Jericho wrote:Regarding two scriptures that have been mentioned previously:Isaiah 49:16 See, I have inscribed you on the palms of My hands; Your walls are continually before Me.
I don't see inscribing or engraving equivalent or an endorsement of marking the skin with ink. I also note that two separate words are used. "marks" in Leviticus 19:28 uses the word "qa`aqa`" and is only used once in the Old Testament, while "graven" or "inscribed" in Isaiah 49:16 used the word "chaqaq".
This suggests to me they are not the same thing.It's also possible it's not a literal inscription, but poetic language.
The pagan's would tattoo their gods on themselves as a sign of devotion to them. This scripture then would be God's way of saying that He was devoted to Israel.
shorttribber wrote:Sonbeam wrote:A question about “the mark”:
As per your posts, is the reason most of you (not all) seem to be fixated/worried about the “the mark in the flesh” because you believe you’ll lose your salvation if you get this “mark in the flesh”?
This is an impossibility. Salvation, i. e., the birth in the Spirit, is a spiritual birth -- not a physical “ in the flesh” birth. Born again believers have been marked with a seal, the seal of the Holy Spirit, Who guarantees our salvation, i.e, being God’s possession already and eternal life with Him.Eph 1: 13,14
And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.
The above passage trumps any other scripture that would indicate otherwise.
Blessings,
sonbeam
Eph 1
13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Looking at a list of about thirty translations I found only a handful with the added words "Marked" with a seal, rather than simply the word "Sealed".
I think it better to not have that word added...as a translation should Not Add to the existing Word of God.
That makes a Bible version an Interpretation rather than a Translation.
shorttribber wrote:So many theological topics seem to find their way into a OSAS discussion.....not sure how it can be really avoided.
As per your posts, is the reason most of you (not all) seem to be fixated/worried about the “the mark in the flesh” because you believe you’ll lose your salvation if you get this “mark in the flesh”?
Sonbeam wrote:Didn't get any answers, but only you ST wondering how we could avoid this annoying subject from coming up in most discussions.Since this is about salvation, a most important subject, I doubt it can be avoided
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