WHY?

Discussion not limited to prophecy.

WHY?

Postby tforever on Sat Jul 08, 2006 6:26 am

I'm not here to "stir" up any trouble with anyone. I respect your beliefs. You are allowed to believe anything you like. All of you who believe in these "revelations", are you excited about the end times? I used to be a Christian when I was younger. I'm 28 years old now. I recall watching a movie entitled "Left Behind". I still have the same anxietal feelings from seeing it at such a young age. DO you believe because you are "saved" that you don't have to account for your behavior before God Almighty? Or, is it like a "get out of jail" card? I hope that you all help the needy and be just to one another. Or, are you so engulfed with the bible prophecy that you forget the greatest teachings of Jesus' genorosity, humbleness, and worship of his Father. Also, it seems that you have "marked" Javier Solona as the possible Anti-Christ. Although, I recall that the teachings of the bible say that you don't know who it will be, or the time of the Rapture. Please forgive my ignorance if I have made any false statements. Again, I respect your beliefs. Please don't slander me because I ask a few questions. We are all brothers and sisters in humanity because we all come from Adam and Eve. In this life I believe that it is not good to waste any time on anything that is not beneficial for your mind, body, and soul. Peace and blessings to you all. Thank you for the opportunity to post a message on this board.
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Postby docb on Sat Jul 08, 2006 6:45 am

deft "interesting times" and the 2010 NAU Bush signed should scare
most Americans

The "countdown" is underway and doubtful Solana is the AC but who
knows??
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Postby D4Christ on Sat Jul 08, 2006 7:49 am

tforever,

I am sorry that you "used to be a Christian" but I have to wonder from your comments if you were ever really a "Christian" at all. I do not know what happened to you in your youth or young adult life that caused you to turn away from the faith, but I suspect from your comments that you were never really turned on to the faith to begin with.

Why do you assume that the Christians on this board are not kind and humble or assume that they are unaccountable for our behavior? To the contrary, many on this board, who seek to understand the prophecies more fully [the prophecies that we were commanded to understand and read], are gaining a deeper knowledge of the bible than before we began to study prophecies. My knowledge and love for Christ's commandments in my life are more real and personal as the scriptures are coming alive to me through G-d's fullfilled promises.

I do not think anyone is under the impression that because we study prophecy G-d would let us off the hook if we continuned to sin and not change our ways. Jesus tells us whoremongers, liars, adultereres, etc will not inherit the kingdom of G-d. Man may be a hypocrite but G-d is not!

The discussions on this board are not a waste of time becasue Jesus said to be aware of the signs of His return and that the readers of the book of Revelation would be blessed for reading it [His words not ours, so if you take issue to that commandment, you will have to take it up with the Boss].

I invite you to read the bible and know G-d for yourself. I am not talking about reading a verse a preacher told you to but really reading for comprehension and understanding the bible for yourself. Compare the scriptures to see if the messages contained are true or false. As truth is revealed to you, try to live the messages and lessons you read and ask the spirit of G-d and author of the Bible help you to live out the precepts contained within. This is what is means to be a Christian. Christianity is a persoanl relationship with G-d developed through prayer, practice, reading of His Word and fellowship with other saints.

Remember, everyone who says, "Lord, Lord" is not a true christian, but you should not that affect how you behave. Because in the end G-d is not going to judge you based on what somebody did to you but on how you behaved yourself. Step up and take the challenge to be a true Christian and stop basing your experience on the actions of "corrupt Christians."

I pray you give G-d a try.
"1 Now, dear brothers and sisters, let us clarify some things about the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and how we will be gathered to meet him....3 Don’t be fooled by what they say. For that day will not come until there is a great rebellion against God and the man of lawlessness is revealed—the one who brings destruction."

--2 Thessalonians 2: 1,3
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Postby Salty Skipper on Sat Jul 08, 2006 8:31 am

Hello, Tforever...

In regards to your question about "revelations,"...the full title of Revelation in the Bible is "The Revelation to John." It is a book that speaks of John, the disciple's visions of the Revelation of Christ...who He is in all His glory, and His promised return to this earth. I enjoy reading Revelation because it talks about my Savior. I am sad and very troubled because many people are going to suffer during the 3.5 year Great Tribulation that the Bible speaks about. Christians will suffer too, because of persecution. It's going to be the most horrible days this world ever has or ever will see. At the end of it though, Jesus comes back...and every tear will be wiped away. It's a scary story, but the ending is fabulous.

Your anxiety probably does not stem from seeing a movie called "Left Behind" at such a young age, but because you felt conviction from the Holy Spirit...perhaps a thought in your mind of "what if it's true." I suspect those feelings have nagged you. The Holy Spirit has a way of doing that. Jesus will keep on trying to get to you over and over and over again. He wants you to turn to Him because He loves you more than any human being ever could. The scriptures tell us that we are fearfully and wonderfully made...He knows the number of hairs on our head :grin: ...if you ask me...that's pretty cool that such an Awesome and Mighty Creator would know me before I was even born. He knows you to. He wants you to know Him.

As far as Solana being the antichrist...we don't know that yet. There is a lot of research Herb Peters has done...you can read more about it under the Herb's Commentary tab at the top of the page. Pretty interesting stuff. Herb has put many hours and hours into this research, and it's available for us to read for free. As time passes, there will come a point in time where there will be no doubt about who the antichrist is, regardless of his identity. That's why we are paying close attention to all of these seemingly random world events. We know that the time is short and do not want to be caught unaware. The Bible tells us to watch and be ready, lest we be caught unaware.

The Rapture is a hotly debated topic...even here sometimes. Some people think it will happen before the tribulation. Study of scripture leads me to believe it is, in fact, towards the end of the tribulation or at the very end. I'm still a little confused about that. I know that further study and prayer to God for understanding will result in knowledge of the Truth. I used to rely on what others told me, or what I read or saw on television about the rapture...but now I know that the Lord wants me to seek it out for myself. He wants me to know Him and His ways. The only way to do that is to pray and study the Word, that is, the Bible.

I hope this answers your questions. More importantly Tforever, Jesus does love you, and He will show you the Truth if you ask Him to. I know that beyond a shadow of a doubt, with every bone in my body...I KNOW it because I have experienced it. He wishes for all to be saved.

Mark 14:62
And Jesus said, "I am, and you shall see THE SON OF MAN SITTING AT THE RIGHT HAND OF POWER, and COMING WITH THE CLOUDS OF HEAVEN."

He is coming, Tforever, will you be ready?

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Postby CoffeeCat on Sat Jul 08, 2006 9:42 am

If you go to most churches in the country, none of them pay attention to Bible prophecy. Anyone who is interested tends to flock to prophecy news sites and message boards. I don't know why everyone else is here, but I can give you my reasons.

1) Jesus Christ commanded us to watch several times in the Gospels. And so did Paul and the apostles. We're fulfilling a command from our leader. If we don't, that would make us hypocrites.

2) The world is filled with apathy and it sickens me. This site has been a blessing.

3) It helps me understand some of the geopolitical realities that shape our society.

4) It helps me know my enemy.

5) It shows that I'm willing do die for my faith (Big Bother is watching sites like this, and they don't like us)


I hope this answers your questions. I thank you for trying to be respectful in your post.
Eccl 12:12 And further, by these, my son, be admonished: of making many books there is no end; and much study is a weariness of the flesh.
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Postby OBXBob on Sat Jul 08, 2006 10:24 am

:wavewelcome: tforever!

I'm so glad you've found this board!

:hugs2:


If you have questions about the Bible, please ask away! We may not have all the answers here, but we'll sure do our best to answer them!

Blessings,

Bob
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Postby not there yet on Sat Jul 08, 2006 1:33 pm

tforever.

If you are still reading, I'd like to offer a couple of things for you to ponder when you have some time.

My guess is that if we were to take a poll, a majority of the members here would tell you that they have distanced themselves from religion. I suspect that many of us are a part of home churches and there are some pretty practical reasons for it.

1. God never intended man for religion. His intent has always been for relationship. It is a theme that runs from the first book of the Bible to the end.
2. Religion is little more than man's attempt to control or manipulate God with rules, ceremonies, and guidelines based upon man's priorities. And guess what...if we can manipulate and control the gods of our own making, then we can fool ourselves into believing that we don't have to submit to the one true God.
3. When you step away from religion, it is amazing how much time you really have to serve the Lord on a local basis. By local, I mean the people next door, across the street or around the corner. My money no longer goes to fund a building, pay for that building, and to support a host of paid professionals to do the job of ministry that I don't want to...

The people here spend time studying prophecy because they love the Word of God and a very large chunk of the Bible is prophetic in nature. The people here study prophecy not because we have some kind of fatalistic view of the future or because we are afraid of the world events around us. We study prophecy because we have a genuine love for Jesus and we want the people around us to be in right relationship with Jesus.

You see tforever, the study of prophecy helps confirm the truth of Scripture and the Sovereign plan of God. We study prophecy and smile as we thank God for allowing us to be in relationship with Him because we can be reminded that He is real. He is living. He is still in control and the plans of man can never displace, derail, or foil His plan and His purpose.

No, tforever, we aren't perfect. We argue and we don't always agree. Some of the posts in this thread are examples of such, and I am the biggest of offenders. Put the arguements and debate aside. If you have ever truly been in relationship with God through relationship with Jesus, you could not imagine wanting to be anywhere else. So, tforever, I challenge you... Restore the relationship or start it new. There is no greater peace than in the arms of Jesus. There is no greater joy than service for the love of Jesus, and there is no greater safety than in serving the King of Kings, and the Lord of Lords.

No doubt, you know the story of the prodigal son. It is not a story about one man and a moment in time, but a story of all men and all women of all time. I am the prodigal son, displaced from relationship with God because of my own will and my own sin, and I have been the prodigal son on more than one occasion. The story is about me. The story is about you. The story is about us all. The Father still waits...the opportunity for relationship still waits, but as the study of prophecy tells us...He will not wait forever.

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Postby Herb on Sat Jul 08, 2006 3:04 pm

tforever didn't ask a question about the old, "once saved always saved," debate. Here's what tforever posted:

I'm not here to "stir" up any trouble with anyone. I respect your beliefs. You are allowed to believe anything you like. All of you who believe in these "revelations", are you excited about the end times? I used to be a Christian when I was younger. I'm 28 years old now. I recall watching a movie entitled "Left Behind". I still have the same anxietal feelings from seeing it at such a young age. DO you believe because you are "saved" that you don't have to account for your behavior before God Almighty? Or, is it like a "get out of jail" card? I hope that you all help the needy and be just to one another. Or, are you so engulfed with the bible prophecy that you forget the greatest teachings of Jesus' genorosity, humbleness, and worship of his Father. Also, it seems that you have "marked" Javier Solona as the possible Anti-Christ. Although, I recall that the teachings of the bible say that you don't know who it will be, or the time of the Rapture. Please forgive my ignorance if I have made any false statements. Again, I respect your beliefs. Please don't slander me because I ask a few questions. We are all brothers and sisters in humanity because we all come from Adam and Eve. In this life I believe that it is not good to waste any time on anything that is not beneficial for your mind, body, and soul. Peace and blessings to you all. Thank you for the opportunity to post a message on this board.


tforever

To your first question, yes I'm excited about these end times. Don't get me wrong, there are some things I'm not looking forward to. But, those things can't take away from what's coming -- the return of our Lord and Savior.

Another thing that excites me is to know that I can trust that old Bible. The whole unbelieving world can stand up with one voice and shout their loudest. But, they can't stop God's Word from coming to pass, in real time, and in the world's face.

As far as having to give an account before God, we're all going to have to do it. And, the way things look, it may be sonner than we think.

As far as marking Solana as the Antichrist, or as far as our not knowing who the Antichrist will be or when the rapture will occur, these are what we're all here trying to figure out. The problem is, Solana does appear to be fulfilling many prophecies. Take a look at what we've been reporting and you'll see what I mean. And, if we're not to be looking, why did God gives us these prophecies? The rapture teaching is another issue that I would suggest you revisit. I for one don't believe it will happen before the Antichrist is revealed -- as taught by Paul in 2 Thes. 2:1.

Welcome to our board tforever.

Is that "t" as in truth? If so, you may be at the right place.

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Postby BeTheMoon on Sat Jul 08, 2006 3:29 pm

Wow! I just read this thread for the first time!
:shock:

WELCOME TFOREVER!


We are all brothers and sisters in humanity because we all come from Adam and Eve.

I see your thinking, but understand that man has fallen through Adam. By redemption through Christ do we become family. I haven't read here about you saying you're a Christian, but I hope one day to call you a brother in Christ. For by Him alone are we saved.

PM me anytime!

:wink:
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Postby soonverysoon on Sun Jul 09, 2006 7:00 am

Jesus is God and He still loves you.



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Thank you,

Postby tforever on Sun Jul 09, 2006 2:43 pm

Thanks to all who gave insight on my post. Again, I respect all your beliefs. I would never condemn anything that any of you would post on these boards. The fact of the matter is that I am a Muslim. An extremely satisfied happy Muslim. The reason I am here is that I have an acqaintance that spends alot of time on Bible prophecy. My original reason for the questions asked is because I can't have a mutual discussion with this person because they tend to get really upset/impassioned about current world events in relation to Bible prophecy. I realize that it may be my friends inability to show mutual respect to my beliefs. It has come to the point that I can't even discuss anything with her because she gets really mad and raises her voice with me. Although many of you, or even all of you, don't believe that Allah (s.w.t.) is the same God of the bible, I do. I stand firm in my beliefs. I'm a very humble loving person. I pray 5 times a day. I fast to feed my soul. I give to charity. I love my family and my wife, who is Catholic. I want the best for all of humanity, no matter what race or religion they might be. I practice Islam they way it is supposed to be practiced. Not what is portrayed in the media. I'm not on these boards to fight or argue with any of you. I would help any human who needed my help, regardless of their religious affiliation. I believe people should be judged by there character, not by their religion. People that I work with and know that are non-Muslim seem to appreciate my friendship. I am proud of my journey in my life that led me to Islam. I am an American Muslim. Alhamdullilah, Praise be to God. Again, thank you all for your comments. I will continue to "investigate" and look into the posts here. Peace and Blessings to you all.
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Postby Herb on Sun Jul 09, 2006 3:04 pm

You are welcome here tforever.

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Postby Art Vandelay on Sun Jul 09, 2006 3:04 pm

Being kind, fasting, respecting others, giving to charity, etc are wonderful but they will not get you to heaven. The only way is through belief in Jesus Christ as the Son of God.
Kristy

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Postby Art Vandelay on Sun Jul 09, 2006 3:14 pm

Although many of you, or even all of you, don't believe that Allah (s.w.t.) is the same God of the bible, I do.


1. The Bible teaches that the one God consists of three personalities; Father, Son, and Holy Ghost (Matthew 28:19-20). The Koran teaches that Allah is God and Mohammed is his prophet.

2. The Bible teaches that grace through obedient faith saves us (Ephesians 2:8-10 & James 2:24). The Koran teaches that salvation is wholly by works.

3. The Bible is truth (John 17:17). The Koran teaches that it is all and final truth. Both cannot be right!

4. The Bible says that God tempts no man (James 1:13). The Koran teaches that Allah leads people astray.

5. The Bible teaches that Jesus is the only begotten Son of God (John 3:16). The Koran denies that Jesus is the only begotten Son of God.

6. The Bible teaches that Christ did no sin (I Peter 2:22). The prophet of Allah admitted he was a sinner.

7. The Bible teaches that Christ was crucified for our sins (Acts 2:23 & Philippians 2:8). The Koran says that Jesus was not crucified.
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Postby Abiding in His Word on Sun Jul 09, 2006 3:22 pm

tforever

I will continue to "investigate" and look into the posts here. Peace and Blessings to you all.


You will find there are many interesting topics and many loving people on the board. Blessings to you also. :grin:
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Postby BeTheMoon on Sun Jul 09, 2006 3:29 pm

The fact of the matter is that I am a Muslim.


I still love you, Tforever!
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Postby water on Sun Jul 09, 2006 3:33 pm

Tforever, I have read quite a lot about Islam and Muslim culture in general, though I admit I am far from being an expert on these subjects.

Sometimes Christians find it very difficult to engage on the complicated issues between their faith and faiths that seem very similar, such as Islam.

Of course, we would both agree that Christianity and Islam are miles apart, yet there are many things in common that can help us understand one another better.

I for one welcome you here and would just ask that if someone attacks you here that you notify one of the moderators in a private message so we can ensure everyone follows the rules on these boards.

With that said, I hope I can offer you some advice if your goal is to understand Christians, which is a worthy goal.

I wanted to study Islam, not that I was considering converting, but I really wanted to understand Muslims in the deepest part of my heart. I think we can both agree that God loves us and wants us to love each other. So with the goal of understanding Muslims and keeping an attitude of love towards them, I read a few books and a LOT of material online.

One of the problems I encountered was that there are plenty of people in both of these religions who do not embrace God's way, which is love, when dealing with others. So I found a lot of hate, which I believe is from Satan and not God.

Of all the books and websites I found, I did find a few that pursued understanding with love.

I will share one of them with you, but I want you to understand that this website is a Christian website that tries to do two things:

1) Help other Christians better understand Islam and Muslims in a LOVING way so that God's message of love can be shared as it is supposed to be, in love, not hate.

2) Help Muslims understand Christianity better.

I tell you this so you do not go to the website and immeidately discount it because it is Christian based.

There are several articles, free online books, and testimonies from all sorts of people.

I am not trying to "convert" you to Christianity, that is not the job of any Christian. Only God can do this when he calls your heart to himself.

I am simply saying the best way to understand Christians as a Muslim is to read about how Christians understand Muslims. This is how I came to better understand Muslims, through the minds and words of Muslims explaining how they understand Christians.

So, here it is:

http://www.answering-islam.org/

On this site there are many intelligent and thoughtful articles and debates, but my absolute favorite section (because it helped me understand Muslims I think more than anything else I have ever read), is the testimony section:

http://www.answering-islam.org/Testimonies/index.html

Now, here is the best advice I can give you if you want to understand Christians and how Christians understand Muslims: read these testimonies and other articles on the website EVEN WHEN YOU DO NOT AGREE! Remember, in order to truly understand something, you have to read the thoughts of REAL PEOPLE.

If you ever have any questions about Christianity or the End Times from a Christian perspective, feel free to ask questions in these forums. Just remember this though, we let anyone read and post here, so this means you may encounter harshness. I hope you will forgive us ahead of time if this happens.

You can always send us private messages too if you have questions or issues.

I pray that God will show you the true path. I know this, God loves you as much as he loves me. If you ask God to show you the truth, do you think he would show you a lie? Ask God in faith for the truth and I promise he will show you.
Now is the time to be the Sons of Issachar - 1 Chronicles 12:32

My old self has been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me. So I live in this earthly body by trusting in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. - Galatians 2:20
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tforever

Postby cujet on Sun Jul 09, 2006 4:01 pm

tforever,

Welcome, I hope you are still reading.

As a Muslim, I trust you will be willing to consider a point that I would like to make.

The Jews are proof of the existence of God. Throughout history, all sorts of governments, religions, peoples and countries have tried to eliminate the Jews. The reason is simple, the Jews are God's people. As such, evil will always try to eliminate God's people. This is how evil works. There has never been a benign government that has attempted to harm the Jews, only evil ones.

Due to your faith, you might not see the Jews this way. Consider this, any faith that "has it in for" "or wants to eliminate" a group of people is of the evil one. That clearly includes some perverted versions of so called Christian faiths. It clearly does not include true bible believing Christians.

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Postby crmann on Sun Jul 09, 2006 4:07 pm

My fellow believers...

I am ashamed and embarrassed. Here we have a non-believer who has come into our midst, and we end up arguing theology. How we must appear to this one who suddenly made his presence known!

I may be over reacting to this, but I think it just shows how we as Christians need to always be aware of how we handle ourselves, even when we disagree; that we disagree in an atmosphere of love and respect.

Your brother in Christ,

Cleveland,
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Postby D4Christ on Sun Jul 09, 2006 4:12 pm

Art Vandelay wrote: 1. The Bible teaches that the one God consists of three personalities; Father, Son, and Holy Ghost (Matthew 28:19-20). The Koran teaches that Allah is God and Mohammed is his prophet.

2. The Bible teaches that grace through obedient faith saves us (Ephesians 2:8-10 & James 2:24). The Koran teaches that salvation is wholly by works.

3. The Bible is truth (John 17:17). The Koran teaches that it is all and final truth. Both cannot be right!

4. The Bible says that God tempts no man (James 1:13). The Koran teaches that Allah leads people astray.

5. The Bible teaches that Jesus is the only begotten Son of God (John 3:16). The Koran denies that Jesus is the only begotten Son of God.

6. The Bible teaches that Christ did no sin (I Peter 2:22). The prophet of Allah admitted he was a sinner.

7. The Bible teaches that Christ was crucified for our sins (Acts 2:23 & Philippians 2:8). The Koran says that Jesus was not crucified.


:a3: Art Vandelay (did you take that from Seinfield?)
As friendly as we want to be, G-d said be ye separate from this world. And this world represents everything that is anti-christ, no matter how pretty the packaging.

So, to our muslim friend, you can bet that many on this board will be praying for you and we welcome you to read our scriptures that have been breathed by the mouth of G-d. To comapre Allah to G-d....there is no comparison...to entertain otherwise is to violate our own beliefs.

2 John 1:10-11 If anyone come to teach you, and he doesn't believe what Christ taught, don't even invite him into your home. Don't encourage him in any way. If you do you will be a partner with him in his wickedness.
"1 Now, dear brothers and sisters, let us clarify some things about the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and how we will be gathered to meet him....3 Don’t be fooled by what they say. For that day will not come until there is a great rebellion against God and the man of lawlessness is revealed—the one who brings destruction."

--2 Thessalonians 2: 1,3
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Postby water on Sun Jul 09, 2006 5:31 pm

crmann wrote:My fellow believers...

I am ashamed and embarrassed. Here we have a non-believer who has come into our midst, and we end up arguing theology. How we must appear to this one who suddenly made his presence known!

I may be over reacting to this, but I think it just shows how we as Christians need to always be aware of how we handle ourselves, even when we disagree; that we disagree in an atmosphere of love and respect.

Your brother in Christ,

Cleveland,
The old timer


Amen, Cleveland.

Let us remember:

1 Corinthians 13

1 If I could speak in any language in heaven or on earth[a] but didn't love others, I would only be making meaningless noise like a loud gong or a clanging cymbal. 2If I had the gift of prophecy, and if I knew all the mysteries of the future and knew everything about everything, but didn't love others, what good would I be? And if I had the gift of faith so that I could speak to a mountain and make it move, without love I would be no good to anybody. 3If I gave everything I have to the poor and even sacrificed my body, I could boast about it;[b] but if I didn't love others, I would be of no value whatsoever.

4Love is patient and kind. Love is not jealous or boastful or proud 5or rude. Love does not demand its own way. Love is not irritable, and it keeps no record of when it has been wronged. 6It is never glad about injustice but rejoices whenever the truth wins out. 7Love never gives up, never loses faith, is always hopeful, and endures through every circumstance.

8Love will last forever, but prophecy and speaking in unknown languages[c] and special knowledge will all disappear. 9Now we know only a little, and even the gift of prophecy reveals little! 10But when the end comes, these special gifts will all disappear.

11It's like this: When I was a child, I spoke and thought and reasoned as a child does. But when I grew up, I put away childish things. 12Now we see things imperfectly as in a poor mirror, but then we will see everything with perfect clarity.[d] All that I know now is partial and incomplete, but then I will know everything completely, just as God knows me now.

13There are three things that will endure--faith, hope, and love--and the greatest of these is love.
Now is the time to be the Sons of Issachar - 1 Chronicles 12:32

My old self has been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me. So I live in this earthly body by trusting in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. - Galatians 2:20
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Postby Salty Skipper on Sun Jul 09, 2006 7:01 pm

:welcome:

There is much to be learned here, Tforever. It's a really cool site. Hope you choose to stick around!

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Postby Art Vandelay on Sun Jul 09, 2006 10:21 pm

D4Christ wrote:
:a3: Art Vandelay (did you take that from Seinfield?)


lol yes I did. :)
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Again,

Postby tforever on Mon Jul 10, 2006 12:29 am

Thank you all for welcoming me. To "water". I have looked at the "answering-islam" website. I'm not sure if you have heard of a man named Yusuf Estes. If you would like to further look into Islam, I would suggest watching a lecture of his. Of course, it is entirelly up to you, no pressure what-so-ever. I will leave the link at the end of this post. To "crmann", I'm confused by the "non-believer" comment. I hope I'm not looking into it a as a potential offensive remark. I just re-read your post and I think you have good intentions. I hope I'm right. A reply to " cujet", I think the popular "Western" impression that Muslims hate Jews is incorrect. My thoughts on this are that the Christians and the Jews are "People of the Book", or previous revelations are not to be harmed. Treat everyone justly. I think that all Abrahamic religions are perfect. It's the people that practice them that are not. By far I'm not a scholar in Islam. I think that if people want to question my belief in Islam, I can direct you to people that are Sheikhs and Scholars, so I don't give you any false information. I think that with the world events and the "bad publicity" that Islam gets that we, the Muslims, need to teach people the "true" religion. The responsibility falls on us. Honestly, I would perfer to help people here if they want, but, I don't want to argue or be disrespected. I think inevitably, if we get further and further in these types of discussions, tempers flare. Well brothers and sisters, it's getting late. I will try and check these boards tomorrow. here is the link if anyone is intrested.
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Rules

Postby Herb on Mon Jul 10, 2006 12:40 am

tforever

People of all faiths are welcome here. However, since we are a Christian ministry Website, I don't allow the promoting of any religious views contrary to our statement of faith. They are:

1. The Virgin Birth of Jesus Christ.

2. The Sinless Life of Jesus Christ.

3. The Substitionary atonement of Jesus Christ.

4. The Bodily Resurrection and Ascension of Jesus Christ.

5. The Bodily Return of Jesus Christ.

6. The Resurrection of the Dead.

7. The teaching of Salvation by Grace through Faith.

8. The Deity of Jesus Christ.

9. The Trinity - The tri-equality, tri-essental (of the same essence), and
the tri-eternality of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

10. The full authority of the Holy Scripture in all matters of Faith and
practice. Generally, Verbal plenary confluent inspiration of the original
autographs (Original copies of Scripture).

Hope you understand tforever

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Sorry,

Postby tforever on Mon Jul 10, 2006 4:44 am

I apologize Herb. I didn't realize that you would'nt allow me to put up a website. I can understand your point of view. Truthfully, I'm not in agreement with your policy, but, I will respect your wishes. Again, I do apologize. You have gave me a good idea though. MAybe I should open my own blog/website in attempt for Christain/Muslim dialoge. Herb, you must be a great benifet to people who are intrested in Bible prophecy. May God reward you for all of your efforts. One day, God willing, I will know my religious scriptures as well as you know yours.
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Postby crmann on Mon Jul 10, 2006 6:20 am

Welcome, Tforever..

My apologies, no offense intended. The usage of 'Non Believer' refers to any and all who do not call themselves Christians. This would be Hindu, Buddhist, Shintoist, Muslim, Atheist, and others. Even those who think themselves to be Christians, can be non believers.

My hope is that you will visit FP often.

You are in my prayers.

Your friend,
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Re: Again,

Postby water on Mon Jul 10, 2006 6:22 am

tforever wrote:A reply to " cujet", I think the popular "Western" impression that Muslims hate Jews is incorrect.


Tforever, I humbly and respectfully challenge you to read what the Qur'an teaches about infidels to Islam.

Whom does the Qur'an say the infidels are? Are infidels not all who refuse the Shahadah (confession of the creed), which says, "There is no God but God(Allah) and Muhammad is the Messenger of God."

Once you know exactly who is an infidel according to the Qur'an, what does the Qur'an say about how they should be treated?

Also, according to the Qur'an, how is Islam to be spread? A different way to ask that question is how is the kingdom of Allah to advance in today's world?

There are litterally thousands of questions we could ask about Islam. Of course, to understand the Muslim, we should speak with Muslims, but if we want to understand Islam, we should read the Qur'an. It is fine to consult leaders and teachers when one is unsure of a particular passage in the Qur'an, but make no doubt about it, God wants us to study the scriptures for ourselves.

I believe if you search the Qur'an to answer the questions I listed above, then you will better understand why Christians and Jews *perceive* that Muslims hate Jews and Christians.

Tforever, may I ask what "type" of Muslim you are? As I understand it, these are the varying divisions and sects of Islam:

Sunnis
Shias
Sufis
Folk Muslims
Secularized Muslims
Ahmadis
Islamic Militants
Black Muslims

If you are not certain *exactly* where you might be within these sects, I can describe them a little to help.

I am very interested in learning more about you and hope you stick around.

It is a good thing to dig deeper into God. When we pursue God, he blesses us with revelations of his Truth, and in the presense of Truth, no lie or deceit can stand.

Peace,

Water
Now is the time to be the Sons of Issachar - 1 Chronicles 12:32

My old self has been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me. So I live in this earthly body by trusting in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. - Galatians 2:20
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Postby tsth on Mon Jul 10, 2006 7:40 am

Tforever, I humbly and respectfully challenge you to read what the Qur'an teaches about infidels to Islam.

Whom does the Qur'an say the infidels are? Are infidels not all who refuse the Shahadah (confession of the creed), which says, "There is no God but God(Allah) and Muhammad is the Messenger of God."

Once you know exactly who is an infidel according to the Qur'an, what does the Qur'an say about how they should be treated?

Also, according to the Qur'an, how is Islam to be spread? A different way to ask that question is how is the kingdom of Allah to advance in today's world?


Dear tforever,

I DO hope that you will reply to water's questions above, as that addresses the major concerns. They are valid questions, and I personally would like to know if these concerns are justified or not.

In His Love,
Suzanne
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Thank you,

Postby tforever on Tue Jul 11, 2006 4:45 am

Thank you for asking about Islamic beliefs. On a previous post I made the mistake of breaking the rules of these boards. I would like to answer your questions in best manner that I can. Doing this would require me to take direct quotes for the Noble Quran. Do I have permission to do this? As always I'm not here to offend anyone. If I have so far, please accept my humble apologies. If given the opportunity, I will answer your questions here. If I can't, I wonder if I could leave my e-mail to address any issues or questions anyone has. As far as the secterian question, or what Islamic group I'm affiliated with, I'm Sunni. ALthough, when I'm asked this question, I reply that I'm Muslim. My personel belief is that the secterian divisions are the shaytan/devils handywork. The Shaytan/Devil is here to divide humanity appart. Again, if given permission I will answer your questions. Thank you again for making me feel welcome on these boards.
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Postby soonverysoon on Tue Jul 11, 2006 6:36 am

Allah is a moon god, please look up the history.


Jesus is God, and he loves you.


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Allah as the "moon god"

Postby tforever on Tue Jul 11, 2006 7:25 am

I have been told by others of your faith about this. The statement that Allah is the moon god is a falsehood. Let me start by breaking the word "Allah" down from the arabic origin. The word is made up of two syllabels. Al=The and Ilah=God, making Allah=The God(without any partners). The arabic word for moon is actually qamar. The Quran does not teach Muslims to worship qamar. ALso, in the arabic version of the bible, Allah is used for God. This is a fact. I'm sure it is obvious to you that the Coptic Christians of Eqgypt don't speak english, they speak arabic. When they refer to God they say Allah. Like the practice of judaism, Islam also follows the lunar calander. I think the Christians follow the solar calander. Is this correct? I'm sure that Christians don't worship the sun. It is true that before Prohet Muhammed(peace and blessings be upon him), the pagan arabs did worship a "moon-go", along with hundreds of other gods. The popularity of the crescent moon in Islam came in the 1200s with the Ottomon empire. Look at Turkey's flag. If Prophet Muhammed(p.b..u.h.) wanted Muslims to worship the moon, he would have placed images of it everywhere, including the grand mosques of Mecca and Medina. As far as the Jesus is God comment, I'm not going to reply to that. I'm here to respect your religion and beliefs, and to share, what I can, about Islam. Thanks for youre comment.
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Re: Thank you,

Postby water on Tue Jul 11, 2006 8:55 am

tforever wrote:As far as the secterian question, or what Islamic group I'm affiliated with, I'm Sunni. ALthough, when I'm asked this question, I reply that I'm Muslim. My personel belief is that the secterian divisions are the shaytan/devils handywork. The Shaytan/Devil is here to divide humanity appart. Again, if given permission I will answer your questions. Thank you again for making me feel welcome on these boards.


I am a little familar with what Sunnis believe, not a lot, but a little. As I understand it, Sunnis get their name because they follow the Quran and the Sunnah, which if I am not mistaken was a record of some of the things Muhammad did during his live...as examples of how to live. Or is that the Hadith? I get confused sometimes. The Hadith is a book of traditions about Muhammad, maybe I am confused.

Anyhow, another thing I understand about Sunnis is that they follow Shariah Law (I don't know all of the laws, I have only heard of a few...I need to read more about this).

I am interested in your statement about Satan being here to divide humanity. Perhaps you meant something different with your words, but the Bible teaches us that Satan (a jinn according to Islam, a being created from fire) is here to deceive humanity to prevent them from reaching paradise, or Heaven.

According to Jesus, there is only one way to Heaven, and Satan is here to fool as many people as possible through false religions.

In my understanding, there are two general types of people in this world. Those that want to know God and those that only care about themselves.

For those that only care about themselves, they will do whatever evil thing they want because they do not care about anyone else, including God.

For those that truly want to know God, they are to seek him out. God tells us that if we look for him, we will find him. These are the people that Satan is here to deceive. Satan doesn't care about those people who hate God, they are going to Hell without his help.



The owners of this website are going to tell us soon what we can and can't say on these topics, so we will wait a while to discuss other issues.

For now, if you would not mind, I would love to know how *you* understand Christianity. Do you know what Christians believe when it comes to going to Heaven or Hell? I love to hear from non-Christians how they understand Christianity. I am often surprised at how informed they are, but other times I am amazed at some beliefs that are simply not true.

Peace,

Water
Now is the time to be the Sons of Issachar - 1 Chronicles 12:32

My old self has been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me. So I live in this earthly body by trusting in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. - Galatians 2:20
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Postby Herb on Tue Jul 11, 2006 10:29 am

Water

tforever

I appreciate the respect shown for the rules of the board. I wish all posters showed such courtesy. As far as permission to continue in your discussion about the Muslim faith, I request that it be done somewhere other than on this board. Recently I received the same request from a knowledgeable Catholic who wanted to post answers regarding questions about the Catholic faith. I also declined his request. My reason in both cases is the same -- I want the board's focus to remain on Bible and Bible prophecy.

Thanks for asking you guys. I really appreciate it.

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