Will the USA stand with AC or Israel during the End-Times?

[good4u1]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~good4u1 note: All, I hope I am not boring you with these Jack Smith's articles! But I cannot get enough of this man's perspective because he has valid things to say regarding Bible prophecy, imo. But here I hope this man is completely wrong about the weakness of American resolve against evil. He foresees Obama winning in the general election to play out biblical prophecy...dear God, I pray he is wrong! The last part of this article completely depressed me, I must admit.
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This post is partly in response to a post made by respected author and brother in Christ, Walid Shoebat. I came across his post as a subscriber to MidnightWatcher’s Blogpost. I posted replies there, but couldn’t seem to stop thinking about the question raised by Brother Shoebat: Where is America in Bible Prophecy? Brother Shoebat’s question was in the context of Revelation 13:7 which prophesies of a “world” dominion by the beast from the sea (interpreted to be Allah and Islam), and whether or not America will come under this “world” dominion. This post addresses a related but different question. Will the United Stand stand with the antichrist or with Israel in the end-times?

The relationship between America and Israel is quite relevant to our modern times. Rarely a day goes by that the news is not filled with news of Israel or her neighbors. Also, with America in the throes of the election of a new president, the answer to this specific question can even give us a hint as to who the next president might be — Obama or Romney? Publicly, both Obama and Romney have the similar positions on Israel — that is, they fully support Israel (although Romney’s position grants Israel greater sovereignty in decisions regarding its borders). Nevertheless, in the “back-halls” of Obama’s White House, I really wonder what is said outside the public eye. Recently, Obama and French president Nicolas Sarkozy were caught in an unmuted mic conversation about Israeli prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu: ”the French leader told Barack Obama: ‘Netanyahu, I can’t stand him. He’s a liar.’ To make matters worse, the U.S. President replied: ‘You are sick of him, but I have to deal with him every day.’ (Read more: http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/ ... story.html). If we are truly on the doorstep of the tribulation, the re-election of Obama will likely usher in a change in America’s support for Israel. I say that simply because it seems to be the trend-line that Obama is on; and if he has been on that line during his first term, imagine what will happen once he is elected for his second term. Another open mic problem occurred for Obama when he and Russian prime minister Medvedev were discussing the anti-ballistic missile defense shield positioned in Europe. Obama stated, ”This is my last election. After my election I have more flexibility.” (http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/20 ... exibility/). Hummm — more flexibility after the election? To do what? I’ll let you fill-in your own blanks there. Regardless, if America changes her position on Israel, I dare say that students of end-times prophecy will literally fill the band-width of Internet chat rooms and prophecy blogs. I imagine the “signs of the times” will no longer be debatable, but visible and unfolding right before our very eyes (Dan 12:9).

Perhaps the best place to begin is the specific Scripture that leads me to conclude that the antichrist will actually wage war against Israel (I will use the term “antichrist” to refer to “satan” and/or the” spirit of antichrist,” interchangeably. I do so because the spirit of antichrist (1 John 2:18) acts as satan in Scripture (Revelation 13:4), and he does so with satan’s “power, throne and authority” (Revelation 13:2). Here is the Scripture I will use that prophesies of satan’s war against Israel:

Revelation 12:17 (NASB) 17 So the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went off to make war with the rest of her children, who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus.

The “woman” (Revelation 12:1) is symbolic for Israel (see similar characteristics in Joseph’s dream, Genesis 37:9). The “dragon” is symbolic for satan (Revelation 12:9). The “rest of her children” are Christians (Revelation 12:17). I will also refer to them as the “offspring” of the woman. Revelation 12 establishes the reason for the woman’s persecution by the dragon: because she gave birth to the divine child, Jesus (Revelation 12:2, 4-5, 13). To me, Revelation 12 is like a movie describing a continuing conflict waged by the dragon against the woman and her offspring. The conflict is not a one-time event, but a never-ending conflict whose final battle is not described within the parameters of Revelation 12 but by other prophecies (Daniel 2, 7, 12, Revelation 16-20). Revelation 12:17 describes the wrath of the dragon that manifests itself in a war that is at all times spiritual, but at other times also physical. The war against the Jews is satan’s attempt to destroy Israel, the “firstfruits of His increase” (Jeremiah 2:3 KJV), and specifically, the remnant God will ultimately redeem at the second coming of Christ (Romans 11:26 as defined by Romans 9:27-29; Ezekiel 37:24-28; 39:28; Revelation 14:4). In this destruction, the heart of God is wounded much like the heart of a mother when pain is inflicted upon her children. In Acts 9, for example, one of the earliest persecutors of the Church is a Jewish leader named, Saul. While on his way to Damascus to persecute Christians, Saul is blinded by a light from heaven. He then hears these words:

“Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me? “And he said, “Who are You, Lord?” And He said,“I am Jesus whom you are persecuting” (Acts 9:4-5).

In the same way that Saul was persecuting Jesus when he persecuted Christians, so satan persecutes Jesus when he inflicts Jews and/or Christians. This persecution is satan’s means to afflict the heart of God. satan cannot wage his battle directly against God. He has tried and has failed (Revelation 12:7-9), and has been cast out of heaven to earth where he now wages his war against the woman and her offspring (Revelation 12:13; see also, Isaiah 14:12-15, Ezekiel 28:16-17).

But through whom does satan wage this war against Israel? satan wages it through “kings” and their “kingdoms,” almost like satan’s hand acting through the glove of humanity. The specific kings/kingdoms through which this war is waged in the end-times are defined by Ezekiel 38/39. Ezekiel 38/39 is a primary passage that specifically applies “… to the latter years…” (Ezek 38:8, 16). Ezekiel 38/39 describes a “Gog,” the commander of an alliance of nations that includes nations from the “land of Magog” (non-Muslim) as well as nations from the Middle East, Asia Minor, and Africa (all Muslim). Based on an initial reading of Ezekiel 38/39, America is not on the list of nations attacking Israel in the end-times. Here are the nations that are:

Nations from the land of “Magog” – Meshech, Tubal, and Rosh (38:2) (interpreted to be Russia and her neighboring allies; other views substitute Turkey and her neighbors in place of Russia (see Joel Richardson)
Persia (38:5) (modern-day Iran)
Ethiopia (38:5) (modern-day Ethiopia, Africa)
Put (38:5) (modern-day Libya)
Gomer (38:6) (modern-day Turkey)
Beth-togarmah (38:6) (modern-day Armenia)
“Many peoples with you” (38:6; 38:9, 15)
The identity of the nations in the above list are the subject of much discussion in prophecy circles (even Bible translators can’t agree on how to translate the opening two verses of Ezekiel 38 (compare the NIV and NAS translations)). However, one thing is certain: unless the interpreter includes America in the phrase, ”many peoples with you,” (vv 38:6, 38:15, 19), America is not on the list of specific nations to attack Israel.

For America to be included in the phrase “many peoples with you,” seems highly unlikely for the following reasons:

The list includes a superpower nation, Rosh/Russia. America is a superpower nation. Why include one superpower nation in the list and not include the other, unless it is intended that the other superpower not be included on the list? The list includes other specific nations, e.g., Iran (Persia) and Turkey (Gomer), that are not superpower nations. Why include these nations and omit America if the intent is to include specific nations that will attack Israel in the end-times? That is, America, whether superpower or not, is not listed because it will not be a part of the attacking group in the end-times.

Another view limits the phrase “many peoples with you” solely to the peoples north of “Beth-togarmah,” a nation of Asia Minor (which I have interpreted to be modern-day Armenia), because of the specific wording of the text: ”…; Beth-togarmah from the remote parts of the north with all its troops—many peoples with you.” Regardless of the identity of Beth-togarmah, America is not to its north! To read more on this view click here or see http://www.pre-trib.org/data/pdf/Ice-(Part10)Ezekiel38&39.pdf. Ezekiel 38:9 and 15 use the same phrase “many peoples with you,” but these references add the conjunction “and.” The result is to limit the meaning to those nations already named in Gog’s alliance and included in the list of 38:2-6. To read more on this view click here or see http://www.pre-trib.org/data/pdf/Ice-(Part10)Ezekiel38&39.pdf. In my view, this allows the phrase to be broadened to those groups/peoples living within the list of nations specified in 38:2-6, but considered separate from those nations. For example, al-Qaeda, HAMAS, Hezbollah, the Muslim Brotherhood are all groups separate from the nations that they reside in. Yet, they would be included in “many peoples with you” under this interpretation. Of course, America would not be included within this interpretation either.

Another view is to include America in “many peoples” based on passages such as Zacharia 12:2-3 which states, ”It will come about in that day that I will make Jerusalem a heavy stone for all the peoples; all who lift it will be severely injured. And all the nations of the earth will be gathered against it.” (Emphasis added) This view asks: How can America not be included in Ezekiel 38:6 (as a nation attacking Israel) if Zacharia 12:3 is to be properly interpreted? I propose the answer is in the meaning of “gathering against” Israel. To find that answer, however, we need look at another verse in Ezekiel 38/39.
In Ezekiel 38:10, God reveals that Gog’s will plan an evil plan against Israel. God then quotes Gog to say, ”… I [Gog] will go up against the land of unwalled villages [Israel] … to capture spoil and to seize plunder, to turn [my] hand against the waste places which are now inhabited … against the people who are gathered from the nations who have acquired cattle and goods, who live at the center of the world [Jerusalem]“ (Ezekiel 38:11-12). Surprisingly, three nations/groups respond to Gog that have not appeared earlier in the text; i.e., they were not included in the list of attacking nations in vv 38:2-6. They respond to Gog by making a statement in the form of a question. They state: “… ’Have you come to capture spoil? Have you assembled your company to seize plunder, to carry away silver and gold, to take away cattle and goods, to capture great spoil?’ “ (vv 38:13). The nations are: “Sheba, and Dedan, and the merchants of Tarshish, with all its villages” (38:13).

Sheba and Dedan can be identified as Yemen and Oman, respectively, nations located in the southern-most tip of Saudi Arabia (H. W. F. Gesenius, Gesenius’ Hebrew-Chaldee Lexicon to the Old, p 800). Tarshish is described by Ezekiel 27:12 in this way: “Tarshish was your customer because of the abundance of all kinds of wealth; with silver, iron, tin and lead they paid for your wares.” Tarshish is also known for its great ships as can be seen in 1 Kings 10:21-22, “All King Solomon’s drinking vessels of gold, and all the vessels of the house of the forest of Lebanon were of pure gold. None was of silver; … For the king had at sea the ships of Tarshish with the ships of Hiram; once every three years the ships of Tarshish came bringing gold and silver, ivory and apes and peacocks.” Thus, in both of these passages, Tarshish is a nation of great wealth; and, in the latter passage, Tarshish is also a nation having great resources, sufficient in fact, to sail the length of the Mediterranean Sea from its most western edge (Tarshish, Spain) to its most eastern edge, the coast of Israel on a recurring schedule.

If we were looking for a metaphor to identify a future, prosperous nation in the end-times, a nation not even in existence at the time the prophecy was written, what might that metaphor look like? I propose that the phrase “the merchants of Tarshish …” would fit rather nicely to identify America. In fact, some interpreters of Bible prophecy have offered this view (see http://www.pre-trib.org/data/pdf/Ice-Is ... eProph.pdf. Dr. Thomas Ice puts it this way: ”It is argued that “the merchants of Tarshish, with all its villages,” refers to the colonies of Western Europe and the nations that have subsequently arisen from them. This would include North America and the United States.” Another interpreter, Dr. W.S. McBurnie adds the following (read more or see http://www.pre-trib.org/data/pdf/Ice-Is ... eProph.pdf):

The “Merchants of Tarshish” were definitely colonizers. This is the plain and logical meaning of the phrase Ezekiel used. After all, what else could he say if the mysterious vision was for a future time? He must perforce have used the terms and names of his own day. He probably did not understand the full implication of what he wrote. But he surely would say that, long after his time, a new confederacy of power would arise from the Western Atlantic nations, whose armies, riches and power might also provide the means of a future role in the reservation of Israel.”

The point is that America is in v 38:13, not v 38:6. If America is included in v 38:13 rather than v 38:6, how does it impact our earlier conclusion that America does not join in an attack against Israel? It changes it drastically! ”Sheba, Dedan, and Tarshish with all its villages” do not join the conflict opposing Gog and his forces. Look at the text: they do not join the conflict nor do they offer any military support to stop the attack. They do not strategize how to stop Gog and his forces, nor do they interact with Israel in any way to assist in forestalling an attack. All that Sheba, Dedan, and Tarshish do is talk about what Gog might do. In fact, they repeat the statement Gog just made and ask him a question with that same statement. They state, “So, you say you are going to “capture spoil? … assemble your army to seize plunder? …” Their response to Gog is almost without sense because it repeats almost verbatim what Gog has just stated; the interpreter can only scratch his head, and ask, ”Did they really say that?”

How do we interpret Ezekiel 38:13? America is in Ezekiel 38/39, but not because they join forces with Gog and his alliance. America is standing on the sidelines talking about it with “Sheba, Dedan, and … its many villages.” It is as if America will talk about it until it is too late. America, the superpower, “gathers against” (Zachariah 12:2-3) Israel by not doing anything to stop Gog, the superpower — all the while declaring publicly she supports Israel.

Based on Ezekiel 38:13, I have difficulty understanding how interpreters can conclude that America will stand by Israel’s side in the end-times! One very respected scholar, the late David Allen Lewis, puts it this way:

So the young lions of Tarshish would definitely refer to the North American colonies as well as the European colonies, and hence bring the U. S. into this prophecy as one of the nations that will strongly protest the Russian invasion of Israel in the last days. (Emphasis mine). (Quote from http://www.pre-trib.org/data/pdf/Ice-Is ... eProph.pdf, and noted there as, David Allen Lewis, Prophecy 2000 (Green Forest, AR.: New Leaf Press, 1990), p. 103).

To me, this is even more difficult to understand considering the remainder of Ezekiel 38 which prophesies exactly how Gog’s destruction will occur:

Ezekiel 38:18-23 (NASB) “It will come about on that day, when Gog comes against the land of Israel,” declares the Lord GOD, “that My fury will mount up in My anger. “In My zeal and in My blazing wrath I declare that on that day there will surely be a great earthquake in the land of Israel. … “I will call for a sword against him on all My mountains,” declares the Lord GOD. “Every man’s sword will be against his brother. “With pestilence and with blood I will enter into judgment with him; and I will rain on him and on his troops, and on the many peoples who are with him, a torrential rain, with hailstones, fire and brimstone. “I will magnify Myself, sanctify Myself, and make Myself known in the sight of many nations; and they will know that I am the LORD.”‘ (Emphasis supplied).

Do you see America in the above judgment? I don’t – I just see God! Not even Obama’s and his swagger is sufficient to move the earth!

One more point: Isn’t it interesting that “Tarshish with all its villages” are identified as “merchants” (38:13); and their almost verbatim reply to Gog’s for attacking Israel only mentions the financial motivations for Gog’s attack? The reply of “Sheba, Dedan, and the merchants of Tarshish” omits the portion of Gog’s statement dealing with “people,” but includes the portion dealing with commerce or goods. Here is the omitted section of v 38:12 (outlined in red) not included in v 38:13:

to capture spoil and to seize plunder, to turn your hand against the waste places which are now inhabited, and against the people who are gathered from the nations, who have acquired cattle and goods, who live at the center of the world.’

I may be stretching it a little, but it seems to me that the reply in v 38:13 serves to minimize Gog’s statement in v 38:12 because it removes the cost of lives and only focuses on the cost of goods and services, silver and gold. I can’t help but see the half-truth of politics that fills our airways so frequently. I propose that what we are seeing in Ezekiel 38:13 is an ancient depiction of modern-day diplomacy, a little “double-speak” if you will! Anybody heard anything like that lately?

Here is a quote from an article published on May 21, 2009 by Con Coughlin of The Telegraph.Co.UK who quotes Obama on Iran (read more or see: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/colu ... -bomb.html):

Barack Obama is giving Iran the time it needs to build a nuclear bomb. (Con Coughlin). The President’s approach ignores the urgent threat of the regime’s weapons programme, says Con Coughlin. Has President Obama inadvertently given Iran the green light to develop an atom bomb? I only ask because it appears to be the logical conclusion to be drawn from his announcement this week that he is giving Iran until the end of the year to decide whether or not to co-operate with the West over its controversial nuclear programme. … Under pressure from a visiting Benjamin Netanyahu, the Israeli prime minister, to explain the latest White House position on Iran, a relaxed Mr Obama remarked: “We should have a fairly good sense by the end of the year [2009] as to whether [the Iranians] are moving in the right direction.” (Emphasis supplied).

Well, that was three years ago and many economic sanctions later, and Obama is still waiting to see if “the Iranians are moving in the right direction. ” Here is one of Obama’s latest statements (3/2/2012); be sure to notice the last paragraph where Obama is putting a different “spin” on why we should or should not use a military option against Iran:

Obama To Iran And Israel: ‘I Don’t Bluff.’ I think that the Israeli government recognizes that, as president of the United States, I don’t bluff,” he said in the interview. “I also don’t, as a matter of sound policy, go around advertising exactly what our intentions are. But (both) governments recognize that when the United States says it is unacceptable for Iran to have a nuclear weapon, we mean what we say.”

Obama also warned that a premature strike might inadvertently help Iran: “At a time when there is not a lot of sympathy for Iran and its only real ally (Syria) is on the ropes, do we want a distraction in which suddenly Iran can portray itself as a victim?” (Emphasis supplied) Read more or see http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/0 ... 16093.html

I can see why Iran and the world thinks Obama, America’s Commander-in-Chief is bluffing! In the meantime, Iran is working on nukes — and, Russia is its off-book superpower ally; and, the end-time conflict prophesied by Ezekiel 38/39 is fast approaching, one day at a time. If America is anywhere in end-times prophecy the most likely place is Ezekiel 38:13. America stands and does nothing, along with “all its villages.” Oh, by the way, if you’re wondering who the text is referring to in ”villages,” I can offer an option for you: the United Nations. The United Nations presently has 193 member states, many of whom qualify as “America’s colonies.”

Who will be elected, Obama or Romney? Obama of course; that is, if my interpretation of Ezekiel 38:13 is correct. If America is on the sidelines talking about Gog-Iran with its allies, then Romney is not at the helm, Obama is.

What a difficult time to be a student of Bible prophecy! I hope I am wrong.

[drdos]

I just disagree with his and many others view that America will play no role. I believe we will see an America at the forefront of running the beast engine. Look who is at the forefront of supporting the Islamic spring. Just have to disagree here.

[good4u1]

Okay. You can disagree, drdos. We have not entered the last of this age yet so there is still lots of room for many POV. Until actual events unfold to verify in Scripture it is up for debate. But for me, Jack Smith (a pen name, btw) makes a very compelling case as what could transpire during the End. His free ebook was riveting and his updated published book I'm sure is even more persuasive as I read a book review from a Christian book reviewer and he mentioned things I did not remember in his free ebook. For example, he considers the Dome of the Rock the prophesied "abomination that causes desolation" mentioned by the LORD Jesus and the prophets esp. Daniel. That is something I had not considered before and apparently was updated in the published work. It has many 5 stars from the readers.

[Tevye]

Will the US stand with... Israel during the Great Tribulation?

...well, we can believe that, at the least, two very powerful parts of her will...

"When the dragon saw that he had been hurled to the earth, he pursued the woman
who had given birth to the male child. The woman was given the two wings of a great eagle,
so that she might fly to the place prepared for her in the desert, where she would be taken care of
for a time, times and half a time, out of the serpent’s reach." - Revelation chapter 12

[good4u1]

That is just ONE of many interpretations, Tevye, about eagle's wings. None of us know who will be President during the time of the End and what will be our policy toward Israel. I hope and pray to God we, as a nation, are not as morally weak as Jack Smith postulates in this article, but the trend seems to be in that direction.

[drdos]

That is just ONE of many interpretations, Tevye, about eagle's wings. None of us know who will be President during the time of the End and what will be our policy toward Israel. I hope and pray to God we, as a nation, are not as morally weak as Jack Smith postulates in this article, but the trend seems to be in that direction.

Remains to be seen, but your right the trend toward moral depravity will continue. Scripture points to that. America is the most morally bankrupt financially Rich nation in history. Our idols are made of plastic and metal fashioned in China. We are the Most materialistic nation the world has ever seen. Just look at the pre-Christmas vids on Youtube how people kill each-other for pieces of plastic. We are Morally weak already. I don't think there is even a question as to that point. As far as our policy toward Israel it is one of support overtly and back stabbing covertly.

[James1:12]

The Absurdity Continues: Fed Buys 30 Year Bonds Two Hours Before Treasury Sells 30 Year Bonds
Submitted by Tyler Durden on 06/14/2012 11:04 -0400

Yesterday we noted the supreme absurdity of having the Fed buy 10 year Bonds two hours before the Treasury sold 10 year bonds (which obviously priced at terrific terms as there was a $4 billion hole created courtesy of the Fed if only for 2 hours). Today, the lunacy continues. The Fed has just bought $2 billion in 30 year bonds just two hours before the Treasury sells $13 billion in 30 year paper. The ponzi has become so glaring they don't even care to hide it any longer.

A reason perhaps that the USA wont be on the right side of this.

[Exit40]

After satan can't get to 'the woman, Israel' he goes after Christians. There are currently about 2 billion of us world wide, so that seems to be a very big conflict. I wouldn't be surprised if the US pays the jizya tax ( on oil ) but that tax is supposed to be abolished by the mahdi eventually, and the world's nation must convert to islam if they want any of theirs. Doubtful the citizens of the US as a whole convert, so at first our conflict will be internal, before we summon the righteous anger needed to go after the AC and his forces in the ME. It seems to me though, we won't get there in time, as Our Lord finishes the fight for us, and only He will be exalted ' in that day '.

As for Rosh being Russia, it's time to put an end to this mistake in interpretation in Eze 38:2-3 and 39:1.

ro'sh
Part of Speech
masculine noun
Root Word (Etymology)
From an unused root apparently meaning to shake

Outline of Biblical Usage
1) head, top, summit, upper part, chief, total, sum, height, front, beginning
a) head (of man, animals)
b) top, tip (of mountain)
c) height (of stars)
d) chief, head (of man, city, nation, place, family, priest)
e) head, front, beginning
f) chief, choicest, best
g) head, division, company, band
h) sum

Rosh means in this case, chief, or head, and in these passages the next word is prince. So gog is the chief prince of the land of Magog, and Meshech and Tubal. Poor etymology has resulted in this incorrect interpretation and carried to it's extreme it becomes Russia is the leader of the invading muslim hordes. Not only is this very unlikely, Russia has many modern problems, one of which is their military as a whole is somewhat dilapidated. I doubt the bulk of it could make the trip to Israel, and I doubt the muslims would let them cross their dar al islam, muslim lands, as they are infidel and would be especially so at the time of Ezekiels' Prophecy. Russia is not a super power excluding their nukes, Turkeys military is larger and more modern. Plus, oil prices are likely a tool of the AC so Russia would be more than happy to go along with price increases, to their own benefit. Russia makes no sense as a part of an islamic gog/magog, that is who they are, and their current support of Iran and Syria is weapons and tech support, plus some other enterprises revolving around trade. Yeah OK, draw a line due north from Israel and it goes through Moscow, but first it goes through the heartland of Anatolia in Turkey, the land of Magog, Mechech, and Tubal, all muslim today. Russia has oil and gas, Israel has discovered oil and gas off their coast and is working with Cyprus, unrecognized by Turkey, and so this could be the hook in Turkeys jaw. There, problem solved ? Not really, I'm sure there are many opinions on this.

One thing for sure, Israel will be outnumbered so badly only Our Lord will be able to save them. And He does so.

God Bless

David

[Tevye]

What will be should be viewed in light of scripture
instead of scripture being viewed in light of what is
(out there in the world) at the moment.

Yes there are many interpretations of prophecy
and what will be is yet to be seen. Things do change.
What seems to be a state of utter darkness right now
could change overnight, and a remnant (if only the remaining two wings)
could be what is left for God to use, when the appointed time has come.
An offering in a sense, from a church that is in the midst of Great Tribulation.
The fundamental existence of 'a portion' of the bride of Christ ...to be there
as the offspring of the woman Israel, for the olive tree she is grafted into
during the time of her greatest distress.... her greatest tribulation.

There is only one way, one truth, and one life...
and His Spirit will lead us into all truth.

"when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth.
He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears,

and he will tell you what is yet to come.

He will bring glory to me by taking from
what is mine and making it known to you."
- Yeshua - The Gospel of John chapter 16

[drdos]

"There was a guy drowing in the ocean. He prayed to God to save him.
A few minutes later a boat came and offered to pick him up and take him to shore. The drowning man refuesed and the boat left.
Another boat came and offered to save the man and he said no, and the boat left.
Finally a third boat came and said I can help you. Once again the drowing man said no.
When he died he said to God: I trusted you. Why didn't you save me??
God said: I sent you 3 boats"!!!!!!!!!!

All this to say I think we are missing what is right in front of us.

[Tevye]

That reminds me of a story...

The Mountain Climber
-- Author Unknown

They tell the story of a mountain climber who, desperate to conquer the Aconcagua, initiated his climb after years
of preparation. But he wanted the glory to himself, therefore, he went up alone. He started climbing and it was
becoming later, and later. He did not prepare for camping, but decided to keep on going.

Soon it got dark. Night fell with heaviness at a very high altitude. Visibility was zero. Everything was black.
There was no moon, and the stars were covered by clouds.

As he was climbing a ridge at about 100 meters from the top, he slipped and fell. Falling rapidly he could only see
blotches of darkness that passed. He felt a terrible sensation of being sucked in by gravity. He kept falling... and
in those anguishing moments good and bad memories passed through his mind. He thought certainly he would die.

But then he felt a jolt that almost tore him in half. Yes! Like any good mountain climber he had staked himself
with a long rope tied to his waist. In those moments of stillness, suspended in the air he had no other choice
but to shout: "HELP ME GOD. HELP ME!"

All of a sudden he heard a deep voice from heaven... "What do you want me to do?"

"SAVE ME."

"Do you REALLY think that I can save you?"

"OF COURSE, MY GOD."

"Then cut the rope that is holding you up."

There was another moment of silence and stillness. The man just held tighter to the rope.
The rescue team says that the next day they found a frozen mountain climber hanging strongly to a rope...
TWO FEET OFF THE GROUND.
faithstories/TheMountainClimber

[drdos]

(Psa 46:10) Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.
This doesn't mean that God wants us to do nothing, but it does mean He wants us to trust Him in difficult times, and have faith that He will see us through.

[Tevye]

(Psa 46:10) Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.
This doesn't mean that God wants us to do nothing, but it does mean He wants us to trust Him in difficult times, and have faith that He will see us through.

"Trust" (in the Lord with all of your heart) - (((videolink)))

[good4u1]

Good4u1 note: This was posted on 5/18/2012 on Jack Smith's Blog entitled, "America Abandoning Israel for Iran?" I posted this as an addendum to the original post on this thread as it is the book end to this article....however, I do want to caution you as it occurred to me that this could very well be propaganda on the part of the Iranian Leadership...so let the reader be aware...

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A recent editorial appeared in one of Iran’s news outlets, the Keyhan News (the paper is reported to be directly under the supervision of Iran’s supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei), which should be of interest to Bible prophecy students.

The editorial reported that over the last few months the United States has changed its current policy towards Iran’s nuclear program, and in the process, has abandoned Israel and its own hard-line nuclear policy towards Iran. The article states,

The editorial, written by Sadollah Zarei, a columnist for the hard-line paper, said that within the last three months, Israeli officials, after reports that America is on the verge of accepting the Iranian nuclear program, have made several trips to Washington, where on one trip they met for 10 days with U.S. officials to try to change President Obama’s decision to accept Iran’s nuclear program. They were unsuccessful…The answer, the editorial said, is that “in the last year, two important events have taken place. One has been the Islamic Awakening (the Arab Spring) in the region, which is based on the ideology of the Islamic Republic of Iran and has the West quite worried and concerned; the other is the events in Egypt, which, despite all the analysis by the West, have turned into an Islamic movement with Sharia laws. These two events have forced the West to rethink its approach toward Iran.” (Read more here)

The import of the reputed policy change would be to “allow Iran to enrich uranium to the 5 percent level for peaceful purposes.” The problem, however, is determining whether or not Iran’s enrichment is truly being limited to “5 percent levels for peaceful purposes.” Israel, of course, is against enrichment at any level, a policy that America is reputed to be abandoning. The effect of this policy change, should it be true, is that Israel is left standing alone against Iran, assuming no other Arab nations of the Middle East join her. In a recent post, entitled, “Will the United States Stand with Israel or the Antichrist in the End-Times?”, I suggested that Bible prophecy (Ezekiel 38:10-13) can be interpreted to predict Western nations “talking, talking,” while Israel is attacked by the Russia-Iran-Turkey alliance of Ezekiel 38. The editorial’s insistence that America has recently weakened her stance towards Iran and abandoned Israel in the process is a step in this direction.

The problem for the American public (and the world) is that there is no real way that we can know what is happening behind the closed doors of diplomacy, whether or not the politicians and diplomats are Israeli, American, or Iranian. If America does weaken its policy against Iran thereby allowing it to enrich uranium sufficient for nuclear weapons, we will only know it after the fact. One morning, we will awake to the news of smoke billowing into the skies of the Middle East as Israel has either taken matters into its own hands and attacked Iran, or Iran has done so. The question for me, however, is this: if Iran does launch nuclear weapons, which country is most likely to be the first target of its attack, given the fact that Israel’s annihilation is its ultimate goal?

The answer to this question leads me to the second point of the editorial that is equally important to prophecy students. The editorial makes a passing comment that the only factor remaining that keeps Iran from annihilating Israel is the lone United States ally in the region, Saudi Arabia. I quote:

With diminishing support for Israel and with the (upcoming) collapse of the monarchy in Saudi Arabia,” Zarei claims, “there won’t be any obstacles left facing Iran with its policy of annihilation of Israel.”

Some readers may be aware of Saudi Arabia’s recent efforts to form a “union” of Arab states to increase the stability and security of the Arab states in the Peninsula. This “union” would include the six Arab states making up the Gulf Coordinating Council (GCC), along with closer political and military ties over Bahrain. The hoped for Arab union would benefit the Saudis because it would allow ”closer political ties [among] the GCC, [and] would work together to preserve their ruling dynasties against internal challenge and Iranian ambition” (Read more). Saudi Arabia’s efforts to instigate a closer Arab union reveals the level of anxiety among the Saudis. After all, Arab Spring has not been ”friendly” to Middle East monarchies. It led to the ouster of President Mubarak followed by the election of the Muslim Brotherhood, the controlling party within the Egyptian parliament, and a group threatening to eliminate the long-time Egypt-Saudi relationship present under Mubarak.

To the Iranians, Saudi Arabia is very close to the only obstacle remaining for the annihilation of Israel. To the student of prophecy this sounds like one more step in the fulfillment of a significant end-time prophecy:

Zechariah 14:1-2 (NASB) 1 Behold, a day is coming for the LORD when the spoil taken from you will be divided among you. 2 For I will gather all the nations against Jerusalem to battle, and the city will be captured, the houses plundered, the women ravished and half of the city exiled, but the rest of the people will not be cut off from the city.

For those of you who have read my book, Islam – the Cloak of Antichrist, you will remember that my view of Daniel 2,7, and Revelation 17-18, interprets that the Antichrist will “rise up” from Shi’a Islam, i.e., Iran (Daniel 2:40-42; 7:8), to initiate an end-times conflict that will first annihilate Saudi Arabia, the birthplace of Islam (whom I interpret to be ”mystical,” “Babylon the Great,” Revelation 17:4-6). This initial conflict of Muslim against Muslim is prophesied by Revelation 17:12-13, 17, and will be followed by the destruction of two other Muslim nations/countries (all neighbors of Israel, see Ezekiel 38, not specifically listed in the Russia-Iran-Turkey alliance against Israel; and, Daniel 7:24). Lastly, it leads to the ultimate ”treading under foot” of Jerusalem for 42 months based on Ezekiel 38, Zacharia 14:3, and Revelation 11:2, and the Great Tribulation.

Perhaps you might be thinking: “But how can we know how these things will unfold? And what are we to do about them anyway?” Jesus put it this way:

Luke 21:34-36 (NASB) 34 “Be on guard, so that your hearts will not be weighted down with dissipation and drunkenness and the worries of life, and that day will not come on you suddenly like a trap; 35 for it will come upon all those who dwell on the face of all the earth. 36 “But keep on the alert at all times, praying that you may have strength to escape all these things that are about to take place, and to stand before the Son of Man.”

[kirthril]

Short answer to topic question is NO. When the bible says the AC will have power over ALL nations, peoples, languages, tribes that includes the USA. I think the question should be: "will we as Americans resist initially?" <--- my answer, yes.

However i do believe elements of our society working underground (after america as we know it is gone) will help Israel even with the AC prancing about.

[T-Minus?]

I tend to agree with Kirthril that the short answer is NO. Assuming we do indeed enter the death rattle of end of days in the near future our country will have one of two presidents. One is Obama so we already know by past actions where his sentiments lie. The other is most likely Romney. Since he is in fairly high standing in the Mormon fakechurch, his allegience should also be questioned. After all, they believe that God is going to establish Jerusalem in Independance Missouri so why would he want to go against the fakechurch teaching? I don't trust him either to do the right thing. Another couple of miscellaneous tidbits.....An Eagle is an unclean bird. That would qualify us as well as a few other countries bearing the Eagle emblam. Also regarding Russia=Rosh, rosh does indeed mean leader or head. They could be involved as a suppliesr of military hardware,strategy and planning, though the recent revelation that they are sending warships and marines into Syria is disconcerting. They do have a vested interest in controlling in some capacity the energy output of the ME. Israels' recent finds puts that goal a bit further out. Time will tell. Maranatha!!

[Sword of Geddon]

The question might not have to be asked because the Antichrist will not be Islamic, nor will he(at first) have a problem with Israel.

Islam is of the King of the South, not the King of the North who will be called Antichrist.

[drdos]

The question might not have to be asked because the Antichrist will not be Islamic, nor will he(at first) have a problem with Israel.

Islam is of the King of the South, not the King of the North who will be called Antichrist.

I Agree. The AC only servers himself and his master satan. How could he be Islamic? Yes he uses muslims for his own gain as a tool to persecute Christians, but he will submit to no one cept himself and satan.

[Exit40]

Islam is of the King of the South, not the King of the North who will be called Antichrist.

Scriptural evidence please ?

God Bless You

David

[kirthril]

Islam is of the King of the South, not the King of the North who will be called Antichrist.

Scriptural evidence please ?

God Bless You

David

I believe some passages indicate the AC will conquer much of the middle east. I believe Daniel says it best. He will conquer all the way down to Egypt (maybe even includes northern Arabia), as he moves he will conquer the holy land, "reports from the east and north will alarm him", He will then turn his attention East and north and storm off in rage to annihilate many (east and north of Egypt is more Muslim held lands)

If the AC is Muslim, the moment he declares himself god over all gods, the muslims may revolt against him seeing as how no one man can be above allah. This may be what leads him to conquer egypt and the rest of the middle east. Or he could be allied with Islam, in which case the same thing would happen the moment he declares himself god. East and north of the holy lands is Syria, Iraq, Iran and all the "Stan" countries. All muslim.

So be it he is a muslim (KotN) or a non-muslim (KotN), he clearly conquers them after the AoD when he sets his tents up in the holy land.

[Sword of Geddon]

According to both Daniel and Revelation there are three main power blocks in the tribulation:

-1. The South(Including Egypt and other Muslim states)

-2. The East(Which includes Russia and China as well as other asian powers)

and

-3. The North(Which is the beast kingdom led by the A/C

Despite the Antichrist having the power to make all non-believers(or upcoming believers) take the mark, the Kings of the East and the King of the South(meaning an Islamic Caliphate most likely) will hate and be enemies with the A/C.

In fact if you read the passage depicting the battle of Armageddon, the Antichrist as well as the Southern and Eastern powers converge at Israel(at Meggido) to make war with each other. Shortly after this Christ returns and defeats them all after they actually attempt at using weaponry on the king of Kings and his angels.

This is the geo-political aspect of things.

As for the identity of the Beast Kingdom, look to the term which describes the Antichrist, "King of the North". What military power exists now which has to do with "the north". NATO. Whoever the A/C will be, he will be from the region controled by the North. This will probably be a Western European/North American state.

The A/C is not a muslim. It states in scripture that his(The Antichrist's) father and forefathers had a faith, and that he does not follow that faith, but rather "serves a strange god, a god of forces" it goes on to say the A/C honors his god with monuments and other forms of worship wherever he goes.

To complicate matters it finishes describing the faith of the A/C by saying he also exalts himself above all that is worshiped and is called god, even Jehovah himself.

[Sword of Geddon]

PART 2:

On where the A/C gets his power and authority:

THe A/C's beast empire is the same beast which rises from the bottomless pit, this beast is called "Abaddon" or "Apollyon", and is identified as the leader of all the demons confined to the abyss. Why were these demons confined?

“For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast [them] down to hell, and delivered [them] into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth [person], a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly; And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned [them] with an overthrow, making [them] an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly” 2 Pet 2:4-6

“And angels who did not keep their own domain, but abandoned their proper abode, He has kept in eternal bonds under darkness for the judgment of the great day. Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.” Jude 1:6-7

Another words Apollyon is the leader of the very same angels which sinned by having relations with human women, producing the nephilim. This is spirit, which could have ****** all of humanity, will be a part of the Antichrist or the antichrist himself.

Scripture also makes clear that the dragon(satan) is in charge over the entire unholy hierarchy.

Anotherwords the AC will not be Islamic, but rather will promote the only true faith our enemy has: Worship of themselves.

[Sword of Geddon]

PART 2:

On where the A/C gets his power and authority:

THe A/C's beast empire is the same beast which rises from the bottomless pit, this beast is called "Abaddon" or "Apollyon", and is identified as the leader of all the demons confined to the abyss. Why were these demons confined?

“For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast [them] down to hell, and delivered [them] into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth [person], a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly; And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned [them] with an overthrow, making [them] an example unto those that after should live ungodly” 2 Pet 2:4-6

“And angels who did not keep their own domain, but abandoned their proper abode, He has kept in eternal bonds under darkness for the judgment of the great day. Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.” Jude 1:6-7

Another words Apollyon is the leader of the very same angels which sinned by having relations with human women, producing the nephilim. This is spirit, which could have ****** all of humanity, will be a part of the Antichrist or the antichrist himself.

Scripture also makes clear that the dragon(satan) is in charge over the entire unholy hierarchy.

Anotherwords the AC will not be Islamic, but rather will promote the only true faith our enemy has: Worship of themselves.

[drdos]

The question might not have to be asked because the Antichrist will not be Islamic, nor will he(at first) have a problem with Israel.

Islam is of the King of the South, not the King of the North who will be called Antichrist.

Obama is behind the Muslim Brotherhood which toppled the Mubarak regime in Egypt. I see Obama as the Northern King who is behind this army of the Muslim Brotherhood that is radicalizing the MidEast. Is Obama a Muslim who practices Islam? NO. He is something else. He only serves himself. His life living as a muslim (In Indonesia)only helped him connect with Radical muslims for this point in time. I agree the AC will not be Muslim or serve Islam.

[Exit40]

He was a kid in Indonesia. It's his time in Pakistan traveling on a foreign passport, US citizens were not allowed to go there at the time, that concerns me, as he left named Barry Sotoreo, and returned as Barrack Obama.

God Bless

David

[Sword of Geddon]

-Muslims do not vow to spread homosexual tolerance across the world as he has done. You would think if Obama is a Muslim that he would be sensitive to the Islamic cultural sensitivities of countries such as Iraq or Pakistan. Under his watch his underlings have had gay sex orgies in the US embassies in both countries, disgusting millions of muslims, and prompting the leaders of Pakistan to call the Obama administration's actions "cultural terrorism", a charge to which Obama has completely ignored.

-Muslims do not declare themselves god as Obama has in the past

-Muslims would not work under a man who basiclly worshiped satan, as Obama did in chicago.

Even the "Stealth Jihad" doctrine of Islam argument can only logically go so far.

Obama is not Muslim, Christian or anything of the sort. He is a self-worshipping man who sees himself as a god.

I think Obama should be watched as a possible Antichrist very closely..at least until it is proven(if he isn't the one) otherwise.

If Obama is the A/C as it stands now his goals may overlap with radical islam at times(they share an enemy in the United States), but in Obama's own words: Make no mistake that Obama's ultimate goals are fundamentally at odds with Islam.

Obama desires a one-world government. He embraces those who wish for agenda 21(such as Science Czar Holdren and Cass Sunstein) and things such as the AOC(Allaince of Civlizations). The Georgia Guidestones monument erected over twenty years ago is ultimately in Obama's agenda as well, it shows given his intense, extreme support(even for a left-wing democrat) of Abortion.

Remember Obama's cryptic own words: "You will know me by who I surround myself with".