The Folly of Fulfillment Theology A new form of Replacement

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The Folly of Fulfillment Theology A new form of Replacement

Postby st louis steve on Fri Apr 20, 2012 10:35 am

http://int.icej.org/news/commentary/fol ... t-theology
The Folly of Fulfillment Theology

A new form of Replacement Theology

Rev. Malcolm Hedding
Posted on:
Wed, 11 Apr 2012
In recent years a new form of Replacement Theology has arrived on the Christian scene called Fulfillment Theology. Like Replacement Theology it ends up contending that, since the time of Jesus, the Jews no longer enjoy a god-given national destiny in the land of Canaan. This time around it is not the Church that replaces Israel and takes over all her promises in scripture but in fact Jesus. He fulfills in His life and redemptive work all the promises that God ever made to the Jews; even the promise that Canaan would be the everlasting possession of the Jewish people! Jesus is the Promised Land. This allows the proponents of this theory to distance themselves from the awful evil (as in the Apartheid State) and anti-Semitic consequences (as in the Christian pogroms of history) of Replacement Theology. However, they end up believing the same thing!
God and Israel’s modern day restoration
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Re: The Folly of Fulfillment Theology A new form of Replacement

Postby Reconciled on Fri Apr 20, 2012 7:35 pm

This really belongs under Apostasy Watch ... maybe a mod could move it there.

Just another twist on another false teaching.
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Re: The Folly of Fulfillment Theology A new form of Replacement

Postby jgilberAZ on Sat Apr 21, 2012 1:35 pm

... the Jews no longer enjoy a god-given national destiny in the land of Canaan.


Where is the scriptural support for stating the opposite ... that the Jews do, in fact, have a god-given national destiny in the land of Canaan?

And, referring to "Jews," please clarify if you're speaking of:

All those who worship modern day Judaism?
All those who are blood relatives of Jacob whether they know it or not?
All those who live in a tiny nation in the ME called Israel?
All those who refer to themselves Jews?


The Apostle Paul wrote:Rom 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.



The Apostle Paul wrote:Gal 3:28-29 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
2 Timothy 2:24a..And the servant of the Lord must not strive ...
The meaning is, that the servant of Christ should be a man of peace. He should not indulge in the feelings which commonly give rise to contention, and which commonly characterize it. He should not struggle for mere victory, even when endeavoring to maintain truth; but should do this, in all cases, with a kind spirit, and a mild temper; with entire candor; with nothing designed to provoke and irritate an adversary; and so that, whatever may be the result of the discussion, "the bond of peace" may, if possible, be preserved.
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Re: The Folly of Fulfillment Theology A new form of Replacement

Postby mark s on Sat Apr 21, 2012 11:50 pm

Zechariah 12:3-14 ESV
(3) On that day I will make Jerusalem a heavy stone for all the peoples. All who lift it will surely hurt themselves. And all the nations of the earth will gather against it.
(4) On that day, declares the LORD, I will strike every horse with panic, and its rider with madness. But for the sake of the house of Judah I will keep my eyes open, when I strike every horse of the peoples with blindness.
(5) Then the clans of Judah shall say to themselves, 'The inhabitants of Jerusalem have strength through the LORD of hosts, their God.'
(6) "On that day I will make the clans of Judah like a blazing pot in the midst of wood, like a flaming torch among sheaves. And they shall devour to the right and to the left all the surrounding peoples, while Jerusalem shall again be inhabited in its place, in Jerusalem.
(7) "And the LORD will give salvation to the tents of Judah first, that the glory of the house of David and the glory of the inhabitants of Jerusalem may not surpass that of Judah.
(8) On that day the LORD will protect the inhabitants of Jerusalem, so that the feeblest among them on that day shall be like David, and the house of David shall be like God, like the angel of the LORD, going before them.
(9) And on that day I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.
(10) "And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and pleas for mercy, so that, when they look on me, on him whom they have pierced, they shall mourn for him, as one mourns for an only child, and weep bitterly over him, as one weeps over a firstborn.
(11) On that day the mourning in Jerusalem will be as great as the mourning for Hadad-rimmon in the plain of Megiddo.
(12) The land shall mourn, each family by itself: the family of the house of David by itself, and their wives by themselves; the family of the house of Nathan by itself, and their wives by themselves;
(13) the family of the house of Levi by itself, and their wives by themselves; the family of the Shimeites by itself, and their wives by themselves;
(14) and all the families that are left, each by itself, and their wives by themselves.


Ezekiel 39:22-29 ESV
(22) The house of Israel shall know that I am the LORD their God, from that day forward.
(23) And the nations shall know that the house of Israel went into captivity for their iniquity, because they dealt so treacherously with me that I hid my face from them and gave them into the hand of their adversaries, and they all fell by the sword.
(24) I dealt with them according to their uncleanness and their transgressions, and hid my face from them.
(25) "Therefore thus says the Lord GOD: Now I will restore the fortunes of Jacob and have mercy on the whole house of Israel, and I will be jealous for my holy name.
(26) They shall forget their shame and all the treachery they have practiced against me, when they dwell securely in their land with none to make them afraid,
(27) when I have brought them back from the peoples and gathered them from their enemies' lands, and through them have vindicated my holiness in the sight of many nations.
(28) Then they shall know that I am the LORD their God, because I sent them into exile among the nations and then assembled them into their own land. I will leave none of them remaining among the nations anymore.
(29) And I will not hide my face anymore from them, when I pour out my Spirit upon the house of Israel, declares the Lord GOD."


Matthew 19:27-28 ESV
(27) Then Peter said in reply, "See, we have left everything and followed you. What then will we have?"
(28) Jesus said to them, "Truly, I say to you, in the new world, when the Son of Man will sit on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.


Micah 4:6-7 ESV
(6) In that day, declares the LORD, I will assemble the lame and gather those who have been driven away and those whom I have afflicted;
(7) and the lame I will make the remnant, and those who were cast off, a strong nation; and the LORD will reign over them in Mount Zion from this time forth and forevermore.

Ezekiel 36:22-38 ESV
(22) "Therefore say to the house of Israel, Thus says the Lord GOD: It is not for your sake, O house of Israel, that I am about to act, but for the sake of my holy name, which you have profaned among the nations to which you came.
(23) And I will vindicate the holiness of my great name, which has been profaned among the nations, and which you have profaned among them. And the nations will know that I am the LORD, declares the Lord GOD, when through you I vindicate my holiness before their eyes.
(24) I will take you from the nations and gather you from all the countries and bring you into your own land.
(25) I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean from all your uncleannesses, and from all your idols I will cleanse you.
(26) And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh.
(27) And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes and be careful to obey my rules.
(28) You shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers, and you shall be my people, and I will be your God.
(29) And I will deliver you from all your uncleannesses. And I will summon the grain and make it abundant and lay no famine upon you.
(30) I will make the fruit of the tree and the increase of the field abundant, that you may never again suffer the disgrace of famine among the nations.
(31) Then you will remember your evil ways, and your deeds that were not good, and you will loathe yourselves for your iniquities and your abominations.
(32) It is not for your sake that I will act, declares the Lord GOD; let that be known to you. Be ashamed and confounded for your ways, O house of Israel.
(33) "Thus says the Lord GOD: On the day that I cleanse you from all your iniquities, I will cause the cities to be inhabited, and the waste places shall be rebuilt.
(34) And the land that was desolate shall be tilled, instead of being the desolation that it was in the sight of all who passed by.
(35) And they will say, 'This land that was desolate has become like the garden of Eden, and the waste and desolate and ruined cities are now fortified and inhabited.'
(36) Then the nations that are left all around you shall know that I am the LORD; I have rebuilt the ruined places and replanted that which was desolate. I am the LORD; I have spoken, and I will do it.
(37) "Thus says the Lord GOD: This also I will let the house of Israel ask me to do for them: to increase their people like a flock.
(38) Like the flock for sacrifices, like the flock at Jerusalem during her appointed feasts, so shall the waste cities be filled with flocks of people. Then they will know that I am the LORD."

There are more, but I can finish for now with this one . . .


Deuteronomy 4:26-31 ESV
(26) I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that you will soon utterly perish from the land that you are going over the Jordan to possess. You will not live long in it, but will be utterly destroyed.
(27) And the LORD will scatter you among the peoples, and you will be left few in number among the nations where the LORD will drive you.
(28) And there you will serve gods of wood and stone, the work of human hands, that neither see, nor hear, nor eat, nor smell.
(29) But from there you will seek the LORD your God and you will find him, if you search after him with all your heart and with all your soul.
(30) When you are in tribulation, and all these things come upon you in the latter days, you will return to the LORD your God and obey his voice.
(31) For the LORD your God is a merciful God. He will not leave you or destroy you or forget the covenant with your fathers that he swore to them.

We don't have to guess what that covenant is, God tells us:

Deuteronomy 4:36-40 ESV
(36) Out of heaven he let you hear his voice, that he might discipline you. And on earth he let you see his great fire, and you heard his words out of the midst of the fire.
(37) And because he loved your fathers and chose their offspring after them and brought you out of Egypt with his own presence, by his great power,
(38) driving out before you nations greater and mightier than yourselves, to bring you in, to give you their land for an inheritance, as it is this day,
(39) know therefore today, and lay it to your heart, that the LORD is God in heaven above and on the earth beneath; there is no other.
(40) Therefore you shall keep his statutes and his commandments, which I command you today, that it may go well with you and with your children after you, and that you may prolong your days in the land that the LORD your God is giving you for all time."


Love in Christ,
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ειπεν αυτη ο ιησους εγω ειμι η αναστασις και η ζωη ο πιστευων εις εμε καν αποθανη ζησεται
. . . saying to her Jesus, I AM the resurrection and the life, the one believing into Me even dying shall live . . .
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Re: The Folly of Fulfillment Theology A new form of Replacement

Postby jgilberAZ on Sun Apr 22, 2012 2:24 pm

.
Possession of the land is conditional upon obedience.

Is the nation of Israel today (Jews and Arabs) obeying God?



Now therefore, if you will indeed obey my voice and keep my covenant, you shall be my treasured possession among all peoples, for all the earth is mine;
(Exodus 19:5 ESV)

“When you father children and children's children, and have grown old in the land, if you act corruptly by making a carved image in the form of anything, and by doing what is evil in the sight of the LORD your God, so as to provoke him to anger, I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that you will soon utterly perish from the land that you are going over the Jordan to possess. You will not live long in it, but will be utterly destroyed.
(Deuteronomy 4:25-26 ESV)

“And because you listen to these rules and keep and do them, the LORD your God will keep with you the covenant and the steadfast love that he swore to your fathers. He will love you, bless you, and multiply you. He will also bless the fruit of your womb and the fruit of your ground, your grain and your wine and your oil, the increase of your herds and the young of your flock, in the land that he swore to your fathers to give you.
(Deuteronomy 7:12-13 ESV)

Take care lest your heart be deceived, and you turn aside and serve other gods and worship them; then the anger of the LORD will be kindled against you, and he will shut up the heavens, so that there will be no rain, and the land will yield no fruit, and you will perish quickly off the good land that the LORD is giving you.
(Deuteronomy 11:16-17 ESV)

But just as all the good things that the LORD your God promised concerning you have been fulfilled for you, so the LORD will bring upon you all the evil things, until he has destroyed you from off this good land that the LORD your God has given you, if you transgress the covenant of the LORD your God, which he commanded you, and go and serve other gods and bow down to them. Then the anger of the LORD will be kindled against you, and you shall perish quickly from off the good land that he has given to you.”
(Joshua 23:15-16 ESV)

But if you turn aside from following me, you or your children, and do not keep my commandments and my statutes that I have set before you, but go and serve other gods and worship them, then I will cut off Israel from the land that I have given them, and the house that I have consecrated for my name I will cast out of my sight, and Israel will become a proverb and a byword among all peoples. And this house will become a heap of ruins. Everyone passing by it will be astonished and will hiss, and they will say, ‘Why has the LORD done thus to this land and to this house?’ Then they will say, ‘Because they abandoned the LORD their God who brought their fathers out of the land of Egypt and laid hold on other gods and worshiped them and served them. Therefore the LORD has brought all this disaster on them.’”
(1 Kings 9:6-9 ESV)

And I will not cause the feet of Israel to wander anymore out of the land that I gave to their fathers, if only they will be careful to do according to all that I have commanded them, and according to all the Law that my servant Moses commanded them.” But they did not listen, and Manasseh led them astray to do more evil than the nations had done whom the LORD destroyed before the people of Israel.
(2 Kings 21:8-9 ESV)

Remember the word that you commanded your servant Moses, saying, ‘If you are unfaithful, I will scatter you among the peoples, but if you return to me and keep my commandments and do them, though your outcasts are in the uttermost parts of heaven, from there I will gather them and bring them to the place that I have chosen, to make my name dwell there.’
(Nehemiah 1:8-9 ESV)

Thus says the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel: Amend your ways and your deeds, and I will let you dwell in this place. Do not trust in these deceptive words: ‘This is the temple of the LORD, the temple of the LORD, the temple of the LORD.’ “For if you truly amend your ways and your deeds, if you truly execute justice one with another, if you do not oppress the sojourner, the fatherless, or the widow, or shed innocent blood in this place, and if you do not go after other gods to your own harm,
(Jeremiah 7:3-6 ESV)

“Son of man, the inhabitants of these waste places in the land of Israel keep saying, ‘Abraham was only one man, yet he got possession of the land; but we are many; the land is surely given us to possess.’ Therefore say to them, Thus says the Lord GOD: You eat flesh with the blood and lift up your eyes to your idols and shed blood; shall you then possess the land? You rely on the sword, you commit abominations, and each of you defiles his neighbor's wife; shall you then possess the land?
(Ezekiel 33:24-26 ESV)




The nation of Israel as it is now is clearly in disobedience to both the Old Covenant and the New Covenant, and therefore has no divine right of possession of the land according to God's own Word.

This is not to say there is no prophetic significance to their existence, however.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Israel
As of 2009, 8% of Israeli Jews defined themselves as Haredim; an additional 12% as "religious"; 13% as "religious-traditionalists" ; 25% as "non-religious-traditionalists" (not strictly adhering to Jewish law or halakha); and 42% as "secular" (Hebrew: חִלּוֹנִי‎‎, Hiloni).[6] As of 1999, 65% of Israeli Jews believe in God,[7] and 85% participate in a Passover seder.[7] However, other sources indicate that between 15% and 37% of Israelis identify themselves as either agnostics or atheists.[8][unreliable source?]

Israelis tend not to align themselves with a movement of Judaism (such as Reform Judaism or Conservative Judaism) but instead tend to define their religious affiliation by degree of their religious practice. Of the Arab Israelis, as of 2008, 82.7% were Muslims, 8.4% were Druze, and 8.3% were Christians.[2] Just over 80% of Christians are Arabs, and the majority of the remaining are immigrants from the former Soviet Union who immigrated with a Jewish relative. About 81% of Christian births are to Arab women.[9]


Do the Arab Israeli's (82% muslim) have a divine right to the land? If not, then you must provide some other right-of-possesion than nationality (they ARE Israelis). Does every Jew around the world have a divine right to the land? Even if they are atheists, or agnostics, or muslims, or ??

What characteristic defines those who have a God-given right to the land? Obedience.
2 Timothy 2:24a..And the servant of the Lord must not strive ...
The meaning is, that the servant of Christ should be a man of peace. He should not indulge in the feelings which commonly give rise to contention, and which commonly characterize it. He should not struggle for mere victory, even when endeavoring to maintain truth; but should do this, in all cases, with a kind spirit, and a mild temper; with entire candor; with nothing designed to provoke and irritate an adversary; and so that, whatever may be the result of the discussion, "the bond of peace" may, if possible, be preserved.
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Re: The Folly of Fulfillment Theology A new form of Replacement

Postby Jericho on Sun Apr 22, 2012 4:58 pm

The Abrahamic Covenant is an unconditional convenient in which God defines the land given to Abraham and his descendants. The exact dimensions are described in Genesis 15:18-12 and look something like this: Image

Obviously they have not possed all the land because of there disobedience but that does not mean they are forfeit from it and will posses it all during the Millennial Reign.

"Therefore say, 'Thus says the Lord GOD, "I will gather you from the peoples and assemble you out of the countries among which you have been scattered, and I will give you the land of Israel."' Ezekiel 11:17

When God promised to bring them back into the land he didn't say they would be brought back in belief and obedience, this will come later during the tribulation and specifically the Millennium.

Other things to consider:
Abraham made a land purchase of the Machpelah Cave and adjoining field in Hebron. Gen 23
King David purchased Ornon's Threshing floor, which is the location of the Holy of Holies on the Temple Mount in Jerusalem, I Chronicles 21:18-30
Jacob purchased Shechem Gen 33:18-19
Many Jews purchased land in what is now Jordan during the British Mandate.
The Jewish Nation Fund, through the PLDC, purchased more than 70,000 hectares during the Mandate period, chiefly in the valleys - Jezreel, Zebulun, Jordan, Beit Shean, Huleh and Hefer - in the Haifa bay area and in the northern Negev.
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Re: The Folly of Fulfillment Theology A new form of Replacement

Postby jgilberAZ on Mon Apr 23, 2012 6:16 pm

.

On that day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, “To your offspring I give this land, from the river of Egypt to the great river, the river Euphrates, the land of the Kenites, the Kenizzites, the Kadmonites, the Hittites, the Perizzites, the Rephaim, the Amorites, the Canaanites, the Girgashites and the Jebusites." (Genesis 15:18-21 ESV)



Thus the LORD gave to Israel all the land that he swore to give to their fathers. And they took possession of it, and they settled there. And the LORD gave them rest on every side just as he had sworn to their fathers. Not one of all their enemies had withstood them, for the LORD had given all their enemies into their hands. Not one word of all the good promises that the LORD had made to the house of Israel had failed; all came to pass. (Joshua 21:43-45 ESV)


They received the promised land.

Continued possession of it always depends on obedience.


“And now I am about to go the way of all the earth, and you know in your hearts and souls, all of you, that not one word has failed of all the good things that the LORD your God promised concerning you. All have come to pass for you; not one of them has failed. But just as all the good things that the LORD your God promised concerning you have been fulfilled for you, so the LORD will bring upon you all the evil things, until he has destroyed you from off this good land that the LORD your God has given you, if you transgress the covenant of the LORD your God, which he commanded you, and go and serve other gods and bow down to them. Then the anger of the LORD will be kindled against you, and you shall perish quickly from off the good land that he has given to you.” (Joshua 23:14-16 ESV)
2 Timothy 2:24a..And the servant of the Lord must not strive ...
The meaning is, that the servant of Christ should be a man of peace. He should not indulge in the feelings which commonly give rise to contention, and which commonly characterize it. He should not struggle for mere victory, even when endeavoring to maintain truth; but should do this, in all cases, with a kind spirit, and a mild temper; with entire candor; with nothing designed to provoke and irritate an adversary; and so that, whatever may be the result of the discussion, "the bond of peace" may, if possible, be preserved.
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Re: The Folly of Fulfillment Theology A new form of Replacement

Postby mark s on Mon Apr 23, 2012 8:52 pm

jgilberAZ wrote:
Continued possession of it always depends on obedience.


So true!

Ezekiel 11:16-20 NKJV
(16) Therefore say, "Thus says the Lord GOD: "Although I have cast them far off among the Gentiles, and although I have scattered them among the countries, yet I shall be a little sanctuary for them in the countries where they have gone."'
(17) Therefore say, "Thus says the Lord GOD: "I will gather you from the peoples, assemble you from the countries where you have been scattered, and I will give you the land of Israel."'
(18) And they will go there, and they will take away all its detestable things and all its abominations from there.
(19) Then I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within them, and take the stony heart out of their flesh, and give them a heart of flesh,
(20) that they may walk in My statutes and keep My judgments and do them; and they shall be My people, and I will be their God.

They will possess the land in obedience.
ειπεν αυτη ο ιησους εγω ειμι η αναστασις και η ζωη ο πιστευων εις εμε καν αποθανη ζησεται
. . . saying to her Jesus, I AM the resurrection and the life, the one believing into Me even dying shall live . . .
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Re: The Folly of Fulfillment Theology A new form of Replacement

Postby jgilberAZ on Tue Apr 24, 2012 7:49 pm

Then I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within them, and take the stony heart out of their flesh, and give them a heart of flesh, that they may walk in My statutes and keep My judgments and do them; and they shall be My people, and I will be their God.



“Behold, the days are coming, declares the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant that they broke, though I was their husband, declares the LORD. For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the LORD: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people. And no longer shall each one teach his neighbor and each his brother, saying, ‘Know the LORD,’ for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest, declares the LORD. For I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.”
(Jeremiah 31:31-34 ESV)


Are you saying those of the New Covenant have a right to the land, ie, not the current apostate iteration of the nation of Israel.

Am I understanding you correctly?
2 Timothy 2:24a..And the servant of the Lord must not strive ...
The meaning is, that the servant of Christ should be a man of peace. He should not indulge in the feelings which commonly give rise to contention, and which commonly characterize it. He should not struggle for mere victory, even when endeavoring to maintain truth; but should do this, in all cases, with a kind spirit, and a mild temper; with entire candor; with nothing designed to provoke and irritate an adversary; and so that, whatever may be the result of the discussion, "the bond of peace" may, if possible, be preserved.
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Re: The Folly of Fulfillment Theology A new form of Replacement

Postby mark s on Tue Apr 24, 2012 8:14 pm

The way I read it, when the New Covenant is fulfilled with all of Israel, and they are all gathered back to the land, they will possess the land in obedience forever. I understand this to happen when Jesus returns.

As far as the present nation of Israel, I think that the 1948 statehood completed the exile of Israel following a "7 times over" punishment for failing to return to the land in obedience following the Babylonian captivity.

But I think the true fulfillment of these promises, and the land covenant between God and Israel, will occur when the nation receives Jesus as their true Messiah, and they are born again. The righteousness of the Law will be fulfilled in them by Christ's imputed righteousness, and the covenant will be fulfilled.

This is what I think.

Love in Christ,
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ειπεν αυτη ο ιησους εγω ειμι η αναστασις και η ζωη ο πιστευων εις εμε καν αποθανη ζησεται
. . . saying to her Jesus, I AM the resurrection and the life, the one believing into Me even dying shall live . . .
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Re: The Folly of Fulfillment Theology A new form of Replacement

Postby Jericho on Wed Mar 13, 2013 10:37 am

jgilberAZ wrote:
... the Jews no longer enjoy a god-given national destiny in the land of Canaan.

Where is the scriptural support for stating the opposite ... that the Jews do, in fact, have a god-given national destiny in the land of Canaan?


Isn't this the Abrahamic covenant that God made with Abraham and his descendents?

"And I will establish My covenant between Me and you and your descendants after you in their generations, for an everlasting covenant, to be God to you and your descendants after you" (Gen 17:7)

"Also I give to you and your descendants after you the land in which you are a stranger, all the land of Canaan, as an everlasting possession; and I will be their God." (Gen 17:8)

Notice it's an everlasting covenant with "no" pre-conditions on Abraham's part.

jgilberAZ wrote:And, referring to "Jews," please clarify if you're speaking of:


I would assume all Hebrews since the land was promised to Abraham and his decedents.

jgilberAZ wrote:Possession of the land is conditional upon obedience.
What characteristic defines those who have a God-given right to the land? Obedience.


There are seven distinct covenants that God makes in the bible, four of which apply to the nation of Israel. The Abrahamic Covenant is where god gives the land of Canaan to Abraham and his descendants. The Mosaic covenant God promises certain blessings and cursings dependent on Israel's obedience. Israel was disobedient for most of there history and suffered the consequences of it under the Mosaic covenant, however this does not affect the Abrahamic covenant which wasn't based on Israel's obedience. The fact that God said the Israelites would be driven out of the land for a long period of time and then return to become a nation again in one day confirms this.

jgilberAZ wrote:They received the promised land.
Continued possession of it always depends on obedience.


I agree to this to an extent, yes there continued possession of the land was dependent of there obedience but there ownership of the land was still rightfully theirs, tho they have never fully possessed it. If this were not true, then God wouldn't have promised to regather them to the land in the last days.

I will say I do believe the current nation of Israel was part of God's prophetic plan rather they are currently apostate or not. God didn't say he would regather them in belief but they would come to belief during the great-tribulation.
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