Supreme Court upholds Obamacare

by **Exit40** on Thu Jun 28, 2012 7:34 am

Jun 28, 2012
Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law

By Charles Dharapak, AP
The Supreme Court upheld President Obama's health care law today in a splintered, complex opinion that gives Obama a major election-year victory.

Basically. the justices said that the individual mandate -- the requirement that most Americans buy health insurance or pay a fine -- is constitutional as a tax.

Chief Justice John Roberts -- a conservative appointed by President George W. Bush -- provided the key vote to preserve the landmark health care law, which figures to be a major issue in Obama's re-election bid against Republican opponent Mitt Romney.

The government had argued that Congress had the authority to pass the individual mandate as part of its power to regulate interstate commerce; the court disagreed with that analysis, but preserved the mandate because the fine amounts to a tax that is within Congress' constitutional taxing powers....

Continues

God Bless

David

by **burien1** on Thu Jun 28, 2012 7:48 am

We can only pray for a republican Senate and House in the late fall, to repeal the law, itself.

by **drdos** on Thu Jun 28, 2012 8:00 am

OHBUMMER!

by **Resurrection Torchlight** on Thu Jun 28, 2012 8:11 am

I was shocked when I heard this, I would have thought that the conservative judges would have united and struck down the personal mandate at least. So now the precedent has been set, the government can make you buy things and justify it by calling it a "tax".

What is this country coming to?

RT

by **Abiding in His Word** on Thu Jun 28, 2012 8:25 am

Waiting to hear what Boehner has to say.

by **Abiding in His Word** on Thu Jun 28, 2012 8:28 am

I fail to see how the Court translated Obama's "penalty" as a tax. :humm:

But what do I know....

by **T-Minus?** on Thu Jun 28, 2012 8:28 am

Well, here is the final bit of proof that the entire governing apparatus of the United States is reprobate and diseased. Those of us whose trust is only in the Lord are on the cusp of having that trust put to the test. Maranatha!!

by **GodsStudent** on Thu Jun 28, 2012 8:38 am

My pastor called the politicians "petty thieves" and then he said that throughout history this has been the same......but God is not overcome by these small timers, He created them and He will as easily condemn whom He wishes. Chin up, you guys....tribulation means tribulation, but Christ returns and sets it all straight in the end.....it's like a good movie with ups, and downs and the "good guy" always wins in the end.......

by **drdos** on Thu Jun 28, 2012 9:07 am

GodsStudent wrote:My pastor called the politicians "petty thieves" and then he said that throughout history this has been the same......but God is not overcome by these small timers, He created them and He will as easily condemn whom He wishes. Chin up, you guys....tribulation means tribulation, but Christ returns and sets it all straight in the end.....it's like a good movie with ups, and downs and the "good guy" always wins in the end.......

Yeppers!

by **Jericho** on Thu Jun 28, 2012 9:09 am

How does Obama manage to always get his way? This thing looked dead in the water, especially after Obama dissed the Supreme Court. Regardless it's still not over, threres hope we can get him out of office and repeal this juggernaut.And if all else fails the state will be the last line of defense.

by **drdos** on Thu Jun 28, 2012 9:44 am

Jericho wrote:How does Obama manage to always get his way? This thing looked dead in the water, especially after Obama dissed the Supreme Court. Regardless it's still not over, threres hope we can get him out of office and repeal this juggernaut.

hahahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaha Sorry, do you really think he won't win the Presidency again. I mean really after all this???? If he wants he can say that he needs to remain president due to a constitutional crisis. He'll just make one up if need be.

by **Jericho** on Thu Jun 28, 2012 10:05 am

drdos wrote:
Jericho wrote:How does Obama manage to always get his way? This thing looked dead in the water, especially after Obama dissed the Supreme Court. Regardless it's still not over, threres hope we can get him out of office and repeal this juggernaut.
hahahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaha Sorry, do you really think he won't win the Presidency again. I mean really after all this???? If he wants he can say that he needs to remain president due to a constitutional crisis. He'll just make one up if need be.

If Obama was going to do that he wouldn't be trying so hard to win votes. I'm realistic enough to know he could get re-elected again, but optimistic enough to believe he wont.

by **drdos** on Thu Jun 28, 2012 10:11 am

Jericho wrote:
drdos wrote:
Jericho wrote:How does Obama manage to always get his way? This thing looked dead in the water, especially after Obama dissed the Supreme Court. Regardless it's still not over, threres hope we can get him out of office and repeal this juggernaut.
hahahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaha Sorry, do you really think he won't win the Presidency again. I mean really after all this???? If he wants he can say that he needs to remain president due to a constitutional crisis. He'll just make one up if need be.

If Obama was going to do that he wouldn't be trying so hard to win votes. I'm realistic enough to know he could get re-elected again, but optimistic enough to believe he wont.

The precedent has been set time and time again. This guy has just achieved dictatorship by pushing his agenda past the supreme court. Not making fun of you here just my overview of what we are watching happen. More evidence that our time is short, and our Lord is soon in coming! Praise The Lord!

by **Jericho** on Thu Jun 28, 2012 10:19 am

I understand what your saying, he behaves like a de facto dictator. I agree with you there. But even Obama has his limits and can't do everything he wants. The US is the most armed country in the world. The fox may be guarding the hen house, but these hen's are armed to the teeth!

More evidence that our time is short, and our Lord is soon in coming! Praise The Lord!

by **kirthril** on Thu Jun 28, 2012 1:12 pm

El Gallo wrote:Most of COngress is beyond redemption. Note they say nothing about the POTUS overreaching or the corrupt massive banks. Congress is descending into being only a ceremonial function.

My reply:
Well isn't it great we still got the supreme court to stick up for us? <---- opinion pending HC law.

My post in a thread about a week ago. I am now withdrawing that last statement. I am just totally and utterly shocked beyond words at the Supreme Court ruling today. I am almost on the verge of breaking down. This is just utterly devastating to my pride as a american and love of freedom.

Freedom died today. I don't care if they want to call it a tax or not. WE ARE BEING FORCED TO BUY A PRODUCT WHETHER WE CAN AFFORD OR NOT, WANT IT OR NOT, NEED IT OR NOT! THIS IS TOTALITARIANISM. THIS IS NOT REPUBLICAN DEMOCRACY!!! THIS IS STRAIGHT UP DICTATORSHIP QUALITY (word i am not going to use)!!!!!

Freedom... that word should sting at the heart now. Make you cry as you hear it. With this, now the Government can force us to do whatever they want as long as the punishment is a "Tax". This is complete.... ARGH!!!.

This just... this just stings so badly right now. I went to work last night, full of energy, brimming with excitement over a strikedown of at least the mandate part. Expecting to come home, get a few hours of sleep and wake up to the good news... Then BAM! Like a shot to the heart; 1st thought that ran through my head as i read the headlines on Foxnews.com: "We are no longer a free country. America is gone".

Obama, through his lies and deception just keeps on winning. The socialization of America continues. The redistribution of wealth continues. This will not lead to a better future for America or Health Care. This bill is designed to overload the system and collapse the private health insurance industry thus paving the way for total gov't single payer system.

He's forcing what? 30-60million people back into the laps of insurance companies. The vast majority of them cant even afford health insurance as it is. How are they gonna pay? Thats right, the premiums and rates on existing customers is gonna skyrocket. Law of supply and demand. High supply low demand = lower prices. Low supply high demand = higher prices. He's adding demand, but the supply of money isn't increasing cause many of them cant pay anyway. This forces insurance companies to raise rates on the paying customers to cover those who are paying nothing to little. People are gonna say "to hell with this", they are gonna leave the insurance industry in droves, and private insurance will go bankrupt.

During Obama's campaign the above ^ scenerio, by his own admission would take 10-15 years for private insurance to collapse. And then the Federal Gov't comes in with its "solution" of a single payer system.

This isn't Americanism. This isn't Capitalism. This isn't Freedom. This isn't Government "for the people by the people".

This... is... Totalitarianism.

I... Am... Stunned. :cry:

by **drdos** on Thu Jun 28, 2012 1:33 pm

I'm just waiting for that political figure head from the newly risen Roman Empire to rise up and talk about a Utopian society and promise to make all things right by all people and cure all that ails us and covertly funds programs to destroy Israel and its only allies and and and and.... O........... :wink:

by **laney** on Thu Jun 28, 2012 3:20 pm

kirthril wrote:
El Gallo wrote:Most of COngress is beyond redemption. Note they say nothing about the POTUS overreaching or the corrupt massive banks. Congress is descending into being only a ceremonial function.

My reply:
Well isn't it great we still got the supreme court to stick up for us? <---- opinion pending HC law.

My post in a thread about a week ago. I am now withdrawing that last statement. I am just totally and utterly shocked beyond words at the Supreme Court ruling today. I am almost on the verge of breaking down. This is just utterly devastating to my pride as a american and love of freedom.

Freedom died today. I don't care if they want to call it a tax or not. WE ARE BEING FORCED TO BUY A PRODUCT WHETHER WE CAN AFFORD OR NOT, WANT IT OR NOT, NEED IT OR NOT! THIS IS TOTALITARIANISM. THIS IS NOT REPUBLICAN DEMOCRACY!!! THIS IS STRAIGHT UP DICTATORSHIP QUALITY (word i am not going to use)!!!!!

Freedom... that word should sting at the heart now. Make you cry as you hear it. With this, now the Government can force us to do whatever they want as long as the punishment is a "Tax". This is complete.... ARGH!!!.

This just... this just stings so badly right now. I went to work last night, full of energy, brimming with excitement over a strikedown of at least the mandate part. Expecting to come home, get a few hours of sleep and wake up to the good news... Then BAM! Like a shot to the heart; 1st thought that ran through my head as i read the headlines on Foxnews.com: "We are no longer a free country. America is gone".

Obama, through his lies and deception just keeps on winning. The socialization of America continues. The redistribution of wealth continues. This will not lead to a better future for America or Health Care. This bill is designed to overload the system and collapse the private health insurance industry thus paving the way for total gov't single payer system.

He's forcing what? 30-60million people back into the laps of insurance companies. The vast majority of them cant even afford health insurance as it is. How are they gonna pay? Thats right, the premiums and rates on existing customers is gonna skyrocket. Law of supply and demand. High supply low demand = lower prices. Low supply high demand = higher prices. He's adding demand, but the supply of money isn't increasing cause many of them cant pay anyway. This forces insurance companies to raise rates on the paying customers to cover those who are paying nothing to little. People are gonna say "to hell with this", they are gonna leave the insurance industry in droves, and private insurance will go bankrupt.

During Obama's campaign the above ^ scenerio, by his own admission would take 10-15 years for private insurance to collapse. And then the Federal Gov't comes in with its "solution" of a single payer system.

This isn't Americanism. This isn't Capitalism. This isn't Freedom. This isn't Government "for the people by the people".

This... is... Totalitarianism.

I... Am... Stunned.

I'm not shocked kirthril but in agreement with ya!

by **daffodyllady** on Thu Jun 28, 2012 4:31 pm

Well... ObamaCare is unpopular enough that if Romney is NOT elected in November, I will chalk it up to voter fraud by the powers that be.

by **T-Minus?** on Thu Jun 28, 2012 6:15 pm

agree. I suspect he will be re-elected even if he doesn't get the most votes. There is a supernatural force around this evil man that insures he gets his way. I fear that this country has been given over and the hedge of protection lifted. Fifty three million abortions and tacit approval of abominations are reaping their rewards on a national level. Sad for our young kids and grandkids if things don't change. Maranatha!!

by **El Gallo** on Thu Jun 28, 2012 11:16 pm

Lawlessness. Before she was placed on the Supreme Court (and perhaps because of it) Justice Kagan directly participated in orchestrating the political and media cover for the legislation as they were gearing up for the Congressional battle. Any normal Justice would have recused herself from this case, and she defiantly did not. That is lawlessness.

Justice Roberts invented something which the Obama people vigorously denied, and which did not appear in the massive statute even one time. He ignored the repeated, clear language that Congress intended opting out to be unlawful and therefore subject to a penalty. They avoided the word and concept of a "tax" like the plague. Yet Justice Roberts transformed the penalty word into a "tax." Nobody expected that outcome because nobody ever considered the Court could do such a thing. Lawlessness.

Mark Leven further points out there is no such tax among the enumerated taxing powers in the Constitution; there is no such thing as a "tax" on inactivity. Lawlessness.

Now a mere historical oddity becomes something worth re-examining. How could a brilliant man like Roberts muff something as simple as the Presidential oath of office during a Presidential inauguration? And why the even odder private swearing in after that, inside the White House? No one thought the muffed oath to be invalid, so why the unprecedented private swearing in? What was actually said and done?

My mind slides into conspiratorial thoughts. But Roberts' inexplicable behavior on this case (and the almost equally brutal assault on state's rights in the Arizona case), give mind to thoughts of Manchurian Candidates. To paraphrase the Book of Esther, who knows, but that Roberts was placed there for time such such as this? Bets covered. Corruption assured. Lawlessness affirmed. The lawless one afoot?

by **GodsStudent** on Fri Jun 29, 2012 12:14 am

...for we wrestle not against flesh and blood....

Thanks for your insights, El Gallo.

by **drdos** on Fri Jun 29, 2012 6:05 am

El Gallo wrote:Lawlessness. Before she was placed on the Supreme Court (and perhaps because of it) Justice Kagan directly participated in orchestrating the political and media cover for the legislation as they were gearing up for the Congressional battle. Any normal Justice would have recused herself from this case, and she defiantly did not. That is lawlessness.

Justice Roberts invented something which the Obama people vigorously denied, and which did not appear in the massive statute even one time. He ignored the repeated, clear language that Congress intended opting out to be unlawful and therefore subject to a penalty. They avoided the word and concept of a "tax" like the plague. Yet Justice Roberts transformed the penalty word into a "tax." Nobody expected that outcome because nobody ever considered the Court could do such a thing. Lawlessness.

Mark Leven further points out there is no such tax among the enumerated taxing powers in the Constitution; there is no such thing as a "tax" on inactivity. Lawlessness.

Now a mere historical oddity becomes something worth re-examining. How could a brilliant man like Roberts muff something as simple as the Presidential oath of office during a Presidential inauguration? And why the even odder private swearing in after that, inside the White House? No one thought the muffed oath to be invalid, so why the unprecedented private swearing in? What was actually said and done?

My mind slides into conspiratorial thoughts. But Roberts' inexplicable behavior on this case (and the almost equally brutal assault on state's rights in the Arizona case), give mind to thoughts of Manchurian Candidates. To paraphrase the Book of Esther, who knows, but that Roberts was placed there for time such such as this? Bets covered. Corruption assured. Lawlessness affirmed. The lawless one afoot?

Leven is one of my Favs to listen to. I pray he finds Jesus. Also good insight and questions into the swearing in ceremony. Wonder what religious affiliations Roberts has?

by **member x** on Fri Jun 29, 2012 2:18 pm

I want to try and provide some silver lining in this ruling....

It's possible that Justice Roberts actually out-smarted everyone.

1. By ruling that the individual mandate is unconstitutional in the form of commerce, he has drawn a line (working with liberal judges) that the Gov't cannot force you to buy something, then regulate you on that someting. This is huge for now and later and should reign in some bad behavior by our over-regulating Gov't.

2. States were given some sovereignty by ruling the Fed cannot seek retribution (withholding medicade) from states that do not particpate. A state can now choose to opt in/out without any penalty.

3. Defining the individual mandate penalty for what it is: a tax. What does this mean? This means he has given the power back to the people. Obamacare is a horrible bill and it is the largest tax hike in history - but we now have the ability to repeal it with our vote. This also means it can be defunded with a vote. Finally, since it has been ruled as a tax, this tax was passed unconstitutionally since it did not go to comittee- which can be reviewed by the Supreme Court.

This is not over. Justice Roberts is playing a risky game, but I think he's setting this up for the voters to make a ruling on.

by **member x** on Fri Jun 29, 2012 2:30 pm

Finally, this makes Obamacare the absolute KEY issue with this election. We know that the last time this was the key issue the incumbents were voted out. 55-60% of the country is against this bill.

Romney, if he plays this right, can point out how often we were told this was not a tax and that not 1 dime would be raised on the middle class....by ruling it a tax, it is exposes this lie.

It also removes the ability to play the victim card for Obama. The truth is, if this would have been over turned, he would have pointed at the big-bad rich republicans ad the problem. He cannot do that now...because the courts ruled and did so in a bi-partisan way by upholding congress' ability to tax.

The irony is if Obama lost with this, he'd probably win the election. Now that he won the battle (sort-of) he will lose the war.

by **Abiding in His Word** on Fri Jun 29, 2012 2:33 pm

I've not heard one positive thing stated from any news media about the passage of this health-care mandate. I did hear something about the escalating amount of tax over the years, but that (oddly enough) the IRS has no power to demand payment of that tax. How could that be? I must have misunderstood. :humm:

by **SueAnn** on Fri Jun 29, 2012 6:28 pm

Everyone, pick up your stones and get ready to throw them at me...

I am no lover of Obama, that's for sure. But my personal experience with health insurance makes me more afraid of what will happen if Obamacare in repealed, than if Obamacare is NOT repealed.

I am 58 years old. Hubby is 63. Until about 6 years ago we had health care coverage all our adult lives, through hubby's workplace, or mine, or both. In 2000 we made the decision that I would "retire" to take care of my Mom, instead of putting her in a nursing home. At that point we became dependent on hubby's income AND his benefits, including health care coverage for him. We paid $100 A WEEK to have me included in his policy. At the time I thought that was terribly high. Later I would have given my eyeteeth to have such a low cost...but I digress.

Things were managable for a few years, then when the doo-doo hit the fan, hubby lost his job. His company (a Chrysler dealership) shut their doors. As did almost every dealership within about an hour from our house. Hubby had a dog of a time getting a job.

oops...gotta go...Mom is calling for me....be back soon to finish

by **mark s** on Fri Jun 29, 2012 6:56 pm

I'll not throw stones.

I have my trepidations, but so far, I'm still being taken care of. And that's on God, not on Kaiser.

I don't know what is best, but God does, for each of us. I'm praying and trusting that He will continue to take care of me.

Love in Christ,
Mark

by **SueAnn** on Fri Jun 29, 2012 7:20 pm

He finally got a job working for an independent shop. But the job had no benefits. I called every health insurance carrier, including ones advertised on TV and every carrier online. They all wanted to accept me, but all but one declined coverage for hubby (pre-existing condition). The one company that would cover us both quoted us $1600 a month. Laughable. With only one income, it was out of the question. We went for 5 years without any coverage. We both have health issues. Our doctor charged us half the cost for a doctor visit. We found one pharmacy (Rite Aid) that put us on a special program that gives deep discounts on prescriptions. Our prescripts would have been over $300 a month without the wonderful Rite Aid folks. We were unable to find a lab that would give us a break on bloodwork. ONE bill I received (Thyroid bloodwork) cost $800. It took me a year to pay off that bill.

When the independent shop that hubby worked at decided to cut their payroll costs, hubby was one that got laid off. After a few months of subsistence on umemployment, he finally found another job. And miracle of miracles, he begged for, and received a promise of health insurance for both of us. It took more than 6 months for the employer to add us to the company policy. A month after we were finally added hubby had to have several eye surgeries. The eye surgeon wanted to be paid UPFRONT. Because we had that insurance, we only had to come up with $800 cash before surgery. The insurance covered the rest of the almost $15,000 bills. Before Obamacare, the claims would have been rejected by the insurance company, for pre-existing condition. But Obamacare made the insurance company pay for the claims, except for the deductible.

Hubby's boss complains constantly about the cost of health insurance. I have no doubt that within the year hubby will either lose the coverage or his job or both. Then what? Obamacare might be awful to people who who have health insurance as a benefit at work. But for people like us, Obamacare has already been a blessing. Repeal it and replace it with what???? I keep hearing Romney promising repeal. He is not so articulate about what he is going to do to keep those shyster insurance companies from hurting millions of Americans , as they have in the past.

I have heard all the complaints about Obamacare. What I'm not hearing is what do hubby and I do if it is repealed?

by **brandon** on Sat Jun 30, 2012 4:53 am

Hubby's boss complains constantly about the cost of health insurance. I have no doubt that within the year hubby will either lose the coverage or his job or both. Then what? Obamacare might be awful to people who who have health insurance as a benefit at work. But for people like us, Obamacare has already been a blessing. Repeal it and replace it with what???? I keep hearing Romney promising repeal. He is not so articulate about what he is going to do to keep those shyster insurance companies from hurting millions of Americans , as they have in the past.

I don't think anyone will throw rocks at you for feeling the way you do. Remember, though, that the private health insurance companies you liken to shysters are there for the healthy, not for the sick. That's the business model. They don't WANT to pay for major surgeries, or else they don't make a profit. They are there for the healthy in case they get sick, or need something major.

That's the cold, hard truth.

I thank God every day that I've had health insurances through my company (and the state for my 1st son) for our 3 pregnancies because of their extremely high cost. But that's the business of health care. All of those machines, doctors, specialists, RNA's, LNA's, administrators, all cost money. The way to fix health care is to go back to the days prior to fancy MRI equipment, when people pretty much always died from serious diseases like cancer because there was no way to fight it. Since no one (including me!) wants to do that, and no one can figure out how those in harder places in their life can pay for the things you're describing, we're left in the mess we're in.

To me it always comes back to America's original philosophy: freedom > security. Obamacare takes away freedom to provide security. And that's how it is in this world. Only in Christ do we get both of these things. God won't allow the world to provide them both, and so we should assume there will never be a "right" option that satisfied both freedom and security.

So you have to decide for yourself, which of these things is more valuable to you, and most in line with our system of government. Do you believe that health insurance is a universal human right (I don't think it is, but I do believe humans have a God-given responsibility to care for those who can't care for themselves)?

by **GodsStudent** on Sat Jun 30, 2012 8:27 am

I've had two major surgeries since 2010, and have been so stunned at the bills I received from the hospital that I have hired a private company to evaluate the bills for errors or overages. Turns out in both cases that my surgery was billed at more than twice what an insurance company would be billed for the same surgery on an insured person.

My teeth cleanings and dental work cost more than twice what an insured person's dental work and teeth cleaning would cost.

Procedures, tests at the doctor's office, blood work and the same sent to laboratories, often times, the same thing.

In both surgeries, I paid up front about what an insurance company would charge for the same surgery TOTAL. Still, I have a 24K bill and a 30k bill left to pay, post down payment.

Why don't I have insurance? I am self employed and have been quoted outrageous premiums, if a company would even quote me. I had a doctor diagnose me as a diabetic because my blood sugars run a TINY bit over what is normal (mine averages in the 130s in the morning fasting, and it's not supposed to be over 120). Well....I couldn't even get insurance after that diagnosis and was offered the "state pool" or major medical only for what most people pay a month in their house payment. I don't take medication for diabetes, I control what I eat and my sugar levels are fine, but that was all the insurance companies needed to deny me coverage, and they did.

I am quite unhappy about Obamacare as it erodes liberties from us, but alternately, Obamacare is going to save the government and our citizens money, because if I get really sick again, say a heart attack....I don't have $100-$300k to throw at a receptionist to treat me when I hit the hospital writhing in pain.

by **jgilberAZ** on Sat Jun 30, 2012 10:52 am

Obamacare is going to save the government and our citizens money

How is that even remotely possible?

The government does not generate any income. Every penny it gets it takes from hard working citizens.

Everything the government involves itself in get worse. Want government health care? Take a look at the Veteran's Administration's running of healthcare for vets. It is absolutely horrible.

So, the government takes money from people who DO generate income, and poorly distributes it to inefficent, bloated, and ineffective programs.

And this is supposed to make things better?

by **Salty Skipper** on Sat Jun 30, 2012 12:20 pm

.02...nothing more...

We need reform of some sort, most folks agree. I have a large problem with government-run health care systems. There's too much room for abuse. I've talked to a few folks on the front line lately and so many people who need help can't get it and so many who have absolutely no need for it take advantage of the system. And to boot, many of those who abuse the system are the very ones who doctor shop and order their large quantity of meds so that they can sell them on the street. At least in this state. Then those who really, really need assistance (often temporary, sometimes long-term) can't get it to save their life. It's a huge...no, a behemoth of a problem and there is no perfect fix for it. Sometimes, republics get too big for their britches. (i. e. ...empires)

by **Jericho** on Sat Jun 30, 2012 1:04 pm

I have heard all the complaints about Obamacare. What I'm not hearing is what do hubby and I do if it is repealed?

The only thing we can do in situations such as these is to put our trust in God. I don't have health insurance either and I've been to the doctor's five times this year alone so I know how expensive it can be. If I had my way I would get rid of insurance companies altogether as all insurance really seems to do is drive the price up, but I digress. Most agree the current system needs some kind of reform but Obamacare is not the way to go. I don't trust anything Obama does is in our best interests, its about control and overwhelming the system. Were giving the government more say when it comes to our health not to mention going further down the road to socialism, and we see how well that's working out with Europe. The prescient is being set for the government to force us to buy something rather we want it or not, who knows what dark trail that will take us down. Expect rationed care, expect sub-par quality. The government is never going to give you the best they will give you just enough to get by, they don't care about you as much as you care about yourself. And remember nothing in life is ever free, there is always a price to pay.

by **Abiding in His Word** on Sat Jun 30, 2012 1:40 pm

Anyone here live in Canada? Might be interesting to research the success of their healthcare system. Right now, I've landed on this site. The author of the article is a Canadian resident and a U.S.citizen so he's comparing healthcare from both perspectives. Although it's written in 2008, still has the basic true/false myths about each.

by **lamb7** on Sat Jun 30, 2012 2:27 pm

Abiding in His Word wrote:Anyone here live in Canada? Might be interesting to research the success of their healthcare system. Right now, I've landed on this site. The author of the article is a Canadian resident and a U.S.citizen so he's comparing healthcare from both perspectives. Although it's written in 2008, still has the basic true/false myths about each.

I've lived here in Canada since 1984, grew up in St. Louis. I am still trying to understand the system of this new Obamacare and have some more reading to do. As to us here across the border, well, I have to admit that there are times when the wait in emergency can be very long, but this is due mainly to when very serious patients who come in like a heart attack or some other serious ailment. The main problems are that there aren't enough doctors and nurses. A lot of the nursing students go off to say Australia where they will get a better pay, so lately there have been incentives to keep these needed professionals in the country or to bring others here.

Other than that it is basically free medical care. Each person holds a healthcare card that is to be presented at the front desk and you go in and get taken care of. No one is forced to get this card, but if you do not have one then you are charged the regular medical fees. This does not cover prescriptions though. These are covered by companies or insurances just like in the U.S.

You don't receive any bills and you are never turned away. Abiding, that article is the basic gist of the system up here, everything he has written is true and the system has been very skewed to Americans and I have a feeling it was so that you would not demand something similar, unfortunately. It works and it is not a stress or worry that anyone feels. I wish it could be the same down there. I just wonder why it couldn't be something like we have here and that is why I wish to familiar myself with what they are offering and what the true difference will be.

by **Abiding in His Word** on Sat Jun 30, 2012 2:42 pm

Thanks, lamb7. I doubt we're even ready to sort it all out since the GOP is threatening to scrap it and start from the bottom up on implementing a healthcare system that's more to their liking. :mrgreen:

In other words, I don't think all the provisions have been made public yet. At least I've only seen the media focus on the "tax" aspect and their surprise at the Supreme Court's passage of the bill. More details should be coming soon I would think.

by **Abiding in His Word** on Sat Jun 30, 2012 4:59 pm

Another insight as the ACA provisions unravel.

Just what problems have we solved now that the Affordable Care Act has been upheld? We should rightly celebrate that no American will be denied the ability to get health care because of a pre-existing condition, and that many children will remain on parents’ health plans for more time.

But at its heart, the bill was designed to extend private insurance to the largest (politically) possible number of the now 60 million uninsured Americans, and then expand the public safety net for the remainder. To do this, the ACA comprises a “three-legged stool” of policies: a mandate for employers and individuals to buy health insurance if they can afford it, a prohibition on insurers from barring any buyers, and, finally, a massive expansion of free health care for the poor.

According to optimistic projections from the Congressional Budget Office, the ACA as written would only halve the number of uninsured—from 60 million down to 30 million—by 2022. Thus, even with the ACA safe, one-half of all currently uninsured Americans are still projected to lack coverage.

continues

by **daffodyllady** on Sat Jun 30, 2012 5:25 pm

SueAnn, I feel for you. I have never had health coverage in my entire life. Too poor. God has provided every need, anyhow.

I still wonder if ObamaCare is a good thing. I doubt it!
This is why...

1. Insurance companies are not allowed to turn anyone down. That means all premiums have to go up drastically.
Everyone has been telling me that is exactly what has happened, since this provision has gone into effect.
2. Those who can just barely afford to pay the exorbitant premiums will have their incomes lowered, in effect, to those who cannot afford to buy a policy. Thus, the Supreme-Court defined TAX is not only the greatest tax hike ever to happen to the middle class in the history of America, but also is the greatest wealth transfer from the middle class to the poor in history.
3. Those who are young and healthy, will opt to pay the TAX (penalty) instead of buying a policy. This will not buy them coverage, but only will help them survive financially as long as their health holds up. When a major illness befalls them, they will quickly go buy a policy to cover their treatment, because doing so will be more cost effective.
4. Under the Supreme Court ruling, states can opt out of expanding Medicare to cover the poor. Yet, those poor will still be under obligation to either buy insurance, or else pay the penalty tax. Therefore, you would be falling through the cracks even worse than before!
5. The health care act does NOT guarantee access to health care. First, you have to have a doctor that will accept your policy, which ObamaCare does not ensure. Next, you have to have enough doctors to go around, which ObamaCare policies discourage!

I have concluded that ObamaCare is actually designed to make such a big mess of our current insurance system, as to pave the way for public acceptance of a Canadian-style system.

by **kirthril** on Sat Jun 30, 2012 5:32 pm

And to think this whole "unaffordable health insurance crisis" could have been solved by just allowing people to buy insurance across state lines and open the HC insurance industry up to competition. Competition drives down prices. Period.

by **Sword of Geddon** on Sat Jun 30, 2012 5:52 pm

The federal government has no business being in health care. The only role of the federal goverment is to protect the country..and build roads.

by **Exit40** on Sun Jul 01, 2012 6:47 am

Sword of Geddon wrote:The federal government has no business being in health care. The only role of the federal goverment is to protect the country..and build roads.

That's how all this got started.

God Bless You

David

by **Jericho** on Sun Jul 01, 2012 10:15 am

Sword of Geddon wrote:The federal government has no business being in health care. The only role of the federal goverment is to protect the country..and build roads.

Seems the federal government has there nose in everything nowadays, from what we should eat to gay marriage. None of which the government has any business in, where does it end?. They talk so much about job creation but this is also not the role of the federal government. In fact the government can't actually create jobs, the best it can do is to try to create conditions favorable for jobs to flourish. What we see is a power grab by the federal government, particularly the executive branch (Whose at war with anyone who disagrees with him or stand in his way of "progress").

by **laney** on Mon Jul 02, 2012 12:31 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ay3Al1ED ... ture=share

Important to watch this! Did you know that you could be chipped with this Obamacare?

by **Sword of Geddon** on Mon Jul 02, 2012 6:46 pm

Jericho wrote:
Sword of Geddon wrote:The federal government has no business being in health care. The only role of the federal goverment is to protect the country..and build roads.

Seems the federal government has there nose in everything nowadays, from what we should eat to gay marriage. None of which the government has any business in, where does it end?. They talk so much about job creation but this is also not the role of the federal government. In fact the government can't actually create jobs, the best it can do is to try to create conditions favorable for jobs to flourish. What we see is a power grab by the federal government, particularly the executive branch (Whose at war with anyone who disagrees with him or stand in his way of "progress").

I believe Obama has for his entire adult life been working towards establishing himself as Supreme Ruler/Dictator.

When he was a college professor, he often taught about how to take power from the "haves" and give it to the "have nots". In the United States, power(at least in theory) resides with the people, as this is supposed to be a Constitutional Republic. In that case the "have nots" would be himself, and his friends.