Why did God create evil?

[Shelby]

http://heavenshelpers.org/?id=116&page= ... d%27s+Plan

[WalkingWithJesus]

God did not create evil, he created all that is good. Satan and man created evil.

[bchandler]

I would caution anyone who reads this study, that it is presented from a standpoint of God actually being the source of both good and evil in the universe.

I did not go very far in the document before i bailed... i can't stomach it.

But i will respond to it's basic premise.

1. YHWH created everything good. He did not ever create evil.
2. We know from the word that Satan became conceited, proud, and jealous of YHWH. (He chose to fall, YHWH didn't make him fall.)
3. We know from the word that Satan deceived Eve, and as a result influenced Adam to sin against YHWH. (He chose to fall, YHWH didn't make him fall.)
4. We know from the word that Satan is a liar, and a Murderer... his actions in the Garden of Eden actually murdered all of humanity. Both spiritually and physically.
5. John 3:16 tells us that YHWH has an AGAPE love for the whole world. AGAPE is a fatherly love borne of familial duty, honor, and obligation.
6. This means that YHWH took responsibility for restoring his fallen damaged creation, and made a way for us to be reconciled to him.
7. He planned that reconciliation from before the foundation of the Earth. By his foreknowledge.
8. YHWH didn't stop Satan, or Adam because he gave them free moral agency, and refused to interfere with their choice.
9. Adam's bad choice enslaved all of humanity to sin.
10. Yashua Messiah's sacrifice gave us back that free moral agency, and atoned for us. If we choose to believe on him.

YHWH does not ever create evil... but it does exist in the world (because of our SIN)... through no fault of his own... but he does promise us that ALL things work together for good... but only to them that trust YHWH. He may allow evil to do certain things, but only because in the end, it will either glorify him, bring others to him, turn others away from sin, or all of the above. Just because he turns someone over to suffer the consequences of their sin and hate of him and his truth, doesn't make him the source of the evil that comes upon them. YHWH doesn't place them in the hands of the tormentors, they place themselves in the hands of their tormentors. YHWH only controls the timing of when he allows the tormentors to have their due.

YHWH is never the source of evil, and evil can not be removed from the world without removing free will choice... at least until the time period within which to allow that choice expires. There is an eventual deadline.

[1whowaits]

God did not create evil, He created selfawareness, intelligence, and free will. This combination produces a choice, an ability to choose, to choose to follow the will of God, or to follow the will of oneself. One choice produces good, the other evil. God does not make the choice for us, we choose it ourselves, in essence we create evil.

[Shelby]

God didn't create evil?

Isaiah 45:7
I form the light and create darkness; I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.

[bchandler]

Isa 45:7 I formH3335 the light,H216 and createH1254 darkness:H2822 I makeH6213 peace,H7965 and createH1254 evil:H7451 IH589 the LORDH3068 doH6213 allH3605 theseH428 things.

In each case the word translated as create can also mean to "cut down"... which certainly makes more sense to my mind.

H1254
בּרא
bârâ'
baw-raw'
A primitive root; (absolutely) to create; (qualified) to cut down (a wood), select, feed (as formative processes): - choose, create (creator), cut down, dispatch, do, make (fat).

Any of the bolded definitions would fit better to the character of the rest of scripture and the character of YHWH.

As i stated earlier... just because YHWH dispatches evil (turns someone over to the tormentors) doesn't make him the source of it... it simply means he has removed his protection and permitted the tormentors to take what they have a right to. Because of the sin of the sinner.

[Shelby]

It's an act of mercy that God delivers one to the tormentors so they will be miserable and repent of any unforgiveness to be able to gain eternal life with Him. It seems hard and cruel at the time but it is an act of mercy.

[bchandler]

now that i will agree with... the word also talks about delivering one up to death, destroying the flesh in order to save the soul, and prevent someone from falling-away.

Some, who have already rejected the love of the truth, are also hardened and used to show forth YHWH's judgments and justice.

[daffodyllady]

Some things are difficult to understand in this life, with our limited human reasoning powers. I believe that God did create the possibility of evil, knowing that evil would come because of His choice to create free will... Therefore, God is supreme over the origin of evil.

Job argued with his Maker over such things. Did God feel He was duty bound to make himself understandable to his servant Job? no. Rather, he rebuked Job, asking him if a created human should require his Maker to answer questions.

In eternity, we shall know as we are known. We will finally know God as He knows us. How I long for that day!

Until then, I will live in simple faith, not requiring God to explain everything to my understanding, and knowing that God is good, holding all power in His hands.

[mark s]

God didn't create evil?

Isaiah 45:7
I form the light and create darkness; I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.

This can also be translated, "I make peace, and create calamity".

fwiw . . .

[bchandler]

Some things are difficult to understand in this life, with our limited human reasoning powers. I believe that God did create the possibility of evil, knowing that evil would come because of His choice to create free will... Therefore, God is supreme over the origin of evil.

Job argued with his Maker over such things. Did God feel He was duty bound to make himself understandable to his servant Job? no. Rather, he rebuked Job, asking him if a created human should require his Maker to answer questions.

In eternity, we shall know as we are known. We will finally know God as He knows us. How I long for that day!

Until then, I will live in simple faith, not requiring God to explain everything to my understanding, and knowing that God is good, holding all power in His hands.

and

[seetiger33]

I dont need to be rescued if I am not drowning right?
In other words I see more Love in a God that allows evil to dwell through out free will.
He is Holy and perfect yet allows all things to continue instead of just destroying it.

I see a tsunami in Japan as Love and compassion not as evil. God with one breath could destroy us all.
Yet only a small section of the earth was destoyed so we have a warning. "COME ALL WHO ARE BURDENED HE WILL GIVE YOU REST".
Am I less sinful? No Jesus says "Unless you repent you to shall perish".
God is a great and wonderful God. I will serve him evil or no evil.

[MChat]

Was the fall part of God's eternal plan? Yes.
Does this mean that God "created" evil? No.

God is soveriegn, meaning that nothing happens unless God allows it to happen. Everything happens according to His plan, but He uses sinful men (and even fallen angels) to willfully carry out His plan. God did not force Satan to rebel; God did not force Satan to tempt Eve; God did not force Eve to disobey Him; and God did not force Adam to disobey Him. Likewise, nobody forced Judas to betray Jesus; nobody forced the Jews to seek the Crucifixion of Jesus; nobody forced Pilate to agree to crucify Him. All of these men did what they did of their own free will; they're actions were not forced by God, but they did happen according to God's plan.

God also has a purpose in His plan. Here's a question you ought to study out: What was God's purpose in the fall of man?

Here's some clues: Grace, Mercy, Unconditional Love and the Full Revelation of His Son (the Cross was NOT "Plan B" it was alway "Plan A" -- God is Omniscient, as such He has no need for a "Plan B").

[bchandler]

I think you need to distinguish between perfect will and permissive will.

Was creation's fall part of YHWH's perfect will... No
But it was within what he chose to permit, due to the free will choices of his creations.

YHWH knew what would happen by perfect foreknowledge and made a plan from the beginning to save as much as he could.

So yes, salvation was always plan A... Only because YHWH foreknew that his creation would not remain within his perfect will.

[Jericho]

As others have said it all comes down to free will. With free will comes the possibility for some to choose to do evil. God knew Satan would fall as He did Adam, he could have stepped in and stopped them before they fell but would that really be free will? I believe that God has let things play out for us to face the consequences of our actions and teach us what happens when when we think our way is better.

However since we do live in a fallen world where pain, suffering, and evil exists we do gain some insights and perspectives that we would have never had. We learn faith, perseverance, and courage. Attributes we never would have developed in paradise. We fully understand the consequences of Sin and gain a new appreciation for Heaven. The Angels also gain new insights into the Character of God by witnessing how he deals with us. Through seeing the crucifixion and the lengths God went to redeem us they learn about God's grace and the depths of his love for his creation. Things which even the angels desire to look into. Peter 1:12

So as the scriptures say, "all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to [His] purpose." Rom 8:28. When all is said and done and we look back in eternity at this life, we will be grateful for the lessons we have learned. And we will have gained a greater understanding of the character, nature, and love of God.

[Abiding in His Word]

Great post, SwordofGideon! I agree that God has gifted us with the ability to make choices that we call free will and progressively teaches us through His Holy Spirit to make right choices according to His Word.

[Shelby]

My point in posting the article was not to say that God is any way evil. But that God uses evil for refining and perfecting His children. That God is in full control and allows the enemy to come at us for a greater and higher purpose. What the devil means for our harm God turns it around for our good. Rejoice at the fiery trial that shall try you. God disciplines those He loves and uses the enemy as a tool in that discipline. Those who live Godly in Christ Jesus will be persecuted. The article discusses this more towards the end. Is the enemy coming against you? Good! He doesn't attack his friends but his enemies. And God is in control and has higher purpose in it. Yes, we have choices but we are not in control of the circumstances we find ourselves in. Circumstances that include having to deal with people that have an antichrist spirit and their target is those with the fruits of the Holy Spirit If you are a part of the world the world will love you if you are not a part of the world expect the enemy to come against you. God is sovereign over all that happens to us. The enemy doesn't have any more permission to come against us than what God allows.

[brandon]

I buy into human responsibility for our choices, but not into free will. Free will is an impossible concept, since mankind is either a slave to sin or a slave to righteousness (Romans 6). Because of man's ability to reason, think, and emote, God has promised to hold us accountable for what we think and what we do. But man's ability to reason, think, and emote is not outside of God's control at all. Man is not free from God's influence or control, even over our will.

That's why the apostle Peter stated that the leads of the Jews in Israel and their Romans committed the greatest act of moral injustice ever (the murder of the Christ) by God's predetermined plan. They are responsible for their evil, even though they were God's secondary agents for His will being accomplished.

What people don't understand is God's purposes to create something greater through the fallen state of this present creation, whereby Christ is that firstfruit from the dead. Thus the ruin of this world will give birth to something greater, infinitely superior to what was created beforehand. Can you actually read through Revelation, compare Genesis, and not see what is the greater?

So God has a good purpose in creating evil (which is the answer to why evil exists, not the free will defense).

The most accurate analogy in my mind for how to view the metaphysics of God's decreed will is that God is the author of history, of the great play of all creations, ever, and this play He has written includes something that reveals His eternal attributes of both mercy and wrath. Outside of humanity, no other creation that we know of has experienced God's fierce wrath and anger, and His love and mercy.